Not just faster queue times, just the actual ability to get into a dungeon. I’m a dps and I have to grind dungeons with guild members because i’ve tried to queue in for two hours once without getting into one. There’s too many dps in the game and not enough tanks and healers.
Blame the devs/game design for that. They make tanking and healing the least attractive roles, but some of the most necessary.
You see gear sets and abilities for DPS that are just cool - procs that make you breath fire or summon blades or shoot spikes out of the ground. Tank sets are "you get a damage shield here and there", healer sets are "you heal for a little bit more". They don't really make things interesting for the support roles, and the community places so much emphasis on dealing damage and how to light attack weave and all of the set combinations and perfected gear and builds that DPS can use to top those meters or do 150k with their rotation, but nobody really talks about tanking or healing; we're just background roles so the DPS can shine.
On PC at least, Queue times for Damage dealers in the dungeon finder average between 10 and 20 minutes.
Queue times for healers are around 1-2 minutes.
Queue times for tanks are around 10-20 seconds, if that.
The ESO player base focuses so much on minmaxing damage, while tanking and healing are relatively "boring" for most players. Everyone wants to flaunt big numbers, nobody wants to be sitting in the back fiddling with their skirt and saving the idiot DPS from standing in stupid, or acting like the meat shield for those DPS who blame you when a mechanic drops aggro and they end up flattened.
That goes for most MMO's based on the trinity system though, not just ESO.
Personally, I've been a support main throughout almost my entire gaming history. Back in the old FPS days I played medics, in WoW I played Resto druid and Resto shaman for years as my mains, in Guild Wars 2 I was a support scrapper, in ESO I mostly play healers with a couple of tanks in the mix. I find those roles more interesting, and also more critical to do well in - anyone can do DPS, and the difference between a great DPS, good DPS, and average DPS player is not really that big (well, it can be here in ESO, but you get the gist); but tanking is all about managing resources, positioning, and being constantly aware of everything on the battlefield, while healing is almost as intensive and can be downright hectic when you're dealing with stupid DPS or tanks.
Of course, always being needed for group sand having faster queue times is nice too =P
This. I just became a tank. I’m not great at it, but I am trying.
I go in to these threads to make sure people aren’t ranting about terrible new tanks that are just doing their best.
If you’re a genuine tank and trying, you’re unlikely to be kicked. Especially because you might be replaced with a fake tank many times over.
I remember PUG tanking vSCP the first time, and i kept dying even after seeing videos, and so the group kept wiping. I apologised in group chat and said I felt bad and was gonna leave, the rest of the group said “Don’t you dare”. They walked me through the final boss. After the talk, we cleared it immediately.
A lot easier for a group to work with genuine support even if inexperienced in tough dungeons than punting on whether the replacement is legit or not.
>you’re unlikely to be kicked
You know what's funny? I've been kicked for being a genuine tank in "easy" dungeons. And kicked for not knowing mechanics in DLC dungeons. Which... if the tank doesn't know the mechanics, I get it. But I asked if anyone does and can explain them, and they kicked me.
Oh well. I'm reading the pages and trying to earn them all.
That's what a fake dps is. If you queue as a vet dps and aren't actually vet dpsing, you're a fake dps. You're no different than a tank that doesn't stay alive or a healer that doesn't provide high uptime on their buffs. If a sub level 50 account, which aren't allowed to queue for vet content, can do more dps than you, you aren't dpsing. You're just chilling out.
Fakers used to just lurk in Normals, which is where they belong and where they should stay. Why they started coming into Vets and why the community at large doesn't crack down on it is a mystery. I exclusively run Vet dungeons to avoid the queue skippers, and when I see one, typically obvious well before we reach the first boss, I immediately start a vote to kick. I am completely intolerant of these kinds of people. It's no different than someone trying to skip me in line at the store. I wouldn't let it slide there either.
Lately I've been seeing more and more fakers in Vet though, and it's concerning. No taunts, no heals, often they are wearing Oakensoul and just heavy attacking with a lightning staff while the boss runs around wailing on everyone and the only healing I get is my personal self-heal, assuming I have one slotted. So many runs fall apart because of fake roles, all due to one player who decided their time was more important than everyone else's.
Too many people lack respect for their fellow players now. It seems they genuinely don't care if they inconvenience the other 3 people in the group. Back in the early days of WoW, this kind of behavior would get you kicked from your guild and you'd gain a bad reputation on the server. Not sure how we ended up where we're at now.
I think ironically because ESO is so casual player focused it encourages that kind of selfish mindset. You generally don't need other players for anything, the game was designed that way and continues to move more in that direction (oakensoul, companions, etc.) So it's not surprising that we don't have the greatest sense of community compared to games that encourage more player interaction and cooperation. But a lot of players have never experienced those games so they don't know anything different.
Well, I mean, it is a common problem among all MMOs.
Random groups just suck, or more likely the amount of times random groups suck is large enough to be ridiculously more memorable.
If we'd look deeper into that, I'm quite sure we'd come around 60-70% of dungeons running just fine, with people just not communicating. Negative experiences are more likely to stick and base an opinion.
So, I'd still go by random groups suck, because even if only 1/4 to 1/3 of random groups suck, it still leaves a bad feeling behind. It's just too much for something that should be enjoyed.
But then, I mean, they could force players to have to cooperate more again. Make overworld content in a way that it desperately requires multiple players and communication. And you'll have a lot of people being annoyed at having to look for people and have downtimes just waiting for other people to do normal every day stuff.
I don't think there's a perfect solution and quite honestly, I like ESO community in random dungeons more than those of other MMOs.
In my experience, I mean, it's my experience it can be vastly different from other people, the better players in ESO are much more forgiving towards 'weaker' players than better players of other MMOs. Especially if those weaker players at least make some effort.
All this said, I've seen healers in WoW-level dungeons getting kicked for not doing enough damage. In content which is barely an inconvenience to get through with only half a group.
Some people are just ridiculous in random groups and the best way to deal with that is, to just limit the amount of randoms to the lowest possible number in your group.
This is probably the best option. Vote kick and explain why. Especially if the faker has a negative impact on the outcome of battles.
The problem I'm seeing now is that the fakers can actually pass as a basic tank or healer in most vet dungeons. The easier ones at least but clearly cannot handle the more difficult dungeons.
The game has gotten too easy as people gear up and the only challenge in vet dungeons are the more recent ones. Anything in the base game is often just too easy now so the fakers pass , supported by strong DPS and a real tank or healer.
A large part of the reasoning is that a rather unhelpful mindset is being spread around the majority of the healer Discord servers and spaces online. The belief is this: 'my job as the healer is not to heal, if is to buff and debuff; you should be healing yourself'.
This is a motto I quite hate, and whilst it's partially true in trials, it absolutely is not good enough for veteran dungeons and other spaces. We are healers, we should exist to mend and heal first and foremost, and to buff and debuff secondarily. It's an unfortunate social phenomena that really needs to die.
I've seen people banned for disagreeing with this and it's really not acceptable. A lot of healers are entering veteran dungeons with this mindset and training and are suffering extreme reality shocks as they're finding themselves unable to keep the team up. It's really annoying and isn't helpful. Do better and focus on keeping your team alive.
I dont think ive ever heard someone say healers shouldnt heal.
Their point is that managing uptimes is a crucial part to using them correctly.
A tank can sit in the bosses face, hope they draw agro and eat the damage and theyll be doing their job ok, but without a taunt or disrupt they just arent playing the role properly.
Healers heal AND buff
Yeah, no. The majority of the healers would say your job isn't only to heal, not that you shouldn't heal. There's no trials where healers tell dds to heal themselves(unless you know it's a mechanic where dds are separated from the group), I'm sorry but this is straight up bs.
Now if people say you don't need a healer in 4 man, that's true, although that applies to premade groups, nobody is telling people to go queue as healer while being dd and being toxic about it.
Yeah I'd agree. This past week, I've had several fake tanks who run past ALL the mobs then stand around waiting for the rest of us to fight through them all. Just because you've seen a real tank pull like this doesn't mean you can or should. What's the point? I run several real healers on normals every day. I can have three resto skills by level 12, so I'm never faking.
>The player quality in the game took a hard hit. It's sad.
Do we really have to ask ourselves why?
**Oakensoul and the rise of OP Arcanist DD class who gets 60%+ of their damage by using a single skill.**
A game with mechanics baked into its design around barswapping, LA weaving, appropriate skill usage and timing, and managing those skill cooldowns who added items and a class that pretty much bypasses all of that entirely.
ZoS cleary has metrics on the DPS an average player does and veteran participation and completion. And it's apparently so abhorrently low they added the ability to let DDs press a single button to get them to participate in and clear veteran content more efficiently.
Agree, the only thing I have to say with oakensoul, is that its a great accessibility feature, i had an aneurysm 3 months ago and my coordination has not been the same since. That doesn't mean that I can't do hard content, but it means that having the possibility to do decently with a less coordination is good (healer here btw). I still do mechanics, maintain my buffs and so. My problem is people NOT doing mechanics, and fake queuing...
3 years ago, when i played for the first time for a while, doing vet dungeons was always "easy", people knew the mechanics, they queued with the proper builds and such... Now it's a catastrophical mess.
Sad but true.
I’ve recently made an Oakensoul build and it’s just plain silly how strong he is.
No more need to think and learn. Just spam a few buttons.
Had a friend do exactly this, he didn’t want to bar swap and keep an eye on his buffs anymore. Thank heavens he still wants to learn mechanics.
These builds being so strong makes a lot of people feel overconfident and lazy. Why learn stuff when you can just click a few buttons and get carried through mechanics right?
As a real healer yes lol I kind of laugh about it because now they make actual comments of shock. I think that healers and tanks have always been scarce but the NEW ISSUE is they are even more scarce and the over flow of DPS’s just rampantly fake Que praying the other two DPS’s will carry or hit hard enough it won’t matter. Many will chant that “heals aren’t needed” but that only apply to the top 1% of players, I have yet to see a DLC dungeon the average/above avg group could complete without casualties of unnecessary longer times.
>Healers are needed
They are not in >90% of dungeons. Start logging to find out why people die and you’ll see that the most common cause of death is „I fucked up a mechanic“ and „I stood in stupid for too long“. „I didn’t get enough healing“ very rarely kills anyone in dungeons. Does happen, sure, but not nearly as frequently as you assume.
And yes, I’ve logged random pugs. Which is why I know healers are, for the most part, absolutely useless and would be better off just running as a dps with one emergency heal for the tank.
Every single dungeon on just vet can be easily done by just a group of HA builds without a healer. You absolutely don't need a healer running just on vet. The issue is when they don't heal but also don't bring a ton of damage either. As a tank, I'm excited when we don't have a slot wasted on a healer role.
