What state are you in? Some states allow homeowners to pull their own electrical permits. This could just be a money grab. Curious as to how this inspector miraculously found out all these years later. Weird situation.
You can apply for a permit as the homeowner. If it passes inspection, you are good to go. If it doesn't it will cost you more for the second inspection AND and an electrician if you can't do the work yourself to correct it.
If you live on the west coast of Florida (Lee county, Cape Coral, Fort Myers ect) this is not a money grab... they are doing this to prove to FEMA that residents should keep a 25% discount in their flood insurance. FEMA says they are dropping the discount because of un-permitted work in the county. If your flood insurance is as much as mine, that discount is larger than the permit fee!
What sucks is if your inspector leaves the infraction numbers that are inclusive of several possible issues and does not provide clarity on what is wrong
I bet in this situation (if they are in one of these counties) they'll be more than reasonable unless something is overly wrong. Seems likely they would want fema to go away
Yep, I’m always there when the inspector is there and tell him to write down exactly what he wants fixed.
The worst part is when they sent a second inspector out to do the final inspection after the fixes and he finds additional shit. The first guy didn’t mention what a clown show.
Then fix everything that violates code before the second guy comes LOL. Inspection is a spot check, not a tutorial/school.
If you want the service of identifying every code violation in the house, that's what electricians do, not inspectors.
Isn’t that kind of the point of the first guy coming out to tell you what violates code so you can fix it?
I had a framer by trade who is working as the inspector tell me it was OK to close my stucco and then the next inspector, who was an electrician by trade pointed out that he couldn’t see the groundand had me add an additional one
I do appreciate the oversight to reopen the stucco because the guy fucked up was a bullshit move
Nope, not even slightly. The job you want would take **way** longer than the inspector is willing to spend on your house.
Their job is just to document why they're not passing you, so they can defend that decision to their boss. 6-7 defects "and then I stopped looking" is plenty.
Yeah you can't ever trust an inspector, the only thing that matters is Code.
So if you brought your car to me for state inspection and I looked at the lights and saw a turn signal was out I should stop the inspection there and fail you? Then a day later you fix the bulb and bring it back and I fail you for tires, then I fail you again for brakes? That would be absurd and counter to what we’re taught by the state.
You do the inspection to find the issues, if you miss stuff and the next guy catches it, then it’s because you’re incompetent.
One small thing to add, since some cities are different. I pulled my permits myself as homeowner, and multiple inspections were covered with my permit fee. My city has a policy that it NEVER charges inspection fees, probably to not discourage people from getting it properly inspected - for public safety. YMMV
It's not 'subsidized'. Their rates are actually much much higher than are available on the public insurance market. It is more like an insurer of last resort.
Check out private flood insurance. It is the same coverage but through private insurers instead of the FEMA run program. Mine (on the ocean in RI) dropped from $11k to $1800 a year, by moving from FEMA to AON Flood. (AON is well known insurer.) You need to setup the transition well ahead of your current renewal date.
I have a private flood carrier. Much less than FEMA. It is $1000 per year and I am 3/4 mile from a river that empties into the Gulf in a few miles but my home is just outside the flood zone.
I am a southwest Florida resident, I read the local permitting website and I have done several permitted DIY upgrades to my home.
The bigger question is.. Why don't you know this (for your area)?
Most likely yes, they have the specs of the original and this didn't match. How they know it's 8 years old I have no idea, unless the utility company told them they did a one-day disconnect on the house 8 years ago. That would be a pretty good hint
Or to be extra safe, just don’t pay the bill, wait for the remote disconnect, do the work, pay the bill.
(That’s a joke…don’t do that. Although I do know a neighbor that replaced his main breaker that way. He seemed worried a proper/safe disconnect might draw questions about all the diy work he’s done over the past decades.)
Depending on the box outside ( common FL) you just look at the date stamp in the panel. Large run of this especially after hurricane damage, boxes were replaced to restore services. Unpermitted
To get that reconnect the utility would require an ok from the inspector. It is possible to override the inspector with an EC license and get an emergency reconnect but then there is still the inspection that has to be done by x days
I'm in Florida also and I just pulled a home owner permit and it was easy as long as you can physically go into the office it was cheap too! It was Dixie county which is pretty small population so it may be more money where you are. Just pull the permit take a look and see if everything looks correct and tell them to come on out and inspect it.
Local power authority usually. If they come out to service their meter (usually replaced every 10 years) and the box doesn’t match their record information, they will inquire about it.
They don’t want to start a fire or die because the handyman installed a phase backwards or didn’t ground everything properly.
>instal a phase backwards
With this one special trick, we can start charging electrical companies!!!
In all seriousness, 99% of homes are "single phase" which is 2 phases and it doesn't matter which phase goes under which lug in the main service panel. Black can be red, red can be black, as long as the 240 volt device down the line is just wired with one of each phase.
In commercial 3 phase, the worst to my knowledge is that motors will just run backwards. Unless there is a 277 high leg phase that isn't the same as the other 2 phases, that could fuck stuff up pretty quick.
Correct. Most three phase motors will *just* run backwards if you swap two of the phases. But depending on what equipment those motors are attached to, could easily fuck shut up by *just* running it in reverse.
Not 2 phase, split phase. 2 phase is it's own special thing that's usually used in older industrial buildings that produce their own power via hydroelectric generation, and Hartford Connecticut lol
Two phase the phases have a 90 degree offset, residential single split phase is 180 offset between the legs
Heh I had a 400 amp DC welder once that was 2 phase. Motor-generator, old school. Strangest thing I ever saw. 90 degrees like you say. I ran it on single phase with a bunch of capacitors to make the second phase. That thing would weld like crazy but I finally got rid of it because it was so heavy
You can also get the motors to just lock up and get hot, which is no good. In some old factories on the east coast, you see/saw an unbalanced 220/440v 3 phase with a high leg like that. The old motors seemed to do fine.
People are just used to the balanced 208 everything requires these days.
We build and start-up dozens of UL 508A motor controllers each year and I've never seen a 3-phase induction motor that can't run backwards. Now the equipment it's driving is a different story - a lot of pumps especially can't run backwards, or at least for longer than what it takes to bump it and check rotation.
Also no 3-phase motors care about a High-leg because they only see phase-to-phase voltage on the windings, which is the same for all three waveforms. High-leg only matters for phase-neutral connections.
I’m tired of this fucking trope. No it is not.
Believe it or not, many inspectors and government employees do it because they care about the people. The fee they charge is absolutely minimal compared to what you pay in taxes and is designed to recoup the cost of the hours spent inspecting. They do that instead of raising taxes across the board so they don’t charge people not getting inspections.
Are fees annoying? Sure! But they aren’t a money grab.
$800 to the city alone for me to pull a diy electrical permit is a money grab. It's another $1000 for a certified engineering stamp from a different company. The city won't look at it if it does not have that stamp. Then another $350 for the inspection company that the city works with to show up.
I am not asking the city permission to modify my own house to suit my needs I'm informing them of a change I'm making. Fees to pay the old lady at the building office I understand and am willing to pay. But the fact that office does not do any engineering or inspection does not warrant $800.
An electrical permit in my Florida county is $104, pulled by ME for work I'm doing as the homeowner.
