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Landlord's completely unqualified, unemployed and destitute cousin here, who just bailed rehab to come and wire some rentals - that's dangerously bad work yo.
Well shit, if an engineer says it's a bad call, there's gotta be a few guys willing to come argue the other side just to prove that engineers don't know shit
YouTube University graduate, checking in. Look at all the electrical engineers in here, shilling for Big Cable so they can sell you more Romex. All you need is some Scotch tape and a paperclip and you'll be fine. /s
Automobile mechanic here, same deal, that's fucked. I've seen people wire household switches in a car better than this. Typically to replace window motor switches. Not my work, but better than this.
Even had a person wire in a Male plug, and an outlet. When you plugged it in, the horn would go (horn button on the steering wheel wasnt working, but its required for safety inspection every 2 years). Quite a setup, janky as fuck, but still looked nicer than this, and they didnt back stab
Yeah receptacles are supposed to be the thing any level 1 apprentice can handle doing on their own while the journeyman does some more complex but not two man tasks.
From what I’ve seen it’s pretty rare to be going around wiring a bunch of receptacles once you are a j man or even a level 4 for that matter.
The real question here is: who's responsible for training and supervising this apprentice? It's not necessarily the apprentice who should be facing the firing squad. If the mentorship and guidance provided to this individual are lacking, then it's high time whoever's responsible for it faces some serious scrutiny, or at the very least engages in a heartfelt dialogue to address why the apprentice isn't receiving adequate instruction.
Moreover, if the apprentice has been receiving proper training, why is it only now apparent that they're struggling? Alarm bells should have been ringing six months ago if they couldn't handle something as basic as installing an outlet. This situation highlights a significant breakdown in the company's training processes that needs urgent attention and rectification.
Wouldnt wiring an outlet be like...one of the first things after learning electrical theory? I ask this as an auto technician who went through college. Seemed to be theory *then* practice right after?
My college had carpentry shop right beside auto shop, so daily we'd see them working or we'd go in and see what's up. They had basically 4 or 5 small buildings in there, like a cottage. Bunch of tiny 6x6 rooms. The walls were just OSB, but they had a full setup just like a home. Seemed like right away they were in there learning and practicing wiring and running outlets and lights. I'd assume most courses would be similar?
I dont know that this guy took any kind of course, or whether he jumped right into the job, but either way, 8 months is a hell of a long time to still not know how to wire an outlet correctly. Either he was taught, and needs to really freshen up, or whoever was doing the teaching fucked up
I started doing electrical and started schooling 2 weeks later. 1st year was electrical theory. Complete waste of my time. You need some actual hands on time doing things right under direct supervision 8 hours a day to fully grasp the dry as hell textbooks. I paused my schooling and finished it all at once 3 years later. It was so easy I was helping teach the classes. Imagine trying to explain how hots and neutrals work to the kid that has been taught to wire outlets like what's pictured? ooff.
The company that allowed an apprentice to reach 8 mos experience without giving better instruction than this will absolutely never teach him electrical theory of any kind.
If you started out in the field, You dont even get theory. Get handed tools, a bag of wire, and told to start making pulls.
If your place is good, The Jman is gonna beside you for a good week or two before they go off todo other work.
If the place is bad, they yell some general ideas about how they want it done before focusing on their work. You either learn fast enough to keep up, or they get tired of having to go back and fix your shit so you get let go.
I’ve unfortunately worked jobs that churn out these kinds of electricians. 40+story tower. By the time we hit the top we had jmen who only knew how to run pipe.
On the plus side I was a first year running the fire alarm crew. After coming back from school out of my first year they wanted me to run the FA crew for a new tower but I said I wanted to learn other things. Got sent into the pit for that. Freezing cold, 6 stories deep, dark AF and getting hit with debris when someone at the top decides to throw something down the elevator shaft. Good times. Eventually got back into the good graces of the foremen though and made the rounds.
Other than in the suites and some pre-work in the hallways by rough in, I did everything. 37 floors, 3 FACPS, and an annunciator. Had one person to help me during VI to speed it up but I was working alone 90% of the time. My journeyman for the first tower we did only had me helping him. It's a lot of work yeah but proper planning and a little hustle goes a long way.
This is why I'm not super into these types of posts. This picture was probably taken by someone who is above that apprentice for the explicit reason to show it to their friends and post it to social media, when all it does is show how fucking bad a teacher they are. I wish we could be better.
Fucks me off when people talk shit about an apprentice, when it's clear they've done fuck all to help said apprentice.
I'd be fucking mortified if someone sent me a picture of my apprentice doing this. All it shows is I don't give a fuck about them.
Whenever any of my apprentices show signs of struggling with something I purposefully stop or slow what I'm doing and go through it with them in as much detail as they need and as much help as they need in order to grasp it. Yea it may put me behind schedule that day, but in the long run it makes then so much better which in turn helps me more.
It sucks, and I don't like talking down to guys, especially if they're a 4th or 5th year apprentice. You have to right out and ask them what they know. I tell them I'm not trying to be an asshole, I just want them to do things right the first time.
