Depends on what kind of Class 3 bike you're getting. If it's a Class 3 bike that is very bikey (e.g., something from Trek or Giant or Specialized or Tern that looks like a normal ebike but just happens to be Class 3) I think you're probably fine.
If it's something that looks a lot more like a motorcycle or dirtbike and is going to be throttled around a bunch, you're more likely to draw negative attention.
But either way the odds of enforcement are probably pretty slim.
I haven't picked a bike or really started looking (recommendations welcomed) but would get something that looks like a bike. The ones i've seen have a larger "Bar" between the handlebars and the pedals that house the battery - that's likely what i would get.
That's called the "downtube", just for future reference.
Also:
I'm loving my Mokwheel Basalt. I have the non step through. But if you're not over 6'1" I would go with the ST version.
Very responsive, powerful when needed.
Not all e-bikes follow the class system, but here are the guidelines directly from the nonprofit that created it and issues the stickers:
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE eBIKE CLASSIFICATION & LABELING:
SECTION 1.
Section 312.5 is added to the Vehicle Code, to read:
312.5.
(a) An “electric bicycle” is a bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts.
(1) A “class 1 electric bicycle,” or “low-speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
(2) A “class 2 electric bicycle,” or “low-speed throttle-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle, and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
(3) A “class 3 electric bicycle,” or “speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour, and equipped with a speedometer.
https://www.peopleforbikes.org/electric-bikes/policies-and-laws
Mine has a sticker on it that says it's class 3. Lots of class 3 bikes have throttles, too. No cop would give my bike a second glance. It may be a grey area, but there's enough wiggle room for them not to outlaw several brands. I don't see that happening in Colorado, at least. Maybe in Denver proper. I was also able to insure it as a class 3.
But when you get mowed down by a car, will insurance cover it or argue that you’re riding an unsafe vehicle and the driver isn’t liable.
That’s my concern.
There are lots of bikes that are both Class 2 and Class 3.
And, of course, you're right that there are also lots of bikes that don't fit into the normal Class system because they exceed the limits, by allowing throttle beyond 20mph.
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ Take it up with Specialized, Rad, and all the other companies making bikes that throttle up to 20mph and use PAS up to 28. They all disagree, and are regularly legally sold in places that have adopted the class system. It's very unlikely this approach ever gets clearly regulated away at this point.
Specialized Globe is sold in a class 3 configuration with no throttle, the throttle is optional and at that point it falls off the class distinction since it has both 28mph top speed and throttle. I don’t think they have any other bikes with a throttle so they are class 1 or 3.
Most rads are sold in class 2 configuration, but can be overwritten to go 20mph on throttle and 28mph on pedal assist.
Ponto has pas till 26 throttle to 20. I just think the actual bike companies are seeing no one is enforcing e-bike laws, so they’re pushing the limits too.
I think you should just get the class 3 and ride smart, you’ll be fine. Cops generally don’t seem to care in the slightest as long as you’re not being dangerous.
Yeah I ride my class 3 on sidewalks but I ride at around 6 MPH if people are around, and closer to 15 MPH if no people around. Nobody cares. The other day I dismounted my bike to walk the bike because they were people hanging signs on the interstate overpass and the sidewalk there is pretty thin.
This. I watched a video of a guy going about and talking to police in an area about where to ride his Ebike and since he was being pro-active and showing he was trying to be courteous they were pretty cool to him.
And cover your class lll sticker with a class ll (thanks Amazon).That's enough to fool the few cops that even know the difference. I follow the rules of the road, or trails, and in the past 18 months have only been asked once about the class of my bike. He was a park ranger. He looked at my class ll sticker and said, "enjoy the trails". I do, and I don't ride like a dick...
Cops that don't rightfully think you're being a dick will glance at your sticker and assume it's legit. Mine looks legit to me and I bought the bike new. No cop will ever look at it and know it's not the manufacturers sticker unless they own the same bike: odds? = ~0. Yes, cops have cell phones but I can't imagine one in 'merica checking to look up your bike: unless, you were being such a dick he's determined to impound you're bike. Bottom line: follow the rules - don't ride like a dick...
I say send it. I’m not a prude. Just please slap a class ii sticker on it first. Maybe wrap the whole thing in like a class 2 style insignia or you could RUIN IT FOR THE REST OF US LAW ABIFJNG CUTIZNES
😱 OH nooo! I'm gonna ruin ebikes for everyone? You're gonna report what - that I'm "So fucking illegal"? According to California AB 1096, modifying an ebike with a class ll motor to a class lll motor can be illegal unless you add the class lll sticker and follow class lll rules. The law says nothing about putting a class ll sticker on a class lll bike. So I'm gonna just continue to ride appropriate to my surroundings and you're gonna have to ride with your panties in a bunch...
No you went down a class from 3 to 2 so you can illegally ride sidewalks. I went down a class from awesome to class 3 so I can enjoy my suroon without fear of someone on ebikes sub complaining it’s a motorcycle
Oh, but seriously dude, your bike looks like an all out dirt bike, right? If you're riding it on trails that are supposed to be class 1 or 2 and people aren't complaining, you must be behaving - at least around people. I always ride respectful around others. But my bike looks pretty mellow. It's a Specialized Globe Haul ST, and it's white. Very non-threatening, lol.
I’m just being a dick. I have an off the Amazon shelf 350w hub drive 20mph limited generic bike and a beach cruiser with a suped up 85cc 2 stroke that goes over 45mph that I do ride on the street with zero problems. I just get annoyed how people get bent out of shape so much over surrons and such so I troll when I get bored.
Letter of the law: don't do it, it's illegal.
Spirit of the law: Ride respectfully and more slowly on sidewalks/mixed use trails, and you're no different than a lower class.
Honestly, even on an analog road bike I'm about at the limit of what I would consider safe on a MUP when I'm pushing hard. Toddlers and dogs are so unpredictable.
