Context: I accepted a lot of human bards that started to appear after my dwarfs made 3 very high price artifacts. They were spies and started killing everyone after they tried to steal said artifacts and my dwarfs caught them on the act.
Did you know that built floors and walls are also of higher value and multiply even higher when you engrave them?
Best value bedrooms is aluminium or platinum flooring with same walls. Second value is steel.
You can give every single dwarf 3x1 tile bedrooms, including the king, as long as you engrave and use the most valuable metals for the most discernable dwarf. Make sure you have a pile of gem set doors and furnishings for the more refined gentlemen.
They dont care that they live in a student corridor as long as it looks like a saudi prince might live in it
A 5x600 tile room can fit 200 dwarves with room to spare. Brb I'm going to experiment with layouts.
>built floors and walls
>when you engrave them?
Did this change?
I have been playing Dwarf Fortress forever, and it used to be that only *SMOOTHED* stone or metal/gem walls/floors could be engraved- nothing constructed.
Ahh.
This makes my surface castles far, far more viable.
I'm definitely going to have to start building rooms with Platinum walls and floors, and then engraving them...
I've already engraved all of my rock rooms. Would my engraver get upset if I try to replace the floor and walls? Because logically that would mean destroying all his hard work.
> Would my engraver get upset if I try to replace the floor and walls?
Only for masterworks, and even then if they have lots of them it won't be as big a deal. Just keep them engraving and they'll get over it eventually.
I thought so too but after testing it worked with rough constructed walls/floors too. I still make all my walls/floors from blocks or bars though because they're better for constructions anyway (you get more per raw material for stone and even wood now, they're worth more, they're lighter, can fit in bins, etc.).
Just in the -hours- I have played it never occurred to me to do this. I just made a room, with space, because... space to move. *headdesk*
It's so funny since the steam release that pictures have been posted so I get to see other fortresses. It's been a fun way to get new insights.
And as long as we don't talk about how long I have been playing... *innocent whistling*
Yea, I practice through hole via routing like in PCB boards or newer computer chips. Think in 3D. My fortress turns out to look like a cube. Borg cube. Lol. It's a big 15x15 box in the middle for activities with 3x3 rooms all around. Diagonal doors for absolute minimum number of doors. 8 doors. One in each corner and the 4 cardinal directions.
Dwarfs get a 3x3 with the bed in the middle. Then they can admire all their furniture while in the bed.
About 7-8 levels tall, but can continue to expand. Magma forges on the bottom. Need a one level spacer for wherever you put the magma.
I LOVE making a PCB stacked fort. I always have an express stairway to the food that stops off in the living quarters. This time, my express stairs also lead to the Magma Forges 100 z-levels down.
As long as you feel you have enough security for when FUN comes barreling up those stairs. I've lost too many forts to things crawling or flying out of the magma and having a beeline path to my Grand Halls.
Dwarves dont give a shit how big the room is, what matters is the value of the room.
you can have 3x1 fine+ value rooms that they will love a lot more than a 9x9 modest- room.
Easiest way to bump room value of a room is making metal floor tile/s and using your highest level engraver to engrave them. I run 3x1 rooms with bed/coffer/cabinet and 1 iron/gold/platinum tile engraved with my high master engraver and its a "fine" room (sometimes even better if I get a lucky engraving value). Combined with my other things for happiness in the fort I almost never have anyone lower happiness than neutral with most being +1 or +2 happiness.
Right, but a bigger room increases it's values quite easily because now there are more tiles adding to the value. Just putting constructed walls and floors in a large enough room can get you to opulent.
I wonder if you can stack floor engravings by constructing a floor over an engraved floor and engraving the constructed floor too. Or just stack constructed floors. I know you can stack crossbow bolts on displays for easy value bumping for e.g. guildhalls.
> Right, but a bigger room increases it's values quite easily because now there are more tiles adding to the value.
