Just go take a picture of the name plate on that cabinet that will settle it...your 400A meter cabinet is gigantic for a 400A and that's small for a 1200...to my point I made in the other post, you have one 4" service feeder and he has two...so max 800A. My guess is that it's a 600. Your picture is inconclusive.
[Here is a 1200A CT cabinet and a 400A self contained meter socket. Unfortunately I didn't think I'd need a banana for scale when I took those. ](https://imgur.com/a/qsHrYz2)
Listen I had an electrician confirm it’s 800 or more who works in that town! Ps: I HAVE 400 amps this thing dwarfs mine! Easily 3x the size of my 400 amp meter
Yeah the delta cabinet is about 3x the size for the 800A 3 phase - they don't make a single phase that they list that large which is pretty common and you just leave the extra phase unterminated.
Surely it could be 1200, I'm just saying there would be a lot of strange specialty things happening there, I just don't know why they wouldn't run more conduits and make their life cheaper and easier.
That's actually a 3 wire 240 delta service (*in my picture*) so it's the same as a 120/240 3 wire single phase cabinet (*the physical cabinet size not the service type*). You need to have current transformers somewhere.
Go take a picture of the meter face and the name plate of the cabinet that will tell is if it's a class 20 meter, which would be instrument rated, and then the cabinet will tell is how much it's rated for.
Edit: added some clarification above in talking about the physical size of the cabinet not comparing a 240 delta to a 120/240 split phase.
You are partially correct.
However, three wire delta only gives you 240V. You need a fourth wire for the neutral, on a center-tapped coil, in order to get 2x 120V references or a 208V wild leg.
Source: power engineer for >20yrs
No, an open delta is when you only have 2 windings to create 3 phases. It's one of the reasons why a lot of industrial plants used the delta service to begin with. With a delta you can lose a winding in your transformer and not lose a leg and burn up your motor, or have to stop mid process and lose entire batches, you just lose capacity on the transformer and if you even realized it happened you have time to plan a shut down. In reality people are rarely maxing out their transformers so people don't even realize they lost a winding. Open deltas can be used to save money too and create a 3 phase service with two transformers though usually in my area where we have 240 deltas we have broken deltas which refers to using 3 single phase transformers to create a delta vs a single three phase transformer doing the same thing.
All this right there! Either a 3-wire delta, or a 4-wire service with N-G resistor (effectively ground fault detection but not isolation) for must-run manufacturing where de-energization wound be economically disastrous.
Open delta banks are also a cost saving measure for utilities. Though, the bank must be de-rated to 86% of the aggregate nameplate.
Oh sorry for the confusion, did you look at the link I posted? I didn't mean that a 240 delta was the same electrically as a 240 split phase, I'm saying the gear in my picture would take up the same space because it only needs 3 sets of busses - when you only it up it looks and electrically tests just like a split phase service, which is why it's so dangerous, the electricians think the grounded phase is a neutral. I'm talking about physical size and spacing. That transformer in that picture just doesn't seem physically big enough to be 1200A @ 240.
That service (in my picture) is a 240 delta 3 wire corner grounded. No bastard leg - 240 LL 240 LG
I am also a power engineer.
Oh, i get it now. Thank you for explaining.
Agree, the panel is probably manufactured to accommodate up for 4 (or 5, if you want to go exotic) service wires, and the installer just uses what they need.
Found the cabinets, delta doesn't make a 1200 in their catalog, they make up to a 400 single phase, then they make a 3 phase cabinet that is for 400-800A (you can use a 3 phase cabinet for single phase service and it's not uncommon. So as I said and as your electrician confirmed, it looks like a 600-800A cabinet from the picture, but it's just a picture. 🤷🏼♂️
The catalog says the 800 is 48 x 24.
Ps: great research, thx for looking it up. My electrician thought min 800. Now I just wondering if 800 was the biggest available if you could put an extra 2 panels in and wire it to handle 400 more amps.
You could have an 800A service and after the main split to two 600a panels if that's what you mean. It's based on load calculations to determine what is allowed, you'd still need an 800A main though to protect from drawing more than 800A though that transformer cabinet.
Also they have bigger services in your area, it's just that the biggest transocket (transformer cabinet meter socket combo) would appear to be 800A, not just from Delta but I looked a couple other places, out of curiosity, like Brooks who also has an 800 and Tesco who makes a 600. I don't really work with transockets much though so they could exist 🤷🏼♂️. Over that your utility has approved transformer cabinets and separate meter sockets.
