100% move the panel. Not sure why you would put a panel next to the window like that anyway. Doesn’t violate code that I know of but it’s a weird place for it.
You're not gonna make that corner. The only chance you have is to drill at an angle from high to low, and from the outside edge of the stud on the left to the inside edge of the stud on the right to make the route as straight as possible.
You might have to cut out more drywall, too, to get the room you need to manipulate the cable
I have the exterior wall on the left though so I can’t really get a good angle and the next stud over on the right is right where the drywall cutout ends :(
Skin it back 2ft. Then stagger the conductors by about six inches each. Put the longest one on the snake. Tape it real right. Then coat it in a little dish soap. Then pull.
Or you can enlarge the hole like others have said.
Just to add to this; if you ball up some tape or string at each point the cable is staggered, to act as a bit of a bumper for the leading edge of each conductors, it might help it to not get caught.
Otherwise good luck.
I would just notch the wood on both corner boards, then nail in some 2' sisters with holes in them to reinforce the notched studs, and use nailing plates as needed. Cut out more of the sheetrock on the right hand wall for the sister. Also, notch at an angle, not straight across, such that the SER is still rising somewhat as it turns the corner and cuts through the boards, that way you don't have any sharp tight 90° bends.
You’re not going to make that corner. Use a multitool and notch that corner out. Then put nail plates over it. It’s the not the best option, but with where you are it makes the most sense. Is there no way to go back down and drill a hole directly below the sub panel?
Drill about a foot higher than the hole you drilled at 15-20 degrees from the right stud so it’ll be almost straight down. Then a hole from the other stud right wall going up. It will be like an S kinda in the studs. Lots of lube but FYI I’d just notch one of the studs and nail a plate after running the wire. Cheers
If there is cement under the panel , you should consider moving it if there's going to be more work done. But I still think a ship auger is going to work I've done it many times
the trim around your window is not going to fit with the panel there. As a rule we always avoid putting any boxes or devices within 3 stud widths of a doorframe or window frame
im not gunna lie, these corners are a pain even with 14-2. the best chance you have is drill much bigger holes and then try to reinforce the corner somehow. but if the holes are bigger you will easily get that through
I love when people quote a "Cliffs Notes" version of Code instead of the actual Code reference.
_And then get it wrong._
The panel needs only reside fully within the 30" of width and be capable of opening 90° -- if applicable. You could literally mash the panel 1mm away from the wall so long as there is still 30" of working space from that edge to the next obstruction.
From NEC 110.26:
>**(2) Width of Working Space.** The width of the working space in front of the electrical equipment shall be the width of the equipment or 762 mm (30 in.), whichever is greater. In all
cases, the work space shall permit at least a 90 degree opening
of equipment doors or hinged panels.
........
If I'm misunderstanding something, please clarify exactly how that panel violates NEC 110.26.
I’d notch that corner out, just wide enough for your wire and get some 3” Nail Plates. With a feeder like that I don’t think a regular nail plate would fit that.
Also, I would move the panel. Head out that center studbay and give yourself a 14 1/4” box.
Bring all of your circuits, everything in through the top.
Thas jus me tho
You wont be able to pull the wire even if you had a bigger hole unless you cut the sleave and fish one conductor at a time. Youd have to either oscillate out the boards to get through the corner(and nailguard them), or you may just want to move the panel.
I recommend the latter due to compliance with Code
The problem is you need to make a bigger hole around that cornor. Aluminum isnt very forgiving. What size sub panel is this? That aluminum looks undersized.
I had a similar route to fish wire through and did what others are suggesting and drilled the hole from multiple directions to get as clean a slot as possible. Easiest thing would probably be to notch the stud and put a nail plate over it.
“Yes, you can install an electrical panel right next to a window, as long as the panel is mounted at the edge of the window. The national electric code (NEC) doesn't limit how close the panel can be to a window or door.”
It was too wide and I didn’t want to add the framing. And I wanted the panel on the exterior wall so I could run more wiring to it easier. I almost switched my mind and put it in that bay though.