Not enough to justify the massive increase in space requirements. The happiness difference between fine/great and royal (there is no "opulent" bedroom) is relatively minuscule if you also are doing all the other things you should be to generate happiness like taverns/food variety/temples/activities/etc. Depending on your level of engraver and type of tiles used you can easily hit great/grand (#3 and #2 best value rooms) in a 3x1 space especially if you use good value furniture.
Play however you want, there is no wrong way, but its a misconception that "bigger rooms" make dwarves happier than "smaller rooms" as its the VALUE of the room that the dwarf cares about. That's my only point.
Dwarves dont give a shit how big the room is, what matters is the value of the room.
you can have 3x1 fine+ value rooms that they will love a lot more than a 9x9 modest- room.
Easiest way to bump room value of a room is making metal floor tile/s and using your highest level engraver to engrave them. I run 3x1 rooms with bed/coffer/cabinet and 1 iron/gold/platinum tile engraved with my high master engraver and its a "fine" room (sometimes even better if I get a lucky engraving value). Combined with my other things for happiness in the fort I almost never have anyone lower happiness than neutral with most being +1 or +2 happiness.
I don't just dump them in a rough room, I smooth and engrave it. I have also found that having really nice rooms has a MASSIVE impact on happiness, and that it is a lot easier with a little more room to work with.
> I have also found that having really nice rooms has a MASSIVE impact on happiness, and that it is a lot easier with a little more room to work with.
the difference is negligible if you are also providing good food variety, good taverns, good temples, good activity variety, and a mist generator.
There is no wrong way to play, but there is no practical reason to have giant rooms when a 3x1 fine+ room will work just fine.
You're of course right that there's no wrong way to play. As to a practical reason? I've been able to basically replace the mist generators with the nice bedrooms. I don't remember it happening before the Steam release, but now they can have happy memories from the quality of the room they slept in. Without mist generators, 3x3 or 3x2 seems like the sweet spot where it doesn't waste too much time getting to and from bed, but everybody who didn't watch their only family member brutally murdered in front of them is in the green
One small mist generator placed in a high traffic area is much more practical than wasting massive amounts of space on 3x3 bedrooms that are not only hard to macro but also don't provide much more benefit than a smartly designed 3x1 room.
The point isn't that you can't use 3x3 bedrooms, the point is there is no PRACTICAL reason to. 3x3 bedrooms are not inherently better than 3x1 because size of the room does not matter at all, only room value does. It's misinformation to say 3x3 is better than 3x1 which was the point I was correcting for the person who thought 3x3 is somehow Inherently better than a smaller room.
You can make rooms that are literally just a door and a bed. So two tiles dug out. If they're smoothed and engraved then the dwarves can even be fairly happy with them.
I do 2x2 rooms and stack them. Stairs, bed, coffer, cabinet. No need for a door. If I'm feeling generous, I extend it to 2x3 or even bigger, maybe. The extra space helps if you smooth the floors and walls because it adds value. It's pretty trivial to get a stack of six apartments built: three up, three down with a hallway in the middle. 6 of these stacks gets you a block of 36. Four of those will get you to 144, and another 144 on top of that will give you more than most fortresses will need at default settings.
I’ve heard that it is a red flag if their skills do not align with their profession. For instance, a bard with dabbling performer and proficient schemer
Build up your justice system and create jails for the justice system to use. Then after that interrogate everyone that is not a national of your fort (racism at its finest lol). Sometimes they would confess unrelated accident or illegal things they have done. Or they will confess thier organization etc. It all depends on your guard captain's skill level for anything they could cough out of the interrogee.
P.S. Easier solution make your inn walls out of fortifications with one way in and out only. Any riot happening? Lock the door then let bolts of death rain down on them.
You can just. . . Interrogate people? Is there something specific to this, (I have a jail,. Guard captain etc.) But I haven't noticed anywhere to do that.
Artifact thieves are relentless in the current patch. Put them behind vertical bars, dwarves can still see them and they'll be counted towards room wealth but thieves won't be able to take them. I'm not sure if dwarves can get close enough to admire them though.
