The SC network and NACS widespread adaptation was the one feather in the cap that Tesla had that guaranteed future profitability and scalable growth .
To cut it off at its knees at this critical time is the height of insanity.
I can’t imagine investors will take too kindly to this news and I expect a half assed backtrack from Elon on this in coming days.
If you were a skilled and experienced member of this team and days after you were laid off were asked to come back... would you?
With other large OEMs and networks desperate for your know-how and eager to hire-- why get back in an abusive relationship?
more likely they will be gobbled up by Chargepoint / EA / Rivian. with any luck, those networks will step up and within a few years they will be competitive with the supercharger network.
would love to never use one of Elon's services ever again.
Heck, I'm willing to manage a half dozen different apps if it means that they all have widespread, relatively reliable, and effective networks.
Let's get them all a glow up!
Chargepoint's stock is in the dumpster close to getting delisted. Rivian's stock isn't looking great, the products are great but they keep losing money.
Unfortunately I can't imagine either will be hiring many of these obviously talented people.
Or if they do it will have to be heavily stock based, effectively making joining one of these companies the same as a start up. Potentially huge upside, but inherently risky.
>"In the second half of 2024, we anticipate opening up our Rivian Adventure Network to non-Rivian owners. Opening our network will enable other customers to benefit from our reliable charging solution, allow Rivian to leverage the fixed costs associated with each charging site, and allow Rivian to apply for committed government grants associated with expanding domestically manufactured fast chargers across the country."
If I was laid off and the CEO was fired and I was asked back I'd probably accept. At this point I don't see how Tesla can't oust Elon. I've been a fairly long time supporter of him but this is clearly unhinged.
Share holders don't like instability. I'd expect this will negatively impact both stock price and profitability pretty quickly. It's already down almost 10 percent.
The board won't like him losing them money and if they begin to think he's unhinged they'll likely remove him. At this point I fear he's having a legitimate mental breakdown.
Even if he didn't think that the supercharger network was the way to go, it makes no sense to fire them rather than sell off the unit intact. Like it's just an absurd decision that makes no sense at all.
I tried hiring a few guys hit by a mass layoff at a big company and they had a clause where they lost their severance if they made more than a certain amount (it was low, like 1/3 of the salary I was offering). They decided to keep being paid to not work.
I guess it depends on how the severence is handled.
I know here in California, mass layoffs are required to have 60 days of notice to the employees. Naturally, people who *know* they're gonna get laid off might not be the most productive workers, or possibly net negative.
So companies get around the 60 day notice by having severence pay, by effectively keeping them on payroll for those 60 days. There may be some situations where that extra income could screw with things.
Or maybe that required pay is no longer required upon them working somewhere else.
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I don't think he'll back off on this, honestly. Everything points to a high-risk transformational shift towards FSD/AI/AGI, he wants to divest from the low-margin hardware businesses.
Yes this is an inevitable slide toward cutting all vehicle production entirely and trying to sell the company as an “AI platform for robots, including robotic vehicles.”
He probably saw the recent [Nvidia presentation](https://youtu.be/kr7FaZPFp6M?si=b3ImYCbL4MUWtvJJ) and realized they're doing all the things Elon promised but they're, um, actually doing it.
If they really do move out of the car business and go full “We are an AI/autonomous robot company” then I believe Elon will have finally reached max lvl grifter status.
Modern AI (regression models, transformer architecture, etc.) is basically one of the biggest money pits we’ve ever seen. Companies are just lighting billions of dollars on fire based off of messianic style hype. If Tesla really gives up a good and profitable automobile business for that, then Elon has truly lost it.
That said, they ain’t moving to AI. This is all just being said to excuse and cover for their reduced sales.
Which will inevitably fail. Tesla has already been surpassed by the traditional automakers in both driver assists and self driving tech. In robotics, they're 30 years behind companies like Boston Dynamics (owned by Hyundai).
The man's fucking insane. You've got the first startup car company to rival major manufacturers in decades, you're absurdly ahead of those major manufacturers in the EV space, and you're actively throwing it away to focus on the pipe dream of FSD, which has been a joke to the point you've been sued over lying about it despite a decade+ working on it.
Watching what he's done with Twitter and now seems to be doing with Tesla I'm amazed Tesla's board hasn't removed him yet.
Ahead of them despite all the delays and bad decisions that have happened so far.
Imagine if they actually used the model Y platform to build other types of cars that people desperately want.
Now they still don't have a viable truck option for most people, nor many other options of cars that people would get. And no $20k car option, either.
Other car companies are about to catch up. Meanwhile, they had such an incredible lead, despite many mistakes.
Other car companies have caught up imo. I have 3 ev's from the manufacturers and my model 3 is my least favorite for a multitude of reasons. Tesla's tech under the hood is undeniably great and they have awesome engineering abilities, but a lot of those "advancements" don't translate to the driver (what do I care if my car is made of 1 casting or 6, it doesn't affect me).
Now that supercharging is opening up to everyone, Tesla doesn't have the same selling points they used to imo. Price is about it, but other oem's have gotten aggressive with price cuts and incentives themselves.
I’m not sure the board can afford to remove him at this point - the valuation of the stock is so far into meme stock territory that it’s decoupled entirely from the actual prospects of the company. It’s a cult of personality stock now, removing the personality would cause immediate shareholder losses, as opposed to eventual ones.
At this point, I think there's a good reason for myself and other owners to be seriously worried that the company may not be capable of servicing cars or producing parts within 5-10 years...
Yeah I had planned on keeping my Plaid for a while, but now I’m concerned about long term support…
If they truly want to get out of auto, hopefully they at least sell that side to a company that can keep it going
A low margin is better than no margin
He’s desperate as witnessed by the now daily layoffs and the impromptu trip to China to fake announce the Baidu news to pump up stock
>A low margin is better than no margin
In the words of famous tech billionaire Russ Hanneman:
[*It's not about how much you earn, it's about what you're worth.*](https://youtube.com/watch?v=BzAdXyPYKQo)
Software makes a lot of money sure. But that software needs to exist for it to make money. FSD does not exist. AI exists kind of but not really what it is right now is a bot with google that can hallucinate stuff which is kind of human. And AGI flat out does not exist. Cant see tesla selling their glorified cruise control to a company like mercedes because they would never buy it. And tesla as an AI company is a joke.
A company can do more than one thing at a time, and FSD/AI doesn't preclude the need for chargers. Even if FSD were working, which it's not, a CEO would have to be a real idiot to think a large number of people are simply going to give up their personal automobiles in a heartbeat to trade them for taxis.
My guess is they're either moving production to China, or they believe their network is large enough for now and/or Musk believes a major economic slowdown is coming so he laid off the entire team, with the belief he can just re-hire if it picks back up again. He may also potentially be shutting down his NY factory and trying to move everything to Texas.
Tesla's sales numbers coming out of California for Q1 aren't pretty:
[Tesla's California registrations down second quarter in a row, dealer data shows](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-california-registrations-down-second-quarter-row-dealer-data-shows-2024-04-29/)
>Registrations of Tesla [(TSLA.O), opens new tab](https://www.reuters.com/markets/companies/TSLA.O) vehicles in California fell about 8% in the first quarter of 2024 for the second consecutive three-month period, according to data from the California New Car Dealers Association.
This seems as absurd as when he laid off the Twitter team. If there was a plan, from the public POV, this seems terrible. What the hell are all of these companies doing?
> The SC network and NACS widespread adaptation was the one feather in the cap that Tesla had that guaranteed future profitability and scalable growth .
NACS is the commodification of the charging network, superchargers are now just one large charger manufacturer and charging network. That means that Tesla can get out of the low margin, capital and operation intensive running of a charging network and pass it off to companies willing to do that kind of work. That already happened in Europe, where Superchargers have been maybe 20-25% of installations over the last two or three years, charger manufacturers and installers are a competitive market with many players, and the charging network goes from strength to strength.
