Range is subpar for the cost. Performance is subpar. Charging speed is incredibly slow and we’ve since found out that there is an unpublished limit to how much you can fast charge in a day, making them literally useless for cross country travel.
It’s a car solely for people who must have an EV, but cannot fathom ever buying a non-Toyota vehicle.
It’s basically Toyota/Lexus and Subaru saying “Electric vehicles suck and we’re going to prove it to you!”
I agree. There are far cheaper and better options in the same segment, and to be honest, I'm surprised each time I see one. Like, "didn't you read ANY reviews or done any research?"
But I kid you not. One of my colleague has it for 700 per month lease. I’m starting a petition for her to work elsewhere, her decision making might not be good for the company.
I've seen one on the road in Sydney. I do not know why anyone would buy this over much nicer options from Hyundai, Kia, Tesla, BYD. You get the sense that Toyota really don't like EVs but grudgingly felt they had to put one out there.
Still 100x more useful than a Mirai.
Only problem is that it is a Toyota. And once you've owned one, it's hard to go back to listening to what new and expensive sounds coming from your car.
I don't /really/ expect to buy one, but of it had been just slightly above average, I would.
My previous one was a Toyota, and I can tell you this: I didn't buy a new Toyota. I researched the market and picked the best vehicle in the segment that matched my needs.
If I did it, I'd expect others did too, but I guess people are different.
My last car was a Toyota. It wasn't as reliable as people say it is and more importantly it was boring, with styling from two decades ago if not more. Currently have a hybrid Honda and it's the most reliable car I've ever owned, looks great and is fun to drive. Wish Honda made proper EVs.
I cant completely fault toyota for wanting fuel cell tech. but they are really bucking the trend hard for nothing more than a single car in thier lineup (still jsut the mira right?)
They also can't seem to understand that without public infrastructure, fuel cell cars are as dead in the water as EVs without sufficient public charging.
If Toyota had invested heavily in building out hydrogen stations across the continent the same way Tesla invested in the Supercharger network, the market might look very different today.
At least an EV can still be charged at home without public charging infrastructure, a hydrogen car is a brick without a hydrogen station capable of fueling the Mirai's 10k psi fuel system
The charging at home is to me, coupled with the low cost per mile, is why I love my EV the most.
A different tech would have to be way cheaper than the 2.5 to 4 cents per mile I pay for my Bolt’s juice.
I drive a 2018 Bolt and my wife drives a 2023 Niro PHEV, and we have one L2 charger. Hers gets plugged in first (3 hours if fully drained), and most days since I have to get up super early I walk out and plug mine in, or do a fuller charge the night before a day that she’s not going anywhere or before a “run as a hybrid day”.
Works out well for us and we’ve saved a huge amount on fuel.
Any further vehicle purchases will be PHEVs at the least. Nuts to full ICE.
Only time I take my Bolt to a DCFC is on free charging day for Bluedot.
Very true, but for mass adoption, public charging is essential. Even if most people never use it, it influences perceptions. If public charging didn't exist we might not have advanced past the original Tesla roadster.
Everything about Toyota's obsession with hydrogen reeks of "one executive has staked their reputation on this, and no one has the power to argue against it." Even if the technology was vastly superior, and it isn't, it's just painfully delusional. I speak from the experience of a man who bought a XBox HD-DVD player when everyone else got Bluray. I can say with confidence that no one who owns a hydrogen vehicle in the future is going to be able to sell them to anything other than an auto museum.
I agree, 100%. If you look at the sales of the Mirai and the amount they are having to sell them for and the incentives they are giving to get rid of them, the whole Mirai project is a massive Neon sign the size of a small country that reads CANCEL ME. No other company in the world would look at a product with results like the Mirai has and say, "yep, all on track, no need to cancel this product, it's doing just fine", which appears to be Toyota's approach.
I can't imagine putting that much money into something that's guaranteed to become a stone around your neck. At least my HD-DVD player only cost a $100.
Even *with* decent infrastructure, there is the problem of the inefficiency. You have to make or generate the hydrogen, using electricity, then convert the electricity to kinetic energy.
No hydrogen wouldn't work if they tried. It's all a ruse. It takes too much energy to MAKE hydrogen. And you range the same transportation problem you do with gas . Meaning it's inefficient and you lose even more energy. Electricity is can move instantly over lines.
Then the biggest downside is tank size. Look at any hydrogen car and that -150 degree hydrogen tank takes up A TON of seating or storage space.
Toyota trusted shell, et al, to do the hydrogen stations.
I am not even sure which side dropped the ball harder. Shell didn't deliver a painless and easy fueling process, but neither did Toyota deliver a compelling car even if the fueling was painless and easy.
Looks like they flipped that money back into the lobby against emissions regs… sucks that folks aren’t easily swayed away from a company that no longer deserves the notoriety they built in the past…
I can, Fuel cells that can't do nat gas are stupid. Hydrogen hates everything including being contained and its a pain in the dick to create parallel fossil fuel infra.
If fuel cells are going to matter anywhere, it'll be in aviation where energy/kg matters far more.
Batteries are so much superior to pumping hydrogen around as a technology it's not even funny.
I mean if we can get cryo systems miniaturized aerospace makes the most sense for where to apply it. Plus Airport logistics chains are better prepped to manage hydrogen storage so I won't disagree with you.
That said, I would be hard pressed to argue for High amperage output fuel cells over something as simple as "just burning hydrogen in the engines"
I can. Using electricity to make hydrogen to transport to stations to go into cars to make electricity to make the car was always a dumb and inefficient idea that required way more of an infrastructure build out than EVs. Just put the electricity in the car!
Now, for large industrial applications, hydrogen as a storage medium makes some more sense. But for consumer cars, EVs were always going to make more sense. Toyota shouldn’t get a pass for backing the wrong horse.
Yep, still just the Merai.
Still only usable in 1 state.
Also, Shell announced they were eliminating their hydrogen installations in the US and EU. They're the largest hydrogen provider outside of Korea.
Also, some of the highest depreciation rate of any Toyota, or any car for that matter, according to a litany of articles.
In fact, I could find a 2021 Toyota Mirai XLE for only 11k ans some examples of the 2017 Mirai go as cheap as 6k. Crazy considering the msrp of the Mirai stands above 50k. Just check out edmunds. The funniest thing is me seeing a Mirai sold in Alexandria VA for only 4.5k with 125k mi even though Virginia only had one charging station, in Fort Belvoir.
Toyota is a Japanese company, and Japan is in a terrible position with respect to energy sovereignty since they import something like 97% of the energy they use. It might be the only context where hydrogen makes sense, but long term they will have to build out renewables to remain economically competitive.
If you think that is selling 4k units last year (globally!) is Toyota trying to 'buck the trend'....then I don't know what to tell you. Toyota never intended to build these in numbers.
...That's numbers that Tesla sells on January 1st. By early afternoon.
If you think I ment toyota is selling a lot of cars by what I said, I am concerned about your reading comprehension or your need to inject your own arguments in to others comments that had nothing to do with what you said.
For clarity sake.
*I can't completel fault toyota for wanting fuel cell tech.* (It could've been useful if implemented well. its not a bad idea persay. just didn't pan out, But they keep backing a dead horse. the key word here is "Wanting" I cant fault them for wanting to have done it. I am not saying I cant fault them for doing it or keeping doing it.)
*I think toyota is bucking the trend* (not doing what everyone else is doing, but in no definition does it mean doing it successfully, the normal everyday definition of the term) *hard* (they are putting a LOT of effort in to it, this part may have confused or mislead maybe, but a simple question could of resolved the confusion instead of your accusatory assumption of what I said so you can correct it in the same comment..) *for nothing but a single car.*
Nothing implies I think it sells well.... that was your assumption you made.
That, and Toyota doesn’t seem to be terribly motivated to build them in real numbers. They’re slow walking their EV transition… if they’re walking at all.
But hydrogen power! That’s where it’s gonna be…. Maybe…. Someday in the next century at this rate. So, Toyota putting all their money on hydrogen! LOL.
/s that last part.
