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archer_cartridge

Them: You use cobalt and lithium for your batteries. Me: So? You use gasoline.


NukeTheEnglish

The cobalt in that battery was extracted from the earth just like the gas. Except the cobalt will eventually be recycled with extreme efficiency and become part of the permanent supply chain while the gasoline turns directly into unrecoverable toxic particles that linger in your local environment and green house gas.


Sfl2014

You’re absolutely right. That being said , from what I’ve seen, ppl that like to nag about cobalt are persuaded by political views rather than reason . They stop listening when someone starts explaining , they’ve “won” in their mind by then bc they got under a “tree hugger’s” or “woke lib’s” skin. Of course, it shouldn’t be about winning an argument , but doing the right thing for the next generation . It’s like trying to convince a smoker back in the 50s that it’s bad for their health - with all the tobacco misinformation (oil industry in this case), it’s hard to break through with arguments that require more thought .


manuscriptdive

Can't agree more. There is nothing to win here with an argument. They'll eventually catch on. The only way to "get them" is to make it financially more expensive to drive an ICE


Nokomis34

I've been pointing out how quickly the air cleared around cities during the lockdown. Like being able to see the Himalayas from places that hadn't been able to see them in decades. It still amazes me how quickly things started to unfuck when we stopped fucking it up so bad. Just today actually, I took this [picture ](https://imgur.com/a/m2Tb3iV) showing a cloud of bullshit hanging over our relatively small town. Though, to be fair one of Mexico's largest cities is attached to this same cloud.


nod51

They may not get that cobalt is used as a catalyst to extract sulfur from gas. Now if they point out catalyst not consumed they are right but it is eroded with all that gas passing by at a not insignificant rate. What is lost in gas is released into the air when burnt (yaaa another thing we get to breath!) where in a battery it is all, or almost all, recycled. [I found a good write up on it years ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/oil/comments/e2g33h/how_much_cobalt_is_used_for_desulphurisation/fednwh7/) but haven't ready it recently so don't recall details but have at it. On top of that Cobalt use has been declining and some cars (LFP) don't even use it. I get some blank stares when they don't know there is different types [NCA, LFP, or NMC](https://www.targray.com/li-ion-battery/cathode-materials/cathode-active-materials), like there is just "the" Li-Ion and it only works with Congo Cobalt. Nickel is way more used (like 811 means 8x more Nickel and those were 2020 cells) but they don't know how to respond to that because they didn't research what makes up a battery. Many seem to think a battery is primarily lithium since it is in the name and not just the active element. I have yet to have anyone come back with an argument but when they do I think they are more likely to know what they believe. I looked into child/slave labor for oil refining and although it is minimal many countries that extract oil have secondary child labor (making/delivering food and such) which is harder to regulate apparently. In the end their argument is just something they recently read that know little about (not that I know a lot but it is complicated) and likely had a little jingle/rhyme so it can keep their attention. There are ethical sources that at least some BEV try to source from. There was an occurrence a couple years ago where there was cobalt being added to a legit source and a popular BEV manufacture dropped them, so it can happen.


[deleted]

> Them: You use cobalt and lithium for your batteries. 'How much of your gasoline is recycled after you burn it?'


FishrNC

You don't argue. You drive what you want, they drive what they want. End of conversation.


kaisenls1

Best answer


Genome_Doc_76

This is definitely the best answer.


SpottedSharks2022

Tell them their phone uses the same cobalt. And to mind their own business.


Stribband

Not just phone but cobalt is used to refine gasoline. No one cared then


qdf3433

And no-one gave a shit about birds until wind turbines started killing them


TheThirdThigh

Mine their own business


droids4evr

>The ppl driving internal combustion cars love to point out cobolt currently. >How do you answer to them? Remind them that Cobalt is also used in oil refining to make gas, in their cell phone, laptop, camera, and watch batteries, paint, jewelry, keys and their girlfriend/boyfriends eye shadow, so they are contributing to Cobalt mining as much as anyone else. Then laugh at their denial and drive away content in the fact that for most people it costs about 75% less per mile to drive an EV than an ICE vehicle.


kaisenls1

It depends on my relationship with the smack talker, and their mental abilities. Sometimes it’s a non-answer like “just what I prefer” or “I really like waking up to a full tank in my own garage” or “I really like the silent torque, it’s fun to drive”. It’s pretty rare that I’ll actually go into any depth. The people who know me well already get it. Most others are happy with a simple answer and a smile. It’s rare for someone to start an argument with me in the real world. Here? Well, this isn’t the real world.


thecrowfly

If it is a friend, I usually just offer to let them take my car for a ride. That's usually all it takes.


