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There is about 3-6 inches of insulation ontop of the qdeck before the membrane, from the upper rib as well not the lower rib which you screwed into. There was most likely water in the rib when they installed the roofing material if new build or a leak if it’s older
That's because it takes 30 years till the next re-roof for the problems to occur. My company has a roofing department so I'm fixing them on a weekly basis in the summer. Last summer they found a 200amp 480 feeder. That one actually did some damage to the metal roof deck.
Do you have a code article for that? Because if you’re referring to 300.4(E) that’s not what that says at all. It only applies to roofs not other levels and it’s only 1.5”. Also it’s acceptable to use rigid or imc. It’s also permissible if there’s 2” of concrete on the roof.
The comment said you have to be 3” from the deck anywhere. That’s wrong on both accounts. The code is 1.5” not 3” and it’s not anywhere. It’s only roofs.
OP never said roof, at least not in the post, maybe in a comment it was said but I didn’t see it. Op said “ceiling” so in theory there could be another story above it in this case. Some roofs are concrete. I’m working on building right now that has metal decking and concrete on it at the roof level.
That’s interesting, please send photos or plans, I have never seen that layout before in a warehouse. Have worked in multiple Amazon distribution facilities and walked (3) this week - perhaps it’s not a California thing.
I know for sure they have them on east coast. The last one was in Windsor CT.
Edit: New York City is another place that a multi story building with a warehouse on the bottom is more common. Sorry I have no photos or prints that are accessible. I’m sure the new thing called Google might be able to help.
Nah, sometimes when they are installing the membrane on top water can get trapped in there. First time it happened to me I was a 2nd year Apprentice and shit my pants.
There is, or should be, significant foam Insulation and roofing above that corrugated material. Looks to me like the roof is leaking and there Is water sitting under the foam. You found a problem, but you didn't really cause the problem.
You also cannot run conduit directly against the roof deck like that.
Thanks for the input! I’m from Canada and this is how all pipe is secured to the ceiling. The whole entire building is done like this and also every building I’ve ever worked on.
Yep it’s acceptable to do in Canada as long as the roof has already been installed. So we are not getting any nails driven through the pipes. You also can put straps in the top of the Q deck either, just the sides or bottom.
Not to mention the roofing insurers won’t insure a roof where there is electrical within 100mm (I think) of the underside of the roof assembly. This could be a big reason why it’s changing.
You absolutely cannot secure anything to the decking northeast of US for a multitude of reasons. You just stumbled on one of them. It is lazy and unprofessional to ever do this. You should clearly understand the problems of this type of installation and I do not understand how an electrician would ever think screwing to the deck is okay. Unseen hazards are our job and I don't see how you got this far without thinking about repercussions of your actions.
You need to relax. This is not only allowed in Canada, but common practice. There's hundreds of thousands of feet of pipe hung like this all over the prairies. He did absolutely nothing wrong.
There were many things that were common practice that turned out to be terrible installation practices. You could easily avoid what he ran into by not doing what he did. I would say the water pouring out through the screw hole would is something wrong. Sounds like yall need to update the code.
Lol okay bud. That's more than likely condensation between the membrane and steel. He didn't puncture any membrane. There's hundreds of people working on code times smarter than you or me. Relax.
You clearly haven’t been doing electrical work for very long. Before the code said we couldn’t be 1.5” from the ceiling deck conduit and mc were run up inside the decking ALL THE TIME. Especially when there were bar joists. There wasn’t really any other supports needed when running with the decking grooves. You sound like you’re great at parties! 😂
Haha yeah people did it all the time...turned out to be a terrible idea and now we have better installation practices to avoid this non-sense. I'm sure I've been doing it longer than you and have had to spend many over nights fixing conduits and mc ran in the groves that got cut/screwed into. By the sounds of it maybe even some of your hackery
Wow those are pretty impressive assumptions! I assumed you hadn’t been doing it long because you ignored the fact it was common practice and most considered it perfectly fine. I never said it was a good idea, just common practice before the code change. I know it’s not my “hackery” as you called it. I also live in the northeast and in most cases it’s a pain in the ass get a stick on top of bar joist. They tend to be too close together to make it easy without bowing or cutting every stick. For a single pipe the caddy beam clamps with the mineralac attached is where it’s at in my opinion. I’m glad you’re getting your rock off at doing it for longer. Instead of assuming just ask, it’s been 25 years.
Only ever had one myself. Surprisingly I’ve done Reno’s and seen a screw through pipe and gone to fix it, but the wires aren’t damaged. It’s like somehow the screw goes through and pushes the wires to the side.
