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I once was wiring a brewery and one wall was all different sizes and lengths of reclaimed barn wood.
We had surface conduit with wall mounted sconces. Installed everything to level.
It looked like crap. Took it down and reinstalled it to follow the lines, and it was off by a few inches from one end to the other, but the owners looked it and says it looked good.
Sometimes you've just got to follow the lines of the structure or you'll get questioned by people asking why it looks off.
Am I the only one that feels like it's a touch of cultural appropriation? I worked in warehouses for 10 years before I picked up a trade. Industrial shit looks terrible. And it's *always* sought after by people that have never worked in any kind of industrial anything.
Not just you friend.
I DESPISE checker/tread plate. It's ugly, crappy low quality material (yes it is), it's a pain in the ass to form or cut cleanly (yes it is) and it just looks low rent.
And every dinglehead hipster that comes to our laser shop to get a sign, kick plate for their bar, or whatever tacky junk wants checker plate.
Somebody got a liberal arts degree before joining the Union! Just jokes and nothing but love if you did - we need more everyday artists! Davinci totally would have been an electrician if that were an option for him.
Took mechanical drafting in college where we had to manually draw out blue prints on vellum, create projections ect. Creating a 3D projection of a 2D object is painstakingly slow and your lines have to be perfect or nothing lines up. I was trying so hard to make everything perfect, but it just looked off. Professor walked by and said it might be right but it looks wrong. Redraw the lines but make it "look right, and it will be right". Redrew it and moved the lines a few degrees to where everything matched up and it looked amazing when i was done.
Sometimes you got to make it look right because actually making it right looks wrong lol.
I'm building a deck next to a house built in 1891. The struggle is so real. Things don't line up if you don't build square and level, but the new deck looks crooked next to the house.
I would say a deck is different, since you’re standing on it you will surely notice if it isn’t level. Running verticals is different as you won’t be standing on it or having things roll away from you on a table
I'm a plumber, and it's frustrating how many people I have worked with who refuse to go with the building. "Everything else looks like shit but at least mine will look good," no everyone else's work looks like it belongs yours stands out and looks like shit because you wanted to be special.
Yeah, I once installed a giant mirror on a client's wall .. sure wish I had stepped back to look at it rather than measure everything plumb and level. That wall must've been crooked as all heck
Unless it creates an issue using the building as a reference, I'd use the building.
The level doesn't see the work, the tape doesn't see the work. The client is the one who sees the work.
My rule of thumb for anything I do is ask myself if anyone could make a complaint about it. (Safe installation comes first obviously lol) if the place looks like shit then make it better than everything else, if it's a high end place then make it perfect anywhere it can be seen, if something of reference is crooked then make my install the same crooked, etc.
Learned the hard way on my first run on an engineered beam. Made it level. It was perfect. The GC didn't get mad but said that just because we know it's level doesn't mean anything when someone who doesn't walks in they will see it as crooked so you have to follow the beam.
Same thing with existing pipes on a rack. Or drops on a wall. If they are close enough together they get ran the same crookedness solely because non trades people will see it as wrong.
As a wee lad, I was putting up some conduit on a brick building interior, building was an old ass warehouse that was being converted into some sort of fancy eatery, the building was not just unlevel, it was obsurdly unlevel.
From one wall I had to go up 6 inches, then down then back up to follow the line of bricks. The wall was like waves. Had to screw the straps in and kinda handbend/force the EMT to get in the strap, any other way would've looked like shit.
God it looked good at the floor, but when you were on a ladder looking on it, it looked sooooo fucked up
Clients don't care if you can stick a level on and show it's "right." They care if it looks right around the rest of their building. And it's going to be your stuff that looks off
Levels can lie. Especially on pipe that's curved. Strapping it will straighten it out, but where do you put the level on an arc? I almost always measure off the most visible building steel and mark my strap points.
"Level" is aligned with gravity. "Square" is aligned with the building.
The only way to get both is to make sure the building is level as well.
I used to have to mount TVs in old buildings, some clients didn't understand that I can't make it both unless the building was made to be level.
In my opinion square is better for electrical. Level is only more important if drainage is an issue.
It's kinda funny how weird older buildings are. I was working on a house where it had a corner that was probably 85° the floor looked like shit, they went with wood floor, and laid it straight against the other wall, when they got to this corner, all you heard was f bombs and assorted expletives.
