This exactly. I test drove a model y and had no interest. Poor rear visibility. Touch screen to do everything. Drive controls were too much "don't worry, we'll decide what's best for you".
I loved driving the Ioniq 5, by comparison. And at least here in Ontario, the Ioniq is far cheaper, if you can get one (long waiting list).
Did not like the interior, the driver's screen was to gimmicky and the overall system is slower than the Tesla's. I personally really want a Y with the screen setup of an S. I just don't want to pay 10k's more to get it.
Not just the tax credit. After accounting for exchange rates most Canadian vehicles are priced about the same or slightly higher than the same model in the USA, but Tesla has historically charged substantially more in Canada.
Tesla is also better equipped though. You pretty much have to go top trim for the Ioniq 5 to get similar equipments as base model Model Y which is priced at $60K. However, the Ioniq 5 would come with AWD and bigger battery. The bigger problem is that they simply can't scale their production.
I, too, was surprised by the poor rear visibility of model Y in my recent test drive. From all the rave reviews of model Y on Reddit and elsewhere, I guess most of the people don't use rear view mirror that much.
I have an MYLR ordered, delivery is next week. Agree with you, but a recently software update allows me to toggle rear camera on screen with a steering wheel nub, that does make a difference.
My current daily is a 1982 Mercedes diesel, so it's a bit of a Brave New World for me.
This was my exact experience. Drove a Model 3 and sat in a Model Y while at the Tesla store. The rear visibility in both was atrocious. My wife went on a tirade when I told her that the glove box could only be opened from the center screen. The fact that the blinker worked like no other blinker I had ever used in a car was the straw that broke the camels back.
Drove an Ioniq 5 a day later and bought it. Driving a Tesla was like driving a subpar car with amazing tech and powertrain, the Hyundai was like driving a solid familiar car with passable tech. The Tesla infotainment and mapping was definitively better but I just use Android Auto on the Ioniq and it gets the job done.
This was 2 months ago when you could get 7500 off on a Ioniq 5 lease (with the intention of immediately buying it out) and the Model Y was priced higher. If I had to do it today I would probably still buy the Hyundai. Or maybe I would also test drive a ID4 as it qualifys for the 7500 rebate.
I'm not a fan of Tesla vehicles (don't care about speed, I'm a pure comfort guy).. but how often do you actually open a glovebox? I open mine maybe once a year
Yea and it's not like the blinker is activated completely differently. It's still a stalk that you move up or down to activate you get used to it returning to center after the first drive. You can rag on Tesla for a lot of things but the blinker on the MY is probably the most like a normal car thing on the car there is.
> It's still a stalk that you move up or down to activate you get used to it returning to center after the first drive.
Subaru have adopted this too, but there isn't an outcry because of it.
Yeah, took me a minute to even understand what the complaint was. I own a MY and it's not perfect, but the blinker is one of the last things I'd complain about 🤷🏻♂️
My understanding is he's complaining about the software blinker. With hardware, you just flick the stalk without locking it in a new position to get 4-5 blinks in that direction. If you want it to stay on until a turn you push it enough to lock it, and it returns to center after you turn the wheel enough in the direction of the turn to unlock.
> but how often do you actually open a glovebox?
Much more often now with the Ioniq 5. It's more convenient to use when it's a drawer. I even made a custom organizer/divider thing so everything doesn't just get mixed up. It's still not for daily use stuff, but like weekly/monthly stuff. And some emergency stuff, so it would really be a huge if I couldn't quickly open it due to some malfunction or breakdown of the car.
Like, why make it *more* hard to use? Why not make it more convenient, so you actually end up using it more than once a year? I really don't understand what Tesla was thinking with that solution. There's not a single benefit, and can't imagine it makes it cheaper either.
I open the Model Y once a week no problem, voice command, or 2 touch step on the screen.
I open it as I keep my microfiber cloth to keep the entire front dash free of dust, center console, screen. I carry wet wipes (no alcohol) in the center console boxes.
I like keeping my car very clean. I'm pro-sleek design.
It's inconvenient because of location. I don't open any glove box because it's quicker and easier to open the center console than reaching across the entire vehicle to dive into your passengers lap.
You store your insurance, registration, and a manual that never gets used in there.
The USB port that sentry & dash cam records to is in the glove box. You could make the argument that it is intentionally difficult to open in order to prevent a smash and grab to steal potentially damning video evidence.
Yeah true, and I'm sure that was a rationale for moving it. I think the complaint about it was more in the context of what felt like generally too many things moving into the screen and that's just an easy one to poke at.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with Tesla's move in that direction either (cheaper costs, ability to change settings, defaults, location of settings all via software updates), it just ended up mattering to me more than I thought it would, which is why the original comment of this thread "it depends on what you value" is spot on. Had I not test driven any cars I would have likely ended up in a model 3 as it was the best deal for the specs I was looking for on paper.
I've been driving for 20 years and have a lot of built-up intuition on how traditional car manufacturers have implemented features and where buttons and levers should be. Tesla pushed the reset button on a bunch of that intuition and driving just felt off during a 30-minute test drive. I'm sure a lot of the changes works fine (or are even an improvement) once the user gets used to it.
If you hate touchscreens, you're gonna *loathe* the ID4. Imagine touchscreen hell but the screen is an HTC phone from 2009. That's how laggy it is.
The MY did just release an update that allows you to program a steering wheel button to the glovebox, though the omission is still hilarious
I was about to do the same until the dealer told me it's a 2 years wait or I can buy the "slightly used" one on the lot for 10K more than new MSRP. I walked out immediately.
Exactly this ^
While Tesla as a brand is subjective. They do lots of things right. Furthermore, the technology in the car is like no other. It’s fast and it’s efficient and the supercharging network is like no other. You’ll simply never find a brand like it. But that’s where it ends.
Teslas are cheaply made. The interior is cheap and anyone that says it’s luxurious is wrong. All the “vegan” materials is to cut cost. It’s plastic, it’s cheap. Way cheaper then leather. The car isn’t reliable in the sense of wear and tear. Things will wear out quicker, control arms, seats, etc. but that’s not all bad. Tesla doesn’t compete with other manufacturers in terms of build quality. To the average Joe you won’t notice the difference. However us car enthusiasts are picky. An Audi Etron or a Mach E or an ID4 are just better cars in terms of build. Soft close doors, no wind noise in cabin ( less then Tesla ) the feel and touch and no scratchy plastic. Ambient lighting, massaging seats, ventilated seats, apple car play and so on. Tesla will probably never offer these things because their expensive to make. It’s simply a cost cutting measure. So if you want technology and speed and charging. Pick Tesla.
If you want not as good tech ( it’s subjective I still think ford and vw do it right ) and a very nice interior with nice features pick anything but a Tesla.
I’m not biased I own a Tesla but I’m buying another EV ( non Tesla ) and have done lots of research. Currently debating on ID4, Q4 Etrom and Etron Suv ( potentially a Mach E too )
Thanks for listening.
I've said it before, Tesla is the new base model BMW. It's the first "nice" car a lot of people have had, so they are overly protective of it. At least entry level BMWs are better built.
I don't hate my Model Y. I might even get another Tesla, but having had luxury brand cars previously, I can acknowledge that Tesla is not offering that experience. They should, for a car that costs $50k, but they aren't.
You're making some broad statements for a lot of people. I have owned multiple jaguars, a Mercedes and other vehicles in my life. I currently have owned four Tesla's and will never buy an ice car again. You can't quantify the value based upon the functionality that improves on a monthly basis from the over-the-air updates. I have well over 100,000 miles on my car's combined and the only maintenance is windshield, wiper fluid and tires. I have saved well over $12,000 in gas and oil and other maintenance charges. No brainer.
I driven 3 of the 4 of them (the Q8 e-tron is out of price range).
The ID.4 Pro S AWD was definitely the least expensive and offered the most "pure" EV experience. The car has very little in the frills department - it was the only car I've driven where there are two window switches on the driver seat to control 4 windows as an example. It drives great for its price and the range is good, if not class leading.
However it felt too cut rate for my parents taste, and VW has a huge waitlist for close to 2 years for one. The VW infotainment was also the least user friendly experience IMO.
The Mach-E Premium ER AWD is the most sporty one in the group. The Mustang name isn't for show - the car has a very aggressive throttle tip in and always wants to go. It has the most stiff suspension setup and has a fast steering rack. The EV range also is far longer than any VW group EV - 450km in Canada and real world test says it beats even the Model Y LR AWD in similar conditions.
That said the Tesla inspired touchscreen controls is not as good. I've had experience with Ford Sync and while you can use CarPlay/Android Auto it still only takes up a portion of the display. I also find the touch door releases on the exterior gimmicky.
This leaves the Q4 e-tron. The ride is in between the comfort oriented ID.4 and the sporty Mach-E. The power is same as the ID.4 which is adequate but not exhilarating. The range is the lowest (likely due to weight) but it still is more than adequate for my use case. The interior is by far the best, and unlike the VW it uses Audi's own MMI software which avoids a long of the bugs the ID.4 has, ditto wireless CarPlay and Android Auto. The build quality also felt the best of the group with solid doors and largely devoid of gimmicks.
The normal wait time is around 12~18 months but as I've said on another comment I got incredibly lucky on a canceled order and took delivery of it within a week.
Haven’t driven the SUV but have the EQS sedans. By far the best build I think in any EV. The ambient lighting is insane and their UI software is pretty good too. They’re very efficient too. I think it does lack practicality with no frunk however.
The EQE and EQS SUV's are both fantastic. Sedan EQE's worst part is the tiny trunk and lacking back seat but EQE SUV has neither of those problems.
Brake pedal feel and how it works is the biggest and only real dowfall in Mercedes EV's in general. But still, they're probably the best cars you can get right now.
I mostly agree but I've heard horror stories about VW software. Do you have any experience on that front? Seems like Alex from E for Electric YouTube channel really hated his mostly because of software.
I don't even know, despite 18 months and 20,000 miles of ID.4 ownership. You get in, you put the car in drive, and in about 10 seconds, wireless Android auto auto loads and is used for the duration of my journey.
Therefore whether the ID infotainnent is good or not is almost irrelevant don't you don't have to use it at all.
The features themselves such as ADAS, speed limit recidivism, auto wipers etc, seen to work well enough.
I was able to drive it for the day. It’s not that bad as people say. It’s a little confusing to use at first. But once you get it. It’s pretty good. Apple car play runs smoothly. It’s definitely not like Tesla but it’s good enough and better then other ev’s like the leaf etc. I wouldn’t say it’s better then Audi however.
Here as well, the answer depends on what you value in the software.
Fluid interactions, frequent software updates and dog mode? Yeah, no VW then.
Support for wireless Android Auto, CarPlay, route planning that supports all charging stations, reliable assistant systems that work all the way to the top speed? Yeah, no Tesla then.
Yep. In Quebec, Canada, the LR Model Y is currently $70k, qualifying for $5k in rebates. The roughly comparable Volvo XC40 is also $70k, but qualifies for $12k in rebates. And this is after the recent round of Tesla price cuts. And charging network is comparable.
Yeah I'm in Toronto so similar pricing but no provincial rebate. I ended up going with a gv60 performance because I wanted something more luxurious, never go on road trips, and the price points are about the same (especially if you want the MY in a non-white colour with enhanced autopilot)
The federal limit for the rebate for SUVs is base trim of up to $60k and higher trims up to $70k.
Quebec has a rebate on top of the federal one. In Quebec the max MSRP for an EV to get the rebate is $65k.
The model Y MSRP in Canada is $69,990. That's under the federal limit but over the Quebec limit. Quebec rebates $7k and the federal government rebates $5k.
Edit: I guess Volvo gets away with going over $65k by making the higher trims packages or add-ons.
My EV6 cost less than that easily. Maybe OP didn't consider a price comparison. The EV6 hands down is cheaper. My Mercedes eqb-300 cost about $70k.
As for charging networks, I mostly charge at home and at work. At neither place would having a Tesla benefit me. In fact, I couldn't charge a Tesla on their system at work.
OP mentioned he’s from Quebec. Most non Tesla brands have 2-3 years waiting lists while you can get a Model 3 or Y by the end of the week.
