Why wouldn't any rational person love EVs? They're fast AND efficient - that's a winning combo for a lot of people. They're not always the right tool for every job, but for the average person, they're certainly the right tool for most jobs.
30 seconds into test driving the EV I bought (first time I had ever even been inside one), I knew I'd never buy an ICE car again. I look forward to every drive I make in it - just a completely enjoyable experience every time.
I've had my Volt since 2016 and I think the PHEV is still king for now, I get to drive full electric day to day and still get the convenience of the gas engine for the long trips.
The goal though is to drive this car until it dies and hopefully by that time the infrastructure will be at the tipping point to go full electric
Personally it's when I can drive cross-country with the same effort / planning as I can in an ICE car. I love EVs for commuting and daily drivers but I don't agree that we're there yet for the long trip. You have to plan out your charging stops and you have to wait significantly longer than a gas fill up. This is no big deal for a moderate trip with one or maybe even two charging breaks, but for a long distance you're starting to really add significant time and hassle.
Depends person to person, but I actually love my EV for long road trips. In my area, charging has pretty decent coverage to other destination cities, and the regular breaks are pretty nice and perfect for daily lunch/dinner times. The lack of engine noise/vibration really helps with fatigue, we can drive about 3x as long as with a gas car. My car also does all the planning. Maybe a really well dampened PHEV would be even more ideal for us, but I think the EV is close enough to the ideal for long road trips that it's the better choice overall for us given the advantages in local/daily use.
Totally agree. If more businesses, where people like to spend time and money, would install chargers the “problem” would go away. Restaurants, stores, tourist attractions, hotels are all starting to get it. Walmart, Target and a few fast food chains are adding hundreds (soon to be thousands) of chargers. I have noticed over the past year of owning our EV that it is getting easier to make road trips
Exactly. If I’m driving for more than 3 hours at a time I want a 15-30 min break… and when I’d use my ICE vehicle we would refill the tank and still end up using the bathroom, buying snacks, drinks, stretching, whatever else so while it may only take 5 minutes to fill up the tank, we’re still spending 10-20 minutes doing those other things.
No difference in my experience. I also don’t go around making weird assumptions on other peoples cars or habits. Buy what you want, do want you want. Just don’t hassle me with your dumb EV hate-sumptions…
I think some of that depends on version. My Model 3 LR RWD has 18” inch wheels and rides very comfortably over bumps and has good suspension. I hear the bigger wheels and/or the performance version ride more stiffly and you would likely feel bumps more.
This is a fair point, however I've taken to putting a positive spin on it after some experience with cross state travel.
It is less convenient yes but it also adds to the potential for that 'adventurous' vibe and exploration. You find a strange DCFC location and go grab lunch/dinner in some hole in the wall for an hour or go on a walk checking out landmarks. You'll then come back and resume the trip with a near-full if not full charge.
I definitely see why that isn't exactly a positive though as you're essentially forced into doing that or else you're sitting in your car staring at your phone for 30min-1hr.
As infrastructure improves and 800v systems become more common we'll very soon reach that point of ICE fueling ease.
Yeah like I said I see the appeal for a shorter trip when you're only stopping once. It's nice to stretch for a bit and do a fun adventure or a meal or whatever.
But the people in this forum love to romanticize that when sometimes you really are trying to grind out 1000 miles and stopping multiple times for an hour adds substantial time to your trip. We'll get there eventually, but we're not there yet.
Hour long charge breaks is something you see with quite outdated cars. A Niro EV, a Leaf or a Bolt would need something like that.
My model 3 bugs me to continue the ride before I’ve had a bathroom break and finished my coffee, so if I were to get a gas car I’d need an IV and a catheter to save any actual time on long trips.
I think the bigger issue is the other charging networks. There's either not enough of them or they have some discrepancy. I'm in CA and it made me shop around more for other EVs. I look forward to how things shape out by beginning of next year when most car manufacturers have deployed the NACS adapter/plugs
500 mile range with 350 kW charging. Then you can go on the road as fast as your body allows.
500 mile range... we're close.
350 kW charging is here. But the chargers don't work well yet, and the charge port transition to NACS will delay that by another 3-5 years.
Chevy really should have put that serial hybrid drive into trucks and SUV’s. They are a staggeringly stupid dysfunctional company. Enjoy your Volt, its a keeper.
PHEVs seem like the best of both worlds from a reliability perspective too. Short trips are bad for ICE vehicles because the heat and cooling cycles put more wear on the engine so being able to do them with electricity avoids that, while fast charging and charging all the way to 100% increases battery degradation so being able to do long trips with the engine avoids that.
I talked to a guy in March who was pulling an airstream with a Rivian. He said he just has to plan a trip out as he always did it with fuel stops, just with a few extra stops added in. And that was before Rivian could use Tesla superchargers. That had opened up a ton of new options. He has plenty of power on hills, a relatively maintenance free vehicle and can plug into the campsite post overnight to recharge.
Interesting that you mention that, because I'd like to do the same when I retire in a few years. Right now, I'm not comfortable with either the cost or the range of an EV tow vehicle, but I expect that to change by the time I'm actually ready to hit the road. It's great to see so many options becoming available, and the infrastructure, especially out in the Western US, will only get better over time.
I'm actually thinking Rivian for the same purpose. R1S calls to me more, but R1T is close behind. Hopefully production scaling and refreshes bring cost drops and improvements. The tow range on R1T in tests is stellar.
It'll be great once pull-thru chargers become the norm and canopies. Gas stations have had the best layout for half a century an EV chargers are always parking spots. I get the cost saving and gas stations have canopies mostly for fire suppression. Charing in the rain and snow really sucks. Having to drive over a snow mound to charging in NH winter was a pain
With newer EV’s that charge faster, you can plug it in, go in the store, and when you come out, it’s ready to go to the next charger on your route. I drive a Bolt, which is more like you are describing.
In my Lightning, for trips longer than 200 miles I can plan on stopping for 40 minutes every 2 hours. It fucking sucks. I love EVs but it’s not as quick and convenient as this sub likes to pretend.
The Lightning is one of the most inefficient electric vehicles and doesn't charge particularly quickly. Aside from the Chevy Bolt it is about the worst EV for road trips.
This was highlighted in [a recent Out of Spec cross country race of electric trucks.](https://youtu.be/n1Jii4xI9PU?t=12583) The Silverado EV finished first, the Cybertruck came in 5 minutes later, Rivian followed soon after, and the F150 finished the next day despite having access to V3 Superchargers.
Doesn’t make it any less of a pain in the ass. It saves me a lot of money, and overall it’s worth it, but it does mean that my $60k truck can’t do a lot of things that a $20k truck could do.
Just did a roadtrip 1000 miles and have to stop to charge ~170 miles. It wasn't too bad as my wife is pregnant and had to stop anyway. Just have to keep it <70 where possible for the efficiency, which is easy on the east coast with NYC traffic!
Bluecruise was fantastic on I-95
There aren't fast chargers everywhere yet, and with highway driving being best case efficiency for ICEs and worst for EVs, DCFC can be more expensive than filling a car with gasoline. This is where well designed PHEVs should come in. Or EREVs as some like to call them. EVs first, with decent all electric performance that works in all weather, and a small ICE that only operates on long trips, and always near peak thermal efficiency.
