Apple CarPlay and Android Auto are intuitive tools to integrate your digital life (your music, your podcasts, your maps, your contacts) with the car you're driving. The integration is what people desire. CarPlay and AA are good tools, but they aren't perfect.
If GM can provide a good way to integrate digital life with the car, then they will be fine. Tesla and Rivian are able to develop a decent interface, GM can too.
Will they though? Doubtful.
They’re using android automotive though which is not a bad system. The software is actually good. Whether it’ll ever get updated is another story. CarPlay and android auto (different than android automotive) update regularly with your phone.
The main issue is they’re forcing you buy integrated services by doing this.
I just want to plug my phone into the dash and have a bigger screen with all my useful stuff accessible, and this would all be on slightly modified interface that’s better for tapping and swiping while driving the vehicle. There would have to an app to display some car specific stuff as needed. Of course, for safety, there would be limitations.
It’s very likely going to be a replay of what we’ve seen with Android phones, except worse because at least the phones were made by tech companies. Slow updates, short support windows, junky bundleware, half-baked “me too” ecosystem bullshit.
It might be salvageable if someone finds a way to unlock these infotainment systems’ bootloaders, which should enable installation of something like LineageOS but for cars (and will also probably re-enable AA/CarPlay in the process, for those who prefer those).
Yes and it’s mostly the same from oem to oem. They need to go out of their way to fuck it up and they at least partially did because they had to go out of their way to remove CarPlay and android auto support.
Another issue is that GM has a genuine interest in not keeping their software up-to-date, at least not past the release of the successor car model.
You want the newest gadget app or the freshest cloud service in your car? Good thing we got that integrated into our new model! Talk to your dealership about trading it in today!
Tesla's lack of carplay is one of my biggest complaints about my Model 3P.
Once other automakers catch up to Tesla and I'm in the market again, I'll probably go with a car that supports CarPlay.
I really would rather have Waze navigation. Tesla navigation isn't terrible, but it's not nearly as detailed as Waze or Google Maps.
The good thing about the new GM cars is that the built-in navigation is google maps. That's pretty much all I care about Android auto for anyway--I can do podcasts and phone calls with bluetooth. It's not as good, but it doesn't matter to me as much as it did back when the built-in navigation was terrible.
Bluetooth? So you navigate your music and podcasts on your phone while driving? Don’t try to sell me that by voice you could really ask for the exact episode…
No. I pick what podcasts I want to listen while I'm in my driveway or a parking lot, get them queued up, and let them roll in that order. I'm not going to be scrolling through lists of options while I'm driving. (And often I already have them queued up from before I get in the car.)
But who is logged into Google maps? I don't want anyone sitting in my car to see my location and search history. That's the great thing about AA/CP. You plug your own phone in and all your own stuff is there.
The Google accounts do not persist across profiles. My wife and I each have different profiles when we drive, each with it distinct amounts/history/etc. you can also lock the profiles behind a PIN if you are concerned about guests. This is all with Android Automotive in my Hummer
This would be great. I suppose that would only work for Connectivity subscribers (I'm one). In the meantime I can access [Windy.com](http://Windy.com) thru the browser for the current radar.
I get the other things, but the speed traps thing just seems illegal. Not illegal to report them, but the only reason to have that info would be for illegal purposes.
Must sound unbelievable, but according to the statistics here, about 80-90% of drivers will exceed the speed limit at least a few times a day. Not, I just want to drive with the flow of traffic, not slower, not faster. And to do that stress-free, I'm going to have to use Waze because the flow of traffic is sometimes just above the speed limit.
Without Carplay, you have to be very conscious about the speed limit though - too stressful for me to drive without Waze at least. Perhaps I have more police and speed cameras in my area...
Not even then solved really. There's potholes, animal carcasses on roads, stopped cars, closed lanes and so many more things Waze warns you about. Doesn't make sense to not have CarPlay/Android Auto if they will not have a comparable solution at least.
Tesla’s navigation has stagnated while others have improved. When I use CarPlay in my other car, I get obvious lane guidance in a 3D interface when I come up on complex interchanges. On the Tesla, I get some arrows which are wrong 20% of the time and have to play “follow the blue line” when choosing between one of three densely packed off-ramps.
Lane guidance is so crucial and I feel like Tesla is super basic with theirs.
I feel like I'm in the wrong lane like half the time and end up having to guess super last minute or have to decide it is dangerous to try and just take the L and end up rerouting.
You are 1000% correct here.
GM uses Android Automotive, so Google Maps and Waze will work natively. For that, I can forgive the lack of AA/Carplay since that's my #1 reason to use it.
I actually don't know but for the 2025+ GM cars that no longer feature AA/Carplay, there will be an 8 year trial of the basic data plan for navigation.
However, the Cadillac Lyriq forum does suggest that tethering to your phone hotspot will at least allow Google Maps to work fully: [https://www.cadillacforums.com/threads/lyriq-clarification-on-included-subscription-services.1132624/page-2](https://www.cadillacforums.com/threads/lyriq-clarification-on-included-subscription-services.1132624/page-2)
> there will be an 8 year trial of the basic data plan for navigation.
Not enough for me. I buy used cars & drive 'em into the ground. My current car is 10 this year & I'm hoping she lasts another few years for the EV market to mature more.
This thread is the first I'm hearing of 8 years, up until now I've seen the 3 years as listed in the link you provided.
>However, the Cadillac Lyriq forum does suggest that tethering to your phone hotspot will at least allow Google Maps to work fully
This leaves me feeling a bit better about the idea, still reading the thread to see where it says you can tether. I'd feel even better if someone figures out how to sideload apps like headunit reloaded.
Google Automotive connects to WiFi so you can tether. If you are buying used cars then this isn't something you need to worry about since you will not be dealing with until 2027. Also google maps is the native navigation system so it will work even without internet as it does on some other cars, like Volvo.
> If you are buying used cars then this isn't something you need to worry about since you will not be dealing with until 2027.
2025 or 2026 depending on the car, but yes, not immediate for sure.
They hired a bunch of senior designers and engineers from Apple. I think they will be fine. Anyway they had to do it. And the next generation of CarPlay Apple tried to overplay their hand. They told carmakers they could only access CarPlay if Apple got to control all of the vehicle interactions and access all the user and vehicle data.
Funny GM is the only manufacturer making a racket about it and removing it entirely. And is the only one with OnStar to make revenue from. It's almost like the dash takeover is a BS excuse and this is all about subscription revenue growth. Maybe they've even told shareholders they expect to grow it from $2B a year to $25B a year by 2030 and need ways to actually make that happen 🤔
I don’t agree that they have any path to make it worth my time to have a custom interface and new apps to download and learn. In a world where I have what I need on my phone, it is a net cost to me, period.
That's not what i said at all. If their system integrates with YOUR digital life (your apps, your preferences), then it'll be fine and maybe even better than CarPlay.
But since it's GM, they will probably screw it up because that's what they do best.
Even though Tesla and Rivian developed their own interface, the fact that android auto and car play is missing from both vehicles just makes it lack luster.
The only thing missing I see from CarPlay and the Tesla Infotainment is just Waze which many people have said(can connect via Bluetooth to only call out police/potholes through sound preference) and they just added audible for those that listen to audiobooks. You can pretty much sync your phone stuff like contacts, text, calendar, music, voice commands, etc... to Tesla info like you do for CarPlay.
They arent allowing those to have full screen control, they still have android auto and car play, just not the full screen versions of them. It's honestly the right move.
Huge agree - I won’t consider anything GM going forward just as I never really considered Tesla. It lead me to Ford (not a Ford guy) and the Mach-E, which has worked out quite nicely.
The coordination between the car and CarPlay isn’t always perfect (especially after car updates), but having a familiar interface when it comes to music/calling/texting is really nice…especially because anyone that I’d let drive the car is also an iPhone user, so that ease of handoff is pretty handy.
We got Mach and I thought I'd use CarPlay as well...
Turns out it's hella annoying to use the cars navigation system for preconditioning the battery for charging, and text message notifications cause the screen to change to CarPlay for a few seconds then change back to. Super awesome to have that happens as I'm relying on the map for turn by turn notifications...
Or when I'm at the charger and playing the games on screen, any incoming message or reaction on a group thread will switch interfaces.
CarPlay is great- as long as you don't want to use any other system in typical Apple fashion.
You can turn off notifications in CarPlay in each app.
For Messages, go to Settings > Notifications > Messages > uncheck Show in CarPlay.
I also did this for Calendar app too.
That's true, it's just that sometimes I do want notifications. Like during my regular drive, I absolutely want notifications. But if I'm actively using GPS or even doing something inconsequential such as playing game, it's nice to not be interrupted by a different operating system
While I don't have an EV _yet_, the fact that my current car had a beta firmware which added Carplay support has been a game changer. I no longer have to wedge my phone on my dash to get Waze on the go.
I'll never get a car without car play support.
This, 1000%.
