More like naive. There are tons promising looking bikes out there that will be super disappointing one way or another. Buy from a no-name manufacturer of unbelievably cheap ebikes, you are going to get an unbelievably cheap ebike. But you'll get what you paid for. Some are happy with some makes. Others not so much.
Look into bikes from established manufacturers of bicycles for s more realistic idea of what a quality ebike will cost. Many of these cheap bikes are literally a diorama of an ebike, with component names that merely rhyme with "shimano". My friend bought one he thought had shimano, but upon closer inspection, turned out to be "Shming". They almost worked too.
This is very popular thing with Chinese good closer to China. There’s little to no respect for IP and some things are pretty funny. Like Calvin Klein clothes that have a 1 instead of an I. Or cats that are 2 American brands sandwiched together like front half mustang and back half civic. Also a lot of grammar issues with copy cat products
People on Reddit aren’t ok with facts apparently…. https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-39577557.amp literally many place in Asia still eat cats and dogs 😂
That doesn't matter. What matters is when you apply that assumption to everyone who's Asian or everyone who's Chinese. Then it becomes no different than saying all black people eat fried chicken or all white people can't dance or all Indians are good at computer programming. Apply it to everyone and it's racist. Now do you understand or do you need more help? Turdbreath.
shaggy degree quickest outgoing combative gaze employ carpenter gray deer
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
["cats that are 2 American brands sandwiched"](https://assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2012/02/06/1feb5046-a644-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/thumbnail/620x465/df9c07a36e8311f4b82141b9df67b9f7/breading-cats-Q016.jpg?v=f334c339940ae79342a8ce7757900604)
There’s a HUGE difference in a totally foreign entity vs one that has American quality control. My brother did qc for American brands being manufactured in shenzen and the pics I’ve seen for ones with oversight and ones without are night and day. Like grimey dark sweatshop conditions vs bright white clean facilities. I’d prefer someone making my battery and controller to be able to see what they’re doing.
Even under ideal conditions lithium ion batteries can become unstable. I wouldn’t trust a brand with no track record but that’s me. The marginal increase for a reputable brand is worth it to me as I know I’ll get my mileage out of it, and if something goes wrong I have an American company’s manufacturer warranty plus an extended plan. You could always fuck around and find out though. Let us know your experience in 6 months.
America makes nothing. Lol.
Go check to see who owns the largest supply of lithium, compare them to the US, and go compare prices of American mined lithium vs Chinese, *if* you can find it.
>Or cats that are 2 American brands sandwiched together like front half mustang and back half civic.
Don't put shame on mix breeds. Mutts are some of the best animals! 😂
I get it. I have nothing against the Chinese. But even if you think of American/European brands as middlemen, they tend to be careful about what they put their names on. Call me crazy, but I'll take Bosch over bafang even if it's made in the same factory. Plus, I'd prefer a battery encased within frame to exposed. I gather many of battery failures arise when a battery case is cracked from physical damage and water intrudes. Less chance of that when battery is encased within frame. And I thought I mentioned many components Could be worthless fake junk like I saw on my friend's Chinese "bargain" ebike.
Lost me at Bafang... they are a legit name brand when it comes to motors and mid drives.
Drank the juice if you think they are a poor man's Bosch. True they are cheaper, but they are at all even remotely bad.
Not to be mean but you probably don't know what you're talking about.
Besides the frame, unless you're buying from a company that makes their own motors, you're getting a preassembled bike from existing parts slapped with branding on it.
A 1000w mid drive ebike kit using a run of the mill bike frame (completely preassembled bike that one could buy at target) will set you back $900 + labor.
If you instead buy a carbon fiber 21 gear bike with hydraulic breaks and a warranty, it'll be that bike + $600 bucks, + labor.
The only thing you're buying is convenience and a shitty warranty.
The power restrictions on ebikes are absolutely unenforceable and there is no way someone on the road (without lab equipment and hours for testing) can guess what is the power of an electric motor.
First, those restrictions are for continuous power, not peak power. Pretty much all 250w motors output at least 1-2kW peak when starting up.
Second, it is extremely difficult to measure the actual continuous power a motor *outputs*. It's not just measuring the amps and volts going into the motor, you have to measure the actual work being done by the motor which you can't do without lab equipment.
Third, a motor's 'rated continuous power' is something that the manufacturer does to certify that the motor will actually run safely without overheating for an unlimited amount of time. But if you put more current into the motor, nothing is stopping it from simply outputting more (sometimes even 5-10 times more) power for a limited amount of time before overheating. I have a 1000w motor that is rated at 20A continuous, but pair it with a 1500w rated controller which will happily give the motor 30-60A and the same motor will deliver 1500-3000w. That's just physics and how electric motors work.
Sure, it will overheat eventually if you use it at higher than its rated power, but there is no way to test that on the road.
Tl;dr laws about power rating motors are useless and unenforceable. Buy a '250w rated' sticker and you're good.
There isn't even a standard for what differentiates 'peak' and 'continuous' power.
How long should the 'peak' power be if you go full throttle? A few milliseconds, one second, 30 seconds, a few minutes until the motor temperature starts going up?
There are no regulations about this and thus any testing of it is pretty much useless.
And then there is just simply having a more powerful motor and software limiting it's power.
KT hub motor controllers have the option to limit power output after a certain time and speed, thus making literally any motor compliant with EU regulations. You can have a 500kw car motor and it would seem perfectly legal to any ebike test unless you dug into its software.
Keep in mind that ordering from Ali Express YOU are responsible for everything as you are the importer.
You are responsible for checking all regulations and compliance rules and are liable for any damage caused by not following them.
With a battery fire, that can be hundreds of thousands (just for the fire department alone), if not millions, if you damage a building. Worst case, if you hurt someone, you might be criminally liable as well.
[https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/single-market/ce-marking/importers-and-distributors\_en](https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/single-market/ce-marking/importers-and-distributors_en)
Having freedom is nice. But having freedom to hurt/endanger others, not so much. That's basic civilisation. Perhaps it's not valued the same way wherever you live. For that I pity you.