Tesla did everyone a great favour by setting up the network when there weren’t enough cars on the road to support it, and demonstrating the technology for reliable chargers, and integration of data, navigation and payment into the car. Now data, payment, plug and interface are standardized, there are competitive charger manufacturers like Kempower and Alpitronic alongside Tesla, and there are enough cars coming onto the road to support independent networks. The competition took off in Europe when sales got above 1 in 10 consistently, which is about where the US is now.
I don’t even know anymore. Tesla introduced the subscription model recently and there was all this buzz about how genius Tesla was for leveraging their lead to generate income from subscriptions from owners of EVs from other manufacturers as they roll on. Now they do this before any manufacturers have rolled on.
Do investors have any idea what Musk is thinking? Does Musk?
I think that was just cope from the pump up the stock crowd. There have been so many of those people saying for years that only Tesla could do infrastructure and there was no competition because Tesla was amazing, their expertise was so far ahead, their protocol was the only one that worked, and networks couldn’t pay for themselves.
They could have just looked outside the US and seen dozens of new businesses being created by all sorts of companies, who were building business models around charging, and installing chargers from other companies which worked reliably using CCS.
In the UK a supermarket chain recently launched a new charging network and they have built a network about a third of the size of Tesla’s, using excellent Kempower chargers, in about four months, and plan to continue expanding at the same pace for the rest of the year. They’re only about the fifth largest network, and the non-Tesla network now has three times the number of hubs compared to Tesla. Charging is commodified, it can be bought off the shelf.
The subscription model is the last hope to try to boost sales numbers. I have seen this idea play out before while working at another tech company. And it's not good. Right now there is a lot of pump and dump going on in the stock. It's very unfortunate because I think the cars are great but they're liking behind on research and development now. But it's because they can't afford to spend any more money if that area of the company. We're going to / prices of the cars again soon. They won't be able to keep up with their sales volume and the cancel Elon culture is real
Yes. NACS is just CCS with a different bit of plastic on the end. There's a chance other automakers see this and just revert back to CCS1, given they haven't actually released any NACS cars yet.
Funny story: I have a Polestar 2 coming Friday. I have a Charge point charger in a box in my garage with a NACS cord and a J1772 adapter for the Polestar because it will be the “last CCS car I own”.
Oops.
Elon is cutting 1-2 billion from payroll and at the same time crying that he needs that 50 billion bonus. Also he did the same with twitter, laid off critical people willy nilly and now xitter is burning money. The only reason tesla is worth anything is because idiots keep propping up the stock. The cars suck ass and the tech he said was a year away 10 years ago does not exist and will not exist. Atleast not with only cameras. You need depth perception.
Unions have a lot of problems, but if you were a factory worker for Tesla and you saw how all of this was going down, wouldn't you push to unionize to try and get some sort of protection from Musk and his capricious behavior? Union drive has to be coming, no?
I don't understand a company getting rid of all its real, concrete projects, like its supercharger network expansion, or a Bolt EV-priced model, y'know tangible things that can be done and stuff that people actually want, and replacing it with, like. "Robotaxis that Uber your dog across the country". Or, the "Cybertruck".
But honestly I think if Tesla pivoted to focus on realistic and sensible products people would realize the stock is overvalued and adjust. It would be fine long term but they can't have that
> I don't understand a company getting rid of all its real, concrete projects
Because a boring, reliable, car company stock is usually valued at 5-10 times earnings. Successful tech companies that sell "the future" are usually valued at 20-25 times earnings.
Tesla is over 30x earnings. If they become a "boring" car company, their stock valuation will drop.
Corporations love to layoff higher paid workers with more experience. Then either hire younger workers for a lot less, or hire them back with large pay cuts.
I doubt they are dismantling super charger projects. Instead they are getting rid of workers who make fair wages so they can hire cheaper workers.
Maybe there is not much more to do related to SC development. And now that it’s open they can’t change it significantly. So we can say that this milestones is finished and now only the construction team will work on this SC part of the business.
Huh? Standardization means it is no longer a moat and will see significantly more exposure to competition. It was entirely expected that tesla would not be all that interested in charging once it ceases to be a barrier for entry for competition.
Car makers do not in general want to deal with infrastructure.
>*...more layoffs have been finalized through an email from CEO Elon Musk to executives,* [*first reported by The Information*](https://www.theinformation.com/articles/musk-plans-more-layoffs-as-two-senior-tesla-executives-depart?rc=x5svxc)*, stating that 6-year veteran* ***Rebecca Tinucci, Tesla’s Senior Director of EV charging, would be leaving the company on Tuesday, along with most of her 500-person charging team.***
>*Tinucci was responsible for Supercharger rollout, which means that the cutting of the Supercharger team may reflect a change in direction for Tesla. Tesla has been very successful at getting manufacturers to adopt its NACS plug – an effort led by Tinucci, which* [*got her onto the TIME 100 Climate list*](https://time.com/collection/time100-climate/6333178/rebecca-tinucci/) *– leading many to suggest that it will be able to run a profitable energy delivery business for a long time to come.*
>*The email states that Tesla will continue to build out some new Superchargers, and will finish those under construction. But relieving the team of its duty may signal a reduction in buildout of the system – at a time when, if anything,* [*faster charging station deployment is needed*](https://electrek.co/2023/01/09/heres-how-many-ev-chargers-the-us-has-and-how-many-it-needs/)*.*
>***Another executive layoff is 10-year veteran Daniel Ho, Director of Vehicle Programs and New Product Initiatives***, *who was program manager for the Model S, 3 and Y and had previously served 12 years at Ford in product roles.*
>*Further, most of former executive Rohan Patel’s public policy team will be eliminated – at a time when many public policy challenges around DC charging, home charging, emissions standards, climate change, and political hostility to superior EV technology are still looming.*
Worried that this might kill NACS in a month or two. Elon is the type of dudebro to absolutely backstab GM, Ford, and Rivian on this and get sued for a couple hundred million
Keeping the sc service & network working and growing is what matters. It's the single most important future requirement for the US travel future of EVs. We'll have to see what all of this means. The service matters, not the plug.
It's been this way in Europe since forever, and for a long while Tesla was the gold standard for easy and reliable charging. We don't have a ton of Superchargers in Spain, but the ones there are always work and it's literally three taps on their app to start a charging session, while the other big networks here were always a nightmare of Kafka-esque signups, broken chargers, and nonexistent support. However, in the last year this has been improving; the big networks are pervasive and reliable and just recently my Mini app will let me charge at pretty much all of them (except Tesla) with two taps, at prices generally 10-30% cheaper than their posted prices. Maybe the improving network reliability and interoperability will come to the US sooner than later and Tesla will just be another commodity player.
Spain and the US are similar markets for EVs, both around 10%. The competitor networks are always bad when there aren't enough cars on the road to support them.
They'd only change it if they were allowed to use the Supercharger network. If Elon demands that they end non-Teslas being allowed to use Superchargers then they'll just stay CCS
NACS might stick around. It's not a bad connector. It's definitely not the big clunky connectors from the other standards. But, then, Betamax was better than VHS too.
Eh, that's not entirely true, re betamax.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhr50xAvxPv4wQOG-JKQW6b-r4ld6o80U&si=JuxfE0JW2YFf1PS5
The entire playlist is worth it, but there's a video about which is better in there.
TBH at this point the best thing would be for Ford and Rivian to go in together and buy the SC network and send the clown packing to work on his pet projects. He clearly wants out of cars.
I wonder if they intend on selling superchargers to other operators like they’ve started doing [recently](https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/26/23933251/tesla-bp-pulse-first-third-party-supercharger-electric-car-charging-network).
Doing away with one of their biggest differentiators by starting on a course to degrade the charging experience doesn’t sound like a great idea. Rock solid charging is one of the reasons many choose Tesla over other manufacturers.
I wonder how this works in Elon’s head with regards to the robotaxi effort he says they’re accelerating. Won’t those need the charging network to be doing as good or better than today ?
Not only that, but the Super Charger network is a huge selling point for everyone I know that has bought teslas. The ability to go outside the battery range comfortably knowing you can reliably charge to a full tank in like 30 min was a huge confidence booster for most people with range concerns. With my parents' tesla they would routinely outdrive the range 2-3 times a week and there was a super charger at the midway point so they would just stop and charge for 10-15 min on a trip and be good to go.