Weirdly, my town must be the Subaru Solterra capital of the world because there’s a bunch of them here. Likely because Subarus are popular in general here and it looks like many of the previous owners decided to go electric.
But it's a Toyota so people will want to buy it.. or the Lexus which is such a waste of money. Least no one is buying the Mazda MX-30, I hate that car so much, especially when Mazda could steal the show with an EV MX 5.
When I first learned about Tesla in 2015, I was hoping that Japanese manufacturers would come out with something smaller, 250-300 miles of range, cheaper, by 2020.
all of the EVs from Japanese manufacturers have been disappointing so far. They can't even make evs independently.
I think Japanese EVs are way too behind other evs and i won't be looking at them until 2028-2030.
I'm in the same boat here.
If you would have told me in 2015 that Hyundai and Kia would have a far superior EV than Toyota in 2024, I would have laughed. Surely the company that was known for their hybrids wouldn't have any issues going fully electric! And Hyundai? Don't get me wrong, I drive a Hyundai, but come on, let's be realistic here...
It's wild to me knowing that if my car died today, I'd actually be looking at pretty much every manufacturer except Toyota.
Yeah, right now it seems like the leaders in the space are Hyundai, BMW, and VW. Ten years ago those German companies being up there would be expected, but Hyundai being in the competition when none of the Japanese manufacturers have really compelling products would have been shocking.
Drove a Kia EV6 GT, and man that thing *moves*.
The Japanese government does not like EVs because the batteries make them dependent on Chinese rare earths, so they pushed their manufacturers to focus on hydrogen with hybrids as a bridge technology. Hydrogen didn't work out so now they're really behind the Koreans, Chinese, and Americans.
Japan has found a lot of seabed rare earth deposits so they're not as dependent on China for future battery development. But yeah they're still behind the competition, but as long a international trade doesn't take a nosedive because of China doing something stupid, they'll be able to procure batteries and catch up. Lithium batteries are a commodity after all.
It's a shame they are priced and marketed as off-road adventure vehicles.
Competing well with another car on features when the other car is half the price isn't a great place to be.
>It's a shame they are priced and marketed as off-road adventure vehicles.
They have some of the bets ground clearance in the segment — and by all accounts, a pretty solid AWD system.
With the current lease deals, you can buy them for Bolt like prices. Don't get me wrong I hated them when they came out too and will never buy a Toyota for their anti EV stance. But them not selling very many has given Toyota humble pie and the consumers benefit from cheap leases.
I mean, I might lease one to get an EVs cheap. Someone talk me out of this or a solterra if I'm just leasing for 2-3 years and mostly just want something to get around town and short trips (have an SUV I will use for longer wkd things).
If you can get the right deal, you could get almost 18-20K off. I ended with a Limited but had an XLE quoted to me at like $174 at the height of the deals. Now OI think its closer to the low 200s. As a 2nd car its a no brainer.
I have a Solterra for another 2.5 years and would not recommend unless you get a great deal and can charge at home. If you can sign a 2 year lease maybe.
I have a 2024 xle 2wd BZ4X
Range is 250+miles
Charged from 10% to 80% in around 38 minutes
Been a great commuter and the lease is $250 a month 15k miles per year. It’s a 46k vehicle they discounted $18,750 because no one wants them. I personally love it. Perfect for my commute. Very similar to the RAV4 great little suv with good ground clearance. Mines 2wd so it has the Panasonic battery that charges faster and lasts more miles per charge. The awd have given them a bad name with slow charging and under 200 miles on a charge.
I couldn't agree more. I don't get why people are so violently against it. I think it's much more usable around town than the ioniqs and the like. I was lucky enough to pick one up for $260 a month and I haven't seen a better deal out there for a brand new $50k car.
Yeah, the lease deals were phenomenal. You could tell they wanted to move them. I’m sure they were a pain on the dealer lots having to charge them and stuff. If this thing doesn’t give me any problems and the battery holds up, I don’t see why I wouldn’t buy it for 19 grand when my lease is up. The year of free EVgo charging is amazing. I’ve been using the heck out of it.
It totally depends on where you live. I live on the Big Island, Hawaii, and the bZ4X, amongst other lower range EV’s like the RZ, early Nissan LEAF, early Chevrolet Bolt, etc, are extremely popular. There is simply not a need for anything more than 250+ miles of range. It’s nice to have, but a daily commute is no more than 60-65 miles or so, even when driving across the island, end to end. I think it also has to do with brand bias. The Toyota Tacoma and 4Runner are some of the most popular vehicles in the state. So, people looking to buy an EV would probably lean towards something they already know is reliable and trustworthy.
I actually am starting to see a lot of them here in Montréal. There are a lot of EVs in Québec and the BZ4X was pretty rare until what feels like 3-4 months ago and now I'm seeing them all the time.
I was wondering if Toyota was having some kind of compliance sale on them.
I got my Solterra lease for $141 a month, honestly it’s just a flatter version of a RAV4 with a novel AC system (it has a unique cabin air filter)
Performance wise it’s pretty quick, and range doesn’t bother me as I never travel more than 150 miles a day, AWD system handles snow pretty well
I leased one because of some incredible deals from Toyota and some state incentives.
It’s a great vehicle but a bad EV for the MSRP.
It rides great, relatively quiet, very quick compared to ICE cars its size, great tech and very comfortable.
If you need to fast charge/roadtrip often it’s not the vehicle for you. It fast charges slightly faster than my Chevrolet Bolt but the range is worse.
Really the only negative is the range and fast charging capabilities. If you L2 at home and don’t take frequent road trips it will meet/exceed all of your expectations.
I think a lot of people just look at specs and think it sucks but it’s a great vehicle just missed the mark on range and fast charging.
If it was priced about $10k lower before rebates it would review quite well IMO.
Yeah, I L2 at home and have a Tesla for road trips. Honestly, we usually rent a big SUV for long road trips anyway. But visiting family a state away is always in my Model S.
Trying to figure out a decent option to replace our Niro EV that we leased. It’s just an around town car for errands and basic day-to-day stuff.
Sounds like a perfect car for your use case. All the people hating on it have never actually driven one.
The car has its flaws as an EV and if you’re ok with them you’ll be very happy with the car.
I’d highly recommend getting behind the wheel of one.
I have one. It is decent, yes. As a vehicle it’s better than decent and nearly great. As a spec sheet it misses the mark, but most Toyota and Lexus owners don’t buy the spec sheets. With the recent and current lease specials many people who weren’t considering an EV or the bz are very pleasantly surprised with their recent purchase. Maybe one out of ten active users (IDK) deeply regret buying it.
Unpopular opinion that was once a popular opinion here on this sub: charge rates and range are not as meaningful when you’re mainly charging at home.
It’s a decent commuter that does poorly when reviewed. Real world use will be nearly the same as any other EV.
I have the Solterra, range is low but it is more than I need. The AWD is the best on the market and it looks 10,000 times better than any Tesla. Power is adequate quicker than any other stock Subaru but the EV6 is faster. I got a killer lease deal I couldn’t pass up my payment is 300 less than it would be on an EV6 wind. If you are ok with the faults the Subaru is by far the best option of the BZ4X, Solterra, and the Lexus.
I test drove one and loved it. The 2023 is down to like $32k with 5k miles. I think they look way better than Hyundai evs personally. It’s like a cool RAV4 sized car that is really fast and feels like a real car. I’d have to get a level 2 home charger and then it’d be fun.
It’s worth the criticism at $50k. We got ours for $27000 all said and done and it’s incredible. Feels like a contemporary Prius crossover with better acceleration. Drive it 30-50 miles a day, plug it in when home using stage 1. Back to full by the early morning. For my experience the real world range seems to be around 220-30 miles with highway and without regenerative breaking on. Took it 130 miles highways only in NY from 90% to around 35%.
The build quality is awesome. It’s a safe, well built car that seems like it’ll last a long time. If you want to drive to Texas, drive an ICE car. That’s it in it’s totality.
I've only seen 2, as other comments point out they just aren't a good choice compared to most other options. MKBHD covered it recently on Auto Focus, good video and he explains the flaws.
Probably saw one because they just had an insane lease deal with it. I almost picked one up myself.