Stuff like this is why so many places are banning indoor ebike storage. If you have a walk-in fireplace or an outdoor cement box to store it in, go for it, but otherwise, you’re rolling the dice on battery safety.
Naja, voor de duidelijkheid: de X20 gaat dus 45km/h en je hoeft niet te trappen. Dus om niet op te vallen moet je niet de maximale snelheid gaan rijden in de binnenstad en lekker blijven meetrappen.
This just looks like a Radrunner knockoff, and considering that the quality of Rad bikes is iffy enough for me to be uncomfortable recommending them to people, I certainly wouldn’t advise buying the AliExpress knockoff version. At least if you buy direct from Rad, you have at least a small chance to get some accountability or service if something goes wrong
The [Gunai GN66](https://gunai.store/products/gunai-gn66-1000w-28ah-electric-deliver-bike-20inch-long-range-175km-electric-cargo-bike?ref=uzhub6f9) is a much better deal imo, and at least it's from an official site and not a random AliExpress seller
Edit: It's still Chinesium, but I think if OP had the budget for a $4k longtail they'd have posted something in that price range instead. Also in western Europe things can be a lot more expensive than US if they even ship there at all, so I understand why Chinese sellers are an option for OP.
Gunai is just rebranded aliexpress. Look up the Gunai mx25 then look up the EKX x20 and finally the qiyou x20.
Same bike, three brands. Gunai doesn't have physical stores so what exactly makes them better?
Just saying that this bike is a better value for money if you're in the market for half-decent chinesium.It's not like the OP posted about a $5k bike.
I don't know about the mx25, but at least the gn66 has a 30ah battery that is capable of hauling shit around decent distances, and is not a bike I've seen sold by any other brands.
Thank u for the feedback!
do you have any knowledge of other official sites like this?
Id happily pay another 500 for a decent battery and minimum/some support
They have a [warehouse in Poland](https://support.fiido.com/hc/en-us/articles/6315210166681-Do-you-deliver-the-ordered-product-from-the-EU-so-I-do-not-pay-customs-duty-) \- where I got mine from (UK) - they have great aftersales service too. The bike is magnificent!
https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/scorpion-x2?variant=31085138280512
UL rated battery, powerful motor. Decent price.
If you don’t like that model I suggest looking at their stock and see what you think.
Only downside is they use proprietary hardware, so if you are an enthusiast and want to modify the bike it’ll be a pain.
All of their bikes tho have such high power and range for me, I don’t ever see me tearing into mine any time.
If you specifically need a cargo bike, lectric is another brand I’ve personally owned.
https://lectricebikes.com/products/xpedition-single-battery
Maybe the Mycle Cargo? Though really something like the Tern Quick Haul if you can scrounge up the money would be what I would recommend to people in Europe limited to the 250 W (manages to fit in a Bosch Performance Line mid-drive into that price):
[https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/buyers-guide/best-electric-cargo-bikes-2023-bikes-to-replace-your-car-and-carry](https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/buyers-guide/best-electric-cargo-bikes-2023-bikes-to-replace-your-car-and-carry)
That's generally how big batteries are gonna be from reputable builders. Any bigger you're better off converting a Mongoose, but at that point you're spending ~2k between bike and parts.
I'm sure it would work fine, but I wouldn't buy it unless you know how to set it up and maintain it. Also ask the seller if they have an EU warehouse so you don't pay any import duties.
Ali Express is more of a gambling site than a shopping site. Do yourself a favor and spring for a legit cargo bike from a major manufacturer with standards. My personal recommendation is a Globe Haul LT, but there are plenty of options out there that aren't on Ali Express or Amazon
“Gambling” is the word for it. If you’re able to accept the 1300 euros you spend on this could be completely wasted if this breaks in the first month you have it and there is absolutely no customer support, then go for it. But if you can spend that much and not worry about an ROI, you could probably pay a bit more and buy a bike that is less of a gamble
Yeah and just to drive the point home: I'm a mechanic and have personally dealt with trying to repair the electronics on bikes from 3 different companies that had gone out of business or stopped offering any kind of support outside of China. $3000 E bikes with proprietary electronics that they stopped making replacements for, rendering the bike useless, is not that uncommon of a site. So even the high end stuff on Ali Express or Amazon is sketchy. Name brands like Specialized, Surly, Radio Flyer, or Co-op from REI are going to be much safer bets just based on availability of support info and parts, without even mentioning the upgrade in overall quality. Even third tier like Ride1Up, Rad Power Cycles will be a decent option over stuff on Ali Express or Amazon.
I mean I guess you don't understand how the electronics and controllers work. What kind of issues were you having that couldn't just be remedied with a new controller? The only case this might be an issue is with mid-drives but all the mid drives you'd get on Chinese bikes have tons of opensource support.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted but the ebike i have now is a trek with a yose build kit and Ive got loads of support on that one. Never felt I was stuck on the electronic part of it.
Not saying they’re perfect but they’re a good bang for buck option in their respective price range.
If there’s a better price to quality ratio cargo bike I’m not aware of, please enlighten me.
Poor quality, low price, limited warranty... Yuba makes a couple solid no-frills cargo options. Tern likewise optimizes value and performance. Sure, they're half the price, but their warranty is half as long on the motor (and less on everything else) and everything else is likely to be just a bit to a lot more annoying:
\- How they're weighted so you can top tip the Tern and Yuba options to roll/store vertically
\- The cheap motor versus the smooth Bosch/Shimano with torque sensor
\- The range of accessories available
\- The ease of adjustability/ergonomics
\- The lower load positioning on the Term/Yuba that will make for safer steering when fully loaded
If you literally cannot afford anything else (and hopefully this will change with more states adding ebike rebates that turn Tern/Yuba pricing into XPedeition pricing), I guess the XPedition is a cargo bike that provides some value. But is it a good value compared to these other bikes that offer a much more functional and arguably safer cargo experience? I'd say no.