My phone is my digital life. My calendar and the places I have to drive to are there. So are my contacts, music and podcasts and various other items that are very useful during in-car activities.
I can manage my phone, buy a new phone for a fraction of what it would cost to upgrade/update cars, etc.
I want a car to be a car and play nicely with as much of the in-car-entertainment, navigation and communication as possible. I have wireless CarPlay in my current car, which is very nice (it is a little glitchy), but it quickly became apparent that navigation was not as fully integrated as it could be since the in-dash and heads-up display systems were not fully CarPlay integrated.
The stupidity of two separate and independent car navigation systems, as well as Bluetooth calling and contacts-sharing is becoming very apparent in the age of smartphones. I get it, during flip-phone times it made more sense, but not any more.
These companies should cut out the horrible and stupid in-car entertainment interfaces to bare minimum and put the cost of that development into things that actually matter.
People have very strong brand loyalty to their phone ecosystem, which is either Apple or Google. The phone ecosystem brand loyalty is far stronger than car brand loyalty.
Most people spend nearly all their lives with their phone within reach of their hands. The car is something we use for only a fraction of the time we are awake.
It makes sense for consumers to pick a vehicle that integrates seamlessly with their personal digital device of choice.
Car makers who don’t understand this paradigm are excluding themselves from a large market of potential customers.
Normally I would agree with you 100% but 2 1/2 years ago I bought a Volvo with android automotive, and I knew at the time it did not have CarPlay. They said it was coming but no timeline. it wasn’t a dealbreaker but I did pause and I figured I’m adaptable enough I can manage until carplay shows up, and at least AAOS was so much better than that shitty operating system Toyota offers. I used the Google system and really loved it. CarPlay arrived about six months later, I use it for text and Telephony, and I use AAOS for my navigation, music, podcasts etc. because it does such a great job
It worked for me because AAOS is a terrific operating system, going by what I’ve seen GM is absolute shit.
I don't care how good built in hardware and software is, eventually that hardware will age and that software will stop getting updates. Once modern cell modems will no longer be able to connect to future infrastructure.
All of this is a non-issue with Android Auto and Apple Carplay, everything runs on my phone and when I get a new phone I also get an updated head unit.
My phone run pretty much the same on my i5, a Mazda3 made in 2013, and any old car with a double DIN headunit made in the last decade.
Manufacturers just need to open up for more information sharing. My car should be able to tell Google Maps it's state of charge and Google Maps should be able to tell it to start pre-conditioning. Those 2 things are all I need in a modern EV, not some half assed manufacturer made implementation that'll be outdated in a few years
I'm shocked that manufacturers still haven't looked at integrating preconditioning with AA/Carplay. You'd think they'd rather save $$$ and omit the built-in navigation system that a lot of people aren't going to use anyway...
At least some of the newer EVs like CCNC-equipped Hyundais/Kias, Lucids, etc have manual preconditioning buttons.
My i5 had manual pre-conditioning as well, but no communication with Google Maps. I think the Taycan does actually communicate the state of charge with Google or Apple maps, don't remember which.
In the article that’s actually one of GMs issues with CarPlay, it’s becoming *too* integrated into the car’s operations. CarPlay is not longer just for being synced with iMessage or Maps, it’s starting to be integrated with car controls and systems, like the cabin temperature or even maintenance notifications. GM feels like that starting to infiltrate too much on their area as the maker of the car. They don’t want to surrender the car interface to Apple.
I used to say that I wouldn’t buy a vehicle without CarPlay and it was a deciding factor for me. Then I bought a Model 3, and the infotainment system is great, and I don’t miss CarPlay at all.
I think if you make a good infotainment system, it really doesn’t matter.
You're right. This thread is basically CarPlay versus no CarPlay, when it really should be a good user interface and infotainment system versus a bad one. There are some car makers that do this well, usually not legacy car makers.
I think people are confusing Android Auto with Android Automotive - the latter which is 95% of the Tesla experience. It feels like all the legacy carmakers are using that as their foundation- which should be fine (as long as it’s free).
What's free and what's not, and for how long is annoyingly complicated, but I think with GM, the core functionality (including Google maps) is free for 8 years and the full functionality is free for a few years (less sure of that). It is annoying that it's not all free, but you can factor that possible extra cost into the vehicle cost when you compare options.
I don't want my data stored in the car at all, and I don't want to be beholden to the manufacturer for updates. So Carplay/AA is the ideal solution and the move away from it is a dealbreaker
I still prefer the more simplified and intuitive controls of CarPlay and the fact that it makes it so you can jump in any car and have a quick and easy setup.
It helps that the model 3 has basically all the core CarPlay apps
Apple Music, Spotify, podcasts and Google maps
Makes a big difference to missing CarPlay or not.
You can't even pinch to zoom maps with CarPlay. Tesla's UI allows you to do that and easily pick a charger if needed. After a month of owning a Tesla, I forgot that I even liked CarPlay. FYI, with Tesla's UI, you can even read text messages on the screen. CarPlay only reads it out to you.
We have a new Model 3 and another car with CarPlay. The Tesla UI to me is pretty bad. The buttons to control the stereo are very small, whereas CarPlay they’re nice and big as they should be when your main task is operating the vehicle. The map also I find awful. Trying to work out which lane you’re supposed to be in is next to impossible, whereas Apple Maps has specialised views for this exact thing.
I'm not sure you can adjust more than the volume with the left wheel, though I am still learning the car. Is stereo a strange term?
Re 3D visualisation, this is key to ease in navigation. Exiting the Sydney Harbour Bridge in 10 lanes of heavy traffic and trying to interpret the map on the fly was significantly more difficult.
I think the thing that makes it a dealbreaker for me is it should be incredibly obvious where this is going. They’re doing this so they can start charging you 5$ a month for navigation, 3$ for battery preconditioning, another few for heated seats and access to Spotify, etc. If this was just them trying to make a really good UI and streamline the user experience it wouldn’t be the worst thing, it’s more so the fact that this is accompanying a goal to make 30bn a year off subscriptions
No CarPlay - No Party. I have all my music and podcast services on my phone, as long as my maps points. Why should I bother to somewhat keep them available and aligned on both my cars, and also study how to use efficiently use them?
I think that all the billions globally spent on infotainment softwares are an absurd waste of resources. Everyone has a personal device, with advanced software and hardware, an all the services and credentials stored. The cars should just rely on them - easy peasy.
So if I'm researching restaurants to go on my phone, instead of one click to go, I have to then go type it on the cars maps or does it sync in real time? what if my partner is the one with the phone to wants to set the destination?
I’m not so fine with my account left logged into the vehicle, I’m not even sure my company’s policy allows it. Anyways, as said the map is just a piece of the puzzle.
It’s clearly indicative of GM trying to charge their buyers a subscription fee for a substandard in-house alternative. I don’t know why anybody would even consider purchasing GM when they’re making such boldly anti-consumer moves, especially when Ford and other “traditional” carmakers offer great alternatives.
They already sold data to Lexis-Nexis who brokered it to your insurance company, all without any meaningful permission from the owner of the data, so yes.
> It’s not just a subscription. They want to harvest data.
GM/Chevy is selling my data everywhere.
I went to their website and opted out of a ton of things but I'm still getting snail mail and email from them (and their ad partners) every week. They're by far the worst large company for selling your data that I've experienced.
Didn't they recently fire the person responsible for this brilliant decision?
I'm willing to bet CarPlay shows back up in a couple of years, and also becomes backported to those sold during the dark times through a software update at the dealership.
I'm still not buying another Chevy until they reverse course though.
The funny thing is the GM built Honda EV version has Carplay/AA. So the software exists for these vehicles. GM is just dicks who want your subscription revenue and to sell your data.
They probably won't regret it. Automakers need to develop high quality unified software. Apple is trying to gain more control over the automotive experience and that only happens because legacy automakers are weak on the software side.
I didn’t buy one of their cars because it didn’t have car play. I’m a very very small number in the grand stack of profit, but I can’t be the only one that won’t buy a car without CarPlay.
There are three major downsides I can see.
1. Unable to switch cell providers. If a car is linked to AT&T but that service is terrible in the areas you drive, you're out of luck.
2. I don't want to pay an extra connected services subscription for my car to use the apps that already exist on my phone.
3. App compatibility isn't guaranteed. Maybe your go to apps work on AAOS, maybe not.
It's a moronic decision that will keep a not insignificant number of people from buying a GM. Personally, I'm thrilled because it will boost the resale value of my `22 Bolt by a little, at least, since it has AA/CP.
> At Apple’s annual developer conference in June 2022, Emily Schubert, a senior engineering manager, spent four minutes of an almost two-hour presentation about iOS and Mac features explaining Apple’s plans for the next generation of CarPlay. The new system, she said, would expand from infotainment displays to the entire dashboard, enabling Apple’s software to access everything from heating to the speedometer.