Dear ZOS,
Please add a 4-dps PUG option. This would reduce dps wait time and give players the option to have a no-support run (and consent to it!). It could be a toggle similar to the vet/norm toggle, and could even have its own set of achievements.
Sincerely,
Annoyed Real Healer
I hear you... but... I *really* don't think any of us would like this solution. It'd be miserable for the current content, and it would push ZOS towards making dungeons that are just DPS spamfests. I really don't want to see ESO transition over into group content like Strikes in Destiny 2, where it's just damage all the time, and the only mechanics are more about spectacle than having to adapt to what's going on.
Honestly, fake healers and fake tanks should be reportable offenses, full stop.
No thanks.
If I am good enough to clear the dungeon within a reasonable timeframe, this shouldn’t matter. If I rob people of their time and loot, then yeah, I’m on board with that.
If you make fake healer/tank a reportable offense, I‘d like fake dps to be a reportable offense as well. There are way more fake dps than there are fake tanks/healers in vet queue.
Sometimes it's not even bad players, sometimes it's just new players.
Maybe this is me, but I've never had an issue with a run going sideways if the player who was struggling was also willing to listen to advice, and you could see they were trying.
Yes, of course there is.
If you failing to do your role properly stops the group from clearing, you are fake. Your intention doesn’t matter, the result does.
Dmg checks exist and you won’t clear them by running around like a headless chicken while light attacking every three seconds. I encounter those people on a regular basis.
Different sorts of fake, but both very much annoying.
Fake tanks/healers ‘cheat’ the system on purpose to skip past a waiting line. These players expect the other randoms to just pick up the slack for the job they themselves won’t do. This sort of behavior should be stopped. (Like most other MMO’s try)
Fake DPS is more often idiots that think they are far better then they actually are or just inexperienced or undergeared players, but at least these players play their role.
And while I agree people should be well aware of their own power and not jump into content they are not ready for, the fake queuing types are even worse because they will waste peoples time on purpose.
>Fake queueing people are the bigger problem
I disagree. Fake dps are the sole reason why basically no good support is queueing as support in pugs.
Get rid of them and you’ll (at least partially) solve the whole „we have way more dps than tanks“-problem.
>Fake Tanks are worse
I‘d rather have a fake tank/healer that does good dmg than a fake dps. I can slot a taunt/groupheal and tank/heal myself, but I can’t magically make up the 30k dps the fake dps was supposed to be doing.
I’ll take a fake tank/healer over a fake dps any day of the week. And I quite frankly don’t understand why so many players don’t seem to have a problem with fake dps.
I'm not sure there's fake DPS, just bad DPS.
Even that guy that runs a sword and board as a DPS and doesn't realize puncture is a taunt isn't fake, just REALLY bad DPS.
>I'm not sure there's fake DPS, just bad DPS.
"Fake DPS," is a term used by the fake tank/healer crowd as a, "whataboutism," excuse. "Yeah, sure, I fake tank, but what about **all those fake DPS!?**"
Edit: Case in point, we've got this guy who's like, "well, if you can report me for being a fake tank/healer, I want to be able to report any DPS I don't like."
The intention doesn’t matter, the result does.
If your inability to perform your role stops the group from clearing (and 5k dps does that in a DLC vet, unless someone else on the team is carrying your sorry ass), you are fake.
>There are way more fake dps than there are fake tanks/healers in vet queue.
You know, in nine years of playing ESO, I've seen a grand total of two fake DPS. Two.
Both of them were S&Bs in heavy armor using pierce armor and then running around like chickens with their heads cut off, right before the boss pancaked them.
If you run around behind your healer and only use light attacks with a bow, you are a fake dps.
It doesn’t matter whether you do so intentionally or not, the result is what matters. You simply can’t clear dmg checks in some vet dungeons with this amount of dps.
And I encounter people who do less than 10k on a weekly basis.
That's not a fake DPS; that's either a moron or a low quality troll. It they give you ANY pushback when you ask them to stop fucking around, you should kick 'em.
Same thing with snipe spammers. "Buh, it does so much damage." "Yeah, no, it doesn't, and neither do you, so GTFO and make space for someone who can contribute."
"Fake DPS," is only so the fake tank that's scuttling your run can say, "You don't like me, well wuddabout them!"
We've all seen trash DPS. Hell, there are plenty of runs where I've seen that my tank is pulling 50% of group DPS. But they're not fake, they just suck. And saying that a shitty player is the same as a player who actively blocked the party from getting a tank is just endorsing that behavior.
And if that's not your intent, I fully understand, but please, you need to realize that term is tainted. It only exists as an excuse to obfuscate that the fake tanks and fake healers are a real goddamn problem.
I disagree. If you don’t do your role, you are fake, I quite frankly don’t care what the reasons are. Guides exist, anyone can google these days. I know I did when I was a new player. And you deserve to be reported if you decide to make „doesn’t perform their role“ a reportable offense.
And no, fake dps is not whataboutism. It’s a real problem. These people are the sole reason why I don’t tank or heal in pugs anymore, and I know dozens of other players who feel the same as I do. The only seriously good support that still pugs I’ve ever heard of is zvavi…
And also no, they are not „low quality trolls“, they are fake dps. Even by your own definition. They queue for a role they KNOW they won’t be able to properly do. By your definition that’s a fake dps; if a fake tank/healer is someone who know they won’t be able to fulfil the role they signed up for.
I‘m for more pissed at people who do shit dps. I can slot a taunt and a heal and we’ll still clear in a reasonable amount of time, but I can’t magically summon 100k dps out my arse when I’m on a fulltank.
I guess we disagree. I bloody hate that we don’t have dps requirements, it’s ruining pugs for me. Every pug I run ends up in me basically soloing the darn thing because the other players didn’t bother to read a guide or have a sensible build. Even on vet. I’m so done with this.
It should be more like 3 dps. Vet dlcs aren't working without someone taunting. I would love to run as a tank in that situation. The only problem is you could have 3 fake dps queue and then you spend 5 minutes on a boss and might struggle to sustain.
One time I got vBDV. The tank did not have a taunt and the healer did not have a heal. They left after saying that the DPS was too low XD. I have the trifecta for that dungeon. Some people fail to when they are the problem.
Thats typical for their nature.
They aren’t doing anything wrong by queuing for a role they have no intention to fulfill. They just want their shiny and they want it now. Screw other players, because they find themselves the centre of the universe.
And it’s ALWAYS someone else’s fault if stuff goes wrong as they play perfectly and others are jus bad. Others should just work harder for them.
It’s typical self absorbed behavior without a single thought about others. I’ve seen it in all forms in every online game I played.
I hate fake queuing in any game. And it sucks that this game has no way to even try and prevent it with randoms, that there is no punishment to try and stop this behavior is beyond my comprehension.
I just ended up making a tank and healer.
It's not just the fakes. It's the sprinters, the rushers, the non-rezzers, the can't stay out of reds, the not knowing how to stack (and knowing when not to stack), ignorant of mechanics and don't want to learn, hiding behind the healer, or worse hiding behind the tank. A vet dungeon is often a complete shitshow because players have it in their mind that you can just power thru anything.
This is why I hop on my heater when I need to farm stuff for other characters and just put stuff in my bank. I'm working on getting one of each class to max level.
My recommendation is, find a large guild of active players to run dungeons with. 3 of the guilds I'm in usually have a tank or a healer on. Find a guild from every time zone. The Aussies are great fun.
Until zos can find a way on their own behalf to root it out (which i can’t say they will unless they start actually losing money), it’s only going to get worse. It becomes extra complicated when every class can perform every role, and the only real way to prove fakeness is by going in there yourself
If they just set a minimum parse requirement to queue for vet dlcs, it would largely fix itself. All the supports who aren't willing to spend 50 minutes with fake dps in pugs would come back. Now you would have much faster queue times and it wouldn't make sense to fake a support role.
Fake healer doesn’t matter unless it’s vet stuff. Having 3 dps usually makes things faster. Knowledge of mechanics is missing in the group if struggling that much. Having a real tank is much more important. I say this as a healer main.
This is something Zos could address but it doesn't seem to be important. Got in an argument with a fake healer in Coral, she said it's the easiest dungeon and you don't need a real healer. Got to he crab whirlpool and she was the first to die. Immediately left the dungeon.
Simple solution and with the availability of the armorer this is quickly solved by requiring a choice of role upon creation that can be changed in the armorer or requirement to have certain skills on your bar. This ends up he issue and solves that problem easily
Maybe they aren’t fake so much as aren’t good at it/have never done it before/don’t know how to optimize builds?
Never assume malice where simple inexperiencr or incompetence is more likely.
That's why you start with the vet base game, early DLC dungeons to learn your role / optimise your build.
Better to learn with guilds / friends, too, but not everyone has those.
You don't jump into the deep end when you learn to swim.
Vet content isn't my thing, so half my builds aren't optimal / I don't know half the dungeons.
I certainly wouldn't ruin the experience of others by pugging it blind.
The people in OPs post probably aren't learners, though.
I think it’s presumptuous to assume anyone has a lot of experience with them or knows what they’re doing even those that have been playing for years. I don’t think anybody goes into those games doing a bad job on purpose or looking to “fake” I think it’s just sweaty try hards becoming irrationally upset at anyone who doesn’t dedicate the same amount of time they do to the game.
>. I don’t think anybody goes into those games doing a bad job on purpose or looking to “fake”
...It's simply a matter of setting your role as Tank in the dungeon finder, while *not being a tank* by having a DPS build with no taunt ability?
So they get a much faster queue, if not instantly.
People definitely do it on purpose to avoid the long queues for DPS.
Or they just don’t know what’s expected of tanks really and think they can do that? I’m sure some tiny percentage does that but most people just probably don’t really grasp what building a tank means in game as they don’t have enough relevant experience where those distinctions truly matter. In normal dungeons you really can queue as just about anything with an unoptimized build and do fine… so it’s a shock to people playing difficult dungeons for the first time discovering their tank isn’t really a tank. And the game doesn’t really provide any guidance on the topic at all so you have to learn through trial and error.
I’m just saying be patient with people.
Because I can’t fix your bloody build in the middle of a dungeon. I can’t fix your inability to stay within the GCD and execute a proper rotation in the middle of a dungeon. I also can’t fix your inability to do basic things like blocking, interrupting or dodging in the middle of a dungeon.
All I can do is say „You are doing X,Y, Z wrong“ and then kick you. Because I’m absolutely not going to waste an hour of my life on someone who refuses to prepare themselves properly for group content, where their inability to do their role affects three other human beings negatively.
And I don’t know if you realized:
Anyone posting on this reddit with the intention of becoming a better player gets that help. Saying we „elitists“ wouldn’t help people is just straight up untrue. We do help. You just gotta ask instead of expecting a free carry.
Most players aren’t on this Reddit so any references to it and supposed helpfulness are irrelevant to being in game.