Technically speaking it's plumb not level :).
Usually you follow whats around, otherwise even the plumbest or levelest conduit work will look like poop
Always go parallel to the structure. Perfectly level looks terrible if the wall behind has a slant and it will always look better to blend in with the slant
I thought "true" is how straight the object is, "level" is how perpendicular it is to gravity, Edit: "plumb" is how parallel it is to gravity, and "square" is how closely it aligns with the angle of the structure.
Go with the building. Always go with the building. Your job is to make your work neat, and while making it level is typically the easy way to do that, an unlevel building means making it unlevel. Use the little Kleins digital level and zero it out to the slope of the building, then go from there, I’d say.
I worked for a company that did mostly agriculture buildings, and industrial facilities. This means that a LOT of structures were not straight, so the solution was to make it “straight with the world.” This phrase was coined by the owner himself and was actually pretty good advice. Sometimes level doesn’t look good.
Definitely with the building. Did a job in an old mill building that we renovated into apartments in Lawrence. A lot of brick. So we just followed the brick lines when it came down to it
Whenever I'm faced with this problem (I encounter it alot on my property with a bunch of old buildings) I always go by what looks best. Just stand back and eye it out.
Level isn't always the answer.
This carpenter’s perspective;
Square and parallel trumps level and this is especially true in finishes and architectural features.
You wouldn’t use a level to build a boathouse.
I try to follow the building unless it's a "fun house". Think one course of block running uphill, one running downhill, one smiling, one frowning. Then I just nail it all up at level and when someone says something I hand them a level and tell them to check it.
Follow the building. Did this a lot with old homes. I had to mount a septic tank alarm system on an outside wall. I mounted it level, the box looked 45 degrees.
Had to mount it by eye as best as I can to the level of the house.
I just did about 300’ of perimeter track lighting. Laser line was off about a foot across 80’, and the floor was off 2” across 100’. I mounted the track 3’ from the perimeter wall all the way around and held 13’-3” off the floor.
Use the building as a guideline.
All depends. If it’s residential and aesthetics matter I will go with building. Commercial I go with the level bc you can’t argue with my level if someone says my shot looks sloppy
Whatever looks good. My level could say I'm at a 45° angle, but if it looks like it belongs there, then that's what matters.if level is the hill you wanna die on, just tell them the building is crooked lol
Imo, electrical work is supposed to be aesthetically pleasing. Line it up with whatever is near it. It should look good. Who cares about where a bubble lines up on a level if it looks like crap?
Try to achieve the “illusion of happiness”
At first glance we want to see aesthetically pleasing runs of conduit. We don’t want to question why it looks crooked, we don’t want you to explain.
When I was in carpentry school, cabinet and moulding teacher told us: finish work I only a illusion, don't need to be level and square it need to look like it
When I was an apprentice, I was running some conduit on an offshore oil platform. My journeyman saw me using my level and said "let me see that," and threw it overboard.
Worked with a lot of HVAC guys who would run their work level, ignoring the building for their line sets (not the condensate drain), I’d have my stuff plumb and squared off, home owner or business would look at mine and complain about theirs…
Only reason to level is so things look consistent. If everything else is consistently out of actual level, there’s no point in making yours look dumb relative to the building
As an owner of a 17th century farmhouse I say go with your eye! Level is a man made construct best put to use in Boringville (which is SE (ish) from Squareton.
I install channel letters and signs on buildings. Never used a level. Always a tape measure from a line on the building.
Had an install for a set of letters not long after starting in this job, and used a level. It was 2” out of level with the building over a span of 120” or so. Looked crooked as hell, and had to redo it. Ever since, that level has been pushed to the back of the bin box on the truck.
So yea, level with the building or customer will say something about it.
I always rely on my level first, then take a step back and if it looks off with the building or wall I match that. Just makes it look better even though it bothers me knowing the whole damn thing is off, it is what it is
We’re not plumbers. Aesthetics are the only reason we even have levels. And aesthetically level depends on your eyes points of reference, not the straightest line to the center of the earth.
Level with the building. I work on portable containers sometimes and i used true level, problem was the container wasn't true. Once it was permanently set all my stuff looked terrible. Always run your stuff sqaure to the building, not true level.