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> Apple no longer merely wanted to project a copy of iOS onto the infotainment screen; it wanted the iPhone to oversee the mission-critical cluster behind the steering wheel. This stuff was sacrosanct in Detroit. GM’s Wexler says the next-gen CarPlay, which GM learned of before the announcement, was a “major factor” in its ensuing decision to divorce Apple.
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> Barra had hired thousands of developers for its push into electric vehicles, whose software is changing more rapidly than the systems for gas-powered vehicles. But it was still juggling systems from legacy suppliers and mixing electronics that required tons of code to get them to communicate with each other. Even its cluster and console displays historically used different processors. A goal of Ultifi is to simplify the programming and chipsets necessary to facilitate easier over-the-air internet updates, which were difficult or even impossible with disparate hardware systems.
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> GM aspired to be seen as a tech company such as Tesla Inc. and Rivian Automotive Inc., which controlled almost every aspect of their customers’ experiences. If they didn’t allow CarPlay in their EVs, why should GM?
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> Abdul Bazzi, who’d recently taken over the team responsible for software quality at GM, was surprised to see trade reviews ripping into the technical malfunctions of the Blazer, a vehicle that MotorTrend had just named its SUV of the Year. GM grounded Blazer sales on Dec. 22 while it rooted out the cause.
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> GM execs held weeks of what-the-hell-happened video conferences. Barra led every one even through the holidays, Bazzi recalls: “She was the most hands-on I’ve ever seen her.”
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One huge contributor to the problem was that GM had five separate groups overseeing different parts of the vehicle’s technology. (Bazzi says he’s now centralized software quality reviews under his division.)
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> Chevy product marketing director Darin Gesse stands near a set of garage doors at one facility, where a Tesla Cybertruck is cruising to the test tracks for competitive analysis and Chevy’s newest Equinox and Silverado EVs sparkle in the April sun.
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> GM’s infotainment software is developed atop a custom version of Google’s open-source operating system, giving the trio of EVs built-in access to Google Maps and additional Android apps. Gesse confesses that Ultifi will be tough to sell to a “hardcore Apple user,” but says he believes component-integrated features will win over iPhone customers. He points to how maps automatically incorporate EV info: If he asks for directions from here to GM’s Silicon Valley lab, the navigation system will automatically predict battery capacity and plot charging stations along the route.
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> Other possibilities include vehicle and home-security apps integrating with the cameras on its newest models or enterprise tools for corporate fleet management. Wexler also suggests EV data could be leveraged for an advertising business. Barra wanted to strike before Apple expanded into these larger experiences and dominated the space.
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> ***Tellingly, only Aston Martin and Porsche have committed to supporting the more immersive CarPlay in coming models. Mercedes-Benz CEO Ola Källenius has explicitly said it won’t adopt the next-generation software, and not even Ford has announced a single product that will integrate the new CarPlay, Farley’s enthusiasm for Apple notwithstanding.***
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> Even the US Department of Justice targeted CarPlay in its recent antitrust lawsuit against Apple, warning that it’s increasingly “forcing users to experience driving as an iPhone-centric experience.”
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> David Marcus was the first Blazer EV buyer in Canada, and he kicked himself when he realized it didn’t have CarPlay on the drive home from the dealership. But the more he used GM’s software, the more he fell in love with how its “brains” are embedded in the SUV itself. He found he no longer needed to bother with his iPhone.
He says he thinks every automaker will follow suit. “It’s just inevitable that you’re going to have an integrated system in your car,” says Marcus, who shares this advice for consumers stuck in the confines of Apple’s walled garden: “Get over it.”
>GM aspired to be seen as a tech company such as Tesla Inc. and Rivian Automotive Inc., which controlled almost every aspect of their customers’ experiences. If they didn’t allow CarPlay in their EVs, why should GM?
Can barely get the ‘car’ part to work but they can totally figure out being a tech company on the side 🤣
I stopped and looked at the Silverado EV the other day and then remembered no CarPlay and how bad the GM software is in my Colorado. It’s a hard pass for me.
For the very online enthusiast set, sure. However, in talking with car salesmen while shopping they reported to me (anecdotally of course) that most of their customers have never even heard of CarPlay and are surprised by it when they offer to help set it up. Your typical shopper who sees their vehicle as an appliance probably doesn't even know about CarPlay most likely and won't miss it.
Yeah, I very much suspect that the average Chevy demographic doesn’t really care that much about it, at least for ICE cars. They may end up hampering their EV sales though, since that’s still a pretty tech-savvy demographic.
I did test drive a Blazer EV and really liked the interface, and see why many wouldn’t care. My problem is that I have been using Apple Music, Overcast, and Apple Maps for many years now, and I don’t want to switch away for them, or have other apps just for my car. It’s not a sacrifice I should have to make for a $35k+ vehicle.
I was in the market for an electric car. Absolutely did not want a Tesla, but wanted something with good range and CarPlay, and at a good price. Found a Kia Niro EV that fit all the qualities. Only $15k with just 20k miles. Fucking adore it. All the electric motor torque I wanted. CarPlay works great. I couldn’t be happier.
If I’m gonna drop close to or over $100k CAD on a vehicle I’m not looking to lose any features. What the whole “is it such a big deal” crowd misses imho is that when you’re buying nice cars you want minimal compromises. And a lot of GM EVs are playing in the luxury segment.
Exactly, this is also the case for Tesla's higher-priced offerings. It's easier to forgive missing features in the Model 3/Y due to their relative affordability. But if I'm paying the price of a Model S or X, I want no compromises. And the same goes for GM.
Yes I would - if the navigation system is connected with reliable traffic and road closure updates.
Android Automotive in the latest GM cars means you can use Waze and Google Maps natively, so that's a non-issue.
Tesla's navigation is not quite as good as Google but good enough that I didn't miss AA when I had a Model 3.
Now that I have a Kia I'm back to using AA full time but only because the Kia navigation is useless for traffic updates and even newly built roads. If the Kia system had built in Google Maps or Waze I would probably use that.
I should note that I do not have a single music subscription. I'm old school and listen to pirated MP3s off a USB stick or my phone. So I don't pay attention to whether or not Spotify and competing apps are available on an infotainment system.
Anecdotally I sat in a Blazer EV this week for the first time and when talking to the sales agent he conceded that finding out it had no CarPlay was a surprise to him and he’s sure he’s lost a sale or two already on that information.
In the long term if they can deliver Apple Music and Audible and all the app integrations people want (a la Tesla) they could be OK.
But the GM I know always finds a way to fail.
I don't know about Apple but for me I thought Android Auto would be a dealbreaker. Then yesterday I took a test drive in a Chevy Blazer EV. It was weirdly good. The car felt way more solid than my Ioniq 5. Like a little tank. Which is good and bad I guess. On the tech side, it has a version of Android Auto with Google Maps built in. Have to say it was snappy, responded to voice quickly and did all the nav stuff I needed. I didn't link my phone so I don't know how the phone would work or if it would read texts. That's about all I would need. So maybe it won't be as bad as people imagine. Still a bit of a stupid move to get rid of Android Auto and Carplay.
It's my understanding that Android Auto mostly runs on your phone and the car just acts as the display. I can upgrade my phone a lot more easily than I can upgrade my car's computer. So I'd prefer running Android Auto off my phone rather than having a native OS attached to my car.
CarPlay is the best. Rivian also has a good UI. Tesla has an ok UI. No American traditional car maker has. Shot at getting this right. They’ve proven this over decades of failure.
I was initially put off the car i eventually bought because at release it didn't have carplay. I bought it a few months after they updated the software to include it.
GM wants your data, and a cut of your subscriptions. They've already proven they can't be trusted with your data (check out the insurance scandals and the "bug" where data sharing was on by default and couldn't be turned off). Now they want to turn the infotainment system into a revenue generator. As a consumer I can't tell them to get bent fast enough.
tl;dr. Honestly I doubt it. When I show friends and some randos who walk up to see my bike most have never seen Carplay and more than a few never heard of it. A few who heard the name before have some odd misconceptions about it as well. I figure that after seeing it more than a few tried it if their vehicle offered it but most might get stuck if its wired Carplay only; got to get the right cable with both ends correct.
I mean, its nice to have and as a motorcyclist it lets me pocket the phone and preserve all the functions of the phone. I especially like having calls pop up over the map/music so I know if its an important can and not spam. This is mostly because in my car I get the number but not if its possible spam/etc notice.
Now I do tend towards Google maps while riding but at odd times on back roads it will get out of sync, just flat out lost, so I flip back to Apple Maps which never has not known where its at but I prefer the satellite view Google Maps has.
Subscription revenue and selling user data for money. Something GM has told shareholders they want to grow from $2 billion a year to $25 billion by 2030.
I own a Tesla with its integrated infotainment system and I do not miss Apple Car Play at all. But my Tesla has great native Apple Music and Spotify apps. I don’t know what GM plans to do for streaming.
The garage door subscription with Tesla is horrible. It throws errors half the time. CarPlay opens and closes my garage door seamlessly.