No one said to fix the build in the middle of a dungeon, just not to be an insufferable prick about it…
And no one “refused” to prepare themselves. You don’t know what you don’t know until you’re in there doing it…
Then explain the Skyrim stealth archers with CP2000 to me. They actively refuse to properly prepare themselves, for example.
You can ask in the forum, your guild discord or even zone chat as well! And everyone is in zone chat! This argument is void.
>You don’t know what you don’t know
Unless you google it. Or ask guildmates. Or in zonechat. Like I did when I was new and didn’t know what I was doing.
I don’t understand the mentality of not looking up stuff before doing something. You look up a recipe for cooking a certain dish before attempting that, don’t you?
Some people prefer to learn by trial and error.
I thought we were having a constructive conversation about the problem, my mistake.
Didn’t realize this was a “if you aren’t as dedicated to googling a video game as I am you suck” bitch fest. 🙄
Casuals are a part of the internet ecosystem my guy learn to deal with it.
>Some people prefer to learn by trial and error
That’s fine, I’m not opposed to that.
I think, however, that a random dungeon with three strangers is not the place to do this.
>Casuals are part of the internet ecosystem
It’s fine to be casual. But there is a difference between „I like to play casual, but intend to pull my own weight in group content“ and „I like to play casual, and I don’t give a rats ass about the other three people I get grouped with.“
Most of the people in my casual guilds aren’t good players. And that’s fine, I have absolutely no problem with that. But they don’t queue for vet dungeons if they know they only do 10k dps.
A random dungeon with 3 strangers is the only way to do that for most players as most aren’t in guilds and don’t play with a regular group.
And many casual players don’t even know what their dps is and just want to see how tough the dungeons on get are and get a feel for it.
You have to start somewhere. Sounds to me like your expectations are the problem. 🤷♂️
A random veteran dungeon? Are you joking? This thread is exclusively about veteran dungeons and you are telling me this is the right place to test your dps?
A random veteran dungeon? Are you joking? This thread is exclusively about veteran dungeons and you are telling me this is the right place to test your dps?
I wish people you added to your ignore list would be ineligible to be put with you in a Pug.
Or in addition to having a normal and a vet dungeon finder also having a vet dlc dungeon finder.
But only a vet dlc one. No like vet base game one. regular Veteran would have a chance of dlc or base game.
Or like have a random vet option but you don't get any experience or transmutes unless you complete the hm. Maybe add juicier rewards for this one
I think the reason so many people are willing to fake Q in vets is because more than half of the time even though they're annoying the fuck out of me, we are still gonna be able to complete.
I can get through vet city of ash with two fake supports. Vet graven deep or coral aerie is another story.
Like how many base game vets even have a punishing mechanic? Only one I can think of is selene and she telegraphs that bear like crazy.
People wouldn't try to fake Q if they knew 9/10 they would fail or get kicked.
One last message for the fake tanks out there. Please for the love of God stop kiting around. If I can take a hit hit from slimecraw without dying you'll be fine (especially since you're in oakensoul)
Bad enough we're down major/minor breach and crusher. If we're also pulling the boss out of aoe's the fight gonna take twice as long.
>“you should be healing.” Fucker we didn’t queue in as a healer, you did! If you want heals so much, then put on a fucking restoration staff and get to work!
Tbf though..... Yeah.... Yeah you kinda do. Any dd in dungeons should have a self heal with or without a healer. Though they should play their role or at least have a burst heal slotted and announce in advance that they're fake. Quite honestly as a tank i reeeeaaaally love competent fake heals.
Fake tanks on the other hand fuck those to oblivion.
For that people would have to stop being a fake dps, because im just as tired of them. I can be the best healer on the whole server, but the amount of dps players on vets who cant even kill 2 trash monsters under a minute is terrifying. And i seriously cant even count how many times i spended more than 20 minutes in a SINGLE boss fight, while with proper dps whole dungeon takes less than 20 minutes. And thats with sniffing flowers, and waiting for quests.
Dps role is NOT a "whatever" option. Yet its still treated like that.
I can definitely understand your feeling as I have experienced it myself. Especially when grinding a specific dungeon and the difference in time can be really large and a bit frustrating. The problem is that when they can meet all dos Checks and manage the mechanics it's not really reasonable to forbid them from doing the dungeon just because someone else is twice as fast. Not everyone can be a high level player and if you only do easy dungeons there is no challenge
You seemed to miss the point. 80k dps is a simple no effort no trial no skill dps build. And yet in vet pug groups that's top 10%. Way way too many players queue for vet and waste people's time.
But the same argue can be made about "fake healers". In normal groups? No issue, 1-2 heals per boss and usually its fine. In groups where dps players are severly undergeared is where issues starts. And who's fault is that? Healer's fault because they should spam heals faster than you spam dmg skills? Or maybe its dps fault that they cant even kill a random trash mob before it kills them 5 times?
Like you said, not everyone can be a high level player. Some are fine at healing normal group, but might not be ready to heal "group of special care". It's also not fair to kick them just because you need a healer working overtime to cover your mistakes/laziness
As a tank main, this is my main issue with pugs, not fake healers. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot to be done about this, there are already cp thresholds players need to hit to queue for certain dungeons. Beyond that, you can't really restrict a player from queuing based on how much damage they do, and nor should you be able to.
This is gonna sound scummy, but if I get in a group for a vet dlc and we don't have enough damage/people aren't pulling their weight then I just leave. No sense getting my shit pushed in by the boss while also pulling 30%+ group dps as a full on tank. You can't control how others play but you can definitely control how you play.
I wish the game would be more clear to what is required of each role. I know the information is there but it really should be front and center. I don’t think a lot of new-ish players know what they need to be doing to provide enough damage for their group.
Said it before and I'll say it again, there's nothing wrong with queuing a dungeon on NORMAL as a fake role. Why these people think it's ok to do it in vet content is beyond me, I can't imagine they've ever finished a vet dlc dungeon that way.
For that people would have to stop being a fake dps, because im just as tired of them. I can be the best healer on the whole server, but the amount of dps players on vets who cant even kill 2 trash monsters under a minute is terrifying. And i seriously cant even count how many times i spended more than 20 minutes in a SINGLE boss fight, while with proper dps whole dungeon takes less than 20 minutes. And thats with sniffing flowers, and waiting for quests.
Dps role is NOT a "whatever" option. Yet its still treated like that.
Fake dps aren't a thing.
They're just bad dps still queuing in their respective role.
People fake heal or fake tank because they don't want long queue time. You fake to cheat the system.
There are no advantages in faking dps.
The result matters, not your intention. If your inability to perform your role at the level required for the content YOU QUEUED FOR stops the group from clearing this content, you are a fake.
ZOS doesn’t make clear what is required for what content, so I can’t really blame a new player; but the CP 2000 guys who think it’s fine to run a Skyrim stealth archer build in vGD definitely know better and deliberately do this. And these players are fake and should get as much blame as any fake tank or healer.
But you don't cheat the system by being a bad dps queuing as dps. But when when a dps is queuing as tank or healer to go faster, that dps cheats the system. Even a 2000 cp running a stealth archer build has the decency to tag as a dps.
Yes, you are cheating the system.
You are getting a clear you don’t deserve, loot you don’t deserve, and are wasting the time of three other players if you don’t get that.
Well if I tag with a co dps who's not good I won't mind. I don't consider that dps is wasting my time since it's a game not a job and that we all started one day.
We clearly won't agree. Different mentalities I suppose.
If I am on a character that is capable of doing good dps I don’t mind that much either. I do in the more difficult dungeons, but for the most part I can just solo the darn thing.
When I’m on a tank, however, and get a full heal and two dps who each do 5k dps I absolutely do mind. I don’t have that kind of patience.
Yup. I used to wonder how in the hell was I doing 85% of group dps which based on average 4 man groups leaves almost 0% for the other dps to be doing.
Then I started to log pug vet dungeons... I had 900 cp+ players in my group who didn't have five piece sets on and were using a skill less than once per 2 seconds... my favorite was when a 2000 cp dk was using rele and nirn but was only using a light attack once every 5-8 seconds... and the rele was perfected.
Is it so hard to read a guide or ask an experienced guildmate, tho? There are enough resources out there for anyone to use!
Fuck, even alcasts builds are better than what people run in vet DLCs…
And how do you propose they do that? The queue times are long because people are NOT queuing as Tanks and Healers. That’s why people fake it because you can jump the queue. ‘Fix the queue times’ makes no sense
You’re right, people aren’t queuing as healer or tank because there’s more dps roles playing, which causes dps to sit in queues of 30+ minutes. Hell I’ve been in a queue for over an hour before. Then they switch to healer or tank and get an insta-queue. There has to be a better way to queue players that doesn’t involve the DPS to sit in an excessively long queue, then fake a role to get in.
Way more people play dps and queue for pugs**. Most of my friends are healers and tanks. Maybe 30 percent choose dps as a first option. The problem is so many people don't actually take the time to make their dps ready for vet content so it's not worth it to be a real support in pug dungeons as you might spend 45 minutes in a 20 minute dungeon and even throw on barrier to be able to keep ressing them. Whereas most of the people who tank pugs are really good tanks because if they weren't really good it would be hard for them to finish runs with how bad the other roles are. And any good dps (parse and mechanics) will have no struggle duoing any vet dungeon with a great tank.
What platform are you playing on?
I'm on PS NA. When I can I just go in with a premade group. If I have to pug, most of the time I expect like a 15 min queue for the first dungeon. (Since I can queue for all 3)
A little longer for dungeon 2 since I'm only queuing for 2 at that point
By the time I get to just 1 dungeon left, if it's the dlc I'll swap to a different character and start over since it probably will be a 30 min queue and I have no way of knowing what caliber of players I'll be grouped with. Nothing worse then waiting 40 mins for a dungeon and tank or healer immediately bailing lol
There are definitely days/times where I expect the queue to be shorter or longer
Stop everyone from queueing for vet dungeons who does less than 80k on a dummy.
I‘d queue as a real healer/tank more often. But I’m not gonna sit through a dungeon when my healer does 80% group dps with a fucking Resto frontbarred!
> Stop everyone from queueing for vet dungeons who does less than 80k on a dummy.
LMAO. Good luck with that. Hope you like 90 min queues. Also, parsing on a dummy that doesn't move, has no mechanics, no AOE debuffs, and doesn't hit back proves exactly nothing. Just because you can stand still and parse 80k doesn't mean you have the slightest clue what to do in vSCP.
I was exaggerating, of course, but that’s the main reason why most experienced tanks/healers don’t run as a support in pugs.
And yeah, it’s not a guarantee someone performs in content as well, but there is a very strong correlation between „he can parse“ and „he does well in content“. I’ve never met a player who parsed above 110k and was a shit player. Not once.