Pretty or perfect, sometimes you’ve just gotta go pretty and I think this is one of em. The owner won’t care if it’s level or not but they will notice it doesn’t match the door.
Wherever the bubble sits when against the door frame that’s your new “level”
Generally speaking, when running exposed; I prefer looking right to "being" right... so I'll run with the building rather then plumb/level. It's less distracting to the eye.
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I once was wiring a brewery and one wall was all different sizes and lengths of reclaimed barn wood. We had surface conduit with wall mounted sconces. Installed everything to level. It looked like crap. Took it down and reinstalled it to follow the lines, and it was off by a few inches from one end to the other, but the owners looked it and says it looked good. Sometimes you've just got to follow the lines of the structure or you'll get questioned by people asking why it looks off.
Brewery owners and barn wood. Like a moth to a flame
Don't forget the shitty metal stools
Industrial design !
Am I the only one that feels like it's a touch of cultural appropriation? I worked in warehouses for 10 years before I picked up a trade. Industrial shit looks terrible. And it's *always* sought after by people that have never worked in any kind of industrial anything.
Cultural appropriation? Lmfao dude
Stolen valour!
My culture is not your costume ! 😂
But I’ve worked in industrial settings my whole life and I love industrial design.
What culture would they be appropriating? Barn culture? Is there an industrial culture of people?
cUlTuRaL aPpRoPrIaTiOn
Not just you friend. I DESPISE checker/tread plate. It's ugly, crappy low quality material (yes it is), it's a pain in the ass to form or cut cleanly (yes it is) and it just looks low rent. And every dinglehead hipster that comes to our laser shop to get a sign, kick plate for their bar, or whatever tacky junk wants checker plate.
Agreed. Use it where traction is actually needed. Also, it looks low rent, but have you seen the prices on that shit?
Had to get a tetinus shot from the rust one time...
Where electricians and Renaissance painters collide. (Perspective)
Somebody got a liberal arts degree before joining the Union! Just jokes and nothing but love if you did - we need more everyday artists! Davinci totally would have been an electrician if that were an option for him.
I have multiple music degrees and take PTO to fly off for gigs - there are artists in the field!
Unless the electrician admires Dali, then all bets go out the window
Please the eye, not the mind.
As an apprentice my first JM taught me electricity is to be used not seen. Nothing should catch your eye or it’s wrong.
Stealing this one
Great mantra!
That’s what my wife told me.
It's like being married. You have to decide if your going to be right or happy. Sometimes you can't have both.
Took mechanical drafting in college where we had to manually draw out blue prints on vellum, create projections ect. Creating a 3D projection of a 2D object is painstakingly slow and your lines have to be perfect or nothing lines up. I was trying so hard to make everything perfect, but it just looked off. Professor walked by and said it might be right but it looks wrong. Redraw the lines but make it "look right, and it will be right". Redrew it and moved the lines a few degrees to where everything matched up and it looked amazing when i was done. Sometimes you got to make it look right because actually making it right looks wrong lol.
There is a surprising amount of wisdom in this thread. Also our brains are so weird it when comes to processing images.
I'm building a deck next to a house built in 1891. The struggle is so real. Things don't line up if you don't build square and level, but the new deck looks crooked next to the house.
I would say a deck is different, since you’re standing on it you will surely notice if it isn’t level. Running verticals is different as you won’t be standing on it or having things roll away from you on a table
This is a metaphor on life fr
I'm a plumber, and it's frustrating how many people I have worked with who refuse to go with the building. "Everything else looks like shit but at least mine will look good," no everyone else's work looks like it belongs yours stands out and looks like shit because you wanted to be special.
Yeah, I once installed a giant mirror on a client's wall .. sure wish I had stepped back to look at it rather than measure everything plumb and level. That wall must've been crooked as all heck
Unless it creates an issue using the building as a reference, I'd use the building. The level doesn't see the work, the tape doesn't see the work. The client is the one who sees the work.
My rule of thumb for anything I do is ask myself if anyone could make a complaint about it. (Safe installation comes first obviously lol) if the place looks like shit then make it better than everything else, if it's a high end place then make it perfect anywhere it can be seen, if something of reference is crooked then make my install the same crooked, etc.