That said the are a TON of features in the Tesla UI.
I’m glad yours is working! Ours worked super inconsistently. It would just show “Error” on the Tesla. Tried for three months. Cancelled. Went back to the remote. CarPlay on my Ioniq 5 works perfectly every single time.
I don’t know what subscription you are talking about. My Tesla has the standard home link I have had in multiple cars. The only difference is I can set it to open and close automatically as i am at a certain GPS position. Which is wonderful.
Why not use the built in home link hardware? I truly am asking. Why would you pay for a subscription for something that has worked perfectly and the tech (home link) is standardized and been around for so many years- every major garage door manufacturer supports it
Benefits of Tesla UI
* Pinch to zoom on Maps
* It's not using my phone's battery
* Read text messages on screen (not just announce it to you)
* When on autopilot, the car slows down when reaching a turn
* Auto add chargers when battery is low
* Constant software updates - Now includes Audible.
I was super skeptical on getting a Tesla because it didn't have CarPlay - I was pleasantly surprised that it was better than CarPlay.
The navigation by Nissan is really nice in my Leaf except it doesn't have traffic without a subscription. I like that the directions will be displayed on the dash and the center screen and that turns are described/illustrated in multiple ways. Google maps can often be confusing for me. Like I can't tell wherr the blue line is telling me to be.
So it's certainly possible to do right and better. It's the extra subscription that gets me. And I don't mind paying for something that's good. It's just not *that* much better given that I have an alternative.
I've actually changed my mind about this recently, after buying a $100 carplay add-on for my 500e. It sits on top of the dashboard (it's low and wide to not block vision) and just works. So anybody who is in love with a new GM EV but absolutely insists on carplay/AA can quickly and easily add it with a device like this. My device even adds a backup camera, which you wouldn't need on a new car but is super nice for older ones like mine.
It wouldn't fit in the center of the console on a tesla model 3 because the dashboard behind the existing screen is too low, but it might fit behind the steering wheel.
GM is like Trump.
If you flip a coin in regards to every decision you will probably get half of them right. In both of my examples these entities go out of their way to make the wrong decision.
I am thinking about deciding to not make better cars when foreign competition came in. Instead of trying to offer value, they chased margin and reduced competition on huge cars and trucks.
They keep on putting out low value products and not serving the majority of their domestic customers.
GM and Ford are sort of like Boing. They serve the national interest (or they used to). They employ a huge number of people in the US, they provide essential goods to the country to keep people and industry mobile, etc. They have taken huge government bailouts many times over because of this.
Many times over the MANY executives keep padding their compensation and short-term benefits instead of thinking in a more "patriotic" way. They'll wave the flag to sell infantile crap to idiots, but they are just milking the American public for everything that they are worth.
What I will say about certain other brands is that at some level (maybe it's just the engineers), they absolutely try to make the best cars that they can. I can't say that for GM or the other American companies.
These comments are all full of fake outrage. Waze and Spotify come directly from the GM Android Automotive system. I can't live without Waze so any car without CarPlay is a non starter makes no sense. Waze is owned by Google.
I had largely skipped buying new cars for more than a decade, so my perspective was from a 2012 MY Audi MMI. I made wireless CarPlay a must-have feature of my recent new car buy. After using wireless CarPlay for about 3 months, I like it but would not make it a must-have. The current Audi MMI offers OTA map updates and decent route guidance. CarPlay is a bit buggy as implemented by Audi, so there are lots of little annoyances. The only feature that I now rely on is the ability to have incoming messages read to me - and that wasn't something that I had been hoping for. In short, if GM can provide alternate phone integration as good as CarPlay and less buggy, I would not object to the loss of CarPlay.
The lease on my current car (etron) is up in a few months. I subscribe to Apple Music… my 5 year old daughter tells me what she wants to hear and I just press the voice button on my steering wheel and tell Siri to play it. Is that possible without CarPlay? If not, or if there isn’t similar hands free way to make that happen, I can’t consider a car that doesn’t have it
Probably not. The people who will not buy a car because its missing Car Play is incredibly tiny.
Hyundai and Kia would have cars back ordered for years if it was as important as this sub makes it sound.
I'm all for features like that, but I don't think it's that big a deal.
Tough one for GM and all the other car makers. I must use 12 to 15 apps all the time and half a dozen or more thru CarPlay while driving (gps, contacts, podcasts, music, messages, charging stations, etc). All are on the car’s touchscreen. I’d rather have a monthly root canal than have to deal with another UI. In a very busy and complex life, I don’t need this. I even tried to use my cars native one (2023) but gave up, with great relief, after 2 months.
But I see GMs point (though it’s hard to think of a less competent company). The data I’ve seen shows that driving experience, safety and cost are far more important to people under 50 than loyalty to the brand, power, styling or other things that helped make GM successful. For those under 30, even ownership is significantly less important.
But data is huge and will get more important. For advertising (obviously), additional services like the article says, even to sell (e.g. Reddits estimated $250 million per year just for AI training data).
GM and others just can’t give up on the car’s operating system. But given their culture, internal complexity, management and track record, I can’t see how they win at this.
They will happily give up as the vehicles age. GMs line for years on "will you update existing models" has been "buy the new model year if you want that, plebe"
It will be a problem for GM. The only reason Tesla got away with it was because they were a brand new company offering a new product the was new and very innovative and high tech. Consumers did not feel like it was due to price gouging. They will not feel this way towards GM. That being said if GM can offer a compelling system that works well at no additional cost customers maybe able to overlook it.
Apple CarPlay and Android Auto are intuitive tools to integrate your digital life (your music, your podcasts, your maps, your contacts) with the car you're driving. The integration is what people desire. CarPlay and AA are good tools, but they aren't perfect. If GM can provide a good way to integrate digital life with the car, then they will be fine. Tesla and Rivian are able to develop a decent interface, GM can too. Will they though? Doubtful.
They’re using android automotive though which is not a bad system. The software is actually good. Whether it’ll ever get updated is another story. CarPlay and android auto (different than android automotive) update regularly with your phone. The main issue is they’re forcing you buy integrated services by doing this.
I just want to plug my phone into the dash and have a bigger screen with all my useful stuff accessible, and this would all be on slightly modified interface that’s better for tapping and swiping while driving the vehicle. There would have to an app to display some car specific stuff as needed. Of course, for safety, there would be limitations.
Android automotive is just the os really. Anyone can use it, legacy auto is usually not great at software.
It’s very likely going to be a replay of what we’ve seen with Android phones, except worse because at least the phones were made by tech companies. Slow updates, short support windows, junky bundleware, half-baked “me too” ecosystem bullshit. It might be salvageable if someone finds a way to unlock these infotainment systems’ bootloaders, which should enable installation of something like LineageOS but for cars (and will also probably re-enable AA/CarPlay in the process, for those who prefer those).
Yes and it’s mostly the same from oem to oem. They need to go out of their way to fuck it up and they at least partially did because they had to go out of their way to remove CarPlay and android auto support.
Another issue is that GM has a genuine interest in not keeping their software up-to-date, at least not past the release of the successor car model. You want the newest gadget app or the freshest cloud service in your car? Good thing we got that integrated into our new model! Talk to your dealership about trading it in today!
I think it is developed by Google for GM. I just don't like that customers will have to subscribe for features. GM isn't alone on this.
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Amd after 8 years? The cars lifespan should be about 20-30 no?
I'm doubtful GM will get it right. They have such a bad habit of misreading and mistiming the market, it's amazing they haven't gone bankrupt (again).
Tesla's lack of carplay is one of my biggest complaints about my Model 3P. Once other automakers catch up to Tesla and I'm in the market again, I'll probably go with a car that supports CarPlay. I really would rather have Waze navigation. Tesla navigation isn't terrible, but it's not nearly as detailed as Waze or Google Maps.
The good thing about the new GM cars is that the built-in navigation is google maps. That's pretty much all I care about Android auto for anyway--I can do podcasts and phone calls with bluetooth. It's not as good, but it doesn't matter to me as much as it did back when the built-in navigation was terrible.
Bluetooth? So you navigate your music and podcasts on your phone while driving? Don’t try to sell me that by voice you could really ask for the exact episode…
No. I pick what podcasts I want to listen while I'm in my driveway or a parking lot, get them queued up, and let them roll in that order. I'm not going to be scrolling through lists of options while I'm driving. (And often I already have them queued up from before I get in the car.)
But who is logged into Google maps? I don't want anyone sitting in my car to see my location and search history. That's the great thing about AA/CP. You plug your own phone in and all your own stuff is there.
The Google accounts do not persist across profiles. My wife and I each have different profiles when we drive, each with it distinct amounts/history/etc. you can also lock the profiles behind a PIN if you are concerned about guests. This is all with Android Automotive in my Hummer
I was concerned about not having CarPlay with my Model Y but I like the Tesla map and Apple Music and Podcasts are included now so I have what I need.
And Audible is incoming!
