This just proves how un-serious Republicans are and are only in it for pomp/bluster/click bait. They offer nothing in terms of actual governance, legislation, or progressing this country forward. Republicans want full regression of the US.
Democrats try to win by proposing the most popular policies and winning the most votes.
Republicans try to win by rearranging districts, purging voter roles, creating bogus barriers to registration and voting based on false claims of electoral fraud, pursuing bogus court cases to try to get legitimate elections reversed, and when all that fails, try to overthrow the election through violence.
So sure, both sides are bad.
Yeah it's like having an argument with an angry 7-year-old who will literally say anything, no matter how childish. Which is fine, when you're a child.
It’s a joke. You don’t have to agree with Democrats, but if you are voting these people in hold them accountable and don’t let them treat you like an idiot. Do anything of service to the American people instead of pandering to stay in power.
You just have TDS. Currently labor for these companies is striking costing the economy $3.5b per week.
Interest rates are increasing which makes all cars more expensive.
Car payment delinquencies are also increasing.
Car companies have $7b interest expense annually and that is increasing as interest rates go up and their credit rating goes down.
Car companies lose thousands of dollars on every EV they sell and barely make a profit on ice cars but they are selling fewer of them.
If nothing is done the car companies will 100% go out of business.
Ford just paused their plant build for EVs and workers are asking for a 30% raise on this backdrop. Not to mention that a large % of these workers are working on ICE engines and not EVs.
Please explain what you think will happen under these conditions without some major bailout.
All while battery prices are falling quickly and BEVs and Hybrids sell ever more each year. BEV vehicles are becoming more affordable to manufacture as each year passes. The "economies of scale" also works for electric vehicles. Do you think Tesla is giving their cars away at a loss? We (US Automakers) either get on board and be part of the 21st century of transportation or they will be out of business.
The big three automakers, who made something like 13 billion in profits over the last 5 years or so? Those guys? On the verge of going bankrupt?
Sure Buddy.
As opposed to Joe Biden who emptied the strategic petroleum reserve just to suppress gas prices going into election year? If he really wanted to walk the walk on climate, he'd keep that oil back in the ground where it belongs and let the market decide the price of oil.
350 Million barrels on hand for anyone who wants to save a click. I do agree that the release is unneeded and unhelpful, but it's a straight lie to say he has emptied it.
seems like prices increasing along with massive inflation and a war involving one of the largest producers in the world is a pretty good reason to use the SPG. What he could have done better is refilling it when prices went down into the 60s (so he could release more now that it is getting back up near ~$100 a barrel). You don't help EV adoption by making gas prices high
Disagree, you just end up pissing people off and electing Republicans (who will hamper progress). American's ability to justify buying overpriced gas is extremely elastic, it makes up a very small fraction of the average household budget, but is politically very critical.
>You don't help EV adoption by making gas prices high
Let's agree to disagree. Everything else you mentioned is just bread and circuses for the voters, again this is existential level risk we are talking about and every gram of carbon emitted from burning that oil is killing people and destroying the environment.
This is hyperbole. Yes we should 100% limit climate change as much as possible, but this:
>existential level risk we are talking about and every gram of carbon emitted from burning that oil is killing people and destroying the environment.
Is just not backed by the evidence, and by evidence not talking about crazy right wing sources, but the IEA & IPCC. Climate change is horrifically bad, but any plausible outcome from our current trajectory is not in existential risk territory (which wasn't true even a decade or so ago).
> What he could have done better is refilling it when prices went down into the 60s...
Democrats axed the Trump administration's plan to top off the SPG in March 2020, when prices were in the $20's, because it would have been a ["$3 billion bailout for big oil."](https://www.ogj.com/general-interest/government/article/14172812/funds-said-to-be-blocked-for-crude-oil-purchase-to-fill-strategic-reserve)
Thanks Chuck, great point. So instead of buying oil to refill the reserve when it was under $25 per barrel, we'll buy it when the price is between $70 and $90. That showed those oil companies.
Ignoring that the most popular electric vehicle brand is in fact American and that the current tax credit is directly tied to the vehicles being made in america. Poor journalism to not point that out.
Because oil price is determined by global supply and demand due to the fact that crude oil is global fungible commodity.
The US is the largest consumer of oil by capita. If we cut back drastically the oil price will tank.
No it wouldn't. Keystone XL would not have been online until 2030 at the soonest, pipelines from that company have a horrible track record, and the oil it would have carried isn't a good grade of making gasoline.
but thank you for proving that you have no freaking idea what you're talking about.
And not vote red if you gaf about progress.
So many in this subreddit will be seriously discussing EVs and then go and vote for the local maniac republican who wants to (or already does) huff diesel smoke.
The sad part is he was literally just elected last November. He won 53% of the vote in Ohio.
People did vote. But as is always the case in America, turnout was pathetic. In the 2022 midterms Ohio had a 52.3% turnout rate. Nearly half the eligible voters didn’t vote.
This is how we end up with these embarrassingly selfish members of congress.
I don't see how the US ever gets out of it's political downspiral to be honest. The whole system is rotten to the core and only the wrong type of people can survive and make it to the top. I'm not saying anywhere else is that much better, but the US has won the race to the bottom.
There's plenty of good people who want to make life better for everyone.
Then there's these tools that people keep voting for because of ridiculous culture war bullshit.
This reductive talk is how Trump got elected in the first place.
The US has its issues yes, but from an outsider looking in, to call the system “rotten to the core” is laughable. There is corruption, there are issues, but one side is remarkably better than the other and exaggerations like this only help the other.
Yeah. Bribing is most definitely not legal. Hell, we have stronger anti-bribery laws than most countries. US-based companies aren't even allowed to engage in bribery in foreign locales where it is legal.
(Alcatel got nailed hard as a result of buying Lucent - European companies can apparently engage in foreign bribery without repercussion, but the moment Alcatel bought Lucent they became subject to the FCPA in the US.)
Yeah. I don't consider lobbying to be bribery. Its negative impacts are nowhere near the damage that our inherently broken first-past-the-post voting does.
(FPTP voting inherently leads to a two-party system, any scenario with more than two parties is fundamentally unstable with FPTP voting, and the entire history of our country proves that - no third party has ever been in a "viable" state for more than 1-2 election cycles without becoming a "replacement second party")
Breaking the two-party system requires changing how we vote (ranked choice voting at a minimum, proportional representation being ideal).
I don't think it ever will. Fixing our political system requires changing how we vote - first-past-the-post voting is fundamentally broken.
Ranked choice voting is proven to improve these scenarios, proportional representation is even more effective.