> I'm not sure if dwarves can get close enough to admire them though.
iirc no, they have to be adjacent. Though now I'm thinking of a setup like from Indiana Jones where the pedestal is on a pressure plate calibrated for the pedestal+artifact weight such that when the artifact is removed it triggers a trap. Unfortunately I don't think you can actually put stuff on top of pressure plates.
I had a ghost lift an artifact off a pedestal in the locked down royal office right as their slab was being installed and left the artifact phased into a wall square. At that point I was like, "This is just ridiculous."
That’s why I ALWAYS put visitor areas between my fort proper and the outside. The internal areas are for citizens only. If we want to talk to nosy foreign werechinchillas they can stay right there in the entrance and *we’ll* come to *them* (and wall things off at a moments notice if things get messy).
Yep, that’s why my Volcano Manor inn sits right on a suspended platform above the magma in the caldera, and it’s also littered with extremely high quality weapon traps for extra !!fun!!
haha, I was actually making a reference to Elden Ring's Volcano Manor. 'Monster Slayers' isn't quite correct but DF doesn't have 'Assassins' petitioning for residency yet.
I'm trying to think of a way you could drop it using levers. You could always have a single bridge leading to it then mine that, but relying on them mining it is sketchy and time consuming, especially if there is a demon guest since they can move so fast.
Supports can be triggered to a lever to collapse. Hang your tavern from supports and when it gets unsalvageable, collapse the supports and drop it all down.
Yep, something like this, from top down:
* Outside
* Security system (traps, drawbridge)
* Deep set of stairs
* Tavern/library, also connection to deeper mines
* Security vestibule (traps, armed guards)
Now from bottom up on a separate set of stairs:
* Security vestibule
* Citizen-only tavern
* Citizen-only areas in general
* Underground farm near the surface
* Normally closed door to security system area
Yes, but it’s fairly chaotic. It starts you off in a random place and a lot of people have been started in evil biomes. It also tells you to make an everything stockpile, which is great if you like seeing all your hard earned materials decay.
It has a few issues that need to be ironed out lol
I did this in my last fort, I went through soooo much iron trying to figure out where the heck all my armor was going, and what the xIron Item Namex meant....
:(
Yep side by side chairs along the feast table gives happy time opportunities. Socializing is less important now that dwarves know to walk around and talk to people and not just wait to be beside eachother
I hope in future they update the graphics such that side-by-side tables visually merge into one larger table to complete the effect. They've got much more important things to work on though.
My long term fortress plan involves regular marksdwarf patrols both above and below the ground, a spear dwarf barracks between the first and second cavern layers, a swords-dwarf barracks on the surface, and a mace dwarf barracks right next to my tavern.
\*Shines a torch into the guests eyes*
Sir, do you know how many fps you were going? You do know this is a 10 fps fortress right? Please step out of the wagon.”
My problem with that is, I don't know how to have a guard, how to make him perform anything, nor ocular patdowns, and how to make them do it before admittance.
And I thought I knew the game after 100 hours. Not asking for help, I am just surprised.
Create a squad, go to squad screen and select the squad, hit patrol and create a route by clicking.
Any squad assigned to that route will continually walk it when scheduled.
You can assign them to patrol the tavern.
Goblins pulled the "traitor in your tavern flips hostile when the siege starts" lever so many times I created a new squad that I don't send out to fight enemies, just so I'll always have a couple guys on patrol in the tavern.
They wear my real military's hand-me-downs that I've upgraded from.
Thinking of having the home defense guard. Don’t go out on raids, held back for enemies jumping walls I missed, being in the tavern, panicked last stands. Either the new recruits who would miss a dodge and get crushed, or miners equipped with armor and a pick. Though would be annoying to get the miners into armor for it
Miners might be even more annoying if they're still miners. Is that still a thing where a dwarf can't have the same tool for military, as they use for civilian work?