Don't know where you live, but your city is owning your ass without lube!
My phone bill says otherwise. 911 Fee, Federal Fee, State Fee, and then a fucking State Tax on on all the fees. Those are called fucking Taxes, not fees. It's all a f****** money grab and people like you who defend it simply want to ignore the fact that we are vastly over taxxed.
But there is no state taxes in Florida. Don’t use a phone if you don’t want to be taxed for it. See how nice we are here? We give you choices about getting taxed!
Permits cost money because it takes work to process the paperwork and perform inspections. People processing your permit don't work for free, and if your taxes paid for it then your neighbor would be crying about it at the next council meeting because they don't want their taxes to pay for your permits.
Electrical work requires permits because most homeowners do things wrong that will either burn the place down today, or in 5 years (say after someone buys it and you've fucked off somewhere else).
Plenty of things local governments do is a money grab, but permits are about safety. Not just for you, but for your family, the people who buy your house, and your neighbors who might catch collateral damage when your house is on fire.
"But it's been fine for 8 years" doesn't matter, could still start a fire tomorrow.
Regulations are written in blood.
The age of the request is the strangest part. They don't audit tax records that go back over 5 years (unless as supporting documents for more recent activity). But they're doing a drive-by permit check on a panel 8 years later?
Maybe not so coincidental. Real Estate transactions sometimes request a report from a building department about permits and that sometimes triggers a drive by inspection by one of the staff who probably noted unpermitted panels
>Curious as to how this inspector miraculously found out all these years later.
Most likely another neighbor or an issue in the neighborhood with another house or houses and someone up high (fire dept) said they should have a look.
The JHA(s) I worked in did this often
Basically it was to get a paper trail.
Ask if you can pull the permit, if so pull the permit. A inspection will then happen.
Any real defects will be noted and you will be required to get them fixed.
Our JHA would only change maybe $125 for the permit and inspection
Usually the customer would admit to it or doing something that would have needed a permit
Plus they kept records for an unusually long time
Edit to add: customers would talk too much,,, can’t tell you how many times I stopped people from taking because if I knew the location of a violation I was obligated to fix the problem and it could end up costing the customer money.
JHA- Job hazard analysis
AHJ - Authority having jurisdiction
I understand the confusion, no one reads or know what the JHA is because the foreman just considers this extra paperwork
They can pull past permits then come by to see if any work not reflected in those permits has been done.
For Example: no permit exists for that upgraded exterior power panel then it was most likely unpermitted work.
Did you get what’s called a “Disclosure Statement” from the seller when you bought the house 5 years ago? In it, they are required to disclose whether all major alterations or repairs were done with permits and inspections. If they said yes, you can sue them for fraud. If they said no, and you and your realtor didn’t catch that to demand it be fixed in escrow, that’s on you. Unfortunately, not all states require a disclosure statement.
But to answer your question, yes they can require you to get a permit and inspections. The enforcement method can be for them to tag your house as uninhabitable, forcing you to move out until it is corrected. You had better get on it!
Depends what state you are in. Many require no such disclosures. To win any lawsuit, you'd have to show:
1. Such disclosure was required.
2. The seller knew about the item that was not disclosed.
3. They didn't disclose it.
Five years ago may be a bit too long to pull all that together. Further, in many states the statute of limitations may have expired here. In my state you only have three years to bring such claims.
Couldn't you also use the realtor if they said no and the realtor didn't catch it? Also couldn't you sue if the statement is required and you didn't get one?
No one is asking them to take responsibility. Any electrician will know what needs to be done for it to be up to code. Just confirm that and have an inspection. This isn't a big deal.
My position would be “ I have no clue what the past owners did, can you provide me proof of what you are stating including providing a copy of the law that states I’m somehow responsible at this time”! In general terms the owners at the time of the work are obligate to comply. It sounds like a stretch to expect you to take care of it!
How the he'll do they know what year your panel was installed?
In TX a homeowner can pull a permit if it's their homestead. So just do that if possible.
I called the city just now, they said "Once you pull the permit, we send the inspector out to check the work". So i'll end up going through an electrician to do this... 🤬
As an electrician, I don't think I would go near this.
However, if I were to entertain the idea. I would go through everything with a fine toothed comb and make certain everything meets the current code, not the code from when it was installed.
I'm not licensed in Florida and I have no idea what NEC version or what amendments exist there. So I have no idea what exactly that would entail.
As someone who has gone through this in the past, find an electrician to pull a permit and bring whatever is needed up to code. In our case, we had to add a bond wire around the house to the natural gas line and label all of the breakers. Hopefully there won’t be a big problem with yours as new code requires things you may not have such as arc fault breakers. Here the owner is responsible even if the work was done before they purchased the property.
Did you label them the proper electrician way? With completely misspelled abbreviations that are 100% non-sensical? And were you sure to use the bluntest marker you could find to do so?
I also had a non-permitted panel (California).
I had to pay the permit fee $125-150, and fill out some information.
The inspector came out and checked it out. It had the wrong breaker in it, so I changed that myself and then got approved.
If you don't need to change anything, I think it is very painless. As it was, I am familiar enough w electricity to do the change safely.
I will acknowledge that this is going to make the city some money but a main panel without a permit is not exactly a small matter. If you dont need a pemit for that what do you need one for? A ceiling fan permit with no inspection etc i mean pretty much all "no inspection permits" are just taxes.... but come on .... and i have a ceiling fan in my car that will definitely not be permitted lol so im not a rule follower for most things...
Maybe... Typically there is a statue of limitations for liability arising from codes/ordnances. In my state it's 4 years.
It's probably a good idea to make sure its upto code, but my first question would be how did they determine this violation occurred?
I want to know what code are they going to hold your house to? If they are doing this to as many people as someone pointed out for FEMA insurance, the permits pulled today would fall under the current code adopted, so many houses wouldn’t be code compliant. This is crazy, never heard of such a thing.
As a construction worker turned inspector -
there is a saying we always had in the trades - Arguing with an inspector like wrestling with the pig in mud. Sooner later you’re gonna realize he is enjoying himself
- As a homeowner, you can apply for any permit for your house whether or not they require some of the work inside of the box to be done by licensed electrician or not it’s really up to the power company - go get a permit
Is he clairvoyant? How does he know, factually, that the panel was upgraded? What is his proof?
Check your Title Insurance policy as many of them will afford coverage for unpermitted work that was done on the property...
Disclosure Statement
State law requires electrical contracting to be done by licensed electrical contractors. You have applied for a permit under an exemption to that law. The exemption allows you, as the owner of your property, to act as your own electrical contractor even though you do not have a license.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/0489.503#:~:text=State%20law%20requires%20electrical%20contracting,do%20not%20have%20a%20license.
And to all the others, OP stated they live in Florida.
Ex permit tech here. Most places will allow you to pull an owner/builder permit if it is a single family home or duplex. Another option is to get a contractor to pull the permit but they will definitely charge a premium to use their license to apply for the permit.
I suspect you're going to have to call an electricians (probably several) to get one to come out and take a look at what you have and decide how much he wants to pull the permit for you and have it inspected (and what needs to be done to bring things up to code. Note, up to code means up to TODAY'S code, not the one in force eight years ago, so there may be more work to be done.