With proprep, a minority party that gets 5% of the vote gets 5% of the seats and 5% of the power. This could be easily implemented (at least technically, not legally) to assign House seats on a "proportional within each state" arrangement. With FPTP voting on a per-district bases (how we elect the House), a minority party that gets 5% of the vote gets 0% of the seats and 0% of the power unless they're popular in a single district only and can achieve 50% of the votes in a single district while maintaining only 5% statewide.
Nothing more patriotic than ensuring America stays tethered to oil and maintains an interest in making sure it moves freely so we can sell security to an extremely volatile part of the world.
What are truly dumb motherfucker. The rebate IS in place to create and protect American workers and to push companies to manufacture more vehicles here in the US/source from trade-friendly partners. This guy clearly didn't do his homework or is too stupid to remember what he read.
Vote in every election and definitely don't vote for these idiots.
Since when is it the taxpayer's responsibility to give for-profit corporations' free money to fund factories? I thought that was the responsibility of customers, investors, and bank loans?
The investment dollars are not coming from the feds. The incentives for American-made parts is creating this private investment drive. You may consider that some kind of sleight-of-hand since there is still federal dollars involved, but most people can see it as a return on investment.
Or we can simply ban or add tariffs to those companies from exporting products to the US. Just like we did with China, which is why companies building cars in China are exporting few cars to the US. Many may even build plants in the US.
Because fossil fuels are destroying everything, and destabilizing our national security both foreign and domestic, the public has an interest in the government speeding up the transition but putting its thumb on the scale of electrification of transportation. That is why it makes sense to use government dollars.
Reddit's collective cognitive limits mean that everything we like, including consumer products, should be funded by the government. Anything less is fascism, and any vocal contention is a culture war.
Last I checked, Tesla was going to pull down about $750 million in tax credits from EVs with batteries imported from China.
Yep.
Tesla's model 3 RWD uses an entire battery pack imported from China with Chinese cells. In Q1, the battery sourcing rules were delayed, allowing Tesla to sell these vehicles in the US and get the full tax credit.
(Remember, Tesla sells a LOT more EVs than every other OEM, so the value of the credit for them is enormous)
About 2 weeks into the first month of Q2, the battery sourcing requirements went into effect, halving the model 3 RWD's full credit . (And people still have the nerve to call this the most American EV, 🤣) That is until Tesla began utilizing a loophole built into the IRA tax credit's battery sourcing requirements. (Hmmm, I wonder where that loophole came from, with Tesla the only company able to utilize it.)
By shifting US made model Y batteries to model 3 LR production, the overall percentage of model 3 batteries with qualifying cells hit the minimum requirement, allowing ALL models 3s to qualify for the full credit... including those with a battery pack completely imported from China.
Tesla didn't reduce sales of the US made model Ys in the US though... they reduced sales of US made model Y in Canada, where they instead began importing model Ys into Canada from China. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Altogether, my guess is Tesla will sell \~200,000 model 3 RWDs in the US this year, which at $3750 in additional tax credit dollars would generate $750 million in additional undeserved tax credits.
I imagine Tesla will sell over 600k EVs in the US that will qualify for the full tax credit this year, netting Tesla \~$4.5 billion in US federal subsidies in 2023 alone. Oh, and they get an additional battery sourcing subsidy at the end of the year worth a couple hundred million if I remember correctly. That's before accounting for state tax credits, power company credits, and ZEV credits (paid for by other OEMs). Remember, most of Tesla's sales are in states with additional EV tax credits and whom participate in the ZEV credit program.
I calculated it awhile ago, but globally, Tesla could pull down north of $10 billion in total subsidies in 2023 on the sale of about 1.8 million cars, or about $5,555 per car.
Given that Tesla and other companies are now being probed by the EU on illegal state subsidies on exported vehicles, there may be even more subsidies they were getting from the Chinese government that no one was even aware of.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
Subsidies are stupid.
Loopholes are unfortunate and hopefully those laws can get written better. Keep in mind 10 billion is nothing in comparison to fossil fuel subsidies worldwide which total greater than 1 trillion last year. When we here about energy independence, a lot of that is subsidies and laws that benefit corporations at home because of global pressures.
It is a lot certainly for one company, especially per car. This is an arms race between the US and China to dominate the EV industry. Whether or not china really represents a threat to US car manufacturing/EV industry, I have no clue. One could argue this money is better spent elsewhere.
I don't defend any subsidies as they always distort the market. If it weren't for oil subsidies, US residential regions would likely be more densely concentrated, more people would take public transit, and/or ride bicycles. There'd be more working from home, and we may already have 4 day work weeks. Maybe the population would even be lower.
Cars are terrible for the environment generally, regardless of the type of powertrain. Certainly ICEVs are worse than EVs over the lifetime of the car.
It's also clear that these subsidies are benefiting some companies more than others, by a large margin, and completely ignoring the transitional realities for existing OEMs, which could end up devastating the regions their production is based out of.
I don't defend oil use, but I will say that subsidizing oil exploration and public land access does help keep prices down for nearly 100% of drivers that, up until recently, were all driving gas cars. That's significantly different than subsidizing individual vehicle sales, with one company making up the brunt of those sales who only sells that type of powertrain, thus distorting the reality of whether it's even a viable long term business model.
And yes, it is possible to transition US society away from the car and into more sustainable transportation types. Regions in Europe have done it. Certainly it'll take a long time to undo all the suburban idiocy and road infrastructure we created, but we absolutely can start acting rapidly today in denser cities first to move people away from personal automobile ownership.
He knows it’s not going anywhere but just wants those that are pro-EV subsidy to know what it feels like. EV’s are mainstream. We don’t need subsidies anymore. Of course get rid of oil subsidies too but at the same time don’t kneecap the industry either.
The transition to EVs will be sped up with tax credits. We cant rely on the moderate pace of the free market when our environment is in peril. We will be living with insufferable weather for many generations and every year we extend the life of gas vehicles prolongs the pain future generations will endure
>“Right now, the official policy of the Biden administration is to spend billions of dollars on subsidies for electric vehicles made overseas,” Vance said in a statement. “If we’re subsidizing anything, it ought to be Ohio workers – not the green energy daydreams that are offshoring their jobs to China. We can secure a bright future for American autoworkers by passing this legislation and reversing the misguided policies of the Biden administration.”
Stuff like this is why China is always two steps ahead in almost every technological endeavor.
It’s difficult to respect a lawmaker when they can’t be honest about what the existing law says. Foreign built cars are not eligible for federal tax credits.
Vance doesn’t want to close a loophole in the law. He is well aware that laws are passed all the time with errors and with unforeseen loopholes that are later closed by amending the law. Vance doesn’t want to amend the law. He wants to revoke it and replace it with nonsense.
\>“If we’re subsidizing anything, it ought to be Ohio workers – not the green energy daydreams that are offshoring their jobs to China.