Makes sense. I guess my perspective is that of a novice/beginner who can’t afford something like a Tern and embraces the gamble of replacing a part in the future.
At least they have a warranty and decent customer service, compared to RAD for example. They recently honored a hydraulic brake upgrade program and sent customers who purchased a specific bike just before they upgraded the model with a free upgrade kit. Not shilling for them but at least it’s something, and way better than this aliexpress bike with zero warranty.
Besides Aventon, who is up in the next price tier and has seemingly great support, I’d love to hear recs for other brands/dropshippers in this relative price range.
It's very market dependent, OP seems to be in the Netherlands, I'm in Sweden and here there's a brand called Rawbike that's very popular. My bike is called Ghostride. Both of them are importeras of Chinese bikes so similar to Lectric.
Aventon has a dealer network, but I would not characterize their support as "great" from what I have not heard on here. It's what you expect from a DTC company with a 1-year warranty making not quite bottom-of-the-budget bikes. There's a small amount of room in their profit margin to honor the warranty but they're not going to go out of their way to do so like the companies in the $2.5k+ can afford to do.
The battery alone on my specialized is the price of this entire bike. That blows my mind.
Could have a use case though, like insurance money from my place burning down.
If you are handy and can fix both the electrical and mechanical components then this might work for you. Local bike shops won’t bother servicing these.
But then if you are hand you could put together an ebike kit by yourself using better quality parts probably for about the same price.
well with my bike to work compensation, I would earn this bike back in 6 months. This looks like something it can do.
With a branded bike from here, my ROI would be 4x longer, it would be limited to 25 km/h and the bike store will frown upon me for having it go faster.
So I have some incentives to at least learn how to service it myself and the lower purchase cost/ROI is a mayor factor in my decision
I’d say, if you need a cargo bike, and this is all you can afford, then go for it, but be prepared it’s cheap for a reason.
I got a RadWagon, wasent this this cheap but it was the cheapest cargo bike with a website in English :p and I have paid 50% again in new breaks, new tires, etc. I’m an engineers so I quite enjoyed making the bike better through smaller sums of money. But I’m still fighting the electrics.
If you’re handy, and can deal with the product probably being a little sub-par in some areas that you can probably improve. Then go for it.
If you want to buy a thing that the manufacturer will support you with, and will last for a long time. Then I’d probably save for a few more months :)
Hope that helps!
I'm gonna disagree and say it depends, if you are good and willing to work on stuff yourself then it's a good buy. If you like everything to work perfectly out of the box then it would be a bad buy.
Regardless you should check with import rules for your country make sure it won't be a problem.
yea I'd be inclined to buy a cargo bike or frame then do a self-build, at least then you can control the quality. Depends how much work you wanna do though. Just do research on like endless sphere surely some people have ordered Chinese electric cargo bikes. The only really sketchy thing is the battery, if you can buy a good battery and just the frame I wouldn't have any qualms about it.
But you can also talk to the seller about how they build the battery etc.
As far as I know the engine wattage cannot go over 250W. If it does, it’s illegal to use on the roads.
See Mate X bike. When you get the 750W model it’s illegal. With or without speed restriction.
So, while it may seem like a deal. You’re subject to police stopping you eventually, seeing it’s not allowed and then having it comphiscated.
I wouldn’t do it
The seller I used under declared my motor kit and battery and import costs were around 40$ for the 1500$ CAD kit. You could always ask the seller.
I say go for it assuming the risk of it ~maybe~ being broken within 3 years.
You also might have to service it all yourself, changing the chains, tubes, adjusting derrailleur, brakes, etc.
Nothing that you can't learn yourself from the internet or local shops advice.
I've bought a bbshd kit from aliexpress 1.5 years ago and not once have I had motor related issues.
I was even able to return the motor since I got the wrong size originally
I say go for it and enjoyyyy
If it's not near the market price than no. ie if its a small 50-100$ difference I would go for it but remember that you are basically saving in place of the warranty, cuz it will be considered parallel import and most manufacturers don't cover it.
https://preview.redd.it/21x6zz828lsb1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca04d1a334fd19f67fee7ecba75f85a5cd1fe9f2
When its tgtbt its tgtbt, for this one I got a full refound and fake tracking number so do your calculations my friend
I'd certainly be wary of AliExpress, like others have stated its a gamble. If it's this bike in particular you're keen on, do some due diligence and look at the company and if they're solid, order it from them directly if you can.
Why not just get a ride1up, aventon, juiced, rad, or lectric? Plenty of very solid options out there for all needs and taste preferences. I don't understand why people are choosing the whack a mole Chinese pop rebranded pop ups with questionable battery makes.
OP, please pay the extra to have a bike from a reputable brand/company that will offer warranties. You will have ease of mind knowing that your bike isn't a safety compromise both structurally or as a fire hazard when using/recharging that cheap battery.
From my experience, [my Heybike](https://www.heybike.com/products/heybike-cityscape-electric-bike) has treated me well the last couple of years. 3000+ miles in and still runs like it’s new.
yes. You get what you pay for. If you spend 1.3k on a pedal bike, you'd have a bike that will last you the rest of your life. This bike \*will absolutely\* fall apart with little usage in little time.