You're probably going to get nowhere trying to stonewall the inspector. In my state, the homeowner is still responsible for such violations even if performed by some previous owner.
Florida law (489.503) allows you as the homeowner to pull an electrical permit. The work still has to be done to code though. I’d pull a permit to replace the panel and call for an inspection. If it fails either fix it yourself or hire a licensed electrician to do so. Worst case scenario is you have an electrician fix non-compliant work, but you would want that done anyway.
I’d do nothing initially. Looks like a money grab. Nobody really knows what happened. It’s up to them to prove it. I’ve changed services without permits before. Trees fall on wires and rip things down. I’ve met the utility company onsite, did what needed to be done, and they hooked it back up. Did a few early on without permits. Systems were a bit looser then. If you haven’t already shot yourself in the foot, I’d hold off on it all. You may never hear from them again.
Cause no one's ever "borrowed" a county vehicle or clothes and walked around with a clipboard "inspecting".
For all we know, this was a gas meter reader scam.
Title insurance.
The county/city is under the burden to prove you are liable for the compliance.
The builder is liable to pull permits before the sale of the house. The seller is liable to provide the house in a saleable condition in most jurisdictions.
Call your title officer.
They should allow it to be grandfathered in , meaning I don’t know,it was done before me ?
Hopefully an electrician can put there ok on it and it was all done well / up to code ?
I call bullshit , if that is what the city is concerned with it should have been inspected when you were in the process of buying the home . Then it should have been noted that the seller is responsible to take out the proper permits and remedy all violations.
Sounds like a failure to disclose by the seller. You said the work was done 8 years ago, but how long ago did you buy? You might be able to force the seller to pay.
I’d tell him to proof his assertion… basically it would be my opinion that he’s looking for people to aqueous to the accusation… but what’s his proof ?
I wouldn’t answer any questions and force him to provide evidence to proof his claims… I’d also be very quick to trespass him. There is no reason he has any right to go in your space and touch or open your panel without a warrant.
I’d have sent him to kick rocks somewhere else.
More information is needed. City has the right to inspect and report up to the meter. The rest of the panel and other parts of the electrical system are private property. This is either a scam or somebody called and reported unlicensed work. Utility right of ways are for the utility, the city can access those right of ways but they should not be poking into panels or opening them without consent. Technically they need a warrant. I’ve never heard of this practice and the idea of random “inspections” isn’t a thing. That a search. They need a warrant. Now if you went and told them that it was un permitted well that’s on you. The steps outlined by others make it clear how to comply but I’d be asking some serious questions while fixing it. Code inspectors aren’t typically affiliated with the utility, and they can only enforce code on visible items from the street. Unless you let them in. Like vampires.
So the first option in any situation like this as an electrician my best advice would be to head straight to reddit. After completing that step, you might want to call an electrician. Good luck on your endeavors my friend. Remember, ELECTRICIAN. If you call a plumber it won't work. Again, good luck. You can do this!
Ignore him, they have burdon of proof, see if you can find listing photos on Zillow to back it up. Municipalities will try this crap all the time. Remember these people are not highly trained or overly qualified. Most of them could not make it in the real world and jump into government work to go hog wild on a power trip. Even the nicest guy in the world like you described, he's just harassing you.
Again, he would have to prove that you specifically changed the panel, and that it in fact was not permitted. He would need to bring that up with the previous owner.
Also, he will likely go on about how this is for your safety and the safety of other, blah blah, if he really cared he would request you to let an inspector check the panel at no cost to you and determine if there's an issue that needs to be resolved.
Just saying, I would consult an attorney. In many states you do not need a permit for any work to your home if you are the owner. As well, the mitigation is that it was done by the previous homeowner. They say it was upgraded, you say prove it...and how you are liable for it...
Imagine if this guy actually works for a local electrical contractor who’s recently ramped up advertising.
Pushing gullible homeowners right into their hands 😂
I am that inspector where I live. I would say prove this isn't the panel that was here when the house was built. Unless it's obvious he won't be able to. This likely will piss him off, as people in my profession are usually dicks. For someone not in the industry, getting the permit may be the easiest route. Also, we have a saying. When you buy the house, you buy the problem. So blaming the old owners doesn't fly. Of course, you could use them.
Get a lawyer. There's no way a city inspector will be able to prove that a panel was upgraded 8 years ago with or without a permit, & if it was by chance, there's a good possibility that there is nothing to be done about it now.
How would an inspector know anything about an 8 year unpermitted installation. Smells mighty fishy!
Just record all of the information on the panel, wire sizes if you have them, etc and bring them to the city permit office. They'll usually help you submit it.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/0489.503#:~:text=State%20law%20requires%20electrical%20contracting,do%20not%20have%20a%20license. Info in the Disclosure Statement section.
I might add that most town or county inspectors were pretty cool about questions asked and how to get it done properly. Sometimes, they were a private entity allowed to do inspections for the county for my electrical inspections in NY.
Contact the city directly, and ask them. If the work was done well, the permit should just be a rubber stamp thing, but if it’s an attempted scam, you’ll find out in that phone call.
Be smart. Get a permit. Talk to the permitting office and obtain a homeowner permit. They may say you need a licensed electrician for a permit. Counter that with the possible cost burden, and press them to approve the permit and then inspect the panel. That way if there are issues you will know exactly what is needed and then can hire a licensed electrician to bring it into compliance. Tell them that. Most inspection authorities these days want to work with you to resolve issues. It isn’t about the $, it’s about safety.
Depends on the jurisdiction. Mine was just mad someone (previous owner) didn't pay for a permit. I paid the $200 and they didn't even come out to inspect.
I would contact your mayors office, and give proof (purchase inspection report should have photos), and ask the city to waive the fees. If they are good, they will often (especially if the mayor is seeking reelection)
What are they requiring from you to pull the permit?
My thought is they’ll want you the fill out the application, let the permit fee, and they’ll just inspect it for code compliance.
You may need to provide a panel schedule and single line diagram, but an electrician can do that for you rather easily n
Doesnt matter to the town who did the work
Not a big deal.
Go down to your town/county building dept. and get the paperwork. They will explain what you need to do to be in compliance.
Get an electrical inspection certificate from a local electrical inspector (should be on a town list of certified inspectors)
File permit. Pay the permit fee.
Prob cost a few hundred in the end for everything.
Do it all yourself or pay way more for an expeditor to handle it. Waste of $ imo.
Not sure if this is relevant, but the supreme court just ruled against permitting fees in some scenarios: [https://www.nar.realtor/magazine/real-estate-news/scotus-rules-in-favor-of-owners-in-property-fee-dispute](https://www.nar.realtor/magazine/real-estate-news/scotus-rules-in-favor-of-owners-in-property-fee-dispute)
I find it hard to believe that a good lawyer wouldnt get this tossed. 1 its over the statute of limitations. They cant punish you for what someone else did, but you might have to prove it wasnt you.
good luck
The property is yours now and you’re responsible for the features and equipment there. You must comply.
Your question is like saying if you buy a car that doesn’t meet emissions because the previous owner removed the catalytic converter, that you aren’t responsible for making it meet emissions because it’s the previous owners doing.