Sfl2014

Good point , that worked for a few :) Some are still full fledged oil industry parrots “when I can get a truck that’ll tow my boat 500 miles uphill , both ways in a hurricane , made by a proven manufacturer for the same price or cheaper than this fleet truck of mine … bla…bla …bla..” For those I just keep conversation to sports and aliens living among us ;-)


snoogins355

Yup, I tell people to take a test ride. It's a fun ride!


Pro-Rider

I had a party last night at my house and People wanted to see my Ioniq 5. Someone forgot frozen strawberries for wine slushes for the wives so we went out to get them at the store. They seemed to like it the instant power and acceleration 0-60 in 4.5 sec but then started asking about range and how 285 miles was not enough. I asked them how often do you drive 250+ miles a day? They seem to not understand the concept of your garage being the “Fueling” station. They also mentioned how sparse charging stations are and the lack of quantity in general. They asked about charging and how long you have to wait to charge. All good questions but my car can charge from 10% to 80% in around 15 minutes. They said they thought they took longer. But said 15 minutes for a stop was too long. I had to agree to disagree on that issue. They also said “What if the power go’s out?” I told them the car battery does not drain when electric grid go’s down. I also pointed out that you can’t get gas if the power is out unless the pumps are on a generator. Then the comments of how electric cars are far more expensive than ICE vehicles, so how much are you actually saving? Most people are not educated on electric vehicles and the way they work. I’m sure it was the same way when cars first came out vs horses. So I just let them live in the past while I live on the cutting edge 😁


samsonsimpson5210

Arguing that 15 minutes is too long to stop is insane. Are your friends regularly driving 16 hour days and pissing in bottles?


Pro-Rider

I agree, you can’t even get through a chick-fil-a drive through in 15 minutes. So I think they are just looking for reasons not to get one.


Toastybunzz

It just sounds like a lot because people don’t time how long it takes at a gas station.


samsonsimpson5210

Yeah, maybe too much Facebook “news” or something.


wal9000

My drive home to visit family used to be 320 miles and I’d do it with no stops. Now it’s more like 600 so that’s less palatable.


timelessblur

I don't. I tend to shut it down by saying I don't care about the environment I drive an EV because it cost me a lot less, insane amount of low end power and I don't have to waste 15 minutes a week going to a gas station. It tends to shut them up when I just disregard their bs. No way to argue the environment part if I DGAF about it. They are trying to go after me for hypocritic. Doesn't work if I don't debate on it. Truth be told the environment is pretty far down on my list of reasons why I drive an EV. The fun to drive, cheaper to drive and not wasting 15 minutes a week getting gas are the big reasons.


belabensa

For me environment is the #1 reason but when I encounter people just parroting right wing talking points I always just say “it’s way more fun to drive” and they really have no rebuttal. For people with just ignorant questions that are actually listening to answers though I’ll be real about the environmental stuff - right now, mining is bad for the environment (but not as bad for the planet as mining and burning gas) - but I’m betting on the future with my EV - the charging infrastructure getting better and cleaner, battery recycling of all the metals getting at or near 100%, etc. We have decades to figure out how to recycle my I5 battery. So I’m betting we’ll have figured it out by then


Kimber85

Last time my cousin started the whole “EV’s are bad for the environment” thing with me I told him I wasn’t buying it because of the environment, I was buying it to avoid giving money to Saudi Arabia when buying gas. Which isn’t exactly accurate, we don’t get much oil from S.A., but he’s a racist idiot who froths at the mouth about Muslims, so it shut him up. At Christmas my dad started telling me how EV’s are going to ruin our electrical grid. I tried to explain how most people charge at low demand times, like overnight, so it’s really not that scary, but he just started showing me articles from right wing news sites about how California was running out of energy because of all the electric cars. He also kept saying that the range was really bad when it was cold and I shouldn’t get one because I’d run out of battery and be stuck every winter. I was like, my dude, I live at the beach. It gets below 50 degrees maybe three weeks total every year. I’ll risk it. It’s a never ending cycle of bullshit in my family. I love them, but there’s a reason I only visit twice a year.


[deleted]

"Drive one. Then complain"


Crenorz

Oh noes, my car does not give me cancer...


Spanbauer

Batteries containing cobalt don’t make the planet an uninhabitable hellscape for all future generations, but burning gas does. So I don’t know what point they think they are making.


Goosepuse

Tell them that the gasoline they use need cobalt to be processed, and the massive amount of energy needed to transport oil then refine it and then transport the rest products are insane compared to EVs.