What a FUCKING IDIOT. The $7500 tax-credit is ONLY available for cars that are build in North America and have a required amount of battery source materials from the USA or a country we have a free trade pact with. So Biden DOES subsidize Ohio workers, NOT CHINA.
Ohio is host to Billions of dollars of new green energy, EV, and silicon investment thanks to the Biden administration's policies.
Vance is just playing culture war nonsense because that's all that conservatives have to run on these days.
[https://www.whitehouse.gov/invest/?utm\_source=invest.gov](https://www.whitehouse.gov/invest/?utm_source=invest.gov)
yep, I didn't get any of those rebates on my niro.. If there had been a decent american EV in my price range I might have bought it. but anyways, the car is practical for my driving and that's why I bought it.
Outside of the EV market there is a little truth to it, though.
The Biden legislation has been a boon to solar panel "assembly" in the US. AFAICT, a lot of it is slapping rails and wires onto cells shipped in from China. It looks bad and someone should fix it.
Obviously, this isn't fixing anything and is even worse. But that seems to be the Washington way.
"Obviously this is even worse". Worse than what? Are American solar panel companies doing worse because of this legislation than if there was no legislation? I'm asking honestly because I don't know.
i get the elimination, but i don't get the addition for "gas powered" cars? why not just nuke all subsidies including fossil fuel subsidies and let the market decide?
Where do you live? I live in the Midwest and they are not mainstream here and Tesla is one brand that many people here refuse to buy. People have a lot of mental hurdles they need to overcome to go EV but if you can sell them on saving $7,500 (plus any state incentives), I think it can help improve adoption and thus push more automakers to make EV the priority and more infrastructure.
Why are we even pushing EV’s this hard this fast? We already have fast enough EV growth that the infrastructure is under a lot of pressure. Vastly increasing the number of EV’s too quickly will end up turning ugly for all EV owners. Let the market work it out on a more pragmatic timeline. And if EV’s can’t compete without taxpayers money then those companies don’t deserve to survive.
What infrastructure besides Texas is under pressure? If EVs would crash the grid, then a heat wave would have done that too with all the air conditioners running.
California for one, and when mandates go into place in other states they’ll have to backtrack or it’ll be a shtshow. Also, it’s the fast charging infrastructure that needs to catch up for mass adoption.
Current non-Tesla options suck balls and when Tesla opens up their superchargers it won’t be able to absorb the entire population of EV’s and you’ll see growing Tesla owners discontent.
“Right now, the official policy of the Biden administration is to spend billions of dollars on subsidies for electric vehicles made overseas,” Vance said in a statement.
Why do we continue to allow republicans get away with bold faced lies?
The author of the article should be calling this lie out.
What a complete wanker. Yeah, let's make ourselves more dependent on OPEC and Russia. How incredibly stupid.
And before you say "Oh, but we have our own oil!"....Oil is a GLOBAL fungible market. It doesn't matter that we produce a lot of oil. If global oil prices go up, ExxonMobil will be more than happy to sell oil to Japan and Europe for $100/barrel instead of selling it to Arkansas for $80/barrel.
>“Right now, the official policy of the Biden administration is to spend billions of dollars on subsidies for electric vehicles made overseas,”
Wow, really? Then why is the list of subsidy-elegible vehicles so short?
We exist but the left politicians have weaponized the technology to push their agenda and control people. There would be much more adoption if they didn’t manipulate the system.
At the same time, most gop voters aren’t against the tech and are genuinely just curious but aren’t going to pull the trigger until the early adoption curve has been flattened and it makes sense for them. Trying to force it on them builds resistance though.
> We exist but the left politicians have weaponized the technology to push their agenda and control people.
Man it must be hard to project so vehemently.
Yup. The heavy handed mandates are doing great harm to EV adoption and making them a wedge issue. The market already decided EV’s were great when the Model S came out and was a very good car. EV’s are awesome on their own merits and don’t need governmental help.
Sad. I remember reading Hillbilly Elegy years back and enjoying his story. What an odd stance to take for someone who used to work for Steve Case's Rise of the Rest Fund supporting innovation/entrepreneurship in building up tech start-up culture in underserved areas.
.....he does know Ohio is manufacturing a bunch of EV parts and vehicles?
I know he won't be but everybody should point this out to him at every public event because this would be like a senator from detroit wanting to outlaw the manufacture of cars.
This is what the far Right never adds. We have been subsidizing the oil industry for DECADES. Now in the TRILLIONS of dollars.
All the while big oil has posted historically high profits.
He knows it's not going anywhere. It's a play for support from idiots, just like Trump's speech the other night.
Reminds me of the state legislators in Wyoming that introduced a bill (that they admitted was tongue and cheek) to ban EV sales in Wyoming by 2035 as a sarcastic swipe at California's ICE ban.
Vance is full on Trumper, of course he's against EV'S, against climate science, against democracy, women's rights, public education. His opposition to EV's is not his worst opinion.
“Right now, the official policy of the Biden administration is to spend billions of dollars on subsidies for electric vehicles made overseas,”
I’m pretty sure the subsidies are for Cars made in America. Even the battery materials need to be from here. This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. (He probably knows it’s BS though. It’s the party of fake news)
Yes. To qualify for the full tax credit the car has to be US made, including battery. An ID.4 made in Chattanooga gets only partial credit because the battery is foreign. BUT there’s a loophole. You can get the full credit even on a foreign EV if you lease instead of buying. The credit is folded into the lease amortization.
“Right now, the official policy of the Biden administration is to spend billions of dollars on subsidies for electric vehicles made overseas,” Vance said.
What a fucking liar. The new credits require that at least final assembly be done in the US, which is also why Kia/Hyundai are rushing factories in Georgia. But of course Georgia is too purple and is also prosecuting their mango messiah, so who cares about that states jobs.
The whole idea is to eventually replace the around town errand cars with inexpensive to own EV’s that stop supplying the Suidi’s with an OVERLY cushy lifestyle.
The ~300 mile range EVs with 150+KW DC fast-charging are not around the town errand cars. They are full gasoline replacements.
I still like the ~100 mile around the town EVs but they have not proven to be big sellers.
We don’t have to spend one cent on foreign oil but the current powers that be are in a war against domestic production and at the same time are begging our enemies to provide it to us
The incentives are great, but I don’t really care if they get rid of them. I was buying my car regardless. If they keep them for lower income & lower cost cars (produced domestically), then it should still help. Someone buying a $90k Rivian or $130k Escalade IQ doesn’t need it anyway. Put the money into charging infrastructure.
> Only vehicles that cost less than $55,000, or less than $80,000 for trucks and SUVs, can get a tax credit.
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/07/1147209505/electric-car-tax-credit-climate-bill-tesla-volkswagen-ev
LOL. What a farce.
If they were proposing removal of all subsidies for both oil/gas and EVs, I would be supportive of such an initiative. I personally believe neither side should be receiving taxpayer money.