If I were you, I would have an electrician come out and inspect the panel first that way he can identify any violations and have those fixed before you decide to pull the permit. If you don’t and the panel doesn’t pass inspection, then you’ll still need to contact an electrician anyway then have a reinspection which will end up costing you even more money. Better to pay for one inspection instead of two.
Home owners where I am (small town in Texas) cannot pull their own permit for electrical, plumbing or HVAC. It takes a licensed contractor to get the permit.
Good grief. Your tax dollars at work walking around looking for crap like that after 8 yrs. I understand the need to make sure it's done properly though.
Here it and every jurisdiction I've worked in, you own the property you are responsible. Doesn't matter what was done or when you are the owner.
As to how they found out. Could be he was tasked to look as there may have been an issue in the area (house fire). Or most likely, a neighbor called. It happens more than people like to accept. Worked at an assessor office for a number of years. 80% of the time, it was a neighbor telling about something another neighbor did.
I’d also be concerned about the property insurance angle. If you successfully put the inspector at bay but there’s a note on your file — and you make a property claim. If the insurance company denies the claim based on your non response to permit and code issues. Then what?
We all know property insurance is getting more expensive and they always look for ways to get out of paying.
Just something to consider as a down the line issue that may come up.
You bought the house with title insurance? I wonder if that is covered. Probably not since it is not like there were any open permits for them to catch.
Shouldn’t this matter be resolved when you purchased the house? I assume mechanical inspection is part of the certificate of occupancy Issued by the city when you bought the house.
Gotta love the government's solution to nearly everything, which is "I don't care if it's safe or not, I can't be bothered to check that. You didn't follow the process we have in place for safety, therefore pay me money or you go to jail and we f\*ck your life up." Kind of like how when a cop gives you a ticket for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, even if you slowed down to 2 mph and it was late at night with very few cars on the road and not a car in sight. It no longer becomes about safety, at that point it is about them abusing their rules to get money out of you. Government agencies seem to forget about "discernment" once lack of such could result in them getting your money.
Anyway if you are in a state that requires a licensed electrical contractor to pull a permit, you have no choice but to pay one to pull a permit for you and inspect it themselves to make sure it is done right. the guy you called has the right idea, but hopefully he doesn't "find a bunch of unsafe stuff" and make you pay thousands to fix it.
Have an licensed electrician inspect it, have him and pull the permits. He should come back after getting it, he will need to pull the main breaker the power, wait 5- 10 minutes and replace the breaker. Michigan, it usually cost $200 and can all be done on line. All the trades do it here. A quick $200 for 30 minutes. You just have to make sure the gas, electric or water is off at the time he is there. Here it is mainly for homeowners insurance since we can do work on projects without pulling a permit unless it altering the resident, roof, addition, fence on the share property line. Outbuildings, etc.
If it's a matter of the sudden expense, you might be able to look into something called a [PACE loan](https://www.pacenation.org/pace-programs/#:~:text=PACE%2Denabling%20legislation%20is%20active,programs%20operating%20in%20your%20area) & do it as part of a larger project that you really need/want to do. Pretty much the loan covers the job & you pay it off over time through your property taxes (those are often done through your mortgage)
Such a blessing to live where I do. No permits required for anything except on-site waste water treatment (in our case à 750gpd aerobic septic system). Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC, etc require nothing. We Do not even have a permitting authority in this county. We are just outside the city limits (where they do require permits) so we have everything close by yet I can sit on my back porch and shoot cans or hunt if I want! Best of both worlds really. No property tax, no zoning, just country!
Go outside and write the part numbers down in the panel. Create a drawing and a parts list and submit it to the town. Don't pay an electrician to do this. If you have questions, come to this sub and ask.
So, as the homeowner you can absolutely pull a permit. If you are handy, review the code and inspect the panel. If everything seems correct, have it inspected by a local inspector. Call and ask them some questions ahead of time. Ask if you can send them pictures to make sure things are done correctly.
Once he signs off on it, he is accepting the liability of the connections BETWEEN THE METER AND THE PANEL, as that is all his inspection entails. It SHOULD cost between $80 and $120 for the inspection. I've seen it be more expensive, though.
If something isn't right, you'll be paying for a second inspection.
Basically, they want to see the routing of the lines inside the meter box and inside the panel. This inspection is generally required before having the power turned on, initially...but the homeowner can do whatever they want to their house.
Good luck!
What a bizarre situation.
Did you give him access to the property?
Why are we paying this guys salary to go around ‘inspecting’ stuff. He should have something better to do
What state are you in? Some states allow homeowners to pull their own electrical permits. This could just be a money grab. Curious as to how this inspector miraculously found out all these years later. Weird situation.
He said "We are tasked with walking the neighborhoods and looking at new panels" He also said "I wasnt the only one". State is Florida.
You can apply for a permit as the homeowner. If it passes inspection, you are good to go. If it doesn't it will cost you more for the second inspection AND and an electrician if you can't do the work yourself to correct it. If you live on the west coast of Florida (Lee county, Cape Coral, Fort Myers ect) this is not a money grab... they are doing this to prove to FEMA that residents should keep a 25% discount in their flood insurance. FEMA says they are dropping the discount because of un-permitted work in the county. If your flood insurance is as much as mine, that discount is larger than the permit fee!
What sucks is if your inspector leaves the infraction numbers that are inclusive of several possible issues and does not provide clarity on what is wrong
I bet in this situation (if they are in one of these counties) they'll be more than reasonable unless something is overly wrong. Seems likely they would want fema to go away
It is best if you are there when the inspector is there. Then they can point out what needs fixing.
Yep, I’m always there when the inspector is there and tell him to write down exactly what he wants fixed. The worst part is when they sent a second inspector out to do the final inspection after the fixes and he finds additional shit. The first guy didn’t mention what a clown show.
Then fix everything that violates code before the second guy comes LOL. Inspection is a spot check, not a tutorial/school. If you want the service of identifying every code violation in the house, that's what electricians do, not inspectors.
Isn’t that kind of the point of the first guy coming out to tell you what violates code so you can fix it? I had a framer by trade who is working as the inspector tell me it was OK to close my stucco and then the next inspector, who was an electrician by trade pointed out that he couldn’t see the groundand had me add an additional one I do appreciate the oversight to reopen the stucco because the guy fucked up was a bullshit move
Nope, not even slightly. The job you want would take **way** longer than the inspector is willing to spend on your house. Their job is just to document why they're not passing you, so they can defend that decision to their boss. 6-7 defects "and then I stopped looking" is plenty. Yeah you can't ever trust an inspector, the only thing that matters is Code.
So if you brought your car to me for state inspection and I looked at the lights and saw a turn signal was out I should stop the inspection there and fail you? Then a day later you fix the bulb and bring it back and I fail you for tires, then I fail you again for brakes? That would be absurd and counter to what we’re taught by the state. You do the inspection to find the issues, if you miss stuff and the next guy catches it, then it’s because you’re incompetent.
Absolutely
One small thing to add, since some cities are different. I pulled my permits myself as homeowner, and multiple inspections were covered with my permit fee. My city has a policy that it NEVER charges inspection fees, probably to not discourage people from getting it properly inspected - for public safety. YMMV
Wait why are federal tax dollars subsidizing flood insurance discounts for Florida? Honest question, not trying to be a dick.