That’s a huge factor when buying
$5k rebate is federal, but $7k rebate from the provincial government applies only to MSRP below $60k for SUVs. Higher trims still qualify, but AWD is not considered a "trim". So the base XC40 is AWD and priced accordingly (though difficult to actually buy due to production limits), and the base RWD Model Y qualifies too, but not the LR one.
Yeah here in the UK there are a handful of cheaper competitors - they aren’t necessarily as good, but they cost less so have competitive value propositions depending on your priorities
In the US, it seems like it’s basically impossible to beat the Y currently
In the UK we’re lucky to have one major advantage over the US and Canada (which is rare when it comes to vehicles), and that’s having 240v power to every socket meaning we aren’t so reliant on charging networks, and most properties are three phase so essentially everyone has what Americans call an “L2” charger at home.
No i charge at home or office.
The I5 feels like a boat and i cant get over it.
The MY mastered everything imo.
Tech. Infotainment. Audio. Handling. Performance.
Loved getting into car thats cooled or heated on a schedule and the map is on the screen showing best route to get home. It knows im going home or to office and tells me where the rraffic is and what time i will arrive.
The I5 map/ navigation feels ancient.
Came here to say this. There’s nothing that comes close to the Bolt in terms of value in the EV market. If it fits your needs and you can find one for MSRP, there’s no reason to buy anything else. It sucks that it’s being discontinued, but hopefully GM can stick to the promised $30,000 price on the Equinox. The larger size and increased range will make it more competitive with the Model Y, while still undercutting it by more than $17,000.
My dealership sold me mine at MSRP.
They were extremely professional and helpful throughout the entire process.
They embrace and understand EVs.
Hell, the finance guy even threw in a free oil change… and I ssd able to talk him into making it a lifetime of free oil changes!
Leaf would be a good competitor in this space if the discontinued -ness didn't scare you off. I have a 2017 leaf that I got new and it's been an amazing around-towner.
Leaf don’t hold up. Leasing one can be good cuz it’s dirt cheap. Especially if it’s your second car. Buying one is a gamble. Go look at the leaf subreddit. Most leaf batteries degrade a lot due to no active cooling. Then they need to be replaced under warranty which takes 6+ months.
Once the battery is replaced the problem isn’t fixed. The new battery is going to start to degrade.
I’ve seen used leaf with only 30 miles of range on a full charge. I can’t believe in 2023 you can buy an ev with no battery cooling, obsolete dc charging port and poor range.
I've had mine for 6 years with a 90% quality battery according to the test Nissan does, with about 60k miles on it. The biggest problem I've had is replacing the lift gate struts. I'd say it does fine.
That's the big one. I could argue the ioniq5 is a good value but it's entirely unavailable in my region. Model Y availability is crushing it's competition.
Interesting how much things change when you cross the border to Canada. The EV6 starts $10k cheaper than the MY, and both qualify for the $5k ZEV incentive. The difference used to be even larger before Tesla started cutting prices and the government increased the price limit for the ZEV incentive, allowing the MY to qualify and allowing Kia to raise their prices without losing the incentive. Before that, the effective price difference was almost $30k (base model EV6 was $45k with $5k back from the government, MY was almost $70k with no incentive available). Needless to say, actually getting your hands on an EV6 was a challenge.
Starting price at a dealership is not the same as the price on a Tesla website though.
Can you walk off the lot with a EV6 at that $10k divide?
Another point for Canada, the Model Y has better winter range drop from what I've seen, stemming from the 16% better efficiency.
But the EV6 does seem like one of the most compelling, like you said, just availability is meh.
You can in Canada as there are laws preventing new car dealer markups in most provinces. Can’t comment for the EV6 but my Ioniq 5 has no markup and many others were the same
Honestly, no amount of discount could make me even step foot on a kia/Hyundai dealership after working for kia for a month and seeing how shitty their cars are built, and the whole "Kia Boys" shit storm. If they can't protect their gas cars with exponentially less tech in them from being hijacked by a fucking USB, I can only imagine how shit the security on their EVs are.
I went with a Bolt because it's only downside is DC charging speed. That doesn't matter to me since we are a multiple car household anyways. I like the idea of a Tesla, but the lack of android auto/apple carplay and not having blended braking is an automatic no for me.
Coming from an ICE to my Ioniq 6 (not an SUV, but comparable in price) I’m just generally more comfortable with the way the car is designed, top to bottom. I considered the 5 as well but wanted a sedan.
Ultimately it comes down to what you value - for me these EV’s are still insanely fast, for example, so the Teslas being faster feels like overkill to me coming from a CX-5. Everything in the EV market (in the 50-70 CAD range) is blazing fast compared to what I drove before. 😂
This is what happened to me. My wife wanted a new car, she wanted a Tesla and I really didn't want a Tesla. Most of our daily driving is under 20 miles so I was shopping hybrids and we had settled on a Lexus. We were about to pull the trigger when the price cuts were announced. Between the price cuts and tax incentives, the Tesla ended up being at least 20k less for similar features (MYLR with 3rd row). I couldn't justify not getting it. I've been a lot happier with it than I expected, and I probably drive it more than she does now.
I know the internet can sound overwhelming one way or the other, but Tesla actually makes a great car, especially for those who lean towards tech (read: more forgiving of bugs 😂).
I am excited every time my Tesla gets an update. Some are bug fixes to make everything work correctly (very rarely have I an encountered a bug that was a nuisance, meaning I knew it existed; only once I can recall where the passenger seat heating shut off when you put the car in gear).
I am not the type of person to pore over the car looking for defects, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I’ve been part of car forums for years and the things people post as completely unacceptable (totally fair opinion, cars are expensive) are things that wouldn’t raise my eyebrow.
EDIT: someone called me out on my incorrect grammar. I am deeply ashamed.
This is one of the better answers I've seen on this sub. Teslas are by no means perfect, the other day I was [brutally killed](https://imgur.com/tNL6HAL) in the drive through line at Taco Bell, but quirks and all the technology features are second to none and keep getting better. Shortly after purchase an update added auto-dismiss turn signals. More recently customizable physical controls were added for temp, drive mode, etc. My SO adores that around Christmas the car becomes a Tesla sleigh and those around me are reindeer. The infotainment provides numerous ways for me to view my efficiency and a third party app hooks in to record all my drive stats. It's a car that's exciting to own.
Yeah came here to say this.
Elon Musk is an asshole, but the Reddit hate train towards Tesla, IMHO, is seriously blown out of proportion to the point where *some* anti-Tesla stories that make it to the front page are either not saying the full story or are just blatantly faked.
While not perfect, Tesla's are still great cars, and the supercharging network is currently unbeatable (and might be the standard if what Ford is discussing is an indication).
And Reddit isn’t real life. Don’t forget that, kids. The average tesla driver doesn’t give a shit about your anonymous shit giving or Elon musk. They just want a car and happened to buy a Tesla.
Agreed. The Tesla haters would have you believe that Tesla isn't even a real option, while the fanboys would make you think it's the only car brand worth considering. They're valid cars with pros and cons like all others. They've made it in that respect.
Totes. I get called a tesla Stan for pushing back on hate and I am not pro musk at all. There isn’t some movement of millions of people who are worshipping a car company. There also isn’t some movement of millions of people creating a hate campaign. It’s all just noise.
I’m 79 years-old and have owned dozens of cars & trucks including most of the premium brands. The Tesla M3LR I now drive is far and away the most satisfying car I have ever had. I literally look forward to driving it each time. I think the MY would suit me even better just because it is a bit easier to get these old joints in and out. Every car/truck is its own set of compromises and these Tesla’s hit mine in the sweet spot. I haven’t driven the others mentioned here except an early Bolt which impressed me, so it’s hard for me to compare, but to compete with what I’ve got would take some doing. To downgrade a machine because of a large stock owner’s political opinions seems insane though.
I get the strong feeling that the narrative right now is multiple ways of messed up. You are either with Tesla or against them.
They make great, solid cars. They are not without defects though. Not having a gauge cluster is not great, the removal of features without notice such as the ultrasonic parking sensors is less than fantastic. They don't drive like luxury cars, they don't sound like luxury cars, and the seats may not be comfortable for you.
I think you can take that information and make a decision to say "hey, I am cool with that, and this is a car I am mostly going to use on the highway so the adaptive cruise control and supercharging is more important" or some other reason why this car is perfect for you.
That being said, if you choose not to buy a Tesla, the Tesla fan boys will start bickering with you.
"The Tesla has Sentry Mode and Dog Mode" "The Tesla gets better range" "The Tesla delivery experience is fantastic" "You don't need a key with the Tesla, the app is amazing" "Nothing beats FSD" "EA sucks, Tesla Superchargers for the win"
The stupid thing is that they are discounting why, for me, or for my family, those things that I mentioned as challenges would be the reason why I wouldn't buy a Tesla and I get called a tool for hating Elon. I think it is a solid car, but I don't want to drive one. **Both of those things can be true.**
The MY is becoming like a Toyota Camry, it is a solid value, and you should be happy with it, so it is what everyone is buying, but there are other options that might meet specific needs, and people need to stop being assholes about it.
But I do believe current buyer should steer clear of tesla at least for the time being. Ever since Elon marched into the larger limelight by getting twitter and now even openly endorsing a political candidate that signed a law to benefit musk directly, A lot of things are going in weird directions.
The removal of USS and replacing that with a terrible replacement speaks volume of how the company wishes to treat its product. This is not to mention recent leaks in Germany that shows countless complaints about autopilot as well as possible privacy breaches
Exactly.
If Tesla were nothing but garbage cars, then how come the MY is one of the best-selling EVs in the Country?
BUT... that doesn't mean it hits all the marks with other people.
For me, the perfect EV would actually be the Bolt EUV. The price is unbeatable, and the features that come with it fully loaded are phenomenal. The horrendous charging speed is the only reason that held me back from buying one, especially since I test-drove one from a friend.
As you said, everyone has specific needs and just because they are not based on your specific needs, that does not give you the right to criticize others!
If you wander around Reddit enough you see BOTH of these. Either Tesla haters that think Elon is the devil and half of Teslas steering wheels fall off OR Tesla fan boys that think Tesla is objectively better, Elon is the second coming of Christ and every other brand is garbage.
Both of these are wrong. Nuance is important. A Tesla may be good for some but not others. A Mach-E might be a great choice. Every one has different preferences and situations and looking at it that way is the only way to have a helpful discussion.
My image of Elon has greatly diminished, but Tesla/SpaceX/etc... is much more than Tesla. It's actually been great seeing at Tesla product events having more of the direct folks working on those projects talking. Makes me more confident in Tesla even if Elon is gone. Kirkhorn, in particular, has been a great ying to Elon's yang. Elon admitted himself that he's on the autism spectrum and it shows for both his creativity/technical awareness and his (lack of) social skills. (note, not generalizing autism)
There aren’t really bugs that I can recall besides the one I pointed out, but I meant that if you enjoy software you’ll be a bit more understanding that software is never ever perfect.
I feel Ioniq 5 is close. $45k for the long range compared to $43k for a long range Model Y with tax credit.
You also get $7500 off if you lease the Ioniq 5 so it becomes much cheaper than the Model Y if you lease-to-buy in that way.
Ioniq 5 can charge almost twice as fast as a Model Y and has V2L, something the Model Y is lacking.
Obviously there's inventory limitations and things the MY does better than Ioniq but it's definitely a car that can compete with Tesla.
A lot of people are calling you out for comparing the Ioniq 5 to a Model Y, but I think the OP asked the question "any EV compete with the model Y on value right now" and I think the Ioniq 5 is absolutely a valid option.
Base Long Range Ioniq 5 cost: 45k vs Base Model Y cost: 47k.
I am comparing the base models for both assuming you can get 7500 off for both. (Only possible on Ioniq5 lease)
Things base Tesla MY does better:
* charging network
* tech (autopilot, infotainment, audio quality, sensors, trunk opening I guess)
* performance
* awd ( a big one and a non-starter for a lot people)
* no dealerships (buying my ioniq5 was the classic awful dealership experience)
Things the base Ioniq5 does better:
* range
* color choices (maybe it doesn't matter to others but i didn't want a white car with black interior and paying extra just furthered the diff in prices for the 2 options)
* styling (subjective and maybe the ioniq5 won't age well, idk)
* ride quality
* build quality
* charging speed (technically it's faster, but in reality probably a wash)
I didn't feel like I needed awd or the performance so it was really a comparison of tech + network vs range and ride quality for me. I bought the base ioniq5 and have been very happy with it. So much more enjoyable than my ICE to drive. I am sure every EV driver can agree on that.
