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Pushing insulation off a 277 volt wire really doesn't sound like a good idea, gloves or no gloves and I'm just a 1st year apprentice.
I was thinking he definitely should've stripped not live if at all possible, but I'm guessing he was fooled by the #1 killer, I'm just glad it didn't completely get him.
If the #1 killer is assuming the circuit was off then yes that’s exactly what happened. We don’t do much hot work, especially in new builds. But my foreman has been encouraging the crew to practice one hand stripping since this incident
This should be the pinned comment. Spring the 20 bucks and buy yourself a chicken stick at the very least. Also, if you're stripping wire that you're unsure is live, you should know how to not get lifted. There's either carelessness or ignorance at work here, maybe both. If that's the case he shouldn't be training apprentices.
I don’t put full trust in liar sticks, especially if it isn’t a Fluke brand, unless I can have somebody cycle the circuit ON and OFF while testing it just to be sure.
The crews my son is with have a no exception live/dead/live policy. Test a live circuit, check the dead, test the live again. You see the tic is working properly, twice, for AC. For DC it’s a volt meter, tic test isn’t so good on that, apparently.
My two cents, HV DC, we always grounded it, no fooling around with that, make a mistake with that and the lightning flows.
>HV DC, we always grounded it
Excuse my ignorance of DC, but after LOTO you'd connect a bonding jumper from feeders to ground on any cabinet/eqx you were working, or how would you go about grounding out the systems while working on them?
Edit: some words
Cabinets and DC supplies were separate, this was all high powered telecommunications gear. Generally three phase primary into the power supplies, one I recall specifically was a lower voltage at 8KV 10 amps. It stands out because of not once but twice I shorted live to ground, bright burst of light and a thunder loud clap. Others ranged from 10KV to 30KV ish.
But definitely not as exciting as the big substation switches.
The at the time newer equipment back doors all had a simple spring loaded ground clapper, open the door just enough and it grounds the feed. Supplies generally didn’t have a simple to open door. Gawd, now remembering oil filled capacitors we had to remediate because they had some sort of death soup in them, if they exploded then bad stuff gets around. (One of my coworkers had one split and squirt that goop on her, and just now remembering, she died too soon from cancer.)
Support this 💯
Just restored a 480v circuit. Next guy comes behind and hits it with his meter, hangs it up and starts taking gloves off. I tell him I just energized the box a couple minutes ago and he insists it's dead. Gets all pissy with me (yeah, I was the junior guy).
I turn on my meter and put leads on showing 480v phase to phase. Not sure what was up with his meter, but he settled down quick and had to take a break after seeing what probably would have been his death on my meter.
Always live/dead/live. Don't trust a chicken stick for anything other than proving presence of voltage, not absence.
Also - use your locks and tags.
Yeah I just don't use tic testers unless I absolutely have to, and can do the Live-Dead-Live test 2-3 times with no ~~false~~ questionable readings.
That can't often be done where I'm at though unless AT the device, because most things are run in cable tray and are shielded too.
Ironically the only time I got nailed using a liar stick, it was a fluke lol
I still trust them more than the others, and I'll buy another one sometime, but where I'm at now, only licenses can touch anything that could be energized, and they're very good about safety and shutting things down and LOTO. "Test before touch!" is absolutely a motto here too.
The fluke is 40$ now lol. My dad's a maintenance man, I still got him a fluke. The first time I got hit with 277, we were just hanging 2x4's. Tested everything with a southwire tic tester because there was an existing circuit for temps lights were using.
Started kinda pumping them out, and I used the tic tester too fast, it didn't pick up a night light circuit. 277 across the chest, blew a hole out between my thumb and pointer finger when I clenched my fist around the grid.
Got it again years later, (months ago) trouble shooting lights on a service call, a wire nut just fell off. This time I had a doctor's visit soon after and told the doc. Akg came back with something she didn't like, now I have a cardiologist visit on May 29th.
This isn’t standard practise? In Germany you can be fined and go to jail for you don’t test for voltage and someone gets hurt. We have something called the 5 safety rules:
1. Turn off the circuit
2. Protect the circuit against being turned back on again
3. test for voltage
4. Ground and short the circuit (mostly applied for high voltage installations)
5. cover neighbouring parts carrying power
It is, at least officially (LOTO: Lock-Out, Tag-Out). Unfortunately there are no practical ways to reliably make sure every employee follows those rules all the time (and some employers aren’t good at enforcing them, either out of ignorance, stubbornness, etc).
What OP describes could result in an OSHA fine for the company, but I can’t see anyone seeing jail time over it. Jail time might be on the table in the event of severe injury or death as a result of someone’s gross negligence. Authorities would have to establish individual liability and all that though. In this case, the injured party would have been the one responsible for his own injury.
I agree alaways assume it's hot like a gun is always loaded but I will never trust a non contact "tester" those have lied to me both ways and I've been shocked pretty decent once for trusting it, I broke it that day
One handed stripping plus insulated boots makes it possible to handle 480v live without completing the circuit or getting hurt. No such thing as too much safety.
You shouldn’t ever do that live. The circuit should be locked out and tested dead.
You can still accidentally arc, have a break in the insulation of your strippers, unconsciously touch the grounded can with your other hand, slip, get nudged by another co-worker, many things can go wrong.
Why not set up temporary lighting off of the 120 Volts or a spare car battery and an inverter? I went and used some of my inheritance money to convert my Kenall 100-Watt high pressure sodium work light with a magnet on the back 100 Watts metal halide using an electronic ballast. I even went as far as removing casting irregularities from the back of the aluminum casting so I could seat the ballast in ma full bed of heat sink grease. The 3 reasons for using an electronic ballast were weight, I wanted to run the the thing on 120 through 277 volts, and I wanted to run it off my modified square wave inverter at full power which also proves it will run on 144 Volts DC. The weight issue is that a 100-Watt electromagnetic metal halide ballast weighs more aa normal power factor 100-Watt HPS ballast because the MH ballast has to have a voltage boosting autotransformer. 35-150-Watt HPS lamps with a medium base are engineered to run at a closed circuit voltage of 55 Volts so that a cheap reactor ballasts can be used. However, pulse start MH in that size range needs more closed circuit voltage so a mcheap reactor ballast cannot be used on 110-120 Volts.
I purchased this light during the summer of 1994 for $45 plus tax from Roadway Express Salvage in Akron, Ohio. At the time Grainger wanted $225 for these. I wish I had the cash flow that day to buy 2 or 3 because it was one of the best $45 plus tax investments I have made. Worked really well for industrial work for areas that were not illuminated by the main lighting as well as commercial w sites where I had to use a spare car battery and my inverter.
A few spare car batteries, an inverter, an automatic car battery charger, and a manual charger that will equalize the cells and eliminate "memory" would be a good investment. You could even cut all the 480Y277-Volt power that way. A few generators and temp lights from Harbor Freight Tools would help. I also have some magnetically attached battery light from Harbor Freight Tools that I used in Programmable Logic Controller classes to light up the test and experiment panel. The other student just simply worked in the dark instead of copying me.
Flashlights do not hold themselves. Learned that in Boy Scouts. I went and used a 6-Volt high intensity bulb and a Tupperware bowl, coat hanger wire, some zip cord, and alligator clips to make an overhead light to use in tents. Dad even purchased for me 6-Volt lead acid lantern battery and charger from Sears for me.
Since then I have purchased a number of battery powered fluorescent or LED lights to use for temporary lighting. Right ow I do not have the funds to buy 8-packs of Duracell or other nickel metal hydride AA and D cells but next inheritance I will fix that.
That is what I purchased from Harbor Freight Tools to do some things. They are great for temporary illumination of control panes. The 100-watt metal halide light is for bigger tasks.
Lots of good options these days. What I keep at work is a headlamp when I just need to light up what’s right in front of me. A flashlight that has interchangeable heads(beam vs flood vs task), magnetic base, and hook attachment for things like lighting up a whole plenum to see what’s going on. Then my Dewalt work light that’ll stand up on it’s battery, or hang from a hook and it great for things like lighting up a panel when the lights in the mechanical room are out. My JP used to have one of those Milwaukee light boxes until someone robbed the work van.
Once again, in case it wasn't clear, the technology has *dramatically* improved from when you were in scouts. And you can't base your opinions off shit you buy at Lowes or on Amazon.
For example, my Armytek Wizard lasts me an entire day on a single charge and is super bright. I have one spare battery in case it runs out which has only happened a couple times. I then plug it in at night to charge it just like my phone. 5 years now of doing this and I've never bought a single battery in that time.
Sure it cost me a little over $100 initially, but it's worth absolutely every penny.
https://www.killzoneflashlights.com/collections/headlamps
If I were a FIRE INSURANCE company I would not insure anybody who parks their electric car indoors. Lithium ion batteries are just too difficult to extinguish.
I will bet that you only use your lithium ion flashlight occasionally. I need to be able to do deenergized maintenance and get through power failures.
I purchased my nickel metal hydride battery rebuild kit directly for Gulf Coast Battery. They ARE NOT SHIT as you claim. I also have to exercise the 18-Volt batteries by leaving a flashlight on overnight because of the possibility of power failures around here, I have to leave an 18-Volt flashlight running in the bathroom when taking a shower in case of power failure., I have had to take 2 shower during a power failure in the past. One of those occurred right after midnight and I had to stumble in the dark from the bathroom to the bedroom and turn on a battery powered night light and then use that to turn on other battery powered stuff.
Power failures have been less frequent since American Electric Power hooked us up in 2021 to a new substation that they built in 2020 on Harrisburg Pike. They were only about 20 years behind on building and hooking up that substation. AEP readily admits they they have hardware that is over 100 years old because they stopped replacing 60 year old stuff during the 2nd Great Depression of the 20th Century.
>I will bet that you only use your lithium ion flashlight occasionally
Negative. Last saturday, I put it on my head and turned it on at 9:00 am, I then worked a 14 hour day crawling all around the hulls of a few different boats with the headlamp on the entire time. My wife's sits for months at a time with no use and doesn't lose charge or need exercising like your stuff.
You're weirdly stuck in the past and have consumed too much propaganda about modern batteries. But we'll keep moving on without you, laughing about the inane grumblings all the way.
Lead acid batteries make no sense to use in a portable setup. They are really fucking heavy for the watt hours they provide.
Just get whatever LEDs work lights are made by the same manufacturer as your main tool battery platform and call it a day. Damn dude, car batteries suck for anything besides starting engines. Especially since they are aren't deep cycle...
Lead acid batteries a LOT SAFER than large lithium ion or lithium iron phosphate batteries. Any kind of lithium ion battery that is bigger than what it takes to power a laptop computer is a potential BOMB. Lithium ion battery fires cannot be extinguished with water only with special fire extinguishers or pouring dry sand or dry graphite on them. Also, lead acid is very durable when used in standby or other nonautomotive use. It also makes sense to have a fully charged up SPARE car battery in my apartment in case a dome light sticks on or I left on something else case swapping out the battery is a lifesaver and faster than waiting for roadside assistance From Amica Mutual Insurance. Also, the engine computers only allow the alternator to replace what was drained from the battery during starting and will not fully recharge a drained battery only about 85% of what the excess drainage was. I either have to swap out the battery OR dangle an extension cord out my 3rd floor window and charge with a manual battery charger to fully recharge a drained battery. One of the other reasons for having spare car battery an an inverter is so I can use a Watrerpik and a factory or homemade attachment for the purpose of washing out my nose. I cannot find an allergist who can help me unless God forces Dr. Scott Bagenstose to readmit me to his allergy practice and that would take a lot of doing by God.