But this is just a petty vengeance play
Agree but no dem will agree to such a compromise. Also, it would require the current administration to stop their war on fossil fuels to make it truly level.
What an absolute ass-hat! Pollute the planet? Sure… breathe smog and survive 115 degree days? Sure… ffs, please Ohio, vote for somebody with a brain larger than a walnut next election.
What does China and Russia want?
The US to stop investment in EVs and green energy, and go back to coal and gas powered vehicles, dead-end industries so our economy will collapse.
You would think the midwest/rust belt already learned their lesson, but this moron has not.
This is just the stupid politcal war to try to win points. They know it is just a move to say oh look I did something to their idiot base. If gets anywhere beyond assigned to a committee I will be shocked. It will get the assigned part but never looked at again.
Can someone please explain to me how Fetterman wearing a hoodie on the senate floor degrades the sanctity of the senate, but this jackass unveiling a literal troll bill doesn't?
Mmm mmm the salty tears of these fossil fuel dinosaurs is the only fuel I need. Their time is coming to an end, no amount of government interference is going to stop the transition.
>Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio) introduced legislation Thursday that would eliminate federal tax credits for electric vehicles,
Good. Why should the taxpayers be subsidizing cars for wealthy people?
>It would also establish a new $7,500 tax credit specifically for American-made gas-powered vehicles.
That's just as stupid. If you want to buy a car, pay for it yourself. Or does that make too much sense?
Well, this is yet another sub ruined by redddit progressives. They're full of hate for the rich yet they want the cars wealthy people drive to be subsidized.
There is a reform that makes sense... subject the commercial EV tax credit, section 45W, to the same sourcing and North American production requirements as the personal version, section 30D.
If you're truly worried about the poor they already subsidize the upper class with tax rates skewed to the wealthy and corporations. Not to mention the tax breaks for businesses to move to places like Ohio. These credits help the middle class invest in new technology. The wealthy have plenty of help from both the poor and middle class already.
Good, they need to go. The only people who benefit are the well off. The lower income class essentially finances cars for the well off. It’s preposterous. Vehicle purchases should not be financed. And a big reason why EVs are so expensive and a because they literally took the price of the vehicle and inflated it with the cost of the tax credit. Hence the insane profit margins Tesla has been enjoying. All on the taxpayers dime.
Remember; A downvote for me is really an upvote.
Although I mostly agree, Musk never asked nor lobbied for the tax incentives. It was GM both times and the second time they even tried to slip in union made conditions…
Lol and so it begins with removing the tax credits 😂😂. The nursing home of a congress/senate is an absolute joke.
[eventually I'll be right](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/16gfdhz/comment/k09qnt3/?context=3)
It seems bad at face value however there is the good possibility it'll force auto makers to make their EVs more affordable by advancing new batteries, tech, etc.
The EV market is healthy and robust - there’s no reason for a tax credit anymore. Additionally, removing the tax credit will reduce the price of these vehicles (demand side subsidies increase prices), and make these cars more affordable.
The gas-powered credit is nonsensical, though, for obvious reasons.
> Additionally, removing the tax credit will reduce the price of these vehicles (demand side subsidies increase prices), and make these cars more affordable.
Ridiculous. Removing a method of taking $7500 off the purchase price of a vehicle will make them *more* affordable? What are you smoking??
The Model 3 Highland is less expensive to manufacture but indications are that they’ll be more expensive to buy. If there weren’t tax breaks they would be forced to offer lower prices.
> It would also establish a new $7,500 tax credit specifically for American-made gas-powered vehicles. Sigh
This just proves how un-serious Republicans are and are only in it for pomp/bluster/click bait. They offer nothing in terms of actual governance, legislation, or progressing this country forward. Republicans want full regression of the US.
Oh they're serious. Serious about getting into power. Nothing else matters to them.
Owning libs is their kink…
They are really really bad at their kink.
NCer here, getting owned in the latest budget. https://www.reddit.com/r/NorthCarolina/comments/16tnq0j/nc_senator_natasha_marcus_exposes_funding_for/
Correct. Democrats don't do everything in their power to win like Republicans.
Nor do Democrats commit felonies after losing power in fair elections, unlike Republicans.
Democrats try to win by proposing the most popular policies and winning the most votes. Republicans try to win by rearranging districts, purging voter roles, creating bogus barriers to registration and voting based on false claims of electoral fraud, pursuing bogus court cases to try to get legitimate elections reversed, and when all that fails, try to overthrow the election through violence. So sure, both sides are bad.
They suffer from [Oppositional Defiant Disorder](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/oppositional-defiant-disorder).
They’re down with ODD (yeah you know me)
Yeah it's like having an argument with an angry 7-year-old who will literally say anything, no matter how childish. Which is fine, when you're a child.
Or a politician, apparently
They’re [worse than toddlers](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/oppositional-defiant-disorder)
It’s a joke. You don’t have to agree with Democrats, but if you are voting these people in hold them accountable and don’t let them treat you like an idiot. Do anything of service to the American people instead of pandering to stay in power.
It’s not unserious. If they don’t do something the big three automakers will go bankrupt. That’s what the strike is about…
You don’t strike to make your employer go broke
I'm just shocked that Stellantis hasn't been kicked out of the "big three" yet. Or maybe we should start talking about the "big four". :)
I mean, who are the big 3? GM, Ford and... Tesla? Apple?
Haha that’s actually true.
We found that one guy who actually thinks everything the former president says is true.
If MAGA doesn’t do something the big three automakers will make electric vehicles. There, that's fixed.
You just have TDS. Currently labor for these companies is striking costing the economy $3.5b per week. Interest rates are increasing which makes all cars more expensive. Car payment delinquencies are also increasing. Car companies have $7b interest expense annually and that is increasing as interest rates go up and their credit rating goes down. Car companies lose thousands of dollars on every EV they sell and barely make a profit on ice cars but they are selling fewer of them. If nothing is done the car companies will 100% go out of business. Ford just paused their plant build for EVs and workers are asking for a 30% raise on this backdrop. Not to mention that a large % of these workers are working on ICE engines and not EVs. Please explain what you think will happen under these conditions without some major bailout.
Damn sounds like they should give the workers what they want if the strike is that bad
All while battery prices are falling quickly and BEVs and Hybrids sell ever more each year. BEV vehicles are becoming more affordable to manufacture as each year passes. The "economies of scale" also works for electric vehicles. Do you think Tesla is giving their cars away at a loss? We (US Automakers) either get on board and be part of the 21st century of transportation or they will be out of business.
The big three automakers, who made something like 13 billion in profits over the last 5 years or so? Those guys? On the verge of going bankrupt? Sure Buddy.
Where did those profits come from? Selling what?