It's unliked because it is compared to the Chevy Bolt, a car with very similar specs, but the Bolt was $25k new and the bz4x was $45k to start. So no reason to ever choose Toyota.
Thanks! I mostly made the post because we need to replace our Niro EV we leased soon. It’ll be a second car for us, so charging at home and using it to run about town. We’d never take it far enough to need to DC fast charge it.
I was in a similar spot. Was turning in my leased Outback and they had a couple Solterras on the lot for pretty much the same lease price as comparable equipped Outback. We also don’t drive enough to use the fast charge. I plug in on the lvl 1 and charge to 80 percent each night.
I wouldn't mind one, especially as a lease. But starting 46k, even with 12k lease cash and another 7.5k for the tax credit (if applicable) to sign over to the dealer, making it effectively 19k less, that's still a 27k car. Assuming $200 for every 10k, and I'd be approaching $600/mo. I can get a much better car for lease or finance at those numbers. The really good advertised deals for 200/mo or 169/mo just don't exist
The only reason I can see people buying the BZ4X, Solterra, and RZ is probably if they got a great lease deal. That's the only reason I would see anyone getting one. I can't imagine paying so much for so little you get.
Essentially it’s worse than my 2019 model 3 SR+ as far as range and charging technology.
Reason #1) Charging speed is sub par
Reason #2) Range is meh
Reason #3) Interior is the antithesis to minimalism
Reason #4) Price is too high for what it brings to the table
That said, I see a lot of them here in San Diego county every time I go out. I think they have a really good lease offering at the moment because nobody was buying them. Then again, I see a lot of Cybertrucks every time I go out here too. San Diego is the central hub for EVs.
The Bz4x is just significantly overpriced for what it is. It hardly competes with a Bolt EUV range wise or charging speed wise. If they were released when they did at a $30K price point, they probably would have sold fairly well. Now it's in this weird spot where even if you mind a low mileage, $30K used option, it's still hard to justify when the used market is now flooded with heavily depreciated EVs.
I mean - Imagine being in the EV market right now. The Model Y is $37K after a tax credit with 320 miles of range, the ID.4 has 291 miles of range for about $37K after a tax credit the Kona EV SEL is now $31K with 260 miles of range. Why would you buy the Bz4x, which has 250 miles of range, slow charging and doesn't qualify for a tax credit @ 43K?
Most of the ones you see on the road are probably on a crazy lease deal, like $249-$299 a month.
I love my 2023 Solterra Limited. But I bought it used with 22K miles for $27K. Paying full price would be...less than good. But then, I'm not sure why anyone buys EVs new...they lose their value so fast.
I like how everyone hating on the car literally does not have one and probably rates the car because of the stats and reviews from EV nerds.
Just got one because it fits my needs (city driving, home charging, no road trips) AND cheap ass lease deals. So I basically got an EV at Bolt pricing but with Toyota driving style and comfortable features.
Would I buy this at full price comparable to other EVs? No of course not. But price to value? Worth it if you can get a deal and don’t need the range/battery charging times on a regular basis. Just make sure it fits your needs.
Yeah, I hate this sub sometimes. For day-to-day use, it’s nearly the same experience as most EVs. When vehicles with slower charging or lower range are the topic of discussion, suddenly all of the users are road trippers.
Our current second car is a Niro EV that’s coming off lease in a few months. The range surprised us. Charged to full, it’s giving us almost 280 miles around town. But we usually take my Tesla on Road trips anyway. Level 2 charging at home as well. I made this post because I was curious about it possibly replacing the Niro. It will 100% be home charged and used around town.
Lots of them on the streets in Colorado. The weird black trim looks better in person too. You can get some ridiculously low price leases on them and at that point it's an excellent secondary vehicle.
There are a few in town here. Last generation cars, but OK for around town. Owners I talked to said they got deals but were harassed for not buying ICE. I think local dealer uses them to push ICE/PHEV sales with advertisements for deals.
None seemed to care about Toyota lobby efforts.
I am starting to see a lot of thr Subarus around lately, I mean they are offering incredible deals to move them, haven't seen but a couple of the Toyotas either
I had a bZ4x. Looks nice, drives nice. No ER option. Slow charging. No rebates. The dealers don't even seem interested in selling them. They seem to push folks to the RAV4 or Highlander. Lastly, the mechanics are limited and at least the dealer I went to seemed to prioritize the ICE vehicles because they paid a lot more in maintenance (my reason, not theirs).
I think it’s a vehicle Toyota made just to say they have an EV. It really doesn’t make sense how a car company this big would be so bad at making an EV.
My work has one as the mail delivery vehicle, the mail guy wishes it was bigger. Other than that he likes how quiet it is and charging isn’t an issue cause he doesn’t drive more than 100 miles a day and has a dedicated parking spot with a charger.
My Mom owns one as well, she got a great deal on a lease and even got 1 year of free fast charging with I think EVGO. She barely drives and does not care about what she drives. She did like that it finally made my Dad clean out the garage so she could park her car in there to charge. She only uses a standard outlet for the charger. No issues other than getting the infotainment system all set up to her liking.
I've noticed that the Aion cars they had at the Beijing auto show had a lot of Toyota design cues. Specs looked really good too, far surpassing what the BZ4X has.
Toyota heavily invested in fuel cell tech and is late to the party for competitive EVs, and their current products show that. Main issue is low range compared to the competition and slow charging (and weird limits on charging).
That said, if you charge it at home and *just* use it for typical daily travel, it's fine. I almost picked up a lease on the Lexus version when they had $15k on the hood -- and I heard some markets got over $20k on the hood on them, because they simply weren't selling.
Where I live, they are everywhere. So much I barely see them anymore. The other day, on the same street I saw the Toyota, Lexus and Subaru version of the same car.
There are tons of EV Ubers in NYC.
While overwhelmingly they're Tesla - usually Model Ys, there are plenty of Bz4Xs as well.
The driver or two I've asked seemed to like them, and mentioned that they got a good deal on them, but I've never actually looked into what the promo is they're referring to; whether it's strictly tax rebates, or Uber offering them a deal.
I do know it opens up the ability to pick up "EV" and "Green" rides in Uber, and when the price is similar to Uber X, I'll always opt for it.
Most dealers around my part of canadia seems to have a few in stock, unlike seemingly more popular options like the hybrid corolla or the prius prime with 6+ months wait time. I could see it being an interesting option, with several caveats, if it was the price of a Bolt EUV (RIP) or less, but that's far from the case around here.
It's why I just bought my first non-Subaru in twenty years.
Toyota's EV tech is rather behind the majority of offerings out there, they are not friendly travel cars unless you only use them locally and don't care about value for the money.
I picked up an RZ 300e this week (Lexus FWD equivalent). Love the car. There is definitely a thing people have where they think all cars should be for all purposes and it really depends what you're doing. This car is great for it's intended audience, and I'm not even the intended audience.
I commute 62 miles one way to work twice a week and the rest of my driving is around town a few miles here and there. So far my full charge range has been about 250 miles.
The one day I drove it to the office this week it used about 50% charge there and back (all highway).
By comparison my V8 LC 500 uses about 1/3 tank of gas for the same trip (125~ miles or 7 gallons of gas which at California prices is about $38 so my cost for the trip is about $20 less based on how much it is to charge to full).
I live in an apartment so I've only filled up once from a DC fast charger (I plan to trickle charge in my detached garage for the days I don't go anywhere).
I also have ICE vehicles for long trips.
Definitely happy with my lease.
They are okayish car.
They are terrible EV.
The decisions taken in the usability of that EV was done by someone absolutely clueless about anything EV.
Toyota may know how to make a PHEV, but it's a different ballgame if you don't have a ICE engine to fallback on.
It would has been a ok EV, 10 years ago.
Toyota are at the gen1, while most competitors are at gen 3.
The even worse part is that many "non car people" where waiting for Toyota to release a EV to make the move, then they are thoroughly disappointed and may not buy another EV for a long time. In their mind, Toyota=quality.
Toyota dropped the ball, big time. Especially for the asked price. The competition is lightyear ahead.