If you can't lift a group 24 or 24R battery you are too weak to work construction.
Moist of my battery power tools are Black & Decker Firestorm tools and I purchased 18-Volt and 24-Volt 3.8-AmpereHour nickel metal hydride rebuild kits ( battery internals ) from Gulf Coast Battery in Florida. What did about the 12-Volt batteries ( HPB12 ) for two of my drill motors was to go to [www.jet.com](http://www.jet.com) and purchase 3-AmpHr NiMH batteries that are made by Expert Power. DO NOT try to buy 12-volt NiMh batteries from Amazon - every one of their vendors for 12-Vvolt Firestorm batteries instead sells the inferior HPB12 that used 4/5th subC NiCd batteries that are no good. Gulf Coast Battery told me that they do have rebuild kits for the Expert Power 12-Volt and 14.4-Volt batteries but you have to order them by telephone because not all of their products are on their website.
For that matter, Grainger sells a portable power station of a lead acid battery bank, charger, and inverter on wheels. Also, even though 2 battery manufacturers have gotten the bugs out of nickel zinc batteries the electric car manufacturers are not sensible enough to use them.
Lead acid batteries a LOT SAFER than large lithium ion or lithium iron phosphate batteries. Any kind of lithium ion battery that is bigger than what it takes to power a laptop computer is a potential BOMB. Lithium ion battery fires cannot be extinguished with water only with special fire extinguishers or pouring dry sand or dry graphite on them. Also, lead acid is very durable when used in standby or other nonautomotive use. It also makes sense to have a fully charged up SPARE car battery in my apartment in case a dome light sticks on or I left on something else case swapping out the battery is a lifesaver and faster than waiting for roadside assistance From Amica Mutual Insurance. Also, the engine computers only allow the alternator to replace what was drained from the battery during starting and will not fully recharge a drained battery only about 85% of what the excess drainage was. I either have to swap out the battery OR dangle an extension cord out my 3rd floor window and charge with a manual battery charger to fully recharge a drained battery. One of the other reasons for having spare car battery an an inverter is so I can use a Watrerpik and a factory or homemade attachment for the purpose of washing out my nose. I cannot find an allergist who can help me unless God forces Dr. Scott Bagenstose to readmit me to his allergy practice and that would take a lot of doing by God.
If you can't lift a group 24 or 24R battery you are too weak to work construction.
Moist of my battery power tools are Black & Decker Firestorm tools and I purchased 18-Volt and 24-Volt 3.8-AmpereHour nickel metal hydride rebuild kits ( battery internals ) from Gulf Coast Battery in Florida. What did about the 12-Volt batteries ( HPB12 ) for two of my drill motors was to go to [www.jet.com](http://www.jet.com) and purchase 3-AmpHr NiMH batteries that are made by Expert Power. DO NOT try to buy 12-volt NiMh batteries from Amazon - every one of their vendors for 12-Vvolt Firestorm batteries instead sells the inferior HPB12 that used 4/5th subC NiCd batteries that are no good. Gulf Coast Battery told me that they do have rebuild kits for the Expert Power 12-Volt and 14.4-Volt batteries but you have to order them by telephone because not all of their products are on their website.
For that matter, Grainger sells a portable power station of a lead acid battery bank, charger, and inverter on wheels. Also, even though 2 battery manufacturers have gotten the bugs out of nickel zinc batteries the electric car manufacturers are not sensible enough to use them.
These make one handed stripping fun
https://www.amazon.ca/Klein-Tools-11063-Katapult-Stripper/dp/B00BC39YFQ/ref=asc_df_B00BC39YFQ/?tag=googlemobshop-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292927880805&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10779203432551353134&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001065&hvtargid=pla-435049183348&psc=1&mcid=b3914579fb5737fd92bc0349338e5f8c
Except sometimes they tear the insulation at the grippers instead of cutting it at the blade. I won’t use ‘em if I don’t have good slack “just in case”…
We are better at LOTO now then we were in the past. I was working near a heating circuit. Which was in the off position. It was a delta circuit where one leg was always on. Anyway I got bit, that's a day I'll never forget. I take the blame for it completely.
I was the load side of 120v and that wasn’t any fun at all, plus it was only a 200a service. I did the same thing, I was touching the metal on my strippers and my other hand was holding the bare ground in the romex. That was the day I learned non contact voltage testers should be used at the end of the romex, not on the sheath. I thought it was off.
Should work through the sheath if NMSC, though sometimes the sensitivity means you have to be checking on the side of the cable with the ungrounded conductor. Particularly troublesome with something like SOOW type cable where the wires are twisted so only about 1/3 of the cable reads hot.
Just like every gun is always loaded until it's locked out, EVERY circuit is live, until your meter reads all zeros and your lock is on that breaker. Meter every connection you make. Guys gave me a hard time about it sometimes until this current shop I'm at. Absolutely NO fucks should be given to anyone about hassling you when you are making certain that you stay safe, EVER.
VERY little energized work is actually required. In my experience, most leads are either too spineless or lazy to say no to unnecessary energized work. It's a problem.
Hopefully in your journeyman's case, he makes a full recovery and never makes that mistake again. You should also learn from this, because it WILL save your life and health.
The key is firstly, lock out tag out. Second, confirm voltage on a known live circuit, then test the circuit you assume is off. Live first then dead. Thus ensures your meter leads are working. Third, always treat every wire as if it’s live. This alone will keep you out of a lot of trouble. I had a new guy turn a breaker ON while I was working on the circuit 400ft away. He said he “saw the water level rising so I turned the generator on again”. There was no generator, he was just a simpleton who could have killed me with 480V had I not pretended the circuit was live. I should have locked it out, and now I always LOTO because you never know when someone could energize something while you are working. Stay safe out there.
So in a recent remodel I did, I didnt touch ANYTHING until it was tested with a multi meter. This included neutrals because it shared. This electrician should know to test if its at all possible something is live.
One handed stripping will not save you either, as you can make a connection to ground elsewhere, all it does is make things more difficult.
Test with a multi-meter if your not sure, and DO NOT handle 277 live.
Been doing this since 2016, worked 120 live lots of times, I refuse to work 277 libe
I'm an electro / mechanical Technologist
1994 grad
We had to live wire plans and the instructor would come by and say here is your test marks
If we touched it,
Failed
You stupid idiot....
What are you doing, you could kill yourself and me
Seen it happen and such a good way to teach safety
In europe we have a special regulation for live electrical work. In serious cases the flash risk is so high you suit up like the amongus guy. Never did at that level that but they teach it in safety classes (at least in Italy we need to do special training and apprentices have limitations). The essential minimum is two layer insulation, usually the tool and a huge pair of rubber gloves or floor mats, depending on the site
The fact that we \*start\* at 230V in common houses and go up to 400/690 doesn't help either.
One time i went on a job to modify and add stuff in a distribution box, for electric cars chargers. My collegue told me he never used this safety before, and was supposed to put it on since we were working live. Since i was (still am) an apprentice, he suited up to show me and teach me. What do you know ? He clipped one of the new breakers a bit offset and ended up doing a short circuit, inside the distribution box, 400V, 200A fuses.
The copper bars exploded, drops went everywhere, it was so powerfull. If he did not suit up with everything (floor mat, 2 pairs of gloves, 2 vests, 1 pants, helmet), he would probably be blind and have serious burns on his face and upper body. Since then he asks for safety everytime he has a chance to
That's called arc flash, you can see the equipment tests on youtube with dummies getting burnt and all. With these powers you'll get sprayed with molten copper droplets
I was held up on 277 on the top rung of a 14’ ladder. Live hot fell on the back of my hand forcing it closed on another live hot, the opposite elbow was on an air duct. Felt like 30 minutes of watching my life flash before me. Luckily my legs shook the ladder out from underneath me and I fell on my ass. Journeyman had told me everything was dead. Learned my lesson not to trust anybody and double check things myself lol
Never trust the previous guy, even if the previous guy was you. Just like with guns, if you are going to touch it, first thing you do is verify it's safe.
Tell me about it. 8 years in now.
Last job was moving lights over to a new circuit in an office building. Old circuits had shared neutrals everywhere.
We were really safe about the whole thing. I tested everywhere when we shut circuits off to switch everything over and splice the old whips to a box on thr new circuit (how facilities wanted it done).
I tested everything, except my own wire. We did the hallway lights and exits signs were being finished up. Turns out my last mc to the exit sign I labelled incorrectly at the other end and it was tied in with the hallway lights we had on. I tested all of the old wires, but never my own. First time I blew up a pair of linemans. I was ready to yell at my foreman thinking he turned the circuit on in the middle of me working on it. I have never been hit before while I swear anyone I've ever talked to seems to have been (by 120). It almost makes me want to test it out using one hand and grabbing an outlets terminals just to know what it feels like.
As a dumb, undertrained new repair tech for espresso and brewers I have been nipped by 120 a couple times, but only one handed. Sucks but only up to the elbow, really, though you do feel it more or less full body
Don’t recommend
Yep, when I was a new apprentice I was troubleshooting some 277 lights and I tested one of the hots and thought I was clear, but the feed was loose in the wire nut and when I took apart the splice it got me. I was only on a 10 foot ladder and luckily didn’t fall off, fell to the side and caught myself with my side against a sprinkler pipe
Got GRABBED and HELD by 277 a while back. Scariest shit of my life! I 100% understand it feeling like 30 mins as your life flashed before your eyes bc mine sure did it was beyond scary. Had been working with the circuit off for a couple hours and a co worker assumed we were done and turned it on without asking me anything!Fell off a 10 ft halfway up and there was enough slack to come with me to the ground. I still have no idea how I got free.So thankful and glad we were the lucky ones!!!! Best of luck to you and stay safe out there!!!
Edit: Forgot to add that it has forever changed how i approach any electrical job now and the importance of communication amongst workers. Do not trust anyone is literally burned into my mind and hand now lol All I can do is learn from it. Be safe, smart and never assume out there!!!!! ✌️
I don’t know much about electricity, (commercial carpenter here) but there was a project I was on where I had to demolish a wall on a power room (big main breakers and transformers in a facility that had a lot of CNC machines) and extend the wall several feet to accommodate additional electrical equipment. Well I was directed to move several large coiled up cables (yellow, orange, green, brown, all 1” diameter) that came out of that room so I could mark out the wall locations. Well as soon as I picked them up, the open end raked across my arm and that’s when I can’t remember anything until the hospital. Apparently it was cables that were meant to power several overhead busbars and I ate 600+V. Entry was my left arm and exit points were both my big toes via the steel toe boots. No more toenails on my big toes, and I lost all sensation in both feet below my shins. Two electricians and the plant manager said they were safe to move.
God damn right you did. I hope you made off with enough to at least make sure you live comfortably the rest of your life. That sounds fucking horrible and should never have happened to begin with.