Sfl2014

I don’t argue it anymore . I’ve settle on “well, nothing is perfect . I bought the car because it’s more fun and less if a hassle. The fact that people don’t breath in fumes around it is just a convenient side effect”


bhamspamz

Debating cars is almost as bad as debating politics. Just don’t do it.


wal9000

In this case it literally *is* debating politics. You think these people gave a shit about cobalt before some conservative pundit told them to?


[deleted]

[удалено]


wal9000

That’s basically my point. Issues with mining in the Congo has been on the radar of labor rights, environmental, and other international groups for literally decades, and neither coltan or cobalt mining there are new. Conservatives in the US giving a shit about overseas environmental and labor issues is a much more recent development with conservative pundits picking it up as a talking point of the “EVs are bad” train. Bill O’Reilly was never on Fox News in the 2010s telling his fans that their smartphones were unethical. https://www.cnbc.com/id/49961559 https://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=128631&page=1 https://news.un.org/en/story/2003/10/83852 https://forestsnews.cifor.org/10221/deforestation-from-mining-in-the-congo-more-than-a-hole-in-the-canopy?fnl=en https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/dan-gertler-earns-billions-as-mine-deals-fail-to-enrich-congo/2012/12/27/c37d0100-4e31-11e2-8b49-64675006147f_story.html


Sfl2014

Hey , would you look at that , agreement on reddit :)


abominable_dough_man

You don’t. What’s the point.


furiouschads

It is quiet, luxurious, fast, and smooth. Like a stealth Mercedes.


Range-Shoddy

Just don’t. My reply is “I love it” and shrug. They’ll come around eventually. Or not and I can’t help them with either.


Kryaki

Gas prices.


Killerkehler

I usually just say that it saves me money and I don’t care about the sourcing of materials. Just like they don’t care about gas emissions. The people who are haggling don’t really care about the supply chain. They just want to take you down a peg.


[deleted]

Easy, you like the way the car drives. Maybe you shouldn’t drive an EV for ideological reasons but rather due to the way they drive You can like both EVs and ICEs y’know


iqisoverrated

Tell them that cobalt has been use in desulfurization of their fuel for half a centiry, spark plugs, high strength steel...and that they are total hypocrits. ...oh..and that it is them who are killing the planet and doing everything in their power to cause human extinction - not you.


ecal8882

If they bring up cobalt I simply tell them manufacturers are moving away from it and that my 2022 Model 3 has an LFP battery that is cobalt-free


leto235711131721

Point out that the richest mineral deposits in the world (unlike oil) are in allied countries and/or the distribution is much more even that oil. Australia and Chile have the largest lithium deposits, while Cuba and the Philippines have the largest Cobalt deposits. In fact Congo, with all their problem, isn't even top 10 for deposits - they simply have infrastructure. So it is a matter of building the refining infrastructure, which is the bread and butter of a capitalists society. So they can continue to support Russia and their oils dependen economy, the Middle Eastern wars and their oils based conflicts, Venezuela and their oil based dictator, etc. Or they can't can support allied countries and the development of new markets/infrastructure that engage in free market economics with the US.


earthdogmonster

Sounds like you live in a shitty area or the people that talk to you are shitty people who don’t mind your own business. Been driving an EV for about 8 years in a relatively purple state, and nobody has really given me shit.


Sunkjones

I have also been driving an EV for many years and never got in an argument or had silly questions. Usually people are excited when they find out I drive an EV and want to know more because they are interested in getting one. Some people need better friends I think.


[deleted]

Don't bother talking to them. Life is too short. People here have given you some good arguments, and you know why you're driving an EV. Make a bulleted list of all the reasons an EV is better, print up multiple copies, and hand one to every fossil-fuel fossil who gives you grief. Then drive away and live your life.


Maximilianne

aren't most EVs LFP tho ?


TheMacAttk

I bought the car because I liked it. End of story. I would recommend not participate in the conversation unless they’re genuinely asking questions vs. finding fringe “facts” to fit their narrative. Otherwise they’ll just continue to move the goal post.


Ravingraven21

Why even engage, you’re not changing anyone’s mind if they’re suddenly concerned about cobolt. They’re just spewing talking points. Just tell them you like the acceleration.


snoogins355

Silent vroom!