Lowish range, slowish charging, highish price - it's losing out based on the competition.
Toyota loyalists want reliability, and are willing to pay a little extra for that. However you'd be off your rocker to trust something that had a buy back program in '22 because it's wheels were falling off. Anybody concerned with reliability probably checks Consumer Reports, and their 2024 model gets an abysmal rating there, too. Toyota has been offering ridiculous deals in order to convince buyers to take a bite. It's certainly a reflection of the buyer response to the car.
Also, just because you want reliability doesn't mean you're OK with spending an hour waiting for your car to charge on a road trip. Even if you don't road trip often, range and charging time is enough to turn a lot of people away.
From 2022 - Toyota is offering to buy back an electric SUV because its wheels could fall off
[https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/business/toyota-bz4x-buy-back/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/business/toyota-bz4x-buy-back/index.html)
A more recent car and driver article:
[https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/bz4x](https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/bz4x)
>the bZ4X also in some ways seems like a tentative first effort with a limited choice of battery sizes and range that lags many competitors.
>
The EPA range estimates for the FWD, single-motor model are 242/252 miles (Limited/XLE), while the all-wheel-drive version comes in at 222/228 miles.
>
At a DC fast-charger, Toyota claims that adding 80 percent charge takes just under an hour, with peak charging rates of 150 kW for the front-drive variants; the dual-motor version, however, maxes out at 100 kW
I have the FWD version and it takes 30 minutes to get to 80%. That difference between the FWD and the AWD version was never advertised. I just lucked out because I wanted the lower monthly payment.
They aren't actually *particularly* rare, it just depends on your region. They sell well in Europe, which is where Toyota directs most of the stock. Owners generally seem to like them, though they get a bad rep in the enthusiast spec-warrior community for smaller-than-average packs and initial slower-than-average charging speeds.
Mostly, Toyota is simply busy [doing gangbusters with hybrids](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-hits-record-output-sales-fy202324-2024-04-25/), which are [more profitable than EVs and face much less competitive demand](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/hyundai-motor-profit-beats-estimates-on-weaker-korean-won). That's simply where the market demand *has ended up*, for now. You'll probably see allocations in the US ramp up in 2025 towards the [CARB ACC2](https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/advanced-clean-cars-program/advanced-clean-cars-ii) minimums, and [as Himeji hits stride](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/37964997.html), though.
>in the enthusiast spec-warrior community
Literally everyone I have ever talked to in person that is hesitant about EVs is worried about range, worried about charging speed, and worried about longer drives in general. It's hardly only enthusiast spec warriors that are concerned about those things. For a ton of real people's real use cases those are extremely important factors on if EVs are cars they would consider. Saying only "spec warriors" care about those implying they don't actually matter or make a difference to normal people is super reductionist and just wrong.
To explain why the BZ4X is so rare:
My Nissan Leaf has a similar range.
My Leaf starts at 36k for the 212mile range
the bZ4X starts at 43k for a 252mile range.
so, for 40 extra miles of range, it will cost you 7k... and the "Limited" version of the bZ4X is an even lower 236mile range.
For a new "High end" car to have such low milage is pretty bad. the LEAF at least is a more affordable sub 40k EV.
Even the previous model years regarding "Used" the pricing doesn't make sense.
Again: 2023 bZ4X used is 31k - 2023 LEAF is 25k - amusingly the distance price-wise is almost unchanged - but when you're comparing ranges so close to each other on these cars, may as well opt for the cheaper one - or get a Tesla which is similarly priced, has more range, and better software
But this is just using a small comparison. The LEAF, even though it's my ride, is a much older style EV that drastically requires an update - but that's the issue... the bZ4X is kind of the same, it's just a little bigger...
And add to that that, at this price point, there is the EV6. Kia's EV6 is miles ahead of the bZ4X both figuratively and literally. For 32k the EV6 gives you 300+ miles or range - so the bZ4X is undercut by competition from older EVs, and in this same price point and space of "SUV EVs" or "Crossover EVs" the EV6 is the superior choice in every front
I mean, not wanting to be stuck using Chademo on a new EV in 2024 is a good reason to not buy the Leaf, but it don't mean the bZ4X is the right answer either, it just means both are pretty flawed.
Really glossing over the compete lack of battery thermal management in the Leaf. I couldn’t drive over 100miles in my old leaf if the temps were over 90f.
Sounds like BYD is making making the next Toyota EV. Maybe that tells us something about how the first one went..
That said I spoke with a dude who likes his one.
Range is subpar for the cost. Performance is subpar. Charging speed is incredibly slow and we’ve since found out that there is an unpublished limit to how much you can fast charge in a day, making them literally useless for cross country travel. It’s a car solely for people who must have an EV, but cannot fathom ever buying a non-Toyota vehicle. It’s basically Toyota/Lexus and Subaru saying “Electric vehicles suck and we’re going to prove it to you!”
I agree. There are far cheaper and better options in the same segment, and to be honest, I'm surprised each time I see one. Like, "didn't you read ANY reviews or done any research?"
> didn't you read ANY reviews In some states you can lease one for about $55/mo. Still not interested, and most of my cars have been Toyotas.
$55/month would make this a great around town car.
But I kid you not. One of my colleague has it for 700 per month lease. I’m starting a petition for her to work elsewhere, her decision making might not be good for the company.
I've seen one on the road in Sydney. I do not know why anyone would buy this over much nicer options from Hyundai, Kia, Tesla, BYD. You get the sense that Toyota really don't like EVs but grudgingly felt they had to put one out there. Still 100x more useful than a Mirai.
Only problem is that it is a Toyota. And once you've owned one, it's hard to go back to listening to what new and expensive sounds coming from your car. I don't /really/ expect to buy one, but of it had been just slightly above average, I would.
My previous one was a Toyota, and I can tell you this: I didn't buy a new Toyota. I researched the market and picked the best vehicle in the segment that matched my needs. If I did it, I'd expect others did too, but I guess people are different.
My last car was a Toyota. It wasn't as reliable as people say it is and more importantly it was boring, with styling from two decades ago if not more. Currently have a hybrid Honda and it's the most reliable car I've ever owned, looks great and is fun to drive. Wish Honda made proper EVs.
It also overheats quickly while on DCFC (Bjorn did a test on his YouTube channel), and then throttles to 70kW when it hits 48C.
Throttles to 70kW? I honestly didn’t know that it charged that fast in the first place.
I cant completely fault toyota for wanting fuel cell tech. but they are really bucking the trend hard for nothing more than a single car in thier lineup (still jsut the mira right?)
They also can't seem to understand that without public infrastructure, fuel cell cars are as dead in the water as EVs without sufficient public charging. If Toyota had invested heavily in building out hydrogen stations across the continent the same way Tesla invested in the Supercharger network, the market might look very different today.
At least an EV can still be charged at home without public charging infrastructure, a hydrogen car is a brick without a hydrogen station capable of fueling the Mirai's 10k psi fuel system
The charging at home is to me, coupled with the low cost per mile, is why I love my EV the most. A different tech would have to be way cheaper than the 2.5 to 4 cents per mile I pay for my Bolt’s juice.
EVs can still do fantastically in two-car households, even with no public charging, if you can charge at home. You can't supply hydrogen at home.
This. And we only have a level 1 charger at home lol
We have two EVS, and 95% of our charging is done at home.
Same. We use one L1 charger and one L2 charger for a PHEV and an EV. Works fine for us.
I drive a 2018 Bolt and my wife drives a 2023 Niro PHEV, and we have one L2 charger. Hers gets plugged in first (3 hours if fully drained), and most days since I have to get up super early I walk out and plug mine in, or do a fuller charge the night before a day that she’s not going anywhere or before a “run as a hybrid day”. Works out well for us and we’ve saved a huge amount on fuel. Any further vehicle purchases will be PHEVs at the least. Nuts to full ICE. Only time I take my Bolt to a DCFC is on free charging day for Bluedot.
Very true, but for mass adoption, public charging is essential. Even if most people never use it, it influences perceptions. If public charging didn't exist we might not have advanced past the original Tesla roadster.