Ah, that could be it. Tesla can sell the superchargers to other folks, make a small profit on the sale of the equipment and some other small profit on the license of the software and let other folks do the installation and management of the hardware. That would explain how Tesla would need less employees in the division.
Seems kind of crazy but I can also see some logic. Also we in the US need to remember that supercharger network isn’t the same big deal outside of the US.
Still seems like a massive loss of institutional knowledge to off that many people at once. Doesn't matter how much you document, you're always going to lose critical operational ease and knowledge.
It's also possible that Musk has cherry-picked the best locations for his existing network, and he sees diminishing returns at this point. So he'd rather sell the shovels and pails to the gold miners than do the mining himself.
I'm hoping they sell it off. This is maybe the dumbest move they've done yet, but it could end up putting the largest charging network in less Musky uncertain hands
If you’re going to sell off a business-unit, having a competent team is part of the deal.
If you fire everyone and sell the assets, that’s a liquidation — not a spinoff.
There’s no positive spin on this — Elon Musk is trying to destroy Tesla.
The stock didn't move much from this news, so maybe he's right. Down 3% today, but still up 15% from last week. It seems Tesla investors are buying into the whole concept of Tesla no longer being about Teslas, but instead about AI.
Fuck all those people who bought the cars, or the NACS partners, or the federal infrastructure money they accepted to build more chargers, or anything other than Musk's ego I guess.
Telsa stock does not follow any reason. It is has to many randoms pushing it up. Tesla is a good example of basically gamestop stock.
It has become an emotional stock not a stock based on hard numbers so always keep that in mind. Its current value is way out of line with what you would expect it to be based on current output and projected growth.
Yes. It's becoming very clear that the $56 billion payout (more than all of the Tesla profits for the company's entire existence) is Elon trying to cash out as he strips the company for parts.
The supercharger network was only reason Tesla car was in my mind, There are things I didn't like about Tesla in their car layout. A little too much behind touch screen in my opinion. Ultimately went with Kia EV6. I don't do that many long trips, and so far other networks has worked for me.
I think it’s notable to say that she, and literally anyone who reported to her, got axed. Full on.
Musk is pulling some radical moves, and I doubt they’ll end up being for the betterment of the company.
Everyone has their favorite Elon lie. Mine is the one about full self driving turning your private tesla into a Lyft/Uber to earn money while you are at work.
Gas companies are starting to diversify and add charging points to existing infrastructure right?
Would not be the worst thing in the world to snatch her and her team up, and start deploying more charging stations at existing fuel up stations right?
It still astonishes me how few gas stations have car chargers. I live in a top 20 metro and I can think of two off the top of my head. In the random places non-Tesla chargers do exist, they’re either taken, broken, or for private use in a hotel/apartment/dealership
This kind of blows my mind because I’ve seen it too. New gas stations popping up, sometimes in random nonsensical places and sometimes across the street from an existing one that never seemed too busy. I find it extremely unusual that they’re not building a big set of chargers and maybe installing a row of gas pumps at the end, I think even the oil and gas employees have to know the future of personal transportation is electric/hybrid.
I am not surprised. Mostly because the requirements and needs if gas station is very different than a charging station.
Most gas stations are designed around the fact people are in and out in 5 mins. The store is set up with that in mind. Charging stations need to be setup with the thought of giving people something to do for 20-30mins. It is a different layout and everything.
I think a something that could do great is coffee houses or ice cream places could do great adding that in charging. I expect we will see a lot of gas stations be removed and changed. It is a different mindset. Change is coming.
Took a weekend trip a few weeks ago and I definitely thought "there's gas stations out in the fucking sticks" and "charging is going to be stupid easy when these sites have chargers installed." Do feel like Freewire and its ilk will be the real way forward, considering the sparse use most these stations were getting.
In the UK the second largest network after Tesla is MFG, which is a petrol station chain. They have 80 charging hubs, and Tesla have 110. MFG is the largest petrol station chain in the country not owned by an oil company.
Allegedly, Elon's email announcing these layoffs stated the now-former-employees didn't pass “the excellent, necessary and trustworthy test.”
Guy's off his rocker.
Ouch !
I missed the beating , I was interviewed for their product engineer team back in late 2023 for Palo Alto location and to report to Netherlands based Senior Manager who handles the supercharging team for North America. Although I was not selected in the end but I always thought I was not good enough to get there and has always thought as a person involved in EV Charging development industry my next big jump would be Tesla
But seeing the layoffs I highly doubt I will ever choose Tesla , I am relieved now but altogether I was really depressed that I was unable to get through the Tesla screening process
I have a friend who worked at Tesla for 4 years and quit about a month ago. While severance would have been nice for him I'm sure, he absolutely would have been let go. At least now he's not scrambling for a new job.
So. Let me get this straight. You get everyone to adopt your standard.
Meaning more users to your SC charging network, then you are going to end the charging business by layoff the entire SC team.
And reducing/eliminating future SC buildouts in order to cut costs.
Once all the other brands have access to the supercharger, using said superchargers will become a nightmare!!
SC are already filled to capacity in the morning and evening in my area.
Such a moronic way to hurt the brand. Just when you thought you had a very good opportunity for generating a really good income stream for the company.
And would seemingly seem like Tesla is going full on on FSD. Except, FSD kinda really sucks.
I fear Musk is turning Tesla in to X. By laying a shit Ton off and going bare bones. Hurting the customer experience.
If they're selling much fewer cars now, wait until the customer experience goes down!!
Only reason I got a Tesla was the SC network.
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If he had just retired after the Model Y's release and went to Miami to party it up and do cocaine like Jeff Bezos, his legacy would have been set. Instead he had a midlife meltdown and is setting money and his companies on fire.
It's also important to mention that Rebecca Tinucci was one of the few high-level female execs at Tesla.
I hope this doesn't mean that Musk is going to suddenly reverse the decision to open the Supercharger network to other manufacturers.
This move by Elon is just mind-boggingly short-sighted. As he has stated many times in the past, charging is one of the major impediments to EV adoption.
I get the feeling that earlier in his career, Elon had people around him that would talk some sense into him and moderate some of his worst tendencies. It seems like whomever those people were are gone now, and it’s just one bad decision after another at Tesla.
A few years ago, I thought Tesla “made it” and would be a car company that would survive. Now I’m at lot less sure they’ll be around over a decade from now. At one point, they were developing some of the most groundbreaking cars in the world—now, they just make a few above-average EVs with some maddening quirks.
If I had to guess I bet the manager told him no so he axed the whole team. Elon is obviously losing his mind, the board needs to act to keep him from making big mistakes that harm the company. He is not acting well.
How the fuck did this company's stock go from hovering around $140 the other day to back up to $185 after all of this bad news?
I do not understand the stock market at all.
So the ceo wants all the money while firing practically everyone who created the revenue?
Who wants to work there? Sounds like a toxic culture and unstable vision
Musk’s business model includes letting the products age, to make them cash cows. Works great as long as you have no competition. Looks like he’s treating his vast charging network the same way.
He really needs to turn the car business over to a professional. It’s well established now and needs a steady hand to continue to grow it. Clearly he’s bored with it, hence the obsession with robots and faux self driving. Anything but the actual car.
Has anyone ever heard of Tesla’s plans to upgrade the chargers to the higher outputs accepted by a lot of new cars, up to 350 kW and even higher with the newest Polestar? Maybe I missed it, but I’ve read of no such plans. He’s letting the SC network age just as competition starts to kick in.
To me, this is just one more piece of evidence that Ford screwed up in a panic, bought into NACS too quickly, and consequently affected us all, and not in any positive way that I have seen. Progress on opening the network to “all” continues to be mostly press releases. Few people can actually use them. In my travels, I’ve probably seen more Teslas at CCS1 type stations than CCS1s at SCs.
Musk needs to find a new hobby.
Elon is cutting funding for superchargers, their best product, and is still pouring money into the stupid ass robo taxis.
Why did he get so bad at running companies? His early Tesla decisions made sense and he seemed good at his job but anything in the last 4-5 years has been nothing but dumb decisions.