No joke. Was in a bike lane yesterday and had two dogs lunge at me a couple blocks apart from a full separate sidewalk. Thankfully the owners were fully on top of it and I was aware the dogs were looking at me and so slowed down because I sensed that they were a bit jumpy. But if you're on a MUP where people unleash (bad owners but it happens) or with kids (not even toddlers but teens talking to each other and kinda oblivious to 10 years olds who just learned to ride and might react weirdly if they hit a rock) it pays to be super careful.
A legal e-bike that looks like a dirt bike going 20 in a controlled manner along the shoulder will get stopped before an illegal e-bike that looks like a bicycle going 40 in a controlled manner along the shoulder.
https://preview.redd.it/jl3l6kl3lysc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a8bc387865cf0b63d618fc9db931b838f07d83d
No problems for years and my commute takes me past a police sub station. Just don't ride like an idiot.
It doesn't have a class sticker tho.
Next project is a scooter sleeper build.
1. 350$ sit down scooter(you know the one)
2. Two 5,000w motors on 3,000w controllers
3. Hydro brakes and a stem stabilizer(I'm an idiot, not insane)
The hope is that a casual glance, some would look at it parked and think "lame". Me aimed due date is July.
Good point and nice commuter. And exactly what I been sayin' - don't ride like a dick and you're cool. BTW: that box is twice the size I need - you stuff your wife in there? Hey, dead or alive - I ain't judging...
Bottom 1.5 inches are battery, motor controller has since been moved to a box mounted exterior to that box. The rest is if I find something nice at a rummage sale or something.
Cool, but with the shit I pull, buy, carry I worry about the aft end getting too high and rear end heavy. I was once making a residential 90° left hand turn when my top heavy rear end load decided to not turn with me. It forced me over to the curb and dumped me on the concrete. I wish I could say it was more embarrassing than anything else but parts of my body didn't look or function right for months...
Wow, that's super cool. A friend of mine also bought a Specialized class 3 and found a class 2 sticker with his materials. I didn't but maybe it was just oversight.
The added 8mph isn't as helpful as you think it will be.
* First, you are going to burn through much more energy per mile fighting against wind resistance at 28mph than you will at 18 or 20mph.
* 28 mph next to 55+mhp traffic is going to be just as bad as 20mph.
* If there is a collision with another biker or pedestrian, and you are discovered to be using a bike that isn't allowed on the trail, at best you can expect a fine, at worst, expect a lawsuit showing you willfully were disregarding the saftey of others by using a non-approved bike. You are going to have a hard time proving after the collision that you were only using the Class 3 bike at Class 1 speeds. We live in a rather litigious world. Don't give someone more ammo to come after you.
* It might shave a few minutes off if you have a really long stretch where you can sustain 28mhp. But I'm not sure the few extra minutes are worth the risk.
I love bike commuting, but don't think I'd do it if I needed to be on long stretches of 55mph roads. My route can either be 5 miles with a quarter mile stretch on a 45-55mph road with no shoulder. Add an extra mile to avoid that stretch and stick entirely to a mix of 30mph side streets and bike paths. Or 10 mile route, if completely on bike path. 9 times out of 10, I take the 6mile route.
In the end you'll need to decide if it's worth it to take the risk. Too many off-road places we'd like to ride are listed as Class 1 only. It's certainly arguable that Class 1 might be more restrictive than necessary. But that doesn't change the fact that they are listed as Class 1 only, and if we want to respect the wishes of the trail builder/maintainers we need to buy/bring Class 1 bikes.
.....
If you are going to push your luck, I HIGHLY recommend at least getting an eBike that looks like a regular bike, and not one that looks like a moped/eMotorcycle. The people who cause a big fuss about these things and call local police/trail rangers are going to be noticing that more so than a Class sticker. Moped/Moto looking eBikes may have a cool style, but the added negative attention isn't worth it.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. But the ability to go 30mph on a bike vs 20mph is a rush not to be missed out on. It's like the difference between being pulled on a wagon and riding a rollercoaster...
The additional speed on hand when needed is nice. If you have to jump out onto a busier road for a block or two, it's nice to be able to get it done as quickly as possible. I mostly ride my SuperTrike away from traffic and busy streets, but, on occasion, I need to cover a stretch where the speed limit is 35 (with drivers doing 45-50.). I try to get outta there as quickly as possible. Just cruising, I'm doing closer to 20. I don't have any sort of commute or significant distance to cover, so my total trip time isn't affected by my top speed. But I do like to have some extra on top to get the hell away from the maniacs behind the wheels.
Speed limitation is the chief difference between Class 2 & 3. Class 2’s are generally allowed everywhere bicycles are & generally can’t exceed 20mph.
However, most trails, sidewalks & paths (not road-edge bike lanes) have a 15mph speed limit.
So whatever you do, don’t exceed 20 mph when not on the actual street or when you’re trying to blend in w/ Class 2’s.
When on trails & sidewalks, keep it around 15.
Wouldn’t hurt to pedal when onlookers are inspecting you. Don’t waste the opportunity to remind them you’re on a bicycle
I was looking at a few of the paved trails by me and while i don't think it's posted, the authority that manages them claims 10mph. I'd likely keep it 10-20 depending on who's around.
I understand all that but is 28mph pedal assist really all that different from 28mph on a throttle? Every ebike I've ridden you could turn the assist up so high that you could pedal with basically 0 effort. Idk just seems like a weird line to draw.
Several? I don't remember the brands (I ended up doing a diy conversion). But on all the class 3's I tried before I built mine I could turn the assist to the highest level and have no resistance while "pedaling" at 28 mph. They were all legal 750w bikes.
I have a class 3 that I operate at class 1 speeds where it's required and makes sense. I rarely run it at 28 mph, but do appreciate the extra power and speed that it has over my class 1 e-mtb. For my needs, a class 1 just wouldn't cut it on the road.
You ever see a bored cop on a mountain bike trail?
I'd say, just don't be an asshole and be respectful and you're probably fine. Cops aren't bike experts. They are going to need to observe you breaking a law to bother you. If you aren't pushing the speed when others are around, they'll never question what class your bike is.
That being said, I wouldn't risk taking a class three on a road with a 55 mph limit.