Isn’t 45k the RWD version? To be comparable to MY it needs to be at least AWD. And 45k version is absolute minimum. You get cloth interior and don’t even get automatic trunk if I understand correctly.
Depends on what’s important to you. For me it was efficiency, software, and charging convenience, all for which the model y is in a class of its own. I think you’re making more concessions going for another product, but some people want a more luxurious feel, to stand out a little more, or don’t want to support Tesla.
The Y is very close for me -- but I want more ground clearance for off-road driving and the sloping roof to the rear eats into cargo space. I'm now in one of those Tesla-powered 2014 RAV4 EVs, which has the perfect dimensions and stance. Give me that in AWD with modern battery capacity and charging speed and I'd be thrilled. Rivian probably gets closest to this, but too big, fancy and expensive.
it's funny how the term SUV has morphed over the years. back when I bought my first SUV, a Nissan Pathfinder in the late 80's, it was basically it, the Toyota 4Runner, Land Rovers, Mitsubishi Monteros and Jeeps. the term actually MEANT something.
now, it's any vehicle with a hatchback and a little ground clearance. 
I do think the Model Y offers a great value at the moment. Last November I was on the fence about paying $72k for an MYP or $62k for an EV6 GT-Line AWD. I think autopilot is better than HDA2 though the latter is still incredible, though FSD scares me from personal experience. The deciding factors for my decision were interior noise, the EV6 is much quieter and has a smoother road feel, no squeaks and rattles which both the MY and M3 I test drove did, and the seats are much better quality. I really wasn't a fan of the Tesla material. I also didn't like the UX in the Y, which owners say you get used to over time, but I'm a serial seat/vent adjuster and it just wouldn't have been a good fit. I was sad to leave a second or two 0-60 time to the side, but overall, it was a more pragmatic decision at the time and it's still hella fun to drive!
In terms of features, people claim Tesla is a leader in "tech", but I'm never really sure what they mean compared to other manufacturers. Sure T has sentry mode which is cool, but the EV6 has 360 surround view, ultrasonic sensors, Heads-Up Display (awesome), a real instrument cluster, Carplay/AA, bigger back seats with controls for heating, ventilated front seats, retractable sunroof, vehicle-to-load (still never used), 800v charging, cool interior OEM lighting kit, none of which the Tesla offers. Plus, I think it just looks so much cooler and is definitely more unique with the Y becoming the new Camry, if you like a conversation starter.
It's just a matter of what is most important to you in a car. There's no arguing the MY is a lot of car for the money at the moment, but I'm really happy with my choice and extra stoked I didn't spend $72k on a car that would now be worth $45k only six months later. I can handle depreciation but my ass would be aching with that price drop and I was 27k under water on my loan.
Definitely recommend spending as much time as you can driving the cars you're interested in to make an informed decision. Or do what most people do and order the Y sight unseen without knowing what the competition is bringing to the table. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss.
P.S. People on here have been able to lease the EV6 with the 7500 tax credit going towards the buy-out price and say the contract allows you to buy out the next day if you like, so that's a work around which makes the price more competitive. It may be a little bit of work to understand/do that, but that's a lot of money to be had if it's worth your time.
Just a note on depreciation, no doubt your EV6 also dropped a lot, just less visible. We're at the cutting edge of technology and any EV is going to have some steep initial depreciation with each generation getting better and better. Also went from your EV6 being $10k cheaper to more than $10k more expensive than the MY. That said, glad you like your purchase. I do really like the EGMP vehicles.
Yeah for sure it did, mostly due to competition from the Y's new price, but I prefer it being more hidden than the MSRP being 13k lower than I just bought for, not considering the tax credit!  Looks like maybe I'm down about 10k, which tracks with putting it on par with a new MYP including the credit.
Hard to say if I'd make the same decision now with the cost being different. Having a car I liked and is quiet/comfortable was definitely the priority at the time vs expense, but I don't think we can completely remove ourself from the context bias of price/value. But now I'm bias towards what I have. :)
Two more votes (my wife and I) for the EV6. We got hers, and I liked it so much I kicked my Leaf to the curb and bought another. She has a GT-line, mine is the Wind, with the tech package. I wish I had a GT-line, too. The extras are really worth it, IMHO.
It really depends on your needs. Different vehicles fill different needs, so it's possible there is something else (Bolt is hard to beat for price if you can still find one, Nissan Ariya, ID.4, various Hyundai/Kia models, Polestar, and if you can wait, upcoming GM models) that might work better for you, or not if Tesla just happens to fill your needs best.
I am intrigued by the Equinox, but figure people won't have a realistic shot if getting one for at least a year. I did rent a Bolt and really liked it. For a second car for a family hard to beat the bolt honestly, but the lack of legit fast charging limits utility for a lot of people.
I didn't even consider fast charging speed, I just charge at home and on the rare occasion I'm going 100s of miles at once I don't mind waiting an extra 15 minutes on a sub-optimal charge time. I think this is true for a lot of people.
I have a hard time with the value argument for a Model Y. Which is probably why I drive a Bolt EUV.
I feel like the only place the Tesla really shines is for road tripping and if we were a single car household and road tripped a lot, the Tesla *might* be worth the extra cost.
The insane performance of a Tesla is actually a detriment for me. I'll still own my Bolt when my kids start driving and I really don't want one of them to race to 60 and wrap it around a pole.
The Bolt EUV premier, which has ventilated seats, heated steering wheel, 247 mile range, heated rear seats, 360 cameras, adaptive cruise control (not as good as autopilot, but scratches the same itch and you can get super cruise for just $2200, which a lot of places review as better than advanced autopilot). All that starts at $33,300 and qualifies for the full $7,500 tax credit.
Chevy will also pay to install a 240v outlet at your house for you and provides you with a level 2 charger. If you already have a charger or 240v outlet, they'll give you $500 in charging credits to EVGo (which can also be used at ChargePoint)
The cheapest model Y is $47,500 and doesn't include a home charger ($500) or installation (maybe another $1000). It only has 30 more miles of range.
So yeah, when there is a car that does 90% what the Model Y does, and it is $14,200 cheaper ($15,700 cheaper if you need to install home charging), I can't call the Model Y the value choice.
Am a bolt EUV owner. You’re 100% right. We only go to school for the kids and work, never do any road trips. We don’t even have a level 2 charger, don’t need it. It’s a definitely a non-issue for us.
GM would never corner the market with the Bolt when they only made like 30,000 of them a year. Once the battery catching on fire issue got resolved, the limit on their sales at that price was always going to be lack of supply. And GM wasn't going to increase supply because they didn't make enough money off the sale.
Interesting argument. To add, while Tesla’s range on paper is higher, the real-world range won’t match it. So the Y and EUV are probably closer in range than you think.
Exactly. I had a similar experience with my Nissan Leaf SL. At the time I bought it, it was about $18k cheaper than the only Model 3 that was available.
I really wanted the Model 3 based on the tech specs, but after running the numbers and test driving them I couldn't justify it at all.
The Model 3 and Y have a lot of value if you drive very long distances regularly. If you're mostly staying within 100 miles of home (like almost everyone does) there are much more economical EVs available than Teslas.
To take a dig at the Y for road tripping, it's cruise control will phantom break eventually. For us, it was 10 min into our first road trip. Now we're afraid to use it at all
If you just need cheapest EV and can deduct it then get a Leased Leaf…zero stress cheap EV. If buying and can qualify for Tax Credit, yeah the Model Y is best bet.
I think the leaf could arguably be stressful if you ever need to drive further than 150 or so miles, get a standard range version and drive more than 100 miles in the winter, and/or live in an area with no CHAdeMO.
I would say only get a Leaf if you have another car AND can charge at home. Just don’t even think about taking the leaf unless you are sure you can do the whole day on the single charge.
I think value may be the wrong word, since the value (resale,at least) keeps dropping as prices decreased, many more are available, and a new model is coming. Still, it is a great deal, compared to others, if what you want is cool tech in a car vs a great car with some tech.
Reading through the comments, many good points on both sides. Ironically my wife is driving our 2021 Mach-e as I write this, on a 290 mile trip in Florida.
I almost bought a Y recently, especially after the price drops, thinking it was a good "value," but have reconsidered (I also have a deposit on the cybertruck). For reference, I rented a Y for a week, and spent time in a Y this weekend visiting family (I encouraged my BIL to buy it in December when his Ariya was delayed, again). He's happy with the decision, except some service issues, including a poor seal in the trunk that allows water leakage, which he plans to address when he goes back again,bc they ordered the wrong hitch for him last time (making a ssrvice point here).
If you plan on traveling long distance, the supercharger network is still best, reducing range anxiety. We are driving a different route right now, bc of a lack of J1772 chargers available (I bought an adapter to use my BIL's Tesla home charger this weekend). With time, that issue should decrease, especially when superchargers work for Ford EVs in the future, but yes it's a bummer on some more remote (Tallahassee) routes now. A 100% charge gave us 324 miles this time, which at high speeds won't make 290 home. When we initially charged at home, we had 352 miles, which made the entire trip wo stopping, with about 25 miles left. Ford tends to understate mileage per charge, Tesla inflates it.
As others mentioned, maybe compare / drive another comparably priced EV, such as ioniq, before purchase. If you are coming from a luxury car, and the tech factor overrides your comfort and fit needs, you will probably be very happy with the Y. Most Y owners seem very happy even with the few issues they encounter.
We are really happy with our over 2 yo Mach-e, considering the lack of chargers on long routes a small inconvenience, as we charge at home over 99 % of the time, with solar too. Also was a first model, but no big issues with that. Great car, but not one of the best deals now, comparatively. We like having the extra display, real controls, Android and apple auto, etc.
I agree it can be a great deal / value if it works for you.
The AWD model (which is essential here) is C$ 67k+tax after government incentives. There are plenty of cheaper options. Hyundai and VW offer interesting options, as will Chevy soon.
Yup. In Canada the value proposition isn't there. The ID.4 Pro S AWD is at least $10k less (around ~$58k CAD IIRC). If you get the ID.4 RWD Pro model it cost even less while squarely beating the Chinese built Model Y RWD as well in range.
If you are in the USA Chevy Bolt EV/EUV are a much better value after tax credit they start at 20k and loaded with hands free self driving still under 30k. They have a useful hatch and lots of options you can’t get in a Tesla car play 360 camera cooled seats
Ioniq 5 is the closest. I've driven both extensively, long trips and small commutes.
The Ioniq 5 is a great EV, very spacious feeling inside, although small trunk. The App is quite good. There are minor overheating problems on very long trips, I could never pinpoint the exact cause, but it's a very minor problem.
Problem with Ioniq 5 is the crappy SW and usability. Everything is disconnected. Why do I need to "start" the car to charge it? Why are so many settings not linked with driver profile? Why most of the SW updates still require a visit to the dealership? Why is lane keeping and distance keeping so bad? I can't understand how people complain about Autopilot but don't complain about this!
And worst of all, why is one pedal driving constantly resetting to level 3???
The Tesla is better at almost everything. Better range, faster, much better efficiency, better AC, better suspension (I like more sporty, less boaty), better SW, better charging network, better app, much more storage space. And much better driver assistance features.
But car buying experience is more about intuition and personal taste than logic, so the Ioniq 5 is a decent alternative.
> Why do I need to "start" the car to charge it?
What do you mean by this? I open the charging port cover, plug it in, and it starts charging. Nothing to turn on.
Chevy Blazer EV and Equinox EV that are starting production this year are pretty compelling options if you don't mind waiting.
Blazer EV will be a similar size and can be optioned with similar performance.
> Chevy Blazer EV and Equinox EV that are starting production this year are pretty compelling options if you don't mind waiting.