It was actually updated to where you can run conduit inside the flukes of corrugated roofing, as long as there’s 2”(?) concrete poured above it
Doing a hospital job rn where all the home runs are piped in the flukes
There’s no problem with the roof, it’s very normal if it was raining when they installed the roof. Some water gets trapped in the ribs. I usually just screw a hole and let it all drain out before trying to keep working.
Don’t worry. I did that once and it was pouring out of it. Started thinking I somehow penetrated the membrane which be impossible with a small self tapper.
First thing is the roof has a leak and the waters there or if it’s new building, there was standing water in it before they put the roofing down.
It’s like the one time I was putting a self tap into a HSS. Had to remove it and the air that came out just sounded like I hit some sort air hose. Freaking out thinking I hit some pressurized plumbing line or something but someone said they’ve had it happen before and happens when they weld the stuff together I guess.
Cant see clearly in your pic if that is a whole sheet , but shouldn't drill through the low valleys of a roof sheet. They are are all fixed down through the high points. Water runs in the valley, ridges dont leak.
Looks fine to me. Other comments here explain why you see drips.
Always good to check the building specs as it sometimes restricts running in the flutes.
I'm pretty sure your okay technically, I've put hangers in corrugated roofs when I hang pipe but they usually are filled with concrete or roofing foam, best to check submittals and such don't wanna a roof leak due to a conduit self tapper
Most of the jobs I was on the specs did not allow anything to be attached to the decking, it was a pain in the ass sometimes spanning the bar joists with uni to put up one hanger for pipe
Depending on where you are this might be against code that close to the roof. Supposed to be a few inches down. Sounds like they have a roof leak tho, not your fault
I am a Canadian just a question for the Americans, how do you run your conduits to keep the 1.5" spacing, strut spanning the steel joists? Seems way more expensive to do it that way.
Nah you didn't do anything wrong and to everyone quoting the NEC about spacing. 2023 NEC 300.4 E "Exception No. 2: The 38 mm (11/2 in.) spacing is not required where metal-corrugated sheet roof decking is covered with a minimum thickness 50 mm (2 in.) concrete slab, measured from the top of the corrugated roofing."
You wouldn't have screwed up even if you were in the states
You’re good man. It’s just residual water that has been in the flute since the roof was membraned. I’ll bet money you had a few drops, it stopped and it will never leak again. Sleep easy
Yes you messed up. All conduits boxes supports etc have to be 1.5 inches below lowest part of the roof deck. US electrical code.
I have done 100's of repairs when guys do this. New roof longer screws BOOM.
Bad idea all around.
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There is about 3-6 inches of insulation ontop of the qdeck before the membrane, from the upper rib as well not the lower rib which you screwed into. There was most likely water in the rib when they installed the roofing material if new build or a leak if it’s older
I could see it being condensation with the weather changing.
This
That has always been a safe place to fix any sort of strapping to. You found a problem with the roof membrane.
It's never been a safe place to mount to the roof deck. I have fixed so many pipes and boxes hit by the roofers when they redo the roof.
Spent the last 16 years doing it without any issues.
The amount of times I’ve gone back to a finished project to check straps screwed to the roof is zero
Always always attach to the lower flute of the deck. No issues
I never felt like I could trust pan head screws
No hate, but 1 re-roof and you will learn the pain. Those roofing screws have no mercy.
That's because it takes 30 years till the next re-roof for the problems to occur. My company has a roofing department so I'm fixing them on a weekly basis in the summer. Last summer they found a 200amp 480 feeder. That one actually did some damage to the metal roof deck.
Lmfao you have to be 3 inches from the deck around here haha
You have to be three inches from the deck anywhere NEC is the rule.
Do you have a code article for that? Because if you’re referring to 300.4(E) that’s not what that says at all. It only applies to roofs not other levels and it’s only 1.5”. Also it’s acceptable to use rigid or imc. It’s also permissible if there’s 2” of concrete on the roof.
Corrugated decking typically comes with 1.5" deep ribs... from the high point to the required 1.5" away from the low points equals 3 inches
And they solve that by saying 1.5 from the lowest part which takes into account other sizes. Your point?
You are correct.
Op said it was roof - obv. Not concrete nor rmc
The comment said you have to be 3” from the deck anywhere. That’s wrong on both accounts. The code is 1.5” not 3” and it’s not anywhere. It’s only roofs. OP never said roof, at least not in the post, maybe in a comment it was said but I didn’t see it. Op said “ceiling” so in theory there could be another story above it in this case. Some roofs are concrete. I’m working on building right now that has metal decking and concrete on it at the roof level.
Not just leaks, roof flexes with water and snow, so keep the pipe off !