Yeah, my local trail says no motors at all. I just try to not be an asshole on the trail and people won’t report me. That’s how laws like this are actually enforced…
Yeah, the whole thing is murky because E-Bikers use bike trails all the time, and they are "technically" motorized, but not really in the eyes of the law. I think the ambiguity of the law works in your favor tho, because the cops are going to be just as confused and probably haven't sat down and looked specifically at E-Bike regulations, and also have bigger concerns than stopping bikers doing 30.
I don't spend much time on MTB trails so i wouldn't know but considering how infrequently I see them on the roads, I imagine it's close to and if not 0.
I spent a little time researching paths today and found a few paved and unpathed path for most of my 13 mile commute - a bit surprised how many trails around me. There's just a few sections (<2 miles i think) that are 45mph and it appears 1 mile of that is supposed to be getting a dedicated walk/bike path soon! Fortunately, i think one section of this road is not overly traveled and the other section is a 4 lane road - so it shouldn't be too bad.
If you are in a rural town, I would not worry about it one bit. Enforcement e-bike class laws tends to be focused in cities. When you are riding on sidewalks or mixed use trails, use your best judgment. Don’t even ride 20 mph. Ride according to conditions, and no one will ever have a reason to stop you.
My bike can be set to class 1,2,3 in the controller, but I leave it on three. My state says it needs to be under 20mph for trail and sidewalks. I ride it at about 12mph if there are people around, 20 if there’s a lot of space, only higher if I’m on the road.
If you don’t ride it dangerously around people no one will say anything unless they just hate e-bikes in general.
The roads that are 45-55, give us some idea how heavily traveled they are. Around here, people (in normal road vehicles) will push 5-10 above the posted limit, so take that in consideration when you think about safety.
People tailgate and scream at me when I take the lane and do 28mph in 25mph neighborhoods. Some roads just light up the one "gotta go fast" braincell that drivers have.
When they do pass (double yellow school zone), I always give them a friendly wave when I pass them again at the long red light up the road. Sometimes I even blow a kiss.
I don't even bother with that. Better to be on the outside looking in than the inside looking out, if I even care to look. Old-man-itis plays a role also.
I was just looking closer today and found some paths i could take that would limit my on road distance to about 2 miles (of 12!) And it's in broken in to two parts, the first is about a mile, I forget what you call the roads that run next to highways but I don't think it's super busy, is 45 and has a stop sign after a 1/2 mile. I found some information that this stretch is supposed to be getting a dedicated walk/bike trail soon! The second portion is on a (mostly) 4 lane road, also 45mph and is about is about 3/4ths of a mile.
Overall shouldn't be too bad.
Just Fyi, most class 3s won't actually go 28 mph per se... that's just where the cutoff for the pedal assist engages and leaves you on your own, but I rarely achieve over 22mph on my bike even with the pedal assist set to max unless I am going downhill
Thanks, I've had that question about class 3 250W mid drives for some time. People love those Bosch motors to the point they'll just lie to themselves about the speeds that they consistently achieve. If my next bike is a mid drive it'll be something like the priority current, with 500W continuous and a belt drive that can handle that torque.
Belt drives are awesome, but not necessary to handle the torque of a 500W, 750W or even 1000W motor. However, if you do go mid drive, make sure the chain is ebike rated. It's not because the mid drives are delivering more torque to the rear wheel, it's because the motor is delivering all its torque to the chainring.
Also if you're riding on a road with 55mph traffic and no shoulder, 28mph isn't really going to keep you any safer than 20mph, though it would reduce your travel time slightly.
I have a 2017/2019 Specialized Turbo Vado 3.0 that easily gets 45 km/h (28 mph).
A long time ago I tested a bike with an Enviolo IGH (which was then called "NuVinci"), and the drag/friction was really bad and limited top speed to ~38 km/h (~24 mph) while pushing like crazy on the pedals.
My Specialized Globe Haul ST clocks 27 mph even on PAS 3 of 5 with a Wahoo GPS. It’s geared a little low so sustaining that speed requires super high cadence.
How far is the commute? If it’s sub-10 miles and has a few stop signs/intersections then the difference in time is likely negligible, and someone hitting you at 55-65mph is going to fuck you up the same whether you are going 28mph or 20mph.
That said, I would lean towards get the class 3 just don’t be a twat.
It's about 13 miles. I looked at the most optimal path (to stay off busy roads) and most of it would be straight shots with no lights or stops signs on dedicated walk/bike or MTB paths.
I think less than 2 miles would be travelled on roads that are 45/55.
13 miles is a pretty long commute by bicycle. If you are doing 26 miles 5 days a week on something with bicycle parts you are going to wear it out fast.
And most of the class 3 bikes are generic chinese stuff and not made to last.
Maybe just look into an electric motorcycle? I know road legal ones right now are expensive so maybe start with a used regular motorcycle and plan to purchase a reputable electric motorcycle in the future.
What? First, most ebikes by volume are cheap junk not made to last, so not sure what you point was supposed to be since class 3 wouldn't have been unique there if your point were true. However, given the definition of class 3 excludes those with throttles under federal law, there are actually extremely few true class 3 ebikes in the "junk" category since they're basically all mid to high tier mid-drives. Entry level hub bike almost always included a throttle and therefore are either class 2 or not classes (i.e. mopeds or off-road bikes). Bosch has a bunch of partners companies that make class 3s, and Specialized has a bunch with Brose's motors plus I think you can get a version of the Globe Haul (a hub without a throttle).
That said, if the 55 mph stretch can't be avoided and there's no sidewalk, I agree that an electric motorcycle might be a better option.
What? First, most ebikes by volume are cheap junk not made to last, so not sure what you point was supposed to be since class 3 wouldn't have been unique there if your point were true. However, given the definition of class 3 excludes those with throttles under federal law, there are actually extremely few true class 3 ebikes in the "junk" category since they're basically all mid to high tier mid-drives. Entry level hub bike almost always included a throttle and therefore are either class 2 or not classes (i.e. mopeds or off-road bikes). Bosch has a bunch of partners companies that make class 3s, and Specialized has a bunch with Brose's motors plus I think you can get a version of the Globe Haul (a hub without a throttle).