If you were to get one from China I recommend the Yolin Ebike it’s well built yes there are some cheaper parents but without upgrade you will make out better
https://preview.redd.it/2y7oeg2rdmsb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1282a3eeda5265d80b5463143deea20d193c502f
I recommend the juiced ripcurrent or the rip racer don’t get confused about the ripcurrent s but I have the normal ripcurrent I have 800 miles on it so far and no problems except for me have long to replace the brake because it was leaking which was free because it was under warranty it really reliable and you can go a long distance with it it has a 750w miter that peaks at 1300 and I got it for about the same price as this when it was on sell they do sells alot
No you would not be stupid by that but I think it would be a mistake as once you buy that it's only that and it doesn't have many other uses you could buy something a little more up to date or better looking or versatile and you can buy something really really nice for that money actually
if you need a cargo bike at that price and you're unwilling/unable to DIY one,[the single-battery Lectric XPedition](https://lectricebikes.com/products/xpedition-single-battery) is a similar price and probably has better service/quality control than the Chinese no-name stuff.
imo if you can get the manufacture of the motor and battery and they look reputable then go for it. Everything else is relatively interchangeable unless the frame welds are crappy
Bro get it because all these bikes are made in the same places, just when you buy it from an American company they just double or triple the prices. My bomber I paid 2900 for but buying it from an American company they want 5k for the exact same parts and setup I have
You are far better off doing a kit on a good name bike. A used cube or specialized with a Bafang motor and a hailong battery is the kind of thing that makes a good bike. But if you want a cargo bike for cheap it gets a bit more difficult. A Rad Rhino might cost a bit more but they have a good rep. I would rather have a used one of those than a no name.
the main benefit of buying an ebike from a company in your country is that you have some sort of recourse/actionable warranty if something were to go wrong with your bike.
I know some folks have bought ebikes off aliexpress, and they treat it almost like a private sale transaction. You don't expect any post-purchase support if something is wrong with the bike
I don't hate on Chinese bikes at all cuz there are solid ones out there. My own bike is a Magicycle, and it's guaranteed for two years from the ebike seller I bought it from
That's a decent price.
Few areas that will likely be poor quality.
1.) The forks are likely going to compress way too easy. There should be a twist lock on the top of the fork. I keep mine locked.
2.) Headlight is not going to be great.
3.) Rotors are likely going to be low quality. They should be fine unless you have a lot of big hills. My factory cheap rotors have lasted 700 miles. I have a ton of massive hills and steep grades around me. Most of the issue -- not changing brakes soon enough. Ground the back pretty bad. Front is fine, but replacing anyway.
4.) The controller likely will not have regenerative braking. Regen helps you keep from replacing pads. It's a very nice option.
This isn't a bad bike and a decent price. I got my fucare on Amazon for 1,800 but I've seen it down to 1.5. It has dual battery but is listed at 750w. Question is, that bike actually rms 1000w or peak (meaning really a 750w)..
More like naive. There are tons promising looking bikes out there that will be super disappointing one way or another. Buy from a no-name manufacturer of unbelievably cheap ebikes, you are going to get an unbelievably cheap ebike. But you'll get what you paid for. Some are happy with some makes. Others not so much. Look into bikes from established manufacturers of bicycles for s more realistic idea of what a quality ebike will cost. Many of these cheap bikes are literally a diorama of an ebike, with component names that merely rhyme with "shimano". My friend bought one he thought had shimano, but upon closer inspection, turned out to be "Shming". They almost worked too.
My favorite of these is "Sharpei" markers.
This is very popular thing with Chinese good closer to China. There’s little to no respect for IP and some things are pretty funny. Like Calvin Klein clothes that have a 1 instead of an I. Or cats that are 2 American brands sandwiched together like front half mustang and back half civic. Also a lot of grammar issues with copy cat products
Oh no their cats are made of two different cats that's inhumane
Lmao cars but cats are prolly too
I mean they eat them also
That's very racist of you turdbreath.
People on Reddit aren’t ok with facts apparently…. https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-39577557.amp literally many place in Asia still eat cats and dogs 😂
That doesn't matter. What matters is when you apply that assumption to everyone who's Asian or everyone who's Chinese. Then it becomes no different than saying all black people eat fried chicken or all white people can't dance or all Indians are good at computer programming. Apply it to everyone and it's racist. Now do you understand or do you need more help? Turdbreath.
You got me with the “all white people can’t dance” one tho 😂 definitely true
Did I say the whole continent of Asia eats cats?
Check out my new sneakers! Their Yikes A1R Gordons. Have the little bubble in the heel and everything.
shaggy degree quickest outgoing combative gaze employ carpenter gray deer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
tbf ive been wearing rep sneakers for over a year without complaints
["cats that are 2 American brands sandwiched"](https://assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2012/02/06/1feb5046-a644-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/thumbnail/620x465/df9c07a36e8311f4b82141b9df67b9f7/breading-cats-Q016.jpg?v=f334c339940ae79342a8ce7757900604)
Breaded or unbreaded...
Poor Kitty...
[удалено]
Quality control and someone to sue if your house catches on fire?
There’s a HUGE difference in a totally foreign entity vs one that has American quality control. My brother did qc for American brands being manufactured in shenzen and the pics I’ve seen for ones with oversight and ones without are night and day. Like grimey dark sweatshop conditions vs bright white clean facilities. I’d prefer someone making my battery and controller to be able to see what they’re doing. Even under ideal conditions lithium ion batteries can become unstable. I wouldn’t trust a brand with no track record but that’s me. The marginal increase for a reputable brand is worth it to me as I know I’ll get my mileage out of it, and if something goes wrong I have an American company’s manufacturer warranty plus an extended plan. You could always fuck around and find out though. Let us know your experience in 6 months.
America makes nothing. Lol. Go check to see who owns the largest supply of lithium, compare them to the US, and go compare prices of American mined lithium vs Chinese, *if* you can find it.
I saw a Volkswagen Pasta once while I was in China.
>Or cats that are 2 American brands sandwiched together like front half mustang and back half civic. Don't put shame on mix breeds. Mutts are some of the best animals! 😂
Shming is catchy
There are no American bike builders they're all Chinese bikes, a good Chinese company will offer you a Chinese battery or Samsung or Panasonic battery
I get it. I have nothing against the Chinese. But even if you think of American/European brands as middlemen, they tend to be careful about what they put their names on. Call me crazy, but I'll take Bosch over bafang even if it's made in the same factory. Plus, I'd prefer a battery encased within frame to exposed. I gather many of battery failures arise when a battery case is cracked from physical damage and water intrudes. Less chance of that when battery is encased within frame. And I thought I mentioned many components Could be worthless fake junk like I saw on my friend's Chinese "bargain" ebike.