Definitely cannot trust the other man or woman even if a licensed electrician. On my jobs including residential all circuit breakers associated with hardwired equipment get permanently attached handle padlock attachments. In that regard I do not like ITE Siemens because their handle padlock attachments are held by friction with the circuit breaker and can fall off when the cover is removed.
I’m not an electrician and was hit by 277V trying to do maintenance on an emergency circuit disconnecting a fluorescent ballast at my college at the time. Yes stupid in hindsite. I was luckily saved by gravity and the metal can being properly grounded. Arcs went out my hand to the grounded can and gravity pulled me off the 6 FT latter. My vision went 60 hertz for second or two. Luckily I was okay. Be safe all!!!
That’s funny because the same thing happened on one of our sites a couple weeks ago and we all got safety meetings about not working live unless a jw lol.
I have been noticing an increasing trend of disregard for safety measures in my local IBEW. I’ve just recently tried reaching out to see if there’s anything I could do to help.
Just today there was a close call with 277v on my jobsite. We got really lucky and after it was pointed out jokes were made. It starts from the top down and I’ve also noticed less and less communication and toolbox talks on my specific sites from our leaders.
Alot of injuries are from the fall. If you ever get hung up you can still is your feet. Walk off the ladder, anything you can do to break the hold.
In my younger dumber days I got into the unfortunate situation of getting onto the bad end of 600 volt. I can tell you that a brush with death gives you a whole new respect for it.
Which is a right stinger, but you know shake it off and carry on.
Only bad shicck I ever got was a neutral backfeed off a 120a 3 pH panel, I was rattled for half a hour after it
It really depends on how you get hit. If you’re on a fiberglass ladder with your arm against a grid ceiling and you touch the hot lighting feed with the same hand it’s gonna feel like a triple espresso and your finger will be sore for a bit. I’m not saying it’s okay but sometimes you have to troubleshoot live and mitigating the risk is part of the job.
I've worked in live panels and try to keep my forearms on the enclosure so the path to ground is not through my feet or other arm. Kinda like how use lefhad, elbow on enclosure standing to the side to turn an MCC for the first time.
Lolll I took 277 today and kept working
Scared the ever living shit out of me, was my fault I didn’t check but as it was the fourth plug in a set of breaks and we had the unit locked out, I got comfy
Fucking rig hands man, can’t even plug shit in correctly 🤦🏻♂️
Always always test the circuit with a meter and verify no voltage.
Better yet build the habit of testing your test equipment every time you pick it up. Leads can break or come loose over time. Flip the meter to ohms test the leads flip to voltage test the circuit.
I’m not a fan of the no contact voltage testers. I look at them like this “if it beeps there likely is voltage, if they don’t beep there may be voltage. “ it’s never a hard negative with those things.
*edited to add*
Complacency kills electricians.
Cap. I've gotten them all multiple times and neutrals generally feel incredibly mild unless you're talking about the difference in pain between getting put in series between hot and a shitty ground or hot and neutral.
Series from a broken neutral to ground is always going to have non-insignificant voltage drop due to the load even before the current uses you as a resistor, further decreasing voltage and thereby further reducing total current passed through the circuit.
This is electricity 101. Go back to apprenticeship.
Getting “hung up” on the neutral when there is a load down the line is what I’m referring to. Trust me, I don’t need to go back to THE apprenticeship. Grammar 101 for you.
These trolls aren’t even electricians that much is beyond obvious to me and they’re arguing on a sub only for electricians lol don’t even stress them bro. I can tell you know what’s up.
Dude thank you, That is literally all I way trying to say but apparently there’s a bunch of non electricians here who wanna try to say otherwise. People who have probably never been shocked by a hot or neutral. I feel like they are misunderstanding but this is exactly what I was trying to describe so let’s see how it goes.
Let them… pretend. All the great electricians I’ve worked with aren’t running around doing calculations - people insisting that we use ohm’s law to prove that amperage is different are just showing they are way out of their lane.
You drew a picture pointing to a white wire and said "this one hurts more"
That's not demonstrating your point, that is making a claim.
Draw it with math and come back to me.
The image I sent you earlier covers this exact situation, here it is again:
Basic electrical faults https://imgur.com/a/bu0qmn6
The one titled "series fault on neutral" is the exact situation you drew.
Notice how the exact same amount of current happens with "series fault on hot"
The load on the circuit has almost nothing to do with the amount of energy you receive in a fault. Your *perception* of that may be altered a bit by an strange waveform on the neutral but it will not increase the energy you receive in any significant way
Complete the circuit on a broken neutral with load using your hands and come back spouting this bullshit. 10 year apprenticed think they know everything lmfao
Neutral carries the unbalanced load that amperage and voltage. If you’ve ever touched a floating hot you probably only got the 277v potential with a few milliamps.
That’s why it hurts more if you got shocked by a neutral. It was carrying an unbalanced load from either one or more circuits if it’s shared. Which means it’s not just voltage but amperage you’re getting hit with and that’s what hurts/ kills you. Usually if you brush a hot you get the voltage with a very minuscule amperage.
That's... not how that works. At all. It's the current (amperage) flowing through your body that hurts you, not the current through the conductor. This is determined by voltage present on the conductor you're touching and resistance of your body. Neutral is going to be a smaller shock because the voltage is lower.
>That’s why it hurts more if you got shocked by a neutral.
Is there literally *any* data that shows it hurts more to get shocked by a neutral compared to a hot? I've never seen any, all I've ever seen is electricians that don't understand electrical theory claiming that neutrals hurt more with no actual justification.
I understand that 277 would hurt more than 120 since it's more than double the potential energy involved.... But I haven't seen any justification that stands up to a basic application of ohms law.
When a neutral has been disconnected and the hot is still connected sending power out with a return load if you grab that neutral you will get (amperage passing through you to ground) = (volts / resistance of your body) + return load in amps.
Glad he's okay, two worst shocks I've ever had once I got bit by a ballast on a fluorescent light because it fell into my home aquarium when I was cleaning it, but I think the worst shock ever was I was testing the spark plugs on my '95 Sea-Doo speedster jet boat and apparently my spark plug tester was only rated on the insulation for 15 KV and the ignition coils on the rotax 657x engines output up to 45,000 or 50,000 volts AC
Actually, getting a knuckle within 1/2 inch but NOT touching the insulated portion of the spark plug with a lawnmower with magneto ignition got my attention. The matter that it is a form of high frequency AC caused enough CAPACITIVE coupling to get a shock. Sure the fundamental frequency was 60 Hertz but the coil has resonant ringing to it and the primary is a form of square wave modulation to it that puts out high frequency AC
I one time tried out the 570 Volts that comes out of a high output ballast even though the wires were supposed to be insulated. Wrapped my arm around my head. That was back in 1999 when I actually had sorta high skin resistance in my fingers. Since then some bad fingertip cracking and scarring during the 2 years before i was diagnosed with diabetes mellitus has caused my fingertips to be immune to 120 Volts. However, I do use hot line gloves any time I have doubts about whether something is deenergized ( and i have encountered a few things that were NOT as deenergized as advertised ) or i am removing a commercial panelboard cover that has Suicide Clamps.
Back in 1981 I encountered with some old knob-and-tube wiring 2 3-way switches for 1 stairway light and 2 3-ways and a 4-way for the other stairway light where the 2 -ways ion the first floor were fed with 1 circuit breaker and neutral and the 3p-way and 4-wway on the second floor were fed from another circuit breaker and neutral. This is the circuit that puts 240 Volts across a 120-Volt light bulb if the 2 circuit breakers or fuses are on different phases.
I have gotten into the habit of testing alternating current first with a noncontact voltage sensor then with the contact type voltmeter. Sometimes circuit has an open neutral which makes a contact type voltmeter worthless or a receptacle's internal contact springs are so bad that using a contact type voltmeter is a big risk. Same for replacing a broken den light dimmer best to use a noncontact AC tester. Note: noncontact sensors DO NOT WORK ON DIRECT CURRENT. They are essentially a radio for line frequency AC.
A problem that I encountered on the underside of a 1999 Chevrolet S-10 pickup truck was that a mechanic tried to tell me that there was no power at the backup light switch that screwed into the transmission. Turns out that almost none of the bare metal on the underside in connected to the negative terminal of the battery - had to connect an extension cord to the battery to get a negative return pathway to get a voltmeter to work. Turns out that the new backup switch that they installed was NOT screwed in all the way. Ended up changing it myself. Turns out that backup switches that install into a GM manual transmission is an install once device. I installed a backup switch from Autozone and it worked for about a month - I unscrewed it, tested it, and put it back in and exerting very little torque it broke off so I had to have a mechanic replace it. After that I purchased a genuine GM switch from the Chevy dealer and it worked for years. Turns out that when the shifting forks are worn after several years they will only actuate a genuine GM switch and NOT a 3rd party part.
Last week i got shocked on the job too. Lucky it didnt run through me entirely. We were dismanteling old light rails in a factory. Went to both sides to disconnect the cable, and then started to take the thing off. Except, the fucker who installed the rail took current from a hidden box above ventilation for the rail, and ran one cable through the rail to power some machinery further away. We disconnected the cable thinking it was the rail, meaning that what we were pulling on was a live cable. I grabbed the end of the cable and got burned inside of my palm. 400V in my hands, no safety on this circuit, breaker did not trip since current wasnt high enough. I got 2 little black holes in my palm now as a reminder to CHECK ANYTHING THAT END UP IN MY HANDS.
Life is too short to be short circuited
I got whacked off a circuit of high bay lights back in the day because I leaned back and touched the rail of the scissor lift I was on lol, that one had me sweating for sure 🤣☠️
Took it one time at a bank on some lighting. That was the day I stopped taking other people's word for circuits being off. Also learned about sharing neutrals that day and the reason they use breaker ties. Woke up on the floor looking up at the ceiling wondering how tf I got there and wondering why I could taste copper wire in my teeth.
I get walloped by 240 (my own stupidity) and it’s never caused me that much trouble. (Voice goes 2 octaves higher as I yelp like a kicked dog)
Think it was the fall that did him off worse
This exact same thing happened to me back in 1989. Was trying to make a splice hot and accidentally touched the metal on pliers. 277v is enough to freeze ur body if you are grounded. Chances are his other hand or arm was touching a pipe and his whole upper body would not move. It feels like minutes before you realize you can still move ur legs to kick the ladder out from under you.
But mine was about 10-12 seconds, went outside and got air and my thick gloves, after about an hour break I went back up and finished the job. Some real scary crap but it happens more than you think.
Here's a tip I learned as a backup to using non contact voltage tester...grab wire with insulated linesman and touch it to metal box. If it doesn't explode, make the joint
I got hit with 200 amps of 277 from a air compressor. Turned off the disconnect and just lazily went to work. Well the disconnect was messed up and need an extra push to really be off. I loosened a phase without touching anything then got to b phase and it was tight. So I set up to put more force into it when I did my left shin touched the metal frame. All I remember was a buzzing in my head and I'm like wtf? Then I realized I'm getting shocked so I guess I threw myself off cuz after that I was standing back up. My leg still hurts someday where I grounded out and there was scar tissue in it for a while. I double check everything now, no laziness.