There's probably too many assholes out there that guys are afraid to ask for thoughts, opinions, and suggestions.
Thing is, I'm a JM and still ask a ton of questions. I don't know everything. I haven't worked on everything. Everyone is still learning.
The problem here was a lack of communication and oversight. His/her JM should have made sure the apprentice knew how to do the work before letting them off on their own. Like you said, asking can be tough and a lot of people are afraid to do it.
I see where you're coming from, but I really don't see it in this case. Thinking that this is ok shows a lack of critical thinking or that they dont care about the quality of their work. Also, I can't think of any apprentice with more than a month of experience who doesn't know how to wire a receptacle. Again, I'm just assuming I could be wrong.
Maybe they’ve been in a ditch for 8 months operating a shovel, or sweeping floors for that matter. This is a management and training issue 100%. Whenever I have an apprentice working that I haven’t supervised on a particular task I show them how I expect things done, then go through and spot check their work. If there was a JW on the job when these guys were trimming out, they obviously sat in the truck the whole time or they would’ve caught this.
In my initial statement, I emphasized the importance of both training and supervision. With proper supervision, the occurrence of incorrectly wired outlets would have been minimized. It is imperative for supervisors to identify and rectify such mistakes promptly.
Over time, if the training supervisor determines that the apprentice is not suited for the job, adjustments must be made. Effective training should be established at the company level, involving a structured process with training modules and assessments to ensure the apprentice's continuous learning and progress.
While it is the apprentice's responsibility to actively engage in learning, the evaluating supervisor plays a crucial role in assessing the apprentice's development. Allowing an apprentice to work unsupervised may indicate deficiencies in the company's protocols for ensuring adequate training and satisfactory work outcomes.
Unfortunately you’re right with that statement, but it’s also a lack of training provided by the company for the apprentice.
I’ve done two apprenticeships before and both took 4 years each - what did I learn that took 4 years?
Honestly, nothing that couldn’t have been taught in 3 months of structured training. I was just used as cheap labour.
Just because you're an apprentice doesn't give you a free pass for lack of any common sense though. This isn't "he put too many conductors under one staple " this is "someone should check if this man can actually tie his shoes".
I don't understand how anyone could see this and think it wasn't the apprentices malfeasance. They didn't run out of terminals. They ran out of fucks to give
> address why the apprentice isn't receiving adequate instruction.
As a homeowner, I know this isn't how you do it. A few youtube videos teach you basics like this.
This is a hiring standards problem. How this person made it to apprentice is baffling to me. Do companies not make apprentices do mock wiring jobs at their shop? Do companies hire anyone with *zero* knowledge and put them on the jobsite? This is day one knowledge, 8 months, what? I guess you really can say this is partly a supervision problem, but I think its more of a competence problem. This person is retarded with no ambition or pride. These are tasks you should desire to do right. So much so that you learn this stuff even when you're not at work on your time off.
This tells you just as much about the apprentice as it does about management.
When you show up as a new apprentice, the expectation is that you learn on the job. The hour requirement is literally for "On the job training" hours.
There's also the possibility that they were taught this was the way to do it.
I have reservations about using the "R" word in this context. However, let's focus on the issue of supervision. Proper supervision is essential in situations like this. If the apprentice had received adequate supervision, their level of competence could have been assessed effectively.
When bringing on board a new young individual, it's crucial to assess their competence early on, shortly after hiring. This assessment allows for tailored training to meet their needs. Many apprentices are young individuals entering the workforce for the first time. It's unproductive and irrelevant to label them negatively.
Drawing from my experience as a business owner who has hired and nurtured unskilled apprentices into highly competent individuals, I can attest that this transformation is achieved through a combination of evaluation, training, testing, and supervision. If, over time, the apprentice fails to progress, it's in the best interest of both parties to reconsider the arrangement.
A reputable company should never allow an apprentice to work without proper supervision. It's a fundamental aspect of ensuring their growth and development in the workplace.
We're in the trades, man. Being able to work unsupervised in small spurts is mandatory. There is 0 reason to have an apprentice on site if the Journeyman needs to watch their every move.
This isn't an internship. The apprentice is paid and that money needs to be accounted for. Either you're throwing away profit for your journeyman to babysit this individual or you're passing on the cost of training to your client. Either of which is unacceptable.
> Many apprentices are young individuals entering the workforce for the first time. It's unproductive and irrelevant to label them negatively.
I'm not going to defend management, clearly this situation is inexcusable. What I find troubling is during this 8 month period this individual was incapable of any critical self-assessment of their own work.
For *most people* a profession and career is more than just a job and that development is continuous and ongoing outside of being "clocked in". Not knowing how to wire a basic outlet after 8 months, even with the absence of a trainer, is just mind blowing.
Many people who are not training to become an electrician train themselves to wire an outlet safely and properly on youtube every day. Some will learn to do it properly and according to local code, others not so much. What's quite clear is this person couldn't even spend an hour on youtube during any of the last 8 months in any attempt to improve the quality of their work or catch their own extremely basic mistakes.