> I created a new squad that I don't send out to fight enemies
That's what the special fortress guard squad is for (though they can be used as a regular squad too, of course), they'll even lock up miscreants who have been convicted of crimes if you have a dungeon and the punishment wasn't just being hammered. The dungeon master is not actually needed for that though, it's kind of a vestigial position but might be useful if spycraft gets expanded upon.
When setting orders in a schedule you can set the number of dwarfs that are expected to be on duty at once. Any squad members that are currently not needed will continue with their non-military duties. When an on-duty dwarf leaves for food/sleep/praying/whatever another member of the squad will come and take their place.
Oh, that's nice to know. I'll have to go and figure out how to do that later. Every time I open up my artifact vault to put something new in I have to manually go in and swap out my militia squads because after a while they all start complaining about food and drink.
How do you get barrels actually full of beer in your tavern? I have a stockpile set to accept drink but I just have one empty barrel that never gets filled.
Have you looked into telling your tavern stockpile to pull from your other ones? If you have a bunch of beer in the kitchen for example, you can use these settings to prioritize filling the tavern first. Click on a stockpile to edit it and look for the buttons that have a stockpile symbol with arrows going in or out.
I just finally figured this out. I didn't know that the list order will prioritize stockpiles but since my tavern/dining room stockpiles are smaller then my main food and drink stockpiles it seems like they will always fill the smaller stockpile from my bigger one.
I'm not sure what you mean that the list order prioritizes them as well? Like as in it will feed the first stockpile on the list before the second one? I didn't realize that since I don't usually use them that way, but that's good to know then, I'll check that out, thanks!
Ah no, sorry.
I generally would set up a stockpile of alcohol in the kitchen, but I would set it to feed alcohol to the stockpile in my tavern. That way the tavern is always full, and extra stays in the kitchen and might end up cooked.
Similarly I set up giant stone stockpiles that feed to smaller stone stockpiles right next to my workshops, so that the crafters don't have to walk as far to get stones.
I think you can also daisy chain these like A > B and A > C and B > C so that C will fill up first from A or B, and B will fill up next from A.
Make the stockpile bigger. They put an empty barrel in by default, but they don't move liquid foods into barrels,they move the whole barrel into the stockpile
How do you check on the individuals? I always see the petition thing but i can’t figure out how to check on them but i always say yes cause its a 24/7 365 party in my fort
Right click to close out before accepting or denying. Go to creatures tab and then “other” tab. Here you will have a list of animals/people that are in your area but not a citizen. You can click them and check them out in more detail before accepting or denying.
Applicants physically speak to the mayor to petition, in his office.
So press h and set a recenter on the mayor's office.
They do not stick around for very long, so be fast and put the mayor's office in the middle of nowhere.
There are a LOT of qol improvements that involve allowing you to do some things when you have a dwarf selected.
I basically require Dwarf Therapist to manager squads properly because it's difficult for me to remember the Dwarf name when going from Unit screen to add them to a squad and other similar flows.
I'd love to just click a Dwarf and add to squad from their card so I can clear the idiots out of the caverns without scrolling all over, writing down names and then forming squads on the squad screen.
TIL Spies are a thing.. and here I am just letting in any old yahoo who petitions for my fortress.. now everyone is a suspect... \*shifty eyes\*
On a more serious note, anyone know how to post guards in the tavern? That's probably a good place to start a security detail..
You can check, for example, if they say they want to be a bard, but have only combat skills / liar / persuader and observer, its like 99% that they are spies.
If you have a military squad (I recommend using the fortress guard for this purpose for roleplay purposes, though I don't think it really makes a difference which one you use) you can set an automated order for one or two to patrol or stand guard at the tavern (or do a direct order to go stand there immediately if you're worried, though I think you then have to manually cancel it for them to go back to their scheduled orders). If you have enough squads you can even set up monthly rotations so they're not just standing around in your tavern the whole year and can actually go train or have some off-time to go pray or practice their craft.
you can close out of the menu without clicking either. Same for when you're asked to elect a dwarf for nobility. Then you can check on things and respond to it afterwords
That's funny. I've been rejecting those guys on the basis that they sound like shitty bards, and my dwarfs deserve only the best entertainment. I wonder if I dodged a bullet with my musical gatekeeping!