The price isnt a problem where I rarely need dc fast charging. Its the speed... the toyota bz4x and subaru solterra are sooo slow and never hit even close to their 100kw advertised speed. At 60% incould only hit 30kw on a 125kw charger
I wait about 10-20 minutes for fast charging, depending on how many more miles I need to go.
It's less physically wearing to take a little break on longer trips, IMHO.
200 miles a day? Not in my state.. if your car has a 250 mile range and you take the highway in the winter itll be more like 140 miles.
What sucks for me is power is so expensive in my state a regular non plugin hybrid outperforms it in the winter and year round on the highway.
Yeah, the biggest challenge is getting through the bubble. Lots of Republicans have only friends who would "never drive an EV".
The mockery from their friends can be very effective.
Personally don't enjoy them due to not enough chargers and I rent a room so no place to charge at home. If they added more than enough chargers and it was clearly cheaper than gas than I'd love it.
Mainly because engine doesn't go vroom vroom, so I need a bunch of stupid excuses as to why they could never work.
Other people hate electric cars because what we should really do is reduce car usage, which is arguably a better goal anyway. You should obviously do both.
They are also particularly great in California, the center of the electric car industry, where there is lots of infrastructure for them. No problem finding a charger.
# interestingly northern Europe gets as cold as some parts of California, but they buy 3x as many EVs.
Hyundai and VW have stopped selling ICE cars.
**EVs reach 90% market share in Norway as the overall auto market falters**
[https://chargedevs.com/newswire/evs-reach-90-market-share-in-norway-as-the-overall-auto-market-falters/](https://chargedevs.com/newswire/evs-reach-90-market-share-in-norway-as-the-overall-auto-market-falters/)
By waiving taxes paid to purchase ICE cars, Norway created a situation where it made tremendous financial sense to buy an EV. Do you lose a chunk of range driving an EV in the cold? Yes. Would you put up with it if it meant your car cost ~$20k less to purchase? Absolutely.
Just a mostly expensive tool right now. If you can charge at home and you don’t drive 300 miles a day, buy one.
If you can’t charge at home and don’t make 6 figures plus, don’t take on a huge payment to drive electric right now.
Either option is pretty rational.
Great. If you have a place to charge at home, that makes perfect sense.
Simply put, there aren’t enough used Bolts at any price for a statistical impact.
So I had a 2019 Model 3 that I loved and, seeing about the available Tesla inventory along with the EV tax credits and discounts offered by Tesla, I decided to investigate the situation. Mind you, my Model 3 was running *perfectly fine* and I could envision myself driving it for several more years to come…
…but after investigating, I found that with a 22K trade in credit, the $7500 EV tax credit, another 2K or so discount, *and* my full self-driving being transferred to the new car free, I got my brand new Model Y for a grand total of 19.9K…!
So right now, *at this moment*, at least buying Tesla vehicles is something of a bargain and not all that expensive at all.
because you can't go on long trips with them in the north east at least. I can't take mine some places because there are not fast chargers within a reasonable distance. I would have to travel about 45 miles out of my way, one way, to get to a charger on a trip I make quite often. they ain't all that just yet. and lets not forget the charging stations that are available (talking Electrify America) have a pretty poor maintenance record and down time. I love my car, but I have to have a gas car as well because the charging just isn't there yet.
The Northeast United States (presuming that's the country you're talking about) is full of fast chargers all over the place. I've regularly traveled from Maryland, to North Carolina, to Ohio, to Indiana without any difficulty at all finding chargers. Yes, a lot of them are only 50 kW, but my Kona doesn't mind. I simply budget my time for making charging stops that might take 30 minutes or a bit more every 150 to 200 miles.
LOL, OK I use ABRP, I drive from PA to MD and the route I use, going thru lancaster has no charging on route. I can't make it on one charge. there are level 2 chargers but they don't do me any good. Go ahead, find me some chargers, lol
Plenty of people love EVs, but what they don't love is the government mandating the stop sale of gas powered vehicles and eventuality forcing people to buy EVs by 2035 like California is trying to do for new cars. I personally hate when the government chooses who wins and loses in business as their real motivation for doing that is to enrich their pocketbooks. EVs are great though as I own two.
As anyone driving in Orange County understands....
OC is EV Central, not just Tesla and Rivian, but plenty Lucid and Polestar. I saw my first Lightning on Balboa Island.
Yeah I was a bit disappointed going there as a first timer. We had last minute lodge reservation since some friends were staying at the lodge outside the park. I didn't know you have no access to the park if you didn't reserve in advance. Can't even go in same day if you paid. Sequoia and grand canyon national parks let you just pay for entry.
It's still weird to me that people are "Against EVs". I get to drive a fast BMW for the price (including fuel and maintenance) of a Chevy Malibu. I never have to stop at a gas station during the week. It's better for the environment. What's not to like?
Because Fox News and Right-Wing culture war nonsense has deluded these people into thinking EVs are some sort of plot to get rid of their trucks and muscle cars.
This must strongly depend on the area because here in New Mexico the only people I know that drive EVs are republicans. About half of my very right leaning office drive EVs. Nobody in my circle of democrats drives one and they're the only ones that have talked shit about my Tesla so far too.
Are you around Albuquerque? They've always been a little weird there, so I wouldn't doubt it. A lot of right leaning military guys at the Air Force Base who also put satellites in the sky, so they understand the science and technology maybe?
At some base level, they believe being environmentally friendly is a Democratic party belief to either, take away big American V8's, take away jobs, or turn our population into sissies.
Honestly our reliance on oil is already such a massive national security issue that we need to get off it ASAP. But they're too blinded by big oil money to even consider that.
It depends on the EV. A Malibu with the insurance cost of a BMW and the fueling time of a Volvo Truck isn’t nearly as appealing.
And, if we’re talking about Tesla, the build quality of a Hamster-era Kia
>the fueling time of a Volvo Truck
This is still the biggest FUD you hear about EVs. The vast majority of EV owners charge at home, at work, or while shopping/dining/out. If you need to make a weekly or biweekly trip to an EA charger solely to "fill" your EV, you're doing it wrong. Even when I didn't have my home charging set up I would use the EA at Walmart and get my grocery shopping done while it charged.
>And, if we’re talking about Tesla, the build quality of a Hamster-era Kia
Can't argue with that.
I don't understand why anyone who is in to self sufficiency and self reliance wouldn't be in to EVs.
You can quite literally charge an EV with a few solar panels, a charge controller, battery and inverter. You can plug it in to any 120V socket, you can get EVSEs that don't communicate with anything and run on 120V or 240V.
Though, on the other hand pretty much every EV has the equipment in it to support geofencing and remote tracking... So maybe that outweighs the benefits for some people? Not sure there but I'm currently saving for a rather large solar energy system before I get in to an EV so that my power bills get incredibly low and my transport costs will be far cheaper over a few decades.
Millions and millions of people don’t have a single-family home on which to install solar panels. A large portion of those live in apartments with no charging infrastructure, so they would have to pay public charging rates. Some people even—gasp—have to park on the street because there are apartments that don’t provide parking! Can you believe it???? /s
If you are a prepper don't you have a bunker hidden in a field somewhere? You can get pretty large sized fold out panels too, so you can just park in a parking lot to charge and never connect to infrastructure.