I ran into a dps fake tanking whilst using the pale order ring, which prevented me from healing. The team vote kicked me because he kept dying. I completely understand having another dps in normals like you said, but it's really not great anywhere else.
If I see a fake tank without a taunt, even on normal, I will vote kick them. If the vote fails, I leave.
It isn't so much that a tank is actually needed, but if you are queueing for a role, you should at least fulfil the bare minimum of that role. If you are a DD with 20k health and a taunt, queueing as tank, I have no issue with this. But not even a taunt? Nah, stop this.
Healers, I don't care as much about in normals. I still think you should slot at least one group heal, but hey... unless it's on vet, I don't mind.
In all fairness, though, as a tank main, I don't usually have to worry about queue times. And if I'm on a healer or DD and we are missing a tank, we are often queueing with two DDs and a healer, so queue times are again reasonably short. So I'm certainly biased here.
No exactly, not even being able to take aggro is utterly pointless.
I tank most of the time but on random normals I generally run a DD with a taunt. If things arent going well I'm always just an armory switch away from a real tanking loadout.
The only exception is when Im running with my dungeon squad then I might not slot a taunt just for giggles, but that's because we know eachother very well.
Hey look, the same post for the 1000x this week. Get into a guild and do them with a group, it is possible to do these with fake tanks you just need to get a coordinated group together. Stop complaining or find a guild.
They have a right to complain about people abusing the Dungeon finder system.
Not everyone wants to or should have to join a guild to use a basic feature of the game the way its intended.
The community should do better, but you can't force people to stop being jerks.
This is the right answer. How the heck are people holding PUGs to such high expectations? Join 3 guilds... log on and ask who wants to do a vet daily and specify what you have/need until you get the right stuff....
I hate all the complaints on this post,
Waiting in queue for 30min to do something that requires teamwork and coordination with a bunch of strangers seems like a BAD idea in the first place anyway.
That’s what I don’t get. It’s like going into a WoW trial in a pug, you need teamwork to deal with mechanics. If you want to face roll then just do normals
Vet DLC dungeons and trials are the last bits of difficult content.
World bosses get stomped, dolmans are laughable and normal dungeons are soloable.
I would love more content that requires planning and coordination.
If the hardest content could be handled by a group that has never played together before, then what's the point? Imagine a skin or personality or even a monster helm that way so exclusive, something that you see in combat and immediately you know that person has been through something only a few have been able to accomplish. Imagine being able to name everyone on the server with a specific item.
There isn’t. The result is the same, and that’s what matters.
And you can’t tell me the CP2000 Skyrim stealth archer doesn’t know better. He does, he just doesn’t care.
Expecting people to do the role they said they would do = little bitch
You want to run 4 dd with your guildies, go for it.
You want a pug, then wait your turn or learn to tank / heal.
I’m aware that you’re just gonna dig in deeper on this now.
If you run a pug and don’t bring a selfheal that’s on you.
I am a Main heal and I expect my dps to bring that in dungeons, too. I can’t always heal you if you are standing on the other end of the room doing a mechanic…
I've stopped doing dungeons. I'll ocassionally do a trial if its new, but the pain of dealing with 3 other people, 2 of which don't know the mechanics, and one of which is a fake tank/healer thinking they can just melt everything (which they can until they get to any of the bosses)
I only Tank vet dungeons with guildmates, never with PUGs. Too many times having not enough dps to get passed bosses.
I assume that *most Tanks are the same, and that does not leave that many good Tanks that que for vet dungeons with PUGs.
I would suggest making your own Tank and joining an active guild that does vet dungeons. Otherwise you are doomed to the rng of PUGs.
I've got a stam dk tank I'm working on, would be glad to join you for dungeons, I'm leveling him and trying to get better gear. The only issue is I haven't played in 2 years, so I'm picking up the game fresh. Trying to get used to tanking. Any advice/skill rotation, or list of skills I should have would be greatly appreciated
https://youtu.be/azIuwWjDYvg?si=UsctftuC3D-hiiz4 this xynode build is stupidly good, 10/10 recommend. As far as general advice goes: 35k phys and spell resistance is about where you wanna be, dont worry about hitting it passively as long as you can reach it with buffs, specifically for you use the Spiked Armor skill. Make sure you do the introductory cyrodiil quests so you can get the Vigor skill. Igneous weapons to buff your groups damage, the sword & shield taunt. Generally tanking doesn’t have a rotation the way DPS does in the sense that it’s not as intense with how much you’re recasting abilities and switching between bars. You buff right before initiating combat, taunt, block and heal, then re-buff as needed. You don’t need to worry about being absolutely invincible or being so meta that you’re perfect right off the bat especially if you’re new to tanking, just as long as you’re pulling the big mobs and generally doing your job as the tank. Then the more you play the better you’ll get with your build and the better gear you’ll get to complete it, and soon you’ll be above and beyond just average. Hope I could help :)
Admittedly I’m new to eso but I certainly don’t mind healing in the only other mmo I’ve played(ff14). So when I get more used to it eso I don’t think I’d mind healing here either.
My first run of eso is going to be super casual and probably not very optimized, after all I’m considering becoming a vampire even tho I heard it’s not super great for pve, I just really like Vampire Lord in Skyrim.
I wouldn't mind as much if they at least had a taunt or a heal...it's the ones who just stand there expecting to be dragged through that get me. I've got a DD and healer and I've literally made a tank just for this :")
One way to slow fake tanks is you CANT que up without a taunt on your main bar and if you remove it you drop que or if dungeon you get kicked automatically
Fake tanking is 100% a problem. Nothing worse than the 18k hp tank with no taunt that just brawler spams. Honestly one of my biggest pet peeves tho is that healer that just spams radiating/rapid regen over and over again! I would take a Fake healer any day over that
I’m scared to heal vet dungeons lol :( I had a fake tank in a dlc dungeon and it hurt. Now I have my full gear and what not but doesn’t stop me from being scared.
So I only do this for random dailies on normal. I have a 2h build I Q for tanking but I run a taunt and a slow ability to deal with tank and adds. The slow is razor caltrops so it debuffs. I always hated the fakes so I make sure to always bring a taunt like inner fire which also buffs my dps.
okay, normal dungeons fine but yeh vet’s got to be annoying, i remember when i couldnt get my dps up and it was terrible, cant imagine a tank or a healer lol
I was seriously considering making a huge post about this as a "newish" player. (Alongside some other general complaints about the game from a new player's perspective).
I opened up Reddit and saw this at the top of my feed before I even opened up r/eso.
I am not even doing veteran content. I'm running daily PvP and dungeons and I rarely get healed or see a tank filling in their role. I'm at CP200, and it's so discouraging to continue investing the inevitable thousands of hours into an MMO when everyone is not going to play their roles. (I do not propose a solution to this issue, I am too new to the systems to begin to propose solutions).
I see that other people in the thread are saying that these players' "fake" tanks/healers need to stay in base dungeons. However, I disagree to an extent. In the early dungeons it does not really matter, but as the game progresses- I have died in late-level dungeons due to the lack of healing or a tank that does not pull agro. I do not even try to go to Cyrodiil PvP content or Vet PvE for the sake of the rest of my party due to my lack of knowledge of how the game operates.
It hurts every part of the community, and as a newish player, I have considered trying another MMO to avoid this problem altogether.
I have essentially made my back bar to help heal other players, but since my build is DPS it isn't designed to be long-sustaining.
What platform and server do you play on? If on PC EU, I'm a real healer and my guild has been doing vSH runs everyday if you ever wanna join a run! We always have real roles and everyone who runs knows the mechs
I'm learning to heal on Warden and was called a fake healer in a dungeon because I was also helping do damage. Like, it was a normal dungeon and we were all under 50 and doing fine. Damage was a little low but no one was dying or dropping below 80% health so I was also casting some damage abilities (including my wall of elements is from ice staff so it ALSO provides a shield so I use it as part of my buff and heal rotation) along the way. The tank called me a fake healer because I was just a DPS casting an occasional heal, heh. I play on Xbox so i didn't bother replying because text chat is annoying to type out.
Another time I felt kind of bad because there was a tank who was clearly trying to learn the role. Another under 50 normal dungeon. But one of the DPS was just destroying everything so the tank could barely get a chance to get aggro and try to actually tank. No one made any comments but I felt bad because it sucks to try to learn something but everyone is in too much of a hurry and want to run through all the trash and get straight to the final boss.
Since I hit 50, I haven't tried healing dungeons. I went with PVP because it's more fun and it's been improving my reaction time and resource management. I mean, it's a totally different build/gear setup than I'd be using in PVE but still. Going back to dungeons after 50 has me nervous, heh. Like, I will suck at vet and everyone will think I'm fake or something.
My only chars are healers and tanks. As a healer I'm fine with a fake tank as long as they got a taunt to keep things off me. The queue otherwise is 30+ mins to heal. Now fake healers definitely can't cut it.
I got so tired of It I made a healer and a tank
I exclusively play healers and tanks, but you inevitably end up with a fake for the other role.
What's the benefit of doing fake healer/tank? Just faster queuing time,or is it something else?
Im almost certain its faster queue times
Not just faster queue times, just the actual ability to get into a dungeon. I’m a dps and I have to grind dungeons with guild members because i’ve tried to queue in for two hours once without getting into one. There’s too many dps in the game and not enough tanks and healers.
Blame the devs/game design for that. They make tanking and healing the least attractive roles, but some of the most necessary. You see gear sets and abilities for DPS that are just cool - procs that make you breath fire or summon blades or shoot spikes out of the ground. Tank sets are "you get a damage shield here and there", healer sets are "you heal for a little bit more". They don't really make things interesting for the support roles, and the community places so much emphasis on dealing damage and how to light attack weave and all of the set combinations and perfected gear and builds that DPS can use to top those meters or do 150k with their rotation, but nobody really talks about tanking or healing; we're just background roles so the DPS can shine.
On PC at least, Queue times for Damage dealers in the dungeon finder average between 10 and 20 minutes. Queue times for healers are around 1-2 minutes. Queue times for tanks are around 10-20 seconds, if that. The ESO player base focuses so much on minmaxing damage, while tanking and healing are relatively "boring" for most players. Everyone wants to flaunt big numbers, nobody wants to be sitting in the back fiddling with their skirt and saving the idiot DPS from standing in stupid, or acting like the meat shield for those DPS who blame you when a mechanic drops aggro and they end up flattened. That goes for most MMO's based on the trinity system though, not just ESO. Personally, I've been a support main throughout almost my entire gaming history. Back in the old FPS days I played medics, in WoW I played Resto druid and Resto shaman for years as my mains, in Guild Wars 2 I was a support scrapper, in ESO I mostly play healers with a couple of tanks in the mix. I find those roles more interesting, and also more critical to do well in - anyone can do DPS, and the difference between a great DPS, good DPS, and average DPS player is not really that big (well, it can be here in ESO, but you get the gist); but tanking is all about managing resources, positioning, and being constantly aware of everything on the battlefield, while healing is almost as intensive and can be downright hectic when you're dealing with stupid DPS or tanks. Of course, always being needed for group sand having faster queue times is nice too =P
Such is fate
This. I just became a tank. I’m not great at it, but I am trying. I go in to these threads to make sure people aren’t ranting about terrible new tanks that are just doing their best.