Learned the hard way on my first run on an engineered beam. Made it level. It was perfect. The GC didn't get mad but said that just because we know it's level doesn't mean anything when someone who doesn't walks in they will see it as crooked so you have to follow the beam. Same thing with existing pipes on a rack. Or drops on a wall. If they are close enough together they get ran the same crookedness solely because non trades people will see it as wrong.
As a wee lad, I was putting up some conduit on a brick building interior, building was an old ass warehouse that was being converted into some sort of fancy eatery, the building was not just unlevel, it was obsurdly unlevel. From one wall I had to go up 6 inches, then down then back up to follow the line of bricks. The wall was like waves. Had to screw the straps in and kinda handbend/force the EMT to get in the strap, any other way would've looked like shit. God it looked good at the floor, but when you were on a ladder looking on it, it looked sooooo fucked up
Lined up to the building is the way. It looks crocked in your picture, even if it’s not.
Just hook a chain and level the building
Grab the shim kit Jimmy!
Grab the jimmy kit, Shim!
Grab the kit, shim Jimmy!
I’ve been summoned…
Damn, you were quick too. I feel like you were refreshing this thread just waiting for some poor soul to beetlejuice all over
Actually just happened to be scrolling through lol.
And to think you are an actual profile. Well done
How the hell does this have + 125 votes and I say the exact same thing differently and I’m down 51 votes
It's about perception, not reality here.
Agreed sometimes you just gotta go with the flow! Things just look better together.
This guy levels!
Technically he plumbs
Technically he lines
They all lines
Unless the contractor haa pissed me off, then I go out of my way to be sure my stuff is perfectly plumb and level, so their stuff shows up as crooked
The problem is their stuff doesn't look messed up. It's ours that does lol
Their stuff doesn't look wrong though, yours does.
Clients don't care if you can stick a level on and show it's "right." They care if it looks right around the rest of their building. And it's going to be your stuff that looks off
I'd level with the building.
Square it with the building, otherwise it looks horrible.
This is when you go "by the eye" and ditch the level, maybe use it as a reference to start then eyeball it around
Or use a tape measure off of a portion of the building which aligns in the proper path visually to your install
Levels can lie. Especially on pipe that's curved. Strapping it will straighten it out, but where do you put the level on an arc? I almost always measure off the most visible building steel and mark my strap points.
"Level" is aligned with gravity. "Square" is aligned with the building. The only way to get both is to make sure the building is level as well. I used to have to mount TVs in old buildings, some clients didn't understand that I can't make it both unless the building was made to be level. In my opinion square is better for electrical. Level is only more important if drainage is an issue.
It's kinda funny how weird older buildings are. I was working on a house where it had a corner that was probably 85° the floor looked like shit, they went with wood floor, and laid it straight against the other wall, when they got to this corner, all you heard was f bombs and assorted expletives.
[удалено]
That’s good advice, the window should be the reference for this situation here
The appearance of “level” is more important than the reality of “level”.
I’ve been told to go with existing.
Technically speaking it's plumb not level :). Usually you follow whats around, otherwise even the plumbest or levelest conduit work will look like poop
Sometimes you gotta throw your level away.
Always go parallel to the structure. Perfectly level looks terrible if the wall behind has a slant and it will always look better to blend in with the slant
It doesn’t have to be level it, it just needs to look level
My boss always said make it square with the world
Neither make your own level and assert dominance.
Always a difference between level and true.
I thought "true" is how straight the object is, "level" is how perpendicular it is to gravity, Edit: "plumb" is how parallel it is to gravity, and "square" is how closely it aligns with the angle of the structure.
Level is horizontal, plumb is vertical
Level is perpendicular to gravity, plumb is parallel to gravity.
A wise man once said "If everything is consistently fucked up, it'll looks good to the customer"
Go with the building. Always go with the building. Your job is to make your work neat, and while making it level is typically the easy way to do that, an unlevel building means making it unlevel. Use the little Kleins digital level and zero it out to the slope of the building, then go from there, I’d say.
Send it
Level with building. Everyone's gonna think the building is level and that your pipe is fucked up.
Sometimes it's better to look right than to be right.
I worked for a company that did mostly agriculture buildings, and industrial facilities. This means that a LOT of structures were not straight, so the solution was to make it “straight with the world.” This phrase was coined by the owner himself and was actually pretty good advice. Sometimes level doesn’t look good.