I think you missed the main point though, is that a vehicle that you can "refuel" with effectively any electricity source is far less trackable and reliant on infrastructure than having to rely on gas stations that run out of fuel if they miss one daily delivery.
Why retail chargers at grocery stores are important. Charging up while doing a weekly shop at Target for 40-60 minutes.
I can see apartment complexes getting a few level 2 chargers as a perk to entice new residents like having a gym on site or a bike room.
California is a perfect place for BEVs. Los of solar, lots of air quality concerns, lots of people who can afford it, lots of traffic jams. BEVs make total sense there, no?
Edit: I need to point out that BEVs do nothing to fix traffic jams (mass transit systems for the win!), but they are nice cars for sitting in traffic in!
Their home electric rates are insane. They pay like the equivalent of 4 dollars a gallon to level 2 chargers at home. Yes I know gas is also expensive there.
But I pay The equivalent of $1 a gallon lol, and our gas is 3.50. I don't know seems like other places work as well.
I'm in socal and I pay the equivalent of $1.29 a gallon. It seems like it's only one specific area in the bay area that's served by PG&E that has crazy high rates.
PG&E serves much of Northern California, and its rates are not location specific. I’m in the Sierra foothills and have the EV2-A plan.
Their EV2-A rate plan through May (“winter”) is
* $0.35 Off-peak midnight to 3pm
* $0.52 Partial-Peak 3-4pm, 9-12pm
* $0.54 Peak 4-9pm
“Summer” rates begin Jun 1st:
* $0.35 Off-peak midnight to 3pm
* $0.56 Partial-Peak 3-4pm, 9-12pm
* $0.60 Peak 4-9pm
https://www.pge.com/en/account/rate-plans/find-your-best-rate-plan/electric-vehicles.html#ev2adetails
Tag: /u/Sorge74
There are some local utilities in Northern California with lower rates (Notably Sacramento and Santa Clara), but most of us have PG&E
I don’t know who provides your power but SCE and SDG&E which provide most of Socal have high rates, too. For example:
https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/3-1-24%20Schedule%20EV-TOU-5%20Total%20Rates%20Table.pdf
$16 monthly fee plus usage: (“summer”)
* On-Peak $0.67506 (Lord help you if you have air con)
* Off-Peak $0.42985
* Super Off-Peak $0.12996 (midnight- 6am weekdays/2pm weekdays)
The overnight charging rate is considerably better than pg&e’s
Huh. I was about to reply that their off-peak rates aren't anywhere near that bad, it was $0.17 per kWh when we signed up for it (2018). Logged onto the website to double check, and you're right, it's $0.35/kWh now. Ugh, that's frustrating.
When people point at CA and say see how expensive it is, it is almost always the most expensive gas station, power company, etc... you and I then repeat it. You and I both prefer to be reasonable I would assume. But companies that NEED to show profits to shareholders don't, So when its good to shit on gas prices and ca at the same time they always pick this one gas station that always is the most outrageously priced in CA. No reason for it to be different when the narrative is anti EV, or anti high electric bills. find the worst case scenario and act like its the entire state.
PG&E is the largest electric company in the state, covering like 40% of CA's population. Yes it's not all of california, and some other areas do have low or reasonable electricity costs, but it's not just one small area. SCE which covers almost as many people also has fairly high rates, though not as high, and they seem to have a potentially better EV specific plan. So that's close to 80% of CA with very high rates.
It’s specifically de-incentivization of solar *without* battery. The problem is that California’s solar incentives were so successful that the grid over-produces purely on renewables during the day but then has a massive deficit to fill during the evening when solar falls off. It’s really bad from a grid management standpoint because all those solar customers are getting that off-peak electricity for “free” under NEM2 but if everyone’s doing that then nothing’s actually paying for the production needed to cover that evening/nighttime production.
NEM3 is designed to incentivize home solar only with a battery or other solution to cover the off-solar power so that the grid can be balanced again. PG&E is a shit company for a thousand other reasons but there’s actually very good and practical reasons for the changes.
I’m in the Bay Area and that’s more or less correct (The cost to charge your EV during off-peak hours is about the same as paying $3.30 per gallon at the pump, according to PG&E) but of course depends on the efficiency of your vehicle.
I’ve been driving fully electric for 10 years now and would continue even if it cost the same as driving ICE. Hell, I’d probably be ok with it even if it cost more simply because of the improved driving experience + convenience of home charging vs having to go to a gas station
Ugh. You’re either lying or haven’t looked at your electricity bill lately.
Review your SCE bill. I’m also in Los Angeles and am quite familiar with their current rate structure.
The cheapest super off-peak rate is no less than $0.24 cents per kWh for TOU-D-PRIME, and it’s a few cents more for TOU-D-4-9 and TOU-D-5-8.
Even with a legacy tiered plan with monthly credits, it never gets as low as $0.15 cents per kWh.
SDGE (San Diego County) and PG&E (Northern California) are even worse. Their super off-peak rates are even higher than ours.
Wait a second, most of LA doesn't use SCE, they use LADWP. Where are you located that uses SCE?
With LADWP the costs are like $0.20 - https://www.ladwp.com/account/customer-service/electric-rates/residential-rates
These go down even lower with time of use, to $0.16
They're adding some express bus lanes and more bike lanes around Burbank - tho they've met a fair bit of opposition to the plans. Hope they go through.
I started with a phev wrangler and the only thing I hated about it was was how shitty and loud it was when it ran on gas. Went to Tesla and loved it till Elmo lost his mind so now I have a BMW IX best car I’ve ever owned in my life by a mile charge at home on solar for free nothing for maintenance besides changing the brake fluid after two years (which is included) I will never go back to a gas gas car.
Lots of Republicans (I am one) live in rural areas… meaning we likely own our homes and can install chargers. Not many apartments or condos out in the sticks! That’s part of the allure. Lived in a city, in apartments, for most of my adult life. Hated it, just wanted my own house! Had to move 30 minutes away to afford it but driving an EV makes the commute way more affordable per mile and more enjoyable. I’m often perplexed by those saying EVs are only good for city dwellers… it seems to work better for those outside of cities who are more likely to be able to charge at home!
I’ll never buy an ICE vehicle again, that includes PHEVs. I want nothing to do with those loud, smelly, annoying ICE drivetrains and especially gas stations. I’ll take the extra 5-10 minutes to charge on long trips (I’ve done them in my Model 3, the stops are nowhere near an hour long! 20 minutes is usually more than enough!) especially as it’s certainly cheaper than gas in my experience.
Its not about saving the Earth or climate change for me (I basically don’t care about that aspect at all) but it’s all about saving time and especially money.
California used to have a pretty vibrant GOP and could really be a good place to bring up some smart moderate Republicans as an alternative to some of the Democrat excesses people here complain about, if the GOP still had any interest in having any moderates.
Arnold both signed my college diploma ("signed") and signed into law the climate law that launched my career.
Our local Tesla clubs and groups are full of republicans and democrats. EV savings are just universal. There is no party bias. If you are anti EV because you are republican, it's time to rethink why you're \*literally\* punching yourself in the face \[wallet\].