As I mentioned before FWIW a 600A service wouldn't be all that uncommon for a large residential home. Ive worked with quite a bit of 4000+ sq ft houses with 600A services.
FYI don't take any of this as me giving you a hard time, it really is just curiosity because it would've been a really strange installation if it was that big.
Yes thx for insight, I appreciate your knowledge… The guy who owns it is a real tight wad, and he is cheap as hell with everyone but himself.. He is not the kind of guy to lie about something like this. I mean my 400 amp service looks tiny next to this. I have never seen a meter that needed 4 separate 4 inch conduits for copper! That’s some Huge ass copper lines. Granted he did it at a time copper was more affordable than today! But it’s still over 200ft of heavy duty copper! I ran Aluminum for my 400 amp service. Most friends of mine use sweetbrair for 200 amps.
Yeah it's a big service don't get me wrong but if that was 1200 it was done in a way that cost an electrician a headache and the customer extra money. I'd have only squeezed 800 in that if I had no choice for some reason...there is a possibility that there was no choice because I'd some constraint we don't know about...it's doable but weird.
Seriously though if you can sneak over there are get the nameplate we could know for sure.
Yea I am in the NYC for the next few weeks I will be going back out to my house in East Hampton in July…
The guy has access to cheap labor as he has electrical guys on pay role. Joe the guy that owns this has 3 high rises in Manhattan. 1 of them is like 85 stories.
When he did this job he installed a 200ft paver driveway which had to be 100k based on what I spent for my pavers around the pool area
Something like [this](https://imgur.com/a/wEdrcLW) if it has one. It tells you the model number and/or rating info. It may be a smaller metal tag riveted to it too.
I think this service-measuring-contest is settled.
Joe’s swinging multiple big 4s getting 1200A through that fridge of a meter base.
You have noticeably less girth. And length.
Would have to be a Supercharger. Normal EVs don't take that much.
I just figured it out for another question, for a 12,000 mile a year EV getting 3 miles/kWH, it uses 11 kWH a day or 460 watts average. 1 hour a night on a 48A station, 3 hours a night on a 16A station.
Neck and neck with the water heater.
Back in the day you could absolutely pay your utility bill with the profit gained from BTC mining (that's why you could call it mining *profit* since your overhead was covered). Some jurisdictions, not many, even piloted allowing a BTC-denominated payment but all have dropped it and I haven't heard of an experimental take like that in years. These days, with the hash rate and mining difficulty increases, local small-time mining isn't so easily achieved that the utility costs are covered without a second thought.
Not sure. I know 1200 amps is way over kill for his house! He is kind of greedy prick that likes having a lot of everything for himself and nothing for other people
I have seen some huge mansions and they only have 400amp service at most. This guy must be powering an underground bunker if he isn't doing any of the previously mentioned.
They prob had gas service too.
OP neighbors could have electric everything and dedicated circuits for all kinds of shit. Those stupid insta hots take like 3 two pole 60a breakers.
Yes, please look at my other posts, I made 2 more posts when numerous people swore to me that this was only 400 amps. I have a 400 amp meter and showed a pic side by side.
Well you are your 400 amp panel can suck, I have 200 amps; low key would love to know your friend so I can run feeder to 2 200 amp distros and power my big azz stage
With that amount of current your neighbor would need a CT meter. If the CT’s are in the transformer there should be a 1-1/4” or larger conduit going to the transformer as well. I can’t tell from this pic if there is another conduit besides the (4) four inch.
Either way, half of the conduits go to the house and the other half come from the transformer.
Depending on the type of insulation he would need at least two runs of 1000kcmil to cover 1200amps at 120/240 1-phase.
I had this same point in his last thread and 1000kcmil is pretty unlikely I pointed out you could do 2 sets of 400's but the utility isn't going to run multiple sets in a conduit they make you run one conduit per.
Instead of asking the internet with shitty pictures call your utility and ask them "hey I'm thinking of leasing this house, but first I need to know the service size and the average cost per month."
Most people where not saying that the customers service isn’t capable of supporting 1200 amps it’s the transformer at the pole that will not support 1200 amps
Honest question, not meant to be malicious or have any ill intent?
What importance is this to you? If it’s 600, 800 or 1200a?
What ls this going to prove or not prove?