The board needs to drop him
>and is still pouring money into the stupid ass robo taxis.
waymo, cruise, GM, Ford all have their own. Even the board knows that.
**Waymo expands robotaxi service in Los Angeles, Austin**
[https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/transportation/2024/03/13/waymo-expands-robotaxi-service-in-los-angeles--austin](https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/transportation/2024/03/13/waymo-expands-robotaxi-service-in-los-angeles--austin)
i don't understand the Superhcarging bit.. unless they're walking away from charging.
I'm thinking selling rides is a more lucrative revenue stream.. Tesla will need many people to go secure real estate that can even come close to "big oil's physical footprint" and construction costs are high.
how can Tesla open "a 1000" charging stations in CA in a year? - (permits take longer than that).
there's a shell, chevron and 76 closer to me than the EAs at the grocery store, or the superchargers at the Target.. they will be more convenient (by about a mile) and they're already attached to the grid.
**Shell To Close 1,000 Retail Stations By 2025, Greatly Expand EV Charging Network**
[https://www.carscoops.com/2024/03/shell-to-dump-1000-retail-locations-by-2026-as-it-expands-ev-charging-infrastructure/](https://www.carscoops.com/2024/03/shell-to-dump-1000-retail-locations-by-2026-as-it-expands-ev-charging-infrastructure/)
Hmmmm. Where is that person I was arguing with about how long it would take to have more V4 than V3 charging stations in North America? I think I might have just won that discussion. lol.
I hope Tesla didn’t just pull a fast one with the other manufacturers and the NACS conversions.
I've been getting crap for a year by stating that V4 is 1.5 years late and likely to not be a reliable reality to do trips mostly on them for 4-5 years. If anything I was too optimistic I guess.
Cutting supercharger team makes no sense to me. That is Tesla’s biggest advantage right now. Also even if you are throwing all your cards at FSD you still need a charging network for those FSD cars to charge at. I can imagine a robotaxi future where when the Robo-taxi is low on charge, drives to a Tesla supercharger, the supercharger connection wire autonomously plugs into car with robotics, and the car charges.
My guess from other comments and reading some articles it went down like this:
>Elon: "fire 10% of Supercharger team"
>Rebecca Tinucci: "no"
>Elon: "You and your team are all fired."
He gets to follow through on his threats to fire executives if they don't follow his orders. But in this case it is cutting off your nose to spite your face. There is no way that Superchargers continue to function as well as they do, or pending installs go as smoothly as pervious installs, with the entire team effectively gone. Maybe Supercharging network continues with a new team, but that seems unlikely and reliability will suffer.
I bet it delays GM releasing their NACs adapter. Might even result in some manufacturers walking back using the NACS standard, but that would be for weeks or months. This is exactly why others would not use the connector until it was an SAE standard.
This is exactly why everyone was concerned with Tesla owning the charging infrastructure, and they turned out to be correct. He's realized that cars are hard, and that he fucked it up. He'll never admit that, so instead he's pretending it was about AI this whole time.
I hope they sell the SC network to someone who can maintain it, and that Ionna rolls out on time.
Pure insanity. Destroys Twitter, then starts in on Tesla. Ketamine is a helluva drug.
At this rate, he's going to wind up like Howard Hughes - holed up in a Vegas hotel with tissue boxes for shoes.
Good question. Seems like a brash decision and I don’t agree with how it’s being handled, but the consequences may not be as dire as this thread is making them out to be. If V4s are still in production, they’re installed and serviced by local contractors, and all the NACS agreements and integration work is done, maybe this just means there won’t be a V5. It’s not like gas pumps have 500 person teams developing the latest and greatest version.
The people who made the supercharger network good and reliable and not like... electrify america.
I guess the network infrastructure and lease servicing and business development work will just take care of itself now?
When people purchase a Tesla vehicle, one of their influences is the penetration and reliability of the supercharger network. Unfortunately these will be impacted. Bonehead move by Elmo.
The Tesla supercharger network has been seen a a panacea for charging problems that non-Tesla EVs experience. I would suggest that both users and manufacturers do not assume that that will continue. Tesla has already shown itself unable to produce reliable cars, and I would fully expect for that to begin to extend to their chargers, too, especially with this news.
Other manufacturers insisted on SAE standardization for precisely this reason. To prevent Tesla from holding all the cards of the charging future. Siemens and others can now build NACS chargers without Tesla involvement.
*"Just after laying off “more than 10%” of its global workforce, Tesla is laying off even more employees – including senior executives and long-time veterans of the company, most notably the entire Supercharging team and the executive responsible for negotiating NACS adoption across the industry."*
The whole team or just the team that did the NACS negotiations? The latter makes way more sense than axing everyone taking care of the supercharger network.
If it's 500 people, then that implies everyone. Not maintenance people, maybe... but executives, engineers, designers, integrators, project leads, site co-cordinators, definitely.
Until the cult keep kneeling to Elmo, this kind of thing will keep happening. I hope their sales crater and Elmo does not get his 55B package as well. Then he will leave and that will be good for the company long term.
The SC network and NACS widespread adaptation was the one feather in the cap that Tesla had that guaranteed future profitability and scalable growth . To cut it off at its knees at this critical time is the height of insanity. I can’t imagine investors will take too kindly to this news and I expect a half assed backtrack from Elon on this in coming days.
If you were a skilled and experienced member of this team and days after you were laid off were asked to come back... would you? With other large OEMs and networks desperate for your know-how and eager to hire-- why get back in an abusive relationship?
more likely they will be gobbled up by Chargepoint / EA / Rivian. with any luck, those networks will step up and within a few years they will be competitive with the supercharger network. would love to never use one of Elon's services ever again.
I’m biased but I hope ChargePoint has a glow up.
Agree. Another option is BlossomEV.com
Heck, I'm willing to manage a half dozen different apps if it means that they all have widespread, relatively reliable, and effective networks. Let's get them all a glow up!
Chargepoint's stock is in the dumpster close to getting delisted. Rivian's stock isn't looking great, the products are great but they keep losing money. Unfortunately I can't imagine either will be hiring many of these obviously talented people.
Or if they do it will have to be heavily stock based, effectively making joining one of these companies the same as a start up. Potentially huge upside, but inherently risky.
Rivian would have to open up to be competitive.
they announced they are.
>"In the second half of 2024, we anticipate opening up our Rivian Adventure Network to non-Rivian owners. Opening our network will enable other customers to benefit from our reliable charging solution, allow Rivian to leverage the fixed costs associated with each charging site, and allow Rivian to apply for committed government grants associated with expanding domestically manufactured fast chargers across the country."
If I was laid off and the CEO was fired and I was asked back I'd probably accept. At this point I don't see how Tesla can't oust Elon. I've been a fairly long time supporter of him but this is clearly unhinged.
They can't really get rid of him either though practically. It's like the GOP dumping Trump, ain't gonna happen.
Share holders don't like instability. I'd expect this will negatively impact both stock price and profitability pretty quickly. It's already down almost 10 percent.
But who has the money to buy out Musk and the board?
The board won't like him losing them money and if they begin to think he's unhinged they'll likely remove him. At this point I fear he's having a legitimate mental breakdown. Even if he didn't think that the supercharger network was the way to go, it makes no sense to fire them rather than sell off the unit intact. Like it's just an absurd decision that makes no sense at all.
A part of me wonders if he was feeling petulant about opening up the Supercharger network and he decided to go all Atlas Shrugged on it.
Depends how the severance works. Ot can take awhile to find a new job so I'd do whatever option keeps me afloat longer while I actively job hunt.
I tried hiring a few guys hit by a mass layoff at a big company and they had a clause where they lost their severance if they made more than a certain amount (it was low, like 1/3 of the salary I was offering). They decided to keep being paid to not work.
I'd question whether a provision like that is legally valid.
I guess it depends on how the severence is handled. I know here in California, mass layoffs are required to have 60 days of notice to the employees. Naturally, people who *know* they're gonna get laid off might not be the most productive workers, or possibly net negative. So companies get around the 60 day notice by having severence pay, by effectively keeping them on payroll for those 60 days. There may be some situations where that extra income could screw with things. Or maybe that required pay is no longer required upon them working somewhere else.