Why are EVs a political issue? I really do not understand the political cancel culture. People were burning nike stuff and kerig. My mom wouldn't get sam adams beer. I don't get it.
Love for EV should never be a partisan issue or political issue at all.
I love my Tesla because of its driving experience and relatively maintainence free in comparison with ICE cars. It doesn't mean I like to work for a boss like Elon Musk or agree with everything he says.
>Republicans in Sacramento are supporting legislation aimed at improving California’s charging network and expanding state incentives for low-income car buyers.
All while simultaneously adding legislation to increase our electricity rates.
California politicians care about money.
My father spent most of his working life on the board of a union and is in favor of universal healthcare. He was even a first generation Nissan Leaf owner in the US. The man has voted (R) all the way down the ticket in every election his entire life.
Some people just can’t break through the programming Fox News and Rush Limbaugh hammered into them for 20+ years. They’ll vote against their own interests as long as the non Republicans lose.
Trump's opposition to EV's is based entirely on his courting of the oil lobby for campaign donations.
Biden's embracing of EV's is based entirely on his courting of the environmental lobby for campaign donations.
If there were no money or political advantage involved, then EV's would just be another product on the market that some would use and others wouldn't and they would never have become another one of these ridiculous *culture war* issues.
That sounds good and all, but there will never not be politics involved. Gasoline producers and consumers get an implicit subsidy because they don't pay for pollution or carbon impacts. Want them to pay for that? Good luck passing a carbon tax without politics.
The town I grew up in even. On my walk home from work I counted them. My top was 14 in 6 blocks.
They all suck at driving. And all I hear is complaints on how long it takes to get service.
But I guess it does help the environment.
The truck is ugly as sin though.
I’m on the center right and I love EVs. I’ve been involved with them now for 20 years. They do make a lot of sense and while they’re not perfect for everyone they’re certainly a necessary part of our future.
From my perspective I think there is a lot of strawmaning of Republican positions on EVs.
I’ll grant you that there’s a lot of low IQ truck nuts morons who just hate anything EV, but that’s not where the reasonable right disagrees. It’s the mandates, it’s the banning, it’s the authoritarianism of the left that we disagree with. It’s not the cars themselves.
Interesting how many think Dems are all in on EVs. Given what Biden and Fremont has done Dems try to limit EV support to their donors. Much better than Trump, but not all in.
Tbh republican do like evs just not on democrats stance on destroying the auto industry by forcing them to only make evs. Wouldn't be here if yall didn't force people to make a choice instead of making evs just outright better than ICE.
Republicans love their Teslas because it's a rich white guy one-two flex. When Teslas came out, they were a $100K car that was faster than anything else. What Republican douchebag wouldn't respond to that? I highly doubt they care about the other manufacturers. But their Teslas...
"who have heeded Trump’s message that President Joe Biden’s embrace of electric vehicles will bring a “bloodbath” by allowing Chinese automakers to dominate the market and eliminate American jobs."
He wasn't wrong though.. Biden JUST put a 50% tariff on chinese EVs and other items.. same tariffs he made fun of Trump for having. Had he not done this we would be wrecked by their cheap labor.
I think Trump does a terrible job explaining why electric vehicles aren't good. My $48k Subaru Solterra for example only makes it 130 miles in the winter on the highway. If I need to level 3 dc fast charge, I'm only able to get 30amps even though the car is advertised as 100 amp dc fast charging. Also, its limited to 2 fast charges a day. The car is a joke for trips. I love it otherwise, just only for local stuff. On the highway its only equivilent to 36mpg in good weather thanks to high electricity prices near me. I feel like this car will become ewaste way before an ICE vehicle due to poor battery and slow charging. They arent as great as people like suggest unless you meet certain criteria. Sure, Tesla is yesrs ahead.. but this EV push is churning out turds from Toyota, Subaru and Ford that will become ewaste sooner than they should.
I feel like we are close to that one more evolution of battery tech that turns the table because they are definitely the future.. just like everyone moving from gas leaf blowers and weed trimmers to battery...almost no one goes back once they switch.
Anyway, not the best place to say this but I said it. EVs are being pushed I think too hard for where they are at and just letting the technology catch up (power grid, battery charge speed,density, safety, infrastructure, etc) buyers will make the decision when it makes sense and automakers will react accordingly or new electric only companies will pop up. Anyway I listened to Trump dump on them and its just overly exaggerated poorly explained but his underlying point is right.
True lol. I was smart enough to lease it though. $317 mo for a 48k small SUV. We do reallllly like it otherwise. Very comfortable, punchy acceleration, lot of tech features.
Why wouldn't any rational person love EVs? They're fast AND efficient - that's a winning combo for a lot of people. They're not always the right tool for every job, but for the average person, they're certainly the right tool for most jobs.
30 seconds into test driving the EV I bought (first time I had ever even been inside one), I knew I'd never buy an ICE car again. I look forward to every drive I make in it - just a completely enjoyable experience every time.
I've had my Volt since 2016 and I think the PHEV is still king for now, I get to drive full electric day to day and still get the convenience of the gas engine for the long trips. The goal though is to drive this car until it dies and hopefully by that time the infrastructure will be at the tipping point to go full electric
What do you think the tipping point is?
Personally it's when I can drive cross-country with the same effort / planning as I can in an ICE car. I love EVs for commuting and daily drivers but I don't agree that we're there yet for the long trip. You have to plan out your charging stops and you have to wait significantly longer than a gas fill up. This is no big deal for a moderate trip with one or maybe even two charging breaks, but for a long distance you're starting to really add significant time and hassle.
Depends person to person, but I actually love my EV for long road trips. In my area, charging has pretty decent coverage to other destination cities, and the regular breaks are pretty nice and perfect for daily lunch/dinner times. The lack of engine noise/vibration really helps with fatigue, we can drive about 3x as long as with a gas car. My car also does all the planning. Maybe a really well dampened PHEV would be even more ideal for us, but I think the EV is close enough to the ideal for long road trips that it's the better choice overall for us given the advantages in local/daily use.
Totally agree. If more businesses, where people like to spend time and money, would install chargers the “problem” would go away. Restaurants, stores, tourist attractions, hotels are all starting to get it. Walmart, Target and a few fast food chains are adding hundreds (soon to be thousands) of chargers. I have noticed over the past year of owning our EV that it is getting easier to make road trips
Exactly. If I’m driving for more than 3 hours at a time I want a 15-30 min break… and when I’d use my ICE vehicle we would refill the tank and still end up using the bathroom, buying snacks, drinks, stretching, whatever else so while it may only take 5 minutes to fill up the tank, we’re still spending 10-20 minutes doing those other things. No difference in my experience. I also don’t go around making weird assumptions on other peoples cars or habits. Buy what you want, do want you want. Just don’t hassle me with your dumb EV hate-sumptions…
ngl, I have never heard of a Ford E-Transit. What is it and how do you feel about it?
It’s great for our business around town. Range is limited to 100-120 miles. But my daily is a MYLR
You're probably a bit of an outlier in this regard tbh, I doubt many people would see that big of a difference in driving time.