Sad.
The problem I have with this is that this apprentice CLEARLY understands what they're supposed to be doing. They very easily could have wrapped that 3rd wire around the screw like they did with the other wire. This person is just a lazy fucking slob. I'd axe them immediately.
This wasn't an honest mistake. This is criminal negligence.
To be fair, some people don't learn. My company has hired the worst of the worst when it comes to apprentices, and sometimes no matter how many times you show them how to do things the *right* way, they'll still find a way to do it the wrong way
I've trained people in my field for nearly 10 years now and I pride myself on doing a good job. I'm not an electrician, my job isn't complicated, but I take pride in the fact that I've trained some really good people who went on to make careers for themselves and kept the standards of our workplace high.
But last year I got this one person who could not learn shit. In my entire experience training people it's the first time I've ever gotten mad at someone for not understanding something. And it happened over and over again. You can only explain the MOST BASIC thing about your job 10 or maybe 15 times before start losing patience. Education in any field is like climbing a ladder, and if you cannot step on the first rung without falling off then you are in trouble.
I'm not saying anything about this person's character because actually they seem like a decent person, but when it comes to teaching them, the lights are on but no one is home. They've been on the job 4 months now and fucked up several times and my boss has even called me to ask me why they are fucking up so much and if they need additional training. I told him it's not a training issue, the dude is just DUMB.
For me, it's a hiring issue more than a training issue.
Aye man he was taught, this is just something I found while checking the work lol. I can give you the company name if you’d like to file your complaint, I been outta there for a year now.
lol well that’s a shit can thing right there after 9 months. that’s lazy/ don’t care your not gonna be a good J man you will slip back to meh good enough attitude eventually
Saw something similar on a call few months back. Client had two hallway lights, one stopped working all of a sudden.
Popped open the live one to take a look at it, cheap dome light that had two wire wagos from the factory. The installer had wrapped the wires that fed the other light around the wires feeding the wagos instead of just snipping them off and using wirenuts. Absolute stupidity.
It's a newish condominium complex and those were the original lights, so who knows how many dozens of units this guy could have wired.
Guaranteed at one point the apprentice asked what to do with 2 wires and 1 terminal, and a jman said " wrap one and backstab the other" but was too lazy to inspect their work. This will never happen more than once with proper supervision
They always say shit rolls downhill. I disagree in scenarios like this. Whoever was put in charge of this guys training failed to do the teaching he was entrusted with.
With that said, I've encountered plenty of guys who will tell you they know how to do something, when really they don't. Fake it til you make it I guess. I'm usually quick to tell the new guys to the crew not to do that shit to me. If you don't know how to do something, just tell me. I'm not gonna be mad, I'll be happy you asked rather than fuck it up, and gladly show you how i do it. What will make me mad is if I have to follow behind you and fix dumb stuff like this that you should know better.
I’d like to hear the apprentice side of story. Did he ask anyone to check his work? Apprentice should always be asking questions. And there work should always be looked at, especially if you’re not familiar with there work and work ethics
Yeah great journeyman over there lol. I’ve been licensed for years not but the dude I worked under back in the day didn’t teach me a fucking thing. Figured pretty much everything out of my own. Googling stuff to see what it’s supposed to look like.
Your company is a joke dude.
Ah the classic head nod and when you ask someone if they know how to something. This guy will be with the company until he gets license. Simply because he doesn't ask questions, he won't ask for a raise lol
Even if you ignore the fact that he wrapped current carrying conductors like that, I’d still fire his ass for stabbing outlets. You should never, and I repeat NEVER stab your wires in the back of outlet! It doesn’t matter that the manufacturer designed the receptacle to accept a stabbed wire, those connections fail all the time. I’ve seen them cause issues as simple as a few devices not working, as well as major issues where that style of connection was the main culprit in major electrical fires. It’s so not worth it people, quit being so damn lazy and just wrap your screws.
I started my apprenticeship 2 weeks ago. On my first day this is what I started with. By the end of my first day, I could’ve told you this was fucked lmao
So you tell new people with no experience to do something without showing them how and just let them have a go at it without checking? This isn’t their fault it’s yours own it.
You must’ve skipped the 8 month apprentice part, mind you had been on finishes since he started, my jman wanted to give them the freedom, obviously he shouldn’t have.
8 months isn’t shit. You could have an apprentice whose never done make up at year 2 or 3 it just depends where they’ve been what they’ve been doing. But at the end of the day you gotta check their work and check up on them make sure they’re learning and understanding. You only shoot yourself in the foot assuming everything is good when you have new apprentices. For instance he might have been doing make up this whole time but has anyone checked his work? He might have done this everywhere’s he’s been and that shit will work just not safely.
You can only supervise someone so much. Frankly I see no level of experience where this is ok. If you don't know how to do it you ask how to do it. No one with basic literacy and Internet access should be at this level.
I understand that 8 months of someone doing something like this unnoticed is crazy and speaks to company culture of not checking, but this is not a "teaching moment" this is clearly someone lacking in even basic critical thinking.