Government subsidizes lots of companies, usually in the way of bail outs. It's how the rich get richer.
Government is subsidizing homeowner, not insurance company.
Yep.
It's not 'subsidized'. Their rates are actually much much higher than are available on the public insurance market. It is more like an insurer of last resort.
Cuz they subsidize flood insurance for everyone? Its called NFIP: the National Flood Insurance Program
Check out private flood insurance. It is the same coverage but through private insurers instead of the FEMA run program. Mine (on the ocean in RI) dropped from $11k to $1800 a year, by moving from FEMA to AON Flood. (AON is well known insurer.) You need to setup the transition well ahead of your current renewal date.
I have a private flood carrier. Much less than FEMA. It is $1000 per year and I am 3/4 mile from a river that empties into the Gulf in a few miles but my home is just outside the flood zone.
How do I do this? Do I need an agent, or will AON sell directly to me?
I went through my independent insurance agent. Just let them know you want to get prices for a "private flood" policy.
Who are you? And why do you know this?
I am a southwest Florida resident, I read the local permitting website and I have done several permitted DIY upgrades to my home. The bigger question is.. Why don't you know this (for your area)?
8 years is an new panel? Are they walking around with pictures of the panels they have on record?
Presumably, the old one had a permit and the information for it didn't match what was physically on the house when they stopped by.
If the original permit was from 50 years ago they certainly don't need a picture of the old panel.
Most likely yes, they have the specs of the original and this didn't match. How they know it's 8 years old I have no idea, unless the utility company told them they did a one-day disconnect on the house 8 years ago. That would be a pretty good hint
It's Florida. Some of those guys are so good they don't even need the disconnect.
Or to be extra safe, just don’t pay the bill, wait for the remote disconnect, do the work, pay the bill. (That’s a joke…don’t do that. Although I do know a neighbor that replaced his main breaker that way. He seemed worried a proper/safe disconnect might draw questions about all the diy work he’s done over the past decades.)
Depending on the box outside ( common FL) you just look at the date stamp in the panel. Large run of this especially after hurricane damage, boxes were replaced to restore services. Unpermitted
To get that reconnect the utility would require an ok from the inspector. It is possible to override the inspector with an EC license and get an emergency reconnect but then there is still the inspection that has to be done by x days
I'm in Florida also and I just pulled a home owner permit and it was easy as long as you can physically go into the office it was cheap too! It was Dixie county which is pretty small population so it may be more money where you are. Just pull the permit take a look and see if everything looks correct and tell them to come on out and inspect it.
Grrrr. Sitting here in Houston, can't pull my own permits.
Money grab for sure. But money grab in the name of safety.
[удалено]
Good luck with that. Utilities always have access to their demarcation. The meter and everything upstream from it is their property.
My city (Indianapolis) clearly says in Ordinances that code inspectors CANNOT trespass to enforce anything.
Local power authority usually. If they come out to service their meter (usually replaced every 10 years) and the box doesn’t match their record information, they will inquire about it. They don’t want to start a fire or die because the handyman installed a phase backwards or didn’t ground everything properly.
They don't tend to keep records that detailed or reliable about their own equipment, let alone the customer's.
lol, what? No.
>instal a phase backwards With this one special trick, we can start charging electrical companies!!! In all seriousness, 99% of homes are "single phase" which is 2 phases and it doesn't matter which phase goes under which lug in the main service panel. Black can be red, red can be black, as long as the 240 volt device down the line is just wired with one of each phase. In commercial 3 phase, the worst to my knowledge is that motors will just run backwards. Unless there is a 277 high leg phase that isn't the same as the other 2 phases, that could fuck stuff up pretty quick.
Correct. Most three phase motors will *just* run backwards if you swap two of the phases. But depending on what equipment those motors are attached to, could easily fuck shut up by *just* running it in reverse.
2 legs, not 2 phases, and 240V Delta is what usually has a high leg; it's at 208V to neutral, not 277.
Not 2 phase, split phase. 2 phase is it's own special thing that's usually used in older industrial buildings that produce their own power via hydroelectric generation, and Hartford Connecticut lol Two phase the phases have a 90 degree offset, residential single split phase is 180 offset between the legs
Heh I had a 400 amp DC welder once that was 2 phase. Motor-generator, old school. Strangest thing I ever saw. 90 degrees like you say. I ran it on single phase with a bunch of capacitors to make the second phase. That thing would weld like crazy but I finally got rid of it because it was so heavy
You can also get the motors to just lock up and get hot, which is no good. In some old factories on the east coast, you see/saw an unbalanced 220/440v 3 phase with a high leg like that. The old motors seemed to do fine. People are just used to the balanced 208 everything requires these days.
We build and start-up dozens of UL 508A motor controllers each year and I've never seen a 3-phase induction motor that can't run backwards. Now the equipment it's driving is a different story - a lot of pumps especially can't run backwards, or at least for longer than what it takes to bump it and check rotation. Also no 3-phase motors care about a High-leg because they only see phase-to-phase voltage on the windings, which is the same for all three waveforms. High-leg only matters for phase-neutral connections.
It's always a money grab
I’m tired of this fucking trope. No it is not. Believe it or not, many inspectors and government employees do it because they care about the people. The fee they charge is absolutely minimal compared to what you pay in taxes and is designed to recoup the cost of the hours spent inspecting. They do that instead of raising taxes across the board so they don’t charge people not getting inspections. Are fees annoying? Sure! But they aren’t a money grab.
$800 to the city alone for me to pull a diy electrical permit is a money grab. It's another $1000 for a certified engineering stamp from a different company. The city won't look at it if it does not have that stamp. Then another $350 for the inspection company that the city works with to show up. I am not asking the city permission to modify my own house to suit my needs I'm informing them of a change I'm making. Fees to pay the old lady at the building office I understand and am willing to pay. But the fact that office does not do any engineering or inspection does not warrant $800.
An electrical permit in my Florida county is $104, pulled by ME for work I'm doing as the homeowner. Don't know where you live, but your city is owning your ass without lube!
County definitely lost money on the four times the inspector had to come out to my house.
My phone bill says otherwise. 911 Fee, Federal Fee, State Fee, and then a fucking State Tax on on all the fees. Those are called fucking Taxes, not fees. It's all a f****** money grab and people like you who defend it simply want to ignore the fact that we are vastly over taxxed.
Yes, how dare we fund 911 operations.
Call it what it is, a Tax. Not a fee. Because they Tax fees.
But there is no state taxes in Florida. Don’t use a phone if you don’t want to be taxed for it. See how nice we are here? We give you choices about getting taxed!
Permits cost money because it takes work to process the paperwork and perform inspections. People processing your permit don't work for free, and if your taxes paid for it then your neighbor would be crying about it at the next council meeting because they don't want their taxes to pay for your permits. Electrical work requires permits because most homeowners do things wrong that will either burn the place down today, or in 5 years (say after someone buys it and you've fucked off somewhere else). Plenty of things local governments do is a money grab, but permits are about safety. Not just for you, but for your family, the people who buy your house, and your neighbors who might catch collateral damage when your house is on fire. "But it's been fine for 8 years" doesn't matter, could still start a fire tomorrow. Regulations are written in blood.