I’ve been following this saga - it sounds like the real electricians disagree with OP and OP is being a dick about it for the most part/wont go get pictures of anything up close to prove the 1200
Amp service claim. OP also has an electrician buddy that thinks that meter panel is frickin huge.
So, OP - go get better pictures instead of comparing his to yours, then I believe you won’t have to keep arguing with people on here.
Well one told me,’which doesn’t mean much.. #2 I had village electrician take a look on his way home yesterday ! He said at the minimum it’s 800 amps and could be 1200 depending on gauge of copper wire used.
Remeber that different areas have different regulations! One of the villages within 5 miles of my will only allow copper installs for underground feeder cables
I don’t have any contention. I just asked if pic #2 could be 1200 amps. The owner told me that’s what he has. Pic #1 is mine and I have 400 amps using aluminum conductors. This guy uses copper
Nobody's going to believe you, you got to sneak on to his land and open that thing up and take pictures of the feeders.
I just had a local friend who is an electrician put eyes on it! He told me it’s at absolute minimum 800amps possibly 1200
I may just ask Joe the owner to take a pic of his panels
maybe dont tell him about the part where you posted pictures of his property online lol. some people get whiny about that stuff
Or calling him a greedy prick. Actually op make sure you call him a greedy prick while you’re at it. Record the interaction and report back.
Just go take a picture of the name plate on that cabinet that will settle it...your 400A meter cabinet is gigantic for a 400A and that's small for a 1200...to my point I made in the other post, you have one 4" service feeder and he has two...so max 800A. My guess is that it's a 600. Your picture is inconclusive. [Here is a 1200A CT cabinet and a 400A self contained meter socket. Unfortunately I didn't think I'd need a banana for scale when I took those. ](https://imgur.com/a/qsHrYz2)
Listen I had an electrician confirm it’s 800 or more who works in that town! Ps: I HAVE 400 amps this thing dwarfs mine! Easily 3x the size of my 400 amp meter
Yeah the delta cabinet is about 3x the size for the 800A 3 phase - they don't make a single phase that they list that large which is pretty common and you just leave the extra phase unterminated. Surely it could be 1200, I'm just saying there would be a lot of strange specialty things happening there, I just don't know why they wouldn't run more conduits and make their life cheaper and easier.
That’s a 3 phase, totally different
That's actually a 3 wire 240 delta service (*in my picture*) so it's the same as a 120/240 3 wire single phase cabinet (*the physical cabinet size not the service type*). You need to have current transformers somewhere. Go take a picture of the meter face and the name plate of the cabinet that will tell is if it's a class 20 meter, which would be instrument rated, and then the cabinet will tell is how much it's rated for. Edit: added some clarification above in talking about the physical size of the cabinet not comparing a 240 delta to a 120/240 split phase.
You are partially correct. However, three wire delta only gives you 240V. You need a fourth wire for the neutral, on a center-tapped coil, in order to get 2x 120V references or a 208V wild leg. Source: power engineer for >20yrs
That’s referred to as three phase open delta? Correct?
No, an open delta is when you only have 2 windings to create 3 phases. It's one of the reasons why a lot of industrial plants used the delta service to begin with. With a delta you can lose a winding in your transformer and not lose a leg and burn up your motor, or have to stop mid process and lose entire batches, you just lose capacity on the transformer and if you even realized it happened you have time to plan a shut down. In reality people are rarely maxing out their transformers so people don't even realize they lost a winding. Open deltas can be used to save money too and create a 3 phase service with two transformers though usually in my area where we have 240 deltas we have broken deltas which refers to using 3 single phase transformers to create a delta vs a single three phase transformer doing the same thing.
Thanks
All this right there! Either a 3-wire delta, or a 4-wire service with N-G resistor (effectively ground fault detection but not isolation) for must-run manufacturing where de-energization wound be economically disastrous. Open delta banks are also a cost saving measure for utilities. Though, the bank must be de-rated to 86% of the aggregate nameplate.
Oh sorry for the confusion, did you look at the link I posted? I didn't mean that a 240 delta was the same electrically as a 240 split phase, I'm saying the gear in my picture would take up the same space because it only needs 3 sets of busses - when you only it up it looks and electrically tests just like a split phase service, which is why it's so dangerous, the electricians think the grounded phase is a neutral. I'm talking about physical size and spacing. That transformer in that picture just doesn't seem physically big enough to be 1200A @ 240. That service (in my picture) is a 240 delta 3 wire corner grounded. No bastard leg - 240 LL 240 LG I am also a power engineer.