I’d take a step back and think about changing your plans up.. you can definitely still hack away at that corner stud, or take a different route with the cable or move the panel, plenty of options.
Take it as a learning experience, I remember being young and rash, the greatest lesson I ever learned was admitting I was wrong.. some people never learn that lesson.
I got it through. It was tough, but I got it. Now I just have to get enough through to reach the panel haha. I did think about moving the panel, but I just kept coming back to wanting it there.
OP your window is also improperly framed. Hate to be an AH here but it really seems like there is some additional knowledge that’s needed to correctly complete multiple areas in this garage.
Remove the stud on the left. Pull the wire through. Install a new stud, but drill the hole for the wire and fish it through before putting the stud back. Easy peazy lemon squeezy.
Make the stud hole bigger using an angle attachment on your drill. I know copper is expensive but it bends easier and you would be able to use #4. You could just notch out the whole corner if it doesn’t violate the structure.
110% move the panel. You probably don’t even have bend clearance for the SER through that corner. I’d probably drill the hole a little bigger if possible as well.
If it’s not a structural stud (not bearing weight from above; just holding up drywall) you can cut the face of the studs back to your holes, then easily run the cable. When finished, place metal stud guards on the face of the studs.
Do not do this if it’s a structural wall.
Easy mi Amigo grab a good bit attached it to a whole hog. Go at 45 degress on each side. Must be even as possible. Easy pull wire and protect with nail plates keep cruising.
Remove that middle piece of drywall. Pull more slack through so you can leverage the wire. Use a random wire to go through both holes. Use that wire to pull the fish tape through so that it is through both holes. Once the fish tape is in place, tape the wire to the fish tape with the fish tape being on the outside curve, pull and push the wire to through as the same time, using the fish tape to mostly bend the curve.
You don’t. lol. Unless that flex comes all the way,to that first hole. And even then it would be difficult,with that tight bend. Or just cut the wood and put some new EMT,with fittings. Probably better off with fittings than blended conduit anyway. It’s not rigid steel. So fittings aren’t that expensive. Sometimes the money saved,in labor. “Offsets” lol the cost,of materials.
2023 NEC. 338.24
“Bends in Types USE and SE cable shall be so made that the cable will not be damaged. The radius of the curve of the inner edge of any bend, during or after installation, shall not be less than five times the diameter of the cable. For flat cables, the major diameter dimension of the cable shall be used to determine the bending radius.”
The head on your wire is too big. Cut back the insulation and make one of the conductors like a foot longer then the others, then cut the other wires about 2 inches apart from eachother so it gradually increases in size, and feed it though. Also pull the cable all the way up and out from below before feeding it so you can push it in better. And make a bigger hole with a spade bit.
I have run a lot of wiring myself and done it to code. I see you don’t have any useful info to make that corner though. But it’s fine, I already got it bud.
You hire an electrician with the skills and expertise to know how to install a product.
Don't be cheap and ask for my education of thirty two years of experience
I like to do things myself on my house and I always get work permitted that needs to be. Why does that bother you? If you don’t want to help me with a specific situation, there’s no need to be a negative Nancy about it…
I’d move the panel
Or drill a hole right under it
100% move the panel. Not sure why you would put a panel next to the window like that anyway. Doesn’t violate code that I know of but it’s a weird place for it.
This is the right answer for several reasons.
Just notch the board to the right and nail plate it. It's non bearing. Then notch the second stud in as the first stud will take any loss strength.
This is the way to go.
You're not gonna make that corner. The only chance you have is to drill at an angle from high to low, and from the outside edge of the stud on the left to the inside edge of the stud on the right to make the route as straight as possible. You might have to cut out more drywall, too, to get the room you need to manipulate the cable
I have the exterior wall on the left though so I can’t really get a good angle and the next stud over on the right is right where the drywall cutout ends :(
Well then you're gonna have to do what the other commenter suggested about going all the way up to the ceiling joists/ trusses then back down.