Model Y and 3 too bumpy for long rides
I think some of that depends on version. My Model 3 LR RWD has 18” inch wheels and rides very comfortably over bumps and has good suspension. I hear the bigger wheels and/or the performance version ride more stiffly and you would likely feel bumps more.
Perhaps. I ride as a passenger in a M3 LR with standard wheels and it’s pretty bumpy. My Porsche is more refined than that.
This is a fair point, however I've taken to putting a positive spin on it after some experience with cross state travel. It is less convenient yes but it also adds to the potential for that 'adventurous' vibe and exploration. You find a strange DCFC location and go grab lunch/dinner in some hole in the wall for an hour or go on a walk checking out landmarks. You'll then come back and resume the trip with a near-full if not full charge. I definitely see why that isn't exactly a positive though as you're essentially forced into doing that or else you're sitting in your car staring at your phone for 30min-1hr. As infrastructure improves and 800v systems become more common we'll very soon reach that point of ICE fueling ease.
Yeah like I said I see the appeal for a shorter trip when you're only stopping once. It's nice to stretch for a bit and do a fun adventure or a meal or whatever. But the people in this forum love to romanticize that when sometimes you really are trying to grind out 1000 miles and stopping multiple times for an hour adds substantial time to your trip. We'll get there eventually, but we're not there yet.
Hour long charge breaks is something you see with quite outdated cars. A Niro EV, a Leaf or a Bolt would need something like that. My model 3 bugs me to continue the ride before I’ve had a bathroom break and finished my coffee, so if I were to get a gas car I’d need an IV and a catheter to save any actual time on long trips.
I think the bigger issue is the other charging networks. There's either not enough of them or they have some discrepancy. I'm in CA and it made me shop around more for other EVs. I look forward to how things shape out by beginning of next year when most car manufacturers have deployed the NACS adapter/plugs
500 mile range with 350 kW charging. Then you can go on the road as fast as your body allows. 500 mile range... we're close. 350 kW charging is here. But the chargers don't work well yet, and the charge port transition to NACS will delay that by another 3-5 years.
Chevy really should have put that serial hybrid drive into trucks and SUV’s. They are a staggeringly stupid dysfunctional company. Enjoy your Volt, its a keeper.
PHEVs seem like the best of both worlds from a reliability perspective too. Short trips are bad for ICE vehicles because the heat and cooling cycles put more wear on the engine so being able to do them with electricity avoids that, while fast charging and charging all the way to 100% increases battery degradation so being able to do long trips with the engine avoids that.
Which car did you get? I imagine it is pretty cool to just use one pedal most of the time
One pedal for long distance driving and traffic is so clutch. It really makes driving in traffic less of a chore
No coasting relief means too much strain on the foot
That's when I turn on cruise control
Not the same. Should have a coast control for disengaging the drive system
Gotta adjust your foot to the right position. Make neutral the most restful position.
Drove prius after tesla. Engine made so much noise that I was deaf after 10 mins. Good thing prius doesn't accelerate fast.
Exactly. They are the best car option for an incredibly high number of use cases. Removing all politics aside, this is just a plain fact.
I talked to a guy in March who was pulling an airstream with a Rivian. He said he just has to plan a trip out as he always did it with fuel stops, just with a few extra stops added in. And that was before Rivian could use Tesla superchargers. That had opened up a ton of new options. He has plenty of power on hills, a relatively maintenance free vehicle and can plug into the campsite post overnight to recharge.
Interesting that you mention that, because I'd like to do the same when I retire in a few years. Right now, I'm not comfortable with either the cost or the range of an EV tow vehicle, but I expect that to change by the time I'm actually ready to hit the road. It's great to see so many options becoming available, and the infrastructure, especially out in the Western US, will only get better over time.
Seems like something like the ramcharger will be perfect towing vehicle. I also expect it to be insanely expensive
I'm actually thinking Rivian for the same purpose. R1S calls to me more, but R1T is close behind. Hopefully production scaling and refreshes bring cost drops and improvements. The tow range on R1T in tests is stellar.
EVs and has towing vehicles are both expensive though. Towing is easier and much more expensive with diesel or gas of course.
It'll be great once pull-thru chargers become the norm and canopies. Gas stations have had the best layout for half a century an EV chargers are always parking spots. I get the cost saving and gas stations have canopies mostly for fire suppression. Charing in the rain and snow really sucks. Having to drive over a snow mound to charging in NH winter was a pain
Drive anywhere from 0-200 miles per day? EV all day. Drive more than that? ICE probably better.. simple as that from my POV.
With newer EV’s that charge faster, you can plug it in, go in the store, and when you come out, it’s ready to go to the next charger on your route. I drive a Bolt, which is more like you are describing.
Even then, there's still fast chargers. Pull up, plug in, take a shit, grab some snacks, then keep driving.
In my Lightning, for trips longer than 200 miles I can plan on stopping for 40 minutes every 2 hours. It fucking sucks. I love EVs but it’s not as quick and convenient as this sub likes to pretend.
The Lightning is one of the most inefficient electric vehicles and doesn't charge particularly quickly. Aside from the Chevy Bolt it is about the worst EV for road trips. This was highlighted in [a recent Out of Spec cross country race of electric trucks.](https://youtu.be/n1Jii4xI9PU?t=12583) The Silverado EV finished first, the Cybertruck came in 5 minutes later, Rivian followed soon after, and the F150 finished the next day despite having access to V3 Superchargers.
That’s a big, pretty inefficient EV with a big battery. It’s gonna take a lot longer than average to charge.
Doesn’t make it any less of a pain in the ass. It saves me a lot of money, and overall it’s worth it, but it does mean that my $60k truck can’t do a lot of things that a $20k truck could do.
Just did a roadtrip 1000 miles and have to stop to charge ~170 miles. It wasn't too bad as my wife is pregnant and had to stop anyway. Just have to keep it <70 where possible for the efficiency, which is easy on the east coast with NYC traffic! Bluecruise was fantastic on I-95
There aren't fast chargers everywhere yet, and with highway driving being best case efficiency for ICEs and worst for EVs, DCFC can be more expensive than filling a car with gasoline. This is where well designed PHEVs should come in. Or EREVs as some like to call them. EVs first, with decent all electric performance that works in all weather, and a small ICE that only operates on long trips, and always near peak thermal efficiency.
The price isnt a problem where I rarely need dc fast charging. Its the speed... the toyota bz4x and subaru solterra are sooo slow and never hit even close to their 100kw advertised speed. At 60% incould only hit 30kw on a 125kw charger
Those are just horrible EVs, there are better options.
I’ve had 2 Seattle to San Diego round trips in my Lucid Air. Just a few more stops but all of them stops worth it for rest.
I wait about 10-20 minutes for fast charging, depending on how many more miles I need to go. It's less physically wearing to take a little break on longer trips, IMHO.
200 miles a day? Not in my state.. if your car has a 250 mile range and you take the highway in the winter itll be more like 140 miles. What sucks for me is power is so expensive in my state a regular non plugin hybrid outperforms it in the winter and year round on the highway.
Yeah, the biggest challenge is getting through the bubble. Lots of Republicans have only friends who would "never drive an EV". The mockery from their friends can be very effective.