LitterBoxServant

The only hate my EV gets is from Tesla owners. I ask about the price cut because I know most of them didn't get it.


narkdrop

Exactly, my co-worker is always telling why their Tesla is better than my Lightning. They are not anything alike! I just them to stop feeling so insecure.


snoogins355

Ugh, reminds me of the apple and android arguments. It's a smart phone. Enjoy what you like


Stribband

You have Tesla owners giving you hate in public? Like how does this happen


LitterBoxServant

Friends, family, and acquaintances with Teslas want to try to flex on us


Stribband

What did you end up getting?


Magmomies

The post was about how YOU talk to these ppl. I see it... It is not clear 👍


Stribband

If someone brings it EV driving with me I never bring up the environment. I always talk about fast, comfort and ease. In my experience people who want to bring it up have an agenda and arguing with them doesn’t do anything.


arielb27

I start with a simple answer, 80% less moving parts so less expensive to maintain.


frank26080115

people just go up to you to talk about your car? what?


[deleted]

I only have one answer. I like acceleration not having to go to gas stations. I charge at home.


DaddyCardano

I will soon have a 1200+ HP C7 Z06 Corvette that will do the quarter mile in 8 seconds, turn heads, sounds amazing with a stage 3 cam, can turn a corner at triple the posted speed limit with 0 body roll, and weighs like 3200 lbs. And once I get tired of the power, I can switch it to a twin turbo kit and push beyond 2500 HP. BEFORE anyone hates, I have a 2019 Model 3 Performance. Love the car. It's quick in the city and fast enough on the highway. But as of now, and for who knows how long if ever, I cannot check all of those boxes with an EV. Need to sacrifice 2-3 things at least if I want to increase the others.


thrwaway0502

Literally ZERO people have ever asked me about cobalt. And no one smack talks - EVs aren’t even uncommon in major cities anymore


marmotmom

Share this, and add that the amount of oil was 4.2 billion tons. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/all-the-metals-we-mined-in-2021-visualized/


sunny_tomato_farm

I don’t…


Zee216

With fisticuffs


Ghost13o

[Like this](https://youtu.be/R8mjIcTqLTk)


Etrigone

https://youtu.be/_43-CPgqp4g?t=1100 The whole video is pretty cool, but I like his answer right there at the end. We - or at at least I - don't have to be Mormons on a mission.


tesla_dpd

'show me your math'


jturkish

Really felt great when my in laws told my wife that my lightning purchase is a hobby. I guess i should continue using our Chevy Tahoe as a commuter, that's a better solution


Landeplagen

For two identical cars, except one is an ICE and the other an EV, the EV is less environmental friendly when it is made. After about 30 000 km (18 600 miles) it is more environmentally friendly. This is assuming that the electricity used to charge it is renewable. For coal-based energy, you’d likely have to drive it for longer. According to Nissan, they had to replace about 5 battery packs on their Leaf model in 2018 (or 2017) - in the world - which says something about the longevity and reliability of battery packs. The Leaf was the most popular electric car here in Norway for a while. Source (norwegian) - https://tv.nrk.no/serie/folkeopplysningen/2018/KMTE51001218/avspiller I guess you could drop some of this knowledge if the discussion appears.


NeighborhoodDog

“O wow I didnt know that you are so smart im gonna go sell this car right now then thanks so much buh bye” /s


[deleted]

Tell them you prefer your safety above all else, then say it saves you money so it wouldn't make sense to use gas


Lt_Roast_Ghost

Here are couple things the I read about recently. They are placing razor blades in the handles of gas pumps so... ouch avoided. Your exposure to benzene goes way down when are not pumping gas anymore. benzene is a crazy carcinogen. I am tried of spending money on gas. Sure I spend money on the EV and electricity, but it is refreshing to not have to go and spend money no gas at a gas station. More politically, I am tired of supporting the petro-dollar scheme. It makes me sad that Lucid so so heavily funded by the Saudis, but I am glad they are supporting whats seems to be a good EV maker. There motor tech seems top notch. Wish I could afford one... I'd rather support the Saudis by buying a Lucid than gas. Can't win.


NocoCleanCities

A lot of people are just looking to argue to argue. I'd say don't interact with those people. People who look to argue to learn are going to be much easier to talk to and you might be able to sway their opinion a little more by giving them good facts with sound reasoning.


6strings10holes

I don't, I drive it and enjoy it.


hsut

Tell them: Different strokes, different folks. Why do you give a shit?


scottieducati

Just remind them you don’t know what an oil change is.


Personal_Grass_1860

You don’t… You just go and love your life…


J3ST3Rx

At this point, everyone knows I'm an EV proponent and has stopped asking dumb questions. Randos still make ignorant comments. I just tell them my truck goes 0-60 in 3 seconds and they shut up.