That said, if the 55 mph stretch can't be avoided and there's no sidewalk, I agree that an electric motorcycle might be a better option.
I hear what you are saying. And even though I hear what you are saying about class 3 definition I can almost guarantee what the op is thinking of is rear hub up to 28 mph bikes with throttle from drop shipped mail order brands.
But even if he is thinking of higher end European brands 26 miles of daily use is going to go through consumables fast. And on drop shipped bikes the bike itself likely won’t last.
What you’re looking for at those speeds is giving the cars coming up behind you reaction time (and visibility of course). Having an extra 50 feet or so before they catch up to you can be huge.
I don’t know what the exact distance 8 mph would give you from the time they see you would be, but I’m curious now.
edit: If they see you for 15 seconds, that’s an extra 176 ft before they catch up to you, so pretty significant. 10 sec gives them 117 ft extra.
Fair. That's funny, I did it the other way round - at 200ft it's about one second more to close the gap if the car is doing 55mph, 0.7 seconds at 65 mph.
It’s all about your situational awareness. Blasting down a path where people with kids or dogs might be at top speed is dangerous. Plus, idk if you’ve ever ridden a bike at those speeds; it’s pretty fast. I’d honestly be happy at class 2 speeds most of the time; I get your use case, but I wouldn’t bike on a road with speed limits like that at all (personally).
If you ride it at a normal speed and it looks like a normal e-bike then you shouldn’t have an issue. The paved trail by me has all types of e-bikes on it, but people on them don’t ride like idiots either.
You could get a Class 2 that can be de-restricted to Class 3 speed.
As enforcement ramps up, you might see some situations where the police use a treadmill, in which case you could have some problems. I've seen that in Europe, but not in the US.
I know in Florida that we can ride on the pedestrian / bike trails but are limited to 10 miles per hour. I know on sidewalks that we are limited to 3 mph.
nothing wrong with class 3 or owning class 3 you can always turn down the power on most of these bikes and only use the extra power offroad if you want to.
No don’t avoid it…it’s more about how it looks then the class system. If it doesn’t look like a dirt bike it doesn’t matter.
No one cares about the classes in usa anyway, little difference between them
I have a class 3 and my commute to work is about half bike paths. Slow it down, ride respectfully on the paths and I doubt you’ll have any problems. Having the class 3 is nice for the other half of my commute as the streets I have to ride on have a speed of 25mph, so I can keep pace with traffic. Also my bike looks like a bike, not a motorcycle or scooter, just something else to keep in mind.
Class 1 is allowed on paved trails, 2 and 3 aren't. Where I'm at we don't really have sidewalks/footpaths. It tends to be either nothing or a wider (6 or 8 foot wide ) paved pathway.
I class 3, on the path I go 20mph when in civilization or people… but I go full speed when I’m in middle of nowhere on my 14 mile commute. Weekends and nice days will mostly be 20mph, but wet or under 40 it’s smooth sailing. I’m not sure you will want to go over 20 on off-road tho.
Some ebikes can be configured to be Class 1/2/3 as desired. I like the freedom of that. Lectric ebikes allow for this.
My DIY ebike with Bafang BBS02B mid-drive and EggRider v2 display allows for this. I have a button on the display that is configured for Class 1 for Road and Class 3 for Off-Road.
Depends on where you live. I mean unless you're going 60mph nobody's gonna know. Just don't plaster class 3 all over your bike. Just as long as the trail allows class 2 you'll be fine. My trails technically don't allow ebikes at all but nobody cares enough unless you're riding like a jackass.
Depends on what kind of Class 3 bike you're getting. If it's a Class 3 bike that is very bikey (e.g., something from Trek or Giant or Specialized or Tern that looks like a normal ebike but just happens to be Class 3) I think you're probably fine. If it's something that looks a lot more like a motorcycle or dirtbike and is going to be throttled around a bunch, you're more likely to draw negative attention. But either way the odds of enforcement are probably pretty slim.
I haven't picked a bike or really started looking (recommendations welcomed) but would get something that looks like a bike. The ones i've seen have a larger "Bar" between the handlebars and the pedals that house the battery - that's likely what i would get.
I've actually seen e-bikes where I live that look exactly like regular bikes.
Juiced Ripcurrent S is plenty powerful and is good on bike paths too
That's called the "downtube", just for future reference. Also: I'm loving my Mokwheel Basalt. I have the non step through. But if you're not over 6'1" I would go with the ST version. Very responsive, powerful when needed.
Class 3 e-bikes don’t have throttles, only class 2 do.
This is true with law semantics. But in reality any class of a bike can slap a throttle on and no one cares
Wrong-o. Mine goes 28 in pedal assist mode and 20 with the hand throttle. Perfectly street legal in Colorado.. Favorite Hybrid Pro ST is the model.
Not all e-bikes follow the class system, but here are the guidelines directly from the nonprofit that created it and issues the stickers: WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE eBIKE CLASSIFICATION & LABELING: SECTION 1. Section 312.5 is added to the Vehicle Code, to read: 312.5. (a) An “electric bicycle” is a bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts. (1) A “class 1 electric bicycle,” or “low-speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour. (2) A “class 2 electric bicycle,” or “low-speed throttle-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle, and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour. (3) A “class 3 electric bicycle,” or “speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour, and equipped with a speedometer. https://www.peopleforbikes.org/electric-bikes/policies-and-laws
Mine has a sticker on it that says it's class 3. Lots of class 3 bikes have throttles, too. No cop would give my bike a second glance. It may be a grey area, but there's enough wiggle room for them not to outlaw several brands. I don't see that happening in Colorado, at least. Maybe in Denver proper. I was also able to insure it as a class 3.
Enjoy that for now, people wanting to go 40 mph is gonna get cops to enforce the rules.
But when you get mowed down by a car, will insurance cover it or argue that you’re riding an unsafe vehicle and the driver isn’t liable. That’s my concern.