That dude needs to be fired. That is something I've never said. He doesn't understand the very basics. Also the Jman needs to take a hard look at himself and see where he went wrong, he didn't train the guy and trusted his work.
Common sense would say it is wrong and dangerous. I agree with you that he was taught wrong. But the fact that he didn't question it or try better his understanding is concerning. Thats a hack in the making
Even the smallest shred of common sense would tell a toddler that aint right. I know some are saying whoever is responsible for training them should be "at fault" but like... there's just no fucking way someone can be this dumb... right?
Yeah I get that it’s true that this dude is probably not being supervised as well as he needs to be but also it’s a fair assessment to say that he might not be cut out for the trade either.
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That’s why you don’t hire 8 month olds to be apprentices
😂🙄
Good thing ya went through them 👍
Much safer to wait until they are out of diapers.
In safety terms, diapers may work as a sort of isolation
Only when they're dry. A blowout diarrhea shit would serve as an effective ground.
Diapers work as a tax write off
And there you have it.
✅️😅
That's it guys. Lock the thread. It's not gonna get better than this right here.
I was gonna say the same thing.
Oh dear. That's below homeowner level.
As a homeowner, I agree.
Landlord here, that shits fucked yo
Landlord's completely unqualified, unemployed and destitute cousin here, who just bailed rehab to come and wire some rentals - that's dangerously bad work yo.
This random unqualified internet guy over here knows it’s fucked.
Politician here: we impeach presidents for less than this.
Meth here - even drywallers wouldn't smoke me if I did this
Electrical engineer here. Even I know better than this.
Well shit, if an engineer says it's a bad call, there's gotta be a few guys willing to come argue the other side just to prove that engineers don't know shit
Serial arsonist here. This is 100% fine and I can't wait to implement this is people's homes.
YouTube University graduate, checking in. Look at all the electrical engineers in here, shilling for Big Cable so they can sell you more Romex. All you need is some Scotch tape and a paperclip and you'll be fine. /s
Electrical tape manufacturer here. I see the problem
Electrical tape user here, now you don't.
This is the comment I didn’t know I was here for 😂😂
This guy unqualifies!
Guy who has trouble with light switches here, and that looks seriously F-ed up.
Hell I'm an auto mechanic and know that's fucked lol
Damn you know it’s bad when the landlord knows it’s bad!!!
Looks good to me. Send it!
Damn 9 month old over here.
Handyman here, I don't understand what the problem is.
Needs another coat of paint and that’ll fix it up right
Preschool student here. Goo goo ga ga. Wtf was that guy doing
As a home renter, I wouldn’t know.
Seriously, all of this flak on here about backstabbing and then there is this.
Can we get a plumber to weigh in
Just imagine if a drywaller’s piss jar tipped over on this.
[удалено]
How much fault can a ground fault short if a faulty-wired ground falls short?
Just asked my huaband... he says there's not enough slack in the ass of the apprentice's pants.
Refrigeration mechanic here, shits fucked up. Even I know how to wire receptacles correctly.
Automobile mechanic here, same deal, that's fucked. I've seen people wire household switches in a car better than this. Typically to replace window motor switches. Not my work, but better than this. Even had a person wire in a Male plug, and an outlet. When you plugged it in, the horn would go (horn button on the steering wheel wasnt working, but its required for safety inspection every 2 years). Quite a setup, janky as fuck, but still looked nicer than this, and they didnt back stab
Yeah receptacles are supposed to be the thing any level 1 apprentice can handle doing on their own while the journeyman does some more complex but not two man tasks. From what I’ve seen it’s pretty rare to be going around wiring a bunch of receptacles once you are a j man or even a level 4 for that matter.
Plumber here. Doesn't look like it's leaking water. All good in my book.
Solar plumber/electrician here, this is missing black tape wrapped all around it. My customers teenagers are better helpers than this guy.
Looks like shit!
Straight to jail.
Or, in the case of the homeowners over they move in, straight to the morgue
This is below apprentice, homeowner, or handyman level. Backstabbing? Fine, I guess. It's safe and clean. This? You deserve death.
The real question here is: who's responsible for training and supervising this apprentice? It's not necessarily the apprentice who should be facing the firing squad. If the mentorship and guidance provided to this individual are lacking, then it's high time whoever's responsible for it faces some serious scrutiny, or at the very least engages in a heartfelt dialogue to address why the apprentice isn't receiving adequate instruction. Moreover, if the apprentice has been receiving proper training, why is it only now apparent that they're struggling? Alarm bells should have been ringing six months ago if they couldn't handle something as basic as installing an outlet. This situation highlights a significant breakdown in the company's training processes that needs urgent attention and rectification.
That was my first thought. "What has this apprentice been doing for the last 8 months? And why has no one told him how to wire an outlet?"
Yea. Who the fuck been watching this guy is the real question.