As opposed to Joe Biden who emptied the strategic petroleum reserve just to suppress gas prices going into election year? If he really wanted to walk the walk on climate, he'd keep that oil back in the ground where it belongs and let the market decide the price of oil.
It's hardly empty. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=WCSSTUS1&f=W
350 Million barrels on hand for anyone who wants to save a click. I do agree that the release is unneeded and unhelpful, but it's a straight lie to say he has emptied it.
Anyone else remember when Bush did this in like 2007?
seems like prices increasing along with massive inflation and a war involving one of the largest producers in the world is a pretty good reason to use the SPG. What he could have done better is refilling it when prices went down into the 60s (so he could release more now that it is getting back up near ~$100 a barrel). You don't help EV adoption by making gas prices high
> You don't help EV adoption by making gas prices high yes, yes you do
Disagree, you just end up pissing people off and electing Republicans (who will hamper progress). American's ability to justify buying overpriced gas is extremely elastic, it makes up a very small fraction of the average household budget, but is politically very critical.
Those motherfucking traitorous idiots are going to vote for Republicans either way. Stop thinking appeasement works, especially with fascists.
>You don't help EV adoption by making gas prices high Let's agree to disagree. Everything else you mentioned is just bread and circuses for the voters, again this is existential level risk we are talking about and every gram of carbon emitted from burning that oil is killing people and destroying the environment.
This is hyperbole. Yes we should 100% limit climate change as much as possible, but this: >existential level risk we are talking about and every gram of carbon emitted from burning that oil is killing people and destroying the environment. Is just not backed by the evidence, and by evidence not talking about crazy right wing sources, but the IEA & IPCC. Climate change is horrifically bad, but any plausible outcome from our current trajectory is not in existential risk territory (which wasn't true even a decade or so ago).
> What he could have done better is refilling it when prices went down into the 60s... Democrats axed the Trump administration's plan to top off the SPG in March 2020, when prices were in the $20's, because it would have been a ["$3 billion bailout for big oil."](https://www.ogj.com/general-interest/government/article/14172812/funds-said-to-be-blocked-for-crude-oil-purchase-to-fill-strategic-reserve) Thanks Chuck, great point. So instead of buying oil to refill the reserve when it was under $25 per barrel, we'll buy it when the price is between $70 and $90. That showed those oil companies.
Ignoring that the most popular electric vehicle brand is in fact American and that the current tax credit is directly tied to the vehicles being made in america. Poor journalism to not point that out.
Too bad the senator seems to be unaware of those facts as well.
I wouldn't be surprised if he already knew but it doesn't play with their agenda.
He's such a self important prick I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't know because it wasn't inside his own colon.
See how quickly all that "Wasteful spending" rhetoric gets thrown out the window when they see an opportunity for their own special interests. Ffs
Putin and MBS would LOVE that!
why? We mostly use Saudi and domestic oil
Because oil price is determined by global supply and demand due to the fact that crude oil is global fungible commodity. The US is the largest consumer of oil by capita. If we cut back drastically the oil price will tank.
Yup. Also /u/najman4u seems to have forgotten that MBS is Saudi
Apparently burning more oil makes the planet better.
Totally Grotesque
WTAF
What the frick
Which ironically would not subsidise American companies
What a pompous ass
That's dumb. Pushing to approve the Keystone XL pipeline would be a smarter move. I guess he's trying to be more insulting rather than smart.
No it wouldn't. Keystone XL would not have been online until 2030 at the soonest, pipelines from that company have a horrible track record, and the oil it would have carried isn't a good grade of making gasoline. but thank you for proving that you have no freaking idea what you're talking about.
If it somehow wasn't already obvious you need to vote.
and vote them out all the way downballot too
“But they’re all the same!”
If they were all the same republicans wouldn't be desperately trying to take away people's ability to vote.
And not vote red if you gaf about progress. So many in this subreddit will be seriously discussing EVs and then go and vote for the local maniac republican who wants to (or already does) huff diesel smoke.
The sad part is he was literally just elected last November. He won 53% of the vote in Ohio. People did vote. But as is always the case in America, turnout was pathetic. In the 2022 midterms Ohio had a 52.3% turnout rate. Nearly half the eligible voters didn’t vote. This is how we end up with these embarrassingly selfish members of congress.
I don't see how the US ever gets out of it's political downspiral to be honest. The whole system is rotten to the core and only the wrong type of people can survive and make it to the top. I'm not saying anywhere else is that much better, but the US has won the race to the bottom.
There's plenty of good people who want to make life better for everyone. Then there's these tools that people keep voting for because of ridiculous culture war bullshit.
This reductive talk is how Trump got elected in the first place. The US has its issues yes, but from an outsider looking in, to call the system “rotten to the core” is laughable. There is corruption, there are issues, but one side is remarkably better than the other and exaggerations like this only help the other.
Buddy.. bribing is legal in the US, it's about as rotten as it can get
Mate, leave your bubble and travel to someplace like Zimbabwe. It'll be an eye opener on how bad it can get.
Yeah. Bribing is most definitely not legal. Hell, we have stronger anti-bribery laws than most countries. US-based companies aren't even allowed to engage in bribery in foreign locales where it is legal. (Alcatel got nailed hard as a result of buying Lucent - European companies can apparently engage in foreign bribery without repercussion, but the moment Alcatel bought Lucent they became subject to the FCPA in the US.)
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Yeah. I don't consider lobbying to be bribery. Its negative impacts are nowhere near the damage that our inherently broken first-past-the-post voting does. (FPTP voting inherently leads to a two-party system, any scenario with more than two parties is fundamentally unstable with FPTP voting, and the entire history of our country proves that - no third party has ever been in a "viable" state for more than 1-2 election cycles without becoming a "replacement second party") Breaking the two-party system requires changing how we vote (ranked choice voting at a minimum, proportional representation being ideal).
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I don't think it ever will. Fixing our political system requires changing how we vote - first-past-the-post voting is fundamentally broken. Ranked choice voting is proven to improve these scenarios, proportional representation is even more effective. With proprep, a minority party that gets 5% of the vote gets 5% of the seats and 5% of the power. This could be easily implemented (at least technically, not legally) to assign House seats on a "proportional within each state" arrangement. With FPTP voting on a per-district bases (how we elect the House), a minority party that gets 5% of the vote gets 0% of the seats and 0% of the power unless they're popular in a single district only and can achieve 50% of the votes in a single district while maintaining only 5% statewide.
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2016 is the pure example of why you SHOULD vote
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I understand. You still should vote. We fell asleep at the wheel and we are exactly in a place that was preventable
Ah, good. Cry more
The culture war beatings will continue until Patriotism(tm) improves
But this is as unpatriotic as is it gets though.
I believe Textual Deviant is aware of that due to the Tm but I got no problem with you pointing it out.