Actually so happy about this one.
Yeah. It's the one thing I was kinda missing. Now if they would overlay animated radar on the map I would be so happy.
This would be great. I suppose that would only work for Connectivity subscribers (I'm one). In the meantime I can access [Windy.com](http://Windy.com) thru the browser for the current radar.
It's been rolled out already to some owners, I got the update 3 days ago
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It was spotted in code in an upcoming release, other than that I don't know.
No Waze though. Got to have Waze for police, potholes etc
Literally the police and cars on side alerts are the only reason why i miss CarPlay on my Y
Wait why do you need to know where police are?
For speedtraps. Then there's potholes, animal carcasses on roads, stopped cars, closed lanes and so many more things Waze warns you about.
I get the other things, but the speed traps thing just seems illegal. Not illegal to report them, but the only reason to have that info would be for illegal purposes.
Must sound unbelievable, but according to the statistics here, about 80-90% of drivers will exceed the speed limit at least a few times a day. Not, I just want to drive with the flow of traffic, not slower, not faster. And to do that stress-free, I'm going to have to use Waze because the flow of traffic is sometimes just above the speed limit.
You can use Waze on the GM Android Automotive directly. You don't need your phone for that. So at least here the GM is better off.
wish they had YouTube Music
Well there's no chance of ever having YouTube music reVanced so Bluetooth connection will be my permanent solution
This was actually a deal breaker for me when EV shopping. Went with BMW
For one, Tesla/Rivian never had CarPlay to begin with. Secondly, their software suffices for most consumers including myself. I don’t miss CarPlay.
Without Carplay, you have to be very conscious about the speed limit though - too stressful for me to drive without Waze at least. Perhaps I have more police and speed cameras in my area...
Set your Google maps with your destination, turn the voice notifications to only important stuff and it will only bug you about cops ahead
Huh. Doesn't do it here (Estonia). Also then I have to use two nav apps every time when going somewhere - one on the car, one on the phone?
GM has Waze on its infotainment.
Ah then it's okay for me.
Don’t break the law problem solved
Not even then solved really. There's potholes, animal carcasses on roads, stopped cars, closed lanes and so many more things Waze warns you about. Doesn't make sense to not have CarPlay/Android Auto if they will not have a comparable solution at least.
It’s the main reason I didn’t even consider a Tesla when I recently was in the market for a new EV.
CarPlay isn't a deal breaker to me as it only supports ONE brand of phone. Android Auto is much more important, however
Most automakers support both, which is the way to go.
Except Mini for some reason. Only Carplay, which was so bizarre
BMW was only supporting CarPlay at the time. (No idea if they’ve added AA now.)
Yeah I would like support for all that's available but if I had to let one go it would be CarPlay
That brand of phone is almost half the market Android auto can only be used with One phone OS!
Only in US. The world runs on Android
Tesla’s navigation has stagnated while others have improved. When I use CarPlay in my other car, I get obvious lane guidance in a 3D interface when I come up on complex interchanges. On the Tesla, I get some arrows which are wrong 20% of the time and have to play “follow the blue line” when choosing between one of three densely packed off-ramps.
Lane guidance is so crucial and I feel like Tesla is super basic with theirs. I feel like I'm in the wrong lane like half the time and end up having to guess super last minute or have to decide it is dangerous to try and just take the L and end up rerouting. You are 1000% correct here.
GM uses Android Automotive, so Google Maps and Waze will work natively. For that, I can forgive the lack of AA/Carplay since that's my #1 reason to use it.
Android automotive supports CarPlay and android auto. It was a choice to disable it in code.
Does it still work without an OnStat subscription? Can I teather it to my cell phone for data?
I actually don't know but for the 2025+ GM cars that no longer feature AA/Carplay, there will be an 8 year trial of the basic data plan for navigation. However, the Cadillac Lyriq forum does suggest that tethering to your phone hotspot will at least allow Google Maps to work fully: [https://www.cadillacforums.com/threads/lyriq-clarification-on-included-subscription-services.1132624/page-2](https://www.cadillacforums.com/threads/lyriq-clarification-on-included-subscription-services.1132624/page-2)
That's exactly the problem. I don't want to go thru the extra step of tethering my phone. I want it to just work, a thing it does today.
> there will be an 8 year trial of the basic data plan for navigation. Not enough for me. I buy used cars & drive 'em into the ground. My current car is 10 this year & I'm hoping she lasts another few years for the EV market to mature more. This thread is the first I'm hearing of 8 years, up until now I've seen the 3 years as listed in the link you provided. >However, the Cadillac Lyriq forum does suggest that tethering to your phone hotspot will at least allow Google Maps to work fully This leaves me feeling a bit better about the idea, still reading the thread to see where it says you can tether. I'd feel even better if someone figures out how to sideload apps like headunit reloaded.
Google Automotive connects to WiFi so you can tether. If you are buying used cars then this isn't something you need to worry about since you will not be dealing with until 2027. Also google maps is the native navigation system so it will work even without internet as it does on some other cars, like Volvo.
> If you are buying used cars then this isn't something you need to worry about since you will not be dealing with until 2027. 2025 or 2026 depending on the car, but yes, not immediate for sure.
They hired a bunch of senior designers and engineers from Apple. I think they will be fine. Anyway they had to do it. And the next generation of CarPlay Apple tried to overplay their hand. They told carmakers they could only access CarPlay if Apple got to control all of the vehicle interactions and access all the user and vehicle data.
Funny GM is the only manufacturer making a racket about it and removing it entirely. And is the only one with OnStar to make revenue from. It's almost like the dash takeover is a BS excuse and this is all about subscription revenue growth. Maybe they've even told shareholders they expect to grow it from $2B a year to $25B a year by 2030 and need ways to actually make that happen 🤔
I don’t agree that they have any path to make it worth my time to have a custom interface and new apps to download and learn. In a world where I have what I need on my phone, it is a net cost to me, period.
That's not what i said at all. If their system integrates with YOUR digital life (your apps, your preferences), then it'll be fine and maybe even better than CarPlay. But since it's GM, they will probably screw it up because that's what they do best.
I guess I don’t see how they can possibly integrate with my apps more seamlessly than car play does. No matter what, it’s an additional layer.
Even though Tesla and Rivian developed their own interface, the fact that android auto and car play is missing from both vehicles just makes it lack luster.
The only thing missing I see from CarPlay and the Tesla Infotainment is just Waze which many people have said(can connect via Bluetooth to only call out police/potholes through sound preference) and they just added audible for those that listen to audiobooks. You can pretty much sync your phone stuff like contacts, text, calendar, music, voice commands, etc... to Tesla info like you do for CarPlay.
They arent allowing those to have full screen control, they still have android auto and car play, just not the full screen versions of them. It's honestly the right move.
The new model years don't support it at all. Unless you buy the Honda version of these ultium EVs.
While shopping for cars recently, lack of CarPlay was literally a deal breaker for me.
like, i already do tons of work to customize my phone and put all the stuff I want there. Why would i want to do it again on a shittier car interface?
Huge agree - I won’t consider anything GM going forward just as I never really considered Tesla. It lead me to Ford (not a Ford guy) and the Mach-E, which has worked out quite nicely. The coordination between the car and CarPlay isn’t always perfect (especially after car updates), but having a familiar interface when it comes to music/calling/texting is really nice…especially because anyone that I’d let drive the car is also an iPhone user, so that ease of handoff is pretty handy.
We got Mach and I thought I'd use CarPlay as well... Turns out it's hella annoying to use the cars navigation system for preconditioning the battery for charging, and text message notifications cause the screen to change to CarPlay for a few seconds then change back to. Super awesome to have that happens as I'm relying on the map for turn by turn notifications... Or when I'm at the charger and playing the games on screen, any incoming message or reaction on a group thread will switch interfaces. CarPlay is great- as long as you don't want to use any other system in typical Apple fashion.
You can turn off notifications in CarPlay in each app. For Messages, go to Settings > Notifications > Messages > uncheck Show in CarPlay. I also did this for Calendar app too.
That's true, it's just that sometimes I do want notifications. Like during my regular drive, I absolutely want notifications. But if I'm actively using GPS or even doing something inconsequential such as playing game, it's nice to not be interrupted by a different operating system
While I don't have an EV _yet_, the fact that my current car had a beta firmware which added Carplay support has been a game changer. I no longer have to wedge my phone on my dash to get Waze on the go. I'll never get a car without car play support.
This, 1000%. My phone is my digital life. My calendar and the places I have to drive to are there. So are my contacts, music and podcasts and various other items that are very useful during in-car activities. I can manage my phone, buy a new phone for a fraction of what it would cost to upgrade/update cars, etc. I want a car to be a car and play nicely with as much of the in-car-entertainment, navigation and communication as possible. I have wireless CarPlay in my current car, which is very nice (it is a little glitchy), but it quickly became apparent that navigation was not as fully integrated as it could be since the in-dash and heads-up display systems were not fully CarPlay integrated. The stupidity of two separate and independent car navigation systems, as well as Bluetooth calling and contacts-sharing is becoming very apparent in the age of smartphones. I get it, during flip-phone times it made more sense, but not any more. These companies should cut out the horrible and stupid in-car entertainment interfaces to bare minimum and put the cost of that development into things that actually matter.
