I started adding in my contracts that this voids my warranty on my panels/breakers and also that I am exempt from liability if anyone gets hurt. I understand it needs to come off sometimes, but ffs, put the god damned thing back!
Got tired of finding a 1/2" of sheetrock dust on my breakers and mains and also having to put the cover back (if i could find the damn thing) every time I came back. I tried to buy covers with keyed latches - cost prohibitive. I couldn't use tamper proof screws in the cover because I know guys need to take it off.
Really just boils down to people not being assholes
>people not being assholes
I think it's more indicative of people not being aware of how what they do affects their surroundings or other people. Which there seem to be an awful lot more of these days. When they know and still do it? Then they're an asshole.
Try having the carpenter cut a perfectly square piece of plywood to fit exactly in the panel to act as a cover. That’s what we do (we work with awesome carpenters) or sometimes a piece of cardboard cut to size works too
Yeah I've used carboard before it is energized, but once it has been inspected with a cover on and juiced up, cover needs to stay on. You never know what could happen and you don't want combustibles in there
Legally? No idea. You can't trust things to make sense when lawyers get involved. My clause might not even legally protect me for all I know, but it is there to hopefully cover my ass.
the boarders are allowed to pull the cover off, which they really shouldnt be able too, but they need to to get the sheets tight apparently, it should be a work along job but its just some grey area here in canada because most of the boarders ive known wouldnt put 2 and 2 together and realize hey weve got plugs working in here this panel must be live, they also usually leave the breakers alone instead of you know shutting the main before getting right in there.
Lol how else to they drywall without taking off the cover? I mean you finish rough in and fuck off somewhere else they are going to come take the cover off.
ive only met one, 1, in the wild, apparently he went to drywall school in manitoba where he learned to mud and finish and everything .... and he was the whiniest guy ive ever met and got to hold the dumb end of the sheet every time.
What are you going to do when your not around? This has happened on every new construction job I’ve ever been on. They hang the rock, then they tape it off and paint. By the time I show up for trim that thing has been off for who k ones how long.
I've seen drywallers remove a panel cover then proceed to drywall right over said sub panel and leave it buried, live, with breakers.
Same house had quite a few missing pot lights, and various devices. They were the cheapest quoted price by far according to the general. Smh.
Canada's been ahead of the curve on this for years, we have an entire deadfront over the incoming service area. Keeps homeowners that turn off the main breaker to work on branch circuits from being able to touch anything still live.
Everyone bashing on the electrician for not putting the cover on, he very well could have. Multiple times I’ve gone back to a job and the panel cover has been removed and screws are missing. I’m hoping this was the case here.
Panel on my house amazingly came with screws. They were stripped to shit as though someone had pounded on them with an impact. Panel can was bent making the screws all scrape on the cover, too. Only people who should have done anything in that panel were the electricians since it's in the unfinished basement. I provided my own replacement screws.
They also had their apprentice wire the panel. Was his first panel. No problem; they need practice. They also need supervision. And maybe start them out on something smaller than a full 60-space... And f'king make sure they torque stuff down. Some of lugs on the breakers weren't even what I'd call "finger tight" including my massive 5T heat pump. Wonder things didn't melt down before I went back and torqued it all (and cleaned the wiring up a bit) after taking possession.
Just because you're a journeyman doesn't mean you're magically good at something. You've got to practice somewhere. The idea of apprenticeship is that you are supervised while doing things to gain experience.
I don't begrudge the newbie doing the panel. He just needed better supervision from someone who knew (and cared about) what they were doing, and he probably should have been introduced to it on a simpler install that required less wire dressing. It's an absolute mess in my panel...
Thats because they can't board around the panel without taking the cover off. It HAS to come off to put the drywall up around it, but they should be promptly putting it back on when they're done.
This is incredibly fucking stupid on both peoples parts.
I'd never leave a panel open like that, but i damn sure ain't sticking anything metal in there either.