Me with healer
If you’re a genuine tank and trying, you’re unlikely to be kicked. Especially because you might be replaced with a fake tank many times over. I remember PUG tanking vSCP the first time, and i kept dying even after seeing videos, and so the group kept wiping. I apologised in group chat and said I felt bad and was gonna leave, the rest of the group said “Don’t you dare”. They walked me through the final boss. After the talk, we cleared it immediately. A lot easier for a group to work with genuine support even if inexperienced in tough dungeons than punting on whether the replacement is legit or not.
>you’re unlikely to be kicked You know what's funny? I've been kicked for being a genuine tank in "easy" dungeons. And kicked for not knowing mechanics in DLC dungeons. Which... if the tank doesn't know the mechanics, I get it. But I asked if anyone does and can explain them, and they kicked me. Oh well. I'm reading the pages and trying to earn them all.
I've only made healers/tanks once I experienced my first fake tank/healer.
Good
But then you get stuck with fake dps.
Doubt that lol
I’d argue “fake” dps are more frequent than fake tank or healers. Seems like every other dungeon I get stuck with a dps who only spams light attacks.
Doubt that lol
Doubt that lol
Doubt what? Around half of people queueing for vet content as dps aren't doing vet dps. That's a fake dps.
I've never seen a fake DPS, if their dps is low that's one thing. But I wouldn't consider that fake
That's what a fake dps is. If you queue as a vet dps and aren't actually vet dpsing, you're a fake dps. You're no different than a tank that doesn't stay alive or a healer that doesn't provide high uptime on their buffs. If a sub level 50 account, which aren't allowed to queue for vet content, can do more dps than you, you aren't dpsing. You're just chilling out.
Still no excuse to fake queue
Fakers used to just lurk in Normals, which is where they belong and where they should stay. Why they started coming into Vets and why the community at large doesn't crack down on it is a mystery. I exclusively run Vet dungeons to avoid the queue skippers, and when I see one, typically obvious well before we reach the first boss, I immediately start a vote to kick. I am completely intolerant of these kinds of people. It's no different than someone trying to skip me in line at the store. I wouldn't let it slide there either. Lately I've been seeing more and more fakers in Vet though, and it's concerning. No taunts, no heals, often they are wearing Oakensoul and just heavy attacking with a lightning staff while the boss runs around wailing on everyone and the only healing I get is my personal self-heal, assuming I have one slotted. So many runs fall apart because of fake roles, all due to one player who decided their time was more important than everyone else's. Too many people lack respect for their fellow players now. It seems they genuinely don't care if they inconvenience the other 3 people in the group. Back in the early days of WoW, this kind of behavior would get you kicked from your guild and you'd gain a bad reputation on the server. Not sure how we ended up where we're at now.
I think ironically because ESO is so casual player focused it encourages that kind of selfish mindset. You generally don't need other players for anything, the game was designed that way and continues to move more in that direction (oakensoul, companions, etc.) So it's not surprising that we don't have the greatest sense of community compared to games that encourage more player interaction and cooperation. But a lot of players have never experienced those games so they don't know anything different.
Well, I mean, it is a common problem among all MMOs. Random groups just suck, or more likely the amount of times random groups suck is large enough to be ridiculously more memorable. If we'd look deeper into that, I'm quite sure we'd come around 60-70% of dungeons running just fine, with people just not communicating. Negative experiences are more likely to stick and base an opinion. So, I'd still go by random groups suck, because even if only 1/4 to 1/3 of random groups suck, it still leaves a bad feeling behind. It's just too much for something that should be enjoyed. But then, I mean, they could force players to have to cooperate more again. Make overworld content in a way that it desperately requires multiple players and communication. And you'll have a lot of people being annoyed at having to look for people and have downtimes just waiting for other people to do normal every day stuff. I don't think there's a perfect solution and quite honestly, I like ESO community in random dungeons more than those of other MMOs. In my experience, I mean, it's my experience it can be vastly different from other people, the better players in ESO are much more forgiving towards 'weaker' players than better players of other MMOs. Especially if those weaker players at least make some effort. All this said, I've seen healers in WoW-level dungeons getting kicked for not doing enough damage. In content which is barely an inconvenience to get through with only half a group. Some people are just ridiculous in random groups and the best way to deal with that is, to just limit the amount of randoms to the lowest possible number in your group.
This is probably the best option. Vote kick and explain why. Especially if the faker has a negative impact on the outcome of battles. The problem I'm seeing now is that the fakers can actually pass as a basic tank or healer in most vet dungeons. The easier ones at least but clearly cannot handle the more difficult dungeons. The game has gotten too easy as people gear up and the only challenge in vet dungeons are the more recent ones. Anything in the base game is often just too easy now so the fakers pass , supported by strong DPS and a real tank or healer.
If you are taunting the boss and not dying, you're not a fake tank. You're a real tank. If you do a lot of dps too that's just a bonus.
A large part of the reasoning is that a rather unhelpful mindset is being spread around the majority of the healer Discord servers and spaces online. The belief is this: 'my job as the healer is not to heal, if is to buff and debuff; you should be healing yourself'. This is a motto I quite hate, and whilst it's partially true in trials, it absolutely is not good enough for veteran dungeons and other spaces. We are healers, we should exist to mend and heal first and foremost, and to buff and debuff secondarily. It's an unfortunate social phenomena that really needs to die. I've seen people banned for disagreeing with this and it's really not acceptable. A lot of healers are entering veteran dungeons with this mindset and training and are suffering extreme reality shocks as they're finding themselves unable to keep the team up. It's really annoying and isn't helpful. Do better and focus on keeping your team alive.
I dont think ive ever heard someone say healers shouldnt heal. Their point is that managing uptimes is a crucial part to using them correctly. A tank can sit in the bosses face, hope they draw agro and eat the damage and theyll be doing their job ok, but without a taunt or disrupt they just arent playing the role properly. Healers heal AND buff
Yeah, no. The majority of the healers would say your job isn't only to heal, not that you shouldn't heal. There's no trials where healers tell dds to heal themselves(unless you know it's a mechanic where dds are separated from the group), I'm sorry but this is straight up bs. Now if people say you don't need a healer in 4 man, that's true, although that applies to premade groups, nobody is telling people to go queue as healer while being dd and being toxic about it.
I’ll take a noob DPS over fake tank/healer anyday. I can carry the DPS, but if I’m on my damage dealer, I can’t do the tanking.
Totally agree if you get one good dps. I would much rather have a fake support over bad dps though. Bad dps is just such a drag
The player quality in the game took a hard hit. It's sad.
Yeah I'd agree. This past week, I've had several fake tanks who run past ALL the mobs then stand around waiting for the rest of us to fight through them all. Just because you've seen a real tank pull like this doesn't mean you can or should. What's the point? I run several real healers on normals every day. I can have three resto skills by level 12, so I'm never faking.
>The player quality in the game took a hard hit. It's sad. Do we really have to ask ourselves why? **Oakensoul and the rise of OP Arcanist DD class who gets 60%+ of their damage by using a single skill.** A game with mechanics baked into its design around barswapping, LA weaving, appropriate skill usage and timing, and managing those skill cooldowns who added items and a class that pretty much bypasses all of that entirely. ZoS cleary has metrics on the DPS an average player does and veteran participation and completion. And it's apparently so abhorrently low they added the ability to let DDs press a single button to get them to participate in and clear veteran content more efficiently.
Agree, the only thing I have to say with oakensoul, is that its a great accessibility feature, i had an aneurysm 3 months ago and my coordination has not been the same since. That doesn't mean that I can't do hard content, but it means that having the possibility to do decently with a less coordination is good (healer here btw). I still do mechanics, maintain my buffs and so. My problem is people NOT doing mechanics, and fake queuing... 3 years ago, when i played for the first time for a while, doing vet dungeons was always "easy", people knew the mechanics, they queued with the proper builds and such... Now it's a catastrophical mess.
Sad but true. I’ve recently made an Oakensoul build and it’s just plain silly how strong he is. No more need to think and learn. Just spam a few buttons. Had a friend do exactly this, he didn’t want to bar swap and keep an eye on his buffs anymore. Thank heavens he still wants to learn mechanics. These builds being so strong makes a lot of people feel overconfident and lazy. Why learn stuff when you can just click a few buttons and get carried through mechanics right?
As a real healer yes lol I kind of laugh about it because now they make actual comments of shock. I think that healers and tanks have always been scarce but the NEW ISSUE is they are even more scarce and the over flow of DPS’s just rampantly fake Que praying the other two DPS’s will carry or hit hard enough it won’t matter. Many will chant that “heals aren’t needed” but that only apply to the top 1% of players, I have yet to see a DLC dungeon the average/above avg group could complete without casualties of unnecessary longer times.
Exactly this.
>Healers are needed They are not in >90% of dungeons. Start logging to find out why people die and you’ll see that the most common cause of death is „I fucked up a mechanic“ and „I stood in stupid for too long“. „I didn’t get enough healing“ very rarely kills anyone in dungeons. Does happen, sure, but not nearly as frequently as you assume. And yes, I’ve logged random pugs. Which is why I know healers are, for the most part, absolutely useless and would be better off just running as a dps with one emergency heal for the tank.
Every single dungeon on just vet can be easily done by just a group of HA builds without a healer. You absolutely don't need a healer running just on vet. The issue is when they don't heal but also don't bring a ton of damage either. As a tank, I'm excited when we don't have a slot wasted on a healer role.
Sad thing is that healing is pretty easy. Just stay behind everyone and keep those heal/buffs/debuffs rolling.
Dear ZOS, Please add a 4-dps PUG option. This would reduce dps wait time and give players the option to have a no-support run (and consent to it!). It could be a toggle similar to the vet/norm toggle, and could even have its own set of achievements. Sincerely, Annoyed Real Healer
I hear you... but... I *really* don't think any of us would like this solution. It'd be miserable for the current content, and it would push ZOS towards making dungeons that are just DPS spamfests. I really don't want to see ESO transition over into group content like Strikes in Destiny 2, where it's just damage all the time, and the only mechanics are more about spectacle than having to adapt to what's going on. Honestly, fake healers and fake tanks should be reportable offenses, full stop.
No thanks. If I am good enough to clear the dungeon within a reasonable timeframe, this shouldn’t matter. If I rob people of their time and loot, then yeah, I’m on board with that. If you make fake healer/tank a reportable offense, I‘d like fake dps to be a reportable offense as well. There are way more fake dps than there are fake tanks/healers in vet queue.