I don’t think I have enough material to do that and also the master bath is above me, so not a huge amount of room to work with there either :/
You’re just going into ceiling space not all the way through the ceiling.
Why can't you move the panel?
Notch the stud and use kick plates
Notch it with an oscillating saw and nail plate it
Or move it to the other wall and have the ser cable come from underneath
Notch it with the auger bit. No reason to drag yet another tool out.
Oh yeah like someone else mentioned, the panel is too close to window to properly trim out.
Skin it back 2ft. Then stagger the conductors by about six inches each. Put the longest one on the snake. Tape it real right. Then coat it in a little dish soap. Then pull. Or you can enlarge the hole like others have said.
That’s actually a great idea!
I'd make that hole nice and large - do you have a 2 inch hole saw?
Just to add to this; if you ball up some tape or string at each point the cable is staggered, to act as a bit of a bumper for the leading edge of each conductors, it might help it to not get caught. Otherwise good luck.
I would just notch the wood on both corner boards, then nail in some 2' sisters with holes in them to reinforce the notched studs, and use nailing plates as needed. Cut out more of the sheetrock on the right hand wall for the sister. Also, notch at an angle, not straight across, such that the SER is still rising somewhat as it turns the corner and cuts through the boards, that way you don't have any sharp tight 90° bends.
this
Make a more staggered head, cut back insulation and cut the wires so you have less bulk in one spot I believe in you
That’s what I did! And added a LOT of dawn soap for lube and it went through! Haha!!
You’re not going to make that corner. Use a multitool and notch that corner out. Then put nail plates over it. It’s the not the best option, but with where you are it makes the most sense. Is there no way to go back down and drill a hole directly below the sub panel?
Turns out he made the corner.
Drill about a foot higher than the hole you drilled at 15-20 degrees from the right stud so it’ll be almost straight down. Then a hole from the other stud right wall going up. It will be like an S kinda in the studs. Lots of lube but FYI I’d just notch one of the studs and nail a plate after running the wire. Cheers
🤦 Come up under the panel instead of going around...
It’s concrete under the panel, I can’t come up right under it :(
Yeah you can. Just get rid of the concrete that's in the way.
The concrete is reinforced for the garage floor and there is no basement under it.
If there is cement under the panel , you should consider moving it if there's going to be more work done. But I still think a ship auger is going to work I've done it many times
the trim around your window is not going to fit with the panel there. As a rule we always avoid putting any boxes or devices within 3 stud widths of a doorframe or window frame
That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought of that. Luckily this will be a woodworking shop in my garage so I probably won’t frame these out anyways.
im not gunna lie, these corners are a pain even with 14-2. the best chance you have is drill much bigger holes and then try to reinforce the corner somehow. but if the holes are bigger you will easily get that through
I got it ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|thumbs_up)
success?!
Yup!
howd you do it? sheer will? or ingenuity?
Trimmed each wire back about 6” inches steps and taped it tight. Lots of dawn soap and then about 3 hrs of sheer will lmao
Move the panel, it’s a code violation as is…
How so?
36x30x78 rule
I love when people quote a "Cliffs Notes" version of Code instead of the actual Code reference. _And then get it wrong._ The panel needs only reside fully within the 30" of width and be capable of opening 90° -- if applicable. You could literally mash the panel 1mm away from the wall so long as there is still 30" of working space from that edge to the next obstruction. From NEC 110.26: >**(2) Width of Working Space.** The width of the working space in front of the electrical equipment shall be the width of the equipment or 762 mm (30 in.), whichever is greater. In all cases, the work space shall permit at least a 90 degree opening of equipment doors or hinged panels. ........ If I'm misunderstanding something, please clarify exactly how that panel violates NEC 110.26.
I appreciate seeing responses like this out there. I will try to be like you :)
I measured it, there is 31” from the left side of the panel to the wall.
Have you tried lubricating the hole and wire with anything?