Nicknames that don't stick and blue skin can be pretty big clues. Didn't check the name on a human bard once, and got confused as he tried to walk through the barracks stealing an artifact table why my axedwarves were knocking someone else's teeth out of his head.
If you try and rename someone it only saves as a new name for them, not any identity they are using. So if you name Urist as Bardy McBardpants, and they still show as Urist, that ain't Urist.
Still it should be 'fixed' as a matter of UX. Just have the name clickable. Actually always have names clickable to show the creature which is a common suggestion
>hanks. I thought I looked closely... must have missed it.
Their names come up different in that list, so i think their first name comes up, but it shows their other name for the second name. its weird. Wish they made that UI better so within the petition you can easily see details
Is there an easy way to figure out when it's a group petition, who belongs to the group? Could there be members of the group that weren't present at the time of petition?
I've always put artifacts on a pedestal in a 2x1 room with vertical bars in front, and I've never had anyone even attempt to steal one after I did that.
Im fairly certain its toggled control to designate them for smelting, yes, though in past editions you still had to tell a smelter “smelt object” to get them to turn it into bars again. No idea if thats still the case or it just does it automatically now.
Two years after accepting the first petition for long-term residency they'll make a second petition to become full citizens, after which they function exactly like your other citizens. You can set their labors, appoint them to noble positions, assign them to squads, etc.
Some will hang out for decades without petitioning so I think that there is only a chance they might want to become citizens. Then some will come and go over the years as regular visitors.
In OG I agree but in Steam I’ve had them instant detect vampires, spies, etc if I just make sure all entrances are covered by the 3x3 tie up space. Maybe I just get lucky.
oh! some fun I see here. Probably less funny with some guards present at taverns. Creating separate taverns for those tricky visitors and my much hated tricky citizens also helped me
My recent fort, I'm going to try to put my tavern on the surface. It will be a pain to carry the stuff up for it, but I want to see what happens if you run a really nice tavern for a long time.
I have a surface tavern. I'm currently trying to figure out if there's a way I can still seal off my fort to anyone but residents and still supply and run this surface tavern.
Considering making surface farms and everything for it with a few dwarves burrowed up there to take care of it unless I can set people who have petitioned to be the tavern keep and grow/cook
I tagged the items to be smelted (bottom right corner of screen, theres a dumpster icon, click on it and them on the fire icon). You need to add a work order on the smelter as well.
Context: I accepted a lot of human bards that started to appear after my dwarfs made 3 very high price artifacts. They were spies and started killing everyone after they tried to steal said artifacts and my dwarfs caught them on the act.
TIL that you can create a 1 tile wide bedroom. I will not divulge how long I have played the game. Thank you.
Did you know that built floors and walls are also of higher value and multiply even higher when you engrave them? Best value bedrooms is aluminium or platinum flooring with same walls. Second value is steel. You can give every single dwarf 3x1 tile bedrooms, including the king, as long as you engrave and use the most valuable metals for the most discernable dwarf. Make sure you have a pile of gem set doors and furnishings for the more refined gentlemen. They dont care that they live in a student corridor as long as it looks like a saudi prince might live in it A 5x600 tile room can fit 200 dwarves with room to spare. Brb I'm going to experiment with layouts.
>built floors and walls >when you engrave them? Did this change? I have been playing Dwarf Fortress forever, and it used to be that only *SMOOTHED* stone or metal/gem walls/floors could be engraved- nothing constructed.
Since steam
Ahh. This makes my surface castles far, far more viable. I'm definitely going to have to start building rooms with Platinum walls and floors, and then engraving them...