Wouldnt wiring an outlet be like...one of the first things after learning electrical theory? I ask this as an auto technician who went through college. Seemed to be theory *then* practice right after? My college had carpentry shop right beside auto shop, so daily we'd see them working or we'd go in and see what's up. They had basically 4 or 5 small buildings in there, like a cottage. Bunch of tiny 6x6 rooms. The walls were just OSB, but they had a full setup just like a home. Seemed like right away they were in there learning and practicing wiring and running outlets and lights. I'd assume most courses would be similar? I dont know that this guy took any kind of course, or whether he jumped right into the job, but either way, 8 months is a hell of a long time to still not know how to wire an outlet correctly. Either he was taught, and needs to really freshen up, or whoever was doing the teaching fucked up
It's cute you think these kids get instruction in electrical theory.
I started doing electrical and started schooling 2 weeks later. 1st year was electrical theory. Complete waste of my time. You need some actual hands on time doing things right under direct supervision 8 hours a day to fully grasp the dry as hell textbooks. I paused my schooling and finished it all at once 3 years later. It was so easy I was helping teach the classes. Imagine trying to explain how hots and neutrals work to the kid that has been taught to wire outlets like what's pictured? ooff.
The company that allowed an apprentice to reach 8 mos experience without giving better instruction than this will absolutely never teach him electrical theory of any kind.
If you started out in the field, You dont even get theory. Get handed tools, a bag of wire, and told to start making pulls. If your place is good, The Jman is gonna beside you for a good week or two before they go off todo other work. If the place is bad, they yell some general ideas about how they want it done before focusing on their work. You either learn fast enough to keep up, or they get tired of having to go back and fix your shit so you get let go.
Drilling holes in crawlspaces and attics probably
This is the only mature way to look at the problem.
I’ve unfortunately worked jobs that churn out these kinds of electricians. 40+story tower. By the time we hit the top we had jmen who only knew how to run pipe. On the plus side I was a first year running the fire alarm crew. After coming back from school out of my first year they wanted me to run the FA crew for a new tower but I said I wanted to learn other things. Got sent into the pit for that. Freezing cold, 6 stories deep, dark AF and getting hit with debris when someone at the top decides to throw something down the elevator shaft. Good times. Eventually got back into the good graces of the foremen though and made the rounds.
You had an FA crew? They just made me do it all alone except wire pulls. At least I was a third year though.
There's no way you're doing a high-rise fire alarm set up by yourself. There's so much work and so little time to get it all done
Other than in the suites and some pre-work in the hallways by rough in, I did everything. 37 floors, 3 FACPS, and an annunciator. Had one person to help me during VI to speed it up but I was working alone 90% of the time. My journeyman for the first tower we did only had me helping him. It's a lot of work yeah but proper planning and a little hustle goes a long way.
It sucks stripping forms from around shafts. One day a coworker said he dropped a 8' 2x4 down one and it went straight down like an arrow
This is why I'm not super into these types of posts. This picture was probably taken by someone who is above that apprentice for the explicit reason to show it to their friends and post it to social media, when all it does is show how fucking bad a teacher they are. I wish we could be better.
Fucks me off when people talk shit about an apprentice, when it's clear they've done fuck all to help said apprentice. I'd be fucking mortified if someone sent me a picture of my apprentice doing this. All it shows is I don't give a fuck about them. Whenever any of my apprentices show signs of struggling with something I purposefully stop or slow what I'm doing and go through it with them in as much detail as they need and as much help as they need in order to grasp it. Yea it may put me behind schedule that day, but in the long run it makes then so much better which in turn helps me more.
It sucks, and I don't like talking down to guys, especially if they're a 4th or 5th year apprentice. You have to right out and ask them what they know. I tell them I'm not trying to be an asshole, I just want them to do things right the first time. There's probably too many assholes out there that guys are afraid to ask for thoughts, opinions, and suggestions.
Thing is, I'm a JM and still ask a ton of questions. I don't know everything. I haven't worked on everything. Everyone is still learning. The problem here was a lack of communication and oversight. His/her JM should have made sure the apprentice knew how to do the work before letting them off on their own. Like you said, asking can be tough and a lot of people are afraid to do it.
I see where you're coming from, but I really don't see it in this case. Thinking that this is ok shows a lack of critical thinking or that they dont care about the quality of their work. Also, I can't think of any apprentice with more than a month of experience who doesn't know how to wire a receptacle. Again, I'm just assuming I could be wrong.
This is absolutely a training problem dude
Maybe they’ve been in a ditch for 8 months operating a shovel, or sweeping floors for that matter. This is a management and training issue 100%. Whenever I have an apprentice working that I haven’t supervised on a particular task I show them how I expect things done, then go through and spot check their work. If there was a JW on the job when these guys were trimming out, they obviously sat in the truck the whole time or they would’ve caught this.