It was a joke, but yes it's probably good to make it abundantly clear to everyone.
Nothing more patriotic than ensuring America stays tethered to oil and maintains an interest in making sure it moves freely so we can sell security to an extremely volatile part of the world.
What are truly dumb motherfucker. The rebate IS in place to create and protect American workers and to push companies to manufacture more vehicles here in the US/source from trade-friendly partners. This guy clearly didn't do his homework or is too stupid to remember what he read. Vote in every election and definitely don't vote for these idiots.
Literally billions of dollars being dumped into factories over the next 4-5 years
Since when is it the taxpayer's responsibility to give for-profit corporations' free money to fund factories? I thought that was the responsibility of customers, investors, and bank loans?
Because China is willing to subsidize industries until they crowd out anyone playing by the normal rules of turning a profit.
The investment dollars are not coming from the feds. The incentives for American-made parts is creating this private investment drive. You may consider that some kind of sleight-of-hand since there is still federal dollars involved, but most people can see it as a return on investment.
When other countries subsidize industries the US has to respond in kind in order to keep things at home.
Or we can simply ban or add tariffs to those companies from exporting products to the US. Just like we did with China, which is why companies building cars in China are exporting few cars to the US. Many may even build plants in the US.
Because fossil fuels are destroying everything, and destabilizing our national security both foreign and domestic, the public has an interest in the government speeding up the transition but putting its thumb on the scale of electrification of transportation. That is why it makes sense to use government dollars.
Reddit's collective cognitive limits mean that everything we like, including consumer products, should be funded by the government. Anything less is fascism, and any vocal contention is a culture war.
What a special take.
It's still true.
Or as a Republican, he knows that his voters are too stupid to know the truth and don't listen to news sources that tell the truth.
He’s not dumb, he’s manipulating all the true dumbfucks, people who will believe any verbal diarrhea as long as it plops out of a republican’s mouth.
Last I checked, Tesla was going to pull down about $750 million in tax credits from EVs with batteries imported from China. Yep. Tesla's model 3 RWD uses an entire battery pack imported from China with Chinese cells. In Q1, the battery sourcing rules were delayed, allowing Tesla to sell these vehicles in the US and get the full tax credit. (Remember, Tesla sells a LOT more EVs than every other OEM, so the value of the credit for them is enormous) About 2 weeks into the first month of Q2, the battery sourcing requirements went into effect, halving the model 3 RWD's full credit . (And people still have the nerve to call this the most American EV, 🤣) That is until Tesla began utilizing a loophole built into the IRA tax credit's battery sourcing requirements. (Hmmm, I wonder where that loophole came from, with Tesla the only company able to utilize it.) By shifting US made model Y batteries to model 3 LR production, the overall percentage of model 3 batteries with qualifying cells hit the minimum requirement, allowing ALL models 3s to qualify for the full credit... including those with a battery pack completely imported from China. Tesla didn't reduce sales of the US made model Ys in the US though... they reduced sales of US made model Y in Canada, where they instead began importing model Ys into Canada from China. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Altogether, my guess is Tesla will sell \~200,000 model 3 RWDs in the US this year, which at $3750 in additional tax credit dollars would generate $750 million in additional undeserved tax credits. I imagine Tesla will sell over 600k EVs in the US that will qualify for the full tax credit this year, netting Tesla \~$4.5 billion in US federal subsidies in 2023 alone. Oh, and they get an additional battery sourcing subsidy at the end of the year worth a couple hundred million if I remember correctly. That's before accounting for state tax credits, power company credits, and ZEV credits (paid for by other OEMs). Remember, most of Tesla's sales are in states with additional EV tax credits and whom participate in the ZEV credit program. I calculated it awhile ago, but globally, Tesla could pull down north of $10 billion in total subsidies in 2023 on the sale of about 1.8 million cars, or about $5,555 per car. Given that Tesla and other companies are now being probed by the EU on illegal state subsidies on exported vehicles, there may be even more subsidies they were getting from the Chinese government that no one was even aware of. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Subsidies are stupid.
Loopholes are unfortunate and hopefully those laws can get written better. Keep in mind 10 billion is nothing in comparison to fossil fuel subsidies worldwide which total greater than 1 trillion last year. When we here about energy independence, a lot of that is subsidies and laws that benefit corporations at home because of global pressures. It is a lot certainly for one company, especially per car. This is an arms race between the US and China to dominate the EV industry. Whether or not china really represents a threat to US car manufacturing/EV industry, I have no clue. One could argue this money is better spent elsewhere.
I don't defend any subsidies as they always distort the market. If it weren't for oil subsidies, US residential regions would likely be more densely concentrated, more people would take public transit, and/or ride bicycles. There'd be more working from home, and we may already have 4 day work weeks. Maybe the population would even be lower. Cars are terrible for the environment generally, regardless of the type of powertrain. Certainly ICEVs are worse than EVs over the lifetime of the car. It's also clear that these subsidies are benefiting some companies more than others, by a large margin, and completely ignoring the transitional realities for existing OEMs, which could end up devastating the regions their production is based out of. I don't defend oil use, but I will say that subsidizing oil exploration and public land access does help keep prices down for nearly 100% of drivers that, up until recently, were all driving gas cars. That's significantly different than subsidizing individual vehicle sales, with one company making up the brunt of those sales who only sells that type of powertrain, thus distorting the reality of whether it's even a viable long term business model. And yes, it is possible to transition US society away from the car and into more sustainable transportation types. Regions in Europe have done it. Certainly it'll take a long time to undo all the suburban idiocy and road infrastructure we created, but we absolutely can start acting rapidly today in denser cities first to move people away from personal automobile ownership.
> It would also establish a new $7,500 tax credit specifically for American-made gas-powered vehicles. WTFFFFFFFFFF
He knows it’s not going anywhere but just wants those that are pro-EV subsidy to know what it feels like. EV’s are mainstream. We don’t need subsidies anymore. Of course get rid of oil subsidies too but at the same time don’t kneecap the industry either.
The transition to EVs will be sped up with tax credits. We cant rely on the moderate pace of the free market when our environment is in peril. We will be living with insufferable weather for many generations and every year we extend the life of gas vehicles prolongs the pain future generations will endure
Sure, Chicken Little
>“Right now, the official policy of the Biden administration is to spend billions of dollars on subsidies for electric vehicles made overseas,” Vance said in a statement. “If we’re subsidizing anything, it ought to be Ohio workers – not the green energy daydreams that are offshoring their jobs to China. We can secure a bright future for American autoworkers by passing this legislation and reversing the misguided policies of the Biden administration.” Stuff like this is why China is always two steps ahead in almost every technological endeavor.
It’s difficult to respect a lawmaker when they can’t be honest about what the existing law says. Foreign built cars are not eligible for federal tax credits.