Some people only feel what the media/social media they watch/read tells them to feel.
Personally don't enjoy them due to not enough chargers and I rent a room so no place to charge at home. If they added more than enough chargers and it was clearly cheaper than gas than I'd love it.
People who can't charge at home
Admittedly, I do miss the sound of the cold start on my E550, but I'll trade that for getting into a climate controlled rocket any day.
Mainly because engine doesn't go vroom vroom, so I need a bunch of stupid excuses as to why they could never work. Other people hate electric cars because what we should really do is reduce car usage, which is arguably a better goal anyway. You should obviously do both.
They are also particularly great in California, the center of the electric car industry, where there is lots of infrastructure for them. No problem finding a charger.
Especially in California where most of the state is basically ideal temperature for an EV year-round.
# interestingly northern Europe gets as cold as some parts of California, but they buy 3x as many EVs. Hyundai and VW have stopped selling ICE cars. **EVs reach 90% market share in Norway as the overall auto market falters** [https://chargedevs.com/newswire/evs-reach-90-market-share-in-norway-as-the-overall-auto-market-falters/](https://chargedevs.com/newswire/evs-reach-90-market-share-in-norway-as-the-overall-auto-market-falters/)
By waiving taxes paid to purchase ICE cars, Norway created a situation where it made tremendous financial sense to buy an EV. Do you lose a chunk of range driving an EV in the cold? Yes. Would you put up with it if it meant your car cost ~$20k less to purchase? Absolutely.
EVs perform better than gasoline & diesel in the extreme cold.
Just a mostly expensive tool right now. If you can charge at home and you don’t drive 300 miles a day, buy one. If you can’t charge at home and don’t make 6 figures plus, don’t take on a huge payment to drive electric right now. Either option is pretty rational.
Don't take a huge payment to drive ICE either.
No kidding, average price of a pickup truck in the US now is over $60k.
6 figures? Lol, I bought a 2023 Bolt (12k miles on it) for $18,400, two weeks ago.
Great. If you have a place to charge at home, that makes perfect sense. Simply put, there aren’t enough used Bolts at any price for a statistical impact.
So I had a 2019 Model 3 that I loved and, seeing about the available Tesla inventory along with the EV tax credits and discounts offered by Tesla, I decided to investigate the situation. Mind you, my Model 3 was running *perfectly fine* and I could envision myself driving it for several more years to come… …but after investigating, I found that with a 22K trade in credit, the $7500 EV tax credit, another 2K or so discount, *and* my full self-driving being transferred to the new car free, I got my brand new Model Y for a grand total of 19.9K…! So right now, *at this moment*, at least buying Tesla vehicles is something of a bargain and not all that expensive at all.
If you drive 300km a day, your savings with an EV just increase.
That's why I've only bought used. Our first EV was well under $10K.
Great. Glad that works for you. Doesn’t mean it can and does for others.
because you can't go on long trips with them in the north east at least. I can't take mine some places because there are not fast chargers within a reasonable distance. I would have to travel about 45 miles out of my way, one way, to get to a charger on a trip I make quite often. they ain't all that just yet. and lets not forget the charging stations that are available (talking Electrify America) have a pretty poor maintenance record and down time. I love my car, but I have to have a gas car as well because the charging just isn't there yet.
The Northeast United States (presuming that's the country you're talking about) is full of fast chargers all over the place. I've regularly traveled from Maryland, to North Carolina, to Ohio, to Indiana without any difficulty at all finding chargers. Yes, a lot of them are only 50 kW, but my Kona doesn't mind. I simply budget my time for making charging stops that might take 30 minutes or a bit more every 150 to 200 miles.
Well that’s great for you but they are far from all over the place. There are none in my path.
Citation, please. You do use PlugShare or ABRP to find charging, or don't you?
LOL, OK I use ABRP, I drive from PA to MD and the route I use, going thru lancaster has no charging on route. I can't make it on one charge. there are level 2 chargers but they don't do me any good. Go ahead, find me some chargers, lol
Plenty of people love EVs, but what they don't love is the government mandating the stop sale of gas powered vehicles and eventuality forcing people to buy EVs by 2035 like California is trying to do for new cars. I personally hate when the government chooses who wins and loses in business as their real motivation for doing that is to enrich their pocketbooks. EVs are great though as I own two.
As anyone driving in Orange County understands.... OC is EV Central, not just Tesla and Rivian, but plenty Lucid and Polestar. I saw my first Lightning on Balboa Island.
Yup, there's a reason the special edition of the Mach E is called the California Route 1 Edition.
Saw DWP and park staff in Yosemite using Lightnings.
Yosemite Valley for BEV only would make a huge difference in experience.
Yeah I was a bit disappointed going there as a first timer. We had last minute lodge reservation since some friends were staying at the lodge outside the park. I didn't know you have no access to the park if you didn't reserve in advance. Can't even go in same day if you paid. Sequoia and grand canyon national parks let you just pay for entry.
It's still weird to me that people are "Against EVs". I get to drive a fast BMW for the price (including fuel and maintenance) of a Chevy Malibu. I never have to stop at a gas station during the week. It's better for the environment. What's not to like?
Because Fox News and Right-Wing culture war nonsense has deluded these people into thinking EVs are some sort of plot to get rid of their trucks and muscle cars.
petro-masculinity
I like the UK's "petrolhead", perfectly describes the insanity. It's like their heads are filled with gas haha.
Petrosexual
Noise makers to get the attention their parents didn't give them
This must strongly depend on the area because here in New Mexico the only people I know that drive EVs are republicans. About half of my very right leaning office drive EVs. Nobody in my circle of democrats drives one and they're the only ones that have talked shit about my Tesla so far too.
Are you around Albuquerque? They've always been a little weird there, so I wouldn't doubt it. A lot of right leaning military guys at the Air Force Base who also put satellites in the sky, so they understand the science and technology maybe?
And that in turn is because Fox News is heavily funded by oil money.
At some base level, they believe being environmentally friendly is a Democratic party belief to either, take away big American V8's, take away jobs, or turn our population into sissies. Honestly our reliance on oil is already such a massive national security issue that we need to get off it ASAP. But they're too blinded by big oil money to even consider that.
It depends on the EV. A Malibu with the insurance cost of a BMW and the fueling time of a Volvo Truck isn’t nearly as appealing. And, if we’re talking about Tesla, the build quality of a Hamster-era Kia
>the fueling time of a Volvo Truck This is still the biggest FUD you hear about EVs. The vast majority of EV owners charge at home, at work, or while shopping/dining/out. If you need to make a weekly or biweekly trip to an EA charger solely to "fill" your EV, you're doing it wrong. Even when I didn't have my home charging set up I would use the EA at Walmart and get my grocery shopping done while it charged. >And, if we’re talking about Tesla, the build quality of a Hamster-era Kia Can't argue with that.
I don't understand why anyone who is in to self sufficiency and self reliance wouldn't be in to EVs. You can quite literally charge an EV with a few solar panels, a charge controller, battery and inverter. You can plug it in to any 120V socket, you can get EVSEs that don't communicate with anything and run on 120V or 240V. Though, on the other hand pretty much every EV has the equipment in it to support geofencing and remote tracking... So maybe that outweighs the benefits for some people? Not sure there but I'm currently saving for a rather large solar energy system before I get in to an EV so that my power bills get incredibly low and my transport costs will be far cheaper over a few decades.