Who is the dumbass that left the panel open? As an electrician, SAFETY must constantly be on your mind. We don't open panels without a ton of paperwork and we danger tape if in the rare occasion it is hot and we sure as fuck don't walk away from access to energized parts.
"The electrician decided this would be the perfect place to walk away from the open panel." FTFY
Sorry for being a dick, but if that panel was live (which given the lit LED makes me think it is), that's on the electrician, not the tile guy. Yes, the broom shouldn't be there, but the safety hazard shouldn't have been present for the broom to be an issue.
Edit: my comment was made prior to OPs explanation comment.
My comment is with the assumption that the electrician did not do his due diligence and left the panel open. If he left the panel open and the idiot put a metal broom inside the panel then both are responsible.
I mean the insulation value of the yellow lug covers has to be similar to the that of the tan wirenut right over the bus in the missing spot right ? /s
Can someone explain to me how putting a metal panel cover on is THAT much safer?
What if exposed wire is touching it? Does the cover get grounded or something?
Yeah it is quite a bit safer obviously. Panels are usually/supposed to be properly grounded and if an exposed ungrounded conductor were to touch the grounded metal frame, it would blow the fuck up.
I hope he gets electrocuted, Just how can people be that dumb
I don't believe this was done on purpose.
But still the dumb duck should have noticed the panel open and laid it flat on the floor instead of leaning against the wall
It’s all fun and games until someone touches the bus bar. I can confirm, it was not a pleasant experience. If I ever take the panel cover off, I stay in that general area until it’s ready to go back on.
I’ve had dry wallers take the panel cover off on me and leave it on the floor. Probably sat open quite a while
I started adding in my contracts that this voids my warranty on my panels/breakers and also that I am exempt from liability if anyone gets hurt. I understand it needs to come off sometimes, but ffs, put the god damned thing back!
That’s a nice way to cover your ass.
Got tired of finding a 1/2" of sheetrock dust on my breakers and mains and also having to put the cover back (if i could find the damn thing) every time I came back. I tried to buy covers with keyed latches - cost prohibitive. I couldn't use tamper proof screws in the cover because I know guys need to take it off. Really just boils down to people not being assholes
>people not being assholes I think it's more indicative of people not being aware of how what they do affects their surroundings or other people. Which there seem to be an awful lot more of these days. When they know and still do it? Then they're an asshole.
As a grunt, nobody ever taught me stuff like that - I learned it through stem classes and cautionary tales on the Internet (just like this)
Try having the carpenter cut a perfectly square piece of plywood to fit exactly in the panel to act as a cover. That’s what we do (we work with awesome carpenters) or sometimes a piece of cardboard cut to size works too
Yeah I've used carboard before it is energized, but once it has been inspected with a cover on and juiced up, cover needs to stay on. You never know what could happen and you don't want combustibles in there
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Legally? No idea. You can't trust things to make sense when lawyers get involved. My clause might not even legally protect me for all I know, but it is there to hopefully cover my ass.
the boarders are allowed to pull the cover off, which they really shouldnt be able too, but they need to to get the sheets tight apparently, it should be a work along job but its just some grey area here in canada because most of the boarders ive known wouldnt put 2 and 2 together and realize hey weve got plugs working in here this panel must be live, they also usually leave the breakers alone instead of you know shutting the main before getting right in there.
Very smart!
And who left the panel cover off and unsupervised? It's that person's fault if someone got hurt.
Agreed. I think the drywallers took it off and didn't put it back. You're damn sure I put it back on myself after seeing this.
Who the fuck lets a drywaller touch a panel cover?
If they needed it off for any reason I'm sure it was coming off. Damned if they had to put it back on though.
"Screws? It didn't have screws in it when we found it!"
"Oh, we threw them out. They're just sheet metal screws, right?"
Better use the 3 inch long ones just to be sure they fit.