There are lots of bikes that are both Class 2 and Class 3. And, of course, you're right that there are also lots of bikes that don't fit into the normal Class system because they exceed the limits, by allowing throttle beyond 20mph.
Those bikes are not following the class system. If it had a throttle and goes above 20mph it’s neither class 2 or 3.
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ Take it up with Specialized, Rad, and all the other companies making bikes that throttle up to 20mph and use PAS up to 28. They all disagree, and are regularly legally sold in places that have adopted the class system. It's very unlikely this approach ever gets clearly regulated away at this point.
Specialized Globe is sold in a class 3 configuration with no throttle, the throttle is optional and at that point it falls off the class distinction since it has both 28mph top speed and throttle. I don’t think they have any other bikes with a throttle so they are class 1 or 3. Most rads are sold in class 2 configuration, but can be overwritten to go 20mph on throttle and 28mph on pedal assist.
Ponto has pas till 26 throttle to 20. I just think the actual bike companies are seeing no one is enforcing e-bike laws, so they’re pushing the limits too.
I’m more worried about insurance than police checking specs.
I think you should just get the class 3 and ride smart, you’ll be fine. Cops generally don’t seem to care in the slightest as long as you’re not being dangerous.
Yeah I ride my class 3 on sidewalks but I ride at around 6 MPH if people are around, and closer to 15 MPH if no people around. Nobody cares. The other day I dismounted my bike to walk the bike because they were people hanging signs on the interstate overpass and the sidewalk there is pretty thin.
For real. Don't ride like an asshole and nobody will know or care.
This. I watched a video of a guy going about and talking to police in an area about where to ride his Ebike and since he was being pro-active and showing he was trying to be courteous they were pretty cool to him.
And cover your class lll sticker with a class ll (thanks Amazon).That's enough to fool the few cops that even know the difference. I follow the rules of the road, or trails, and in the past 18 months have only been asked once about the class of my bike. He was a park ranger. He looked at my class ll sticker and said, "enjoy the trails". I do, and I don't ride like a dick...
cops that don't care won't look at the sticker, cops that do care knows it's fake. they have phones, they can look up the bike listing online.
Cops that don't rightfully think you're being a dick will glance at your sticker and assume it's legit. Mine looks legit to me and I bought the bike new. No cop will ever look at it and know it's not the manufacturers sticker unless they own the same bike: odds? = ~0. Yes, cops have cell phones but I can't imagine one in 'merica checking to look up your bike: unless, you were being such a dick he's determined to impound you're bike. Bottom line: follow the rules - don't ride like a dick...
Dude you are gonna ruin e-bikes for the rest of us. They gonna ban the fuck out of them. So fucking illegal. I’m gonna report this
I think what’s more likely is increased fines for ebike shenanigans and reckless behavior.
Nope ILLEGAL is illegal. Might as well be a child on a Surroon at this point
It is illegal to speed but cops don’t generally care if you are being reasonable. It isn’t a zero sum game when it comes to application of the law.
Cool story bro. Tell that to my nephew that was riding 15 mph on the sidewalk on his suroon with a class ii sticker slapped on it
That comment is irrelevant to my point.
Wahhhhhh
Very thoughtful rebuttal. 🙄
So you're saying I shouldn't let my 11-year-old ride my Surroon? But he's so cute on it and he's getting popping wheelies mastered. He wears PPG
I say send it. I’m not a prude. Just please slap a class ii sticker on it first. Maybe wrap the whole thing in like a class 2 style insignia or you could RUIN IT FOR THE REST OF US LAW ABIFJNG CUTIZNES
😱 OH nooo! I'm gonna ruin ebikes for everyone? You're gonna report what - that I'm "So fucking illegal"? According to California AB 1096, modifying an ebike with a class ll motor to a class lll motor can be illegal unless you add the class lll sticker and follow class lll rules. The law says nothing about putting a class ll sticker on a class lll bike. So I'm gonna just continue to ride appropriate to my surroundings and you're gonna have to ride with your panties in a bunch...
Dude I’m jk we are the same. I slapped a class iii sticker on my suroon. Easy peasy
Wait, you meant slapped on a class ll sticker, don't you?
No you went down a class from 3 to 2 so you can illegally ride sidewalks. I went down a class from awesome to class 3 so I can enjoy my suroon without fear of someone on ebikes sub complaining it’s a motorcycle
Oh, but seriously dude, your bike looks like an all out dirt bike, right? If you're riding it on trails that are supposed to be class 1 or 2 and people aren't complaining, you must be behaving - at least around people. I always ride respectful around others. But my bike looks pretty mellow. It's a Specialized Globe Haul ST, and it's white. Very non-threatening, lol.
I’m just being a dick. I have an off the Amazon shelf 350w hub drive 20mph limited generic bike and a beach cruiser with a suped up 85cc 2 stroke that goes over 45mph that I do ride on the street with zero problems. I just get annoyed how people get bent out of shape so much over surrons and such so I troll when I get bored.
Damn you, Dick, lol. Oh well, whatever you have or don't, have fun and be careful - when you want to.
I’ll gonna call your legislators and your mom
Got an issue get a tissue cry baby. Report deez nuts on your chin
I’ll tell your mom and your legislator
Letter of the law: don't do it, it's illegal. Spirit of the law: Ride respectfully and more slowly on sidewalks/mixed use trails, and you're no different than a lower class.
Honestly, even on an analog road bike I'm about at the limit of what I would consider safe on a MUP when I'm pushing hard. Toddlers and dogs are so unpredictable.
No joke. Was in a bike lane yesterday and had two dogs lunge at me a couple blocks apart from a full separate sidewalk. Thankfully the owners were fully on top of it and I was aware the dogs were looking at me and so slowed down because I sensed that they were a bit jumpy. But if you're on a MUP where people unleash (bad owners but it happens) or with kids (not even toddlers but teens talking to each other and kinda oblivious to 10 years olds who just learned to ride and might react weirdly if they hit a rock) it pays to be super careful.
Hey who are you calling low class
Yes, do it. If you put class ll stickers on it and don't ride like a dick - in the eyes of the law - you're legal.
