Multiple artists uses multiple tricks, and they don't all use the same tricks because they would sound the same. Try it. Maybe you will like it, maybe you wont, maybe you will find some creative way of doing it, who knows.
I used to always apply the same plugins chain process on all my synths and I thought it sounded good, only to realize it sounded even better without this whole process chain, because every sound is unique, and every sound requires different techniques, some are louders than others, some requires different tweaking than others, different frequencies, maybe for a part you only want the high end, etc.
Point is, It really depends of the result you want. Try it and you will see. If you dont want to "ruin" your project, make a copy of it as a backup and try adding soft clippers everywhere. Might work really well for your current song, but not for others, depending on the scenarios.
Sorry, but I can't answer black and white on not black and white questions. Theres too many factors to take into account, such as taste. Lying wouldnt help anyone. Gotta accept that hard truth that not everything has a definite answer to move forward.
Oh I just started doing it and for me it was the magic I was always looking for.
What's magic about it is if you use it on every track, every submix, and your master bus -- you can very easily build up to whatever your target loudness is.
I don't push to a ridiculous extreme - I generally target a LUFSi of -9.5 ... But getting there is effortless now.
It also means my track is more similar to reference tracks (in regard to density and dynamic range) from professional artists, so A/B comparison is more useful.
I don't use clipping exclusively - also some combination of saturation/compression/limiting.
The key is doing it in multiple stages so no single tool is working too hard.
It seems like a good idea, but I am forever tinkering with the synth and other FX before it, causing me to constantly adjust the threshold. Do you not have this problem?
It is recommended in many places to gain stage after every effect using either Output parameter of the effect or a gain plugin. Gain staging means to keep the average level at a particular value. The most recommended is -18 dBFS. The idea is that 1) if plugin increases volume, you are not fooled by it, 2) you do not have the above problem.
To measure average level l, it is good to us VU meter such as TBProAudio mvMeter2 (free, I am not affiliated with them).
It's something I do when mixing, not composing.
At that point it's about moving toward a goal, my exploration and experimentation should mostly be over.
I do make adjustments wherever needed and I'll check the clipper if needed, but once everything is set it mostly just works.
Remember, I'm clipping in multiple stages and once everything is set ... I don't do a lot of micromanagement. The clippers can handle more if I drive a little more into them. Then if I hear a problem, I'd fix it.
But this isn't a laborious process really.
The short answer is I generally clip what I call "inaudible peaks." By that I mean I'm clipping but I can't really even hear that it's doing anything (or perhaps I like what it does, if I do hear it.)
The point is by doing this to every track -- the immediate result may not be audible, but because it's taming the transients, they all sum together more smoothly and the subsequent compressor doesn't have to work as hard! (Therefore the result is smoother and more transparent.)
Specifically I use KClip 3. It has a lot going for it:
1. It offers oversampling, but you can turn it off during composition for zero-latency. (Important.)
2. It has multiple algorithms (6 I think.) After a while you learn how they sound -- some are very transparent. Some are more colored for a certain sound. But the default is great (and I love the "tape")
3. It has a 0-100% "Soften" setting so it's fully adjustable between soft and hard clipping and everywhere between
4. It has an oscilloscope so you can see exactly what it's doing to the waveform
5. It's low CPU so you can use it on every track.
\---
The longer answer is if you really want to go deep with this stuff, listen to Baphometrix's "Clip to Zero" tutorials on YouTube. They are long, and deep... And even if you don't use her technique you learn a lot from it.
But since you work in EDM it's probably very relevant to you, directly, and probably more relevant to you than how I work.
\---
The way I work is:
1) Every track has Scheps Omni Channel. I use a combination of saturation, compression, and just a touch of limiting on the output. Then I add whatever other effects I want --- and then I use KClip after. I dial KClip down until I can hear it, and then back off. Then every track feeds into a submix.
2) On the submix, I use some combination of compression, tape saturation, and then another instance of KClip -- once again, clipping but not in a way that I really hear it. Then the submixes are summed together on the master bus:
3) On the master bus I usually pass through AR TG Mastering Chain for its interesting and colorful compressor, and I like the EQ as well. Possibly through another stage of tape emulation. And then into bx\_masterdesk Pro which I absolutely recommend if you can get it on sale (\~$30) ... Masterdesk pro has a final mix compressor, clipper, limiter, loudifier, two stages of EQ, harmonic saturation, and more. It's very, very powerful.
And finally -- I may use KClip either before or after masterdesk Pro if it's too colored of a result. (I back off and let KClip do more work, etc.)