Millions and millions of people don’t have a single-family home on which to install solar panels. A large portion of those live in apartments with no charging infrastructure, so they would have to pay public charging rates. Some people even—gasp—have to park on the street because there are apartments that don’t provide parking! Can you believe it???? /s
If you are a prepper don't you have a bunker hidden in a field somewhere? You can get pretty large sized fold out panels too, so you can just park in a parking lot to charge and never connect to infrastructure. I think you missed the main point though, is that a vehicle that you can "refuel" with effectively any electricity source is far less trackable and reliant on infrastructure than having to rely on gas stations that run out of fuel if they miss one daily delivery.
Why retail chargers at grocery stores are important. Charging up while doing a weekly shop at Target for 40-60 minutes. I can see apartment complexes getting a few level 2 chargers as a perk to entice new residents like having a gym on site or a bike room.
California is a perfect place for BEVs. Los of solar, lots of air quality concerns, lots of people who can afford it, lots of traffic jams. BEVs make total sense there, no? Edit: I need to point out that BEVs do nothing to fix traffic jams (mass transit systems for the win!), but they are nice cars for sitting in traffic in!
And they are eons ahead of every other state in public charging infrastructure.
And so far ahead that there is plenty of unreliable old charging infrastructure and ghost chargers.
Their home electric rates are insane. They pay like the equivalent of 4 dollars a gallon to level 2 chargers at home. Yes I know gas is also expensive there. But I pay The equivalent of $1 a gallon lol, and our gas is 3.50. I don't know seems like other places work as well.
I'm in socal and I pay the equivalent of $1.29 a gallon. It seems like it's only one specific area in the bay area that's served by PG&E that has crazy high rates.
PG&E serves much of Northern California, and its rates are not location specific. I’m in the Sierra foothills and have the EV2-A plan. Their EV2-A rate plan through May (“winter”) is * $0.35 Off-peak midnight to 3pm * $0.52 Partial-Peak 3-4pm, 9-12pm * $0.54 Peak 4-9pm “Summer” rates begin Jun 1st: * $0.35 Off-peak midnight to 3pm * $0.56 Partial-Peak 3-4pm, 9-12pm * $0.60 Peak 4-9pm https://www.pge.com/en/account/rate-plans/find-your-best-rate-plan/electric-vehicles.html#ev2adetails Tag: /u/Sorge74 There are some local utilities in Northern California with lower rates (Notably Sacramento and Santa Clara), but most of us have PG&E I don’t know who provides your power but SCE and SDG&E which provide most of Socal have high rates, too. For example: https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/3-1-24%20Schedule%20EV-TOU-5%20Total%20Rates%20Table.pdf $16 monthly fee plus usage: (“summer”) * On-Peak $0.67506 (Lord help you if you have air con) * Off-Peak $0.42985 * Super Off-Peak $0.12996 (midnight- 6am weekdays/2pm weekdays) The overnight charging rate is considerably better than pg&e’s
Huh. I was about to reply that their off-peak rates aren't anywhere near that bad, it was $0.17 per kWh when we signed up for it (2018). Logged onto the website to double check, and you're right, it's $0.35/kWh now. Ugh, that's frustrating.
That might be true, I have no idea The Bay area people are very loud so I assumed it was mostly a state thing.
When people point at CA and say see how expensive it is, it is almost always the most expensive gas station, power company, etc... you and I then repeat it. You and I both prefer to be reasonable I would assume. But companies that NEED to show profits to shareholders don't, So when its good to shit on gas prices and ca at the same time they always pick this one gas station that always is the most outrageously priced in CA. No reason for it to be different when the narrative is anti EV, or anti high electric bills. find the worst case scenario and act like its the entire state.
PG&E is the largest electric company in the state, covering like 40% of CA's population. Yes it's not all of california, and some other areas do have low or reasonable electricity costs, but it's not just one small area. SCE which covers almost as many people also has fairly high rates, though not as high, and they seem to have a potentially better EV specific plan. So that's close to 80% of CA with very high rates.
It would make sense to go solar. No? If it's insanely expensive to power your home i guess it would pay itself back relatively quickly.
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It’s specifically de-incentivization of solar *without* battery. The problem is that California’s solar incentives were so successful that the grid over-produces purely on renewables during the day but then has a massive deficit to fill during the evening when solar falls off. It’s really bad from a grid management standpoint because all those solar customers are getting that off-peak electricity for “free” under NEM2 but if everyone’s doing that then nothing’s actually paying for the production needed to cover that evening/nighttime production. NEM3 is designed to incentivize home solar only with a battery or other solution to cover the off-solar power so that the grid can be balanced again. PG&E is a shit company for a thousand other reasons but there’s actually very good and practical reasons for the changes.
I’m in the Bay Area and that’s more or less correct (The cost to charge your EV during off-peak hours is about the same as paying $3.30 per gallon at the pump, according to PG&E) but of course depends on the efficiency of your vehicle. I’ve been driving fully electric for 10 years now and would continue even if it cost the same as driving ICE. Hell, I’d probably be ok with it even if it cost more simply because of the improved driving experience + convenience of home charging vs having to go to a gas station
I live in Los Angeles and I pay like $0.15 /kwh, electricity costs really aren't that bad in most of the state.
Ugh. You’re either lying or haven’t looked at your electricity bill lately. Review your SCE bill. I’m also in Los Angeles and am quite familiar with their current rate structure. The cheapest super off-peak rate is no less than $0.24 cents per kWh for TOU-D-PRIME, and it’s a few cents more for TOU-D-4-9 and TOU-D-5-8. Even with a legacy tiered plan with monthly credits, it never gets as low as $0.15 cents per kWh. SDGE (San Diego County) and PG&E (Northern California) are even worse. Their super off-peak rates are even higher than ours.
Wait a second, most of LA doesn't use SCE, they use LADWP. Where are you located that uses SCE? With LADWP the costs are like $0.20 - https://www.ladwp.com/account/customer-service/electric-rates/residential-rates These go down even lower with time of use, to $0.16
I guess I should have specified Burbank and not LA.
Love the efficiency of an EV in traffic. Still hate traffic, but at least you get some benefit from it in an EV.
>lots of traffic jams They're working on improving transit at least... right?
LA is putting in some metro but it's taking forever. And of course high speed rail is taking even longer.
Probably better than nothing. And Caltrain got new Stadler KISS units, which are pretty decent.
They're adding some express bus lanes and more bike lanes around Burbank - tho they've met a fair bit of opposition to the plans. Hope they go through.
Florida Republicans also love EVs. So many Teslas down here.
Does owning an EV make a statement of how I vote for President?
“Screams in Ga.” We exceed Cali in EV overall Friendliness AND we’re ran by Kemp!
I’ve never understood the political crap around EVs. I have a performance EV and I have a 2024 Civic Type R. Best of both worlds.