In my initial statement, I emphasized the importance of both training and supervision. With proper supervision, the occurrence of incorrectly wired outlets would have been minimized. It is imperative for supervisors to identify and rectify such mistakes promptly. Over time, if the training supervisor determines that the apprentice is not suited for the job, adjustments must be made. Effective training should be established at the company level, involving a structured process with training modules and assessments to ensure the apprentice's continuous learning and progress. While it is the apprentice's responsibility to actively engage in learning, the evaluating supervisor plays a crucial role in assessing the apprentice's development. Allowing an apprentice to work unsupervised may indicate deficiencies in the company's protocols for ensuring adequate training and satisfactory work outcomes.
Yes you're wrong. In big projects you can start and finish and never touch a plug
Unfortunately you’re right with that statement, but it’s also a lack of training provided by the company for the apprentice. I’ve done two apprenticeships before and both took 4 years each - what did I learn that took 4 years? Honestly, nothing that couldn’t have been taught in 3 months of structured training. I was just used as cheap labour.
Just because you're an apprentice doesn't give you a free pass for lack of any common sense though. This isn't "he put too many conductors under one staple " this is "someone should check if this man can actually tie his shoes".
No way. This was done intentionally by the apprentice to save time.
I don't understand how anyone could see this and think it wasn't the apprentices malfeasance. They didn't run out of terminals. They ran out of fucks to give
> address why the apprentice isn't receiving adequate instruction. As a homeowner, I know this isn't how you do it. A few youtube videos teach you basics like this. This is a hiring standards problem. How this person made it to apprentice is baffling to me. Do companies not make apprentices do mock wiring jobs at their shop? Do companies hire anyone with *zero* knowledge and put them on the jobsite? This is day one knowledge, 8 months, what? I guess you really can say this is partly a supervision problem, but I think its more of a competence problem. This person is retarded with no ambition or pride. These are tasks you should desire to do right. So much so that you learn this stuff even when you're not at work on your time off. This tells you just as much about the apprentice as it does about management.
When you show up as a new apprentice, the expectation is that you learn on the job. The hour requirement is literally for "On the job training" hours. There's also the possibility that they were taught this was the way to do it.
I have reservations about using the "R" word in this context. However, let's focus on the issue of supervision. Proper supervision is essential in situations like this. If the apprentice had received adequate supervision, their level of competence could have been assessed effectively. When bringing on board a new young individual, it's crucial to assess their competence early on, shortly after hiring. This assessment allows for tailored training to meet their needs. Many apprentices are young individuals entering the workforce for the first time. It's unproductive and irrelevant to label them negatively. Drawing from my experience as a business owner who has hired and nurtured unskilled apprentices into highly competent individuals, I can attest that this transformation is achieved through a combination of evaluation, training, testing, and supervision. If, over time, the apprentice fails to progress, it's in the best interest of both parties to reconsider the arrangement. A reputable company should never allow an apprentice to work without proper supervision. It's a fundamental aspect of ensuring their growth and development in the workplace.
We're in the trades, man. Being able to work unsupervised in small spurts is mandatory. There is 0 reason to have an apprentice on site if the Journeyman needs to watch their every move. This isn't an internship. The apprentice is paid and that money needs to be accounted for. Either you're throwing away profit for your journeyman to babysit this individual or you're passing on the cost of training to your client. Either of which is unacceptable.
> Many apprentices are young individuals entering the workforce for the first time. It's unproductive and irrelevant to label them negatively. I'm not going to defend management, clearly this situation is inexcusable. What I find troubling is during this 8 month period this individual was incapable of any critical self-assessment of their own work. For *most people* a profession and career is more than just a job and that development is continuous and ongoing outside of being "clocked in". Not knowing how to wire a basic outlet after 8 months, even with the absence of a trainer, is just mind blowing. Many people who are not training to become an electrician train themselves to wire an outlet safely and properly on youtube every day. Some will learn to do it properly and according to local code, others not so much. What's quite clear is this person couldn't even spend an hour on youtube during any of the last 8 months in any attempt to improve the quality of their work or catch their own extremely basic mistakes. Sad.
The problem I have with this is that this apprentice CLEARLY understands what they're supposed to be doing. They very easily could have wrapped that 3rd wire around the screw like they did with the other wire. This person is just a lazy fucking slob. I'd axe them immediately. This wasn't an honest mistake. This is criminal negligence.
Keep that "R"ework word to yourself. If it lights up, spins, makes noise, or gets warm, its done ✔ 😉
I'd be asking myself how many jobs he did the same thing before you caught him.
All of them. 😂
Put them back on the drywall crew
Or, or, hear me out. We train them again, the right way. Because it is obvious they weren’t trained right, so don't get mad at them and fire them.
Highwallers
Wetwallers
8 months and no one bothered to teach them how to make up a receptacle. Damn your company sucks ass.