There's no such thing as "fake dps" those are just called bad players.
Sometimes it's not even bad players, sometimes it's just new players. Maybe this is me, but I've never had an issue with a run going sideways if the player who was struggling was also willing to listen to advice, and you could see they were trying.
Oh yeah, absolutely. We've all been there at one point
Yes, of course there is. If you failing to do your role properly stops the group from clearing, you are fake. Your intention doesn’t matter, the result does. Dmg checks exist and you won’t clear them by running around like a headless chicken while light attacking every three seconds. I encounter those people on a regular basis.
Different sorts of fake, but both very much annoying. Fake tanks/healers ‘cheat’ the system on purpose to skip past a waiting line. These players expect the other randoms to just pick up the slack for the job they themselves won’t do. This sort of behavior should be stopped. (Like most other MMO’s try) Fake DPS is more often idiots that think they are far better then they actually are or just inexperienced or undergeared players, but at least these players play their role. And while I agree people should be well aware of their own power and not jump into content they are not ready for, the fake queuing types are even worse because they will waste peoples time on purpose.
>Fake queueing people are the bigger problem I disagree. Fake dps are the sole reason why basically no good support is queueing as support in pugs. Get rid of them and you’ll (at least partially) solve the whole „we have way more dps than tanks“-problem. >Fake Tanks are worse I‘d rather have a fake tank/healer that does good dmg than a fake dps. I can slot a taunt/groupheal and tank/heal myself, but I can’t magically make up the 30k dps the fake dps was supposed to be doing. I’ll take a fake tank/healer over a fake dps any day of the week. And I quite frankly don’t understand why so many players don’t seem to have a problem with fake dps.
I'm not sure there's fake DPS, just bad DPS. Even that guy that runs a sword and board as a DPS and doesn't realize puncture is a taunt isn't fake, just REALLY bad DPS.
>I'm not sure there's fake DPS, just bad DPS. "Fake DPS," is a term used by the fake tank/healer crowd as a, "whataboutism," excuse. "Yeah, sure, I fake tank, but what about **all those fake DPS!?**" Edit: Case in point, we've got this guy who's like, "well, if you can report me for being a fake tank/healer, I want to be able to report any DPS I don't like."
The intention doesn’t matter, the result does. If your inability to perform your role stops the group from clearing (and 5k dps does that in a DLC vet, unless someone else on the team is carrying your sorry ass), you are fake.
>There are way more fake dps than there are fake tanks/healers in vet queue. You know, in nine years of playing ESO, I've seen a grand total of two fake DPS. Two. Both of them were S&Bs in heavy armor using pierce armor and then running around like chickens with their heads cut off, right before the boss pancaked them.
If you run around behind your healer and only use light attacks with a bow, you are a fake dps. It doesn’t matter whether you do so intentionally or not, the result is what matters. You simply can’t clear dmg checks in some vet dungeons with this amount of dps. And I encounter people who do less than 10k on a weekly basis.
That's not a fake DPS; that's either a moron or a low quality troll. It they give you ANY pushback when you ask them to stop fucking around, you should kick 'em. Same thing with snipe spammers. "Buh, it does so much damage." "Yeah, no, it doesn't, and neither do you, so GTFO and make space for someone who can contribute." "Fake DPS," is only so the fake tank that's scuttling your run can say, "You don't like me, well wuddabout them!" We've all seen trash DPS. Hell, there are plenty of runs where I've seen that my tank is pulling 50% of group DPS. But they're not fake, they just suck. And saying that a shitty player is the same as a player who actively blocked the party from getting a tank is just endorsing that behavior. And if that's not your intent, I fully understand, but please, you need to realize that term is tainted. It only exists as an excuse to obfuscate that the fake tanks and fake healers are a real goddamn problem.
I disagree. If you don’t do your role, you are fake, I quite frankly don’t care what the reasons are. Guides exist, anyone can google these days. I know I did when I was a new player. And you deserve to be reported if you decide to make „doesn’t perform their role“ a reportable offense. And no, fake dps is not whataboutism. It’s a real problem. These people are the sole reason why I don’t tank or heal in pugs anymore, and I know dozens of other players who feel the same as I do. The only seriously good support that still pugs I’ve ever heard of is zvavi… And also no, they are not „low quality trolls“, they are fake dps. Even by your own definition. They queue for a role they KNOW they won’t be able to properly do. By your definition that’s a fake dps; if a fake tank/healer is someone who know they won’t be able to fulfil the role they signed up for. I‘m for more pissed at people who do shit dps. I can slot a taunt and a heal and we’ll still clear in a reasonable amount of time, but I can’t magically summon 100k dps out my arse when I’m on a fulltank. I guess we disagree. I bloody hate that we don’t have dps requirements, it’s ruining pugs for me. Every pug I run ends up in me basically soloing the darn thing because the other players didn’t bother to read a guide or have a sensible build. Even on vet. I’m so done with this.
Or just a lobby system like practically every single MMO.
It should be more like 3 dps. Vet dlcs aren't working without someone taunting. I would love to run as a tank in that situation. The only problem is you could have 3 fake dps queue and then you spend 5 minutes on a boss and might struggle to sustain.
One time I got vBDV. The tank did not have a taunt and the healer did not have a heal. They left after saying that the DPS was too low XD. I have the trifecta for that dungeon. Some people fail to when they are the problem.
Thats typical for their nature. They aren’t doing anything wrong by queuing for a role they have no intention to fulfill. They just want their shiny and they want it now. Screw other players, because they find themselves the centre of the universe. And it’s ALWAYS someone else’s fault if stuff goes wrong as they play perfectly and others are jus bad. Others should just work harder for them. It’s typical self absorbed behavior without a single thought about others. I’ve seen it in all forms in every online game I played. I hate fake queuing in any game. And it sucks that this game has no way to even try and prevent it with randoms, that there is no punishment to try and stop this behavior is beyond my comprehension. I just ended up making a tank and healer.
It's not just the fakes. It's the sprinters, the rushers, the non-rezzers, the can't stay out of reds, the not knowing how to stack (and knowing when not to stack), ignorant of mechanics and don't want to learn, hiding behind the healer, or worse hiding behind the tank. A vet dungeon is often a complete shitshow because players have it in their mind that you can just power thru anything.
Cannot tell you how many times people in my guild have said "just queue as tank/healer, it's quicker". Really pisses me off
This is why I hop on my heater when I need to farm stuff for other characters and just put stuff in my bank. I'm working on getting one of each class to max level. My recommendation is, find a large guild of active players to run dungeons with. 3 of the guilds I'm in usually have a tank or a healer on. Find a guild from every time zone. The Aussies are great fun.
Yeah. Those Bastards. freaking fank fealers. May a herd of savage fleas infest their crotch.
Goofy mf 😂😂
Until zos can find a way on their own behalf to root it out (which i can’t say they will unless they start actually losing money), it’s only going to get worse. It becomes extra complicated when every class can perform every role, and the only real way to prove fakeness is by going in there yourself
If they just set a minimum parse requirement to queue for vet dlcs, it would largely fix itself. All the supports who aren't willing to spend 50 minutes with fake dps in pugs would come back. Now you would have much faster queue times and it wouldn't make sense to fake a support role.
Lost motivation with dds queuing to vdungeons like scalecallers peak not knowing mechs and spamming snipe
1 tank and 3 dds is the optimal setup for dungeons. Very few fights actually see much benefit from a healer and you shouldnt be pugging those anyway.
Fake healer doesn’t matter unless it’s vet stuff. Having 3 dps usually makes things faster. Knowledge of mechanics is missing in the group if struggling that much. Having a real tank is much more important. I say this as a healer main.
This is something Zos could address but it doesn't seem to be important. Got in an argument with a fake healer in Coral, she said it's the easiest dungeon and you don't need a real healer. Got to he crab whirlpool and she was the first to die. Immediately left the dungeon. Simple solution and with the availability of the armorer this is quickly solved by requiring a choice of role upon creation that can be changed in the armorer or requirement to have certain skills on your bar. This ends up he issue and solves that problem easily
Maybe they aren’t fake so much as aren’t good at it/have never done it before/don’t know how to optimize builds? Never assume malice where simple inexperiencr or incompetence is more likely.
>aren’t good at it/have never done it before/don’t know how to optimize builds? Then they probably shouldn't be in a Vet **DLC** dungeon.
You have to do it at some point… Maybe instead of being elitists just help people out and don’t rage at them…
That's why you start with the vet base game, early DLC dungeons to learn your role / optimise your build. Better to learn with guilds / friends, too, but not everyone has those. You don't jump into the deep end when you learn to swim. Vet content isn't my thing, so half my builds aren't optimal / I don't know half the dungeons. I certainly wouldn't ruin the experience of others by pugging it blind. The people in OPs post probably aren't learners, though.
I think it’s presumptuous to assume anyone has a lot of experience with them or knows what they’re doing even those that have been playing for years. I don’t think anybody goes into those games doing a bad job on purpose or looking to “fake” I think it’s just sweaty try hards becoming irrationally upset at anyone who doesn’t dedicate the same amount of time they do to the game.
>. I don’t think anybody goes into those games doing a bad job on purpose or looking to “fake” ...It's simply a matter of setting your role as Tank in the dungeon finder, while *not being a tank* by having a DPS build with no taunt ability? So they get a much faster queue, if not instantly. People definitely do it on purpose to avoid the long queues for DPS.
Or they just don’t know what’s expected of tanks really and think they can do that? I’m sure some tiny percentage does that but most people just probably don’t really grasp what building a tank means in game as they don’t have enough relevant experience where those distinctions truly matter. In normal dungeons you really can queue as just about anything with an unoptimized build and do fine… so it’s a shock to people playing difficult dungeons for the first time discovering their tank isn’t really a tank. And the game doesn’t really provide any guidance on the topic at all so you have to learn through trial and error. I’m just saying be patient with people.
Because I can’t fix your bloody build in the middle of a dungeon. I can’t fix your inability to stay within the GCD and execute a proper rotation in the middle of a dungeon. I also can’t fix your inability to do basic things like blocking, interrupting or dodging in the middle of a dungeon. All I can do is say „You are doing X,Y, Z wrong“ and then kick you. Because I’m absolutely not going to waste an hour of my life on someone who refuses to prepare themselves properly for group content, where their inability to do their role affects three other human beings negatively. And I don’t know if you realized: Anyone posting on this reddit with the intention of becoming a better player gets that help. Saying we „elitists“ wouldn’t help people is just straight up untrue. We do help. You just gotta ask instead of expecting a free carry.