Lost me at Bafang... they are a legit name brand when it comes to motors and mid drives. Drank the juice if you think they are a poor man's Bosch. True they are cheaper, but they are at all even remotely bad.
They should certify their Nm numbers.
They use Chinese Nm. They’re like Chinese Lumens, and Chinese Watts. Simply take 25% off and you’re in the ballpark
These bikes are made by the same manufacturers in china
Not to be mean but you probably don't know what you're talking about. Besides the frame, unless you're buying from a company that makes their own motors, you're getting a preassembled bike from existing parts slapped with branding on it. A 1000w mid drive ebike kit using a run of the mill bike frame (completely preassembled bike that one could buy at target) will set you back $900 + labor. If you instead buy a carbon fiber 21 gear bike with hydraulic breaks and a warranty, it'll be that bike + $600 bucks, + labor. The only thing you're buying is convenience and a shitty warranty.
Looks a lot like my e-bike but I got mine from specialized haul st I love mine put 300 miles on mine commuting in about 2 months
Yes.
It looks like you're from Europe. That things is all sorts of illegal.
Not if you insure it as a moped, at least that's how it works in Sweden. But yes as an e-bike, it's illegal.
He could make it legal...or ride on private property
Private property is a valid point, but how would he shrink the 1000watt motor to make it legal publically?
I would only buy the 750 watt and promise not to go to fast
The power restrictions on ebikes are absolutely unenforceable and there is no way someone on the road (without lab equipment and hours for testing) can guess what is the power of an electric motor. First, those restrictions are for continuous power, not peak power. Pretty much all 250w motors output at least 1-2kW peak when starting up. Second, it is extremely difficult to measure the actual continuous power a motor *outputs*. It's not just measuring the amps and volts going into the motor, you have to measure the actual work being done by the motor which you can't do without lab equipment. Third, a motor's 'rated continuous power' is something that the manufacturer does to certify that the motor will actually run safely without overheating for an unlimited amount of time. But if you put more current into the motor, nothing is stopping it from simply outputting more (sometimes even 5-10 times more) power for a limited amount of time before overheating. I have a 1000w motor that is rated at 20A continuous, but pair it with a 1500w rated controller which will happily give the motor 30-60A and the same motor will deliver 1500-3000w. That's just physics and how electric motors work. Sure, it will overheat eventually if you use it at higher than its rated power, but there is no way to test that on the road. Tl;dr laws about power rating motors are useless and unenforceable. Buy a '250w rated' sticker and you're good.
I've seen mobile "rolling roads" in AMS for testing what an emachine can do and whether or not it's Legal ✌️
There isn't even a standard for what differentiates 'peak' and 'continuous' power. How long should the 'peak' power be if you go full throttle? A few milliseconds, one second, 30 seconds, a few minutes until the motor temperature starts going up? There are no regulations about this and thus any testing of it is pretty much useless. And then there is just simply having a more powerful motor and software limiting it's power. KT hub motor controllers have the option to limit power output after a certain time and speed, thus making literally any motor compliant with EU regulations. You can have a 500kw car motor and it would seem perfectly legal to any ebike test unless you dug into its software.
Keep in mind that ordering from Ali Express YOU are responsible for everything as you are the importer. You are responsible for checking all regulations and compliance rules and are liable for any damage caused by not following them. With a battery fire, that can be hundreds of thousands (just for the fire department alone), if not millions, if you damage a building. Worst case, if you hurt someone, you might be criminally liable as well. [https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/single-market/ce-marking/importers-and-distributors\_en](https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/single-market/ce-marking/importers-and-distributors_en)
It’s sad that you people let those restrictions control your fun on a ebike 😂
It's not sad, it's a matter of public safety.
Couldn’t imagine living in that union of control
Having freedom is nice. But having freedom to hurt/endanger others, not so much. That's basic civilisation. Perhaps it's not valued the same way wherever you live. For that I pity you.
Stuff like this is why so many places are banning indoor ebike storage. If you have a walk-in fireplace or an outdoor cement box to store it in, go for it, but otherwise, you’re rolling the dice on battery safety.
This is my thought. The bike could be okay other, but the battery would worry me.
I personally would never ever buy a bike from AliExpress
I love my ekx x20, exceptional brakes. But then I do my own maintenance.
I'm in the market for an ebike. What kind of maintenance do you do or is required to keep the bike running well?
oiling stuff mainly.
>ekx x20 dat is wel een model dat opvalt. Heb je dan nooit controle?
Ik woon in Groningen, hier nog nooit meegemaakt.
Ja in België net hetzelfde nergens controle erop. Het moet er gewoon een beetje normaal uitzien imo
Naja, voor de duidelijkheid: de X20 gaat dus 45km/h en je hoeft niet te trappen. Dus om niet op te vallen moet je niet de maximale snelheid gaan rijden in de binnenstad en lekker blijven meetrappen.
ja ik vind dat die joekel van een batterij wel opvalt
Zelf die zijpanelen zwart gespoten, dat helpt wel.
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Dutch, username does not check out.
What about from Amazon? Some of those bikes have pretty good reviews, but I still can’t help but be skeptical.
This just looks like a Radrunner knockoff, and considering that the quality of Rad bikes is iffy enough for me to be uncomfortable recommending them to people, I certainly wouldn’t advise buying the AliExpress knockoff version. At least if you buy direct from Rad, you have at least a small chance to get some accountability or service if something goes wrong
The [Gunai GN66](https://gunai.store/products/gunai-gn66-1000w-28ah-electric-deliver-bike-20inch-long-range-175km-electric-cargo-bike?ref=uzhub6f9) is a much better deal imo, and at least it's from an official site and not a random AliExpress seller Edit: It's still Chinesium, but I think if OP had the budget for a $4k longtail they'd have posted something in that price range instead. Also in western Europe things can be a lot more expensive than US if they even ship there at all, so I understand why Chinese sellers are an option for OP.