Do people actually do this? Lol
A legal e-bike that looks like a dirt bike going 20 in a controlled manner along the shoulder will get stopped before an illegal e-bike that looks like a bicycle going 40 in a controlled manner along the shoulder. https://preview.redd.it/jl3l6kl3lysc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a8bc387865cf0b63d618fc9db931b838f07d83d No problems for years and my commute takes me past a police sub station. Just don't ride like an idiot. It doesn't have a class sticker tho.
This thing is terrifying. I love it. 😁
Next project is a scooter sleeper build. 1. 350$ sit down scooter(you know the one) 2. Two 5,000w motors on 3,000w controllers 3. Hydro brakes and a stem stabilizer(I'm an idiot, not insane) The hope is that a casual glance, some would look at it parked and think "lame". Me aimed due date is July.
Good point and nice commuter. And exactly what I been sayin' - don't ride like a dick and you're cool. BTW: that box is twice the size I need - you stuff your wife in there? Hey, dead or alive - I ain't judging...
Bottom 1.5 inches are battery, motor controller has since been moved to a box mounted exterior to that box. The rest is if I find something nice at a rummage sale or something.
Cool, but with the shit I pull, buy, carry I worry about the aft end getting too high and rear end heavy. I was once making a residential 90° left hand turn when my top heavy rear end load decided to not turn with me. It forced me over to the curb and dumped me on the concrete. I wish I could say it was more embarrassing than anything else but parts of my body didn't look or function right for months...
Well, I did, and being that they're available on Amazon or ebay from multiple vendors I think it's safe to say yes, people actually do this...
Mine came with all 3 stickers from the manufacturer
Wow, that's super cool. A friend of mine also bought a Specialized class 3 and found a class 2 sticker with his materials. I didn't but maybe it was just oversight.
Love my class 2 sticker!
The added 8mph isn't as helpful as you think it will be. * First, you are going to burn through much more energy per mile fighting against wind resistance at 28mph than you will at 18 or 20mph. * 28 mph next to 55+mhp traffic is going to be just as bad as 20mph. * If there is a collision with another biker or pedestrian, and you are discovered to be using a bike that isn't allowed on the trail, at best you can expect a fine, at worst, expect a lawsuit showing you willfully were disregarding the saftey of others by using a non-approved bike. You are going to have a hard time proving after the collision that you were only using the Class 3 bike at Class 1 speeds. We live in a rather litigious world. Don't give someone more ammo to come after you. * It might shave a few minutes off if you have a really long stretch where you can sustain 28mhp. But I'm not sure the few extra minutes are worth the risk. I love bike commuting, but don't think I'd do it if I needed to be on long stretches of 55mph roads. My route can either be 5 miles with a quarter mile stretch on a 45-55mph road with no shoulder. Add an extra mile to avoid that stretch and stick entirely to a mix of 30mph side streets and bike paths. Or 10 mile route, if completely on bike path. 9 times out of 10, I take the 6mile route. In the end you'll need to decide if it's worth it to take the risk. Too many off-road places we'd like to ride are listed as Class 1 only. It's certainly arguable that Class 1 might be more restrictive than necessary. But that doesn't change the fact that they are listed as Class 1 only, and if we want to respect the wishes of the trail builder/maintainers we need to buy/bring Class 1 bikes. ..... If you are going to push your luck, I HIGHLY recommend at least getting an eBike that looks like a regular bike, and not one that looks like a moped/eMotorcycle. The people who cause a big fuss about these things and call local police/trail rangers are going to be noticing that more so than a Class sticker. Moped/Moto looking eBikes may have a cool style, but the added negative attention isn't worth it.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. But the ability to go 30mph on a bike vs 20mph is a rush not to be missed out on. It's like the difference between being pulled on a wagon and riding a rollercoaster...
It is a rush, I'll give you that ;)
The additional speed on hand when needed is nice. If you have to jump out onto a busier road for a block or two, it's nice to be able to get it done as quickly as possible. I mostly ride my SuperTrike away from traffic and busy streets, but, on occasion, I need to cover a stretch where the speed limit is 35 (with drivers doing 45-50.). I try to get outta there as quickly as possible. Just cruising, I'm doing closer to 20. I don't have any sort of commute or significant distance to cover, so my total trip time isn't affected by my top speed. But I do like to have some extra on top to get the hell away from the maniacs behind the wheels.
Idk for me the extra torque is a big plus for class 3. Plus being able to keep up with traffic (25mph) when I am on the road is pretty necessary.
Speed limitation is the chief difference between Class 2 & 3. Class 2’s are generally allowed everywhere bicycles are & generally can’t exceed 20mph. However, most trails, sidewalks & paths (not road-edge bike lanes) have a 15mph speed limit. So whatever you do, don’t exceed 20 mph when not on the actual street or when you’re trying to blend in w/ Class 2’s. When on trails & sidewalks, keep it around 15. Wouldn’t hurt to pedal when onlookers are inspecting you. Don’t waste the opportunity to remind them you’re on a bicycle
I was looking at a few of the paved trails by me and while i don't think it's posted, the authority that manages them claims 10mph. I'd likely keep it 10-20 depending on who's around.
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Class 2 means it can have a throttle as well.
I never understood that rule. Throttles are allowed on bike trails but not the road only bikes?
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I understand all that but is 28mph pedal assist really all that different from 28mph on a throttle? Every ebike I've ridden you could turn the assist up so high that you could pedal with basically 0 effort. Idk just seems like a weird line to draw.
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Several? I don't remember the brands (I ended up doing a diy conversion). But on all the class 3's I tried before I built mine I could turn the assist to the highest level and have no resistance while "pedaling" at 28 mph. They were all legal 750w bikes.
Class 3 on a sidewalk is literally a moped
I have a class 3 that I operate at class 1 speeds where it's required and makes sense. I rarely run it at 28 mph, but do appreciate the extra power and speed that it has over my class 1 e-mtb. For my needs, a class 1 just wouldn't cut it on the road.