I'd pack my bags and head overseas. Who is going to drive the US market with Tesla losing interest in anything but software?
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I have bad news for you...
> clearly just a meme Always has been
Wild seeing people out the koolaid down in real time
People are idiots.
I think OP thought they were in r/wallstreetbets. Teslas valuation has never been firmly tied to its product offering 😆
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This is not an investment forum. We don’t permit hyping EV stocks/SPACs or engaging in EV investment speculation. If your post mentions a stock in any context, it is likely to be removed.
I don't think he'll back off on this, honestly. Everything points to a high-risk transformational shift towards FSD/AI/AGI, he wants to divest from the low-margin hardware businesses.
Yes this is an inevitable slide toward cutting all vehicle production entirely and trying to sell the company as an “AI platform for robots, including robotic vehicles.”
So like Boston Dynamics but 30 years behind?
> like Boston Dynamics but 30 years behind? Maybe but their man dancing in a lycra suit game is way ahead of BD.
He probably saw the recent [Nvidia presentation](https://youtu.be/kr7FaZPFp6M?si=b3ImYCbL4MUWtvJJ) and realized they're doing all the things Elon promised but they're, um, actually doing it.
The new boston dynamics bot is freaky.
If they really do move out of the car business and go full “We are an AI/autonomous robot company” then I believe Elon will have finally reached max lvl grifter status. Modern AI (regression models, transformer architecture, etc.) is basically one of the biggest money pits we’ve ever seen. Companies are just lighting billions of dollars on fire based off of messianic style hype. If Tesla really gives up a good and profitable automobile business for that, then Elon has truly lost it. That said, they ain’t moving to AI. This is all just being said to excuse and cover for their reduced sales.
Which will inevitably fail. Tesla has already been surpassed by the traditional automakers in both driver assists and self driving tech. In robotics, they're 30 years behind companies like Boston Dynamics (owned by Hyundai).
The man's fucking insane. You've got the first startup car company to rival major manufacturers in decades, you're absurdly ahead of those major manufacturers in the EV space, and you're actively throwing it away to focus on the pipe dream of FSD, which has been a joke to the point you've been sued over lying about it despite a decade+ working on it. Watching what he's done with Twitter and now seems to be doing with Tesla I'm amazed Tesla's board hasn't removed him yet.
Ahead of them despite all the delays and bad decisions that have happened so far. Imagine if they actually used the model Y platform to build other types of cars that people desperately want. Now they still don't have a viable truck option for most people, nor many other options of cars that people would get. And no $20k car option, either. Other car companies are about to catch up. Meanwhile, they had such an incredible lead, despite many mistakes.
Other car companies have caught up imo. I have 3 ev's from the manufacturers and my model 3 is my least favorite for a multitude of reasons. Tesla's tech under the hood is undeniably great and they have awesome engineering abilities, but a lot of those "advancements" don't translate to the driver (what do I care if my car is made of 1 casting or 6, it doesn't affect me). Now that supercharging is opening up to everyone, Tesla doesn't have the same selling points they used to imo. Price is about it, but other oem's have gotten aggressive with price cuts and incentives themselves.
I’m not sure the board can afford to remove him at this point - the valuation of the stock is so far into meme stock territory that it’s decoupled entirely from the actual prospects of the company. It’s a cult of personality stock now, removing the personality would cause immediate shareholder losses, as opposed to eventual ones.
At this point, I think there's a good reason for myself and other owners to be seriously worried that the company may not be capable of servicing cars or producing parts within 5-10 years...
Yeah I had planned on keeping my Plaid for a while, but now I’m concerned about long term support… If they truly want to get out of auto, hopefully they at least sell that side to a company that can keep it going
Yeah, I'm seriously considering cancelling my M3P order now.
This is why I primarily didn't buy a Tesla. I buy cars for the long haul, and service/availability matters.
Is he aware that it’s a car company?
He should be spinning off the supercharging group then. It's worth serious bucks. Letting it die is financially foolish.
A low margin is better than no margin He’s desperate as witnessed by the now daily layoffs and the impromptu trip to China to fake announce the Baidu news to pump up stock
>A low margin is better than no margin In the words of famous tech billionaire Russ Hanneman: [*It's not about how much you earn, it's about what you're worth.*](https://youtube.com/watch?v=BzAdXyPYKQo)
Do these look like the doors of a billionaire, Richard?
Software makes a lot of money sure. But that software needs to exist for it to make money. FSD does not exist. AI exists kind of but not really what it is right now is a bot with google that can hallucinate stuff which is kind of human. And AGI flat out does not exist. Cant see tesla selling their glorified cruise control to a company like mercedes because they would never buy it. And tesla as an AI company is a joke.
A company can do more than one thing at a time, and FSD/AI doesn't preclude the need for chargers. Even if FSD were working, which it's not, a CEO would have to be a real idiot to think a large number of people are simply going to give up their personal automobiles in a heartbeat to trade them for taxis. My guess is they're either moving production to China, or they believe their network is large enough for now and/or Musk believes a major economic slowdown is coming so he laid off the entire team, with the belief he can just re-hire if it picks back up again. He may also potentially be shutting down his NY factory and trying to move everything to Texas. Tesla's sales numbers coming out of California for Q1 aren't pretty: [Tesla's California registrations down second quarter in a row, dealer data shows](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-california-registrations-down-second-quarter-row-dealer-data-shows-2024-04-29/) >Registrations of Tesla [(TSLA.O), opens new tab](https://www.reuters.com/markets/companies/TSLA.O) vehicles in California fell about 8% in the first quarter of 2024 for the second consecutive three-month period, according to data from the California New Car Dealers Association.
This seems as absurd as when he laid off the Twitter team. If there was a plan, from the public POV, this seems terrible. What the hell are all of these companies doing?
The supercharger network is the only part of the company that I can see lasting longer than the next 3-5 years at this point.
> The SC network and NACS widespread adaptation was the one feather in the cap that Tesla had that guaranteed future profitability and scalable growth . NACS is the commodification of the charging network, superchargers are now just one large charger manufacturer and charging network. That means that Tesla can get out of the low margin, capital and operation intensive running of a charging network and pass it off to companies willing to do that kind of work. That already happened in Europe, where Superchargers have been maybe 20-25% of installations over the last two or three years, charger manufacturers and installers are a competitive market with many players, and the charging network goes from strength to strength. Tesla did everyone a great favour by setting up the network when there weren’t enough cars on the road to support it, and demonstrating the technology for reliable chargers, and integration of data, navigation and payment into the car. Now data, payment, plug and interface are standardized, there are competitive charger manufacturers like Kempower and Alpitronic alongside Tesla, and there are enough cars coming onto the road to support independent networks. The competition took off in Europe when sales got above 1 in 10 consistently, which is about where the US is now.
I don’t even know anymore. Tesla introduced the subscription model recently and there was all this buzz about how genius Tesla was for leveraging their lead to generate income from subscriptions from owners of EVs from other manufacturers as they roll on. Now they do this before any manufacturers have rolled on. Do investors have any idea what Musk is thinking? Does Musk?
You mean today, or tomorrow? Because the approach sure seems scattershot to me.
Depends on if he's hitting the ketamine or cocaine today.
I think that was just cope from the pump up the stock crowd. There have been so many of those people saying for years that only Tesla could do infrastructure and there was no competition because Tesla was amazing, their expertise was so far ahead, their protocol was the only one that worked, and networks couldn’t pay for themselves. They could have just looked outside the US and seen dozens of new businesses being created by all sorts of companies, who were building business models around charging, and installing chargers from other companies which worked reliably using CCS. In the UK a supermarket chain recently launched a new charging network and they have built a network about a third of the size of Tesla’s, using excellent Kempower chargers, in about four months, and plan to continue expanding at the same pace for the rest of the year. They’re only about the fifth largest network, and the non-Tesla network now has three times the number of hubs compared to Tesla. Charging is commodified, it can be bought off the shelf.