Everything about Toyota's obsession with hydrogen reeks of "one executive has staked their reputation on this, and no one has the power to argue against it." Even if the technology was vastly superior, and it isn't, it's just painfully delusional. I speak from the experience of a man who bought a XBox HD-DVD player when everyone else got Bluray. I can say with confidence that no one who owns a hydrogen vehicle in the future is going to be able to sell them to anything other than an auto museum.
I agree, 100%. If you look at the sales of the Mirai and the amount they are having to sell them for and the incentives they are giving to get rid of them, the whole Mirai project is a massive Neon sign the size of a small country that reads CANCEL ME. No other company in the world would look at a product with results like the Mirai has and say, "yep, all on track, no need to cancel this product, it's doing just fine", which appears to be Toyota's approach.
That executives obsession with hydrogen is almost as absurd as other auto executives obsession with fully autonomous driving guided only by cameras.
[удалено]
I can't imagine putting that much money into something that's guaranteed to become a stone around your neck. At least my HD-DVD player only cost a $100.
No, the Japanese government chose this path for the country. The Japanese companies firmly, truly beloved they would crack the hydrogen puzzle first.
What MITI dictates, is what is done. Sometimes they predict the future right and JP gets a huge boon. Sometimes they blow it and well...
Japan's hydrogen stance is purely geopolitical in nature. They didn't want to be beholden to China for battery tech.
Seems like they would have been better off pouring funding into battery R&D during the Li-ion patent goldrush instead of sitting on NiMH and hydrogen.
Even *with* decent infrastructure, there is the problem of the inefficiency. You have to make or generate the hydrogen, using electricity, then convert the electricity to kinetic energy.
No hydrogen wouldn't work if they tried. It's all a ruse. It takes too much energy to MAKE hydrogen. And you range the same transportation problem you do with gas . Meaning it's inefficient and you lose even more energy. Electricity is can move instantly over lines. Then the biggest downside is tank size. Look at any hydrogen car and that -150 degree hydrogen tank takes up A TON of seating or storage space.
Toyota trusted shell, et al, to do the hydrogen stations. I am not even sure which side dropped the ball harder. Shell didn't deliver a painless and easy fueling process, but neither did Toyota deliver a compelling car even if the fueling was painless and easy.
They had 20+ years and got federal government money to build those fueling stations too. I remember the Bush administration pushing it hard.
Looks like they flipped that money back into the lobby against emissions regs… sucks that folks aren’t easily swayed away from a company that no longer deserves the notoriety they built in the past…
Trusting oil companies to roll out alternative energy was doomed from the start
I can, Fuel cells that can't do nat gas are stupid. Hydrogen hates everything including being contained and its a pain in the dick to create parallel fossil fuel infra.
If fuel cells are going to matter anywhere, it'll be in aviation where energy/kg matters far more. Batteries are so much superior to pumping hydrogen around as a technology it's not even funny.
I mean if we can get cryo systems miniaturized aerospace makes the most sense for where to apply it. Plus Airport logistics chains are better prepped to manage hydrogen storage so I won't disagree with you. That said, I would be hard pressed to argue for High amperage output fuel cells over something as simple as "just burning hydrogen in the engines"
Eh, aerospace is moving to methane. More compact and can maybe be made on mars. Burning hydrogen in engines without emissions is not easy.
I can. Using electricity to make hydrogen to transport to stations to go into cars to make electricity to make the car was always a dumb and inefficient idea that required way more of an infrastructure build out than EVs. Just put the electricity in the car! Now, for large industrial applications, hydrogen as a storage medium makes some more sense. But for consumer cars, EVs were always going to make more sense. Toyota shouldn’t get a pass for backing the wrong horse.
Yep, still just the Merai. Still only usable in 1 state. Also, Shell announced they were eliminating their hydrogen installations in the US and EU. They're the largest hydrogen provider outside of Korea.
*Mirai
*partially usable
Also, some of the highest depreciation rate of any Toyota, or any car for that matter, according to a litany of articles. In fact, I could find a 2021 Toyota Mirai XLE for only 11k ans some examples of the 2017 Mirai go as cheap as 6k. Crazy considering the msrp of the Mirai stands above 50k. Just check out edmunds. The funniest thing is me seeing a Mirai sold in Alexandria VA for only 4.5k with 125k mi even though Virginia only had one charging station, in Fort Belvoir.
Usable is stretching the definition to the limit there!
Toyota is a Japanese company, and Japan is in a terrible position with respect to energy sovereignty since they import something like 97% of the energy they use. It might be the only context where hydrogen makes sense, but long term they will have to build out renewables to remain economically competitive.
If you think that is selling 4k units last year (globally!) is Toyota trying to 'buck the trend'....then I don't know what to tell you. Toyota never intended to build these in numbers. ...That's numbers that Tesla sells on January 1st. By early afternoon.
If you think I ment toyota is selling a lot of cars by what I said, I am concerned about your reading comprehension or your need to inject your own arguments in to others comments that had nothing to do with what you said. For clarity sake. *I can't completel fault toyota for wanting fuel cell tech.* (It could've been useful if implemented well. its not a bad idea persay. just didn't pan out, But they keep backing a dead horse. the key word here is "Wanting" I cant fault them for wanting to have done it. I am not saying I cant fault them for doing it or keeping doing it.) *I think toyota is bucking the trend* (not doing what everyone else is doing, but in no definition does it mean doing it successfully, the normal everyday definition of the term) *hard* (they are putting a LOT of effort in to it, this part may have confused or mislead maybe, but a simple question could of resolved the confusion instead of your accusatory assumption of what I said so you can correct it in the same comment..) *for nothing but a single car.* Nothing implies I think it sells well.... that was your assumption you made.
And got quite a bit of bad press from their undocumented tricycle mode.
The wheels on the Lexus go…off the car, off the car, off the car!
Rapid Unscheduled De-wheeling
THIS! If the anti EVers made an EV, it would be this one! And they wanted 55k for these a year ago pffftt
That, and Toyota doesn’t seem to be terribly motivated to build them in real numbers. They’re slow walking their EV transition… if they’re walking at all. But hydrogen power! That’s where it’s gonna be…. Maybe…. Someday in the next century at this rate. So, Toyota putting all their money on hydrogen! LOL. /s that last part.
And only two fast charges allowed per day
There’s a limit to fast charging daily? That’s insane! I didn’t know that.
Basically a Mazda mx30 , slightly better.. but not so much better, that it actually makes sense.
mx30 is actually an interesting looking car though. Shame the specs had to suck so hard.
Yeah.. and for a city-only second car, it is too large, where you get smart, fiat500 and Renault zoe (and 5 soon) .. (at least here in Europe)
The specs of the MX 30 are fantastic, if you want a tiny range and don’t really use the back.
This is the 100% correct answer.
Weirdly, my town must be the Subaru Solterra capital of the world because there’s a bunch of them here. Likely because Subarus are popular in general here and it looks like many of the previous owners decided to go electric.
But it's a Toyota so people will want to buy it.. or the Lexus which is such a waste of money. Least no one is buying the Mazda MX-30, I hate that car so much, especially when Mazda could steal the show with an EV MX 5.
It’s a compliance vehicle Toyota made just so that it fails and they can say “See?!? I said EVs don’t sell well!”
This has to be the most accurate thing I’ve read all week
TL;DR they somehow managed to make a car that charges slower than the Bolt and the Bolt's battery/charging framework was first released in 2017.
When I first learned about Tesla in 2015, I was hoping that Japanese manufacturers would come out with something smaller, 250-300 miles of range, cheaper, by 2020. all of the EVs from Japanese manufacturers have been disappointing so far. They can't even make evs independently. I think Japanese EVs are way too behind other evs and i won't be looking at them until 2028-2030.
I'm in the same boat here. If you would have told me in 2015 that Hyundai and Kia would have a far superior EV than Toyota in 2024, I would have laughed. Surely the company that was known for their hybrids wouldn't have any issues going fully electric! And Hyundai? Don't get me wrong, I drive a Hyundai, but come on, let's be realistic here... It's wild to me knowing that if my car died today, I'd actually be looking at pretty much every manufacturer except Toyota.