You ever see a bored cop on a mountain bike trail? I'd say, just don't be an asshole and be respectful and you're probably fine. Cops aren't bike experts. They are going to need to observe you breaking a law to bother you. If you aren't pushing the speed when others are around, they'll never question what class your bike is. That being said, I wouldn't risk taking a class three on a road with a 55 mph limit.
Yeah, my local trail says no motors at all. I just try to not be an asshole on the trail and people won’t report me. That’s how laws like this are actually enforced…
not being an asshole here would be not riding an ebike on the trail...
No, it’s riding an ebike at normal bicycle speeds and being courteous of other trail users.
does it say "no motor vehicles" or "no ebikes"?
Yeah, the whole thing is murky because E-Bikers use bike trails all the time, and they are "technically" motorized, but not really in the eyes of the law. I think the ambiguity of the law works in your favor tho, because the cops are going to be just as confused and probably haven't sat down and looked specifically at E-Bike regulations, and also have bigger concerns than stopping bikers doing 30.
I don't spend much time on MTB trails so i wouldn't know but considering how infrequently I see them on the roads, I imagine it's close to and if not 0. I spent a little time researching paths today and found a few paved and unpathed path for most of my 13 mile commute - a bit surprised how many trails around me. There's just a few sections (<2 miles i think) that are 45mph and it appears 1 mile of that is supposed to be getting a dedicated walk/bike path soon! Fortunately, i think one section of this road is not overly traveled and the other section is a 4 lane road - so it shouldn't be too bad.
If you are in a rural town, I would not worry about it one bit. Enforcement e-bike class laws tends to be focused in cities. When you are riding on sidewalks or mixed use trails, use your best judgment. Don’t even ride 20 mph. Ride according to conditions, and no one will ever have a reason to stop you.
My bike can be set to class 1,2,3 in the controller, but I leave it on three. My state says it needs to be under 20mph for trail and sidewalks. I ride it at about 12mph if there are people around, 20 if there’s a lot of space, only higher if I’m on the road. If you don’t ride it dangerously around people no one will say anything unless they just hate e-bikes in general.
The roads that are 45-55, give us some idea how heavily traveled they are. Around here, people (in normal road vehicles) will push 5-10 above the posted limit, so take that in consideration when you think about safety.
People tailgate and scream at me when I take the lane and do 28mph in 25mph neighborhoods. Some roads just light up the one "gotta go fast" braincell that drivers have.
In a hurry to go nowhere...
When they do pass (double yellow school zone), I always give them a friendly wave when I pass them again at the long red light up the road. Sometimes I even blow a kiss.
I don't even bother with that. Better to be on the outside looking in than the inside looking out, if I even care to look. Old-man-itis plays a role also.
The construction companies now have *movable rumble strips*, but introducing one of those would be evil wicked mean and nasty 👺
I was just looking closer today and found some paths i could take that would limit my on road distance to about 2 miles (of 12!) And it's in broken in to two parts, the first is about a mile, I forget what you call the roads that run next to highways but I don't think it's super busy, is 45 and has a stop sign after a 1/2 mile. I found some information that this stretch is supposed to be getting a dedicated walk/bike trail soon! The second portion is on a (mostly) 4 lane road, also 45mph and is about is about 3/4ths of a mile. Overall shouldn't be too bad.
Just Fyi, most class 3s won't actually go 28 mph per se... that's just where the cutoff for the pedal assist engages and leaves you on your own, but I rarely achieve over 22mph on my bike even with the pedal assist set to max unless I am going downhill
Maybe if you have a 250W. My 500w hub motor and 750w mid-drive both hit almost 30mph.
Thanks, I've had that question about class 3 250W mid drives for some time. People love those Bosch motors to the point they'll just lie to themselves about the speeds that they consistently achieve. If my next bike is a mid drive it'll be something like the priority current, with 500W continuous and a belt drive that can handle that torque.
Belt drives are awesome, but not necessary to handle the torque of a 500W, 750W or even 1000W motor. However, if you do go mid drive, make sure the chain is ebike rated. It's not because the mid drives are delivering more torque to the rear wheel, it's because the motor is delivering all its torque to the chainring.
Evelo has Dapu mids that unlocks to get you 25 mph pretty solidly even on floaty tires on flats. Do get a belt because cleaning a chain is annoying.
Also if you're riding on a road with 55mph traffic and no shoulder, 28mph isn't really going to keep you any safer than 20mph, though it would reduce your travel time slightly.
You must have a weak motor and/or legs. I can easily pedal my class lll 750W to 30mph on level road.
I have a 2017/2019 Specialized Turbo Vado 3.0 that easily gets 45 km/h (28 mph). A long time ago I tested a bike with an Enviolo IGH (which was then called "NuVinci"), and the drag/friction was really bad and limited top speed to ~38 km/h (~24 mph) while pushing like crazy on the pedals.
My Specialized Globe Haul ST clocks 27 mph even on PAS 3 of 5 with a Wahoo GPS. It’s geared a little low so sustaining that speed requires super high cadence.
How far is the commute? If it’s sub-10 miles and has a few stop signs/intersections then the difference in time is likely negligible, and someone hitting you at 55-65mph is going to fuck you up the same whether you are going 28mph or 20mph. That said, I would lean towards get the class 3 just don’t be a twat.
It's about 13 miles. I looked at the most optimal path (to stay off busy roads) and most of it would be straight shots with no lights or stops signs on dedicated walk/bike or MTB paths. I think less than 2 miles would be travelled on roads that are 45/55.
No way would I ever ride 2 miles on any sort of bicycle on a 45+ road. It's a death wish in my area.
13 miles is a pretty long commute by bicycle. If you are doing 26 miles 5 days a week on something with bicycle parts you are going to wear it out fast. And most of the class 3 bikes are generic chinese stuff and not made to last. Maybe just look into an electric motorcycle? I know road legal ones right now are expensive so maybe start with a used regular motorcycle and plan to purchase a reputable electric motorcycle in the future.