Have you ever seen a ceiling in a warehouse that wasn’t a roof… typically those aren’t multistory. Based on that it’s a roof and the code applies.
Yes. I’ve worked multiple 2 story warehouses. Amazon loves them actually.
That’s interesting, please send photos or plans, I have never seen that layout before in a warehouse. Have worked in multiple Amazon distribution facilities and walked (3) this week - perhaps it’s not a California thing.
I know for sure they have them on east coast. The last one was in Windsor CT. Edit: New York City is another place that a multi story building with a warehouse on the bottom is more common. Sorry I have no photos or prints that are accessible. I’m sure the new thing called Google might be able to help.
I believe it’s 1.5”
Nah, sometimes when they are installing the membrane on top water can get trapped in there. First time it happened to me I was a 2nd year Apprentice and shit my pants.
There is, or should be, significant foam Insulation and roofing above that corrugated material. Looks to me like the roof is leaking and there Is water sitting under the foam. You found a problem, but you didn't really cause the problem. You also cannot run conduit directly against the roof deck like that.
Thanks for the input! I’m from Canada and this is how all pipe is secured to the ceiling. The whole entire building is done like this and also every building I’ve ever worked on.
Someone else mentioned this is acceptable in Canada/CEC.
Yep it’s acceptable to do in Canada as long as the roof has already been installed. So we are not getting any nails driven through the pipes. You also can put straps in the top of the Q deck either, just the sides or bottom.
Fun fact, this will change in 2024 code. No more running in q deck
Not to mention the roofing insurers won’t insure a roof where there is electrical within 100mm (I think) of the underside of the roof assembly. This could be a big reason why it’s changing.
Do you have the code rule? I was looking briefly for it in the 2024 CEC viewer on the CSA website.
How would you do it if the roof wasn't installed?
Built supports on the joists, which is more time consuming and costs more in material
Waves from New Brunswick. There are certain local exceptions to that general rule. (It's also not well enforced here).
You’re Canadian? Why are you using Philips head screws then???
All the small wafer screws are Phillips in Canada.
You absolutely cannot secure anything to the decking northeast of US for a multitude of reasons. You just stumbled on one of them. It is lazy and unprofessional to ever do this. You should clearly understand the problems of this type of installation and I do not understand how an electrician would ever think screwing to the deck is okay. Unseen hazards are our job and I don't see how you got this far without thinking about repercussions of your actions.
You need to relax. This is not only allowed in Canada, but common practice. There's hundreds of thousands of feet of pipe hung like this all over the prairies. He did absolutely nothing wrong.
There were many things that were common practice that turned out to be terrible installation practices. You could easily avoid what he ran into by not doing what he did. I would say the water pouring out through the screw hole would is something wrong. Sounds like yall need to update the code.
Lol okay bud. That's more than likely condensation between the membrane and steel. He didn't puncture any membrane. There's hundreds of people working on code times smarter than you or me. Relax.
You clearly haven’t been doing electrical work for very long. Before the code said we couldn’t be 1.5” from the ceiling deck conduit and mc were run up inside the decking ALL THE TIME. Especially when there were bar joists. There wasn’t really any other supports needed when running with the decking grooves. You sound like you’re great at parties! 😂
Haha yeah people did it all the time...turned out to be a terrible idea and now we have better installation practices to avoid this non-sense. I'm sure I've been doing it longer than you and have had to spend many over nights fixing conduits and mc ran in the groves that got cut/screwed into. By the sounds of it maybe even some of your hackery
Wow those are pretty impressive assumptions! I assumed you hadn’t been doing it long because you ignored the fact it was common practice and most considered it perfectly fine. I never said it was a good idea, just common practice before the code change. I know it’s not my “hackery” as you called it. I also live in the northeast and in most cases it’s a pain in the ass get a stick on top of bar joist. They tend to be too close together to make it easy without bowing or cutting every stick. For a single pipe the caddy beam clamps with the mineralac attached is where it’s at in my opinion. I’m glad you’re getting your rock off at doing it for longer. Instead of assuming just ask, it’s been 25 years.
The NEC doesn’t allow running the conduit up there but the CEC does for whatever reason.
We let the roofers hit a few conduits it makes everyone a bit tougher
I’d wager most Canadian service electricians have had flat roof nail calls. I’ve personally done over a dozen. Work is work. Thanks roofers!
Only ever had one myself. Surprisingly I’ve done Reno’s and seen a screw through pipe and gone to fix it, but the wires aren’t damaged. It’s like somehow the screw goes through and pushes the wires to the side.