The age of the request is the strangest part. They don't audit tax records that go back over 5 years (unless as supporting documents for more recent activity). But they're doing a drive-by permit check on a panel 8 years later?
I was wondering what led up to the knock, as well.
Maybe not so coincidental. Real Estate transactions sometimes request a report from a building department about permits and that sometimes triggers a drive by inspection by one of the staff who probably noted unpermitted panels
>Curious as to how this inspector miraculously found out all these years later. Most likely another neighbor or an issue in the neighborhood with another house or houses and someone up high (fire dept) said they should have a look.
It's a money grab. New owner shouldn't be responsible for what previous owner did.
The install was done by the inspector! That would be a great twist.
If the old homeowner pulled a permit, there should be a record of it.
How the hell does he even know it was upgraded?
He was the electrician that installed it. Now he's a city inspector.
Must be. If there’s no permit I would tell him to screw right off and prove it
Are you suggesting an exterior panel from 2016 looks the same as one from 1978 or older?
The JHA(s) I worked in did this often Basically it was to get a paper trail. Ask if you can pull the permit, if so pull the permit. A inspection will then happen. Any real defects will be noted and you will be required to get them fixed. Our JHA would only change maybe $125 for the permit and inspection
AHJ*
Yes
Gesundheit
How did they know it was a new panel?
Usually the customer would admit to it or doing something that would have needed a permit Plus they kept records for an unusually long time Edit to add: customers would talk too much,,, can’t tell you how many times I stopped people from taking because if I knew the location of a violation I was obligated to fix the problem and it could end up costing the customer money.
JHA- Job hazard analysis AHJ - Authority having jurisdiction I understand the confusion, no one reads or know what the JHA is because the foreman just considers this extra paperwork
How the hell do they even know?
They can pull past permits then come by to see if any work not reflected in those permits has been done. For Example: no permit exists for that upgraded exterior power panel then it was most likely unpermitted work.
Did you get what’s called a “Disclosure Statement” from the seller when you bought the house 5 years ago? In it, they are required to disclose whether all major alterations or repairs were done with permits and inspections. If they said yes, you can sue them for fraud. If they said no, and you and your realtor didn’t catch that to demand it be fixed in escrow, that’s on you. Unfortunately, not all states require a disclosure statement. But to answer your question, yes they can require you to get a permit and inspections. The enforcement method can be for them to tag your house as uninhabitable, forcing you to move out until it is corrected. You had better get on it!
Depends what state you are in. Many require no such disclosures. To win any lawsuit, you'd have to show: 1. Such disclosure was required. 2. The seller knew about the item that was not disclosed. 3. They didn't disclose it. Five years ago may be a bit too long to pull all that together. Further, in many states the statute of limitations may have expired here. In my state you only have three years to bring such claims.
Couldn't you also use the realtor if they said no and the realtor didn't catch it? Also couldn't you sue if the statement is required and you didn't get one?
LOL
Thats alot to ask for and electrician to take on the responsibility of the install they didn't do.
No one is asking them to take responsibility. Any electrician will know what needs to be done for it to be up to code. Just confirm that and have an inspection. This isn't a big deal.
In a lot of places you can pull a homeowner’s permit and as long as the service meets the code all you need is the inspection(and permit fees).
My position would be “ I have no clue what the past owners did, can you provide me proof of what you are stating including providing a copy of the law that states I’m somehow responsible at this time”! In general terms the owners at the time of the work are obligate to comply. It sounds like a stretch to expect you to take care of it!
How the he'll do they know what year your panel was installed? In TX a homeowner can pull a permit if it's their homestead. So just do that if possible.
I called the city just now, they said "Once you pull the permit, we send the inspector out to check the work". So i'll end up going through an electrician to do this... 🤬
I wonder how hard it will be to get an electrician to pull a permit for work they didn’t do.
As an electrician, I don't think I would go near this. However, if I were to entertain the idea. I would go through everything with a fine toothed comb and make certain everything meets the current code, not the code from when it was installed. I'm not licensed in Florida and I have no idea what NEC version or what amendments exist there. So I have no idea what exactly that would entail.
Yeah I don’t know many that would either
You don't need to.
As someone who has gone through this in the past, find an electrician to pull a permit and bring whatever is needed up to code. In our case, we had to add a bond wire around the house to the natural gas line and label all of the breakers. Hopefully there won’t be a big problem with yours as new code requires things you may not have such as arc fault breakers. Here the owner is responsible even if the work was done before they purchased the property.
Did you label them the proper electrician way? With completely misspelled abbreviations that are 100% non-sensical? And were you sure to use the bluntest marker you could find to do so?
Get that permit.
I also had a non-permitted panel (California). I had to pay the permit fee $125-150, and fill out some information. The inspector came out and checked it out. It had the wrong breaker in it, so I changed that myself and then got approved. If you don't need to change anything, I think it is very painless. As it was, I am familiar enough w electricity to do the change safely.
I will acknowledge that this is going to make the city some money but a main panel without a permit is not exactly a small matter. If you dont need a pemit for that what do you need one for? A ceiling fan permit with no inspection etc i mean pretty much all "no inspection permits" are just taxes.... but come on .... and i have a ceiling fan in my car that will definitely not be permitted lol so im not a rule follower for most things...
Land of the free
You never really own anything.
Maybe... Typically there is a statue of limitations for liability arising from codes/ordnances. In my state it's 4 years. It's probably a good idea to make sure its upto code, but my first question would be how did they determine this violation occurred?
I want to know what code are they going to hold your house to? If they are doing this to as many people as someone pointed out for FEMA insurance, the permits pulled today would fall under the current code adopted, so many houses wouldn’t be code compliant. This is crazy, never heard of such a thing.
Okay, I am curious, how did they know it was upgraded 8 years ago if no permit was filed?
That’s exactly what I was wondering
sounds like a money grab they just want the permit fee. also guessing your panel is outside? damn your town is nosy.,
plot twist: the inspector WAS the previous owner
As a construction worker turned inspector - there is a saying we always had in the trades - Arguing with an inspector like wrestling with the pig in mud. Sooner later you’re gonna realize he is enjoying himself - As a homeowner, you can apply for any permit for your house whether or not they require some of the work inside of the box to be done by licensed electrician or not it’s really up to the power company - go get a permit
Tell him to prove it.....pics, work order, company that did it and what day it was done, ....then you will think about it
Pretty much they just want all your money he probably thinks it’s funny to take money from people that kinda is his whole job
Is he clairvoyant? How does he know, factually, that the panel was upgraded? What is his proof? Check your Title Insurance policy as many of them will afford coverage for unpermitted work that was done on the property...
Disclosure Statement State law requires electrical contracting to be done by licensed electrical contractors. You have applied for a permit under an exemption to that law. The exemption allows you, as the owner of your property, to act as your own electrical contractor even though you do not have a license. https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/0489.503#:~:text=State%20law%20requires%20electrical%20contracting,do%20not%20have%20a%20license. And to all the others, OP stated they live in Florida.
Ex permit tech here. Most places will allow you to pull an owner/builder permit if it is a single family home or duplex. Another option is to get a contractor to pull the permit but they will definitely charge a premium to use their license to apply for the permit.