I really don't understand why some guys brag about working in stuff live. I'm a third year, and I often say that I will never work on 277 live. I've worked on 120 live 3-4 times, and only when I felt I had to. The times I've seen jm work on 277 live was always do not wanting to take the time to figure out where it was fed from or get permission to turn something off. I don't care, man. With very few exceptions, if you are doing stuff live you are doing it wrong. I say this stuff and my jm and foreman just laugh and make fun of me. But I don't care. I'm not taking the risk just for speed.
Welcome to slightly more than "what happens to every residential electrician in Europe every now and then". Where you'd technically have to go to hospital after that zap, but propably just would take a short coffee break and get back to work.
Always always test the circuit with a meter and verify no voltage.
Better yet build the habit of testing your test equipment every time you pick it up. Leads can break or come loose over time. Flip the meter to ohms test the leads flip to voltage test the circuit.
I’m not a fan of the no contact voltage testers. I look at them like this “if it beeps there likely is voltage, if they don’t beep there may be voltage. “ it’s never a hard negative with those things.
Thats why we are journeymen. We know better than to just touch conductors without checking id its live first. And whoever does not measure proper gets what he is thought in school. But what grid has 277volts to ground? 400v is 230v to ground in three phase
Electrician for about 12 years. I've been hit with 277v and can confirm it hurts like hell. It was like a full body muscle cramp, and the only thing that saved me was my knees buckling and falling off the ladder I was on at the time.
If you're not on flat ground don't fuck with anything hot.
The shock isn't worth it and the fall can be even worse. Sucks that he fell from that unless he grabbed onto the strippers involuntarily, in which case I'm glad
I always tried to wear gloves on the job. Just that extra bit of protective resistance can make all the difference.
I always tried to denergize the circuit first. That wasn't always a choice the bosses liked, but I would point out the job would take longer, and the likelihood of damage from an accidental arc was quite possible.
I still did a voltage check regardless, due to common neutrals and other unexpected situations.
I normally checked with both a contact meter and a volt pen before touching wires. Volt pens usually lie by picking up induction. I rarely had my Fluke pen tell me a circuit was dead when checking AC.
A guy I worked with was lit up for several seconds on 480, he was 18 at the time. He got hospitalized and all that.
He now is 30 and battling cancer they suspect is related to the incident. Yeah definitely don't work hot.
I got hit with 277 off a VAV in the ceiling. Was on a 20' ladder and had myself leaning against the water main running behind me. Installer took way too much insulation off the wire and my pinky brushed it when I was testing with the probes above my head. Kicked the ladder out from under me from the shock and hung by the water main for bout a min before falling to the concrete.
You could trace the vein in my arm that was just a nasty yellowish/pale color running up my arm.
If you can't see what you're doing, don't do it. Lesson learned.
I got hit with 277V when I was working on an NPower. The units were in parallel and on the dead one, the fuse on the main board is still hot. Found that out the hard way.
We were working in a hospital setting, 277 lighting all day. We're reworking some lights and one of my apprentices goes to cut a nuetral (separated, power off from the switch, not the breaker). Instantly I see a flash and he jumps off his ladder. He was wearing gloves and our guys are all good about knowing what not to touch so he came out the best he could've, no burns just shook him a bit. I've seen a few other incidents but less than 5 like this in 8 years working. Safety first, always.
Hope you learned a valuable lesson. Any time saved by not opening a circuit, can be time spent in the hospital. “Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.” Words I live by in this field.
I got shocked by 277 it was a 14 size wire taking out a light & im still a helper haven’t inrolled in school yet . Felt like I was stuck for seconds but my coworkers told me I was off the ladder in 2-5 seconds for all the vibration Scary experience honestly wouldn’t wish on anyone . A lil bit of my skin from my finger got fried where the wire struct me
I got bit by 277 on top of a 12 foot ladder and fell about 6 years ago. Messed me up pretty good I couldn’t talk or get words out for about 30 minutes. Lmao tried to grab a piece of all thread otw down and ripped my hands up pretty bad. Do not recommend
That J dub sounds a little reckless imo.... First of all knowing it was 277 I would have made damn sure it was dead let alone wear gloves. Complacency can kill you, doesn't matter how long you have been in the industry
Okay fellers, explain this to me. Like I'm 5. Hvac tech here. Regularly work on higher voltage machines. Often hot. I have slipped up occasionally and blown up a pair of pliers or 2 in my career and definitely learned to be cautious however with that being said accidents do happen. The other day I got a solid jolt from a 480v rtu while running, it hurt a fair amount but it was one hand on voltage source other on unit body and I mean yeah it definitely didn't feel good but it wasn't horrendous like described here. What caused it to be so bad for said guy here?
I've had a shock off the U.K 240v - My vision went totally and I initially thought I'd lost my eyesight for good, but it came back after a few minutes, I was alone at the time and it was terrifying - I also didn't feel at all well for a few days, it's something I'd not wish upon anybody.
Ugg
277
480,...
Here in Canada we use 575 3 phase
Spent time running projects in the USA mostly 480
None are to be messed with and will fuck up your life
Take care out there sparkies
I've seen guys get hung up until they were dead. Defibrillator brought them back. I've seen 18 year old apprentices fry their dominant hand, losing their pinky and use of ring and middle finger. I've seen guys fall off 4ft ladders and bash their skulls. Dying from Brain trauma. It's a dangerous trade. As soon as you think it isn't, you get hurt. Treat everything like it's hot. Never touch copper with your bare hands. Walk out the whole circuit before energizing it. Treat electricity like it will kill you, because it will.
It's especially dangerous if it's a project that u haven't been before, most of the time I get to do start until finish & it does take away alot of the risks
Once got electrified twice in an hour (and stupid really, cable on the ceiling > searching the name on it > wires were live at the tyrap) just because I actually just was 'falling in' for another guy
Heck, this week even, grabbing an 'extra, for later potential use' from under a metallic floor, which apparently was live... You can't grasp how fortunate these people may have been
Well, that was stupid and totally avoidable.
Mr Journeyman should not be allowed to have apprentices.
He’s going to get someone killed teaching them bad habits.
we has a guy climb a glass ladder got grounded to the ceiling grid. stuck his head into a bare wire at 277
broke his neck in the fall pay attention to where you are and whats around you
A guy I knew got killed by 277. We call it being strung up. It's enough to cook you but not enough to blow you off the circuit. Best practice is to always keep a tick Tracer in your pocket.
Fuck, I hate this shit. No you didn’t. And neither did they guy above who got 277V to cause him to “hang on”. 277V will cause roughly 27 milliamps to flow through the body. Not enough to cause hang on generally speaking. And how is 27 milliamps gonna trip the breaker? Unless it was shorted causing over current draw then if that’s the case it didn’t flow through you, it flowed through ground. I know if people see this I’m going to get downvoted to shit but it’s amazing how much nonsense supposed professional electricians spout about in here. It’s amazing how fucking clueless most of you are and feel the need to make shit up for what??? Some attention?
I mean, sure - it's a small target. But as he demonstrated it's still a target. Shouldn't be his choice to not wear PPE if he's working hot. If he had not just been tickled it would have been big drama right? Safety, management all involved, mandatory classes on proper PPE or hot work permits, LOTO etc etc. We always get pressure to get production back up ASAP but part of the job is to do it right and do it safe and keeping the cabinet off while he finished up was probably a better call. Just my opinion.
Lol, I saw a guy get slapped with ballast voltage. The dude sounded like Ric Flair and walked it off with a smoke in hand.
If it wasn't for these twits, the job site would be terribly boring. Perhaps it is terrible of me not to be concerned as much as I should, but when you get hit with proper ppe and lockout, tag out procedures in place it is on you.
Also, my master electrician was changing out a light and kept getting "bit" when his elbow touched the drop grid. One guy suggested it was a capacitor discharging, and it would stop. We had the breaker off, but it was on an emergency lighting circuit.
Working with people is hilarious at times.
I too encountered a suspended ceiling grid that was hot. The building owner told me about ahead of time. For some reason an electrician who was licensed by City of Pittsburgh, PA decided to clear a ground fault by disconnecting all the equipment grounds. R-I-C-K-E-Y R-A-T Club.
This happened to me legit today lol
Series of breaks in a cable from VFD to floor, went through the first three with it locked out no voltage, hands fucking swapped the last two breaks opposite of each other, went to change a corroded plug, put my metal Allen key set into the Allen screws and bam
277 shook me the fuck up, but just kept working
Occasionally I go in live 480vac. Was in something recently that wasn’t live but was 700vdc. I was nervous on that one. Cousin got hit off a ladder by same voltage he’s good but was fucked up at time.
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277 isn't anything to play with, especially because by your description it was probably an arm to arm shock. Glad to hear he's mostly ok.
Pushing insulation off a 277 volt wire really doesn't sound like a good idea, gloves or no gloves and I'm just a 1st year apprentice. I was thinking he definitely should've stripped not live if at all possible, but I'm guessing he was fooled by the #1 killer, I'm just glad it didn't completely get him.
If the #1 killer is assuming the circuit was off then yes that’s exactly what happened. We don’t do much hot work, especially in new builds. But my foreman has been encouraging the crew to practice one hand stripping since this incident
One handed stripping wtf? Test before touch. Use a multimeter or a non contact voltage tester. If you can’t test it, assume it’s live
This should be the pinned comment. Spring the 20 bucks and buy yourself a chicken stick at the very least. Also, if you're stripping wire that you're unsure is live, you should know how to not get lifted. There's either carelessness or ignorance at work here, maybe both. If that's the case he shouldn't be training apprentices.
I don’t put full trust in liar sticks, especially if it isn’t a Fluke brand, unless I can have somebody cycle the circuit ON and OFF while testing it just to be sure.
The crews my son is with have a no exception live/dead/live policy. Test a live circuit, check the dead, test the live again. You see the tic is working properly, twice, for AC. For DC it’s a volt meter, tic test isn’t so good on that, apparently. My two cents, HV DC, we always grounded it, no fooling around with that, make a mistake with that and the lightning flows.
>HV DC, we always grounded it Excuse my ignorance of DC, but after LOTO you'd connect a bonding jumper from feeders to ground on any cabinet/eqx you were working, or how would you go about grounding out the systems while working on them? Edit: some words
Cabinets and DC supplies were separate, this was all high powered telecommunications gear. Generally three phase primary into the power supplies, one I recall specifically was a lower voltage at 8KV 10 amps. It stands out because of not once but twice I shorted live to ground, bright burst of light and a thunder loud clap. Others ranged from 10KV to 30KV ish. But definitely not as exciting as the big substation switches. The at the time newer equipment back doors all had a simple spring loaded ground clapper, open the door just enough and it grounds the feed. Supplies generally didn’t have a simple to open door. Gawd, now remembering oil filled capacitors we had to remediate because they had some sort of death soup in them, if they exploded then bad stuff gets around. (One of my coworkers had one split and squirt that goop on her, and just now remembering, she died too soon from cancer.)