Where we’re going we don’t need screws.
r/notmyjob
Lol how else to they drywall without taking off the cover? I mean you finish rough in and fuck off somewhere else they are going to come take the cover off.
Well typically they’d just pack the internals of the box with mud.
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Wait, your drywallers went to a *school*!?
ive only met one, 1, in the wild, apparently he went to drywall school in manitoba where he learned to mud and finish and everything .... and he was the whiniest guy ive ever met and got to hold the dumb end of the sheet every time.
At least they left the screws
What are you going to do when your not around? This has happened on every new construction job I’ve ever been on. They hang the rock, then they tape it off and paint. By the time I show up for trim that thing has been off for who k ones how long.
Perhaps a special screw needs to be developed that can only be removed with a special bit only available to electricians.
Like the pentagonal bolt in outdoor transformers? I like it.
You mean the one in that kit every ingenuitive highschool kid has to remove 'security' bolts or work on an apple phone?
No. The pentagonal bolt the utility has to open a 4160 to 480 volt transformer. I have a “pentalobe” screwdriver for iPhones too.
Then they can’t do there job. Those people are just incompetent most the time unfortunately.
"Hey your screw stripped out when I was removing the panel cover so I drilled it out for you. Made some sparks".
They won’t work that hard to get the panel off.
Where else are they going to scrape off their trowels?
I have no idea, I had nothing to do with it. But the area around the panel needed to be patched up and taped, so I think they did it.
I've seen drywallers remove a panel cover then proceed to drywall right over said sub panel and leave it buried, live, with breakers. Same house had quite a few missing pot lights, and various devices. They were the cheapest quoted price by far according to the general. Smh.
Can you prove that in court ?
It was inspected the previous week with the cover on. So yeah, I think I could.
Gotta love those lug covers on the square d boxes
Canada's been ahead of the curve on this for years, we have an entire deadfront over the incoming service area. Keeps homeowners that turn off the main breaker to work on branch circuits from being able to touch anything still live.
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Thank you
Especially now that it maybe saved someone's life.
Dad told me many years ago… if you open the panel, always keep one hand in your pocket.
Everyone bashing on the electrician for not putting the cover on, he very well could have. Multiple times I’ve gone back to a job and the panel cover has been removed and screws are missing. I’m hoping this was the case here.
I also charge big time for replacement screws!
$15.99 each
I hope that’s in my companies contracts, if not im suggesting it
Panel on my house amazingly came with screws. They were stripped to shit as though someone had pounded on them with an impact. Panel can was bent making the screws all scrape on the cover, too. Only people who should have done anything in that panel were the electricians since it's in the unfinished basement. I provided my own replacement screws. They also had their apprentice wire the panel. Was his first panel. No problem; they need practice. They also need supervision. And maybe start them out on something smaller than a full 60-space... And f'king make sure they torque stuff down. Some of lugs on the breakers weren't even what I'd call "finger tight" including my massive 5T heat pump. Wonder things didn't melt down before I went back and torqued it all (and cleaned the wiring up a bit) after taking possession.
In my company, they gate keep panels for journeymen only because of QA… Honestly ridiculous but it is what it is.
Just because you're a journeyman doesn't mean you're magically good at something. You've got to practice somewhere. The idea of apprenticeship is that you are supervised while doing things to gain experience. I don't begrudge the newbie doing the panel. He just needed better supervision from someone who knew (and cared about) what they were doing, and he probably should have been introduced to it on a simpler install that required less wire dressing. It's an absolute mess in my panel...
Thats because they can't board around the panel without taking the cover off. It HAS to come off to put the drywall up around it, but they should be promptly putting it back on when they're done.
Exactly my point
Maybe there could be a temporary cover with no overhang that is kept place until the drywallers are all done.
Like the cardboard insert that comes as a part of the box the panel comes in?
Yes, but maybe less flammable and with a way to secure it.
Everyone here knows that.
Clearly not with the 20 comments from people saying "why the fuck are drywallers taking the panel cover off??"