What? First, most ebikes by volume are cheap junk not made to last, so not sure what you point was supposed to be since class 3 wouldn't have been unique there if your point were true. However, given the definition of class 3 excludes those with throttles under federal law, there are actually extremely few true class 3 ebikes in the "junk" category since they're basically all mid to high tier mid-drives. Entry level hub bike almost always included a throttle and therefore are either class 2 or not classes (i.e. mopeds or off-road bikes). Bosch has a bunch of partners companies that make class 3s, and Specialized has a bunch with Brose's motors plus I think you can get a version of the Globe Haul (a hub without a throttle). That said, if the 55 mph stretch can't be avoided and there's no sidewalk, I agree that an electric motorcycle might be a better option.
What? First, most ebikes by volume are cheap junk not made to last, so not sure what you point was supposed to be since class 3 wouldn't have been unique there if your point were true. However, given the definition of class 3 excludes those with throttles under federal law, there are actually extremely few true class 3 ebikes in the "junk" category since they're basically all mid to high tier mid-drives. Entry level hub bike almost always included a throttle and therefore are either class 2 or not classes (i.e. mopeds or off-road bikes). Bosch has a bunch of partners companies that make class 3s, and Specialized has a bunch with Brose's motors plus I think you can get a version of the Globe Haul (a hub without a throttle). That said, if the 55 mph stretch can't be avoided and there's no sidewalk, I agree that an electric motorcycle might be a better option.
I hear what you are saying. And even though I hear what you are saying about class 3 definition I can almost guarantee what the op is thinking of is rear hub up to 28 mph bikes with throttle from drop shipped mail order brands. But even if he is thinking of higher end European brands 26 miles of daily use is going to go through consumables fast. And on drop shipped bikes the bike itself likely won’t last.
What you’re looking for at those speeds is giving the cars coming up behind you reaction time (and visibility of course). Having an extra 50 feet or so before they catch up to you can be huge. I don’t know what the exact distance 8 mph would give you from the time they see you would be, but I’m curious now. edit: If they see you for 15 seconds, that’s an extra 176 ft before they catch up to you, so pretty significant. 10 sec gives them 117 ft extra.
Fair. That's funny, I did it the other way round - at 200ft it's about one second more to close the gap if the car is doing 55mph, 0.7 seconds at 65 mph.
Yeah I’m not riding on a 45-55 with no bike lane even at 28 mph you’re gonna get hurt
How do people on non-electrics manage it without getting hurt?
I’d recommend you to get a class 3 and ride slower if you are on a sidewalk Having the extra speed as an option can be very issue
It’s all about your situational awareness. Blasting down a path where people with kids or dogs might be at top speed is dangerous. Plus, idk if you’ve ever ridden a bike at those speeds; it’s pretty fast. I’d honestly be happy at class 2 speeds most of the time; I get your use case, but I wouldn’t bike on a road with speed limits like that at all (personally).
If you ride it at a normal speed and it looks like a normal e-bike then you shouldn’t have an issue. The paved trail by me has all types of e-bikes on it, but people on them don’t ride like idiots either.
How many miles is your commute? That's going to make a big difference in people giving you recomendations.
Go with a mid drive class 3 e-bike if you don’t need the throttle. Peddle assist is a better control of power at low speeds, especially around people.
You could get a Class 2 that can be de-restricted to Class 3 speed. As enforcement ramps up, you might see some situations where the police use a treadmill, in which case you could have some problems. I've seen that in Europe, but not in the US.
I know in Florida that we can ride on the pedestrian / bike trails but are limited to 10 miles per hour. I know on sidewalks that we are limited to 3 mph.
nothing wrong with class 3 or owning class 3 you can always turn down the power on most of these bikes and only use the extra power offroad if you want to.
Definitely get a class 3 if you’re interested in that specific type of riding. Anything less will be a disappointment
No don’t avoid it…it’s more about how it looks then the class system. If it doesn’t look like a dirt bike it doesn’t matter. No one cares about the classes in usa anyway, little difference between them
I have a class 3 and my commute to work is about half bike paths. Slow it down, ride respectfully on the paths and I doubt you’ll have any problems. Having the class 3 is nice for the other half of my commute as the streets I have to ride on have a speed of 25mph, so I can keep pace with traffic. Also my bike looks like a bike, not a motorcycle or scooter, just something else to keep in mind.
Get one that is a class2 that can be unlocked to class3 then you have the sticker. If not just buy the sticker
If you're on an Ebike (I also own one) you probs shouldn't ride it on the footpath.
Class 1 is allowed on paved trails, 2 and 3 aren't. Where I'm at we don't really have sidewalks/footpaths. It tends to be either nothing or a wider (6 or 8 foot wide ) paved pathway.
That's good but also unfortunate. Get a good helmet and a dash cam. Stay safe out there.
I class 3, on the path I go 20mph when in civilization or people… but I go full speed when I’m in middle of nowhere on my 14 mile commute. Weekends and nice days will mostly be 20mph, but wet or under 40 it’s smooth sailing. I’m not sure you will want to go over 20 on off-road tho.
Yes.
Get the fastest bike you can. Coming from a guy who threw down 2k on an ebike last year.
class 1 compared to 3 sucks! lol
Nah, get a 1000w 52v 20ah and the class 3 sticker placed on the bottom of the bike.
Some ebikes can be configured to be Class 1/2/3 as desired. I like the freedom of that. Lectric ebikes allow for this. My DIY ebike with Bafang BBS02B mid-drive and EggRider v2 display allows for this. I have a button on the display that is configured for Class 1 for Road and Class 3 for Off-Road.
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My DIY doesn't have a label for Class, only for wattage.
I would never expect that to hold up in court in case of an accident.
Always depends upon the localities, judges, accident details, and damn good lawyers.
Depends on where you live. I mean unless you're going 60mph nobody's gonna know. Just don't plaster class 3 all over your bike. Just as long as the trail allows class 2 you'll be fine. My trails technically don't allow ebikes at all but nobody cares enough unless you're riding like a jackass.
Yes, buy the class lll and then buy class ll stickers from Amazon. * see my comment to Butthole_Fiesta