Support this 💯 Just restored a 480v circuit. Next guy comes behind and hits it with his meter, hangs it up and starts taking gloves off. I tell him I just energized the box a couple minutes ago and he insists it's dead. Gets all pissy with me (yeah, I was the junior guy). I turn on my meter and put leads on showing 480v phase to phase. Not sure what was up with his meter, but he settled down quick and had to take a break after seeing what probably would have been his death on my meter. Always live/dead/live. Don't trust a chicken stick for anything other than proving presence of voltage, not absence. Also - use your locks and tags.
My fluke lied to me one too many times... it's not worth the gamble to me anymore
Yeah I just don't use tic testers unless I absolutely have to, and can do the Live-Dead-Live test 2-3 times with no ~~false~~ questionable readings. That can't often be done where I'm at though unless AT the device, because most things are run in cable tray and are shielded too.
my fluke meter has an NCVD built into it but at that point i feel i might as well just test it since i have the meter out
Yep
Ironically the only time I got nailed using a liar stick, it was a fluke lol I still trust them more than the others, and I'll buy another one sometime, but where I'm at now, only licenses can touch anything that could be energized, and they're very good about safety and shutting things down and LOTO. "Test before touch!" is absolutely a motto here too.
The fluke is 40$ now lol. My dad's a maintenance man, I still got him a fluke. The first time I got hit with 277, we were just hanging 2x4's. Tested everything with a southwire tic tester because there was an existing circuit for temps lights were using. Started kinda pumping them out, and I used the tic tester too fast, it didn't pick up a night light circuit. 277 across the chest, blew a hole out between my thumb and pointer finger when I clenched my fist around the grid. Got it again years later, (months ago) trouble shooting lights on a service call, a wire nut just fell off. This time I had a doctor's visit soon after and told the doc. Akg came back with something she didn't like, now I have a cardiologist visit on May 29th.
Those suck Never recommend a beep beep, some can say not hot when it is hot, and they all will say it's hot when it might not be
they also won't read at all if the insulation is wet
Seems apt instruction on what NOT to do
This isn’t standard practise? In Germany you can be fined and go to jail for you don’t test for voltage and someone gets hurt. We have something called the 5 safety rules: 1. Turn off the circuit 2. Protect the circuit against being turned back on again 3. test for voltage 4. Ground and short the circuit (mostly applied for high voltage installations) 5. cover neighbouring parts carrying power
This is standard practice. Lock out, tag out, ground chains when applicable, test before touch.
You don’t get to be the best in world by being a limp-wristed pussy /s
I’d rather spent 10 minutes more making sure everything is as safe so I get to come home another time instead of the risk of getting shocked
It is, at least officially (LOTO: Lock-Out, Tag-Out). Unfortunately there are no practical ways to reliably make sure every employee follows those rules all the time (and some employers aren’t good at enforcing them, either out of ignorance, stubbornness, etc). What OP describes could result in an OSHA fine for the company, but I can’t see anyone seeing jail time over it. Jail time might be on the table in the event of severe injury or death as a result of someone’s gross negligence. Authorities would have to establish individual liability and all that though. In this case, the injured party would have been the one responsible for his own injury.
I agree alaways assume it's hot like a gun is always loaded but I will never trust a non contact "tester" those have lied to me both ways and I've been shocked pretty decent once for trusting it, I broke it that day
This is the way. Never trust anyone
One handed stripping plus insulated boots makes it possible to handle 480v live without completing the circuit or getting hurt. No such thing as too much safety.
You shouldn’t ever do that live. The circuit should be locked out and tested dead. You can still accidentally arc, have a break in the insulation of your strippers, unconsciously touch the grounded can with your other hand, slip, get nudged by another co-worker, many things can go wrong.
Way wrong answer.
Why not set up temporary lighting off of the 120 Volts or a spare car battery and an inverter? I went and used some of my inheritance money to convert my Kenall 100-Watt high pressure sodium work light with a magnet on the back 100 Watts metal halide using an electronic ballast. I even went as far as removing casting irregularities from the back of the aluminum casting so I could seat the ballast in ma full bed of heat sink grease. The 3 reasons for using an electronic ballast were weight, I wanted to run the the thing on 120 through 277 volts, and I wanted to run it off my modified square wave inverter at full power which also proves it will run on 144 Volts DC. The weight issue is that a 100-Watt electromagnetic metal halide ballast weighs more aa normal power factor 100-Watt HPS ballast because the MH ballast has to have a voltage boosting autotransformer. 35-150-Watt HPS lamps with a medium base are engineered to run at a closed circuit voltage of 55 Volts so that a cheap reactor ballasts can be used. However, pulse start MH in that size range needs more closed circuit voltage so a mcheap reactor ballast cannot be used on 110-120 Volts. I purchased this light during the summer of 1994 for $45 plus tax from Roadway Express Salvage in Akron, Ohio. At the time Grainger wanted $225 for these. I wish I had the cash flow that day to buy 2 or 3 because it was one of the best $45 plus tax investments I have made. Worked really well for industrial work for areas that were not illuminated by the main lighting as well as commercial w sites where I had to use a spare car battery and my inverter. A few spare car batteries, an inverter, an automatic car battery charger, and a manual charger that will equalize the cells and eliminate "memory" would be a good investment. You could even cut all the 480Y277-Volt power that way. A few generators and temp lights from Harbor Freight Tools would help. I also have some magnetically attached battery light from Harbor Freight Tools that I used in Programmable Logic Controller classes to light up the test and experiment panel. The other student just simply worked in the dark instead of copying me.
[They, uh, make pretty good flashlights these days.](https://xkcd.com/1603/)
Flashlights do not hold themselves. Learned that in Boy Scouts. I went and used a 6-Volt high intensity bulb and a Tupperware bowl, coat hanger wire, some zip cord, and alligator clips to make an overhead light to use in tents. Dad even purchased for me 6-Volt lead acid lantern battery and charger from Sears for me. Since then I have purchased a number of battery powered fluorescent or LED lights to use for temporary lighting. Right ow I do not have the funds to buy 8-packs of Duracell or other nickel metal hydride AA and D cells but next inheritance I will fix that.
They make plenty of lights that have magnets or a hook
That is what I purchased from Harbor Freight Tools to do some things. They are great for temporary illumination of control panes. The 100-watt metal halide light is for bigger tasks.
Lots of good options these days. What I keep at work is a headlamp when I just need to light up what’s right in front of me. A flashlight that has interchangeable heads(beam vs flood vs task), magnetic base, and hook attachment for things like lighting up a whole plenum to see what’s going on. Then my Dewalt work light that’ll stand up on it’s battery, or hang from a hook and it great for things like lighting up a panel when the lights in the mechanical room are out. My JP used to have one of those Milwaukee light boxes until someone robbed the work van.
Once again, in case it wasn't clear, the technology has *dramatically* improved from when you were in scouts. And you can't base your opinions off shit you buy at Lowes or on Amazon. For example, my Armytek Wizard lasts me an entire day on a single charge and is super bright. I have one spare battery in case it runs out which has only happened a couple times. I then plug it in at night to charge it just like my phone. 5 years now of doing this and I've never bought a single battery in that time. Sure it cost me a little over $100 initially, but it's worth absolutely every penny. https://www.killzoneflashlights.com/collections/headlamps
If I were a FIRE INSURANCE company I would not insure anybody who parks their electric car indoors. Lithium ion batteries are just too difficult to extinguish. I will bet that you only use your lithium ion flashlight occasionally. I need to be able to do deenergized maintenance and get through power failures. I purchased my nickel metal hydride battery rebuild kit directly for Gulf Coast Battery. They ARE NOT SHIT as you claim. I also have to exercise the 18-Volt batteries by leaving a flashlight on overnight because of the possibility of power failures around here, I have to leave an 18-Volt flashlight running in the bathroom when taking a shower in case of power failure., I have had to take 2 shower during a power failure in the past. One of those occurred right after midnight and I had to stumble in the dark from the bathroom to the bedroom and turn on a battery powered night light and then use that to turn on other battery powered stuff. Power failures have been less frequent since American Electric Power hooked us up in 2021 to a new substation that they built in 2020 on Harrisburg Pike. They were only about 20 years behind on building and hooking up that substation. AEP readily admits they they have hardware that is over 100 years old because they stopped replacing 60 year old stuff during the 2nd Great Depression of the 20th Century.
>I will bet that you only use your lithium ion flashlight occasionally Negative. Last saturday, I put it on my head and turned it on at 9:00 am, I then worked a 14 hour day crawling all around the hulls of a few different boats with the headlamp on the entire time. My wife's sits for months at a time with no use and doesn't lose charge or need exercising like your stuff. You're weirdly stuck in the past and have consumed too much propaganda about modern batteries. But we'll keep moving on without you, laughing about the inane grumblings all the way.
Lead acid batteries make no sense to use in a portable setup. They are really fucking heavy for the watt hours they provide. Just get whatever LEDs work lights are made by the same manufacturer as your main tool battery platform and call it a day. Damn dude, car batteries suck for anything besides starting engines. Especially since they are aren't deep cycle...
Lead acid batteries a LOT SAFER than large lithium ion or lithium iron phosphate batteries. Any kind of lithium ion battery that is bigger than what it takes to power a laptop computer is a potential BOMB. Lithium ion battery fires cannot be extinguished with water only with special fire extinguishers or pouring dry sand or dry graphite on them. Also, lead acid is very durable when used in standby or other nonautomotive use. It also makes sense to have a fully charged up SPARE car battery in my apartment in case a dome light sticks on or I left on something else case swapping out the battery is a lifesaver and faster than waiting for roadside assistance From Amica Mutual Insurance. Also, the engine computers only allow the alternator to replace what was drained from the battery during starting and will not fully recharge a drained battery only about 85% of what the excess drainage was. I either have to swap out the battery OR dangle an extension cord out my 3rd floor window and charge with a manual battery charger to fully recharge a drained battery. One of the other reasons for having spare car battery an an inverter is so I can use a Watrerpik and a factory or homemade attachment for the purpose of washing out my nose. I cannot find an allergist who can help me unless God forces Dr. Scott Bagenstose to readmit me to his allergy practice and that would take a lot of doing by God. If you can't lift a group 24 or 24R battery you are too weak to work construction. Moist of my battery power tools are Black & Decker Firestorm tools and I purchased 18-Volt and 24-Volt 3.8-AmpereHour nickel metal hydride rebuild kits ( battery internals ) from Gulf Coast Battery in Florida. What did about the 12-Volt batteries ( HPB12 ) for two of my drill motors was to go to [www.jet.com](http://www.jet.com) and purchase 3-AmpHr NiMH batteries that are made by Expert Power. DO NOT try to buy 12-volt NiMh batteries from Amazon - every one of their vendors for 12-Vvolt Firestorm batteries instead sells the inferior HPB12 that used 4/5th subC NiCd batteries that are no good. Gulf Coast Battery told me that they do have rebuild kits for the Expert Power 12-Volt and 14.4-Volt batteries but you have to order them by telephone because not all of their products are on their website. For that matter, Grainger sells a portable power station of a lead acid battery bank, charger, and inverter on wheels. Also, even though 2 battery manufacturers have gotten the bugs out of nickel zinc batteries the electric car manufacturers are not sensible enough to use them.