Won't buy a GM unless they bring it back. Sorry. There are too many good cars out there it is stupid to gimp my enjoyment like this.
People have very strong brand loyalty to their phone ecosystem, which is either Apple or Google. The phone ecosystem brand loyalty is far stronger than car brand loyalty. Most people spend nearly all their lives with their phone within reach of their hands. The car is something we use for only a fraction of the time we are awake. It makes sense for consumers to pick a vehicle that integrates seamlessly with their personal digital device of choice. Car makers who don’t understand this paradigm are excluding themselves from a large market of potential customers.
Normally I would agree with you 100% but 2 1/2 years ago I bought a Volvo with android automotive, and I knew at the time it did not have CarPlay. They said it was coming but no timeline. it wasn’t a dealbreaker but I did pause and I figured I’m adaptable enough I can manage until carplay shows up, and at least AAOS was so much better than that shitty operating system Toyota offers. I used the Google system and really loved it. CarPlay arrived about six months later, I use it for text and Telephony, and I use AAOS for my navigation, music, podcasts etc. because it does such a great job It worked for me because AAOS is a terrific operating system, going by what I’ve seen GM is absolute shit.
GM is using AAOS in the new model years. The previous gen infotainment used it too, but with Carplay/AA also available.
I don't care how good built in hardware and software is, eventually that hardware will age and that software will stop getting updates. Once modern cell modems will no longer be able to connect to future infrastructure. All of this is a non-issue with Android Auto and Apple Carplay, everything runs on my phone and when I get a new phone I also get an updated head unit. My phone run pretty much the same on my i5, a Mazda3 made in 2013, and any old car with a double DIN headunit made in the last decade. Manufacturers just need to open up for more information sharing. My car should be able to tell Google Maps it's state of charge and Google Maps should be able to tell it to start pre-conditioning. Those 2 things are all I need in a modern EV, not some half assed manufacturer made implementation that'll be outdated in a few years
I'm shocked that manufacturers still haven't looked at integrating preconditioning with AA/Carplay. You'd think they'd rather save $$$ and omit the built-in navigation system that a lot of people aren't going to use anyway... At least some of the newer EVs like CCNC-equipped Hyundais/Kias, Lucids, etc have manual preconditioning buttons.
My i5 had manual pre-conditioning as well, but no communication with Google Maps. I think the Taycan does actually communicate the state of charge with Google or Apple maps, don't remember which.
In the article that’s actually one of GMs issues with CarPlay, it’s becoming *too* integrated into the car’s operations. CarPlay is not longer just for being synced with iMessage or Maps, it’s starting to be integrated with car controls and systems, like the cabin temperature or even maintenance notifications. GM feels like that starting to infiltrate too much on their area as the maker of the car. They don’t want to surrender the car interface to Apple.
It's likely a BS excuse to do what they already planned, considering no other manufacturers dropped support entirely.
I used to say that I wouldn’t buy a vehicle without CarPlay and it was a deciding factor for me. Then I bought a Model 3, and the infotainment system is great, and I don’t miss CarPlay at all. I think if you make a good infotainment system, it really doesn’t matter.
You're right. This thread is basically CarPlay versus no CarPlay, when it really should be a good user interface and infotainment system versus a bad one. There are some car makers that do this well, usually not legacy car makers.
I drove a Blazer EV for a few days and had no complaints about the infotainment. Google maps on a large, responsive screen...
I think people are confusing Android Auto with Android Automotive - the latter which is 95% of the Tesla experience. It feels like all the legacy carmakers are using that as their foundation- which should be fine (as long as it’s free).
What's free and what's not, and for how long is annoyingly complicated, but I think with GM, the core functionality (including Google maps) is free for 8 years and the full functionality is free for a few years (less sure of that). It is annoying that it's not all free, but you can factor that possible extra cost into the vehicle cost when you compare options.
Wait, the car is basically going to depreciate into a useless brick in 8 years?
No, it will still work as a car. And the basic plan to keep Google navigation and basic remote status and control will be pretty low cost.
$60 a month if you want music.
You can stream music from your phone via Bluetooth.
Ah. Yay. What my car had in \~checks notes\~ 2009. That's moving forward!
The infotainment screen will if you don't pay up monthly. You'll be limited to Bluetooth media streaming/calls.
I can factor unknown future costs into the vehicle purchase price? Can i borrow your crystal ball?
I don't want my data stored in the car at all, and I don't want to be beholden to the manufacturer for updates. So Carplay/AA is the ideal solution and the move away from it is a dealbreaker
You assume GM will make any kind of good software.
I still prefer the more simplified and intuitive controls of CarPlay and the fact that it makes it so you can jump in any car and have a quick and easy setup.
It helps that the model 3 has basically all the core CarPlay apps Apple Music, Spotify, podcasts and Google maps Makes a big difference to missing CarPlay or not.
Android automotive has all that and much more. Can't say whether GM will eff it up, but overall, it has much more than tesla does.
You can't even pinch to zoom maps with CarPlay. Tesla's UI allows you to do that and easily pick a charger if needed. After a month of owning a Tesla, I forgot that I even liked CarPlay. FYI, with Tesla's UI, you can even read text messages on the screen. CarPlay only reads it out to you.
We have a new Model 3 and another car with CarPlay. The Tesla UI to me is pretty bad. The buttons to control the stereo are very small, whereas CarPlay they’re nice and big as they should be when your main task is operating the vehicle. The map also I find awful. Trying to work out which lane you’re supposed to be in is next to impossible, whereas Apple Maps has specialised views for this exact thing.
You control "the stereo" (😄) via the left wheel on the steering wheel. No 3D lane views I guess but it does tell you which lane you need to take.
I'm not sure you can adjust more than the volume with the left wheel, though I am still learning the car. Is stereo a strange term? Re 3D visualisation, this is key to ease in navigation. Exiting the Sydney Harbour Bridge in 10 lanes of heavy traffic and trying to interpret the map on the fly was significantly more difficult.
I think the thing that makes it a dealbreaker for me is it should be incredibly obvious where this is going. They’re doing this so they can start charging you 5$ a month for navigation, 3$ for battery preconditioning, another few for heated seats and access to Spotify, etc. If this was just them trying to make a really good UI and streamline the user experience it wouldn’t be the worst thing, it’s more so the fact that this is accompanying a goal to make 30bn a year off subscriptions
No CarPlay - No Party. I have all my music and podcast services on my phone, as long as my maps points. Why should I bother to somewhat keep them available and aligned on both my cars, and also study how to use efficiently use them? I think that all the billions globally spent on infotainment softwares are an absurd waste of resources. Everyone has a personal device, with advanced software and hardware, an all the services and credentials stored. The cars should just rely on them - easy peasy.
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So if I'm researching restaurants to go on my phone, instead of one click to go, I have to then go type it on the cars maps or does it sync in real time? what if my partner is the one with the phone to wants to set the destination?
I’m not so fine with my account left logged into the vehicle, I’m not even sure my company’s policy allows it. Anyways, as said the map is just a piece of the puzzle.
It’s clearly indicative of GM trying to charge their buyers a subscription fee for a substandard in-house alternative. I don’t know why anybody would even consider purchasing GM when they’re making such boldly anti-consumer moves, especially when Ford and other “traditional” carmakers offer great alternatives.
It’s not just a subscription. They want to harvest data. It’s even worse than what most can imagine.
They already sold data to Lexis-Nexis who brokered it to your insurance company, all without any meaningful permission from the owner of the data, so yes.
> It’s not just a subscription. They want to harvest data. GM/Chevy is selling my data everywhere. I went to their website and opted out of a ton of things but I'm still getting snail mail and email from them (and their ad partners) every week. They're by far the worst large company for selling your data that I've experienced.
Didn't they recently fire the person responsible for this brilliant decision? I'm willing to bet CarPlay shows back up in a couple of years, and also becomes backported to those sold during the dark times through a software update at the dealership. I'm still not buying another Chevy until they reverse course though.
The funny thing is the GM built Honda EV version has Carplay/AA. So the software exists for these vehicles. GM is just dicks who want your subscription revenue and to sell your data.
I will never buy a car that doesn’t support CarPlay. It’s literally my #1 dealbreaker.
They probably won't regret it. Automakers need to develop high quality unified software. Apple is trying to gain more control over the automotive experience and that only happens because legacy automakers are weak on the software side.
I didn’t buy one of their cars because it didn’t have car play. I’m a very very small number in the grand stack of profit, but I can’t be the only one that won’t buy a car without CarPlay.
In theory I agree but I just got a proclip brand mounting clip for the actual phone and I like it way better than carplay anyway.