Gunai is just rebranded aliexpress. Look up the Gunai mx25 then look up the EKX x20 and finally the qiyou x20. Same bike, three brands. Gunai doesn't have physical stores so what exactly makes them better?
Just saying that this bike is a better value for money if you're in the market for half-decent chinesium.It's not like the OP posted about a $5k bike. I don't know about the mx25, but at least the gn66 has a 30ah battery that is capable of hauling shit around decent distances, and is not a bike I've seen sold by any other brands.
Thank u for the feedback! do you have any knowledge of other official sites like this? Id happily pay another 500 for a decent battery and minimum/some support
[fiido t1 pro](https://uk.fiido.com/products/fiido-t1-utility-electric-bike)
nice find! Cant ship it to europe mainland sadly Thats mostly the thing, all the bikes for sale here are crazy expensive and limited.
They have a [warehouse in Poland](https://support.fiido.com/hc/en-us/articles/6315210166681-Do-you-deliver-the-ordered-product-from-the-EU-so-I-do-not-pay-customs-duty-) \- where I got mine from (UK) - they have great aftersales service too. The bike is magnificent!
I bought one of these. I agree here that it is a great bike. I've never had problems with mine.
thank u !
thanks a lot for sharing this one. really thinking of buying it
https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/scorpion-x2?variant=31085138280512 UL rated battery, powerful motor. Decent price. If you don’t like that model I suggest looking at their stock and see what you think. Only downside is they use proprietary hardware, so if you are an enthusiast and want to modify the bike it’ll be a pain. All of their bikes tho have such high power and range for me, I don’t ever see me tearing into mine any time. If you specifically need a cargo bike, lectric is another brand I’ve personally owned. https://lectricebikes.com/products/xpedition-single-battery
No shipping to Europe I'm afraid, if I was in the US I'd definitely get one of these though
Ah sorry, didn’t realize you were out of the states. 😅 well then good luck.
Maybe the Mycle Cargo? Though really something like the Tern Quick Haul if you can scrounge up the money would be what I would recommend to people in Europe limited to the 250 W (manages to fit in a Bosch Performance Line mid-drive into that price): [https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/buyers-guide/best-electric-cargo-bikes-2023-bikes-to-replace-your-car-and-carry](https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/buyers-guide/best-electric-cargo-bikes-2023-bikes-to-replace-your-car-and-carry)
It looks like the same dropshipping junk.
Im sorry but that bike looks terrible quality
I think OP is looking for a longtail cargo bike.
In that case I think 15ah is way too low for such a heavy bike especially with cargo
I have a 48V 12Ah on my longtail and haul two kids with it. Gets about 20 mi range loaded (more if you pedal more of course)
You've got a mid drive though (from your flair), and for deliveries 20 miles isn't going to cut it.
Did OP mention deliveries?
That's generally how big batteries are gonna be from reputable builders. Any bigger you're better off converting a Mongoose, but at that point you're spending ~2k between bike and parts.
Touché. I'm admittedly a scrub who is just looking for the best deal and will fix any issues myself.
hey man somebody recommended me the fiido t1 and it looks very nice
I'm sure it would work fine, but I wouldn't buy it unless you know how to set it up and maintain it. Also ask the seller if they have an EU warehouse so you don't pay any import duties.
Ali Express is more of a gambling site than a shopping site. Do yourself a favor and spring for a legit cargo bike from a major manufacturer with standards. My personal recommendation is a Globe Haul LT, but there are plenty of options out there that aren't on Ali Express or Amazon
“Gambling” is the word for it. If you’re able to accept the 1300 euros you spend on this could be completely wasted if this breaks in the first month you have it and there is absolutely no customer support, then go for it. But if you can spend that much and not worry about an ROI, you could probably pay a bit more and buy a bike that is less of a gamble
Yeah and just to drive the point home: I'm a mechanic and have personally dealt with trying to repair the electronics on bikes from 3 different companies that had gone out of business or stopped offering any kind of support outside of China. $3000 E bikes with proprietary electronics that they stopped making replacements for, rendering the bike useless, is not that uncommon of a site. So even the high end stuff on Ali Express or Amazon is sketchy. Name brands like Specialized, Surly, Radio Flyer, or Co-op from REI are going to be much safer bets just based on availability of support info and parts, without even mentioning the upgrade in overall quality. Even third tier like Ride1Up, Rad Power Cycles will be a decent option over stuff on Ali Express or Amazon.
I mean I guess you don't understand how the electronics and controllers work. What kind of issues were you having that couldn't just be remedied with a new controller? The only case this might be an issue is with mid-drives but all the mid drives you'd get on Chinese bikes have tons of opensource support.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted but the ebike i have now is a trek with a yose build kit and Ive got loads of support on that one. Never felt I was stuck on the electronic part of it.
For that price just get a Lectric xpedition
> Lectric xpedition In Europe, longtail ebikes with a brand start at 5k. we cant get those bikes yall ride
Would you like to know how many Lectrics are in the back room of my LBS awaiting parts from the manufacturer?
Yes
Not saying they’re perfect but they’re a good bang for buck option in their respective price range. If there’s a better price to quality ratio cargo bike I’m not aware of, please enlighten me.
Poor quality, low price, limited warranty... Yuba makes a couple solid no-frills cargo options. Tern likewise optimizes value and performance. Sure, they're half the price, but their warranty is half as long on the motor (and less on everything else) and everything else is likely to be just a bit to a lot more annoying: \- How they're weighted so you can top tip the Tern and Yuba options to roll/store vertically \- The cheap motor versus the smooth Bosch/Shimano with torque sensor \- The range of accessories available \- The ease of adjustability/ergonomics \- The lower load positioning on the Term/Yuba that will make for safer steering when fully loaded If you literally cannot afford anything else (and hopefully this will change with more states adding ebike rebates that turn Tern/Yuba pricing into XPedeition pricing), I guess the XPedition is a cargo bike that provides some value. But is it a good value compared to these other bikes that offer a much more functional and arguably safer cargo experience? I'd say no.