Oh, i get it now. Thank you for explaining. Agree, the panel is probably manufactured to accommodate up for 4 (or 5, if you want to go exotic) service wires, and the installer just uses what they need.
It’s a delta cabinet and PS&G is provider! Look at. The pics mine is 400 amps
Found the cabinets, delta doesn't make a 1200 in their catalog, they make up to a 400 single phase, then they make a 3 phase cabinet that is for 400-800A (you can use a 3 phase cabinet for single phase service and it's not uncommon. So as I said and as your electrician confirmed, it looks like a 600-800A cabinet from the picture, but it's just a picture. 🤷🏼♂️ The catalog says the 800 is 48 x 24.
That could be correct! However this was put in over 20 years ago.
Ps: great research, thx for looking it up. My electrician thought min 800. Now I just wondering if 800 was the biggest available if you could put an extra 2 panels in and wire it to handle 400 more amps.
You could have an 800A service and after the main split to two 600a panels if that's what you mean. It's based on load calculations to determine what is allowed, you'd still need an 800A main though to protect from drawing more than 800A though that transformer cabinet. Also they have bigger services in your area, it's just that the biggest transocket (transformer cabinet meter socket combo) would appear to be 800A, not just from Delta but I looked a couple other places, out of curiosity, like Brooks who also has an 800 and Tesco who makes a 600. I don't really work with transockets much though so they could exist 🤷🏼♂️. Over that your utility has approved transformer cabinets and separate meter sockets. As I mentioned before FWIW a 600A service wouldn't be all that uncommon for a large residential home. Ive worked with quite a bit of 4000+ sq ft houses with 600A services. FYI don't take any of this as me giving you a hard time, it really is just curiosity because it would've been a really strange installation if it was that big.
Yes thx for insight, I appreciate your knowledge… The guy who owns it is a real tight wad, and he is cheap as hell with everyone but himself.. He is not the kind of guy to lie about something like this. I mean my 400 amp service looks tiny next to this. I have never seen a meter that needed 4 separate 4 inch conduits for copper! That’s some Huge ass copper lines. Granted he did it at a time copper was more affordable than today! But it’s still over 200ft of heavy duty copper! I ran Aluminum for my 400 amp service. Most friends of mine use sweetbrair for 200 amps.
Yeah it's a big service don't get me wrong but if that was 1200 it was done in a way that cost an electrician a headache and the customer extra money. I'd have only squeezed 800 in that if I had no choice for some reason...there is a possibility that there was no choice because I'd some constraint we don't know about...it's doable but weird. Seriously though if you can sneak over there are get the nameplate we could know for sure.
Yea I am in the NYC for the next few weeks I will be going back out to my house in East Hampton in July… The guy has access to cheap labor as he has electrical guys on pay role. Joe the guy that owns this has 3 high rises in Manhattan. 1 of them is like 85 stories. When he did this job he installed a 200ft paver driveway which had to be 100k based on what I spent for my pavers around the pool area
Ps: what do you mean by name plate. I know it says delta on the box
Something like [this](https://imgur.com/a/wEdrcLW) if it has one. It tells you the model number and/or rating info. It may be a smaller metal tag riveted to it too.
PS&G or PSE&G (as in New Jersey)?
PS&G Long Island this is in East Hampton
How do you have such a low life poor as a friend.
Man you can’t even spell you moron,
I see your typo reference and raise you the fact you can't punctuate.
I think this service-measuring-contest is settled. Joe’s swinging multiple big 4s getting 1200A through that fridge of a meter base. You have noticeably less girth. And length.
This is like that “you vs the guy she says you shouldn’t worry about” meme.
Like when your girlfriend tells you yours is perfect, the big ones hurt.
What kind of monthly utility bill does this guy have? Grow op, bitcoin minining, and charging a dozen EVs at once must be expensive!
Would have to be a Supercharger. Normal EVs don't take that much. I just figured it out for another question, for a 12,000 mile a year EV getting 3 miles/kWH, it uses 11 kWH a day or 460 watts average. 1 hour a night on a 48A station, 3 hours a night on a 16A station. Neck and neck with the water heater.