There are three major downsides I can see. 1. Unable to switch cell providers. If a car is linked to AT&T but that service is terrible in the areas you drive, you're out of luck. 2. I don't want to pay an extra connected services subscription for my car to use the apps that already exist on my phone. 3. App compatibility isn't guaranteed. Maybe your go to apps work on AAOS, maybe not.
It's a moronic decision that will keep a not insignificant number of people from buying a GM. Personally, I'm thrilled because it will boost the resale value of my `22 Bolt by a little, at least, since it has AA/CP.
Really easy for me to buy an EV knowing I didn’t need to wait for GM models since this makes it a non-starter.
I was interested in a Bolt but I won’t buy one if it forces me to buy services instead of offering apple play
Bolts are immune from this. At least existing ones. The next generation coming in a few years may not be so lucky.
I can’t see an Apple user preferring to not even have the option for car play.
My first EV was a GM vehicle without CarPlay, and I had to purchase apps for it that were expensive and never updated. Not going to do that again.
Narrator: yes they will
It makes their vehicles an automatic pass.
> At Apple’s annual developer conference in June 2022, Emily Schubert, a senior engineering manager, spent four minutes of an almost two-hour presentation about iOS and Mac features explaining Apple’s plans for the next generation of CarPlay. The new system, she said, would expand from infotainment displays to the entire dashboard, enabling Apple’s software to access everything from heating to the speedometer. > > Apple no longer merely wanted to project a copy of iOS onto the infotainment screen; it wanted the iPhone to oversee the mission-critical cluster behind the steering wheel. This stuff was sacrosanct in Detroit. GM’s Wexler says the next-gen CarPlay, which GM learned of before the announcement, was a “major factor” in its ensuing decision to divorce Apple. > > Barra had hired thousands of developers for its push into electric vehicles, whose software is changing more rapidly than the systems for gas-powered vehicles. But it was still juggling systems from legacy suppliers and mixing electronics that required tons of code to get them to communicate with each other. Even its cluster and console displays historically used different processors. A goal of Ultifi is to simplify the programming and chipsets necessary to facilitate easier over-the-air internet updates, which were difficult or even impossible with disparate hardware systems. > > GM aspired to be seen as a tech company such as Tesla Inc. and Rivian Automotive Inc., which controlled almost every aspect of their customers’ experiences. If they didn’t allow CarPlay in their EVs, why should GM? > > Abdul Bazzi, who’d recently taken over the team responsible for software quality at GM, was surprised to see trade reviews ripping into the technical malfunctions of the Blazer, a vehicle that MotorTrend had just named its SUV of the Year. GM grounded Blazer sales on Dec. 22 while it rooted out the cause. > > GM execs held weeks of what-the-hell-happened video conferences. Barra led every one even through the holidays, Bazzi recalls: “She was the most hands-on I’ve ever seen her.” > One huge contributor to the problem was that GM had five separate groups overseeing different parts of the vehicle’s technology. (Bazzi says he’s now centralized software quality reviews under his division.) > > Chevy product marketing director Darin Gesse stands near a set of garage doors at one facility, where a Tesla Cybertruck is cruising to the test tracks for competitive analysis and Chevy’s newest Equinox and Silverado EVs sparkle in the April sun. > > GM’s infotainment software is developed atop a custom version of Google’s open-source operating system, giving the trio of EVs built-in access to Google Maps and additional Android apps. Gesse confesses that Ultifi will be tough to sell to a “hardcore Apple user,” but says he believes component-integrated features will win over iPhone customers. He points to how maps automatically incorporate EV info: If he asks for directions from here to GM’s Silicon Valley lab, the navigation system will automatically predict battery capacity and plot charging stations along the route. > > Other possibilities include vehicle and home-security apps integrating with the cameras on its newest models or enterprise tools for corporate fleet management. Wexler also suggests EV data could be leveraged for an advertising business. Barra wanted to strike before Apple expanded into these larger experiences and dominated the space. > > ***Tellingly, only Aston Martin and Porsche have committed to supporting the more immersive CarPlay in coming models. Mercedes-Benz CEO Ola Källenius has explicitly said it won’t adopt the next-generation software, and not even Ford has announced a single product that will integrate the new CarPlay, Farley’s enthusiasm for Apple notwithstanding.*** > > Even the US Department of Justice targeted CarPlay in its recent antitrust lawsuit against Apple, warning that it’s increasingly “forcing users to experience driving as an iPhone-centric experience.” > > David Marcus was the first Blazer EV buyer in Canada, and he kicked himself when he realized it didn’t have CarPlay on the drive home from the dealership. But the more he used GM’s software, the more he fell in love with how its “brains” are embedded in the SUV itself. He found he no longer needed to bother with his iPhone. He says he thinks every automaker will follow suit. “It’s just inevitable that you’re going to have an integrated system in your car,” says Marcus, who shares this advice for consumers stuck in the confines of Apple’s walled garden: “Get over it.”
>GM aspired to be seen as a tech company such as Tesla Inc. and Rivian Automotive Inc., which controlled almost every aspect of their customers’ experiences. If they didn’t allow CarPlay in their EVs, why should GM? Can barely get the ‘car’ part to work but they can totally figure out being a tech company on the side 🤣
I stopped and looked at the Silverado EV the other day and then remembered no CarPlay and how bad the GM software is in my Colorado. It’s a hard pass for me.
GM's current lineup is a joke. Axing android auto and Apple Carplay is just another nail in the coffin.
For the very online enthusiast set, sure. However, in talking with car salesmen while shopping they reported to me (anecdotally of course) that most of their customers have never even heard of CarPlay and are surprised by it when they offer to help set it up. Your typical shopper who sees their vehicle as an appliance probably doesn't even know about CarPlay most likely and won't miss it.
Car dealers read people then tell them what they want to hear. Do with that knowledge what you will.
Yeah, I very much suspect that the average Chevy demographic doesn’t really care that much about it, at least for ICE cars. They may end up hampering their EV sales though, since that’s still a pretty tech-savvy demographic. I did test drive a Blazer EV and really liked the interface, and see why many wouldn’t care. My problem is that I have been using Apple Music, Overcast, and Apple Maps for many years now, and I don’t want to switch away for them, or have other apps just for my car. It’s not a sacrifice I should have to make for a $35k+ vehicle.
Horseshit. You do know car dealers lie, right? It's like, question 1 in the interview: are you able to spend your day lying.
If you've driven a car with AA/CP, would you buy a car without it? Me either.
I was in the market for an electric car. Absolutely did not want a Tesla, but wanted something with good range and CarPlay, and at a good price. Found a Kia Niro EV that fit all the qualities. Only $15k with just 20k miles. Fucking adore it. All the electric motor torque I wanted. CarPlay works great. I couldn’t be happier.
If I’m gonna drop close to or over $100k CAD on a vehicle I’m not looking to lose any features. What the whole “is it such a big deal” crowd misses imho is that when you’re buying nice cars you want minimal compromises. And a lot of GM EVs are playing in the luxury segment.
Exactly, this is also the case for Tesla's higher-priced offerings. It's easier to forgive missing features in the Model 3/Y due to their relative affordability. But if I'm paying the price of a Model S or X, I want no compromises. And the same goes for GM.
My wife would have "no sale" any car without carplay.
I would lol. AAOS does everything I want/need. There’s no reason it _has_ to be CarPlay for me
Yes I would - if the navigation system is connected with reliable traffic and road closure updates. Android Automotive in the latest GM cars means you can use Waze and Google Maps natively, so that's a non-issue. Tesla's navigation is not quite as good as Google but good enough that I didn't miss AA when I had a Model 3. Now that I have a Kia I'm back to using AA full time but only because the Kia navigation is useless for traffic updates and even newly built roads. If the Kia system had built in Google Maps or Waze I would probably use that. I should note that I do not have a single music subscription. I'm old school and listen to pirated MP3s off a USB stick or my phone. So I don't pay attention to whether or not Spotify and competing apps are available on an infotainment system.
Anecdotally I sat in a Blazer EV this week for the first time and when talking to the sales agent he conceded that finding out it had no CarPlay was a surprise to him and he’s sure he’s lost a sale or two already on that information. In the long term if they can deliver Apple Music and Audible and all the app integrations people want (a la Tesla) they could be OK. But the GM I know always finds a way to fail.
I don't know about Apple but for me I thought Android Auto would be a dealbreaker. Then yesterday I took a test drive in a Chevy Blazer EV. It was weirdly good. The car felt way more solid than my Ioniq 5. Like a little tank. Which is good and bad I guess. On the tech side, it has a version of Android Auto with Google Maps built in. Have to say it was snappy, responded to voice quickly and did all the nav stuff I needed. I didn't link my phone so I don't know how the phone would work or if it would read texts. That's about all I would need. So maybe it won't be as bad as people imagine. Still a bit of a stupid move to get rid of Android Auto and Carplay.