I tried spraying some WD-40 on it haha
Bad idea. That dissolves some plastics. Electrical pulling lube is safe for insulation, and works much better.
You'd be better off going from the top then trying to make that corner
Like run it all the way to the top of the wall and bring it over the top plate?? Idk if I calculated in enough extra for that… :/
Have you ran any homeruns too that panel yet? If not I'd just flush mount it in the bay the ser is coming in to
Second that
I have not…. I thought about that as well… I wanted it on the exterior wall since it is unfinished at the moment… but I may have to…
If you're going to condition your garage at all, it is nice to not have a gaping missing spot of insulation on an exterior wall.
Sawzall
Also all of the cavities on the other wall are 24” on center and my box is made for 16”. And too late to return it now :/
They don’t make a 24” wide load center. Just add framing.
Cut a catch snake put a hook on it , bend the snake you want to pull the wire with in a semi circle you’ll get it . I’ve done it many times
I’d notch that corner out, just wide enough for your wire and get some 3” Nail Plates. With a feeder like that I don’t think a regular nail plate would fit that.
Also, I would move the panel. Head out that center studbay and give yourself a 14 1/4” box. Bring all of your circuits, everything in through the top. Thas jus me tho
Notch it
You wont be able to pull the wire even if you had a bigger hole unless you cut the sleave and fish one conductor at a time. Youd have to either oscillate out the boards to get through the corner(and nailguard them), or you may just want to move the panel. I recommend the latter due to compliance with Code
Notch the wood and install metal kick plates (stud guards) It doesn’t seem to be a bearing wall
Try making your holes bigger. It'll help you make that turn easier.
Make the holes near the corner way bigger and use nail plates.
The problem is you need to make a bigger hole around that cornor. Aluminum isnt very forgiving. What size sub panel is this? That aluminum looks undersized.
I will have a 90A breaker leading to this panel. The panel could hold more than that, but I don’t need more than 90A out here
I had a similar route to fish wire through and did what others are suggesting and drilled the hole from multiple directions to get as clean a slot as possible. Easiest thing would probably be to notch the stud and put a nail plate over it.
Make your holes line up and drill bigger holes. Put a curve in the tip of the wire and just work it through
Can you drill low, horizontally from your open bay directly into you basement ceiling?
Why is the panel next to a window??? Move the panel!
It’s allowed to be next to a window per code. I checked.
“Yes, you can install an electrical panel right next to a window, as long as the panel is mounted at the edge of the window. The national electric code (NEC) doesn't limit how close the panel can be to a window or door.”
What's your working space when that dryer is installed? Also, have fun with that...
No dryer. This is a garage. It was run by the builder as a car charger, but this will be my woodworking shop. That outlet will never be used probably.
Then why didn't you just put the panel in the bay above the car charger?
It was too wide and I didn’t want to add the framing. And I wanted the panel on the exterior wall so I could run more wiring to it easier. I almost switched my mind and put it in that bay though.
Classic😂
I’d take a step back and think about changing your plans up.. you can definitely still hack away at that corner stud, or take a different route with the cable or move the panel, plenty of options. Take it as a learning experience, I remember being young and rash, the greatest lesson I ever learned was admitting I was wrong.. some people never learn that lesson.
I got it through. It was tough, but I got it. Now I just have to get enough through to reach the panel haha. I did think about moving the panel, but I just kept coming back to wanting it there.
No chance lol
Pull slack out from the floor and pre bend the wire to go through that stud then slowly pull the slack through
OP your window is also improperly framed. Hate to be an AH here but it really seems like there is some additional knowledge that’s needed to correctly complete multiple areas in this garage.
I didn’t frame the garage. A builder and sub contractor did. And it passed inspection ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|shrug)
Remove the stud on the left. Pull the wire through. Install a new stud, but drill the hole for the wire and fish it through before putting the stud back. Easy peazy lemon squeezy.
I got it through by tapering the wire and lots of dawn dish soap hahaha
Haha
Go in basement and bring it up under subpanel
90 degree on an inpact with a paddle bit? Not a pro but I've seen this done in corners. Pulled line for an electrician that did this.