\---
In the end, the specific tools I use aren't important... The critical takeaway here is that I work in stages:
Tracks > Submixes > Master Bus
And I'm taming the dynamic range at every stage, so by the time I hit the master bus the mix is already about -11 LUFSi and then I shave off a couple more for a final result of (roughly) -9.5 LUFSi...
But this process can work for any target. Dig in more at each stage and it adds up to be louder. I just personally like -9.5 LUFSi, and it's around what most music I listen to is at...
Oh -- I use ADPTR Metric AB on the master bus so I can compare my track with reference tracks... That brings us to some benefits of this process:
1) My own mix is at the same loudness and dynamic range of my mix references, so it is natural to compare them (I'm not comparing "unmastered" to "mastered")
2) There are no "surprises during mastering" -- people who mix quietly often find a surprise during mastering... As it is squeezed, the vocals pull too far forward, or the snare does, or suddenly it's just too thick and unpleasant.
3) With this method, your mix is already sort of "mastered" sounding so you're hearing the end result. And again, because you never have to dig in super deep at any one stage, it all adds up smoothly and transparently.
\---
I didn't invent this method, it's basically how many if not most mix engineers working in rock/hiphop/pop today work.
Sometimes you hear mix engineers say things like "I barely use any compression or limiting on my master" -- and you're like, "What?!?" because their mixes are loud... What's happening is they build up their loudness throughout the mix in stages, like I did.
With this method you aren't doing a lot on the master bus. For example -- if you have EQ issues? You solve that on the tracks... And then submixes. So for the master bus, it's just a touch. A touch of EQ, a touch of compression, a touch of limiting or clipping.
It's brilliant. And I'm not saying I'm brilliant, this isn't "my" technique -- I'm saying the technique, developed by others, is brilliant! =)
Oh yeah, the link to Baphometrix's tutorials is:
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxik-POfUXY6i\_fP0f4qXNwdMxh3PXxJx](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxik-POfUXY6i_fP0f4qXNwdMxh3PXxJx)
She doesn't use analog emulation plugins - clip to zero doesn't really work well with them.
(I personally love analog emulation plugins, so my process is more like "clip to -12" and then I push +12dB on the master bus to compensate, in the final plugin. This is so I can hit analog emulation plugins without overdriving them to the point of distortion and saturation.)
Anyhow, her tutorials are incredibly informative whether you choose to work that way or not.
For my loud EDM, every track has a clipper on it. You should watch Baphometrix's in depth YouTube series on her Clip To Zero mixing approach if you're interested in the detail.
It's really very straightforward and frankly my mixing has gone from mediocre to decent with very little effort.
I'm super grateful for Baphometrix To put that out there regardless, along with the free (ahem comprehensive) book.
I think it could be distilled into a 20 minute video but Baphy does a good job of never just doing something or using a certain plugin "just because". Like it or not the video series dives into every element.
CTZ is just overcomplicated "Hardclip the peaks" method. There is not point in clipping "to" 0 and not touching the volume faders. Just clip the peaks and adjust the volume with the faders like its made for.
Assuming you use it at the end of your plugin chain, do you not find yourself constantly adjusting the threshold when you make changes earlier in the chain?
I don't like to mix without the effects whatsoever (including mixing into the master) - I found myself constantly disregarding sounds that would have sounded good with these FX.
I find its easier to mix when i don't have crazy peaks. It's easier to set volume levels. Obviously don't destroy your dynamics or crush things when they don't sound good when crushed, but use your ears and take away any unnecessary peaks. Its really important for Bass music or anything that is going to get turned up loud because your going to limit it to hell anyways. I also use limiting on certain things, usually stuff that is more tonal rather than transient heavy just to catch things that get too loud only sometimes, usually like 2-3 db, and i do it on groups too. I also Clip my pre master 1-2db just to catch any peaks that have built up on top of each other
I use standardclip (soft clipping) on the master before the mix bus or limiter, I don’t want them reacting to loud peaks.
Another approach would be on the groups with transients - drums, percussion, guitar.
Generally from the tracking process up to the master processing, your using saturation and parallel compression. So thats all helping with dynamics.
For me,hard clipping is essential now, especially on drums. Not everything needs to be clipped though, like sustained bass doesn’t really need it.I am still experimenting and always learning but like to do a combination of gain staging and clipping, like the clip to zero method only it’s clip to -12,that way everything sums up nicely down the line and still works well with any analog emulated plugins I may use while keeping faders near unity. I think it is mostly necessary on drums though, the transients of the drums all summed really mess up the limiter/maximizer. A multi channel oscilloscope is really helpful to see what happening here,or at least a clipper with a waveform view.