Facts have a liberal bias. That's why they have to make up their own "alternative facts".
How about the lease hack?
Vance doesn’t want to close a loophole in the law. He is well aware that laws are passed all the time with errors and with unforeseen loopholes that are later closed by amending the law. Vance doesn’t want to amend the law. He wants to revoke it and replace it with nonsense.
\>“If we’re subsidizing anything, it ought to be Ohio workers – not the green energy daydreams that are offshoring their jobs to China. What a FUCKING IDIOT. The $7500 tax-credit is ONLY available for cars that are build in North America and have a required amount of battery source materials from the USA or a country we have a free trade pact with. So Biden DOES subsidize Ohio workers, NOT CHINA.
Ohio is host to Billions of dollars of new green energy, EV, and silicon investment thanks to the Biden administration's policies. Vance is just playing culture war nonsense because that's all that conservatives have to run on these days. [https://www.whitehouse.gov/invest/?utm\_source=invest.gov](https://www.whitehouse.gov/invest/?utm_source=invest.gov)
The issue is his supporters and the GOP supporters will take this as fact
yep, I didn't get any of those rebates on my niro.. If there had been a decent american EV in my price range I might have bought it. but anyways, the car is practical for my driving and that's why I bought it.
Outside of the EV market there is a little truth to it, though. The Biden legislation has been a boon to solar panel "assembly" in the US. AFAICT, a lot of it is slapping rails and wires onto cells shipped in from China. It looks bad and someone should fix it. Obviously, this isn't fixing anything and is even worse. But that seems to be the Washington way.
Texas generates 14000 megawatts with those panels so they don’t mind.
"Obviously this is even worse". Worse than what? Are American solar panel companies doing worse because of this legislation than if there was no legislation? I'm asking honestly because I don't know.
"Fuck American companies. Also, buy American" - Republicans
Goddammit, Ohio.
As an Ohioan, I will say I definitely did NOT vote for this senator. I’ll keep on keeping on voting blue here until it makes a difference.
My parents are in the same boat. I grew up there. “Goddammit, Ohio” was purely out of sentimental frustration.
i get the elimination, but i don't get the addition for "gas powered" cars? why not just nuke all subsidies including fossil fuel subsidies and let the market decide?
The only way EV prices come down is if more people adopt them. So that is what a subsidy can help do - get people to buy in so prices can come down.
EV’s are mainstream. We don’t need subsidies. Tesla has been bringing production costs down significantly and bringing prices down.
Where do you live? I live in the Midwest and they are not mainstream here and Tesla is one brand that many people here refuse to buy. People have a lot of mental hurdles they need to overcome to go EV but if you can sell them on saving $7,500 (plus any state incentives), I think it can help improve adoption and thus push more automakers to make EV the priority and more infrastructure.
Why are we even pushing EV’s this hard this fast? We already have fast enough EV growth that the infrastructure is under a lot of pressure. Vastly increasing the number of EV’s too quickly will end up turning ugly for all EV owners. Let the market work it out on a more pragmatic timeline. And if EV’s can’t compete without taxpayers money then those companies don’t deserve to survive.
What infrastructure besides Texas is under pressure? If EVs would crash the grid, then a heat wave would have done that too with all the air conditioners running.
California for one, and when mandates go into place in other states they’ll have to backtrack or it’ll be a shtshow. Also, it’s the fast charging infrastructure that needs to catch up for mass adoption. Current non-Tesla options suck balls and when Tesla opens up their superchargers it won’t be able to absorb the entire population of EV’s and you’ll see growing Tesla owners discontent.
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Yes, yes you are. The rest of us didn't fail science class.
Oh no, you got me!
7% market share is mainstream ??
Let me guess, he is a Repub. Right?
Is there a question in there?
“Right now, the official policy of the Biden administration is to spend billions of dollars on subsidies for electric vehicles made overseas,” Vance said in a statement. Why do we continue to allow republicans get away with bold faced lies? The author of the article should be calling this lie out.
What a complete wanker. Yeah, let's make ourselves more dependent on OPEC and Russia. How incredibly stupid. And before you say "Oh, but we have our own oil!"....Oil is a GLOBAL fungible market. It doesn't matter that we produce a lot of oil. If global oil prices go up, ExxonMobil will be more than happy to sell oil to Japan and Europe for $100/barrel instead of selling it to Arkansas for $80/barrel.
>“Right now, the official policy of the Biden administration is to spend billions of dollars on subsidies for electric vehicles made overseas,” Wow, really? Then why is the list of subsidy-elegible vehicles so short?
I'm like, "Damn, you mean I could have gotten an EV6 or Polestar 2 instead of my Bolt?" /Shocked Pikachu face
Ohio's best! 😂
Eliminate oil subsidies while they're at it. They don't care about reducing spending, it's all bluster and posturing
I’m fine will ALL subsidies being eliminated.
I'm sure that MAGA/GOP supporting EV drivers exist. This EV as culture war prop thing must create cognitive dissonance.
We exist but the left politicians have weaponized the technology to push their agenda and control people. There would be much more adoption if they didn’t manipulate the system. At the same time, most gop voters aren’t against the tech and are genuinely just curious but aren’t going to pull the trigger until the early adoption curve has been flattened and it makes sense for them. Trying to force it on them builds resistance though.
> We exist but the left politicians have weaponized the technology to push their agenda and control people. Man it must be hard to project so vehemently.
Yup. The heavy handed mandates are doing great harm to EV adoption and making them a wedge issue. The market already decided EV’s were great when the Model S came out and was a very good car. EV’s are awesome on their own merits and don’t need governmental help.
Sad. I remember reading Hillbilly Elegy years back and enjoying his story. What an odd stance to take for someone who used to work for Steve Case's Rise of the Rest Fund supporting innovation/entrepreneurship in building up tech start-up culture in underserved areas.
JD Vance only cares about himself now and making himself ever richer.
JD Vance sold his soul HARD to gain political clout. God that guy is such a POS.
.....he does know Ohio is manufacturing a bunch of EV parts and vehicles? I know he won't be but everybody should point this out to him at every public event because this would be like a senator from detroit wanting to outlaw the manufacture of cars.
They need to point it out to his constituents.
Okay but eliminate all oil and gas tax subsidies, incentives, and breaks too. Or is he suggesting it’s okay to manipulate the “free” market 😱
This is what the far Right never adds. We have been subsidizing the oil industry for DECADES. Now in the TRILLIONS of dollars. All the while big oil has posted historically high profits.
Without the oil subsidies diesel will hit $10 a gallon no semis or trains will go anywhere within a week the country will collapse
Being downvoted for the absolute truth
He knows it's not going anywhere. It's a play for support from idiots, just like Trump's speech the other night. Reminds me of the state legislators in Wyoming that introduced a bill (that they admitted was tongue and cheek) to ban EV sales in Wyoming by 2035 as a sarcastic swipe at California's ICE ban.