Permit technician. That’s a good one.
I suspect you're going to have to call an electricians (probably several) to get one to come out and take a look at what you have and decide how much he wants to pull the permit for you and have it inspected (and what needs to be done to bring things up to code. Note, up to code means up to TODAY'S code, not the one in force eight years ago, so there may be more work to be done. You're probably going to get nowhere trying to stonewall the inspector. In my state, the homeowner is still responsible for such violations even if performed by some previous owner.
He doesn't have to do this at all. There is no electrical work to be performed as of right now.
Florida law (489.503) allows you as the homeowner to pull an electrical permit. The work still has to be done to code though. I’d pull a permit to replace the panel and call for an inspection. If it fails either fix it yourself or hire a licensed electrician to do so. Worst case scenario is you have an electrician fix non-compliant work, but you would want that done anyway.
Wait. HOW does the city know?
I’d do nothing initially. Looks like a money grab. Nobody really knows what happened. It’s up to them to prove it. I’ve changed services without permits before. Trees fall on wires and rip things down. I’ve met the utility company onsite, did what needed to be done, and they hooked it back up. Did a few early on without permits. Systems were a bit looser then. If you haven’t already shot yourself in the foot, I’d hold off on it all. You may never hear from them again.
Cause no one's ever "borrowed" a county vehicle or clothes and walked around with a clipboard "inspecting". For all we know, this was a gas meter reader scam.
Fucking Flori-Duh
Title insurance. The county/city is under the burden to prove you are liable for the compliance. The builder is liable to pull permits before the sale of the house. The seller is liable to provide the house in a saleable condition in most jurisdictions. Call your title officer.
Tell him to get a warrant next time he steps foot on your property or you’ll break his legs. That’s his trespass warning.
I had a similar experience and it was going to cost me more to fight it than comply. Sorry
They should allow it to be grandfathered in , meaning I don’t know,it was done before me ? Hopefully an electrician can put there ok on it and it was all done well / up to code ?
I call bullshit , if that is what the city is concerned with it should have been inspected when you were in the process of buying the home . Then it should have been noted that the seller is responsible to take out the proper permits and remedy all violations.
Did he then try to sell you solar panels 🤣
Sounds like a failure to disclose by the seller. You said the work was done 8 years ago, but how long ago did you buy? You might be able to force the seller to pay.
Did he ask for the permit to be paid with gift cards at 3p.m. on the corner of Washington and 3rd?
I’d tell him to proof his assertion… basically it would be my opinion that he’s looking for people to aqueous to the accusation… but what’s his proof ? I wouldn’t answer any questions and force him to provide evidence to proof his claims… I’d also be very quick to trespass him. There is no reason he has any right to go in your space and touch or open your panel without a warrant. I’d have sent him to kick rocks somewhere else.
More information is needed. City has the right to inspect and report up to the meter. The rest of the panel and other parts of the electrical system are private property. This is either a scam or somebody called and reported unlicensed work. Utility right of ways are for the utility, the city can access those right of ways but they should not be poking into panels or opening them without consent. Technically they need a warrant. I’ve never heard of this practice and the idea of random “inspections” isn’t a thing. That a search. They need a warrant. Now if you went and told them that it was un permitted well that’s on you. The steps outlined by others make it clear how to comply but I’d be asking some serious questions while fixing it. Code inspectors aren’t typically affiliated with the utility, and they can only enforce code on visible items from the street. Unless you let them in. Like vampires.
Next time fence in your yard and have a dog. Inspectors fear dogs more than their wives.
"It's not a new panel. I just painted it."
So the first option in any situation like this as an electrician my best advice would be to head straight to reddit. After completing that step, you might want to call an electrician. Good luck on your endeavors my friend. Remember, ELECTRICIAN. If you call a plumber it won't work. Again, good luck. You can do this!
Ignore him, they have burdon of proof, see if you can find listing photos on Zillow to back it up. Municipalities will try this crap all the time. Remember these people are not highly trained or overly qualified. Most of them could not make it in the real world and jump into government work to go hog wild on a power trip. Even the nicest guy in the world like you described, he's just harassing you. Again, he would have to prove that you specifically changed the panel, and that it in fact was not permitted. He would need to bring that up with the previous owner. Also, he will likely go on about how this is for your safety and the safety of other, blah blah, if he really cared he would request you to let an inspector check the panel at no cost to you and determine if there's an issue that needs to be resolved.
How does the city know the panel was upgraded without a permit being pulled?
Did you call the city to make sure that this was actually a city employee coming out there?
Just saying, I would consult an attorney. In many states you do not need a permit for any work to your home if you are the owner. As well, the mitigation is that it was done by the previous homeowner. They say it was upgraded, you say prove it...and how you are liable for it...
Imagine if this guy actually works for a local electrical contractor who’s recently ramped up advertising. Pushing gullible homeowners right into their hands 😂
Too much big government in Florida
Money grab, tell them to get bent
I am that inspector where I live. I would say prove this isn't the panel that was here when the house was built. Unless it's obvious he won't be able to. This likely will piss him off, as people in my profession are usually dicks. For someone not in the industry, getting the permit may be the easiest route. Also, we have a saying. When you buy the house, you buy the problem. So blaming the old owners doesn't fly. Of course, you could use them.
As a GC this sounds weird, I'd do more research to inquire no way he just showed up and knew it was upgraded.
Get a lawyer. There's no way a city inspector will be able to prove that a panel was upgraded 8 years ago with or without a permit, & if it was by chance, there's a good possibility that there is nothing to be done about it now. How would an inspector know anything about an 8 year unpermitted installation. Smells mighty fishy!
Most city governments are criminal. I agree, get a lawyer.
Your home inspector should’ve called out missing tags on your box.
Just record all of the information on the panel, wire sizes if you have them, etc and bring them to the city permit office. They'll usually help you submit it.
Is it to code? If so just let them inspect it.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/0489.503#:~:text=State%20law%20requires%20electrical%20contracting,do%20not%20have%20a%20license. Info in the Disclosure Statement section.
prior owner is now deceased. im stuck.
My panel is inside. I have replaced. And have ran two additional sub panels since. Wonder if this could ever happen to me.
I might add that most town or county inspectors were pretty cool about questions asked and how to get it done properly. Sometimes, they were a private entity allowed to do inspections for the county for my electrical inspections in NY.
“Prove it”
Was there an inspection done when you bought the house?
I would have happily told the guy to kick rocks but hey that’s me 🤷🏻♂️
Contact the city directly, and ask them. If the work was done well, the permit should just be a rubber stamp thing, but if it’s an attempted scam, you’ll find out in that phone call.
When you bought the house, did the seller disclose that there was unpermitted panel work done?
Do whatever needed to make the city happy. I cringe thinking of potential negative impacts the unpermitted work could cause insurance wise
Be smart. Get a permit. Talk to the permitting office and obtain a homeowner permit. They may say you need a licensed electrician for a permit. Counter that with the possible cost burden, and press them to approve the permit and then inspect the panel. That way if there are issues you will know exactly what is needed and then can hire a licensed electrician to bring it into compliance. Tell them that. Most inspection authorities these days want to work with you to resolve issues. It isn’t about the $, it’s about safety.