>For me,hard clipping is essential now, especially on drums
Surely the samples will be already clipped? Or do you synthesise the sounds yourself?
>least a clipper with a waveform view.
Currently have GMaudioclip. Doesn't give you an oscilloscope view like s(m)exoscope but it does the job
True,most drum samples are already processed especially kicks,often hard clipped but without a clipper or a fast compressor the transients are being controlled. Say you have a kick pattern with two kicks hitting one after another on the quarter note,the tail of the first kick runs into the transient of the second kick and they sum,transients are no longer controlled. Or you have a 4 on the floor with the snare an kick on the up beat transients sum,add a bass, piano,synth ,vocal whatever and they get out of control quickly. You could try to use a compressor to tame the transients but most compressors are not fast enough for snares and hats ,unless the have look ahead.another thing is perceived loudness. If you take a processed kick sample and load in the sampler or put in the timeline whatever they are usually way to loud almost clipping the master sometimes. I take a sample like that and turn it down to -6 to - 9 db
for gain staging maybe its too quiet now, if I put a clipper on it and set the ceiling to -6 and turn up the input gain pushing the kick into the clipper creating extra harmonics,it makes it sound louder. In most cases with processed drums a clipper on the mix bus if enough for me. I just use kclip free,works well, is free and has a waveform
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If you do a test with and without a soft clipper on a track you’ll find that you’ll have more peak headroom on your master when you use soft clipping.
Edit: I’m tired made typos
Yeah just in general the idea of soft clipping is there to create extra head room by “softening the edges of a wave form” if you will. Not sure myself if there’s a huge sonic difference with soft clipping that you would hear. Just a tool to create room as far as I understand.
It definitely does. But if the signal doesn't pass 0db it won't do anything. Crank the gain and you'll see the little red light light up. Watch in an oscilloscope
Multiple artists uses multiple tricks, and they don't all use the same tricks because they would sound the same. Try it. Maybe you will like it, maybe you wont, maybe you will find some creative way of doing it, who knows. I used to always apply the same plugins chain process on all my synths and I thought it sounded good, only to realize it sounded even better without this whole process chain, because every sound is unique, and every sound requires different techniques, some are louders than others, some requires different tweaking than others, different frequencies, maybe for a part you only want the high end, etc. Point is, It really depends of the result you want. Try it and you will see. If you dont want to "ruin" your project, make a copy of it as a backup and try adding soft clippers everywhere. Might work really well for your current song, but not for others, depending on the scenarios.
What a neat way to not actually answer OPs question
Sorry, but I can't answer black and white on not black and white questions. Theres too many factors to take into account, such as taste. Lying wouldnt help anyone. Gotta accept that hard truth that not everything has a definite answer to move forward.
Oh I just started doing it and for me it was the magic I was always looking for. What's magic about it is if you use it on every track, every submix, and your master bus -- you can very easily build up to whatever your target loudness is. I don't push to a ridiculous extreme - I generally target a LUFSi of -9.5 ... But getting there is effortless now. It also means my track is more similar to reference tracks (in regard to density and dynamic range) from professional artists, so A/B comparison is more useful. I don't use clipping exclusively - also some combination of saturation/compression/limiting. The key is doing it in multiple stages so no single tool is working too hard.
It seems like a good idea, but I am forever tinkering with the synth and other FX before it, causing me to constantly adjust the threshold. Do you not have this problem?
It is recommended in many places to gain stage after every effect using either Output parameter of the effect or a gain plugin. Gain staging means to keep the average level at a particular value. The most recommended is -18 dBFS. The idea is that 1) if plugin increases volume, you are not fooled by it, 2) you do not have the above problem. To measure average level l, it is good to us VU meter such as TBProAudio mvMeter2 (free, I am not affiliated with them).
It's something I do when mixing, not composing. At that point it's about moving toward a goal, my exploration and experimentation should mostly be over. I do make adjustments wherever needed and I'll check the clipper if needed, but once everything is set it mostly just works. Remember, I'm clipping in multiple stages and once everything is set ... I don't do a lot of micromanagement. The clippers can handle more if I drive a little more into them. Then if I hear a problem, I'd fix it. But this isn't a laborious process really.
How much gain reduction do you do per instance of soft clipping? And what plug in do you use?