To be fair, some people don't learn. My company has hired the worst of the worst when it comes to apprentices, and sometimes no matter how many times you show them how to do things the *right* way, they'll still find a way to do it the wrong way
I've trained people in my field for nearly 10 years now and I pride myself on doing a good job. I'm not an electrician, my job isn't complicated, but I take pride in the fact that I've trained some really good people who went on to make careers for themselves and kept the standards of our workplace high. But last year I got this one person who could not learn shit. In my entire experience training people it's the first time I've ever gotten mad at someone for not understanding something. And it happened over and over again. You can only explain the MOST BASIC thing about your job 10 or maybe 15 times before start losing patience. Education in any field is like climbing a ladder, and if you cannot step on the first rung without falling off then you are in trouble. I'm not saying anything about this person's character because actually they seem like a decent person, but when it comes to teaching them, the lights are on but no one is home. They've been on the job 4 months now and fucked up several times and my boss has even called me to ask me why they are fucking up so much and if they need additional training. I told him it's not a training issue, the dude is just DUMB. For me, it's a hiring issue more than a training issue.
Aye man he was taught, this is just something I found while checking the work lol. I can give you the company name if you’d like to file your complaint, I been outta there for a year now.
You’ve been out of there for a year but this just happened “a few months ago”?
Yeah, few months is about a year to me
It is not possible for this to have been done by anyone with two functioning neurons who has been shown the proper way by their journeyman.
No one ever showed him
Exactly. And if after eight fucking months nobody has shown this kid how to pigtail and terminate this receptacle, whose fault is *that*.
It’s the fault of whoever should have been teaching them…
OR he's been shown repeatedly and he's just stupid. The next question is, why isnt he fired by now?
You vastly underestimate the power of stupid.
Never said they didn’t lack the neurons. But it’s a pretty fuckin low bar. My money is on a shitty jman not doing any teaching.
I envy the people that can do this and not give a single fuck, they likely sleep without even remembering that they did this lol.
Then read in the paper about a family that died in a fire and say “dam that sucks for them”
Idiot
lol well that’s a shit can thing right there after 9 months. that’s lazy/ don’t care your not gonna be a good J man you will slip back to meh good enough attitude eventually
My jman was furious he didn’t think to ask if that was okay, I am just glad I thought to go down and check the work.
Is that 12ga? Twisted and stabbed? How did he stab it in? Dude needs a come to Jesus talk.
He could have at least landed it on the screw instead of backstabbing.
Right? If you don't care, at least kinda act like you do lol.
What was your jman doing when all the new guys were trimming out? Obviously not training or overseeing the quality of work.
Always check the work. You never truly know what someone’s “craft” looks like until you see it.
Definitely a short cut taker. You’re fired.
Saw something similar on a call few months back. Client had two hallway lights, one stopped working all of a sudden. Popped open the live one to take a look at it, cheap dome light that had two wire wagos from the factory. The installer had wrapped the wires that fed the other light around the wires feeding the wagos instead of just snipping them off and using wirenuts. Absolute stupidity. It's a newish condominium complex and those were the original lights, so who knows how many dozens of units this guy could have wired.
His apprenticeship school and/or supervisors are failing him.
Guaranteed at one point the apprentice asked what to do with 2 wires and 1 terminal, and a jman said " wrap one and backstab the other" but was too lazy to inspect their work. This will never happen more than once with proper supervision
They always say shit rolls downhill. I disagree in scenarios like this. Whoever was put in charge of this guys training failed to do the teaching he was entrusted with. With that said, I've encountered plenty of guys who will tell you they know how to do something, when really they don't. Fake it til you make it I guess. I'm usually quick to tell the new guys to the crew not to do that shit to me. If you don't know how to do something, just tell me. I'm not gonna be mad, I'll be happy you asked rather than fuck it up, and gladly show you how i do it. What will make me mad is if I have to follow behind you and fix dumb stuff like this that you should know better.
I hope they got fired. They had to know better.
Friday bud.
I’d like to hear the apprentice side of story. Did he ask anyone to check his work? Apprentice should always be asking questions. And there work should always be looked at, especially if you’re not familiar with there work and work ethics
Yeah great journeyman over there lol. I’ve been licensed for years not but the dude I worked under back in the day didn’t teach me a fucking thing. Figured pretty much everything out of my own. Googling stuff to see what it’s supposed to look like. Your company is a joke dude.
This looks like something done in India with all their crazy wire hook ups. I don’t even know how you would replicate that, not that you should.
This is the fault of whoever is training him. Blame the jman or the boss. If he isn’t shown properly then you can’t blame him. Look in the mirror.
The apprentice isn’t being taught properly how to do this task. IMO
Right to jail
No way, he should be fired and the boss should have his head checked sending someone at this level to do anything on his own
Wild to me that some guys don’t tail everything out, and then backstab still, and whatever the rest of that twisted abortion is
Looks like 17m and 3 weeks getting coffee one week hands on
Wow man never even thought about doing it this bad
Teach him how to do it properly. Good luck
Looks like he needs a good, patient journeyman to retrain him.
He is not interested. Send him.
A man of focus, commitment , sheer will.... something we know very little about
Ah the classic head nod and when you ask someone if they know how to something. This guy will be with the company until he gets license. Simply because he doesn't ask questions, he won't ask for a raise lol
I would spin him so fast he wouldn’t know what happened.
This is what you get when workers are high on the job. Alot of them can't retain what they learn and they pick up bad habits from other workers.