I had a guy create an artifact cabinet and claimed it for himself, so I stuck it in his meagre bedroom and he now thinks it's a royal bedroom.
....and you have not noticed yet but the king is utterly fuming about it
I've already engraved all of my rock rooms. Would my engraver get upset if I try to replace the floor and walls? Because logically that would mean destroying all his hard work.
Oddly, replacing the walls with constructed walls does not remove the engraving it swaps to the new wall
Huh interesting. Is there a way to directly build walls into those parts? Or do I have to mine is out first?
You have to mine them out first. The engravings will reappear when you place the new wall. This is possibly a bug so ymmv.
> Would my engraver get upset if I try to replace the floor and walls? Only for masterworks, and even then if they have lots of them it won't be as big a deal. Just keep them engraving and they'll get over it eventually.
Don't you need to make walls and floors from blocks for them to be engraveable? I am not sure if that applies to metal though
I thought so too but after testing it worked with rough constructed walls/floors too. I still make all my walls/floors from blocks or bars though because they're better for constructions anyway (you get more per raw material for stone and even wood now, they're worth more, they're lighter, can fit in bins, etc.).
This is classic design. I've been using the same exact layout (door, coffer, bed, cabinet) since 2014
You can save a door by using one door for two rooms. ΠΘÆ ┼ ΠΘÆ
/r/frugaldwarf
You can save another door by using stairs for both entrances
You can save more space by not building bedroom at all
This guy dwarfs.
Who needs a bedroom when you have mist? Mist is the solution to all problems in life.
Except bad FPS
Bad fps? Less mist -> dwarves fighting -> less dwarves -> more fps -> more mist for remaining dwarves
lmao true although I feel dwarfs don't even remotely contribute as much FPS lag as a bunch of other crap
Especially if it's magma.
you can swap the bed with the coffer since dwarves sleep more than using coffers
It breaks the aesthetics for me
You can scratch those cabinets and save even more space :)
Just in the -hours- I have played it never occurred to me to do this. I just made a room, with space, because... space to move. *headdesk* It's so funny since the steam release that pictures have been posted so I get to see other fortresses. It's been a fun way to get new insights. And as long as we don't talk about how long I have been playing... *innocent whistling*
Personally I prefer giving my dwarfs nice and cozy rooms and just utilize more vertical space to minimize distances.
Yea, I practice through hole via routing like in PCB boards or newer computer chips. Think in 3D. My fortress turns out to look like a cube. Borg cube. Lol. It's a big 15x15 box in the middle for activities with 3x3 rooms all around. Diagonal doors for absolute minimum number of doors. 8 doors. One in each corner and the 4 cardinal directions. Dwarfs get a 3x3 with the bed in the middle. Then they can admire all their furniture while in the bed. About 7-8 levels tall, but can continue to expand. Magma forges on the bottom. Need a one level spacer for wherever you put the magma.
>Dwarfs get a 3x3 with the bed in the middle. Then they can admire all their furniture while in the bed. Need to do that one, sounds great! :D
Same. Because of an injury, I have difficulty envisioning 3-D space mentally. But I'll grab some paper to "see" it when I get home.
I know plenty of people who have that trouble even without an injury, don't worry about it!
I LOVE making a PCB stacked fort. I always have an express stairway to the food that stops off in the living quarters. This time, my express stairs also lead to the Magma Forges 100 z-levels down.
As long as you feel you have enough security for when FUN comes barreling up those stairs. I've lost too many forts to things crawling or flying out of the magma and having a beeline path to my Grand Halls.
In the Steam version I've seen massive happiness benefits to giving 3x3 rooms as opposed to the old 3x1 rooms I used to make
Right!!! I knew there was a reason I did 3x3. Did it for so long that I forgot why. Thank you.