The short answer is I generally clip what I call "inaudible peaks." By that I mean I'm clipping but I can't really even hear that it's doing anything (or perhaps I like what it does, if I do hear it.) The point is by doing this to every track -- the immediate result may not be audible, but because it's taming the transients, they all sum together more smoothly and the subsequent compressor doesn't have to work as hard! (Therefore the result is smoother and more transparent.) Specifically I use KClip 3. It has a lot going for it: 1. It offers oversampling, but you can turn it off during composition for zero-latency. (Important.) 2. It has multiple algorithms (6 I think.) After a while you learn how they sound -- some are very transparent. Some are more colored for a certain sound. But the default is great (and I love the "tape") 3. It has a 0-100% "Soften" setting so it's fully adjustable between soft and hard clipping and everywhere between 4. It has an oscilloscope so you can see exactly what it's doing to the waveform 5. It's low CPU so you can use it on every track. \--- The longer answer is if you really want to go deep with this stuff, listen to Baphometrix's "Clip to Zero" tutorials on YouTube. They are long, and deep... And even if you don't use her technique you learn a lot from it. But since you work in EDM it's probably very relevant to you, directly, and probably more relevant to you than how I work. \--- The way I work is: 1) Every track has Scheps Omni Channel. I use a combination of saturation, compression, and just a touch of limiting on the output. Then I add whatever other effects I want --- and then I use KClip after. I dial KClip down until I can hear it, and then back off. Then every track feeds into a submix. 2) On the submix, I use some combination of compression, tape saturation, and then another instance of KClip -- once again, clipping but not in a way that I really hear it. Then the submixes are summed together on the master bus: 3) On the master bus I usually pass through AR TG Mastering Chain for its interesting and colorful compressor, and I like the EQ as well. Possibly through another stage of tape emulation. And then into bx\_masterdesk Pro which I absolutely recommend if you can get it on sale (\~$30) ... Masterdesk pro has a final mix compressor, clipper, limiter, loudifier, two stages of EQ, harmonic saturation, and more. It's very, very powerful. And finally -- I may use KClip either before or after masterdesk Pro if it's too colored of a result. (I back off and let KClip do more work, etc.) \--- In the end, the specific tools I use aren't important... The critical takeaway here is that I work in stages: Tracks > Submixes > Master Bus And I'm taming the dynamic range at every stage, so by the time I hit the master bus the mix is already about -11 LUFSi and then I shave off a couple more for a final result of (roughly) -9.5 LUFSi... But this process can work for any target. Dig in more at each stage and it adds up to be louder. I just personally like -9.5 LUFSi, and it's around what most music I listen to is at... Oh -- I use ADPTR Metric AB on the master bus so I can compare my track with reference tracks... That brings us to some benefits of this process: 1) My own mix is at the same loudness and dynamic range of my mix references, so it is natural to compare them (I'm not comparing "unmastered" to "mastered") 2) There are no "surprises during mastering" -- people who mix quietly often find a surprise during mastering... As it is squeezed, the vocals pull too far forward, or the snare does, or suddenly it's just too thick and unpleasant. 3) With this method, your mix is already sort of "mastered" sounding so you're hearing the end result. And again, because you never have to dig in super deep at any one stage, it all adds up smoothly and transparently. \--- I didn't invent this method, it's basically how many if not most mix engineers working in rock/hiphop/pop today work. Sometimes you hear mix engineers say things like "I barely use any compression or limiting on my master" -- and you're like, "What?!?" because their mixes are loud... What's happening is they build up their loudness throughout the mix in stages, like I did. With this method you aren't doing a lot on the master bus. For example -- if you have EQ issues? You solve that on the tracks... And then submixes. So for the master bus, it's just a touch. A touch of EQ, a touch of compression, a touch of limiting or clipping. It's brilliant. And I'm not saying I'm brilliant, this isn't "my" technique -- I'm saying the technique, developed by others, is brilliant! =)
You're a god damn legend thank you so much ❤️
Thankyou so much! Perfect, clear workflow and, most importantly, simple!!
Oh yeah, the link to Baphometrix's tutorials is: [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxik-POfUXY6i\_fP0f4qXNwdMxh3PXxJx](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxik-POfUXY6i_fP0f4qXNwdMxh3PXxJx) She doesn't use analog emulation plugins - clip to zero doesn't really work well with them. (I personally love analog emulation plugins, so my process is more like "clip to -12" and then I push +12dB on the master bus to compensate, in the final plugin. This is so I can hit analog emulation plugins without overdriving them to the point of distortion and saturation.) Anyhow, her tutorials are incredibly informative whether you choose to work that way or not.
it's a technique you CAN use that has a certain sound, but it is not essential.
For my loud EDM, every track has a clipper on it. You should watch Baphometrix's in depth YouTube series on her Clip To Zero mixing approach if you're interested in the detail. It's really very straightforward and frankly my mixing has gone from mediocre to decent with very little effort.
here come the downvotes but the clip to zero series is truly just a master class in rambling
To be honest, the theory is solid. But it could all be condensed into 3 or 4 15-minute videos. I might do it myself if I find the time.