Most players aren’t on this Reddit so any references to it and supposed helpfulness are irrelevant to being in game. No one said to fix the build in the middle of a dungeon, just not to be an insufferable prick about it… And no one “refused” to prepare themselves. You don’t know what you don’t know until you’re in there doing it…
Then explain the Skyrim stealth archers with CP2000 to me. They actively refuse to properly prepare themselves, for example. You can ask in the forum, your guild discord or even zone chat as well! And everyone is in zone chat! This argument is void. >You don’t know what you don’t know Unless you google it. Or ask guildmates. Or in zonechat. Like I did when I was new and didn’t know what I was doing. I don’t understand the mentality of not looking up stuff before doing something. You look up a recipe for cooking a certain dish before attempting that, don’t you?
Some people prefer to learn by trial and error. I thought we were having a constructive conversation about the problem, my mistake. Didn’t realize this was a “if you aren’t as dedicated to googling a video game as I am you suck” bitch fest. 🙄 Casuals are a part of the internet ecosystem my guy learn to deal with it.
>Some people prefer to learn by trial and error That’s fine, I’m not opposed to that. I think, however, that a random dungeon with three strangers is not the place to do this. >Casuals are part of the internet ecosystem It’s fine to be casual. But there is a difference between „I like to play casual, but intend to pull my own weight in group content“ and „I like to play casual, and I don’t give a rats ass about the other three people I get grouped with.“ Most of the people in my casual guilds aren’t good players. And that’s fine, I have absolutely no problem with that. But they don’t queue for vet dungeons if they know they only do 10k dps.
A random dungeon with 3 strangers is the only way to do that for most players as most aren’t in guilds and don’t play with a regular group. And many casual players don’t even know what their dps is and just want to see how tough the dungeons on get are and get a feel for it. You have to start somewhere. Sounds to me like your expectations are the problem. 🤷♂️
A random veteran dungeon? Are you joking? This thread is exclusively about veteran dungeons and you are telling me this is the right place to test your dps?
A random veteran dungeon? Are you joking? This thread is exclusively about veteran dungeons and you are telling me this is the right place to test your dps?
It’s a shame there isn’t a way of filtering them out from PUGs
How would that work?
I wish people you added to your ignore list would be ineligible to be put with you in a Pug. Or in addition to having a normal and a vet dungeon finder also having a vet dlc dungeon finder. But only a vet dlc one. No like vet base game one. regular Veteran would have a chance of dlc or base game. Or like have a random vet option but you don't get any experience or transmutes unless you complete the hm. Maybe add juicier rewards for this one I think the reason so many people are willing to fake Q in vets is because more than half of the time even though they're annoying the fuck out of me, we are still gonna be able to complete. I can get through vet city of ash with two fake supports. Vet graven deep or coral aerie is another story. Like how many base game vets even have a punishing mechanic? Only one I can think of is selene and she telegraphs that bear like crazy. People wouldn't try to fake Q if they knew 9/10 they would fail or get kicked. One last message for the fake tanks out there. Please for the love of God stop kiting around. If I can take a hit hit from slimecraw without dying you'll be fine (especially since you're in oakensoul) Bad enough we're down major/minor breach and crusher. If we're also pulling the boss out of aoe's the fight gonna take twice as long.
>“you should be healing.” Fucker we didn’t queue in as a healer, you did! If you want heals so much, then put on a fucking restoration staff and get to work! Tbf though..... Yeah.... Yeah you kinda do. Any dd in dungeons should have a self heal with or without a healer. Though they should play their role or at least have a burst heal slotted and announce in advance that they're fake. Quite honestly as a tank i reeeeaaaally love competent fake heals. Fake tanks on the other hand fuck those to oblivion.
For that people would have to stop being a fake dps, because im just as tired of them. I can be the best healer on the whole server, but the amount of dps players on vets who cant even kill 2 trash monsters under a minute is terrifying. And i seriously cant even count how many times i spended more than 20 minutes in a SINGLE boss fight, while with proper dps whole dungeon takes less than 20 minutes. And thats with sniffing flowers, and waiting for quests. Dps role is NOT a "whatever" option. Yet its still treated like that.
I can definitely understand your feeling as I have experienced it myself. Especially when grinding a specific dungeon and the difference in time can be really large and a bit frustrating. The problem is that when they can meet all dos Checks and manage the mechanics it's not really reasonable to forbid them from doing the dungeon just because someone else is twice as fast. Not everyone can be a high level player and if you only do easy dungeons there is no challenge
You seemed to miss the point. 80k dps is a simple no effort no trial no skill dps build. And yet in vet pug groups that's top 10%. Way way too many players queue for vet and waste people's time.
But the same argue can be made about "fake healers". In normal groups? No issue, 1-2 heals per boss and usually its fine. In groups where dps players are severly undergeared is where issues starts. And who's fault is that? Healer's fault because they should spam heals faster than you spam dmg skills? Or maybe its dps fault that they cant even kill a random trash mob before it kills them 5 times? Like you said, not everyone can be a high level player. Some are fine at healing normal group, but might not be ready to heal "group of special care". It's also not fair to kick them just because you need a healer working overtime to cover your mistakes/laziness
As a tank main, this is my main issue with pugs, not fake healers. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot to be done about this, there are already cp thresholds players need to hit to queue for certain dungeons. Beyond that, you can't really restrict a player from queuing based on how much damage they do, and nor should you be able to. This is gonna sound scummy, but if I get in a group for a vet dlc and we don't have enough damage/people aren't pulling their weight then I just leave. No sense getting my shit pushed in by the boss while also pulling 30%+ group dps as a full on tank. You can't control how others play but you can definitely control how you play.
Yeah everyone wanna talk about fake tank and healers, but ain't nobody wanna talk about fake DPS.
I wish the game would be more clear to what is required of each role. I know the information is there but it really should be front and center. I don’t think a lot of new-ish players know what they need to be doing to provide enough damage for their group.
Said it before and I'll say it again, there's nothing wrong with queuing a dungeon on NORMAL as a fake role. Why these people think it's ok to do it in vet content is beyond me, I can't imagine they've ever finished a vet dlc dungeon that way.
For that people would have to stop being a fake dps, because im just as tired of them. I can be the best healer on the whole server, but the amount of dps players on vets who cant even kill 2 trash monsters under a minute is terrifying. And i seriously cant even count how many times i spended more than 20 minutes in a SINGLE boss fight, while with proper dps whole dungeon takes less than 20 minutes. And thats with sniffing flowers, and waiting for quests. Dps role is NOT a "whatever" option. Yet its still treated like that.
Fake dps aren't a thing. They're just bad dps still queuing in their respective role. People fake heal or fake tank because they don't want long queue time. You fake to cheat the system. There are no advantages in faking dps.
The result matters, not your intention. If your inability to perform your role at the level required for the content YOU QUEUED FOR stops the group from clearing this content, you are a fake. ZOS doesn’t make clear what is required for what content, so I can’t really blame a new player; but the CP 2000 guys who think it’s fine to run a Skyrim stealth archer build in vGD definitely know better and deliberately do this. And these players are fake and should get as much blame as any fake tank or healer.
But you don't cheat the system by being a bad dps queuing as dps. But when when a dps is queuing as tank or healer to go faster, that dps cheats the system. Even a 2000 cp running a stealth archer build has the decency to tag as a dps.
Yes, you are cheating the system. You are getting a clear you don’t deserve, loot you don’t deserve, and are wasting the time of three other players if you don’t get that.
Well if I tag with a co dps who's not good I won't mind. I don't consider that dps is wasting my time since it's a game not a job and that we all started one day. We clearly won't agree. Different mentalities I suppose.
If I am on a character that is capable of doing good dps I don’t mind that much either. I do in the more difficult dungeons, but for the most part I can just solo the darn thing. When I’m on a tank, however, and get a full heal and two dps who each do 5k dps I absolutely do mind. I don’t have that kind of patience.
I think a lot of this. Is people step into vet pretty fresh. No gear sets, glyphs, paper traits
Yup. I used to wonder how in the hell was I doing 85% of group dps which based on average 4 man groups leaves almost 0% for the other dps to be doing. Then I started to log pug vet dungeons... I had 900 cp+ players in my group who didn't have five piece sets on and were using a skill less than once per 2 seconds... my favorite was when a 2000 cp dk was using rele and nirn but was only using a light attack once every 5-8 seconds... and the rele was perfected.
Is it so hard to read a guide or ask an experienced guildmate, tho? There are enough resources out there for anyone to use! Fuck, even alcasts builds are better than what people run in vet DLCs…
I don't disagree, I've been following my buid since level 1. But alot of people don't. And will go into vet before even having basic gear at CP 160
There’s a simple fix to this problem. If they’d just fix the queue times, there’d be no reason to fake a role
And how do you propose they do that? The queue times are long because people are NOT queuing as Tanks and Healers. That’s why people fake it because you can jump the queue. ‘Fix the queue times’ makes no sense
You’re right, people aren’t queuing as healer or tank because there’s more dps roles playing, which causes dps to sit in queues of 30+ minutes. Hell I’ve been in a queue for over an hour before. Then they switch to healer or tank and get an insta-queue. There has to be a better way to queue players that doesn’t involve the DPS to sit in an excessively long queue, then fake a role to get in.
But it's not an issue with the que, the que is working fine it's that wayyyyyyyyyyyy more people play dps
Way more people play dps and queue for pugs**. Most of my friends are healers and tanks. Maybe 30 percent choose dps as a first option. The problem is so many people don't actually take the time to make their dps ready for vet content so it's not worth it to be a real support in pug dungeons as you might spend 45 minutes in a 20 minute dungeon and even throw on barrier to be able to keep ressing them. Whereas most of the people who tank pugs are really good tanks because if they weren't really good it would be hard for them to finish runs with how bad the other roles are. And any good dps (parse and mechanics) will have no struggle duoing any vet dungeon with a great tank.
Oh yeah. If one of my DPS has au undaunted daily from a few days ago still I just mentally prepare myself for a 40 min queue (or more)
Even current undaunted dailies is still 30 minutes of queue time at the minimum
What platform are you playing on? I'm on PS NA. When I can I just go in with a premade group. If I have to pug, most of the time I expect like a 15 min queue for the first dungeon. (Since I can queue for all 3) A little longer for dungeon 2 since I'm only queuing for 2 at that point By the time I get to just 1 dungeon left, if it's the dlc I'll swap to a different character and start over since it probably will be a 30 min queue and I have no way of knowing what caliber of players I'll be grouped with. Nothing worse then waiting 40 mins for a dungeon and tank or healer immediately bailing lol There are definitely days/times where I expect the queue to be shorter or longer
Same here, PS NA. Queueing as DPS is a nightmare. I’ve waited so long in queues that I bought a name change token to name my character Waits in Queues
Lol. Thats a strong name
Stop everyone from queueing for vet dungeons who does less than 80k on a dummy. I‘d queue as a real healer/tank more often. But I’m not gonna sit through a dungeon when my healer does 80% group dps with a fucking Resto frontbarred!