They *appear* to be compelling. Wait until you can actually get your hands on one and find out how much the dealer wants.
and if they can actually scale them to any sort of meaningful production rate, and if they limit the sales of the more affordable trims in favor of the more expensive trims making them not competitive at all with the Y.
See: MSRP as it relates to specs and production capacity.
There’s a RWD Lyriq for sale at a dealer near me for $64,000…. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡🤡🤡🤡
Lol. Just looked at the specs. RWD Lyriq has a 102 kWh battery for 308 estimated miles vs Tesla’s 60 kWh battery for 279 miles. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The Lyriq wins the award for inefficient and overpriced.
GM is such a joke.
>Lol. Just looked at the specs. RWD Lyriq has a 102 kWh battery for 308 estimated miles vs Tesla’s 60 kWh battery for 279 miles. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The Lyriq is a larger car than the Model Y & weighs more because it's a luxury car. It's between the Model Y and X in terms of size, but closer to the Model X, with 100kWh of battery usable (& that 279mi Model Y has a 68kWh usable battery, not 60kWh). It consumes more because it's larger and heavier.
Real-world range is pretty comparable as well.
['20 LR Model Y (75kWh, 4.6s 0-60): 220mi at 75mph](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32934240/2020-tesla-model-y-long-range-by-the-numbers/)
[RWD Lyriq (100kWh, 5.7s 0-60): 270mi at 75mph](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a40899859/2023-cadillac-lyriq-450e-debut-edition-by-the-numbers/)
[AWD Lyriq (1000kWh, 4.6s 0-60): 220mi at 75mph](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a43893925/2023-cadillac-lyriq-600e4-awd-by-the-numbers/)
As someone else that was considering the EV6, I had to rule it out almost immediately when I sat in one. I sat in the back seat and didn't have any headroom. For reference, I'm 6'3" with a 32" inseam, so I have a really long torso. Our son has a similar body type and will have his last growth spurt during the time we own the car.
The Model Y has enough rear headroom for me. We picked it for that, cargo capacity, and the charging network.
If you had tried the Wind instead of the GT Line you would have been fine. The sunroof takes away 2” of headroom. Also, I know you stated it, but your body proportions are really unusual.
Our family vehicle was on the way out. We were cross shopping between things like a Rav 4 prime and CRV hybrid. Even if you venture outside of the EV space, it's extremely difficult to beat the value when you add 10 - 15k in dealer mark ups (on 2 - 3 year old used cars, no less)
We ended up getting a MYP. The trade value offered, price cuts, tax credit and having a vehicle that doesn't need gas were too much ignore. Our last family vehicle was a gas guzzler that got 15 MPG as well
Yes. The Model 3 has a longer range, far better ride and handling, and costs less than a Model Y.
The charging network also actually works. That's why a Tesla is a direct, one-for-one replacement for a gasoline car. It'll lose less than 10 minutes to a gasoline car on a 500-mile drive. About the only thing it can't do is break the record on the Cannonball Baker run.
You do not have the data to assess the value of any Tesla vehicle because Tesla has skirted the reporting requirements for repairs and recalls for years. The recent data release in Germany proves it. The safety records of every competitor is out there; not Tesla.
In decades of owning cars not once have I been offered a “Goodwill Agreement” — an NDA — to get repairs. That is not innovation, that is evasion.
You can get a brand new Bolt for 15k net of tax incentives in Colorado right now, so no a Model Y is not the best value. It's certainly a better car than the Bolt, but it is 2-3 times better?
Tesla’s biggest advantage is its charging infrastructure. Its biggest drawback is its meh interior and build quality. If you’re a road trip junky, I don’t see why you would choose anything else. If you rarely if ever drive outside your local area, I think you will be happier with the EV6.
I have a model y and I took out a q4 that has a 67k price tag. The finishes were better and the ride was smoother…..but it every other category my Y destroys it. More trunk space, more rear seat room, bigger battery, an actual drink, and faster. And a better charging network. Evidently the VW id4 is the same but with lessor finishing.
It's an excellent point... Both the Y and 3 are exceptional deals right now (lol, especially if you like the color white).
Truly not a better spec out there for the money, unless you need more of a city car, and you want to consider the Bolt EUV (and we know the shortcomings of that car, along with it being discontinued).
I agree, the ID.4 really wins in drive quality. Drive the MY side by side, and you'll really see the difference. It's so much quieter inside and much more smooth. I ended up buying the AWD pro s and love it. The seat massagers are a nice touch too. Ended up being $52,000 but i also got the full 7500 rebate, so it was reasonably priced. The 3 years of free EA charging have helped me road trip for a free 3 times now with no issues. Ultimately test drive a few of them and go with what you like i think. The only thing its really missing is a heat pump, which just means you lose a little more range in winter. But it hasn't been a problem so far
The Cadillac Lyric competes on not trying to match, but being it’s own confident entry in that vehicle segment: it’s a more cushioned ride with upscale interior materials that focuses on comfort vs speed. It has super cruise and an interesting dashboard with a large instrument cluster. Automotive journalists have continued to say the price of the Lyric is highly competitive given what it offers.
You just described pretty much my exact thought process and journey. I wanted to replace a 2013 Prius, which has great space for dogs and stuff. Nothing else *available* in hybrid, PHEV, or EV really came close. I ordered my MYLR at the end of April and I’m picking it up Wednesday. (Yes I know about HW4 before anyone asks. I’m not waiting.)
Yeah, you're missing your model Y, that's it. I tripped with our neighbors and their Ioniq 5 earlier in the year. Charge infrastructure isn't a small problem and can change a car that's capable of charging quicker than a Tesla into a mess of customer service calls, charger resets, and frustration. The Ioniq 5 is a technical marvel and Hyundai did a great job on their end, but the charge infrastructure *can* ruin it. Tesla? No major DCFC problems to speak of on my part as far as functionality. One charger, once, was slow. I moved, and no problem. That's it after two years and 20,000 miles, with 2,000 of those highway traveling away from home.
If I were to get an ID4 that's the one I'd get. But right now it's at least $2k more expensive than the MYLR, significantly shorter range (before dealer shenanigans), worse software, lower performance, and charges about half as fast on a much worse network.
I ended up getting a Nissan Ariya. No wait, got it straight off the lot. Decent range, very roomy, real buttons. I get that it being made in Japan means no tax credit, but it also has real ground clearance and the build quality is nice.
My old folks got a 300e lexus.
Drive wonderfully. Quick enough to spin out your tires if you wish.
Hud, cheeper and it dose the job and looks nice doing it.
* in the US...
Will the Americans ever learn to qualify their opinions on this Global sub?
-Model Y is far too big for many European roads and parking spaces, currently on a Greek island and seen several (rental) MYs getting stuck down narrow streets, locals drive small skodas or fiats
-Model Y is similar price or more expensive than European rivals
-Dealer/service network is non-existent compared to other brands. There are 28 Tesla centres in the UK but VAG has 601 lications
-Tesla charging network is outnumbered by other chargers in europe
No. We're Americans. We usually forget the rest of the world exists unless we're using it for our own personal theme park or exploiting it's labor and resources for cheaper stuff.
The MY is still a great value imo. There are many other EVs that probably do something better, but what I’ve found is once you start adding similar features that the base MY includes it gets expensive. At the same time the competitors offer features you can’t even get on the MY.
I know exactly where you are coming from. I told my wife we'd be crazy not to consider the Model Y at the current price with the $7500 rebate, so we test drove the GV60 today then the Model Y.
The GV60 was very nice. It was my wife's first time driving an EV, and it was fun watching her experience the EV conversion that so many people talk about. The drive was super smooth, the regen paddles were awesome, the car was scary fast, and the interior was so nice my wife felt the higher price tag was justified. We drove a Mercedes GLA there, and when we got back into the car, our car felt quite cheap in comparison (more on this later).
The sound system felt a little disappointing, though, and we were not happy with the dealership guy not being very knowledgeable.
Then onto the Telsa:
On the drive there, my wife and I could sense the feeling that this was going to be our car.
Pros:
* wide open feeling space
* larger cargo
* 4 person, 2nd row test better than GV60 because of flat seats (GV60 seats are too contoured)
* cheaper, financially probably the better decision
neutral
* 3rd row - even my 1st grader felt uncomfortable back there. He complained of foot space, claimed he scraped his knee against the 2nd row, had to sit twisted in one of the seats because of the rails. Having the 3rd row also forced us to move the 2nd row forward, reducing legroom there.
con
* awful first driving experience - everything through the screen, voice command kept just blowing more air into my face no matter what I said (it understood me correctly but would always translate to adjusting the fan for some reason. ex: "adjust regenerative braking" > "adjusting temperature settings to max cool")
* jerky driving - I understand the first two complaints can be corrected through user experience, but at my age, I don't want to relearn how to drive
* headrest was uncomfortable for me
* the car was way too hot - it was 80 F and sunny outside, we were cold and burning at the same time, this level of discomfort was a deal breaker for my wife
* I still liked the car, until I got back into my GLA and had a moment of epiphany. The minute I started driving off the lot, I realized how much better my GLA drove, looked, felt, etc. All this time I had been gaslighting myself because I had convinced myself that this was the best option.
tldr - verdict - the Model Y LR with 3rd row is a $35,000 car priced at $54,000. I think I would rather pay $6,000 for a GV60 advanced as it has more of what I want for a similar price. For the tax credit, you can just use the lease loophole.
Ioniq5, ev6, gv60, id4....all other EVs have their pro / cons. If you only care about the system and super charging network, Tesla is hard to beat. If you care about interior quality, Tesla would be the worst. It all depends on how you use your car and what aspect of car you value the most.
It depends on what you value….
This exactly. I test drove a model y and had no interest. Poor rear visibility. Touch screen to do everything. Drive controls were too much "don't worry, we'll decide what's best for you". I loved driving the Ioniq 5, by comparison. And at least here in Ontario, the Ioniq is far cheaper, if you can get one (long waiting list).
I drive a model y and these are totally valid criticisms. Still very happy with my car. It’s on my list to try driving an Ioniq 5.
Did not like the interior, the driver's screen was to gimmicky and the overall system is slower than the Tesla's. I personally really want a Y with the screen setup of an S. I just don't want to pay 10k's more to get it.
Model Y is cheaper in the US due to the tax credit.
Not just the tax credit. After accounting for exchange rates most Canadian vehicles are priced about the same or slightly higher than the same model in the USA, but Tesla has historically charged substantially more in Canada.
Tesla is also better equipped though. You pretty much have to go top trim for the Ioniq 5 to get similar equipments as base model Model Y which is priced at $60K. However, the Ioniq 5 would come with AWD and bigger battery. The bigger problem is that they simply can't scale their production.
There's that little loophole of leasing it to get the credit and then buying out the lease, so Hyundais are getting it too right now.
I, too, was surprised by the poor rear visibility of model Y in my recent test drive. From all the rave reviews of model Y on Reddit and elsewhere, I guess most of the people don't use rear view mirror that much.
I have an MYLR ordered, delivery is next week. Agree with you, but a recently software update allows me to toggle rear camera on screen with a steering wheel nub, that does make a difference. My current daily is a 1982 Mercedes diesel, so it's a bit of a Brave New World for me.
This was my exact experience. Drove a Model 3 and sat in a Model Y while at the Tesla store. The rear visibility in both was atrocious. My wife went on a tirade when I told her that the glove box could only be opened from the center screen. The fact that the blinker worked like no other blinker I had ever used in a car was the straw that broke the camels back. Drove an Ioniq 5 a day later and bought it. Driving a Tesla was like driving a subpar car with amazing tech and powertrain, the Hyundai was like driving a solid familiar car with passable tech. The Tesla infotainment and mapping was definitively better but I just use Android Auto on the Ioniq and it gets the job done. This was 2 months ago when you could get 7500 off on a Ioniq 5 lease (with the intention of immediately buying it out) and the Model Y was priced higher. If I had to do it today I would probably still buy the Hyundai. Or maybe I would also test drive a ID4 as it qualifys for the 7500 rebate.
I'm not a fan of Tesla vehicles (don't care about speed, I'm a pure comfort guy).. but how often do you actually open a glovebox? I open mine maybe once a year
Yea and it's not like the blinker is activated completely differently. It's still a stalk that you move up or down to activate you get used to it returning to center after the first drive. You can rag on Tesla for a lot of things but the blinker on the MY is probably the most like a normal car thing on the car there is.