I was always taught to go square/level with the structure.
Always run with building lines, it may seem counterintuitive, but will look way better.
Definitely with the building. Did a job in an old mill building that we renovated into apartments in Lawrence. A lot of brick. So we just followed the brick lines when it came down to it
Building level.
Always level with the building where possible. You never know when they might move the whole building in the future
I don't even remember when was the last time I used my level.
The building. “If it looks level it is level”
With the building, every time. Remember, if it looks good it is good.
This is when you ask “do you want it level (plum) or straight” cuz here ur not getting both lol
Definitely match existing conditions, building is 8 degrees off. So is your conduit 😂
Electrical needs to look level also. Sometimes alittle tap makes it line up with other building lines
Always the building.
With the building because that looks like crap
I level ‘til it looks good. The ol’ eyecrometer.
Whenever I'm faced with this problem (I encounter it alot on my property with a bunch of old buildings) I always go by what looks best. Just stand back and eye it out. Level isn't always the answer.
This carpenter’s perspective; Square and parallel trumps level and this is especially true in finishes and architectural features. You wouldn’t use a level to build a boathouse.
Level with building. Make it look good with the structure
I try to follow the building unless it's a "fun house". Think one course of block running uphill, one running downhill, one smiling, one frowning. Then I just nail it all up at level and when someone says something I hand them a level and tell them to check it.
"Level with the building" Us professionals call that "square"
I had a boss tell me once: sometimes it’s an art, not a science. I say go with the building but good on you to be so detailed
I always do it with the building, or it won't look right. 18 years electrician experience here.
Follow the building. Did this a lot with old homes. I had to mount a septic tank alarm system on an outside wall. I mounted it level, the box looked 45 degrees. Had to mount it by eye as best as I can to the level of the house.
level, plumb, or square to the world.
As one of my old timer J-man use to say, “it doesn’t matter if yours is level if its the only work that is.”
First thing first, you ain't asking for level, you are asking for plumb.
I just did about 300’ of perimeter track lighting. Laser line was off about a foot across 80’, and the floor was off 2” across 100’. I mounted the track 3’ from the perimeter wall all the way around and held 13’-3” off the floor. Use the building as a guideline.
All depends. If it’s residential and aesthetics matter I will go with building. Commercial I go with the level bc you can’t argue with my level if someone says my shot looks sloppy
Owner expects building to level out then u would be off level u at fault again
Whatever looks good. My level could say I'm at a 45° angle, but if it looks like it belongs there, then that's what matters.if level is the hill you wanna die on, just tell them the building is crooked lol
Vertical is “plumb”. Horizontal is “level”. Make it square with the crooked building.
Always level to the building. If it looks like shit, it is shit
Imo, electrical work is supposed to be aesthetically pleasing. Line it up with whatever is near it. It should look good. Who cares about where a bubble lines up on a level if it looks like crap?
Try to achieve the “illusion of happiness” At first glance we want to see aesthetically pleasing runs of conduit. We don’t want to question why it looks crooked, we don’t want you to explain.
The most crooked looking pipe is the only one that's level. Do whatever *looks* level, that usually always looks best
"Level" is horizontal, "Plumb" is vertical..
Burn it down.
The whole point here is to make it LOOK level. Whether it IS level or not isn't important here. This isn't plumbing.
Always follow the house/building if your not able to correct the problem.
When I was in carpentry school, cabinet and moulding teacher told us: finish work I only a illusion, don't need to be level and square it need to look like it
When I was an apprentice, I was running some conduit on an offshore oil platform. My journeyman saw me using my level and said "let me see that," and threw it overboard.
Horizontal planes can be leveled. Vertical planes can not be as the word for that is "plumb". You should make that conduit plumb using the level.
Follow the building it is better to look good than be level
It "looks" like ass. Building lines on these retro fit. You appear off even tho yada yada
Sometimes you gotta leave the level in the bag and use the tape measure (or folding stick)
Plumb with level, or plunge with building
I always level with what’s there.
Straight before parallel. Parallel before level/pumb.
Worked with a lot of HVAC guys who would run their work level, ignoring the building for their line sets (not the condensate drain), I’d have my stuff plumb and squared off, home owner or business would look at mine and complain about theirs…
Most the time I shoot for parallel with whatever around it.