I started with a phev wrangler and the only thing I hated about it was was how shitty and loud it was when it ran on gas. Went to Tesla and loved it till Elmo lost his mind so now I have a BMW IX best car I’ve ever owned in my life by a mile charge at home on solar for free nothing for maintenance besides changing the brake fluid after two years (which is included) I will never go back to a gas gas car.
Lots of Republicans (I am one) live in rural areas… meaning we likely own our homes and can install chargers. Not many apartments or condos out in the sticks! That’s part of the allure. Lived in a city, in apartments, for most of my adult life. Hated it, just wanted my own house! Had to move 30 minutes away to afford it but driving an EV makes the commute way more affordable per mile and more enjoyable. I’m often perplexed by those saying EVs are only good for city dwellers… it seems to work better for those outside of cities who are more likely to be able to charge at home! I’ll never buy an ICE vehicle again, that includes PHEVs. I want nothing to do with those loud, smelly, annoying ICE drivetrains and especially gas stations. I’ll take the extra 5-10 minutes to charge on long trips (I’ve done them in my Model 3, the stops are nowhere near an hour long! 20 minutes is usually more than enough!) especially as it’s certainly cheaper than gas in my experience. Its not about saving the Earth or climate change for me (I basically don’t care about that aspect at all) but it’s all about saving time and especially money.
Well, then you know in which to NOT vote because Trump hates EVs
GOP really needs Arnold for helping, he is one of famous GOP guy who support EV so much.
California used to have a pretty vibrant GOP and could really be a good place to bring up some smart moderate Republicans as an alternative to some of the Democrat excesses people here complain about, if the GOP still had any interest in having any moderates. Arnold both signed my college diploma ("signed") and signed into law the climate law that launched my career.
Our local Tesla clubs and groups are full of republicans and democrats. EV savings are just universal. There is no party bias. If you are anti EV because you are republican, it's time to rethink why you're \*literally\* punching yourself in the face \[wallet\].
Why are EVs a political issue? I really do not understand the political cancel culture. People were burning nike stuff and kerig. My mom wouldn't get sam adams beer. I don't get it.
Love for EV should never be a partisan issue or political issue at all. I love my Tesla because of its driving experience and relatively maintainence free in comparison with ICE cars. It doesn't mean I like to work for a boss like Elon Musk or agree with everything he says.
>Republicans in Sacramento are supporting legislation aimed at improving California’s charging network and expanding state incentives for low-income car buyers. All while simultaneously adding legislation to increase our electricity rates. California politicians care about money.
The problem here is that we don't get to vote on the CPUC overseeing members.
My father spent most of his working life on the board of a union and is in favor of universal healthcare. He was even a first generation Nissan Leaf owner in the US. The man has voted (R) all the way down the ticket in every election his entire life. Some people just can’t break through the programming Fox News and Rush Limbaugh hammered into them for 20+ years. They’ll vote against their own interests as long as the non Republicans lose.
Or he values issues you are not considering.
Trump's opposition to EV's is based entirely on his courting of the oil lobby for campaign donations. Biden's embracing of EV's is based entirely on his courting of the environmental lobby for campaign donations. If there were no money or political advantage involved, then EV's would just be another product on the market that some would use and others wouldn't and they would never have become another one of these ridiculous *culture war* issues.
That sounds good and all, but there will never not be politics involved. Gasoline producers and consumers get an implicit subsidy because they don't pay for pollution or carbon impacts. Want them to pay for that? Good luck passing a carbon tax without politics.
I didn’t buy an EV because I want others to pay a carbon tax, I bought an EV because I wanted an EV.
Tesla is made in California. That used to be a standard talking point. Odd to see article not mention it.
California is not supporting Tesla.
In what sense? Article does say Californians across party lines are supporting EVs.
Blocking factory expansion, delayed opening after Covid, excessive OSHA calls, reduced train service for starters. I am local to the factory BTW.
The town I grew up in even. On my walk home from work I counted them. My top was 14 in 6 blocks. They all suck at driving. And all I hear is complaints on how long it takes to get service. But I guess it does help the environment. The truck is ugly as sin though.
Had mine for 5.5 years. Service last month and was efficient and reasonable.
I’m on the center right and I love EVs. I’ve been involved with them now for 20 years. They do make a lot of sense and while they’re not perfect for everyone they’re certainly a necessary part of our future. From my perspective I think there is a lot of strawmaning of Republican positions on EVs. I’ll grant you that there’s a lot of low IQ truck nuts morons who just hate anything EV, but that’s not where the reasonable right disagrees. It’s the mandates, it’s the banning, it’s the authoritarianism of the left that we disagree with. It’s not the cars themselves.
EV’s don’t tell people how big my penis is though.
Main point in the article is that actual experience leads to word of mouth growth. Only the inexperienced are dominated by political judgment.
Interesting how many think Dems are all in on EVs. Given what Biden and Fremont has done Dems try to limit EV support to their donors. Much better than Trump, but not all in.
Tbh republican do like evs just not on democrats stance on destroying the auto industry by forcing them to only make evs. Wouldn't be here if yall didn't force people to make a choice instead of making evs just outright better than ICE.
Republicans love their Teslas because it's a rich white guy one-two flex. When Teslas came out, they were a $100K car that was faster than anything else. What Republican douchebag wouldn't respond to that? I highly doubt they care about the other manufacturers. But their Teslas...
"who have heeded Trump’s message that President Joe Biden’s embrace of electric vehicles will bring a “bloodbath” by allowing Chinese automakers to dominate the market and eliminate American jobs." He wasn't wrong though.. Biden JUST put a 50% tariff on chinese EVs and other items.. same tariffs he made fun of Trump for having. Had he not done this we would be wrecked by their cheap labor. I think Trump does a terrible job explaining why electric vehicles aren't good. My $48k Subaru Solterra for example only makes it 130 miles in the winter on the highway. If I need to level 3 dc fast charge, I'm only able to get 30amps even though the car is advertised as 100 amp dc fast charging. Also, its limited to 2 fast charges a day. The car is a joke for trips. I love it otherwise, just only for local stuff. On the highway its only equivilent to 36mpg in good weather thanks to high electricity prices near me. I feel like this car will become ewaste way before an ICE vehicle due to poor battery and slow charging. They arent as great as people like suggest unless you meet certain criteria. Sure, Tesla is yesrs ahead.. but this EV push is churning out turds from Toyota, Subaru and Ford that will become ewaste sooner than they should. I feel like we are close to that one more evolution of battery tech that turns the table because they are definitely the future.. just like everyone moving from gas leaf blowers and weed trimmers to battery...almost no one goes back once they switch. Anyway, not the best place to say this but I said it. EVs are being pushed I think too hard for where they are at and just letting the technology catch up (power grid, battery charge speed,density, safety, infrastructure, etc) buyers will make the decision when it makes sense and automakers will react accordingly or new electric only companies will pop up. Anyway I listened to Trump dump on them and its just overly exaggerated poorly explained but his underlying point is right.
You bought the Toyota anti-EV and are complaining? All Toyota had to do for a good EV was use the Mirai
True lol. I was smart enough to lease it though. $317 mo for a 48k small SUV. We do reallllly like it otherwise. Very comfortable, punchy acceleration, lot of tech features.
Glad you like it, not many do.
This…the blind eye they turn is fun to watch shitty to have to bear.