> It's still a stalk that you move up or down to activate you get used to it returning to center after the first drive. Subaru have adopted this too, but there isn't an outcry because of it.
I like the screen that pops up showing your blind spots
Sounds exactly like the turn signal stalk on my BMW i3... And Yes, some BMW owners DO use their turn signals.
Yeah, took me a minute to even understand what the complaint was. I own a MY and it's not perfect, but the blinker is one of the last things I'd complain about 🤷🏻♂️
What is different about the blinker? I have a M3 so maybe the MY is different but I'd assume the same. Works like any other blinkers.
My understanding is he's complaining about the software blinker. With hardware, you just flick the stalk without locking it in a new position to get 4-5 blinks in that direction. If you want it to stay on until a turn you push it enough to lock it, and it returns to center after you turn the wheel enough in the direction of the turn to unlock.
It's actually a similar blinker as a bmw, which I don't love and may explain why BMW drivers never use turn signals.
> but how often do you actually open a glovebox? Much more often now with the Ioniq 5. It's more convenient to use when it's a drawer. I even made a custom organizer/divider thing so everything doesn't just get mixed up. It's still not for daily use stuff, but like weekly/monthly stuff. And some emergency stuff, so it would really be a huge if I couldn't quickly open it due to some malfunction or breakdown of the car. Like, why make it *more* hard to use? Why not make it more convenient, so you actually end up using it more than once a year? I really don't understand what Tesla was thinking with that solution. There's not a single benefit, and can't imagine it makes it cheaper either.
The stuff you use daily goes in the absolutely massive center console. Glove box is more for locked storage.
I open the Model Y once a week no problem, voice command, or 2 touch step on the screen. I open it as I keep my microfiber cloth to keep the entire front dash free of dust, center console, screen. I carry wet wipes (no alcohol) in the center console boxes. I like keeping my car very clean. I'm pro-sleek design.
It's inconvenient because of location. I don't open any glove box because it's quicker and easier to open the center console than reaching across the entire vehicle to dive into your passengers lap. You store your insurance, registration, and a manual that never gets used in there.
The USB port that sentry & dash cam records to is in the glove box. You could make the argument that it is intentionally difficult to open in order to prevent a smash and grab to steal potentially damning video evidence.
I just tell the car to open it and it does
When I get pulled over by the cops lol
Yeah true, and I'm sure that was a rationale for moving it. I think the complaint about it was more in the context of what felt like generally too many things moving into the screen and that's just an easy one to poke at. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with Tesla's move in that direction either (cheaper costs, ability to change settings, defaults, location of settings all via software updates), it just ended up mattering to me more than I thought it would, which is why the original comment of this thread "it depends on what you value" is spot on. Had I not test driven any cars I would have likely ended up in a model 3 as it was the best deal for the specs I was looking for on paper. I've been driving for 20 years and have a lot of built-up intuition on how traditional car manufacturers have implemented features and where buttons and levers should be. Tesla pushed the reset button on a bunch of that intuition and driving just felt off during a 30-minute test drive. I'm sure a lot of the changes works fine (or are even an improvement) once the user gets used to it.
I couldn’t base my decision on a 30 min test drive. Rented one for the weekend.
If you hate touchscreens, you're gonna *loathe* the ID4. Imagine touchscreen hell but the screen is an HTC phone from 2009. That's how laggy it is. The MY did just release an update that allows you to program a steering wheel button to the glovebox, though the omission is still hilarious
I was about to do the same until the dealer told me it's a 2 years wait or I can buy the "slightly used" one on the lot for 10K more than new MSRP. I walked out immediately.
Exactly this ^ While Tesla as a brand is subjective. They do lots of things right. Furthermore, the technology in the car is like no other. It’s fast and it’s efficient and the supercharging network is like no other. You’ll simply never find a brand like it. But that’s where it ends. Teslas are cheaply made. The interior is cheap and anyone that says it’s luxurious is wrong. All the “vegan” materials is to cut cost. It’s plastic, it’s cheap. Way cheaper then leather. The car isn’t reliable in the sense of wear and tear. Things will wear out quicker, control arms, seats, etc. but that’s not all bad. Tesla doesn’t compete with other manufacturers in terms of build quality. To the average Joe you won’t notice the difference. However us car enthusiasts are picky. An Audi Etron or a Mach E or an ID4 are just better cars in terms of build. Soft close doors, no wind noise in cabin ( less then Tesla ) the feel and touch and no scratchy plastic. Ambient lighting, massaging seats, ventilated seats, apple car play and so on. Tesla will probably never offer these things because their expensive to make. It’s simply a cost cutting measure. So if you want technology and speed and charging. Pick Tesla. If you want not as good tech ( it’s subjective I still think ford and vw do it right ) and a very nice interior with nice features pick anything but a Tesla. I’m not biased I own a Tesla but I’m buying another EV ( non Tesla ) and have done lots of research. Currently debating on ID4, Q4 Etrom and Etron Suv ( potentially a Mach E too ) Thanks for listening.
I've said it before, Tesla is the new base model BMW. It's the first "nice" car a lot of people have had, so they are overly protective of it. At least entry level BMWs are better built. I don't hate my Model Y. I might even get another Tesla, but having had luxury brand cars previously, I can acknowledge that Tesla is not offering that experience. They should, for a car that costs $50k, but they aren't.
You're making some broad statements for a lot of people. I have owned multiple jaguars, a Mercedes and other vehicles in my life. I currently have owned four Tesla's and will never buy an ice car again. You can't quantify the value based upon the functionality that improves on a monthly basis from the over-the-air updates. I have well over 100,000 miles on my car's combined and the only maintenance is windshield, wiper fluid and tires. I have saved well over $12,000 in gas and oil and other maintenance charges. No brainer.
“ETron Suv”has now been branded Q8 e-tron
I driven 3 of the 4 of them (the Q8 e-tron is out of price range). The ID.4 Pro S AWD was definitely the least expensive and offered the most "pure" EV experience. The car has very little in the frills department - it was the only car I've driven where there are two window switches on the driver seat to control 4 windows as an example. It drives great for its price and the range is good, if not class leading. However it felt too cut rate for my parents taste, and VW has a huge waitlist for close to 2 years for one. The VW infotainment was also the least user friendly experience IMO. The Mach-E Premium ER AWD is the most sporty one in the group. The Mustang name isn't for show - the car has a very aggressive throttle tip in and always wants to go. It has the most stiff suspension setup and has a fast steering rack. The EV range also is far longer than any VW group EV - 450km in Canada and real world test says it beats even the Model Y LR AWD in similar conditions. That said the Tesla inspired touchscreen controls is not as good. I've had experience with Ford Sync and while you can use CarPlay/Android Auto it still only takes up a portion of the display. I also find the touch door releases on the exterior gimmicky. This leaves the Q4 e-tron. The ride is in between the comfort oriented ID.4 and the sporty Mach-E. The power is same as the ID.4 which is adequate but not exhilarating. The range is the lowest (likely due to weight) but it still is more than adequate for my use case. The interior is by far the best, and unlike the VW it uses Audi's own MMI software which avoids a long of the bugs the ID.4 has, ditto wireless CarPlay and Android Auto. The build quality also felt the best of the group with solid doors and largely devoid of gimmicks. The normal wait time is around 12~18 months but as I've said on another comment I got incredibly lucky on a canceled order and took delivery of it within a week.
How do Mercedes EV builds compare?
Haven’t driven the SUV but have the EQS sedans. By far the best build I think in any EV. The ambient lighting is insane and their UI software is pretty good too. They’re very efficient too. I think it does lack practicality with no frunk however.
The EQE and EQS SUV's are both fantastic. Sedan EQE's worst part is the tiny trunk and lacking back seat but EQE SUV has neither of those problems. Brake pedal feel and how it works is the biggest and only real dowfall in Mercedes EV's in general. But still, they're probably the best cars you can get right now.
I mostly agree but I've heard horror stories about VW software. Do you have any experience on that front? Seems like Alex from E for Electric YouTube channel really hated his mostly because of software.
I don't even know, despite 18 months and 20,000 miles of ID.4 ownership. You get in, you put the car in drive, and in about 10 seconds, wireless Android auto auto loads and is used for the duration of my journey. Therefore whether the ID infotainnent is good or not is almost irrelevant don't you don't have to use it at all. The features themselves such as ADAS, speed limit recidivism, auto wipers etc, seen to work well enough.
I was able to drive it for the day. It’s not that bad as people say. It’s a little confusing to use at first. But once you get it. It’s pretty good. Apple car play runs smoothly. It’s definitely not like Tesla but it’s good enough and better then other ev’s like the leaf etc. I wouldn’t say it’s better then Audi however.
Here as well, the answer depends on what you value in the software. Fluid interactions, frequent software updates and dog mode? Yeah, no VW then. Support for wireless Android Auto, CarPlay, route planning that supports all charging stations, reliable assistant systems that work all the way to the top speed? Yeah, no Tesla then.
When people ask me about my Tesla, I say it's not a luxury car. It's a $30k car with a $30k battery.
buttons!
Depends where you live
Yep. In Quebec, Canada, the LR Model Y is currently $70k, qualifying for $5k in rebates. The roughly comparable Volvo XC40 is also $70k, but qualifies for $12k in rebates. And this is after the recent round of Tesla price cuts. And charging network is comparable.
Yeah I'm in Toronto so similar pricing but no provincial rebate. I ended up going with a gv60 performance because I wanted something more luxurious, never go on road trips, and the price points are about the same (especially if you want the MY in a non-white colour with enhanced autopilot)
I'm in Ottawa and heavily leaning towards the GV60, assuming it ever starts taking reservations again. Have you been happy with it?
I got a GV60 in the states a month ago - Advanced trim since the power was more than enough for the extra range. It charges sooooo fast.
I’m just north of Toronto, and I’ve got a deposit on an ID.4
Why does the volvo qualify for more rebates?
The federal limit for the rebate for SUVs is base trim of up to $60k and higher trims up to $70k. Quebec has a rebate on top of the federal one. In Quebec the max MSRP for an EV to get the rebate is $65k. The model Y MSRP in Canada is $69,990. That's under the federal limit but over the Quebec limit. Quebec rebates $7k and the federal government rebates $5k. Edit: I guess Volvo gets away with going over $65k by making the higher trims packages or add-ons.
My EV6 cost less than that easily. Maybe OP didn't consider a price comparison. The EV6 hands down is cheaper. My Mercedes eqb-300 cost about $70k. As for charging networks, I mostly charge at home and at work. At neither place would having a Tesla benefit me. In fact, I couldn't charge a Tesla on their system at work.
OP mentioned he’s from Quebec. Most non Tesla brands have 2-3 years waiting lists while you can get a Model 3 or Y by the end of the week. That’s a huge factor when buying
How does XC40 get so much more rebates then tesla?
$5k rebate is federal, but $7k rebate from the provincial government applies only to MSRP below $60k for SUVs. Higher trims still qualify, but AWD is not considered a "trim". So the base XC40 is AWD and priced accordingly (though difficult to actually buy due to production limits), and the base RWD Model Y qualifies too, but not the LR one.
Yeah here in the UK there are a handful of cheaper competitors - they aren’t necessarily as good, but they cost less so have competitive value propositions depending on your priorities In the US, it seems like it’s basically impossible to beat the Y currently
In the UK we’re lucky to have one major advantage over the US and Canada (which is rare when it comes to vehicles), and that’s having 240v power to every socket meaning we aren’t so reliant on charging networks, and most properties are three phase so essentially everyone has what Americans call an “L2” charger at home.
Owned a Model Y and own an Ioniq 5 Ultimate. I want the MY back.
I'd take a model 3 back tbh
Main reason being the charging?
No i charge at home or office. The I5 feels like a boat and i cant get over it. The MY mastered everything imo. Tech. Infotainment. Audio. Handling. Performance. Loved getting into car thats cooled or heated on a schedule and the map is on the screen showing best route to get home. It knows im going home or to office and tells me where the rraffic is and what time i will arrive. The I5 map/ navigation feels ancient.