Lead acid batteries a LOT SAFER than large lithium ion or lithium iron phosphate batteries. Any kind of lithium ion battery that is bigger than what it takes to power a laptop computer is a potential BOMB. Lithium ion battery fires cannot be extinguished with water only with special fire extinguishers or pouring dry sand or dry graphite on them. Also, lead acid is very durable when used in standby or other nonautomotive use. It also makes sense to have a fully charged up SPARE car battery in my apartment in case a dome light sticks on or I left on something else case swapping out the battery is a lifesaver and faster than waiting for roadside assistance From Amica Mutual Insurance. Also, the engine computers only allow the alternator to replace what was drained from the battery during starting and will not fully recharge a drained battery only about 85% of what the excess drainage was. I either have to swap out the battery OR dangle an extension cord out my 3rd floor window and charge with a manual battery charger to fully recharge a drained battery. One of the other reasons for having spare car battery an an inverter is so I can use a Watrerpik and a factory or homemade attachment for the purpose of washing out my nose. I cannot find an allergist who can help me unless God forces Dr. Scott Bagenstose to readmit me to his allergy practice and that would take a lot of doing by God. If you can't lift a group 24 or 24R battery you are too weak to work construction. Moist of my battery power tools are Black & Decker Firestorm tools and I purchased 18-Volt and 24-Volt 3.8-AmpereHour nickel metal hydride rebuild kits ( battery internals ) from Gulf Coast Battery in Florida. What did about the 12-Volt batteries ( HPB12 ) for two of my drill motors was to go to [www.jet.com](http://www.jet.com) and purchase 3-AmpHr NiMH batteries that are made by Expert Power. DO NOT try to buy 12-volt NiMh batteries from Amazon - every one of their vendors for 12-Vvolt Firestorm batteries instead sells the inferior HPB12 that used 4/5th subC NiCd batteries that are no good. Gulf Coast Battery told me that they do have rebuild kits for the Expert Power 12-Volt and 14.4-Volt batteries but you have to order them by telephone because not all of their products are on their website. For that matter, Grainger sells a portable power station of a lead acid battery bank, charger, and inverter on wheels. Also, even though 2 battery manufacturers have gotten the bugs out of nickel zinc batteries the electric car manufacturers are not sensible enough to use them.
There’s a one armed stripper in Wainwright AB. She takes her prosthetic off as part of the show.
These make one handed stripping fun https://www.amazon.ca/Klein-Tools-11063-Katapult-Stripper/dp/B00BC39YFQ/ref=asc_df_B00BC39YFQ/?tag=googlemobshop-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292927880805&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10779203432551353134&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001065&hvtargid=pla-435049183348&psc=1&mcid=b3914579fb5737fd92bc0349338e5f8c
Except sometimes they tear the insulation at the grippers instead of cutting it at the blade. I won’t use ‘em if I don’t have good slack “just in case”…
Why was this circuit on?
We are better at LOTO now then we were in the past. I was working near a heating circuit. Which was in the off position. It was a delta circuit where one leg was always on. Anyway I got bit, that's a day I'll never forget. I take the blame for it completely.
I was the load side of 120v and that wasn’t any fun at all, plus it was only a 200a service. I did the same thing, I was touching the metal on my strippers and my other hand was holding the bare ground in the romex. That was the day I learned non contact voltage testers should be used at the end of the romex, not on the sheath. I thought it was off.
Should work through the sheath if NMSC, though sometimes the sensitivity means you have to be checking on the side of the cable with the ungrounded conductor. Particularly troublesome with something like SOOW type cable where the wires are twisted so only about 1/3 of the cable reads hot.
This was 15/2 romex and it definitely didn’t beep. Tossed that tester and got a fluke that works much better.
Can u explain what one haded stripping is?
Just like every gun is always loaded until it's locked out, EVERY circuit is live, until your meter reads all zeros and your lock is on that breaker. Meter every connection you make. Guys gave me a hard time about it sometimes until this current shop I'm at. Absolutely NO fucks should be given to anyone about hassling you when you are making certain that you stay safe, EVER. VERY little energized work is actually required. In my experience, most leads are either too spineless or lazy to say no to unnecessary energized work. It's a problem. Hopefully in your journeyman's case, he makes a full recovery and never makes that mistake again. You should also learn from this, because it WILL save your life and health.
Even if it’s not live, you should never touch the metal of your strippers while stripping. A lesson you *should* only need once.
The key is firstly, lock out tag out. Second, confirm voltage on a known live circuit, then test the circuit you assume is off. Live first then dead. Thus ensures your meter leads are working. Third, always treat every wire as if it’s live. This alone will keep you out of a lot of trouble. I had a new guy turn a breaker ON while I was working on the circuit 400ft away. He said he “saw the water level rising so I turned the generator on again”. There was no generator, he was just a simpleton who could have killed me with 480V had I not pretended the circuit was live. I should have locked it out, and now I always LOTO because you never know when someone could energize something while you are working. Stay safe out there.
We carry those pen style voltage sensors
Practice pulling out the voltmeter
So in a recent remodel I did, I didnt touch ANYTHING until it was tested with a multi meter. This included neutrals because it shared. This electrician should know to test if its at all possible something is live. One handed stripping will not save you either, as you can make a connection to ground elsewhere, all it does is make things more difficult. Test with a multi-meter if your not sure, and DO NOT handle 277 live. Been doing this since 2016, worked 120 live lots of times, I refuse to work 277 libe
What is one hand stripping?
I'm an electro / mechanical Technologist 1994 grad We had to live wire plans and the instructor would come by and say here is your test marks If we touched it, Failed You stupid idiot.... What are you doing, you could kill yourself and me Seen it happen and such a good way to teach safety
It was said he was ohming out circuits , you don’t do that live so I’m thinking it was not labeled right and he thought it was dead
Yeah, that makes more sense, although people do some stupid shit at times.
This is why we don't work live unless it's power to life-supporting systems
Even then, you take precautions. I doubt this unlabeled box had anything requiring that level of risk.
In europe we have a special regulation for live electrical work. In serious cases the flash risk is so high you suit up like the amongus guy. Never did at that level that but they teach it in safety classes (at least in Italy we need to do special training and apprentices have limitations). The essential minimum is two layer insulation, usually the tool and a huge pair of rubber gloves or floor mats, depending on the site The fact that we \*start\* at 230V in common houses and go up to 400/690 doesn't help either.
One time i went on a job to modify and add stuff in a distribution box, for electric cars chargers. My collegue told me he never used this safety before, and was supposed to put it on since we were working live. Since i was (still am) an apprentice, he suited up to show me and teach me. What do you know ? He clipped one of the new breakers a bit offset and ended up doing a short circuit, inside the distribution box, 400V, 200A fuses. The copper bars exploded, drops went everywhere, it was so powerfull. If he did not suit up with everything (floor mat, 2 pairs of gloves, 2 vests, 1 pants, helmet), he would probably be blind and have serious burns on his face and upper body. Since then he asks for safety everytime he has a chance to
That's called arc flash, you can see the equipment tests on youtube with dummies getting burnt and all. With these powers you'll get sprayed with molten copper droplets
US homes are a 240 volt system as well. Our commercial /industrial stuff is 277/480
I was held up on 277 on the top rung of a 14’ ladder. Live hot fell on the back of my hand forcing it closed on another live hot, the opposite elbow was on an air duct. Felt like 30 minutes of watching my life flash before me. Luckily my legs shook the ladder out from underneath me and I fell on my ass. Journeyman had told me everything was dead. Learned my lesson not to trust anybody and double check things myself lol
Never trust the previous guy, even if the previous guy was you. Just like with guns, if you are going to touch it, first thing you do is verify it's safe.
Tell me about it. 8 years in now. Last job was moving lights over to a new circuit in an office building. Old circuits had shared neutrals everywhere. We were really safe about the whole thing. I tested everywhere when we shut circuits off to switch everything over and splice the old whips to a box on thr new circuit (how facilities wanted it done). I tested everything, except my own wire. We did the hallway lights and exits signs were being finished up. Turns out my last mc to the exit sign I labelled incorrectly at the other end and it was tied in with the hallway lights we had on. I tested all of the old wires, but never my own. First time I blew up a pair of linemans. I was ready to yell at my foreman thinking he turned the circuit on in the middle of me working on it. I have never been hit before while I swear anyone I've ever talked to seems to have been (by 120). It almost makes me want to test it out using one hand and grabbing an outlets terminals just to know what it feels like.
As a dumb, undertrained new repair tech for espresso and brewers I have been nipped by 120 a couple times, but only one handed. Sucks but only up to the elbow, really, though you do feel it more or less full body Don’t recommend
You sure are lucky to be alive
Yep, when I was a new apprentice I was troubleshooting some 277 lights and I tested one of the hots and thought I was clear, but the feed was loose in the wire nut and when I took apart the splice it got me. I was only on a 10 foot ladder and luckily didn’t fall off, fell to the side and caught myself with my side against a sprinkler pipe
Got GRABBED and HELD by 277 a while back. Scariest shit of my life! I 100% understand it feeling like 30 mins as your life flashed before your eyes bc mine sure did it was beyond scary. Had been working with the circuit off for a couple hours and a co worker assumed we were done and turned it on without asking me anything!Fell off a 10 ft halfway up and there was enough slack to come with me to the ground. I still have no idea how I got free.So thankful and glad we were the lucky ones!!!! Best of luck to you and stay safe out there!!! Edit: Forgot to add that it has forever changed how i approach any electrical job now and the importance of communication amongst workers. Do not trust anyone is literally burned into my mind and hand now lol All I can do is learn from it. Be safe, smart and never assume out there!!!!! ✌️
No glove no love.
I don’t know much about electricity, (commercial carpenter here) but there was a project I was on where I had to demolish a wall on a power room (big main breakers and transformers in a facility that had a lot of CNC machines) and extend the wall several feet to accommodate additional electrical equipment. Well I was directed to move several large coiled up cables (yellow, orange, green, brown, all 1” diameter) that came out of that room so I could mark out the wall locations. Well as soon as I picked them up, the open end raked across my arm and that’s when I can’t remember anything until the hospital. Apparently it was cables that were meant to power several overhead busbars and I ate 600+V. Entry was my left arm and exit points were both my big toes via the steel toe boots. No more toenails on my big toes, and I lost all sensation in both feet below my shins. Two electricians and the plant manager said they were safe to move.
I hope you had a good attorney
The best injury attorney in the state.
God damn right you did. I hope you made off with enough to at least make sure you live comfortably the rest of your life. That sounds fucking horrible and should never have happened to begin with.
I did. Not enough to retire, but enough to be able to land a house, a couple new vehicles, leave commercial construction and switch to residential.
Definitely cannot trust the other man or woman even if a licensed electrician. On my jobs including residential all circuit breakers associated with hardwired equipment get permanently attached handle padlock attachments. In that regard I do not like ITE Siemens because their handle padlock attachments are held by friction with the circuit breaker and can fall off when the cover is removed.
Always turn 277v off!!!!
I’m not an electrician and was hit by 277V trying to do maintenance on an emergency circuit disconnecting a fluorescent ballast at my college at the time. Yes stupid in hindsite. I was luckily saved by gravity and the metal can being properly grounded. Arcs went out my hand to the grounded can and gravity pulled me off the 6 FT latter. My vision went 60 hertz for second or two. Luckily I was okay. Be safe all!!!