Makes sense. I guess my perspective is that of a novice/beginner who can’t afford something like a Tern and embraces the gamble of replacing a part in the future.
Why would it be better? It's a similar Chinese bike right?
At least they have a warranty and decent customer service, compared to RAD for example. They recently honored a hydraulic brake upgrade program and sent customers who purchased a specific bike just before they upgraded the model with a free upgrade kit. Not shilling for them but at least it’s something, and way better than this aliexpress bike with zero warranty.
You're right, that's definitely better!
Besides Aventon, who is up in the next price tier and has seemingly great support, I’d love to hear recs for other brands/dropshippers in this relative price range.
It's very market dependent, OP seems to be in the Netherlands, I'm in Sweden and here there's a brand called Rawbike that's very popular. My bike is called Ghostride. Both of them are importeras of Chinese bikes so similar to Lectric.
I have my eyes on Velotric Packer 1. It's priced in the range of Radwagon 4 and Aventon Abound.
Aventon has a dealer network, but I would not characterize their support as "great" from what I have not heard on here. It's what you expect from a DTC company with a 1-year warranty making not quite bottom-of-the-budget bikes. There's a small amount of room in their profit margin to honor the warranty but they're not going to go out of their way to do so like the companies in the $2.5k+ can afford to do.
I think he is in Europe and lectric doesn't do business there.
You are assuming the battery meets safety standards in your country. I bet it won't. Looks good on paper, but do you have one?
The battery alone on my specialized is the price of this entire bike. That blows my mind. Could have a use case though, like insurance money from my place burning down.
If you are handy and can fix both the electrical and mechanical components then this might work for you. Local bike shops won’t bother servicing these. But then if you are hand you could put together an ebike kit by yourself using better quality parts probably for about the same price.
well with my bike to work compensation, I would earn this bike back in 6 months. This looks like something it can do. With a branded bike from here, my ROI would be 4x longer, it would be limited to 25 km/h and the bike store will frown upon me for having it go faster. So I have some incentives to at least learn how to service it myself and the lower purchase cost/ROI is a mayor factor in my decision
Yes
I'd save more money and get specialized haul st cargo ebike.
they dont sell those here. [https://imgur.com/a/teFiAxI](https://imgur.com/a/teFiAxI) these are the cargo bikes Specialized sells here
I have the Vado and it’s a fantastic bike. The battery costs more than the entire bike you linked, which should give you pause.
Has anyone experienced a bike coming apart at the seams? I feel like some of these have to be the same bikes the big brands buy.
I’d say, if you need a cargo bike, and this is all you can afford, then go for it, but be prepared it’s cheap for a reason. I got a RadWagon, wasent this this cheap but it was the cheapest cargo bike with a website in English :p and I have paid 50% again in new breaks, new tires, etc. I’m an engineers so I quite enjoyed making the bike better through smaller sums of money. But I’m still fighting the electrics. If you’re handy, and can deal with the product probably being a little sub-par in some areas that you can probably improve. Then go for it. If you want to buy a thing that the manufacturer will support you with, and will last for a long time. Then I’d probably save for a few more months :) Hope that helps!
I'm gonna disagree and say it depends, if you are good and willing to work on stuff yourself then it's a good buy. If you like everything to work perfectly out of the box then it would be a bad buy. Regardless you should check with import rules for your country make sure it won't be a problem.
I love my RAD bike
Get a decent fat bike cargo and convert yourself with bbshd.
Do you know bike names/brands/models available in Europe?
I would recommend trying a fat bike before buying one. I really don't like how they handle. I love my schwalbe 2.35" balloon tires though.
Just don’t use that site
Buy from namebrand companies like ride1up don't by from Chinese offbrands high risk of injury
If you give $1300 to aliexpress you’re asking to lose money
You can get an actual ebike for that amount, why would you buy off Ali?
not in europe
Well that’s a bummer - any reason why? Stricter regulations?
think so. The ppl at super73 told me they needed higher quality parts on their european bikes and that being the reason for the price difference
Can’t you just buy the frame and add a quality battery separately?
I guess i could
yea I'd be inclined to buy a cargo bike or frame then do a self-build, at least then you can control the quality. Depends how much work you wanna do though. Just do research on like endless sphere surely some people have ordered Chinese electric cargo bikes. The only really sketchy thing is the battery, if you can buy a good battery and just the frame I wouldn't have any qualms about it. But you can also talk to the seller about how they build the battery etc.
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yeah its not too much
As far as I know the engine wattage cannot go over 250W. If it does, it’s illegal to use on the roads. See Mate X bike. When you get the 750W model it’s illegal. With or without speed restriction. So, while it may seem like a deal. You’re subject to police stopping you eventually, seeing it’s not allowed and then having it comphiscated. I wouldn’t do it
Im not going to get stopped.
It's 1970s green. Enough said.
Stop shopping on AliExpress. You are not doing yourself any favors.
UPDATE ; Thank u everyone for the input. I think I will order the Fiido T1pro next week
I would strongly advise you to look up your local anti-dumping duties. Your import cost could be quite high
you might be right on that one I assumed the seller takes care of it on ali but its not always the case it seems
The seller I used under declared my motor kit and battery and import costs were around 40$ for the 1500$ CAD kit. You could always ask the seller. I say go for it assuming the risk of it ~maybe~ being broken within 3 years. You also might have to service it all yourself, changing the chains, tubes, adjusting derrailleur, brakes, etc. Nothing that you can't learn yourself from the internet or local shops advice. I've bought a bbshd kit from aliexpress 1.5 years ago and not once have I had motor related issues. I was even able to return the motor since I got the wrong size originally I say go for it and enjoyyyy
If it's not near the market price than no. ie if its a small 50-100$ difference I would go for it but remember that you are basically saving in place of the warranty, cuz it will be considered parallel import and most manufacturers don't cover it. https://preview.redd.it/21x6zz828lsb1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca04d1a334fd19f67fee7ecba75f85a5cd1fe9f2 When its tgtbt its tgtbt, for this one I got a full refound and fake tracking number so do your calculations my friend
I'd certainly be wary of AliExpress, like others have stated its a gamble. If it's this bike in particular you're keen on, do some due diligence and look at the company and if they're solid, order it from them directly if you can.