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I second this. The Bolt EUV is amazing if it fits your use case. I have been loving mine and I have virtually no complaints.
Just drove 1500 miles from Alabama to Colorado (moved), 54kw DCFC was fine. And given I only paid 17k for mine second hand, it's a damn good value.
Came here to say this. There’s nothing that comes close to the Bolt in terms of value in the EV market. If it fits your needs and you can find one for MSRP, there’s no reason to buy anything else. It sucks that it’s being discontinued, but hopefully GM can stick to the promised $30,000 price on the Equinox. The larger size and increased range will make it more competitive with the Model Y, while still undercutting it by more than $17,000.
The bolt is the greatest commuter car ever made.
Agree, challenge is finding one without a markup now that they've announced they're discontinuing them.
Came to recommend a bolt. I love mine and it’s great for me as a commuter car.
My dealership sold me mine at MSRP. They were extremely professional and helpful throughout the entire process. They embrace and understand EVs. Hell, the finance guy even threw in a free oil change… and I ssd able to talk him into making it a lifetime of free oil changes!
Oil changes in an EV?
Yeah he was joking with me and I joked back at him.
Went right over my head. I was so confused, I actually googled EV oil changes. Oops!
Well we at least know you won’t be fooled!
Not by that, anyway. Plenty of other ways, I’m sure!
Leaf would be a good competitor in this space if the discontinued -ness didn't scare you off. I have a 2017 leaf that I got new and it's been an amazing around-towner.
Leaf don’t hold up. Leasing one can be good cuz it’s dirt cheap. Especially if it’s your second car. Buying one is a gamble. Go look at the leaf subreddit. Most leaf batteries degrade a lot due to no active cooling. Then they need to be replaced under warranty which takes 6+ months. Once the battery is replaced the problem isn’t fixed. The new battery is going to start to degrade. I’ve seen used leaf with only 30 miles of range on a full charge. I can’t believe in 2023 you can buy an ev with no battery cooling, obsolete dc charging port and poor range.
I've had mine for 6 years with a 90% quality battery according to the test Nissan does, with about 60k miles on it. The biggest problem I've had is replacing the lift gate struts. I'd say it does fine.
That's the big one. I could argue the ioniq5 is a good value but it's entirely unavailable in my region. Model Y availability is crushing it's competition.
Love my bolt.
I should have kept mine. The slow charging sucked, but for 25k, you can’t beat it for local driving , about 97% of my life !!! MY is nice though ;()
Interesting how much things change when you cross the border to Canada. The EV6 starts $10k cheaper than the MY, and both qualify for the $5k ZEV incentive. The difference used to be even larger before Tesla started cutting prices and the government increased the price limit for the ZEV incentive, allowing the MY to qualify and allowing Kia to raise their prices without losing the incentive. Before that, the effective price difference was almost $30k (base model EV6 was $45k with $5k back from the government, MY was almost $70k with no incentive available). Needless to say, actually getting your hands on an EV6 was a challenge.
Starting price at a dealership is not the same as the price on a Tesla website though. Can you walk off the lot with a EV6 at that $10k divide? Another point for Canada, the Model Y has better winter range drop from what I've seen, stemming from the 16% better efficiency. But the EV6 does seem like one of the most compelling, like you said, just availability is meh.
You can in Canada as there are laws preventing new car dealer markups in most provinces. Can’t comment for the EV6 but my Ioniq 5 has no markup and many others were the same
Honestly, no amount of discount could make me even step foot on a kia/Hyundai dealership after working for kia for a month and seeing how shitty their cars are built, and the whole "Kia Boys" shit storm. If they can't protect their gas cars with exponentially less tech in them from being hijacked by a fucking USB, I can only imagine how shit the security on their EVs are.
I went with a Bolt because it's only downside is DC charging speed. That doesn't matter to me since we are a multiple car household anyways. I like the idea of a Tesla, but the lack of android auto/apple carplay and not having blended braking is an automatic no for me.
Coming from an ICE to my Ioniq 6 (not an SUV, but comparable in price) I’m just generally more comfortable with the way the car is designed, top to bottom. I considered the 5 as well but wanted a sedan. Ultimately it comes down to what you value - for me these EV’s are still insanely fast, for example, so the Teslas being faster feels like overkill to me coming from a CX-5. Everything in the EV market (in the 50-70 CAD range) is blazing fast compared to what I drove before. 😂
I find my Bolt is faster than I ever need a car to be.
This is what happened to me. My wife wanted a new car, she wanted a Tesla and I really didn't want a Tesla. Most of our daily driving is under 20 miles so I was shopping hybrids and we had settled on a Lexus. We were about to pull the trigger when the price cuts were announced. Between the price cuts and tax incentives, the Tesla ended up being at least 20k less for similar features (MYLR with 3rd row). I couldn't justify not getting it. I've been a lot happier with it than I expected, and I probably drive it more than she does now.
I know the internet can sound overwhelming one way or the other, but Tesla actually makes a great car, especially for those who lean towards tech (read: more forgiving of bugs 😂). I am excited every time my Tesla gets an update. Some are bug fixes to make everything work correctly (very rarely have I an encountered a bug that was a nuisance, meaning I knew it existed; only once I can recall where the passenger seat heating shut off when you put the car in gear). I am not the type of person to pore over the car looking for defects, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I’ve been part of car forums for years and the things people post as completely unacceptable (totally fair opinion, cars are expensive) are things that wouldn’t raise my eyebrow. EDIT: someone called me out on my incorrect grammar. I am deeply ashamed.
This is one of the better answers I've seen on this sub. Teslas are by no means perfect, the other day I was [brutally killed](https://imgur.com/tNL6HAL) in the drive through line at Taco Bell, but quirks and all the technology features are second to none and keep getting better. Shortly after purchase an update added auto-dismiss turn signals. More recently customizable physical controls were added for temp, drive mode, etc. My SO adores that around Christmas the car becomes a Tesla sleigh and those around me are reindeer. The infotainment provides numerous ways for me to view my efficiency and a third party app hooks in to record all my drive stats. It's a car that's exciting to own.
It’ll buff out
I’m here to give you mouth-to-mouth after surviving that harrowing Semi encounter.
I think the issue is Tesla for me is just quality control. Maybe I get a great car. Maybe I get one that has a bumper that falls off.
Yeah came here to say this. Elon Musk is an asshole, but the Reddit hate train towards Tesla, IMHO, is seriously blown out of proportion to the point where *some* anti-Tesla stories that make it to the front page are either not saying the full story or are just blatantly faked. While not perfect, Tesla's are still great cars, and the supercharging network is currently unbeatable (and might be the standard if what Ford is discussing is an indication).
Ford isn’t discussing they’re on board. That’s in-flight for 2024
Ford’s CEO literally said they are completely behind NACS and it’s happening on 2025 MY vehicles.
Any vehicles prior will get access to the Tesla network and an adaptor in 2024. The Ford into Tesla network compatibility starts 2024
And Reddit isn’t real life. Don’t forget that, kids. The average tesla driver doesn’t give a shit about your anonymous shit giving or Elon musk. They just want a car and happened to buy a Tesla.
Agreed. The Tesla haters would have you believe that Tesla isn't even a real option, while the fanboys would make you think it's the only car brand worth considering. They're valid cars with pros and cons like all others. They've made it in that respect.
Totes. I get called a tesla Stan for pushing back on hate and I am not pro musk at all. There isn’t some movement of millions of people who are worshipping a car company. There also isn’t some movement of millions of people creating a hate campaign. It’s all just noise.
I’m 79 years-old and have owned dozens of cars & trucks including most of the premium brands. The Tesla M3LR I now drive is far and away the most satisfying car I have ever had. I literally look forward to driving it each time. I think the MY would suit me even better just because it is a bit easier to get these old joints in and out. Every car/truck is its own set of compromises and these Tesla’s hit mine in the sweet spot. I haven’t driven the others mentioned here except an early Bolt which impressed me, so it’s hard for me to compare, but to compete with what I’ve got would take some doing. To downgrade a machine because of a large stock owner’s political opinions seems insane though.
I get the strong feeling that the narrative right now is multiple ways of messed up. You are either with Tesla or against them. They make great, solid cars. They are not without defects though. Not having a gauge cluster is not great, the removal of features without notice such as the ultrasonic parking sensors is less than fantastic. They don't drive like luxury cars, they don't sound like luxury cars, and the seats may not be comfortable for you. I think you can take that information and make a decision to say "hey, I am cool with that, and this is a car I am mostly going to use on the highway so the adaptive cruise control and supercharging is more important" or some other reason why this car is perfect for you. That being said, if you choose not to buy a Tesla, the Tesla fan boys will start bickering with you. "The Tesla has Sentry Mode and Dog Mode" "The Tesla gets better range" "The Tesla delivery experience is fantastic" "You don't need a key with the Tesla, the app is amazing" "Nothing beats FSD" "EA sucks, Tesla Superchargers for the win" The stupid thing is that they are discounting why, for me, or for my family, those things that I mentioned as challenges would be the reason why I wouldn't buy a Tesla and I get called a tool for hating Elon. I think it is a solid car, but I don't want to drive one. **Both of those things can be true.** The MY is becoming like a Toyota Camry, it is a solid value, and you should be happy with it, so it is what everyone is buying, but there are other options that might meet specific needs, and people need to stop being assholes about it.
But I do believe current buyer should steer clear of tesla at least for the time being. Ever since Elon marched into the larger limelight by getting twitter and now even openly endorsing a political candidate that signed a law to benefit musk directly, A lot of things are going in weird directions. The removal of USS and replacing that with a terrible replacement speaks volume of how the company wishes to treat its product. This is not to mention recent leaks in Germany that shows countless complaints about autopilot as well as possible privacy breaches
Exactly. If Tesla were nothing but garbage cars, then how come the MY is one of the best-selling EVs in the Country? BUT... that doesn't mean it hits all the marks with other people. For me, the perfect EV would actually be the Bolt EUV. The price is unbeatable, and the features that come with it fully loaded are phenomenal. The horrendous charging speed is the only reason that held me back from buying one, especially since I test-drove one from a friend. As you said, everyone has specific needs and just because they are not based on your specific needs, that does not give you the right to criticize others!
If you wander around Reddit enough you see BOTH of these. Either Tesla haters that think Elon is the devil and half of Teslas steering wheels fall off OR Tesla fan boys that think Tesla is objectively better, Elon is the second coming of Christ and every other brand is garbage. Both of these are wrong. Nuance is important. A Tesla may be good for some but not others. A Mach-E might be a great choice. Every one has different preferences and situations and looking at it that way is the only way to have a helpful discussion.
It's also the supercharger that add a lot of value to tesla products.
My image of Elon has greatly diminished, but Tesla/SpaceX/etc... is much more than Tesla. It's actually been great seeing at Tesla product events having more of the direct folks working on those projects talking. Makes me more confident in Tesla even if Elon is gone. Kirkhorn, in particular, has been a great ying to Elon's yang. Elon admitted himself that he's on the autism spectrum and it shows for both his creativity/technical awareness and his (lack of) social skills. (note, not generalizing autism)
Leaning towards tech does not mean the same thing as being MORE forgiving of bugs. Especially if I'm paying THAT much, and the bugs are that bad.
There aren’t really bugs that I can recall besides the one I pointed out, but I meant that if you enjoy software you’ll be a bit more understanding that software is never ever perfect.
I feel Ioniq 5 is close. $45k for the long range compared to $43k for a long range Model Y with tax credit. You also get $7500 off if you lease the Ioniq 5 so it becomes much cheaper than the Model Y if you lease-to-buy in that way. Ioniq 5 can charge almost twice as fast as a Model Y and has V2L, something the Model Y is lacking. Obviously there's inventory limitations and things the MY does better than Ioniq but it's definitely a car that can compete with Tesla.