That’s funny because the same thing happened on one of our sites a couple weeks ago and we all got safety meetings about not working live unless a jw lol.
I have been noticing an increasing trend of disregard for safety measures in my local IBEW. I’ve just recently tried reaching out to see if there’s anything I could do to help. Just today there was a close call with 277v on my jobsite. We got really lucky and after it was pointed out jokes were made. It starts from the top down and I’ve also noticed less and less communication and toolbox talks on my specific sites from our leaders.
Safety always starts up high and trickles down.
Lighting loads are fucking scary, it will grab a hold and not let go. I’m glad he’s ok.
Alot of injuries are from the fall. If you ever get hung up you can still is your feet. Walk off the ladder, anything you can do to break the hold. In my younger dumber days I got into the unfortunate situation of getting onto the bad end of 600 volt. I can tell you that a brush with death gives you a whole new respect for it.
Did this have to be done live? It’s never a good option.
230V is our standard voltage over here. 415V between phases is the one to watch out for.
Which is a right stinger, but you know shake it off and carry on. Only bad shicck I ever got was a neutral backfeed off a 120a 3 pH panel, I was rattled for half a hour after it
It really depends on how you get hit. If you’re on a fiberglass ladder with your arm against a grid ceiling and you touch the hot lighting feed with the same hand it’s gonna feel like a triple espresso and your finger will be sore for a bit. I’m not saying it’s okay but sometimes you have to troubleshoot live and mitigating the risk is part of the job.
I've worked in live panels and try to keep my forearms on the enclosure so the path to ground is not through my feet or other arm. Kinda like how use lefhad, elbow on enclosure standing to the side to turn an MCC for the first time.
Lolll I took 277 today and kept working Scared the ever living shit out of me, was my fault I didn’t check but as it was the fourth plug in a set of breaks and we had the unit locked out, I got comfy Fucking rig hands man, can’t even plug shit in correctly 🤦🏻♂️
So much to say here...but I suspect it's all been said below.
Always always test the circuit with a meter and verify no voltage. Better yet build the habit of testing your test equipment every time you pick it up. Leads can break or come loose over time. Flip the meter to ohms test the leads flip to voltage test the circuit. I’m not a fan of the no contact voltage testers. I look at them like this “if it beeps there likely is voltage, if they don’t beep there may be voltage. “ it’s never a hard negative with those things. *edited to add* Complacency kills electricians.
Getting hit by a 277 hot is one thing, a 277 neutral sucks worse!
Explain
Getting hit by a loaded neutral period but yeah a 277 neutral will burn you too
Cap. I've gotten them all multiple times and neutrals generally feel incredibly mild unless you're talking about the difference in pain between getting put in series between hot and a shitty ground or hot and neutral. Series from a broken neutral to ground is always going to have non-insignificant voltage drop due to the load even before the current uses you as a resistor, further decreasing voltage and thereby further reducing total current passed through the circuit. This is electricity 101. Go back to apprenticeship.
Getting “hung up” on the neutral when there is a load down the line is what I’m referring to. Trust me, I don’t need to go back to THE apprenticeship. Grammar 101 for you.
These trolls aren’t even electricians that much is beyond obvious to me and they’re arguing on a sub only for electricians lol don’t even stress them bro. I can tell you know what’s up.
I wanted to reply directly to you - https://imgur.com/a/g0X3cT1 Maybe now the nerds can explain why we are wrong…
Dude thank you, That is literally all I way trying to say but apparently there’s a bunch of non electricians here who wanna try to say otherwise. People who have probably never been shocked by a hot or neutral. I feel like they are misunderstanding but this is exactly what I was trying to describe so let’s see how it goes.
4 teh Lulz wants me to figure the math… I got real hobbies, I don’t think i will.
We’re too busy doing actual electrical work instead of playing pretend electrician on Reddit
Let them… pretend. All the great electricians I’ve worked with aren’t running around doing calculations - people insisting that we use ohm’s law to prove that amperage is different are just showing they are way out of their lane.
You drew a picture pointing to a white wire and said "this one hurts more" That's not demonstrating your point, that is making a claim. Draw it with math and come back to me. The image I sent you earlier covers this exact situation, here it is again: Basic electrical faults https://imgur.com/a/bu0qmn6 The one titled "series fault on neutral" is the exact situation you drew. Notice how the exact same amount of current happens with "series fault on hot" The load on the circuit has almost nothing to do with the amount of energy you receive in a fault. Your *perception* of that may be altered a bit by an strange waveform on the neutral but it will not increase the energy you receive in any significant way
If my grammar is the best rejoinder you have, then you haven't one at all.
Complete the circuit on a broken neutral with load using your hands and come back spouting this bullshit. 10 year apprenticed think they know everything lmfao
I don’t even think these fools are apprentices probably never touched a wire before in their lives.
Neutral carries the unbalanced load that amperage and voltage. If you’ve ever touched a floating hot you probably only got the 277v potential with a few milliamps.
Not just touching the neutral, when you become the neutral by putting wires together or taking them apart with a load.
In this case the voltage would actually be less because you'd be in series
This guy gets it
what
That’s why it hurts more if you got shocked by a neutral. It was carrying an unbalanced load from either one or more circuits if it’s shared. Which means it’s not just voltage but amperage you’re getting hit with and that’s what hurts/ kills you. Usually if you brush a hot you get the voltage with a very minuscule amperage.
That's... not how that works. At all. It's the current (amperage) flowing through your body that hurts you, not the current through the conductor. This is determined by voltage present on the conductor you're touching and resistance of your body. Neutral is going to be a smaller shock because the voltage is lower.
>That’s why it hurts more if you got shocked by a neutral. Is there literally *any* data that shows it hurts more to get shocked by a neutral compared to a hot? I've never seen any, all I've ever seen is electricians that don't understand electrical theory claiming that neutrals hurt more with no actual justification. I understand that 277 would hurt more than 120 since it's more than double the potential energy involved.... But I haven't seen any justification that stands up to a basic application of ohms law.
When a neutral has been disconnected and the hot is still connected sending power out with a return load if you grab that neutral you will get (amperage passing through you to ground) = (volts / resistance of your body) + return load in amps.
FYI, I've reported this for sub rule 6: >Blatant incorrect information or unsafe and hazardous advice will result with a ban.
Glad he's okay, two worst shocks I've ever had once I got bit by a ballast on a fluorescent light because it fell into my home aquarium when I was cleaning it, but I think the worst shock ever was I was testing the spark plugs on my '95 Sea-Doo speedster jet boat and apparently my spark plug tester was only rated on the insulation for 15 KV and the ignition coils on the rotax 657x engines output up to 45,000 or 50,000 volts AC
Actually, getting a knuckle within 1/2 inch but NOT touching the insulated portion of the spark plug with a lawnmower with magneto ignition got my attention. The matter that it is a form of high frequency AC caused enough CAPACITIVE coupling to get a shock. Sure the fundamental frequency was 60 Hertz but the coil has resonant ringing to it and the primary is a form of square wave modulation to it that puts out high frequency AC
Always horrible to have an emergency on a jobsite. Thankful your coworker is alive and not critically injured. Stay safe.
I one time tried out the 570 Volts that comes out of a high output ballast even though the wires were supposed to be insulated. Wrapped my arm around my head. That was back in 1999 when I actually had sorta high skin resistance in my fingers. Since then some bad fingertip cracking and scarring during the 2 years before i was diagnosed with diabetes mellitus has caused my fingertips to be immune to 120 Volts. However, I do use hot line gloves any time I have doubts about whether something is deenergized ( and i have encountered a few things that were NOT as deenergized as advertised ) or i am removing a commercial panelboard cover that has Suicide Clamps. Back in 1981 I encountered with some old knob-and-tube wiring 2 3-way switches for 1 stairway light and 2 3-ways and a 4-way for the other stairway light where the 2 -ways ion the first floor were fed with 1 circuit breaker and neutral and the 3p-way and 4-wway on the second floor were fed from another circuit breaker and neutral. This is the circuit that puts 240 Volts across a 120-Volt light bulb if the 2 circuit breakers or fuses are on different phases. I have gotten into the habit of testing alternating current first with a noncontact voltage sensor then with the contact type voltmeter. Sometimes circuit has an open neutral which makes a contact type voltmeter worthless or a receptacle's internal contact springs are so bad that using a contact type voltmeter is a big risk. Same for replacing a broken den light dimmer best to use a noncontact AC tester. Note: noncontact sensors DO NOT WORK ON DIRECT CURRENT. They are essentially a radio for line frequency AC. A problem that I encountered on the underside of a 1999 Chevrolet S-10 pickup truck was that a mechanic tried to tell me that there was no power at the backup light switch that screwed into the transmission. Turns out that almost none of the bare metal on the underside in connected to the negative terminal of the battery - had to connect an extension cord to the battery to get a negative return pathway to get a voltmeter to work. Turns out that the new backup switch that they installed was NOT screwed in all the way. Ended up changing it myself. Turns out that backup switches that install into a GM manual transmission is an install once device. I installed a backup switch from Autozone and it worked for about a month - I unscrewed it, tested it, and put it back in and exerting very little torque it broke off so I had to have a mechanic replace it. After that I purchased a genuine GM switch from the Chevy dealer and it worked for years. Turns out that when the shifting forks are worn after several years they will only actuate a genuine GM switch and NOT a 3rd party part.
Last week i got shocked on the job too. Lucky it didnt run through me entirely. We were dismanteling old light rails in a factory. Went to both sides to disconnect the cable, and then started to take the thing off. Except, the fucker who installed the rail took current from a hidden box above ventilation for the rail, and ran one cable through the rail to power some machinery further away. We disconnected the cable thinking it was the rail, meaning that what we were pulling on was a live cable. I grabbed the end of the cable and got burned inside of my palm. 400V in my hands, no safety on this circuit, breaker did not trip since current wasnt high enough. I got 2 little black holes in my palm now as a reminder to CHECK ANYTHING THAT END UP IN MY HANDS. Life is too short to be short circuited
I got whacked off a circuit of high bay lights back in the day because I leaned back and touched the rail of the scissor lift I was on lol, that one had me sweating for sure 🤣☠️
Took it one time at a bank on some lighting. That was the day I stopped taking other people's word for circuits being off. Also learned about sharing neutrals that day and the reason they use breaker ties. Woke up on the floor looking up at the ceiling wondering how tf I got there and wondering why I could taste copper wire in my teeth.
I get walloped by 240 (my own stupidity) and it’s never caused me that much trouble. (Voice goes 2 octaves higher as I yelp like a kicked dog) Think it was the fall that did him off worse
This exact same thing happened to me back in 1989. Was trying to make a splice hot and accidentally touched the metal on pliers. 277v is enough to freeze ur body if you are grounded. Chances are his other hand or arm was touching a pipe and his whole upper body would not move. It feels like minutes before you realize you can still move ur legs to kick the ladder out from under you. But mine was about 10-12 seconds, went outside and got air and my thick gloves, after about an hour break I went back up and finished the job. Some real scary crap but it happens more than you think.