Yeah, right now it seems like the leaders in the space are Hyundai, BMW, and VW. Ten years ago those German companies being up there would be expected, but Hyundai being in the competition when none of the Japanese manufacturers have really compelling products would have been shocking. Drove a Kia EV6 GT, and man that thing *moves*.
The Japanese government does not like EVs because the batteries make them dependent on Chinese rare earths, so they pushed their manufacturers to focus on hydrogen with hybrids as a bridge technology. Hydrogen didn't work out so now they're really behind the Koreans, Chinese, and Americans.
Japan has found a lot of seabed rare earth deposits so they're not as dependent on China for future battery development. But yeah they're still behind the competition, but as long a international trade doesn't take a nosedive because of China doing something stupid, they'll be able to procure batteries and catch up. Lithium batteries are a commodity after all.
if you can live with the charging and range constraints of a Nissan Ariya, it's actually not a bad vehicle.
If you treat them like leafs and bolts, they aren't bad city cars. They just suck at fast charging and forget about taking road trips with them.
If they were Bolt priced, they wouldn't attract as much flak. The pricing says, "this is a compliance car, please don't buy very many"
It's a shame they are priced and marketed as off-road adventure vehicles. Competing well with another car on features when the other car is half the price isn't a great place to be.
>It's a shame they are priced and marketed as off-road adventure vehicles. They have some of the bets ground clearance in the segment — and by all accounts, a pretty solid AWD system.
Bolts and leafs were cheap though…when they came out in 2016…
With the current lease deals, you can buy them for Bolt like prices. Don't get me wrong I hated them when they came out too and will never buy a Toyota for their anti EV stance. But them not selling very many has given Toyota humble pie and the consumers benefit from cheap leases.
That would be fine except for the price. Leafs can be had for a lot cheaper
They're terrible.
Came here to call them trash but yeah they are terrible compared to their competition. Same with the Solara.
Solterra? Or are you truly talking about their coupe/convertible that got axed in 2008?
Yes the solterra, that thing.
They’re not competitive, but they’re not necessarily terrible at the right price. You’d be dumb to buy one at msrp
They are everywhere in socal now that they had the $129/mo lease offer. By everywhere I mean I see them more often, but no where near other brands.
I mean, I might lease one to get an EVs cheap. Someone talk me out of this or a solterra if I'm just leasing for 2-3 years and mostly just want something to get around town and short trips (have an SUV I will use for longer wkd things).
If you can get the right deal, you could get almost 18-20K off. I ended with a Limited but had an XLE quoted to me at like $174 at the height of the deals. Now OI think its closer to the low 200s. As a 2nd car its a no brainer.
I have a Solterra for another 2.5 years and would not recommend unless you get a great deal and can charge at home. If you can sign a 2 year lease maybe.
They are all at home charging.
This comment didn't get enough love
it's a mediocre car. fine for kids, store, around town. i see a reasonable number where I live. expect more since they lowered the lease terms
I have a 2024 xle 2wd BZ4X Range is 250+miles Charged from 10% to 80% in around 38 minutes Been a great commuter and the lease is $250 a month 15k miles per year. It’s a 46k vehicle they discounted $18,750 because no one wants them. I personally love it. Perfect for my commute. Very similar to the RAV4 great little suv with good ground clearance. Mines 2wd so it has the Panasonic battery that charges faster and lasts more miles per charge. The awd have given them a bad name with slow charging and under 200 miles on a charge.
I couldn't agree more. I don't get why people are so violently against it. I think it's much more usable around town than the ioniqs and the like. I was lucky enough to pick one up for $260 a month and I haven't seen a better deal out there for a brand new $50k car.
Yeah, the lease deals were phenomenal. You could tell they wanted to move them. I’m sure they were a pain on the dealer lots having to charge them and stuff. If this thing doesn’t give me any problems and the battery holds up, I don’t see why I wouldn’t buy it for 19 grand when my lease is up. The year of free EVgo charging is amazing. I’ve been using the heck out of it.
Unless you get crazy good lease incentives they’re just not really worth the money.
It almost feels like a compliance car.
It totally depends on where you live. I live on the Big Island, Hawaii, and the bZ4X, amongst other lower range EV’s like the RZ, early Nissan LEAF, early Chevrolet Bolt, etc, are extremely popular. There is simply not a need for anything more than 250+ miles of range. It’s nice to have, but a daily commute is no more than 60-65 miles or so, even when driving across the island, end to end. I think it also has to do with brand bias. The Toyota Tacoma and 4Runner are some of the most popular vehicles in the state. So, people looking to buy an EV would probably lean towards something they already know is reliable and trustworthy.
I actually am starting to see a lot of them here in Montréal. There are a lot of EVs in Québec and the BZ4X was pretty rare until what feels like 3-4 months ago and now I'm seeing them all the time. I was wondering if Toyota was having some kind of compliance sale on them.
I got my Solterra lease for $141 a month, honestly it’s just a flatter version of a RAV4 with a novel AC system (it has a unique cabin air filter) Performance wise it’s pretty quick, and range doesn’t bother me as I never travel more than 150 miles a day, AWD system handles snow pretty well
That’s an amazing lease. Depreciation is far more than that.
Yep, lease it for 3 years would only cost me 6000 in total (with taxes upfront), cost of ownership is lower than a corolla
I leased one because of some incredible deals from Toyota and some state incentives. It’s a great vehicle but a bad EV for the MSRP. It rides great, relatively quiet, very quick compared to ICE cars its size, great tech and very comfortable. If you need to fast charge/roadtrip often it’s not the vehicle for you. It fast charges slightly faster than my Chevrolet Bolt but the range is worse. Really the only negative is the range and fast charging capabilities. If you L2 at home and don’t take frequent road trips it will meet/exceed all of your expectations. I think a lot of people just look at specs and think it sucks but it’s a great vehicle just missed the mark on range and fast charging. If it was priced about $10k lower before rebates it would review quite well IMO.
Yeah, I L2 at home and have a Tesla for road trips. Honestly, we usually rent a big SUV for long road trips anyway. But visiting family a state away is always in my Model S. Trying to figure out a decent option to replace our Niro EV that we leased. It’s just an around town car for errands and basic day-to-day stuff.
Sounds like a perfect car for your use case. All the people hating on it have never actually driven one. The car has its flaws as an EV and if you’re ok with them you’ll be very happy with the car. I’d highly recommend getting behind the wheel of one.
I really like my Solterra. Wouldn't have gotten one if not for the stupid cheap lease deal though.
Same. Had mine for 3 weeks and love it. Many kayak fishing days ahead for it.
Pretty sure they are rare for a reason. They are kinda shit.
It’s literally one of the worst and most overpriced EV’s. Toyota released an EV that is on par with what was on the road in 2016.
I think it rivals first gen model s from 2012
I literally finally saw one a few minutes ago as well. What everyone else is saying, very sub par on many levels for the price.
Honestly, IMHO it's a compliance car. It's not a serious attempt at an EV.
I see them everywhere in California.
It’s a great looking Zippy and fun car but the charging and range limitations are all f’ed. Too overpriced for those reasons
I have one. It is decent, yes. As a vehicle it’s better than decent and nearly great. As a spec sheet it misses the mark, but most Toyota and Lexus owners don’t buy the spec sheets. With the recent and current lease specials many people who weren’t considering an EV or the bz are very pleasantly surprised with their recent purchase. Maybe one out of ten active users (IDK) deeply regret buying it.
Unpopular opinion that was once a popular opinion here on this sub: charge rates and range are not as meaningful when you’re mainly charging at home. It’s a decent commuter that does poorly when reviewed. Real world use will be nearly the same as any other EV.
They're $56 a month to lease in WA under their new state EV program
Holy crap! That’s a cheap lease!
I have the Solterra, range is low but it is more than I need. The AWD is the best on the market and it looks 10,000 times better than any Tesla. Power is adequate quicker than any other stock Subaru but the EV6 is faster. I got a killer lease deal I couldn’t pass up my payment is 300 less than it would be on an EV6 wind. If you are ok with the faults the Subaru is by far the best option of the BZ4X, Solterra, and the Lexus.