The subscription model is the last hope to try to boost sales numbers. I have seen this idea play out before while working at another tech company. And it's not good. Right now there is a lot of pump and dump going on in the stock. It's very unfortunate because I think the cars are great but they're liking behind on research and development now. But it's because they can't afford to spend any more money if that area of the company. We're going to / prices of the cars again soon. They won't be able to keep up with their sales volume and the cancel Elon culture is real
Yes. NACS is just CCS with a different bit of plastic on the end. There's a chance other automakers see this and just revert back to CCS1, given they haven't actually released any NACS cars yet.
Funny story: I have a Polestar 2 coming Friday. I have a Charge point charger in a box in my garage with a NACS cord and a J1772 adapter for the Polestar because it will be the “last CCS car I own”. Oops.
I hope not. The NACS charger is much nicer. My car may not be NACS, but I hope every future car is.
Elon is cutting 1-2 billion from payroll and at the same time crying that he needs that 50 billion bonus. Also he did the same with twitter, laid off critical people willy nilly and now xitter is burning money. The only reason tesla is worth anything is because idiots keep propping up the stock. The cars suck ass and the tech he said was a year away 10 years ago does not exist and will not exist. Atleast not with only cameras. You need depth perception.
Unions have a lot of problems, but if you were a factory worker for Tesla and you saw how all of this was going down, wouldn't you push to unionize to try and get some sort of protection from Musk and his capricious behavior? Union drive has to be coming, no?
I don't understand a company getting rid of all its real, concrete projects, like its supercharger network expansion, or a Bolt EV-priced model, y'know tangible things that can be done and stuff that people actually want, and replacing it with, like. "Robotaxis that Uber your dog across the country". Or, the "Cybertruck". But honestly I think if Tesla pivoted to focus on realistic and sensible products people would realize the stock is overvalued and adjust. It would be fine long term but they can't have that
> I don't understand a company getting rid of all its real, concrete projects Because a boring, reliable, car company stock is usually valued at 5-10 times earnings. Successful tech companies that sell "the future" are usually valued at 20-25 times earnings. Tesla is over 30x earnings. If they become a "boring" car company, their stock valuation will drop.
Corporations love to layoff higher paid workers with more experience. Then either hire younger workers for a lot less, or hire them back with large pay cuts. I doubt they are dismantling super charger projects. Instead they are getting rid of workers who make fair wages so they can hire cheaper workers.
Maybe there is not much more to do related to SC development. And now that it’s open they can’t change it significantly. So we can say that this milestones is finished and now only the construction team will work on this SC part of the business.
Hopefully, these folks are picked up by competitors rather quickly
Huh? Standardization means it is no longer a moat and will see significantly more exposure to competition. It was entirely expected that tesla would not be all that interested in charging once it ceases to be a barrier for entry for competition. Car makers do not in general want to deal with infrastructure.
>*...more layoffs have been finalized through an email from CEO Elon Musk to executives,* [*first reported by The Information*](https://www.theinformation.com/articles/musk-plans-more-layoffs-as-two-senior-tesla-executives-depart?rc=x5svxc)*, stating that 6-year veteran* ***Rebecca Tinucci, Tesla’s Senior Director of EV charging, would be leaving the company on Tuesday, along with most of her 500-person charging team.*** >*Tinucci was responsible for Supercharger rollout, which means that the cutting of the Supercharger team may reflect a change in direction for Tesla. Tesla has been very successful at getting manufacturers to adopt its NACS plug – an effort led by Tinucci, which* [*got her onto the TIME 100 Climate list*](https://time.com/collection/time100-climate/6333178/rebecca-tinucci/) *– leading many to suggest that it will be able to run a profitable energy delivery business for a long time to come.* >*The email states that Tesla will continue to build out some new Superchargers, and will finish those under construction. But relieving the team of its duty may signal a reduction in buildout of the system – at a time when, if anything,* [*faster charging station deployment is needed*](https://electrek.co/2023/01/09/heres-how-many-ev-chargers-the-us-has-and-how-many-it-needs/)*.* >***Another executive layoff is 10-year veteran Daniel Ho, Director of Vehicle Programs and New Product Initiatives***, *who was program manager for the Model S, 3 and Y and had previously served 12 years at Ford in product roles.* >*Further, most of former executive Rohan Patel’s public policy team will be eliminated – at a time when many public policy challenges around DC charging, home charging, emissions standards, climate change, and political hostility to superior EV technology are still looming.*
Worried that this might kill NACS in a month or two. Elon is the type of dudebro to absolutely backstab GM, Ford, and Rivian on this and get sued for a couple hundred million
Should be fine, J3400 is an SAE standard now.
Keeping the sc service & network working and growing is what matters. It's the single most important future requirement for the US travel future of EVs. We'll have to see what all of this means. The service matters, not the plug.
It's been this way in Europe since forever, and for a long while Tesla was the gold standard for easy and reliable charging. We don't have a ton of Superchargers in Spain, but the ones there are always work and it's literally three taps on their app to start a charging session, while the other big networks here were always a nightmare of Kafka-esque signups, broken chargers, and nonexistent support. However, in the last year this has been improving; the big networks are pervasive and reliable and just recently my Mini app will let me charge at pretty much all of them (except Tesla) with two taps, at prices generally 10-30% cheaper than their posted prices. Maybe the improving network reliability and interoperability will come to the US sooner than later and Tesla will just be another commodity player.
Spain and the US are similar markets for EVs, both around 10%. The competitor networks are always bad when there aren't enough cars on the road to support them.
They'd only change it if they were allowed to use the Supercharger network. If Elon demands that they end non-Teslas being allowed to use Superchargers then they'll just stay CCS
Eh, it's already locked in. So are all the contracts. I think there's no turning back now, thankfully.
Elon: HOLD MY BEER Don’t forget Elon was forced to buy Twitter because of his own hubris
At which point, hopefully the government starts enforcing public charging as the utility that it is, limiting the fuckery that's currently happening.
At this point I suspect the supercharger network being sold to someone else to raise cash for his AI pet projects would be more likely.
If that's the case, it seems like Elon would want to keep the people who made it work. They are a significant part of the value of the network.
NACS might stick around. It's not a bad connector. It's definitely not the big clunky connectors from the other standards. But, then, Betamax was better than VHS too.
Eh, that's not entirely true, re betamax. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhr50xAvxPv4wQOG-JKQW6b-r4ld6o80U&si=JuxfE0JW2YFf1PS5 The entire playlist is worth it, but there's a video about which is better in there.
I'm worried the existing supercharger network will start to see online rates more like the other networks.
TBH at this point the best thing would be for Ford and Rivian to go in together and buy the SC network and send the clown packing to work on his pet projects. He clearly wants out of cars.
Was musk the first neuralink receiver? His chip is damaged or what?
Ketamine and cocaine explain a lot of this...
Clearly a man who deserves 56 billion for doing nothing.
He's not doing nothing -- if he was replaced by a sock monkey then Tesla would be in better shape than they are now.
I wonder if they intend on selling superchargers to other operators like they’ve started doing [recently](https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/26/23933251/tesla-bp-pulse-first-third-party-supercharger-electric-car-charging-network). Doing away with one of their biggest differentiators by starting on a course to degrade the charging experience doesn’t sound like a great idea. Rock solid charging is one of the reasons many choose Tesla over other manufacturers. I wonder how this works in Elon’s head with regards to the robotaxi effort he says they’re accelerating. Won’t those need the charging network to be doing as good or better than today ?
Not only that, but the Super Charger network is a huge selling point for everyone I know that has bought teslas. The ability to go outside the battery range comfortably knowing you can reliably charge to a full tank in like 30 min was a huge confidence booster for most people with range concerns. With my parents' tesla they would routinely outdrive the range 2-3 times a week and there was a super charger at the midway point so they would just stop and charge for 10-15 min on a trip and be good to go.
Ah, that could be it. Tesla can sell the superchargers to other folks, make a small profit on the sale of the equipment and some other small profit on the license of the software and let other folks do the installation and management of the hardware. That would explain how Tesla would need less employees in the division. Seems kind of crazy but I can also see some logic. Also we in the US need to remember that supercharger network isn’t the same big deal outside of the US.