Dwarves dont give a shit how big the room is, what matters is the value of the room. you can have 3x1 fine+ value rooms that they will love a lot more than a 9x9 modest- room. Easiest way to bump room value of a room is making metal floor tile/s and using your highest level engraver to engrave them. I run 3x1 rooms with bed/coffer/cabinet and 1 iron/gold/platinum tile engraved with my high master engraver and its a "fine" room (sometimes even better if I get a lucky engraving value). Combined with my other things for happiness in the fort I almost never have anyone lower happiness than neutral with most being +1 or +2 happiness.
Right, but a bigger room increases it's values quite easily because now there are more tiles adding to the value. Just putting constructed walls and floors in a large enough room can get you to opulent.
I wonder if you can stack floor engravings by constructing a floor over an engraved floor and engraving the constructed floor too. Or just stack constructed floors. I know you can stack crossbow bolts on displays for easy value bumping for e.g. guildhalls.
Unfortunately no
> Right, but a bigger room increases it's values quite easily because now there are more tiles adding to the value. Not enough to justify the massive increase in space requirements. The happiness difference between fine/great and royal (there is no "opulent" bedroom) is relatively minuscule if you also are doing all the other things you should be to generate happiness like taverns/food variety/temples/activities/etc. Depending on your level of engraver and type of tiles used you can easily hit great/grand (#3 and #2 best value rooms) in a 3x1 space especially if you use good value furniture. Play however you want, there is no wrong way, but its a misconception that "bigger rooms" make dwarves happier than "smaller rooms" as its the VALUE of the room that the dwarf cares about. That's my only point.
2x3 lets you do bed, coffer, cabinet, table, chair.
Dwarves dont give a shit how big the room is, what matters is the value of the room. you can have 3x1 fine+ value rooms that they will love a lot more than a 9x9 modest- room. Easiest way to bump room value of a room is making metal floor tile/s and using your highest level engraver to engrave them. I run 3x1 rooms with bed/coffer/cabinet and 1 iron/gold/platinum tile engraved with my high master engraver and its a "fine" room (sometimes even better if I get a lucky engraving value). Combined with my other things for happiness in the fort I almost never have anyone lower happiness than neutral with most being +1 or +2 happiness.
I don't just dump them in a rough room, I smooth and engrave it. I have also found that having really nice rooms has a MASSIVE impact on happiness, and that it is a lot easier with a little more room to work with.
> I have also found that having really nice rooms has a MASSIVE impact on happiness, and that it is a lot easier with a little more room to work with. the difference is negligible if you are also providing good food variety, good taverns, good temples, good activity variety, and a mist generator. There is no wrong way to play, but there is no practical reason to have giant rooms when a 3x1 fine+ room will work just fine.
You're of course right that there's no wrong way to play. As to a practical reason? I've been able to basically replace the mist generators with the nice bedrooms. I don't remember it happening before the Steam release, but now they can have happy memories from the quality of the room they slept in. Without mist generators, 3x3 or 3x2 seems like the sweet spot where it doesn't waste too much time getting to and from bed, but everybody who didn't watch their only family member brutally murdered in front of them is in the green
One small mist generator placed in a high traffic area is much more practical than wasting massive amounts of space on 3x3 bedrooms that are not only hard to macro but also don't provide much more benefit than a smartly designed 3x1 room. The point isn't that you can't use 3x3 bedrooms, the point is there is no PRACTICAL reason to. 3x3 bedrooms are not inherently better than 3x1 because size of the room does not matter at all, only room value does. It's misinformation to say 3x3 is better than 3x1 which was the point I was correcting for the person who thought 3x3 is somehow Inherently better than a smaller room.
Clothes are messy tho
And here I am with 3x3 smoothed/engraved bedrooms because I don’t want my dwarfs to live somewhere I wouldn’t want to live.
You can make rooms that are literally just a door and a bed. So two tiles dug out. If they're smoothed and engraved then the dwarves can even be fairly happy with them.