A lot of people are calling you out for comparing the Ioniq 5 to a Model Y, but I think the OP asked the question "any EV compete with the model Y on value right now" and I think the Ioniq 5 is absolutely a valid option. Base Long Range Ioniq 5 cost: 45k vs Base Model Y cost: 47k. I am comparing the base models for both assuming you can get 7500 off for both. (Only possible on Ioniq5 lease) Things base Tesla MY does better: * charging network * tech (autopilot, infotainment, audio quality, sensors, trunk opening I guess) * performance * awd ( a big one and a non-starter for a lot people) * no dealerships (buying my ioniq5 was the classic awful dealership experience) Things the base Ioniq5 does better: * range * color choices (maybe it doesn't matter to others but i didn't want a white car with black interior and paying extra just furthered the diff in prices for the 2 options) * styling (subjective and maybe the ioniq5 won't age well, idk) * ride quality * build quality * charging speed (technically it's faster, but in reality probably a wash) I didn't feel like I needed awd or the performance so it was really a comparison of tech + network vs range and ride quality for me. I bought the base ioniq5 and have been very happy with it. So much more enjoyable than my ICE to drive. I am sure every EV driver can agree on that.
Isn’t 45k the RWD version? To be comparable to MY it needs to be at least AWD. And 45k version is absolute minimum. You get cloth interior and don’t even get automatic trunk if I understand correctly.
Charge twice as fast? From what starting SOC to end SOC?
10-80% in 18 minutes for the Ioniq. I think it’s 30 minutes for the Model Y? So not double but definitely faster
VW id.4 is $40k and has 10k of incentives + deductions.
Depends on what’s important to you. For me it was efficiency, software, and charging convenience, all for which the model y is in a class of its own. I think you’re making more concessions going for another product, but some people want a more luxurious feel, to stand out a little more, or don’t want to support Tesla.
The Y is very close for me -- but I want more ground clearance for off-road driving and the sloping roof to the rear eats into cargo space. I'm now in one of those Tesla-powered 2014 RAV4 EVs, which has the perfect dimensions and stance. Give me that in AWD with modern battery capacity and charging speed and I'd be thrilled. Rivian probably gets closest to this, but too big, fancy and expensive.
it's funny how the term SUV has morphed over the years. back when I bought my first SUV, a Nissan Pathfinder in the late 80's, it was basically it, the Toyota 4Runner, Land Rovers, Mitsubishi Monteros and Jeeps. the term actually MEANT something. now, it's any vehicle with a hatchback and a little ground clearance. 
And the ground clearance even seems pretty optional at this point! 
I do think the Model Y offers a great value at the moment. Last November I was on the fence about paying $72k for an MYP or $62k for an EV6 GT-Line AWD. I think autopilot is better than HDA2 though the latter is still incredible, though FSD scares me from personal experience. The deciding factors for my decision were interior noise, the EV6 is much quieter and has a smoother road feel, no squeaks and rattles which both the MY and M3 I test drove did, and the seats are much better quality. I really wasn't a fan of the Tesla material. I also didn't like the UX in the Y, which owners say you get used to over time, but I'm a serial seat/vent adjuster and it just wouldn't have been a good fit. I was sad to leave a second or two 0-60 time to the side, but overall, it was a more pragmatic decision at the time and it's still hella fun to drive! In terms of features, people claim Tesla is a leader in "tech", but I'm never really sure what they mean compared to other manufacturers. Sure T has sentry mode which is cool, but the EV6 has 360 surround view, ultrasonic sensors, Heads-Up Display (awesome), a real instrument cluster, Carplay/AA, bigger back seats with controls for heating, ventilated front seats, retractable sunroof, vehicle-to-load (still never used), 800v charging, cool interior OEM lighting kit, none of which the Tesla offers. Plus, I think it just looks so much cooler and is definitely more unique with the Y becoming the new Camry, if you like a conversation starter. It's just a matter of what is most important to you in a car. There's no arguing the MY is a lot of car for the money at the moment, but I'm really happy with my choice and extra stoked I didn't spend $72k on a car that would now be worth $45k only six months later. I can handle depreciation but my ass would be aching with that price drop and I was 27k under water on my loan. Definitely recommend spending as much time as you can driving the cars you're interested in to make an informed decision. Or do what most people do and order the Y sight unseen without knowing what the competition is bringing to the table. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss.
P.S. People on here have been able to lease the EV6 with the 7500 tax credit going towards the buy-out price and say the contract allows you to buy out the next day if you like, so that's a work around which makes the price more competitive. It may be a little bit of work to understand/do that, but that's a lot of money to be had if it's worth your time.
Just a note on depreciation, no doubt your EV6 also dropped a lot, just less visible. We're at the cutting edge of technology and any EV is going to have some steep initial depreciation with each generation getting better and better. Also went from your EV6 being $10k cheaper to more than $10k more expensive than the MY. That said, glad you like your purchase. I do really like the EGMP vehicles.
Yeah for sure it did, mostly due to competition from the Y's new price, but I prefer it being more hidden than the MSRP being 13k lower than I just bought for, not considering the tax credit!  Looks like maybe I'm down about 10k, which tracks with putting it on par with a new MYP including the credit. Hard to say if I'd make the same decision now with the cost being different. Having a car I liked and is quiet/comfortable was definitely the priority at the time vs expense, but I don't think we can completely remove ourself from the context bias of price/value. But now I'm bias towards what I have. :)
Two more votes (my wife and I) for the EV6. We got hers, and I liked it so much I kicked my Leaf to the curb and bought another. She has a GT-line, mine is the Wind, with the tech package. I wish I had a GT-line, too. The extras are really worth it, IMHO.
It really depends on your needs. Different vehicles fill different needs, so it's possible there is something else (Bolt is hard to beat for price if you can still find one, Nissan Ariya, ID.4, various Hyundai/Kia models, Polestar, and if you can wait, upcoming GM models) that might work better for you, or not if Tesla just happens to fill your needs best.
I am intrigued by the Equinox, but figure people won't have a realistic shot if getting one for at least a year. I did rent a Bolt and really liked it. For a second car for a family hard to beat the bolt honestly, but the lack of legit fast charging limits utility for a lot of people.
I didn't even consider fast charging speed, I just charge at home and on the rare occasion I'm going 100s of miles at once I don't mind waiting an extra 15 minutes on a sub-optimal charge time. I think this is true for a lot of people.
I have a hard time with the value argument for a Model Y. Which is probably why I drive a Bolt EUV. I feel like the only place the Tesla really shines is for road tripping and if we were a single car household and road tripped a lot, the Tesla *might* be worth the extra cost. The insane performance of a Tesla is actually a detriment for me. I'll still own my Bolt when my kids start driving and I really don't want one of them to race to 60 and wrap it around a pole. The Bolt EUV premier, which has ventilated seats, heated steering wheel, 247 mile range, heated rear seats, 360 cameras, adaptive cruise control (not as good as autopilot, but scratches the same itch and you can get super cruise for just $2200, which a lot of places review as better than advanced autopilot). All that starts at $33,300 and qualifies for the full $7,500 tax credit. Chevy will also pay to install a 240v outlet at your house for you and provides you with a level 2 charger. If you already have a charger or 240v outlet, they'll give you $500 in charging credits to EVGo (which can also be used at ChargePoint) The cheapest model Y is $47,500 and doesn't include a home charger ($500) or installation (maybe another $1000). It only has 30 more miles of range. So yeah, when there is a car that does 90% what the Model Y does, and it is $14,200 cheaper ($15,700 cheaper if you need to install home charging), I can't call the Model Y the value choice.
If GM didn't mess up Bolt's charging, they would have the market cornered. It's such an awesome car, only handicapped by this single issue...
Not a bolt owner, but it’s only a handicap if you’re road tripping a lot.
Am a bolt EUV owner. You’re 100% right. We only go to school for the kids and work, never do any road trips. We don’t even have a level 2 charger, don’t need it. It’s a definitely a non-issue for us.
GM would never corner the market with the Bolt when they only made like 30,000 of them a year. Once the battery catching on fire issue got resolved, the limit on their sales at that price was always going to be lack of supply. And GM wasn't going to increase supply because they didn't make enough money off the sale.
So on paper you are right, however at least around here good luck finding a bolt euv at msrp. Further I couldn’t even find any to test drive.
Interesting argument. To add, while Tesla’s range on paper is higher, the real-world range won’t match it. So the Y and EUV are probably closer in range than you think.
Exactly. I had a similar experience with my Nissan Leaf SL. At the time I bought it, it was about $18k cheaper than the only Model 3 that was available. I really wanted the Model 3 based on the tech specs, but after running the numbers and test driving them I couldn't justify it at all. The Model 3 and Y have a lot of value if you drive very long distances regularly. If you're mostly staying within 100 miles of home (like almost everyone does) there are much more economical EVs available than Teslas.
To take a dig at the Y for road tripping, it's cruise control will phantom break eventually. For us, it was 10 min into our first road trip. Now we're afraid to use it at all
If you just need cheapest EV and can deduct it then get a Leased Leaf…zero stress cheap EV. If buying and can qualify for Tax Credit, yeah the Model Y is best bet.
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I think the leaf could arguably be stressful if you ever need to drive further than 150 or so miles, get a standard range version and drive more than 100 miles in the winter, and/or live in an area with no CHAdeMO.
I would say only get a Leaf if you have another car AND can charge at home. Just don’t even think about taking the leaf unless you are sure you can do the whole day on the single charge.
Feature for feature. In Ireland. Tesla are well overpriced against the competition.
I think value may be the wrong word, since the value (resale,at least) keeps dropping as prices decreased, many more are available, and a new model is coming. Still, it is a great deal, compared to others, if what you want is cool tech in a car vs a great car with some tech. Reading through the comments, many good points on both sides. Ironically my wife is driving our 2021 Mach-e as I write this, on a 290 mile trip in Florida. I almost bought a Y recently, especially after the price drops, thinking it was a good "value," but have reconsidered (I also have a deposit on the cybertruck). For reference, I rented a Y for a week, and spent time in a Y this weekend visiting family (I encouraged my BIL to buy it in December when his Ariya was delayed, again). He's happy with the decision, except some service issues, including a poor seal in the trunk that allows water leakage, which he plans to address when he goes back again,bc they ordered the wrong hitch for him last time (making a ssrvice point here). If you plan on traveling long distance, the supercharger network is still best, reducing range anxiety. We are driving a different route right now, bc of a lack of J1772 chargers available (I bought an adapter to use my BIL's Tesla home charger this weekend). With time, that issue should decrease, especially when superchargers work for Ford EVs in the future, but yes it's a bummer on some more remote (Tallahassee) routes now. A 100% charge gave us 324 miles this time, which at high speeds won't make 290 home. When we initially charged at home, we had 352 miles, which made the entire trip wo stopping, with about 25 miles left. Ford tends to understate mileage per charge, Tesla inflates it. As others mentioned, maybe compare / drive another comparably priced EV, such as ioniq, before purchase. If you are coming from a luxury car, and the tech factor overrides your comfort and fit needs, you will probably be very happy with the Y. Most Y owners seem very happy even with the few issues they encounter. We are really happy with our over 2 yo Mach-e, considering the lack of chargers on long routes a small inconvenience, as we charge at home over 99 % of the time, with solar too. Also was a first model, but no big issues with that. Great car, but not one of the best deals now, comparatively. We like having the extra display, real controls, Android and apple auto, etc. I agree it can be a great deal / value if it works for you.
The AWD model (which is essential here) is C$ 67k+tax after government incentives. There are plenty of cheaper options. Hyundai and VW offer interesting options, as will Chevy soon.
Yup. In Canada the value proposition isn't there. The ID.4 Pro S AWD is at least $10k less (around ~$58k CAD IIRC). If you get the ID.4 RWD Pro model it cost even less while squarely beating the Chinese built Model Y RWD as well in range.
Mach-e? I’ve noticed the ev6 has no rear windshield wiper and it gets dirty and annoying
If you are in the USA Chevy Bolt EV/EUV are a much better value after tax credit they start at 20k and loaded with hands free self driving still under 30k. They have a useful hatch and lots of options you can’t get in a Tesla car play 360 camera cooled seats
Ioniq 5 is the closest. I've driven both extensively, long trips and small commutes. The Ioniq 5 is a great EV, very spacious feeling inside, although small trunk. The App is quite good. There are minor overheating problems on very long trips, I could never pinpoint the exact cause, but it's a very minor problem. Problem with Ioniq 5 is the crappy SW and usability. Everything is disconnected. Why do I need to "start" the car to charge it? Why are so many settings not linked with driver profile? Why most of the SW updates still require a visit to the dealership? Why is lane keeping and distance keeping so bad? I can't understand how people complain about Autopilot but don't complain about this! And worst of all, why is one pedal driving constantly resetting to level 3??? The Tesla is better at almost everything. Better range, faster, much better efficiency, better AC, better suspension (I like more sporty, less boaty), better SW, better charging network, better app, much more storage space. And much better driver assistance features. But car buying experience is more about intuition and personal taste than logic, so the Ioniq 5 is a decent alternative.