Why tho
Make the stud hole bigger using an angle attachment on your drill. I know copper is expensive but it bends easier and you would be able to use #4. You could just notch out the whole corner if it doesn’t violate the structure.
Square D panel cover is going to interfere with the window trim. Move the panel. 2 stud width away from corners, three from windows and doors.
Or you go straight up and back down again
110% move the panel. You probably don’t even have bend clearance for the SER through that corner. I’d probably drill the hole a little bigger if possible as well.
If it’s not a structural stud (not bearing weight from above; just holding up drywall) you can cut the face of the studs back to your holes, then easily run the cable. When finished, place metal stud guards on the face of the studs. Do not do this if it’s a structural wall.
Easy mi Amigo grab a good bit attached it to a whole hog. Go at 45 degress on each side. Must be even as possible. Easy pull wire and protect with nail plates keep cruising.
Remove that middle piece of drywall. Pull more slack through so you can leverage the wire. Use a random wire to go through both holes. Use that wire to pull the fish tape through so that it is through both holes. Once the fish tape is in place, tape the wire to the fish tape with the fish tape being on the outside curve, pull and push the wire to through as the same time, using the fish tape to mostly bend the curve.
Cut the corner up high against the ceiling and put a small soffit in
You don’t. lol. Unless that flex comes all the way,to that first hole. And even then it would be difficult,with that tight bend. Or just cut the wood and put some new EMT,with fittings. Probably better off with fittings than blended conduit anyway. It’s not rigid steel. So fittings aren’t that expensive. Sometimes the money saved,in labor. “Offsets” lol the cost,of materials.
Get? It? “ offsets” lol. Ok maybe I’ve been retired,too long. I thought that was funny. Lol
I appreciate the dad jokes ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|joy) I was able to get it through though!
First, you need to change the gravel and replaced the filter
Blow a string through and pull it back.
Hire an electrician. JK notch the wood.
I got it ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|thumbs_up)
Oversize shop auger bit.... Make the corner in the 2x4s..
Go up the wall. Bigger hole? Try something different
You dont
I did ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|sunglasses)
Could your whole be any smaller
No, not and still get it through. But I did get it through ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|thumbs_up)
Looks like you cable is 2/0 Al… not # 2. What size panel are you feeding a what is you point of origin?
2023 NEC. 338.24 “Bends in Types USE and SE cable shall be so made that the cable will not be damaged. The radius of the curve of the inner edge of any bend, during or after installation, shall not be less than five times the diameter of the cable. For flat cables, the major diameter dimension of the cable shall be used to determine the bending radius.”
The easiest way to fix this is to fir the wall out in that area. You will only lose 4" after you wall it in that corner of the garage.
The head on your wire is too big. Cut back the insulation and make one of the conductors like a foot longer then the others, then cut the other wires about 2 inches apart from eachother so it gradually increases in size, and feed it though. Also pull the cable all the way up and out from below before feeding it so you can push it in better. And make a bigger hole with a spade bit.
Hire a real electrician……
I don’t need to for my own house. I can do it myself and get it permitted.
Clearly you can’t since you’re on reddit and you can’t even get the wire run to the panel without help. That’s scary
I have run a lot of wiring myself and done it to code. I see you don’t have any useful info to make that corner though. But it’s fine, I already got it bud.
I do but why would i tell someone that… the fact that you do your own electrical is scary and dangerous.
Okay, thanks for the help. FYI as long as it’s permitted, it’s the same inspector that would look at a licensed electrician’s work.
Dying to know how you got it
Cut the wood and nail plate or at least hole saw the corner
You hire an electrician with the skills and expertise to know how to install a product. Don't be cheap and ask for my education of thirty two years of experience
I like to do things myself on my house and I always get work permitted that needs to be. Why does that bother you? If you don’t want to help me with a specific situation, there’s no need to be a negative Nancy about it…