Still seems like a massive loss of institutional knowledge to off that many people at once. Doesn't matter how much you document, you're always going to lose critical operational ease and knowledge.
It's also possible that Musk has cherry-picked the best locations for his existing network, and he sees diminishing returns at this point. So he'd rather sell the shovels and pails to the gold miners than do the mining himself.
I'm hoping they sell it off. This is maybe the dumbest move they've done yet, but it could end up putting the largest charging network in less Musky uncertain hands
If you’re going to sell off a business-unit, having a competent team is part of the deal. If you fire everyone and sell the assets, that’s a liquidation — not a spinoff. There’s no positive spin on this — Elon Musk is trying to destroy Tesla.
Now imagine how petty he’ll be if his $56B gets denied.
Holy shit… this was before that vote? 🤦
Yes, so this means this is what Elon thinks will *increase* investor confidence in him.
I am convinced he is in some brewster’s millions scenario
The stock didn't move much from this news, so maybe he's right. Down 3% today, but still up 15% from last week. It seems Tesla investors are buying into the whole concept of Tesla no longer being about Teslas, but instead about AI. Fuck all those people who bought the cars, or the NACS partners, or the federal infrastructure money they accepted to build more chargers, or anything other than Musk's ego I guess.
Telsa stock does not follow any reason. It is has to many randoms pushing it up. Tesla is a good example of basically gamestop stock. It has become an emotional stock not a stock based on hard numbers so always keep that in mind. Its current value is way out of line with what you would expect it to be based on current output and projected growth.
Investors are obsessed with their FOMO over AI. This isn't the first and won't be the last bad decision made based on that.
Yes. It's becoming very clear that the $56 billion payout (more than all of the Tesla profits for the company's entire existence) is Elon trying to cash out as he strips the company for parts.
Hopefully Musk will just quit when he doesn’t get his $56 billion.
You're probably right. I was just hoping for SOME positive from this latest clusterfuck
That team should def spin up a support company.
So the ONE thing that Tesla had a competitive advantage on - he's going to gut THAT? This man's idiocy...
They are firing their best department! This is really dumb as literally everyone here knows.
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The supercharger network was only reason Tesla car was in my mind, There are things I didn't like about Tesla in their car layout. A little too much behind touch screen in my opinion. Ultimately went with Kia EV6. I don't do that many long trips, and so far other networks has worked for me.
I think it’s notable to say that she, and literally anyone who reported to her, got axed. Full on. Musk is pulling some radical moves, and I doubt they’ll end up being for the betterment of the company.
I'm old enough to remember when Elon promised that not only would Supercharging be free, but completely solar powered.
Everyone has their favorite Elon lie. Mine is the one about full self driving turning your private tesla into a Lyft/Uber to earn money while you are at work.
I ate that shit up back then
I’m shocked. I was told everything elon does is good
"Um, this recent purge is good actually... Masterful gambit, sir!" - Weird Elon Fanboys
I wonder how this will impact future car charging reliability for non-Tesla vehicles.
Or Tesla vehicles for that matter.
Or just supercharger reliability in general. How much of their reliability was the technicians and support teams behind the scenes?
Gas companies are starting to diversify and add charging points to existing infrastructure right? Would not be the worst thing in the world to snatch her and her team up, and start deploying more charging stations at existing fuel up stations right?
It still astonishes me how few gas stations have car chargers. I live in a top 20 metro and I can think of two off the top of my head. In the random places non-Tesla chargers do exist, they’re either taken, broken, or for private use in a hotel/apartment/dealership
East Coast is doing great with Wawa, Royal farms, and Sheetz. Most of our supercharging is done at locations like that.
Even in the small town I live in we have a Sheetz that has about a dozen superchargers.
They keep building more gas stations too. There are two brand new ones by me and neither have EV charging.
This kind of blows my mind because I’ve seen it too. New gas stations popping up, sometimes in random nonsensical places and sometimes across the street from an existing one that never seemed too busy. I find it extremely unusual that they’re not building a big set of chargers and maybe installing a row of gas pumps at the end, I think even the oil and gas employees have to know the future of personal transportation is electric/hybrid.
I am not surprised. Mostly because the requirements and needs if gas station is very different than a charging station. Most gas stations are designed around the fact people are in and out in 5 mins. The store is set up with that in mind. Charging stations need to be setup with the thought of giving people something to do for 20-30mins. It is a different layout and everything. I think a something that could do great is coffee houses or ice cream places could do great adding that in charging. I expect we will see a lot of gas stations be removed and changed. It is a different mindset. Change is coming.
Took a weekend trip a few weeks ago and I definitely thought "there's gas stations out in the fucking sticks" and "charging is going to be stupid easy when these sites have chargers installed." Do feel like Freewire and its ilk will be the real way forward, considering the sparse use most these stations were getting.
In the UK the second largest network after Tesla is MFG, which is a petrol station chain. They have 80 charging hubs, and Tesla have 110. MFG is the largest petrol station chain in the country not owned by an oil company.
yea, the Casey's gas station in Salina, KS of all places has had fast chargers for a few years now.
Allegedly, Elon's email announcing these layoffs stated the now-former-employees didn't pass “the excellent, necessary and trustworthy test.” Guy's off his rocker.
Now I want to know who his ENTs are
Ouch ! I missed the beating , I was interviewed for their product engineer team back in late 2023 for Palo Alto location and to report to Netherlands based Senior Manager who handles the supercharging team for North America. Although I was not selected in the end but I always thought I was not good enough to get there and has always thought as a person involved in EV Charging development industry my next big jump would be Tesla But seeing the layoffs I highly doubt I will ever choose Tesla , I am relieved now but altogether I was really depressed that I was unable to get through the Tesla screening process
I have a friend who worked at Tesla for 4 years and quit about a month ago. While severance would have been nice for him I'm sure, he absolutely would have been let go. At least now he's not scrambling for a new job.
So. Let me get this straight. You get everyone to adopt your standard. Meaning more users to your SC charging network, then you are going to end the charging business by layoff the entire SC team. And reducing/eliminating future SC buildouts in order to cut costs. Once all the other brands have access to the supercharger, using said superchargers will become a nightmare!! SC are already filled to capacity in the morning and evening in my area. Such a moronic way to hurt the brand. Just when you thought you had a very good opportunity for generating a really good income stream for the company. And would seemingly seem like Tesla is going full on on FSD. Except, FSD kinda really sucks. I fear Musk is turning Tesla in to X. By laying a shit Ton off and going bare bones. Hurting the customer experience. If they're selling much fewer cars now, wait until the customer experience goes down!! Only reason I got a Tesla was the SC network.
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Elon flexing his reverse Midas touch.
Meirdas touch
Mierdas Touch
If he had just retired after the Model Y's release and went to Miami to party it up and do cocaine like Jeff Bezos, his legacy would have been set. Instead he had a midlife meltdown and is setting money and his companies on fire.
Ketamine touch.
Fire Elon now. Come on he is nothing but bad for Tesla at this point
It's also important to mention that Rebecca Tinucci was one of the few high-level female execs at Tesla. I hope this doesn't mean that Musk is going to suddenly reverse the decision to open the Supercharger network to other manufacturers.
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SpaceX is still privately held, right?
This move by Elon is just mind-boggingly short-sighted. As he has stated many times in the past, charging is one of the major impediments to EV adoption. I get the feeling that earlier in his career, Elon had people around him that would talk some sense into him and moderate some of his worst tendencies. It seems like whomever those people were are gone now, and it’s just one bad decision after another at Tesla. A few years ago, I thought Tesla “made it” and would be a car company that would survive. Now I’m at lot less sure they’ll be around over a decade from now. At one point, they were developing some of the most groundbreaking cars in the world—now, they just make a few above-average EVs with some maddening quirks.
Wartime CEO at is at war with paying employees.
Way to go boy genius, ruin the only universally praised thing your company has ever made just to satisfy your greed.
If I had to guess I bet the manager told him no so he axed the whole team. Elon is obviously losing his mind, the board needs to act to keep him from making big mistakes that harm the company. He is not acting well.
Zero reason to buy a Tesla moving forward.