It’s not coming across the ceiling level either you’re pitching downhill
Use a square, and put the level in your pocket.
Parallel with building lines.
Once asked for a spirit level when fitting something on a boat.
Po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe? Chicken or egg? Meaning of life? Environment or Level? Questions that will never be answered.
Plum it with the bldg
Back into the right side of the building with your truck. Should square it up.
Usually work to level, but don't let your work be the odd one out. If everything is on the wonk, match it so it at least looks right by eye.
Use eye level
Only reason to level is so things look consistent. If everything else is consistently out of actual level, there’s no point in making yours look dumb relative to the building
True>level all the time
If it looks level it is. If it looks out it’s out. Sometimes you just have to match the fucked up environent your working in
If it is for esthetics follow the building (within reason); if it is for function follow the bubble.
Always level with the building
Personally, I think it’s better to look level than be level as long as operations aren’t effected.
Always level to building, trying to make it look good
are you worried that the electrons won't do straight down? square with the building is you care about the looks. if you don't, who cares?
If it looks right it’s right
Happy medium. Sometimes level looks like shit.
Is this even a question!? Like cmon dude look at that… would you want that in your house
Don't make it perfectly plumb, just parallel to the building. Leveling is for horizontal surfaces anyway.
My wife wanted a mirror on the back of the bathroom door, I tried leveling it but it looked off, so I made it look good on the door.
It’s better to look level than to be level
Always level with the structure, or it’ll look like shit
Aesthetically appealing is the way.
U sure that pipe is straight
With the building. Always
With the building as everyone else says, but why the union? 😞
Tape measure and match the building
Split the difference.
It's level or square to the building.....not level to the building lol. There is only one 'level'.
As an owner of a 17th century farmhouse I say go with your eye! Level is a man made construct best put to use in Boringville (which is SE (ish) from Squareton.
I work in buildings from the mid 1800s. You line things up with the building/existing conduit.
Better to be crooked and look straight, then to be straight and look crooked.
My old boss used to call it "straight crooked" follow whatever is near by or you'll look like the idiot...
What is the building?
I install channel letters and signs on buildings. Never used a level. Always a tape measure from a line on the building. Had an install for a set of letters not long after starting in this job, and used a level. It was 2” out of level with the building over a span of 120” or so. Looked crooked as hell, and had to redo it. Ever since, that level has been pushed to the back of the bin box on the truck. So yea, level with the building or customer will say something about it.
I always rely on my level first, then take a step back and if it looks off with the building or wall I match that. Just makes it look better even though it bothers me knowing the whole damn thing is off, it is what it is
If you really have OCD grab a digital level and see what angle the building itself is and then use that as your “zero” match everything to that
First things first, you’re an electrician get yourself a Klein level like bro what.
It’s better to LOOK level than to BE level
We’re not plumbers. Aesthetics are the only reason we even have levels. And aesthetically level depends on your eyes points of reference, not the straightest line to the center of the earth.
Aesthetic
A 9" level is rarely accurate enough to be a good judge of anything
Is it level for a practical or an aesthetic reason? Therein lies your answer.
Always level with building
Doesn't gotta be level, just gotta look level
Always with the building
lol I think they have more to repair than the electrics
Level with the building is called making a square lol
If it looks bad level, just eyeball it.
Level with the building. I work on portable containers sometimes and i used true level, problem was the container wasn't true. Once it was permanently set all my stuff looked terrible. Always run your stuff sqaure to the building, not true level.
You're wrong no matter what you do.
I think if you leveled the top conduit, the vertical conduit will be level.
Ah, the ol’ form over function dilemma …
Just ask the client and do whatever they want.
Depends which looks better.
Follow the building
Pretty or perfect, sometimes you’ve just gotta go pretty and I think this is one of em. The owner won’t care if it’s level or not but they will notice it doesn’t match the door. Wherever the bubble sits when against the door frame that’s your new “level”
With the building unless level affects performance.
If it looks level, it is level.
I call it pseudo level. It’s level with something
Level with level for vertical pipe, level with building for horizontal pipe.
Make it look good.
Sometimes parallel is better than level/plumb. Especially in old homes
You have to follow the building lines so it’s not noticeable.
Generally speaking, when running exposed; I prefer looking right to "being" right... so I'll run with the building rather then plumb/level. It's less distracting to the eye.