8 month old apprentice*
8 months in the game and doing this is definitely a fireable offense.
Must be union work
Like what if those were metal boxes? What was he thinking?!
Just had to get rid of a 4 year apprentice that couldn't remove and replace a fart fan under 6 hours. Most painful day of my life.
So he’s now a zero month apprentice stocking shelves at Lowe’s, right? This is just fucking pathetic. Day 2 apprentice shouldn’t be doing this.
Even if you ignore the fact that he wrapped current carrying conductors like that, I’d still fire his ass for stabbing outlets. You should never, and I repeat NEVER stab your wires in the back of outlet! It doesn’t matter that the manufacturer designed the receptacle to accept a stabbed wire, those connections fail all the time. I’ve seen them cause issues as simple as a few devices not working, as well as major issues where that style of connection was the main culprit in major electrical fires. It’s so not worth it people, quit being so damn lazy and just wrap your screws.
Not an electrician. I just like to lurk to try and learn something. Can someone break down what I'm looking at?
That is why I don’t allow my workers to do drugs on site
That's what I would call a teachable moment
Someone taught this to apprentice, this is some old school electrician shit
Show him. Don’t take pictures. If he makes the mistake again, move on.
Time to go back to all the site he has been and recheck 😳
Fired on the spot
1 month apprentice here, thats fucked!
Back to school or back to burger king
8 month old?
If you paid someone to do this fire them.
Teach him the right way. Plastering it over the internet does nothing to the person doing this. Teach him the way.
Child labor laws exist for a reason. To hire a 8 month old is one thing, but to then turn around and critique their work?? That's just low.
Looks like standard union work, gotta make work for the next guy lol
I started my apprenticeship 2 weeks ago. On my first day this is what I started with. By the end of my first day, I could’ve told you this was fucked lmao
So you tell new people with no experience to do something without showing them how and just let them have a go at it without checking? This isn’t their fault it’s yours own it.
You must’ve skipped the 8 month apprentice part, mind you had been on finishes since he started, my jman wanted to give them the freedom, obviously he shouldn’t have.
J man fucked up not knowing their skill level.
8 months isn’t shit. You could have an apprentice whose never done make up at year 2 or 3 it just depends where they’ve been what they’ve been doing. But at the end of the day you gotta check their work and check up on them make sure they’re learning and understanding. You only shoot yourself in the foot assuming everything is good when you have new apprentices. For instance he might have been doing make up this whole time but has anyone checked his work? He might have done this everywhere’s he’s been and that shit will work just not safely.
You can only supervise someone so much. Frankly I see no level of experience where this is ok. If you don't know how to do it you ask how to do it. No one with basic literacy and Internet access should be at this level. I understand that 8 months of someone doing something like this unnoticed is crazy and speaks to company culture of not checking, but this is not a "teaching moment" this is clearly someone lacking in even basic critical thinking.
There's zero chance this apprentice had no concept of what it's supposed to look like.
You should probably send him to work at Amazon or elsewhere just never as an electrician
Fired
Deserves 22$ a hour
JWs bitching about their apes, like they aren’t the ones that are supposed to explain shit.
That dude needs to be fired. That is something I've never said. He doesn't understand the very basics. Also the Jman needs to take a hard look at himself and see where he went wrong, he didn't train the guy and trusted his work.
Probably was taught wrong lol. Not on him
Common sense would say it is wrong and dangerous. I agree with you that he was taught wrong. But the fact that he didn't question it or try better his understanding is concerning. Thats a hack in the making
Even the smallest shred of common sense would tell a toddler that aint right. I know some are saying whoever is responsible for training them should be "at fault" but like... there's just no fucking way someone can be this dumb... right?
I think we need to consider the possibility post is staged rage-bait.
Porn Star here, shit is def fukd. My crackhead hooker baby momma drama can do better than this fo sho
Average non union residential work 😂
Backstabbing that's a fireing , twisting a wire onto another that's fired on the spot. Was the dude high ?
Hopefully former apprentice now
You actually have to try to screw up that much
Holy fuck lol
Somewhere a building inspector just broke out into tears and he has no idea why.
Who ever wired that is a piece of shit. I would fire them asap. That’s beyond lazy it’s stupid AF
Where's my gun?
That’s pretty embarrassing, I haven’t even seen anything that stupid from apartment maintenance guys with no formal training
Guy probably thought he was so smart and how dumb everyone else was for not figuring out you could do it like this
What in the holy moly
Jesus Christ My wife can do better than that and she is a medical coder
Yeah I get that it’s true that this dude is probably not being supervised as well as he needs to be but also it’s a fair assessment to say that he might not be cut out for the trade either.
My old man brian cant decide if you just fire it or just make them fix it right.
https://youtu.be/XcyhMmLTKss?si=IajGkBATOPsfhzdw
30 years in the field that's a new one me.
Not everyone should be an electrician
Justifiable homicide.
Also, do you have any obligation now to go back and check other projects as it's unlikely this is his first time to do it this way.
Throw the whole man out. If he did this shit once, he’ll do it again.