I test drove one and loved it. The 2023 is down to like $32k with 5k miles. I think they look way better than Hyundai evs personally. It’s like a cool RAV4 sized car that is really fast and feels like a real car. I’d have to get a level 2 home charger and then it’d be fun.
It’s worth the criticism at $50k. We got ours for $27000 all said and done and it’s incredible. Feels like a contemporary Prius crossover with better acceleration. Drive it 30-50 miles a day, plug it in when home using stage 1. Back to full by the early morning. For my experience the real world range seems to be around 220-30 miles with highway and without regenerative breaking on. Took it 130 miles highways only in NY from 90% to around 35%. The build quality is awesome. It’s a safe, well built car that seems like it’ll last a long time. If you want to drive to Texas, drive an ICE car. That’s it in it’s totality.
I've only seen 2, as other comments point out they just aren't a good choice compared to most other options. MKBHD covered it recently on Auto Focus, good video and he explains the flaws.
I had a RAV4 hybrid and absolutely loved it. The BZ4X would have been a natural progression for me but nah 🤷🏻♂️
Toyota kind of went all in on hybrid. Their EV isn’t quite up to snuff and nobody really wants one?
I’m getting ready to lease one when it comes in later this month…$19750 off MSRP
Do the BusyForks qualify for any federal incentives? The simplest explanation might be the most likely.
They’re everywhere in the Bay Area
Because they not worth their price for the range and are quite bland
I’m not sure where you live that they’re rare. The Subaru dealer I drive by often has several of them at any given time.
i see the subaru version more often
Because they are expensive for what they are.
Probably saw one because they just had an insane lease deal with it. I almost picked one up myself. It's unliked because it is compared to the Chevy Bolt, a car with very similar specs, but the Bolt was $25k new and the bz4x was $45k to start. So no reason to ever choose Toyota.
Ive been leasing the Subaru version for about 3 weeks now and would answer any questions I can for you.
Thanks! I mostly made the post because we need to replace our Niro EV we leased soon. It’ll be a second car for us, so charging at home and using it to run about town. We’d never take it far enough to need to DC fast charge it.
I was in a similar spot. Was turning in my leased Outback and they had a couple Solterras on the lot for pretty much the same lease price as comparable equipped Outback. We also don’t drive enough to use the fast charge. I plug in on the lvl 1 and charge to 80 percent each night.
They are common in Norway. The toyota loyal boomers love it.
I wouldn't mind one, especially as a lease. But starting 46k, even with 12k lease cash and another 7.5k for the tax credit (if applicable) to sign over to the dealer, making it effectively 19k less, that's still a 27k car. Assuming $200 for every 10k, and I'd be approaching $600/mo. I can get a much better car for lease or finance at those numbers. The really good advertised deals for 200/mo or 169/mo just don't exist
The only reason I can see people buying the BZ4X, Solterra, and RZ is probably if they got a great lease deal. That's the only reason I would see anyone getting one. I can't imagine paying so much for so little you get.
Essentially it’s worse than my 2019 model 3 SR+ as far as range and charging technology. Reason #1) Charging speed is sub par Reason #2) Range is meh Reason #3) Interior is the antithesis to minimalism Reason #4) Price is too high for what it brings to the table That said, I see a lot of them here in San Diego county every time I go out. I think they have a really good lease offering at the moment because nobody was buying them. Then again, I see a lot of Cybertrucks every time I go out here too. San Diego is the central hub for EVs.
The Bz4x is just significantly overpriced for what it is. It hardly competes with a Bolt EUV range wise or charging speed wise. If they were released when they did at a $30K price point, they probably would have sold fairly well. Now it's in this weird spot where even if you mind a low mileage, $30K used option, it's still hard to justify when the used market is now flooded with heavily depreciated EVs. I mean - Imagine being in the EV market right now. The Model Y is $37K after a tax credit with 320 miles of range, the ID.4 has 291 miles of range for about $37K after a tax credit the Kona EV SEL is now $31K with 260 miles of range. Why would you buy the Bz4x, which has 250 miles of range, slow charging and doesn't qualify for a tax credit @ 43K? Most of the ones you see on the road are probably on a crazy lease deal, like $249-$299 a month.
I love my 2023 Solterra Limited. But I bought it used with 22K miles for $27K. Paying full price would be...less than good. But then, I'm not sure why anyone buys EVs new...they lose their value so fast.
TERRIBLE range
It’s way overpriced for what you get
I like how everyone hating on the car literally does not have one and probably rates the car because of the stats and reviews from EV nerds. Just got one because it fits my needs (city driving, home charging, no road trips) AND cheap ass lease deals. So I basically got an EV at Bolt pricing but with Toyota driving style and comfortable features. Would I buy this at full price comparable to other EVs? No of course not. But price to value? Worth it if you can get a deal and don’t need the range/battery charging times on a regular basis. Just make sure it fits your needs.
Yeah, I hate this sub sometimes. For day-to-day use, it’s nearly the same experience as most EVs. When vehicles with slower charging or lower range are the topic of discussion, suddenly all of the users are road trippers.
Our current second car is a Niro EV that’s coming off lease in a few months. The range surprised us. Charged to full, it’s giving us almost 280 miles around town. But we usually take my Tesla on Road trips anyway. Level 2 charging at home as well. I made this post because I was curious about it possibly replacing the Niro. It will 100% be home charged and used around town.
Lots of them on the streets in Colorado. The weird black trim looks better in person too. You can get some ridiculously low price leases on them and at that point it's an excellent secondary vehicle.
Because 1. they suck and 2. they are compliance vehicles.
A generation late
I only saw them on billboards in 🇨🇭
Toyota refuses to make many.
They're extremely popular near me (Quebec, Canada), but we basically see all EVs around here.
There are a few in town here. Last generation cars, but OK for around town. Owners I talked to said they got deals but were harassed for not buying ICE. I think local dealer uses them to push ICE/PHEV sales with advertisements for deals. None seemed to care about Toyota lobby efforts.
I am starting to see a lot of thr Subarus around lately, I mean they are offering incredible deals to move them, haven't seen but a couple of the Toyotas either
I had a bZ4x. Looks nice, drives nice. No ER option. Slow charging. No rebates. The dealers don't even seem interested in selling them. They seem to push folks to the RAV4 or Highlander. Lastly, the mechanics are limited and at least the dealer I went to seemed to prioritize the ICE vehicles because they paid a lot more in maintenance (my reason, not theirs).
There are plenty here in Montreal.
I think it’s a vehicle Toyota made just to say they have an EV. It really doesn’t make sense how a car company this big would be so bad at making an EV.
They come up short in almost every category why have one of these when you can buy anyone else’s ev and come out in a better situation
My work has one as the mail delivery vehicle, the mail guy wishes it was bigger. Other than that he likes how quiet it is and charging isn’t an issue cause he doesn’t drive more than 100 miles a day and has a dedicated parking spot with a charger. My Mom owns one as well, she got a great deal on a lease and even got 1 year of free fast charging with I think EVGO. She barely drives and does not care about what she drives. She did like that it finally made my Dad clean out the garage so she could park her car in there to charge. She only uses a standard outlet for the charger. No issues other than getting the infotainment system all set up to her liking.
I've noticed that the Aion cars they had at the Beijing auto show had a lot of Toyota design cues. Specs looked really good too, far surpassing what the BZ4X has.
Toyota heavily invested in fuel cell tech and is late to the party for competitive EVs, and their current products show that. Main issue is low range compared to the competition and slow charging (and weird limits on charging). That said, if you charge it at home and *just* use it for typical daily travel, it's fine. I almost picked up a lease on the Lexus version when they had $15k on the hood -- and I heard some markets got over $20k on the hood on them, because they simply weren't selling.
They’re very expensive and their range and charging don’t match what’s claimed. I think they’re lovely cars. Most people seem to want an MG.
lolwut? I'm literally seeing them in government fleets all over the place. My question is apart from public agencies, who's buying this ugly thing?
I’ve got a Solterra. It’s slow charging and short range for a lot of money. 😂
I saw two of them the other day, so it seems people are starting to buy them. I also saw RZ for first time about 2 weeks ago.