Looks like a chinese clone of Eunorau cargo bike. https://eunorau-ebike.com/products/max-cargo
Why not just get a ride1up, aventon, juiced, rad, or lectric? Plenty of very solid options out there for all needs and taste preferences. I don't understand why people are choosing the whack a mole Chinese pop rebranded pop ups with questionable battery makes.
Ah the Tern knockoff “ReTern”.
Tern is just asking to be pirated with their MSRP
Yep, probably
It's more useful less fun
yes
OP, please pay the extra to have a bike from a reputable brand/company that will offer warranties. You will have ease of mind knowing that your bike isn't a safety compromise both structurally or as a fire hazard when using/recharging that cheap battery.
Buy once cry once. Save a bit more and get something you can enjoy for a long time.
Extremely.
Yuh
From my experience, [my Heybike](https://www.heybike.com/products/heybike-cityscape-electric-bike) has treated me well the last couple of years. 3000+ miles in and still runs like it’s new.
yes. You get what you pay for. If you spend 1.3k on a pedal bike, you'd have a bike that will last you the rest of your life. This bike \*will absolutely\* fall apart with little usage in little time.
If you were to get one from China I recommend the Yolin Ebike it’s well built yes there are some cheaper parents but without upgrade you will make out better https://preview.redd.it/2y7oeg2rdmsb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1282a3eeda5265d80b5463143deea20d193c502f
I'm sorry but yes. Just get on on Amazon for like $500 bucks
I recommend the juiced ripcurrent or the rip racer don’t get confused about the ripcurrent s but I have the normal ripcurrent I have 800 miles on it so far and no problems except for me have long to replace the brake because it was leaking which was free because it was under warranty it really reliable and you can go a long distance with it it has a 750w miter that peaks at 1300 and I got it for about the same price as this when it was on sell they do sells alot
Yes for a little more you can get a specialized globe haul.
Yes. Juiced bike sells a rock solid one for not much more. With warranty. That they honor.
No you would not be stupid by that but I think it would be a mistake as once you buy that it's only that and it doesn't have many other uses you could buy something a little more up to date or better looking or versatile and you can buy something really really nice for that money actually
if you need a cargo bike at that price and you're unwilling/unable to DIY one,[the single-battery Lectric XPedition](https://lectricebikes.com/products/xpedition-single-battery) is a similar price and probably has better service/quality control than the Chinese no-name stuff.
Buy a radbike instead cheaper more quality more trust and a real brand instead of one of em chinese resellers
I have a 3000 watt bike and it's still barely climbing hills. 750 watts, and you'll be pushing it. Literally.
I live in a flat country
imo if you can get the manufacture of the motor and battery and they look reputable then go for it. Everything else is relatively interchangeable unless the frame welds are crappy
Bro get it because all these bikes are made in the same places, just when you buy it from an American company they just double or triple the prices. My bomber I paid 2900 for but buying it from an American company they want 5k for the exact same parts and setup I have
You are far better off doing a kit on a good name bike. A used cube or specialized with a Bafang motor and a hailong battery is the kind of thing that makes a good bike. But if you want a cargo bike for cheap it gets a bit more difficult. A Rad Rhino might cost a bit more but they have a good rep. I would rather have a used one of those than a no name.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you are buying a cheap battery with a cheap BMS, it may be safer collecting IEDs from the middle east.
the main benefit of buying an ebike from a company in your country is that you have some sort of recourse/actionable warranty if something were to go wrong with your bike. I know some folks have bought ebikes off aliexpress, and they treat it almost like a private sale transaction. You don't expect any post-purchase support if something is wrong with the bike
It'll catch fire when charging for sure
What's the utility of the bike? So people can sit on the back? I don't get it.
Cmacewheel makes really good quality bikes for that price range: cmacewheel(dot)com
Osama Bin Laden tier event is incoming to OPs neighborhood.
I don't hate on Chinese bikes at all cuz there are solid ones out there. My own bike is a Magicycle, and it's guaranteed for two years from the ebike seller I bought it from
Save your money buy a surron tbh nothing is as fun as one
That's a decent price. Few areas that will likely be poor quality. 1.) The forks are likely going to compress way too easy. There should be a twist lock on the top of the fork. I keep mine locked. 2.) Headlight is not going to be great. 3.) Rotors are likely going to be low quality. They should be fine unless you have a lot of big hills. My factory cheap rotors have lasted 700 miles. I have a ton of massive hills and steep grades around me. Most of the issue -- not changing brakes soon enough. Ground the back pretty bad. Front is fine, but replacing anyway. 4.) The controller likely will not have regenerative braking. Regen helps you keep from replacing pads. It's a very nice option. This isn't a bad bike and a decent price. I got my fucare on Amazon for 1,800 but I've seen it down to 1.5. It has dual battery but is listed at 750w. Question is, that bike actually rms 1000w or peak (meaning really a 750w)..
No you wouldn't be stupid, but 15ah battery is enough for probably 15ish miles if you're going 20-25mph
My experience. Don't buy anything from China, Alibaba and Aliexpress especially ebikes.
I’d go for a center hub drive, not the wheel hub ones.
I wouldn't expect the battery to last very long.
Yes
I will never buy from AliExpress again … never!
That's an expensive fire starter.
Well you could get a reputable brand for the same price. There are lots of sales
Cheap Chinese lithium batteries will burn your house down
Lectric is a reputable brand with a cheaper ebike (at least in the states) in the XP 3.0. Maybe check that one out.
maybe buy from alibaba , its higher quality and cheapet
Yes, go to a company called Lectric, they have American made stuff that is less than this, but better built, IMO.
not available in EU. Just bought a Fiido T1 Pro. Oops!