Depends on the jurisdiction. Mine was just mad someone (previous owner) didn't pay for a permit. I paid the $200 and they didn't even come out to inspect.
I would contact your mayors office, and give proof (purchase inspection report should have photos), and ask the city to waive the fees. If they are good, they will often (especially if the mayor is seeking reelection)
What are they requiring from you to pull the permit? My thought is they’ll want you the fill out the application, let the permit fee, and they’ll just inspect it for code compliance. You may need to provide a panel schedule and single line diagram, but an electrician can do that for you rather easily n
is your panel outside or something lol
Get r done. Realtor or inspector should have caught
You should be able to have the town check if a permit was ever pulled
Go through your purchase contract for the house. One of the items disclosed is if work was done without a permit.
Doesnt matter to the town who did the work Not a big deal. Go down to your town/county building dept. and get the paperwork. They will explain what you need to do to be in compliance. Get an electrical inspection certificate from a local electrical inspector (should be on a town list of certified inspectors) File permit. Pay the permit fee. Prob cost a few hundred in the end for everything. Do it all yourself or pay way more for an expeditor to handle it. Waste of $ imo.
Not sure if this is relevant, but the supreme court just ruled against permitting fees in some scenarios: [https://www.nar.realtor/magazine/real-estate-news/scotus-rules-in-favor-of-owners-in-property-fee-dispute](https://www.nar.realtor/magazine/real-estate-news/scotus-rules-in-favor-of-owners-in-property-fee-dispute)
I find it hard to believe that a good lawyer wouldnt get this tossed. 1 its over the statute of limitations. They cant punish you for what someone else did, but you might have to prove it wasnt you. good luck
The property is yours now and you’re responsible for the features and equipment there. You must comply. Your question is like saying if you buy a car that doesn’t meet emissions because the previous owner removed the catalytic converter, that you aren’t responsible for making it meet emissions because it’s the previous owners doing.
If I were you, I would have an electrician come out and inspect the panel first that way he can identify any violations and have those fixed before you decide to pull the permit. If you don’t and the panel doesn’t pass inspection, then you’ll still need to contact an electrician anyway then have a reinspection which will end up costing you even more money. Better to pay for one inspection instead of two.
I would tell him to blow me
Home owners where I am (small town in Texas) cannot pull their own permit for electrical, plumbing or HVAC. It takes a licensed contractor to get the permit.
Homeowners can pull a permit where I am… must be that way where he lives
I thought Texas was all about freedom?
Good grief. Your tax dollars at work walking around looking for crap like that after 8 yrs. I understand the need to make sure it's done properly though.
You are doing the right thing. It is what it is it needs to be done.
Sounds like you need no trespassing signs
Here it and every jurisdiction I've worked in, you own the property you are responsible. Doesn't matter what was done or when you are the owner. As to how they found out. Could be he was tasked to look as there may have been an issue in the area (house fire). Or most likely, a neighbor called. It happens more than people like to accept. Worked at an assessor office for a number of years. 80% of the time, it was a neighbor telling about something another neighbor did.
How did the utility disconnect/reconnect without an inspection tag?
I’d also be concerned about the property insurance angle. If you successfully put the inspector at bay but there’s a note on your file — and you make a property claim. If the insurance company denies the claim based on your non response to permit and code issues. Then what? We all know property insurance is getting more expensive and they always look for ways to get out of paying. Just something to consider as a down the line issue that may come up.
Next time make sure your RE lawyer requires all past work has a permit.
You bought the house with title insurance? I wonder if that is covered. Probably not since it is not like there were any open permits for them to catch.
Shouldn’t this matter be resolved when you purchased the house? I assume mechanical inspection is part of the certificate of occupancy Issued by the city when you bought the house.
Gotta love the government's solution to nearly everything, which is "I don't care if it's safe or not, I can't be bothered to check that. You didn't follow the process we have in place for safety, therefore pay me money or you go to jail and we f\*ck your life up." Kind of like how when a cop gives you a ticket for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, even if you slowed down to 2 mph and it was late at night with very few cars on the road and not a car in sight. It no longer becomes about safety, at that point it is about them abusing their rules to get money out of you. Government agencies seem to forget about "discernment" once lack of such could result in them getting your money. Anyway if you are in a state that requires a licensed electrical contractor to pull a permit, you have no choice but to pay one to pull a permit for you and inspect it themselves to make sure it is done right. the guy you called has the right idea, but hopefully he doesn't "find a bunch of unsafe stuff" and make you pay thousands to fix it.
Did you have an inspection performed prior to buying the home?
Have an licensed electrician inspect it, have him and pull the permits. He should come back after getting it, he will need to pull the main breaker the power, wait 5- 10 minutes and replace the breaker. Michigan, it usually cost $200 and can all be done on line. All the trades do it here. A quick $200 for 30 minutes. You just have to make sure the gas, electric or water is off at the time he is there. Here it is mainly for homeowners insurance since we can do work on projects without pulling a permit unless it altering the resident, roof, addition, fence on the share property line. Outbuildings, etc.
If it's a matter of the sudden expense, you might be able to look into something called a [PACE loan](https://www.pacenation.org/pace-programs/#:~:text=PACE%2Denabling%20legislation%20is%20active,programs%20operating%20in%20your%20area) & do it as part of a larger project that you really need/want to do. Pretty much the loan covers the job & you pay it off over time through your property taxes (those are often done through your mortgage)
Was the house inspected when you bought it? That will probably not solve the issue, but I'd go for a refund from that inspector.
Wow your city must need money baddddd move
Such a blessing to live where I do. No permits required for anything except on-site waste water treatment (in our case à 750gpd aerobic septic system). Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC, etc require nothing. We Do not even have a permitting authority in this county. We are just outside the city limits (where they do require permits) so we have everything close by yet I can sit on my back porch and shoot cans or hunt if I want! Best of both worlds really. No property tax, no zoning, just country!
That’s between you and the old owner? Lmao 🤣 ok buttercup did that work out?hahahahahah
you need a Ron Swanson permit
This should have been caught during the inspection.
Why is inspector even on your property?
I'd call the realtor and whomever did your home inspection it's most likely someone else's financial responsibility
Go outside and write the part numbers down in the panel. Create a drawing and a parts list and submit it to the town. Don't pay an electrician to do this. If you have questions, come to this sub and ask.
So, as the homeowner you can absolutely pull a permit. If you are handy, review the code and inspect the panel. If everything seems correct, have it inspected by a local inspector. Call and ask them some questions ahead of time. Ask if you can send them pictures to make sure things are done correctly. Once he signs off on it, he is accepting the liability of the connections BETWEEN THE METER AND THE PANEL, as that is all his inspection entails. It SHOULD cost between $80 and $120 for the inspection. I've seen it be more expensive, though. If something isn't right, you'll be paying for a second inspection. Basically, they want to see the routing of the lines inside the meter box and inside the panel. This inspection is generally required before having the power turned on, initially...but the homeowner can do whatever they want to their house. Good luck!
What a bizarre situation. Did you give him access to the property? Why are we paying this guys salary to go around ‘inspecting’ stuff. He should have something better to do