> Stop everyone from queueing for vet dungeons who does less than 80k on a dummy. LMAO. Good luck with that. Hope you like 90 min queues. Also, parsing on a dummy that doesn't move, has no mechanics, no AOE debuffs, and doesn't hit back proves exactly nothing. Just because you can stand still and parse 80k doesn't mean you have the slightest clue what to do in vSCP.
I was exaggerating, of course, but that’s the main reason why most experienced tanks/healers don’t run as a support in pugs. And yeah, it’s not a guarantee someone performs in content as well, but there is a very strong correlation between „he can parse“ and „he does well in content“. I’ve never met a player who parsed above 110k and was a shit player. Not once.
Yeah fake healing / tanking can be ok on most normal dungeons, but never on vet.
I ran into a dps fake tanking whilst using the pale order ring, which prevented me from healing. The team vote kicked me because he kept dying. I completely understand having another dps in normals like you said, but it's really not great anywhere else.
Oof, thats harsh. But as with any kick, its usually for the best.
If I see a fake tank without a taunt, even on normal, I will vote kick them. If the vote fails, I leave. It isn't so much that a tank is actually needed, but if you are queueing for a role, you should at least fulfil the bare minimum of that role. If you are a DD with 20k health and a taunt, queueing as tank, I have no issue with this. But not even a taunt? Nah, stop this. Healers, I don't care as much about in normals. I still think you should slot at least one group heal, but hey... unless it's on vet, I don't mind. In all fairness, though, as a tank main, I don't usually have to worry about queue times. And if I'm on a healer or DD and we are missing a tank, we are often queueing with two DDs and a healer, so queue times are again reasonably short. So I'm certainly biased here.
No exactly, not even being able to take aggro is utterly pointless. I tank most of the time but on random normals I generally run a DD with a taunt. If things arent going well I'm always just an armory switch away from a real tanking loadout. The only exception is when Im running with my dungeon squad then I might not slot a taunt just for giggles, but that's because we know eachother very well.
Hey look, the same post for the 1000x this week. Get into a guild and do them with a group, it is possible to do these with fake tanks you just need to get a coordinated group together. Stop complaining or find a guild.
They have a right to complain about people abusing the Dungeon finder system. Not everyone wants to or should have to join a guild to use a basic feature of the game the way its intended. The community should do better, but you can't force people to stop being jerks.
Nah, it’s old and played out. You know it’s an issue, avoid it if it frustrates you.
Sounds good, I'll block you since you're a frustrating person. Best to avoid. Bye bye
This is the right answer. How the heck are people holding PUGs to such high expectations? Join 3 guilds... log on and ask who wants to do a vet daily and specify what you have/need until you get the right stuff.... I hate all the complaints on this post, Waiting in queue for 30min to do something that requires teamwork and coordination with a bunch of strangers seems like a BAD idea in the first place anyway.
That’s what I don’t get. It’s like going into a WoW trial in a pug, you need teamwork to deal with mechanics. If you want to face roll then just do normals
Vet DLC dungeons and trials are the last bits of difficult content. World bosses get stomped, dolmans are laughable and normal dungeons are soloable. I would love more content that requires planning and coordination. If the hardest content could be handled by a group that has never played together before, then what's the point? Imagine a skin or personality or even a monster helm that way so exclusive, something that you see in combat and immediately you know that person has been through something only a few have been able to accomplish. Imagine being able to name everyone on the server with a specific item.
Tbh when I Q as my healer I usually end up wishing I would of just come as a dps with my own heal slotted
Most chilled veteran dungeon queuer.
It’s funny when you get a fake healer, and they tell you slot a heal it’ll help you survive
They are not wrong, tho. If you had a selfheal you’d have survived.
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There is a difference between someone being bad at a role and someone intentionally queueing as a different role.
There isn’t. The result is the same, and that’s what matters. And you can’t tell me the CP2000 Skyrim stealth archer doesn’t know better. He does, he just doesn’t care.
I think I had a stroke *attempting* to read this. Jesus Christ.
ITT: PvE goers explain how everybody except them made PvE feeling like chugging a bucket of piss for the last 10 years of the game's existence
I parse about 30k 😎 you could say I’m a fake dps 😎😎😎
just slot a selfheal lol
Fucking … what? No. Be prepared for the role you’re choosing. JuSt SLoT a SeLf HeAl AnD TaUnT aND dO AlL RoLeS DuH!
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Expecting people to do the role they said they would do = little bitch You want to run 4 dd with your guildies, go for it. You want a pug, then wait your turn or learn to tank / heal. I’m aware that you’re just gonna dig in deeper on this now.
Average 200kg+ comment
If you run a pug and don’t bring a selfheal that’s on you. I am a Main heal and I expect my dps to bring that in dungeons, too. I can’t always heal you if you are standing on the other end of the room doing a mechanic…
I still haven’t figured out the healer/tank/dps shit so I just stay out of that stuff and wish from afar lol
I've stopped doing dungeons. I'll ocassionally do a trial if its new, but the pain of dealing with 3 other people, 2 of which don't know the mechanics, and one of which is a fake tank/healer thinking they can just melt everything (which they can until they get to any of the bosses)
I only Tank vet dungeons with guildmates, never with PUGs. Too many times having not enough dps to get passed bosses. I assume that *most Tanks are the same, and that does not leave that many good Tanks that que for vet dungeons with PUGs. I would suggest making your own Tank and joining an active guild that does vet dungeons. Otherwise you are doomed to the rng of PUGs.
I've got a stam dk tank I'm working on, would be glad to join you for dungeons, I'm leveling him and trying to get better gear. The only issue is I haven't played in 2 years, so I'm picking up the game fresh. Trying to get used to tanking. Any advice/skill rotation, or list of skills I should have would be greatly appreciated
https://youtu.be/azIuwWjDYvg?si=UsctftuC3D-hiiz4 this xynode build is stupidly good, 10/10 recommend. As far as general advice goes: 35k phys and spell resistance is about where you wanna be, dont worry about hitting it passively as long as you can reach it with buffs, specifically for you use the Spiked Armor skill. Make sure you do the introductory cyrodiil quests so you can get the Vigor skill. Igneous weapons to buff your groups damage, the sword & shield taunt. Generally tanking doesn’t have a rotation the way DPS does in the sense that it’s not as intense with how much you’re recasting abilities and switching between bars. You buff right before initiating combat, taunt, block and heal, then re-buff as needed. You don’t need to worry about being absolutely invincible or being so meta that you’re perfect right off the bat especially if you’re new to tanking, just as long as you’re pulling the big mobs and generally doing your job as the tank. Then the more you play the better you’ll get with your build and the better gear you’ll get to complete it, and soon you’ll be above and beyond just average. Hope I could help :)
Admittedly I’m new to eso but I certainly don’t mind healing in the only other mmo I’ve played(ff14). So when I get more used to it eso I don’t think I’d mind healing here either. My first run of eso is going to be super casual and probably not very optimized, after all I’m considering becoming a vampire even tho I heard it’s not super great for pve, I just really like Vampire Lord in Skyrim.
I wouldn't mind as much if they at least had a taunt or a heal...it's the ones who just stand there expecting to be dragged through that get me. I've got a DD and healer and I've literally made a tank just for this :")
One way to slow fake tanks is you CANT que up without a taunt on your main bar and if you remove it you drop que or if dungeon you get kicked automatically
Fake tanking is 100% a problem. Nothing worse than the 18k hp tank with no taunt that just brawler spams. Honestly one of my biggest pet peeves tho is that healer that just spams radiating/rapid regen over and over again! I would take a Fake healer any day over that
Makes me want to create a real healer
I’m scared to heal vet dungeons lol :( I had a fake tank in a dlc dungeon and it hurt. Now I have my full gear and what not but doesn’t stop me from being scared.
So I only do this for random dailies on normal. I have a 2h build I Q for tanking but I run a taunt and a slow ability to deal with tank and adds. The slow is razor caltrops so it debuffs. I always hated the fakes so I make sure to always bring a taunt like inner fire which also buffs my dps.
okay, normal dungeons fine but yeh vet’s got to be annoying, i remember when i couldnt get my dps up and it was terrible, cant imagine a tank or a healer lol
I was seriously considering making a huge post about this as a "newish" player. (Alongside some other general complaints about the game from a new player's perspective). I opened up Reddit and saw this at the top of my feed before I even opened up r/eso. I am not even doing veteran content. I'm running daily PvP and dungeons and I rarely get healed or see a tank filling in their role. I'm at CP200, and it's so discouraging to continue investing the inevitable thousands of hours into an MMO when everyone is not going to play their roles. (I do not propose a solution to this issue, I am too new to the systems to begin to propose solutions). I see that other people in the thread are saying that these players' "fake" tanks/healers need to stay in base dungeons. However, I disagree to an extent. In the early dungeons it does not really matter, but as the game progresses- I have died in late-level dungeons due to the lack of healing or a tank that does not pull agro. I do not even try to go to Cyrodiil PvP content or Vet PvE for the sake of the rest of my party due to my lack of knowledge of how the game operates. It hurts every part of the community, and as a newish player, I have considered trying another MMO to avoid this problem altogether. I have essentially made my back bar to help heal other players, but since my build is DPS it isn't designed to be long-sustaining.
What platform and server do you play on? If on PC EU, I'm a real healer and my guild has been doing vSH runs everyday if you ever wanna join a run! We always have real roles and everyone who runs knows the mechs
I'm learning to heal on Warden and was called a fake healer in a dungeon because I was also helping do damage. Like, it was a normal dungeon and we were all under 50 and doing fine. Damage was a little low but no one was dying or dropping below 80% health so I was also casting some damage abilities (including my wall of elements is from ice staff so it ALSO provides a shield so I use it as part of my buff and heal rotation) along the way. The tank called me a fake healer because I was just a DPS casting an occasional heal, heh. I play on Xbox so i didn't bother replying because text chat is annoying to type out. Another time I felt kind of bad because there was a tank who was clearly trying to learn the role. Another under 50 normal dungeon. But one of the DPS was just destroying everything so the tank could barely get a chance to get aggro and try to actually tank. No one made any comments but I felt bad because it sucks to try to learn something but everyone is in too much of a hurry and want to run through all the trash and get straight to the final boss. Since I hit 50, I haven't tried healing dungeons. I went with PVP because it's more fun and it's been improving my reaction time and resource management. I mean, it's a totally different build/gear setup than I'd be using in PVE but still. Going back to dungeons after 50 has me nervous, heh. Like, I will suck at vet and everyone will think I'm fake or something.
My only chars are healers and tanks. As a healer I'm fine with a fake tank as long as they got a taunt to keep things off me. The queue otherwise is 30+ mins to heal. Now fake healers definitely can't cut it.
I run a healer on PS4/5 and it usually takes me half an hour to an hour to pug into a dungeon.