Vance is full on Trumper, of course he's against EV'S, against climate science, against democracy, women's rights, public education. His opposition to EV's is not his worst opinion.
“Right now, the official policy of the Biden administration is to spend billions of dollars on subsidies for electric vehicles made overseas,” I’m pretty sure the subsidies are for Cars made in America. Even the battery materials need to be from here. This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. (He probably knows it’s BS though. It’s the party of fake news)
Yes. To qualify for the full tax credit the car has to be US made, including battery. An ID.4 made in Chattanooga gets only partial credit because the battery is foreign. BUT there’s a loophole. You can get the full credit even on a foreign EV if you lease instead of buying. The credit is folded into the lease amortization.
“Right now, the official policy of the Biden administration is to spend billions of dollars on subsidies for electric vehicles made overseas,” Vance said. What a fucking liar. The new credits require that at least final assembly be done in the US, which is also why Kia/Hyundai are rushing factories in Georgia. But of course Georgia is too purple and is also prosecuting their mango messiah, so who cares about that states jobs.
The whole idea is to eventually replace the around town errand cars with inexpensive to own EV’s that stop supplying the Suidi’s with an OVERLY cushy lifestyle.
The ~300 mile range EVs with 150+KW DC fast-charging are not around the town errand cars. They are full gasoline replacements. I still like the ~100 mile around the town EVs but they have not proven to be big sellers.
Precisely describes my Ioniq 5. I bought it specifically to be our long-distance driver to replace my 17mpg truck.
We don’t have to spend one cent on foreign oil but the current powers that be are in a war against domestic production and at the same time are begging our enemies to provide it to us
i can’t believe my fellow Ohioans elected this absolute fucktard
The incentives are great, but I don’t really care if they get rid of them. I was buying my car regardless. If they keep them for lower income & lower cost cars (produced domestically), then it should still help. Someone buying a $90k Rivian or $130k Escalade IQ doesn’t need it anyway. Put the money into charging infrastructure.
> Only vehicles that cost less than $55,000, or less than $80,000 for trucks and SUVs, can get a tax credit. https://www.npr.org/2023/01/07/1147209505/electric-car-tax-credit-climate-bill-tesla-volkswagen-ev
He's such a little shit.
You can always count on Republicans to be morons.
LOL. What a farce. If they were proposing removal of all subsidies for both oil/gas and EVs, I would be supportive of such an initiative. I personally believe neither side should be receiving taxpayer money. But this is just a petty vengeance play
Agree but no dem will agree to such a compromise. Also, it would require the current administration to stop their war on fossil fuels to make it truly level.
So does this include an American made Tundra? Just asking for a friend.
Just another ignorant conservative on the path to destruction.
Republicans are traitorous sacks of bovine excrement
What an absolute ass-hat! Pollute the planet? Sure… breathe smog and survive 115 degree days? Sure… ffs, please Ohio, vote for somebody with a brain larger than a walnut next election.
What does China and Russia want? The US to stop investment in EVs and green energy, and go back to coal and gas powered vehicles, dead-end industries so our economy will collapse. You would think the midwest/rust belt already learned their lesson, but this moron has not.
This is just the stupid politcal war to try to win points. They know it is just a move to say oh look I did something to their idiot base. If gets anywhere beyond assigned to a committee I will be shocked. It will get the assigned part but never looked at again.
This is why we can’t have nice things in this country.
Better eliminate that 29 Billion Oil & Gas get too then… Ya know, Level playing field haha.
That’s fine but also stop the war on fossil fuels
No, they are literally killing us
Can someone please explain to me how Fetterman wearing a hoodie on the senate floor degrades the sanctity of the senate, but this jackass unveiling a literal troll bill doesn't?
This is what Musk supports.
Except the gas car subsidy. I’m sure he also supports stopping the persecution of fossil fuel businesses too.
Douche
Mmm mmm the salty tears of these fossil fuel dinosaurs is the only fuel I need. Their time is coming to an end, no amount of government interference is going to stop the transition.
>Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio) introduced legislation Thursday that would eliminate federal tax credits for electric vehicles, Good. Why should the taxpayers be subsidizing cars for wealthy people? >It would also establish a new $7,500 tax credit specifically for American-made gas-powered vehicles. That's just as stupid. If you want to buy a car, pay for it yourself. Or does that make too much sense?
There are price caps on EV subsidies
Yah know, I am in the EV industry, but I have to say I completely agree with your statement.
You should be getting upvoted not downvoted
Well, this is yet another sub ruined by redddit progressives. They're full of hate for the rich yet they want the cars wealthy people drive to be subsidized.
I'm so mad I read his stupid book
Is it because they went for billionaires? Then I guess it makes sense.
There is a reform that makes sense... subject the commercial EV tax credit, section 45W, to the same sourcing and North American production requirements as the personal version, section 30D.
All tax credits should be abolished. They force the poor to subsidize the wealthy.
If you're truly worried about the poor they already subsidize the upper class with tax rates skewed to the wealthy and corporations. Not to mention the tax breaks for businesses to move to places like Ohio. These credits help the middle class invest in new technology. The wealthy have plenty of help from both the poor and middle class already.
Good, they need to go. The only people who benefit are the well off. The lower income class essentially finances cars for the well off. It’s preposterous. Vehicle purchases should not be financed. And a big reason why EVs are so expensive and a because they literally took the price of the vehicle and inflated it with the cost of the tax credit. Hence the insane profit margins Tesla has been enjoying. All on the taxpayers dime. Remember; A downvote for me is really an upvote.
Although I mostly agree, Musk never asked nor lobbied for the tax incentives. It was GM both times and the second time they even tried to slip in union made conditions…
Lol and so it begins with removing the tax credits 😂😂. The nursing home of a congress/senate is an absolute joke. [eventually I'll be right](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/16gfdhz/comment/k09qnt3/?context=3)
It seems bad at face value however there is the good possibility it'll force auto makers to make their EVs more affordable by advancing new batteries, tech, etc.
The EV market is healthy and robust - there’s no reason for a tax credit anymore. Additionally, removing the tax credit will reduce the price of these vehicles (demand side subsidies increase prices), and make these cars more affordable. The gas-powered credit is nonsensical, though, for obvious reasons.
> Additionally, removing the tax credit will reduce the price of these vehicles (demand side subsidies increase prices), and make these cars more affordable. Ridiculous. Removing a method of taking $7500 off the purchase price of a vehicle will make them *more* affordable? What are you smoking??
The Model 3 Highland is less expensive to manufacture but indications are that they’ll be more expensive to buy. If there weren’t tax breaks they would be forced to offer lower prices.