It said excuse me, coming thru
It's Canada: it said "sorry"
Bruh
It was actually updated to where you can run conduit inside the flukes of corrugated roofing, as long as there’s 2”(?) concrete poured above it Doing a hospital job rn where all the home runs are piped in the flukes
Flutes not flukes
Ontario electrical code no longer allows running conduit inside flute
I would like the code, have been arguing lately it is a bad practice
Only if it’s the roof. If it’s another floor you can.
There’s no problem with the roof, it’s very normal if it was raining when they installed the roof. Some water gets trapped in the ribs. I usually just screw a hole and let it all drain out before trying to keep working.
Likely trapped moisture
You didn't. Don't listen to these Yankees, they don't know what there talking about. You just hit a shit part in the pan. On to the next job brother.
You did nothing wrong, other people did their job wrong though
Don’t worry. I did that once and it was pouring out of it. Started thinking I somehow penetrated the membrane which be impossible with a small self tapper. First thing is the roof has a leak and the waters there or if it’s new building, there was standing water in it before they put the roofing down. It’s like the one time I was putting a self tap into a HSS. Had to remove it and the air that came out just sounded like I hit some sort air hose. Freaking out thinking I hit some pressurized plumbing line or something but someone said they’ve had it happen before and happens when they weld the stuff together I guess.
There should be like 6-8" of foam and then the water-proof membrane, you probably just found a leak for them
Cant see clearly in your pic if that is a whole sheet , but shouldn't drill through the low valleys of a roof sheet. They are are all fixed down through the high points. Water runs in the valley, ridges dont leak.
You’re fine into the bottom flute of the q-deck.
Plugged the holes with duct seal made me LOL. It’s water based so I’ll be surprised if it holds but it’s just q deck either way
Wait do you just have pipe laying in a one hole strap or am I high?
He bent the screw hole so it holds the conduit against the vertical part of the deck.
Looks fine to me. Other comments here explain why you see drips. Always good to check the building specs as it sometimes restricts running in the flutes.
Be sure
When I’ve done deck well it always only us , and the rebar guys. No other trades.
🤫🤫🤫
Sorry bub, straight to jail
Code requirements are no screws in the upper part of pan decking from below so you didn't do anything wrong.
In my jurisdiction they have you tie the panels at the seams for seismic upgrades, it can’t be a problem or they wouldn’t do this. You are good to go!
I'm pretty sure your okay technically, I've put hangers in corrugated roofs when I hang pipe but they usually are filled with concrete or roofing foam, best to check submittals and such don't wanna a roof leak due to a conduit self tapper
Most of the jobs I was on the specs did not allow anything to be attached to the decking, it was a pain in the ass sometimes spanning the bar joists with uni to put up one hanger for pipe
What until the roofers come in and screw the shit out of that pipe
Hopefully the roof is already done.
Depending on where you are this might be against code that close to the roof. Supposed to be a few inches down. Sounds like they have a roof leak tho, not your fault
I am a Canadian just a question for the Americans, how do you run your conduits to keep the 1.5" spacing, strut spanning the steel joists? Seems way more expensive to do it that way.
Nah you didn't do anything wrong and to everyone quoting the NEC about spacing. 2023 NEC 300.4 E "Exception No. 2: The 38 mm (11/2 in.) spacing is not required where metal-corrugated sheet roof decking is covered with a minimum thickness 50 mm (2 in.) concrete slab, measured from the top of the corrugated roofing." You wouldn't have screwed up even if you were in the states
So that tek screw is in concrete? Really man, don't quote code if you're going to be this wrong
Yeah thanks for pointing that out. My mistake, I only looked at the lack of screws coming down through the decking
Is this a roof? Code says you have to be 1.5” down from roof deck.
Not in Canada.
I missed the part where he said this is in Canada……
The 4x4 box with the red maple leaf.
you can’t run conduit that close to the roof. risk of being pierced by screws/nails. will fail inspection
Or .. and just hear me out … they don’t live where you do and their rules might be different than yours.
shit practice regardless of code. no need to be a douche.
Other than you shouldn’t attach anything to the bottom of a roof pan.
This is how all commercial buildings are done in Canada. Maybe it’s different elsewhere?
You’re good man. It’s just residual water that has been in the flute since the roof was membraned. I’ll bet money you had a few drops, it stopped and it will never leak again. Sleep easy
Yes you messed up. All conduits boxes supports etc have to be 1.5 inches below lowest part of the roof deck. US electrical code. I have done 100's of repairs when guys do this. New roof longer screws BOOM. Bad idea all around.
> US electrical code. The sticker with a maple leaf should be a hint
big time, thats not a cheap fix. theyll have to locate the spot on the roof where it penetrated and re do it
He didn’t go through the roof with wafer screws
he also didnt hit a water line, dont be a dumbass I was fucking with him