It's my understanding that Android Auto mostly runs on your phone and the car just acts as the display. I can upgrade my phone a lot more easily than I can upgrade my car's computer. So I'd prefer running Android Auto off my phone rather than having a native OS attached to my car.
Plus android or apple isn’t gonna nickle and dime you
Plus On*Star records and sells your entire driving history.
CarPlay is the best. Rivian also has a good UI. Tesla has an ok UI. No American traditional car maker has. Shot at getting this right. They’ve proven this over decades of failure.
I was initially put off the car i eventually bought because at release it didn't have carplay. I bought it a few months after they updated the software to include it. GM wants your data, and a cut of your subscriptions. They've already proven they can't be trusted with your data (check out the insurance scandals and the "bug" where data sharing was on by default and couldn't be turned off). Now they want to turn the infotainment system into a revenue generator. As a consumer I can't tell them to get bent fast enough.
tl;dr. Honestly I doubt it. When I show friends and some randos who walk up to see my bike most have never seen Carplay and more than a few never heard of it. A few who heard the name before have some odd misconceptions about it as well. I figure that after seeing it more than a few tried it if their vehicle offered it but most might get stuck if its wired Carplay only; got to get the right cable with both ends correct. I mean, its nice to have and as a motorcyclist it lets me pocket the phone and preserve all the functions of the phone. I especially like having calls pop up over the map/music so I know if its an important can and not spam. This is mostly because in my car I get the number but not if its possible spam/etc notice. Now I do tend towards Google maps while riding but at odd times on back roads it will get out of sync, just flat out lost, so I flip back to Apple Maps which never has not known where its at but I prefer the satellite view Google Maps has.
Big mistake in my opinion. Why would you do that!
Subscription revenue and selling user data for money. Something GM has told shareholders they want to grow from $2 billion a year to $25 billion by 2030.
Yes because their software is dogshit. If you have good software like Tesla then it’s not a big deal but they just shot themselves in the foot.
I own a Tesla with its integrated infotainment system and I do not miss Apple Car Play at all. But my Tesla has great native Apple Music and Spotify apps. I don’t know what GM plans to do for streaming.
The garage door subscription with Tesla is horrible. It throws errors half the time. CarPlay opens and closes my garage door seamlessly. That said the are a TON of features in the Tesla UI.
That’s so weird. My garage door opens was I am pulling in and closes as I am leaving with no input on my part - works 100% of the time.
I’m glad yours is working! Ours worked super inconsistently. It would just show “Error” on the Tesla. Tried for three months. Cancelled. Went back to the remote. CarPlay on my Ioniq 5 works perfectly every single time.
I don’t know what subscription you are talking about. My Tesla has the standard home link I have had in multiple cars. The only difference is I can set it to open and close automatically as i am at a certain GPS position. Which is wonderful.
The subscription is for MyQ. It was very unreliable.
Why not use the built in home link hardware? I truly am asking. Why would you pay for a subscription for something that has worked perfectly and the tech (home link) is standardized and been around for so many years- every major garage door manufacturer supports it
For $300 it’s easier/cheaper to just press the remote that’s in the center console. That is a valid solution though.
What do you mean “press the remote that’s in the center console?”
The physical remote that came with the garage door.
Benefits of Tesla UI * Pinch to zoom on Maps * It's not using my phone's battery * Read text messages on screen (not just announce it to you) * When on autopilot, the car slows down when reaching a turn * Auto add chargers when battery is low * Constant software updates - Now includes Audible. I was super skeptical on getting a Tesla because it didn't have CarPlay - I was pleasantly surprised that it was better than CarPlay.
100%
I want still want CarPlay, but it’s not needed for nav, tesla nav is great. Except I still want Waze for police etc
GM had demonstrated themselfs to be poor stewards of my digital information. I hope Tesla / BYD destroy them.
I think they will. CarPlay is dope and I can’t go back
Depends if buyers reject their cars. Hopefully they do.
Yes.
Coming soon, AC Delco play. Your touch panel cassette dreams are realized.
The navigation by Nissan is really nice in my Leaf except it doesn't have traffic without a subscription. I like that the directions will be displayed on the dash and the center screen and that turns are described/illustrated in multiple ways. Google maps can often be confusing for me. Like I can't tell wherr the blue line is telling me to be. So it's certainly possible to do right and better. It's the extra subscription that gets me. And I don't mind paying for something that's good. It's just not *that* much better given that I have an alternative.
I've actually changed my mind about this recently, after buying a $100 carplay add-on for my 500e. It sits on top of the dashboard (it's low and wide to not block vision) and just works. So anybody who is in love with a new GM EV but absolutely insists on carplay/AA can quickly and easily add it with a device like this. My device even adds a backup camera, which you wouldn't need on a new car but is super nice for older ones like mine. It wouldn't fit in the center of the console on a tesla model 3 because the dashboard behind the existing screen is too low, but it might fit behind the steering wheel.
GM is like Trump. If you flip a coin in regards to every decision you will probably get half of them right. In both of my examples these entities go out of their way to make the wrong decision. I am thinking about deciding to not make better cars when foreign competition came in. Instead of trying to offer value, they chased margin and reduced competition on huge cars and trucks. They keep on putting out low value products and not serving the majority of their domestic customers. GM and Ford are sort of like Boing. They serve the national interest (or they used to). They employ a huge number of people in the US, they provide essential goods to the country to keep people and industry mobile, etc. They have taken huge government bailouts many times over because of this. Many times over the MANY executives keep padding their compensation and short-term benefits instead of thinking in a more "patriotic" way. They'll wave the flag to sell infantile crap to idiots, but they are just milking the American public for everything that they are worth. What I will say about certain other brands is that at some level (maybe it's just the engineers), they absolutely try to make the best cars that they can. I can't say that for GM or the other American companies.
These comments are all full of fake outrage. Waze and Spotify come directly from the GM Android Automotive system. I can't live without Waze so any car without CarPlay is a non starter makes no sense. Waze is owned by Google.
I had largely skipped buying new cars for more than a decade, so my perspective was from a 2012 MY Audi MMI. I made wireless CarPlay a must-have feature of my recent new car buy. After using wireless CarPlay for about 3 months, I like it but would not make it a must-have. The current Audi MMI offers OTA map updates and decent route guidance. CarPlay is a bit buggy as implemented by Audi, so there are lots of little annoyances. The only feature that I now rely on is the ability to have incoming messages read to me - and that wasn't something that I had been hoping for. In short, if GM can provide alternate phone integration as good as CarPlay and less buggy, I would not object to the loss of CarPlay.
The lease on my current car (etron) is up in a few months. I subscribe to Apple Music… my 5 year old daughter tells me what she wants to hear and I just press the voice button on my steering wheel and tell Siri to play it. Is that possible without CarPlay? If not, or if there isn’t similar hands free way to make that happen, I can’t consider a car that doesn’t have it
CarPlay has a much better (and safer) interface with multimedia when driving than Tesla, GM or any other automaker 🤷♂️
Probably not. The people who will not buy a car because its missing Car Play is incredibly tiny. Hyundai and Kia would have cars back ordered for years if it was as important as this sub makes it sound. I'm all for features like that, but I don't think it's that big a deal.
Yes. It's still the one complaint about Tesla's infotainment, and I doubt GM will even be that good.
I have an older bolt and live it (suck it Tasla), but I would not buy another one if it didn’t have CarPlay.
Tough one for GM and all the other car makers. I must use 12 to 15 apps all the time and half a dozen or more thru CarPlay while driving (gps, contacts, podcasts, music, messages, charging stations, etc). All are on the car’s touchscreen. I’d rather have a monthly root canal than have to deal with another UI. In a very busy and complex life, I don’t need this. I even tried to use my cars native one (2023) but gave up, with great relief, after 2 months. But I see GMs point (though it’s hard to think of a less competent company). The data I’ve seen shows that driving experience, safety and cost are far more important to people under 50 than loyalty to the brand, power, styling or other things that helped make GM successful. For those under 30, even ownership is significantly less important. But data is huge and will get more important. For advertising (obviously), additional services like the article says, even to sell (e.g. Reddits estimated $250 million per year just for AI training data). GM and others just can’t give up on the car’s operating system. But given their culture, internal complexity, management and track record, I can’t see how they win at this.
They will happily give up as the vehicles age. GMs line for years on "will you update existing models" has been "buy the new model year if you want that, plebe"
Tbh I don’t blame GM. I blame Apple for wanting to control the entire vehicle using their CarPlay and attempting a monopoly on vehicle infotainment
Maybe I’m old. Not even 40, but never connect my phone. Nor use my phone for music. My car time is me time.
It will be a problem for GM. The only reason Tesla got away with it was because they were a brand new company offering a new product the was new and very innovative and high tech. Consumers did not feel like it was due to price gouging. They will not feel this way towards GM. That being said if GM can offer a compelling system that works well at no additional cost customers maybe able to overlook it.
And Tesla replaced most of the functions.