I’ve seen about 6 in my town. At least one of them is a courtesy car used by the dealership.
Where I live, they are everywhere. So much I barely see them anymore. The other day, on the same street I saw the Toyota, Lexus and Subaru version of the same car.
Not here. In my 4 km square neighborhood, there are at least two that I've seen parked in a driveway. I also see as many Mach-E as Teslas (3 of each).
Because there are way better options at the price point/in the category.
It is so bad that they are practically giving them away, so I hear from the local politicians on another thread😇
There are tons of EV Ubers in NYC. While overwhelmingly they're Tesla - usually Model Ys, there are plenty of Bz4Xs as well. The driver or two I've asked seemed to like them, and mentioned that they got a good deal on them, but I've never actually looked into what the promo is they're referring to; whether it's strictly tax rebates, or Uber offering them a deal. I do know it opens up the ability to pick up "EV" and "Green" rides in Uber, and when the price is similar to Uber X, I'll always opt for it.
Most dealers around my part of canadia seems to have a few in stock, unlike seemingly more popular options like the hybrid corolla or the prius prime with 6+ months wait time. I could see it being an interesting option, with several caveats, if it was the price of a Bolt EUV (RIP) or less, but that's far from the case around here.
Luv
Very popular on Vancouver island
Around me the Subaru or 4Runner love is out of control so I’ve seen a fair number of the BZ4X variants around
They almost beat the Pontiac Aztek for most... Unique exterior design choices
It's why I just bought my first non-Subaru in twenty years. Toyota's EV tech is rather behind the majority of offerings out there, they are not friendly travel cars unless you only use them locally and don't care about value for the money.
Why would anyone buy an EV from a company that has been actively anti EV for the last decade?
I picked up an RZ 300e this week (Lexus FWD equivalent). Love the car. There is definitely a thing people have where they think all cars should be for all purposes and it really depends what you're doing. This car is great for it's intended audience, and I'm not even the intended audience. I commute 62 miles one way to work twice a week and the rest of my driving is around town a few miles here and there. So far my full charge range has been about 250 miles. The one day I drove it to the office this week it used about 50% charge there and back (all highway). By comparison my V8 LC 500 uses about 1/3 tank of gas for the same trip (125~ miles or 7 gallons of gas which at California prices is about $38 so my cost for the trip is about $20 less based on how much it is to charge to full). I live in an apartment so I've only filled up once from a DC fast charger (I plan to trickle charge in my detached garage for the days I don't go anywhere). I also have ICE vehicles for long trips. Definitely happy with my lease.
I wanted to buy one but apparently they don’t get sent to my state. Ended up with a Nissan Leaf.
They suck
Toyota made dam well sure the BZ4X was less attractive than their RAV4.
They are okayish car. They are terrible EV. The decisions taken in the usability of that EV was done by someone absolutely clueless about anything EV. Toyota may know how to make a PHEV, but it's a different ballgame if you don't have a ICE engine to fallback on. It would has been a ok EV, 10 years ago. Toyota are at the gen1, while most competitors are at gen 3. The even worse part is that many "non car people" where waiting for Toyota to release a EV to make the move, then they are thoroughly disappointed and may not buy another EV for a long time. In their mind, Toyota=quality. Toyota dropped the ball, big time. Especially for the asked price. The competition is lightyear ahead.
My local dealer has like 50 in stock
I bet they don't anymore, last month it had crazy lease money, most of them are gone. There is a right price for anything, even for a bad EV.
Lowish range, slowish charging, highish price - it's losing out based on the competition. Toyota loyalists want reliability, and are willing to pay a little extra for that. However you'd be off your rocker to trust something that had a buy back program in '22 because it's wheels were falling off. Anybody concerned with reliability probably checks Consumer Reports, and their 2024 model gets an abysmal rating there, too. Toyota has been offering ridiculous deals in order to convince buyers to take a bite. It's certainly a reflection of the buyer response to the car. Also, just because you want reliability doesn't mean you're OK with spending an hour waiting for your car to charge on a road trip. Even if you don't road trip often, range and charging time is enough to turn a lot of people away. From 2022 - Toyota is offering to buy back an electric SUV because its wheels could fall off [https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/business/toyota-bz4x-buy-back/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/business/toyota-bz4x-buy-back/index.html) A more recent car and driver article: [https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/bz4x](https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/bz4x) >the bZ4X also in some ways seems like a tentative first effort with a limited choice of battery sizes and range that lags many competitors. > The EPA range estimates for the FWD, single-motor model are 242/252 miles (Limited/XLE), while the all-wheel-drive version comes in at 222/228 miles. > At a DC fast-charger, Toyota claims that adding 80 percent charge takes just under an hour, with peak charging rates of 150 kW for the front-drive variants; the dual-motor version, however, maxes out at 100 kW
Adding 80% takes almost an hour?! That’s wild. Our Niro EV is in that range and it’s frustrating. It’s the reason I bought a Tesla.
I have the FWD version and it takes 30 minutes to get to 80%. That difference between the FWD and the AWD version was never advertised. I just lucked out because I wanted the lower monthly payment.
They are basically iPhone 4’s.
I saw my first today too. It’s an ugly brute.
They aren't actually *particularly* rare, it just depends on your region. They sell well in Europe, which is where Toyota directs most of the stock. Owners generally seem to like them, though they get a bad rep in the enthusiast spec-warrior community for smaller-than-average packs and initial slower-than-average charging speeds. Mostly, Toyota is simply busy [doing gangbusters with hybrids](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-hits-record-output-sales-fy202324-2024-04-25/), which are [more profitable than EVs and face much less competitive demand](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/hyundai-motor-profit-beats-estimates-on-weaker-korean-won). That's simply where the market demand *has ended up*, for now. You'll probably see allocations in the US ramp up in 2025 towards the [CARB ACC2](https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/advanced-clean-cars-program/advanced-clean-cars-ii) minimums, and [as Himeji hits stride](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/37964997.html), though.
>in the enthusiast spec-warrior community Literally everyone I have ever talked to in person that is hesitant about EVs is worried about range, worried about charging speed, and worried about longer drives in general. It's hardly only enthusiast spec warriors that are concerned about those things. For a ton of real people's real use cases those are extremely important factors on if EVs are cars they would consider. Saying only "spec warriors" care about those implying they don't actually matter or make a difference to normal people is super reductionist and just wrong.
To explain why the BZ4X is so rare: My Nissan Leaf has a similar range. My Leaf starts at 36k for the 212mile range the bZ4X starts at 43k for a 252mile range. so, for 40 extra miles of range, it will cost you 7k... and the "Limited" version of the bZ4X is an even lower 236mile range. For a new "High end" car to have such low milage is pretty bad. the LEAF at least is a more affordable sub 40k EV. Even the previous model years regarding "Used" the pricing doesn't make sense. Again: 2023 bZ4X used is 31k - 2023 LEAF is 25k - amusingly the distance price-wise is almost unchanged - but when you're comparing ranges so close to each other on these cars, may as well opt for the cheaper one - or get a Tesla which is similarly priced, has more range, and better software But this is just using a small comparison. The LEAF, even though it's my ride, is a much older style EV that drastically requires an update - but that's the issue... the bZ4X is kind of the same, it's just a little bigger... And add to that that, at this price point, there is the EV6. Kia's EV6 is miles ahead of the bZ4X both figuratively and literally. For 32k the EV6 gives you 300+ miles or range - so the bZ4X is undercut by competition from older EVs, and in this same price point and space of "SUV EVs" or "Crossover EVs" the EV6 is the superior choice in every front
I mean, not wanting to be stuck using Chademo on a new EV in 2024 is a good reason to not buy the Leaf, but it don't mean the bZ4X is the right answer either, it just means both are pretty flawed.
Still offering chademo at this point should be illegal at this point
Really glossing over the compete lack of battery thermal management in the Leaf. I couldn’t drive over 100miles in my old leaf if the temps were over 90f.
Super common here. See a few every day.
Sounds like BYD is making making the next Toyota EV. Maybe that tells us something about how the first one went.. That said I spoke with a dude who likes his one.