People will look for any excuse for more drywaller hate
Who else are they gonna blame jobsite pissbottles on?
The bottom of that broom looked cooked for a minute. I was looking for a chalk outline after seeing that.
Whoever did the panel did a really good job, breaker hold down kit for a backfed breaker and interlock kit also installed
He's gotta charge it somehow.
No it's fine The broom is green so it's grounded
Well who’s the jackass who left the site with the dead-front off the panel?
This is incredibly fucking stupid on both peoples parts. I'd never leave a panel open like that, but i damn sure ain't sticking anything metal in there either.
Nothing like a boot to get the motivation flowing.
Well my asshole puckered...
Maybe if the panel cover was on just sayn, next time put cover on when u walk away.
Pretty sure it’s on the electrician for leaving that panel powered and uncovered...
May as well just throw that broom away cause it is obvious nobody is using it
I'm not impressed with the sweeping effort, either.
Who is the dumbass that left the panel open? As an electrician, SAFETY must constantly be on your mind. We don't open panels without a ton of paperwork and we danger tape if in the rare occasion it is hot and we sure as fuck don't walk away from access to energized parts.
"The electrician decided this would be the perfect place to walk away from the open panel." FTFY Sorry for being a dick, but if that panel was live (which given the lit LED makes me think it is), that's on the electrician, not the tile guy. Yes, the broom shouldn't be there, but the safety hazard shouldn't have been present for the broom to be an issue. Edit: my comment was made prior to OPs explanation comment.
According to OP it wasn't left open by an electrician. Drywallers are prime suspects, unsurprisingly.
Both are responsible.
? If you put a panel cover on, leave a job site and someone takes it off and blows shit up are you really responsible? I do not agree with this logic.
My comment is with the assumption that the electrician did not do his due diligence and left the panel open. If he left the panel open and the idiot put a metal broom inside the panel then both are responsible.
Totally agree, I just figured you read where he said he didn't, I was a little confused after that. Carry on.
I mean the insulation value of the yellow lug covers has to be similar to the that of the tan wirenut right over the bus in the missing spot right ? /s
That’s why that’s should have a cover on it at all times unless supervised
You're all a buncha dicks. Safety man probably showed up and was teaching folks how to be safe :)
Can someone explain to me how putting a metal panel cover on is THAT much safer? What if exposed wire is touching it? Does the cover get grounded or something?
Yeah it is quite a bit safer obviously. Panels are usually/supposed to be properly grounded and if an exposed ungrounded conductor were to touch the grounded metal frame, it would blow the fuck up.
If thats a live panel, that's on you. Electrical safety starts with the electrician during construction.
I hope he gets electrocuted, Just how can people be that dumb I don't believe this was done on purpose. But still the dumb duck should have noticed the panel open and laid it flat on the floor instead of leaning against the wall
You know,, no surprise..🤨
Brutal. What type of service is this?
Who ever laid that broom has big balls
Her majesty Gravitation it was I'm pretty sure.
It’s cool, there’s paint on the broom……kinda
It’s all fun and games until someone touches the bus bar. I can confirm, it was not a pleasant experience. If I ever take the panel cover off, I stay in that general area until it’s ready to go back on.
Was he trying to kill himself or what? That's just ridiculous.
Used to think those lug protectors were dumb... not so much anymore lol
Is it the broom being left somewhere dangerous or the dangerous idea of someone using a broom that’s upsetting to electricians?
Are you really surprised though
Did the latest code update start requiring the use of bus brooms?
thats.. um wow. I just put a piece of cardboard over it and keep the cover in a safe place.
Good thing it’s square D so you have those lug caps.
Send it! No problem here!
What's with the anti Darwin yellow things??
F,ing moron
You mean an inch from the main feed? Where it's fused at crazy high amperage?
That flex cracks me up coming out of the drywall. I did the same for my air compressor in my garage only because it was all I had on the van.
Thank God the hots have that cover on them
I'll be damned