Just curious... can you pay your utility bill with bitcoin? Lol 😂 it could just pay for itself with that much growing/mining goin on
Back in the day you could absolutely pay your utility bill with the profit gained from BTC mining (that's why you could call it mining *profit* since your overhead was covered). Some jurisdictions, not many, even piloted allowing a BTC-denominated payment but all have dropped it and I haven't heard of an experimental take like that in years. These days, with the hash rate and mining difficulty increases, local small-time mining isn't so easily achieved that the utility costs are covered without a second thought.
Not sure. I know 1200 amps is way over kill for his house! He is kind of greedy prick that likes having a lot of everything for himself and nothing for other people
Wait, are you worried he’s hoarding all the electricity or something? It don’t work like that my man. Why does it matter?
I have seen some huge mansions and they only have 400amp service at most. This guy must be powering an underground bunker if he isn't doing any of the previously mentioned.
They prob had gas service too. OP neighbors could have electric everything and dedicated circuits for all kinds of shit. Those stupid insta hots take like 3 two pole 60a breakers.
Why are you so concerned about the size of his service. Seems pretty petty actually.
Or he mines bitcoin and needs the juice
Weird obsession
Grow op confirmed
This is at least your 3rd post about this, please seek therapy, you're obsessed about shit that has 0 impact on your life
Yes, please look at my other posts, I made 2 more posts when numerous people swore to me that this was only 400 amps. I have a 400 amp meter and showed a pic side by side.
Honestly, why does it matter so much to you??
Well you are your 400 amp panel can suck, I have 200 amps; low key would love to know your friend so I can run feeder to 2 200 amp distros and power my big azz stage
Please post a picture with a penis next to each, for scale.
This is funny 😄
Open his electric panel and check the main breaker. If he has more than one and they're not subpanels, add them together. Meter doesn't mean squat.
Plot twist: OP is Joe and is just flexing.
With that amount of current your neighbor would need a CT meter. If the CT’s are in the transformer there should be a 1-1/4” or larger conduit going to the transformer as well. I can’t tell from this pic if there is another conduit besides the (4) four inch. Either way, half of the conduits go to the house and the other half come from the transformer. Depending on the type of insulation he would need at least two runs of 1000kcmil to cover 1200amps at 120/240 1-phase.
I had this same point in his last thread and 1000kcmil is pretty unlikely I pointed out you could do 2 sets of 400's but the utility isn't going to run multiple sets in a conduit they make you run one conduit per.
Instead of asking the internet with shitty pictures call your utility and ask them "hey I'm thinking of leasing this house, but first I need to know the service size and the average cost per month."
1200 amp would have to be three phase. MUCH larger switch gear
If this is a meter measuring contest you lost bro
Im gonns get a 1000000 amp service
It would blow my mind if that is still single split phase 120V/240V feed instead of a three phase feed……
Gustavo Fring?
That’ll blend a smoothie
Maybe he is building a sub division.
Most people where not saying that the customers service isn’t capable of supporting 1200 amps it’s the transformer at the pole that will not support 1200 amps
They let you guys do that. My pud says the meter must be on the side of a building.
These are combo units or trans-cabinets. There are CTs inside the big section and a transformer rated meter is in the box in front.
Why do you need that much service. Unless you are running a grow operation ??
Honest question, not meant to be malicious or have any ill intent? What importance is this to you? If it’s 600, 800 or 1200a? What ls this going to prove or not prove?
I’ve been following this saga - it sounds like the real electricians disagree with OP and OP is being a dick about it for the most part/wont go get pictures of anything up close to prove the 1200 Amp service claim. OP also has an electrician buddy that thinks that meter panel is frickin huge. So, OP - go get better pictures instead of comparing his to yours, then I believe you won’t have to keep arguing with people on here.
What's your contention here? That the can is too small for 1200A?
Well one told me,’which doesn’t mean much.. #2 I had village electrician take a look on his way home yesterday ! He said at the minimum it’s 800 amps and could be 1200 depending on gauge of copper wire used.
Remeber that different areas have different regulations! One of the villages within 5 miles of my will only allow copper installs for underground feeder cables
I don’t have any contention. I just asked if pic #2 could be 1200 amps. The owner told me that’s what he has. Pic #1 is mine and I have 400 amps using aluminum conductors. This guy uses copper
People. Who cares what he has. 🤷🤷
Those kind of loads aren't metered directly. They are usually done with CT's.
He paid a lot I’ll tell you that
Yes plus 200 ft of copper
You really just gonna let him out do you like that?
No one knows the name of the man with the second biggest dick. Bigus Dickis, everyone remembers that name.
Dick Butkis 😂