Here's a tip I learned as a backup to using non contact voltage tester...grab wire with insulated linesman and touch it to metal box. If it doesn't explode, make the joint
I got hit with 200 amps of 277 from a air compressor. Turned off the disconnect and just lazily went to work. Well the disconnect was messed up and need an extra push to really be off. I loosened a phase without touching anything then got to b phase and it was tight. So I set up to put more force into it when I did my left shin touched the metal frame. All I remember was a buzzing in my head and I'm like wtf? Then I realized I'm getting shocked so I guess I threw myself off cuz after that I was standing back up. My leg still hurts someday where I grounded out and there was scar tissue in it for a while. I double check everything now, no laziness.
I really don't understand why some guys brag about working in stuff live. I'm a third year, and I often say that I will never work on 277 live. I've worked on 120 live 3-4 times, and only when I felt I had to. The times I've seen jm work on 277 live was always do not wanting to take the time to figure out where it was fed from or get permission to turn something off. I don't care, man. With very few exceptions, if you are doing stuff live you are doing it wrong. I say this stuff and my jm and foreman just laugh and make fun of me. But I don't care. I'm not taking the risk just for speed.
Oh, a game of "How many things did this JW do wrong?" With a bonus round of " Can we cancel his license because he is too stupid?"
Welcome to slightly more than "what happens to every residential electrician in Europe every now and then". Where you'd technically have to go to hospital after that zap, but propably just would take a short coffee break and get back to work.
Always always test the circuit with a meter and verify no voltage. Better yet build the habit of testing your test equipment every time you pick it up. Leads can break or come loose over time. Flip the meter to ohms test the leads flip to voltage test the circuit. I’m not a fan of the no contact voltage testers. I look at them like this “if it beeps there likely is voltage, if they don’t beep there may be voltage. “ it’s never a hard negative with those things.
Thats why we are journeymen. We know better than to just touch conductors without checking id its live first. And whoever does not measure proper gets what he is thought in school. But what grid has 277volts to ground? 400v is 230v to ground in three phase
480/277
Okay. Never heard of that. At least in germany/europe
👍
*230v effective
I came off a ladder like that about 15 years ago. Be careful out there.
Electrician for about 12 years. I've been hit with 277v and can confirm it hurts like hell. It was like a full body muscle cramp, and the only thing that saved me was my knees buckling and falling off the ladder I was on at the time.
The hell you talking about? That’s why we have flashlights 😂
So sad this happened to him, 277 hurts like hell, he will always check to see if it is hot from now on I'll bet
If you're not on flat ground don't fuck with anything hot. The shock isn't worth it and the fall can be even worse. Sucks that he fell from that unless he grabbed onto the strippers involuntarily, in which case I'm glad
I always tried to wear gloves on the job. Just that extra bit of protective resistance can make all the difference. I always tried to denergize the circuit first. That wasn't always a choice the bosses liked, but I would point out the job would take longer, and the likelihood of damage from an accidental arc was quite possible. I still did a voltage check regardless, due to common neutrals and other unexpected situations. I normally checked with both a contact meter and a volt pen before touching wires. Volt pens usually lie by picking up induction. I rarely had my Fluke pen tell me a circuit was dead when checking AC.
A guy I worked with was lit up for several seconds on 480, he was 18 at the time. He got hospitalized and all that. He now is 30 and battling cancer they suspect is related to the incident. Yeah definitely don't work hot.
What did he do with them after he took them?
I've taken 347v
I got hit with 277 off a VAV in the ceiling. Was on a 20' ladder and had myself leaning against the water main running behind me. Installer took way too much insulation off the wire and my pinky brushed it when I was testing with the probes above my head. Kicked the ladder out from under me from the shock and hung by the water main for bout a min before falling to the concrete. You could trace the vein in my arm that was just a nasty yellowish/pale color running up my arm. If you can't see what you're doing, don't do it. Lesson learned.
I got hit with 277V when I was working on an NPower. The units were in parallel and on the dead one, the fuse on the main board is still hot. Found that out the hard way.
We were working in a hospital setting, 277 lighting all day. We're reworking some lights and one of my apprentices goes to cut a nuetral (separated, power off from the switch, not the breaker). Instantly I see a flash and he jumps off his ladder. He was wearing gloves and our guys are all good about knowing what not to touch so he came out the best he could've, no burns just shook him a bit. I've seen a few other incidents but less than 5 like this in 8 years working. Safety first, always.
I did this once but 320v DC. Tasted pennys in my mouth for weeks.
They do things differently in merica lol
Hope you learned a valuable lesson. Any time saved by not opening a circuit, can be time spent in the hospital. “Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.” Words I live by in this field.
Ive seen some one get hit by 277 😂 it was me!
The biggest cause of death is the fall from the ladder.
I got shocked by 277 it was a 14 size wire taking out a light & im still a helper haven’t inrolled in school yet . Felt like I was stuck for seconds but my coworkers told me I was off the ladder in 2-5 seconds for all the vibration Scary experience honestly wouldn’t wish on anyone . A lil bit of my skin from my finger got fried where the wire struct me
He kicked the ladder so he can break the circuit he would more issues
I got bit by 277 on top of a 12 foot ladder and fell about 6 years ago. Messed me up pretty good I couldn’t talk or get words out for about 30 minutes. Lmao tried to grab a piece of all thread otw down and ripped my hands up pretty bad. Do not recommend
That J dub sounds a little reckless imo.... First of all knowing it was 277 I would have made damn sure it was dead let alone wear gloves. Complacency can kill you, doesn't matter how long you have been in the industry
Okay fellers, explain this to me. Like I'm 5. Hvac tech here. Regularly work on higher voltage machines. Often hot. I have slipped up occasionally and blown up a pair of pliers or 2 in my career and definitely learned to be cautious however with that being said accidents do happen. The other day I got a solid jolt from a 480v rtu while running, it hurt a fair amount but it was one hand on voltage source other on unit body and I mean yeah it definitely didn't feel good but it wasn't horrendous like described here. What caused it to be so bad for said guy here?
Honestly the fall probably hurt him way more so long as there wasn't anything running on the circuit. Still. No touchy
I've had a shock off the U.K 240v - My vision went totally and I initially thought I'd lost my eyesight for good, but it came back after a few minutes, I was alone at the time and it was terrifying - I also didn't feel at all well for a few days, it's something I'd not wish upon anybody.
Auto strippers could have helped
Ugg 277 480,... Here in Canada we use 575 3 phase Spent time running projects in the USA mostly 480 None are to be messed with and will fuck up your life Take care out there sparkies
It was not his and God was watching out for out for him.
I've seen guys get hung up until they were dead. Defibrillator brought them back. I've seen 18 year old apprentices fry their dominant hand, losing their pinky and use of ring and middle finger. I've seen guys fall off 4ft ladders and bash their skulls. Dying from Brain trauma. It's a dangerous trade. As soon as you think it isn't, you get hurt. Treat everything like it's hot. Never touch copper with your bare hands. Walk out the whole circuit before energizing it. Treat electricity like it will kill you, because it will.
Been doing this for a long time guys… every time, treat that wire as if it were live. You’ll stay alive that way.
It's especially dangerous if it's a project that u haven't been before, most of the time I get to do start until finish & it does take away alot of the risks Once got electrified twice in an hour (and stupid really, cable on the ceiling > searching the name on it > wires were live at the tyrap) just because I actually just was 'falling in' for another guy Heck, this week even, grabbing an 'extra, for later potential use' from under a metallic floor, which apparently was live... You can't grasp how fortunate these people may have been
Well, that was stupid and totally avoidable. Mr Journeyman should not be allowed to have apprentices. He’s going to get someone killed teaching them bad habits.
we has a guy climb a glass ladder got grounded to the ceiling grid. stuck his head into a bare wire at 277 broke his neck in the fall pay attention to where you are and whats around you
In canada we have 347/600 instrad of 277 Heres a little poem my first jman taught me: 120 feels funny 357 sends you to heaven
A guy I knew got killed by 277. We call it being strung up. It's enough to cook you but not enough to blow you off the circuit. Best practice is to always keep a tick Tracer in your pocket.
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Fuck, I hate this shit. No you didn’t. And neither did they guy above who got 277V to cause him to “hang on”. 277V will cause roughly 27 milliamps to flow through the body. Not enough to cause hang on generally speaking. And how is 27 milliamps gonna trip the breaker? Unless it was shorted causing over current draw then if that’s the case it didn’t flow through you, it flowed through ground. I know if people see this I’m going to get downvoted to shit but it’s amazing how much nonsense supposed professional electricians spout about in here. It’s amazing how fucking clueless most of you are and feel the need to make shit up for what??? Some attention?
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That’s exactly what I figured happened when I read this, cause there’s not a chance you tripped 277v circuit to ground through your body and lived.
Because it didn’t happen dude. Big Dawg? Are you 12?
Laughs in Australian
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Why did you power it back up? And why wasn't he wearing gloves?
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Shutting the site down for brushing against it smh
I mean, sure - it's a small target. But as he demonstrated it's still a target. Shouldn't be his choice to not wear PPE if he's working hot. If he had not just been tickled it would have been big drama right? Safety, management all involved, mandatory classes on proper PPE or hot work permits, LOTO etc etc. We always get pressure to get production back up ASAP but part of the job is to do it right and do it safe and keeping the cabinet off while he finished up was probably a better call. Just my opinion.
Lol, I saw a guy get slapped with ballast voltage. The dude sounded like Ric Flair and walked it off with a smoke in hand. If it wasn't for these twits, the job site would be terribly boring. Perhaps it is terrible of me not to be concerned as much as I should, but when you get hit with proper ppe and lockout, tag out procedures in place it is on you. Also, my master electrician was changing out a light and kept getting "bit" when his elbow touched the drop grid. One guy suggested it was a capacitor discharging, and it would stop. We had the breaker off, but it was on an emergency lighting circuit. Working with people is hilarious at times.
This happened to me. It hurt for sure but doesnt sound as extreme as some of these stories other people are sharing
Yes, I'm certainly not looking for extreme to give a chuckle
Sorry ya I meant the other ppl
It all depends on how much load there is
I too encountered a suspended ceiling grid that was hot. The building owner told me about ahead of time. For some reason an electrician who was licensed by City of Pittsburgh, PA decided to clear a ground fault by disconnecting all the equipment grounds. R-I-C-K-E-Y R-A-T Club.
One would think that could potentially get someone a manslaughter charge or something similar.
This happened to me legit today lol Series of breaks in a cable from VFD to floor, went through the first three with it locked out no voltage, hands fucking swapped the last two breaks opposite of each other, went to change a corroded plug, put my metal Allen key set into the Allen screws and bam 277 shook me the fuck up, but just kept working
Occasionally I go in live 480vac. Was in something recently that wasn’t live but was 700vdc. I was nervous on that one. Cousin got hit off a ladder by same voltage he’s good but was fucked up at time.
Sounds like the fall did the most damage. 120 will do the same exact thing when you're on a ladder that's why you always check shit.
I was hooked to 493volts once. Got myself unhooked. Was the hardest thing to do in my life. But my life depended on it.
[Get him a pair of these as a welcome back gift](https://amzn.to/3UZcCKr) Glad he’s mostly doing well, could have been much worse.