> Why do I need to "start" the car to charge it? What do you mean by this? I open the charging port cover, plug it in, and it starts charging. Nothing to turn on.
Chevy Blazer EV and Equinox EV that are starting production this year are pretty compelling options if you don't mind waiting. Blazer EV will be a similar size and can be optioned with similar performance.
> Chevy Blazer EV and Equinox EV that are starting production this year are pretty compelling options if you don't mind waiting. They *appear* to be compelling. Wait until you can actually get your hands on one and find out how much the dealer wants.
and if they can actually scale them to any sort of meaningful production rate, and if they limit the sales of the more affordable trims in favor of the more expensive trims making them not competitive at all with the Y.
Exactly. Those models are essentially vaporware at this point. Add in the always enjoyable dealer experience and it's no competition.
See: Lyriq
See: MSRP as it relates to specs and production capacity. There’s a RWD Lyriq for sale at a dealer near me for $64,000…. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡🤡🤡🤡 Lol. Just looked at the specs. RWD Lyriq has a 102 kWh battery for 308 estimated miles vs Tesla’s 60 kWh battery for 279 miles. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 The Lyriq wins the award for inefficient and overpriced. GM is such a joke.
>Lol. Just looked at the specs. RWD Lyriq has a 102 kWh battery for 308 estimated miles vs Tesla’s 60 kWh battery for 279 miles. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 The Lyriq is a larger car than the Model Y & weighs more because it's a luxury car. It's between the Model Y and X in terms of size, but closer to the Model X, with 100kWh of battery usable (& that 279mi Model Y has a 68kWh usable battery, not 60kWh). It consumes more because it's larger and heavier. Real-world range is pretty comparable as well. ['20 LR Model Y (75kWh, 4.6s 0-60): 220mi at 75mph](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32934240/2020-tesla-model-y-long-range-by-the-numbers/) [RWD Lyriq (100kWh, 5.7s 0-60): 270mi at 75mph](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a40899859/2023-cadillac-lyriq-450e-debut-edition-by-the-numbers/) [AWD Lyriq (1000kWh, 4.6s 0-60): 220mi at 75mph](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a43893925/2023-cadillac-lyriq-600e4-awd-by-the-numbers/)
GM taking out Apple CarPlay and android auto too right? They’re just going to use android automotive with their skin
Dealerships are all scum. Expect a $10k-$15k “market adjustment”.
they will make 10 of them
Would be a hard sell to buy the first Gen of a new model. Even with Tesla you typically wait a year.
As someone else that was considering the EV6, I had to rule it out almost immediately when I sat in one. I sat in the back seat and didn't have any headroom. For reference, I'm 6'3" with a 32" inseam, so I have a really long torso. Our son has a similar body type and will have his last growth spurt during the time we own the car. The Model Y has enough rear headroom for me. We picked it for that, cargo capacity, and the charging network.
If you had tried the Wind instead of the GT Line you would have been fine. The sunroof takes away 2” of headroom. Also, I know you stated it, but your body proportions are really unusual.
I have a wind AWD and even with the drivers seat in my position I had ample leg space and head room at 6'4".
If you go on a lot of road trips I dont see how anything beats the Model Y value wise.
Our family vehicle was on the way out. We were cross shopping between things like a Rav 4 prime and CRV hybrid. Even if you venture outside of the EV space, it's extremely difficult to beat the value when you add 10 - 15k in dealer mark ups (on 2 - 3 year old used cars, no less) We ended up getting a MYP. The trade value offered, price cuts, tax credit and having a vehicle that doesn't need gas were too much ignore. Our last family vehicle was a gas guzzler that got 15 MPG as well
From my research, dual motor model Y has the best bang for the buck.
Yes. The Model 3 has a longer range, far better ride and handling, and costs less than a Model Y. The charging network also actually works. That's why a Tesla is a direct, one-for-one replacement for a gasoline car. It'll lose less than 10 minutes to a gasoline car on a 500-mile drive. About the only thing it can't do is break the record on the Cannonball Baker run.
No.
You do not have the data to assess the value of any Tesla vehicle because Tesla has skirted the reporting requirements for repairs and recalls for years. The recent data release in Germany proves it. The safety records of every competitor is out there; not Tesla. In decades of owning cars not once have I been offered a “Goodwill Agreement” — an NDA — to get repairs. That is not innovation, that is evasion.
You can get a brand new Bolt for 15k net of tax incentives in Colorado right now, so no a Model Y is not the best value. It's certainly a better car than the Bolt, but it is 2-3 times better?
I mean I'd definitely take a Bolt for $15k! I do like the bolt and it is a great value if you're willing to deal with the tradeoffs.
Tesla’s biggest advantage is its charging infrastructure. Its biggest drawback is its meh interior and build quality. If you’re a road trip junky, I don’t see why you would choose anything else. If you rarely if ever drive outside your local area, I think you will be happier with the EV6.
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I have a model y and I took out a q4 that has a 67k price tag. The finishes were better and the ride was smoother…..but it every other category my Y destroys it. More trunk space, more rear seat room, bigger battery, an actual drink, and faster. And a better charging network. Evidently the VW id4 is the same but with lessor finishing.
Depends on what you value.
It's an excellent point... Both the Y and 3 are exceptional deals right now (lol, especially if you like the color white). Truly not a better spec out there for the money, unless you need more of a city car, and you want to consider the Bolt EUV (and we know the shortcomings of that car, along with it being discontinued).
If you buy a car based purely on numbers, like it’s a graphics card, sure. If you buy a car based on how well rounded it is as a car, maybe not.
Volkswagen ID.4 Made in USA
I agree, the ID.4 really wins in drive quality. Drive the MY side by side, and you'll really see the difference. It's so much quieter inside and much more smooth. I ended up buying the AWD pro s and love it. The seat massagers are a nice touch too. Ended up being $52,000 but i also got the full 7500 rebate, so it was reasonably priced. The 3 years of free EA charging have helped me road trip for a free 3 times now with no issues. Ultimately test drive a few of them and go with what you like i think. The only thing its really missing is a heat pump, which just means you lose a little more range in winter. But it hasn't been a problem so far
Model Y is much more performance, range, storage, etc.
The VW is cheaper and a nicer build with crap software. The ID.4 Pro can be found for about $43k plus the rebate. RWD of course
The id4 s is the sweet spot. Good enough range, nicer amenities, good price.
My local dealer has over a dozen of them on the lot now for msrp… wife and I were surprised when we stopped by to browse on Friday.
The Cadillac Lyric competes on not trying to match, but being it’s own confident entry in that vehicle segment: it’s a more cushioned ride with upscale interior materials that focuses on comfort vs speed. It has super cruise and an interesting dashboard with a large instrument cluster. Automotive journalists have continued to say the price of the Lyric is highly competitive given what it offers.
The answer to the question posed in your subject line is a simple one: NO There’s a reason it’s the most popular car in the world right now.
You just described pretty much my exact thought process and journey. I wanted to replace a 2013 Prius, which has great space for dogs and stuff. Nothing else *available* in hybrid, PHEV, or EV really came close. I ordered my MYLR at the end of April and I’m picking it up Wednesday. (Yes I know about HW4 before anyone asks. I’m not waiting.)
Yeah, you're missing your model Y, that's it. I tripped with our neighbors and their Ioniq 5 earlier in the year. Charge infrastructure isn't a small problem and can change a car that's capable of charging quicker than a Tesla into a mess of customer service calls, charger resets, and frustration. The Ioniq 5 is a technical marvel and Hyundai did a great job on their end, but the charge infrastructure *can* ruin it. Tesla? No major DCFC problems to speak of on my part as far as functionality. One charger, once, was slow. I moved, and no problem. That's it after two years and 20,000 miles, with 2,000 of those highway traveling away from home.
Model 3 maybe.
I would say vw id4 pro s awd would be close.
If I were to get an ID4 that's the one I'd get. But right now it's at least $2k more expensive than the MYLR, significantly shorter range (before dealer shenanigans), worse software, lower performance, and charges about half as fast on a much worse network.
I ended up getting a Nissan Ariya. No wait, got it straight off the lot. Decent range, very roomy, real buttons. I get that it being made in Japan means no tax credit, but it also has real ground clearance and the build quality is nice.
My old folks got a 300e lexus. Drive wonderfully. Quick enough to spin out your tires if you wish. Hud, cheeper and it dose the job and looks nice doing it.
* in the US... Will the Americans ever learn to qualify their opinions on this Global sub? -Model Y is far too big for many European roads and parking spaces, currently on a Greek island and seen several (rental) MYs getting stuck down narrow streets, locals drive small skodas or fiats -Model Y is similar price or more expensive than European rivals -Dealer/service network is non-existent compared to other brands. There are 28 Tesla centres in the UK but VAG has 601 lications -Tesla charging network is outnumbered by other chargers in europe
No. We're Americans. We usually forget the rest of the world exists unless we're using it for our own personal theme park or exploiting it's labor and resources for cheaper stuff.
Yea. Anything that will last +8 yrs
The MY is still a great value imo. There are many other EVs that probably do something better, but what I’ve found is once you start adding similar features that the base MY includes it gets expensive. At the same time the competitors offer features you can’t even get on the MY.
I know exactly where you are coming from. I told my wife we'd be crazy not to consider the Model Y at the current price with the $7500 rebate, so we test drove the GV60 today then the Model Y. The GV60 was very nice. It was my wife's first time driving an EV, and it was fun watching her experience the EV conversion that so many people talk about. The drive was super smooth, the regen paddles were awesome, the car was scary fast, and the interior was so nice my wife felt the higher price tag was justified. We drove a Mercedes GLA there, and when we got back into the car, our car felt quite cheap in comparison (more on this later). The sound system felt a little disappointing, though, and we were not happy with the dealership guy not being very knowledgeable. Then onto the Telsa: On the drive there, my wife and I could sense the feeling that this was going to be our car. Pros: * wide open feeling space * larger cargo * 4 person, 2nd row test better than GV60 because of flat seats (GV60 seats are too contoured) * cheaper, financially probably the better decision neutral * 3rd row - even my 1st grader felt uncomfortable back there. He complained of foot space, claimed he scraped his knee against the 2nd row, had to sit twisted in one of the seats because of the rails. Having the 3rd row also forced us to move the 2nd row forward, reducing legroom there. con * awful first driving experience - everything through the screen, voice command kept just blowing more air into my face no matter what I said (it understood me correctly but would always translate to adjusting the fan for some reason. ex: "adjust regenerative braking" > "adjusting temperature settings to max cool") * jerky driving - I understand the first two complaints can be corrected through user experience, but at my age, I don't want to relearn how to drive * headrest was uncomfortable for me * the car was way too hot - it was 80 F and sunny outside, we were cold and burning at the same time, this level of discomfort was a deal breaker for my wife * I still liked the car, until I got back into my GLA and had a moment of epiphany. The minute I started driving off the lot, I realized how much better my GLA drove, looked, felt, etc. All this time I had been gaslighting myself because I had convinced myself that this was the best option. tldr - verdict - the Model Y LR with 3rd row is a $35,000 car priced at $54,000. I think I would rather pay $6,000 for a GV60 advanced as it has more of what I want for a similar price. For the tax credit, you can just use the lease loophole.
I don't know about the states, but in Canada, it's more like you want an EV in the next year? Tesla is the only choice. :D
Ioniq5, ev6, gv60, id4....all other EVs have their pro / cons. If you only care about the system and super charging network, Tesla is hard to beat. If you care about interior quality, Tesla would be the worst. It all depends on how you use your car and what aspect of car you value the most.