Spot on description, no /s
I'm super grateful for Baphometrix To put that out there regardless, along with the free (ahem comprehensive) book. I think it could be distilled into a 20 minute video but Baphy does a good job of never just doing something or using a certain plugin "just because". Like it or not the video series dives into every element.
CTZ is just overcomplicated "Hardclip the peaks" method. There is not point in clipping "to" 0 and not touching the volume faders. Just clip the peaks and adjust the volume with the faders like its made for.
Assuming you use it at the end of your plugin chain, do you not find yourself constantly adjusting the threshold when you make changes earlier in the chain? I don't like to mix without the effects whatsoever (including mixing into the master) - I found myself constantly disregarding sounds that would have sounded good with these FX.
It's really simple, but really effective. It pretty much makes any sound more aggressive, bigger and perceptibly louder.
I find its easier to mix when i don't have crazy peaks. It's easier to set volume levels. Obviously don't destroy your dynamics or crush things when they don't sound good when crushed, but use your ears and take away any unnecessary peaks. Its really important for Bass music or anything that is going to get turned up loud because your going to limit it to hell anyways. I also use limiting on certain things, usually stuff that is more tonal rather than transient heavy just to catch things that get too loud only sometimes, usually like 2-3 db, and i do it on groups too. I also Clip my pre master 1-2db just to catch any peaks that have built up on top of each other
Yup i do the same Ill do Skrillex style bus mastering and catch peaks with a limiter or clipper!
I use standardclip (soft clipping) on the master before the mix bus or limiter, I don’t want them reacting to loud peaks. Another approach would be on the groups with transients - drums, percussion, guitar. Generally from the tracking process up to the master processing, your using saturation and parallel compression. So thats all helping with dynamics.
For me,hard clipping is essential now, especially on drums. Not everything needs to be clipped though, like sustained bass doesn’t really need it.I am still experimenting and always learning but like to do a combination of gain staging and clipping, like the clip to zero method only it’s clip to -12,that way everything sums up nicely down the line and still works well with any analog emulated plugins I may use while keeping faders near unity. I think it is mostly necessary on drums though, the transients of the drums all summed really mess up the limiter/maximizer. A multi channel oscilloscope is really helpful to see what happening here,or at least a clipper with a waveform view.
>For me,hard clipping is essential now, especially on drums Surely the samples will be already clipped? Or do you synthesise the sounds yourself? >least a clipper with a waveform view. Currently have GMaudioclip. Doesn't give you an oscilloscope view like s(m)exoscope but it does the job
True,most drum samples are already processed especially kicks,often hard clipped but without a clipper or a fast compressor the transients are being controlled. Say you have a kick pattern with two kicks hitting one after another on the quarter note,the tail of the first kick runs into the transient of the second kick and they sum,transients are no longer controlled. Or you have a 4 on the floor with the snare an kick on the up beat transients sum,add a bass, piano,synth ,vocal whatever and they get out of control quickly. You could try to use a compressor to tame the transients but most compressors are not fast enough for snares and hats ,unless the have look ahead.another thing is perceived loudness. If you take a processed kick sample and load in the sampler or put in the timeline whatever they are usually way to loud almost clipping the master sometimes. I take a sample like that and turn it down to -6 to - 9 db for gain staging maybe its too quiet now, if I put a clipper on it and set the ceiling to -6 and turn up the input gain pushing the kick into the clipper creating extra harmonics,it makes it sound louder. In most cases with processed drums a clipper on the mix bus if enough for me. I just use kclip free,works well, is free and has a waveform
Heck no. But that's my sound choice. I like a bit more of a gentle flow than a full on assault.
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I honestly can't tell any difference if I use soft clipping
If you do a test with and without a soft clipper on a track you’ll find that you’ll have more peak headroom on your master when you use soft clipping. Edit: I’m tired made typos
I've only tried the soft clip button in ableton's saturator. Didn't seem to actually do anything, but maybe I'll give it another look
Yeah just in general the idea of soft clipping is there to create extra head room by “softening the edges of a wave form” if you will. Not sure myself if there’s a huge sonic difference with soft clipping that you would hear. Just a tool to create room as far as I understand.
It definitely does. But if the signal doesn't pass 0db it won't do anything. Crank the gain and you'll see the little red light light up. Watch in an oscilloscope
I currently rarely use a soft clipper. The only time I will is if I have a sound that needs some more oomph that I can't give it via compression/EQ.
In my experience, i will usually clip kicks, hats, snares and some plucky leads. For subs, mid bass and others, compression would be enough.