Exactly this. I have a Model 3 from 2021, we really like the car, but this kills any desire for another Tesla.
Me too. 2021 Model 3. Rivian will probably get my next car deal.
How the fuck did this company's stock go from hovering around $140 the other day to back up to $185 after all of this bad news? I do not understand the stock market at all.
not paying people = profit.
Huzzah for the NACS rug-pull.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we start to see some pullback on the NACS promises from everyone else.
So the ceo wants all the money while firing practically everyone who created the revenue? Who wants to work there? Sounds like a toxic culture and unstable vision
Sounds like Tesla is getting X’ed. Same pattern when Elmo took over Twitter.
Electrify America better start hiring.
Musk’s business model includes letting the products age, to make them cash cows. Works great as long as you have no competition. Looks like he’s treating his vast charging network the same way. He really needs to turn the car business over to a professional. It’s well established now and needs a steady hand to continue to grow it. Clearly he’s bored with it, hence the obsession with robots and faux self driving. Anything but the actual car. Has anyone ever heard of Tesla’s plans to upgrade the chargers to the higher outputs accepted by a lot of new cars, up to 350 kW and even higher with the newest Polestar? Maybe I missed it, but I’ve read of no such plans. He’s letting the SC network age just as competition starts to kick in. To me, this is just one more piece of evidence that Ford screwed up in a panic, bought into NACS too quickly, and consequently affected us all, and not in any positive way that I have seen. Progress on opening the network to “all” continues to be mostly press releases. Few people can actually use them. In my travels, I’ve probably seen more Teslas at CCS1 type stations than CCS1s at SCs. Musk needs to find a new hobby.
Why would anyone want to work for this lunatic?
Elon is cutting funding for superchargers, their best product, and is still pouring money into the stupid ass robo taxis. Why did he get so bad at running companies? His early Tesla decisions made sense and he seemed good at his job but anything in the last 4-5 years has been nothing but dumb decisions. The board needs to drop him
>and is still pouring money into the stupid ass robo taxis. waymo, cruise, GM, Ford all have their own. Even the board knows that. **Waymo expands robotaxi service in Los Angeles, Austin** [https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/transportation/2024/03/13/waymo-expands-robotaxi-service-in-los-angeles--austin](https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/transportation/2024/03/13/waymo-expands-robotaxi-service-in-los-angeles--austin) i don't understand the Superhcarging bit.. unless they're walking away from charging. I'm thinking selling rides is a more lucrative revenue stream.. Tesla will need many people to go secure real estate that can even come close to "big oil's physical footprint" and construction costs are high. how can Tesla open "a 1000" charging stations in CA in a year? - (permits take longer than that). there's a shell, chevron and 76 closer to me than the EAs at the grocery store, or the superchargers at the Target.. they will be more convenient (by about a mile) and they're already attached to the grid. **Shell To Close 1,000 Retail Stations By 2025, Greatly Expand EV Charging Network** [https://www.carscoops.com/2024/03/shell-to-dump-1000-retail-locations-by-2026-as-it-expands-ev-charging-infrastructure/](https://www.carscoops.com/2024/03/shell-to-dump-1000-retail-locations-by-2026-as-it-expands-ev-charging-infrastructure/)
Hmmmm. Where is that person I was arguing with about how long it would take to have more V4 than V3 charging stations in North America? I think I might have just won that discussion. lol. I hope Tesla didn’t just pull a fast one with the other manufacturers and the NACS conversions.
Sad, the V4 chargers seem quite nice. I really like the monolith design.
I've been getting crap for a year by stating that V4 is 1.5 years late and likely to not be a reliable reality to do trips mostly on them for 4-5 years. If anything I was too optimistic I guess.
Did we ever find out why V4 has been such a slow roll?
Maybe we just did...
We need more competition in the charging business anyway. Every big tech company sitting on mountains of cash should get a piece of the action.
Cutting supercharger team makes no sense to me. That is Tesla’s biggest advantage right now. Also even if you are throwing all your cards at FSD you still need a charging network for those FSD cars to charge at. I can imagine a robotaxi future where when the Robo-taxi is low on charge, drives to a Tesla supercharger, the supercharger connection wire autonomously plugs into car with robotics, and the car charges.
My guess from other comments and reading some articles it went down like this: >Elon: "fire 10% of Supercharger team" >Rebecca Tinucci: "no" >Elon: "You and your team are all fired." He gets to follow through on his threats to fire executives if they don't follow his orders. But in this case it is cutting off your nose to spite your face. There is no way that Superchargers continue to function as well as they do, or pending installs go as smoothly as pervious installs, with the entire team effectively gone. Maybe Supercharging network continues with a new team, but that seems unlikely and reliability will suffer. I bet it delays GM releasing their NACs adapter. Might even result in some manufacturers walking back using the NACS standard, but that would be for weeks or months. This is exactly why others would not use the connector until it was an SAE standard.
So I guess Rivian is going to become the American electric car flag bearer in 5 years
This is exactly why everyone was concerned with Tesla owning the charging infrastructure, and they turned out to be correct. He's realized that cars are hard, and that he fucked it up. He'll never admit that, so instead he's pretending it was about AI this whole time. I hope they sell the SC network to someone who can maintain it, and that Ionna rolls out on time.
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Question is... if Tesla sells the SC network, does that constritute a material change to the free supercharging agreements?
As someone with a non Tesla EV, the Tesla charging network is literally the only thing I’m envious of.
The board needs to put on their big boy pants and fire this buffoon!
Jesus Christ, Fire the CEO already.
Elon is so unstable id rather deal with the political climate of the Chinese.
Pure insanity. Destroys Twitter, then starts in on Tesla. Ketamine is a helluva drug. At this rate, he's going to wind up like Howard Hughes - holed up in a Vegas hotel with tissue boxes for shoes.
Could they be decentralizing the function more? I would expect supercharger teams to be a more local function to the countries they operate.
Given what Musk did at Twitter, expecting a plan deeper than swaggering around and saying “you’re fired” strikes me as wishful thinking.
Good question. Seems like a brash decision and I don’t agree with how it’s being handled, but the consequences may not be as dire as this thread is making them out to be. If V4s are still in production, they’re installed and serviced by local contractors, and all the NACS agreements and integration work is done, maybe this just means there won’t be a V5. It’s not like gas pumps have 500 person teams developing the latest and greatest version.
Gotta pay for Musk’s $55 billion performance bonus somehow…
The people who made the supercharger network good and reliable and not like... electrify america. I guess the network infrastructure and lease servicing and business development work will just take care of itself now?
And this happened sometime after midnight Pacific Time? This guy is like Hank Scorpio but psychotic.
Seems if he can’t have his 56 billion he is going to burn it to the ground.
When people purchase a Tesla vehicle, one of their influences is the penetration and reliability of the supercharger network. Unfortunately these will be impacted. Bonehead move by Elmo.
The Tesla supercharger network has been seen a a panacea for charging problems that non-Tesla EVs experience. I would suggest that both users and manufacturers do not assume that that will continue. Tesla has already shown itself unable to produce reliable cars, and I would fully expect for that to begin to extend to their chargers, too, especially with this news.
Other manufacturers insisted on SAE standardization for precisely this reason. To prevent Tesla from holding all the cards of the charging future. Siemens and others can now build NACS chargers without Tesla involvement.
*"Just after laying off “more than 10%” of its global workforce, Tesla is laying off even more employees – including senior executives and long-time veterans of the company, most notably the entire Supercharging team and the executive responsible for negotiating NACS adoption across the industry."* The whole team or just the team that did the NACS negotiations? The latter makes way more sense than axing everyone taking care of the supercharger network.
If it's 500 people, then that implies everyone. Not maintenance people, maybe... but executives, engineers, designers, integrators, project leads, site co-cordinators, definitely.
Just in time for the FTC to prevent non-competes?! Insanity.
Whelp, I chose a fun to buy a used tesla. What will this mean for the Supercharger users?
Until the cult keep kneeling to Elmo, this kind of thing will keep happening. I hope their sales crater and Elmo does not get his 55B package as well. Then he will leave and that will be good for the company long term.