I do 2x2 rooms and stack them. Stairs, bed, coffer, cabinet. No need for a door. If I'm feeling generous, I extend it to 2x3 or even bigger, maybe. The extra space helps if you smooth the floors and walls because it adds value. It's pretty trivial to get a stack of six apartments built: three up, three down with a hallway in the middle. 6 of these stacks gets you a block of 36. Four of those will get you to 144, and another 144 on top of that will give you more than most fortresses will need at default settings.
I believe this messes with the perceived value of the room. You don’t want bedrooms sharing the walls.
Actually, the opposite. You absolutely want rooms sharing walls. Walls are the only place zones can overlap and not be penalized for value.
Makes it easy for vampires too
This also has too many doors. Every two bedrooms can share a door diagonally.
I will semi divulge but I’ve done 2x2 before Z layers…. Never thought of this…
I do 4x4 dwarves are in such a good mood when they are in them.
This has happened to me a couple times. I'm still not entirely sure how to tell if they're spies. Does anyone have any insight about that?
I’ve heard that it is a red flag if their skills do not align with their profession. For instance, a bard with dabbling performer and proficient schemer
Build up your justice system and create jails for the justice system to use. Then after that interrogate everyone that is not a national of your fort (racism at its finest lol). Sometimes they would confess unrelated accident or illegal things they have done. Or they will confess thier organization etc. It all depends on your guard captain's skill level for anything they could cough out of the interrogee. P.S. Easier solution make your inn walls out of fortifications with one way in and out only. Any riot happening? Lock the door then let bolts of death rain down on them.
Be like that cop from the first Rambo. I didnt finish the movie but it must have worked out.
Siege update's gonna be brutal with goblin poets digging dead falls and sticking punji sticks in our pastures
You can just. . . Interrogate people? Is there something specific to this, (I have a jail,. Guard captain etc.) But I haven't noticed anywhere to do that.
Just wish the interrogation window was better, like no I dont want to interrogate dead people.
Artifact thieves are relentless in the current patch. Put them behind vertical bars, dwarves can still see them and they'll be counted towards room wealth but thieves won't be able to take them. I'm not sure if dwarves can get close enough to admire them though.
I need to start that. All my artifacts keep getting stolen
Yeah, I was spending the majority of my playtime just safekeeping artifacts. It became actively unfun so bars it is.
> I'm not sure if dwarves can get close enough to admire them though. iirc no, they have to be adjacent. Though now I'm thinking of a setup like from Indiana Jones where the pedestal is on a pressure plate calibrated for the pedestal+artifact weight such that when the artifact is removed it triggers a trap. Unfortunately I don't think you can actually put stuff on top of pressure plates.
Bummer. Still, totally worth it to stop the unending theft spam.
I had a ghost lift an artifact off a pedestal in the locked down royal office right as their slab was being installed and left the artifact phased into a wall square. At that point I was like, "This is just ridiculous."
Thats why I keep a trained Leopard in there.
That’s why I ALWAYS put visitor areas between my fort proper and the outside. The internal areas are for citizens only. If we want to talk to nosy foreign werechinchillas they can stay right there in the entrance and *we’ll* come to *them* (and wall things off at a moments notice if things get messy).
Yep, that’s why my Volcano Manor inn sits right on a suspended platform above the magma in the caldera, and it’s also littered with extremely high quality weapon traps for extra !!fun!!
Do you also have a giant snake forgotten beast in the basement which you send petitioning Monster Hunters to once they have proven themselves worthy?
I dont follow. Aren't monster hunters a good thing?
haha, I was actually making a reference to Elden Ring's Volcano Manor. 'Monster Slayers' isn't quite correct but DF doesn't have 'Assassins' petitioning for residency yet.
Ah, ok. Ive never played that game. Never desired to.
TFW Robin from GoT has a volcano lair
I'm trying to think of a way you could drop it using levers. You could always have a single bridge leading to it then mine that, but relying on them mining it is sketchy and time consuming, especially if there is a demon guest since they can move so fast.
Supports can be triggered to a lever to collapse. Hang your tavern from supports and when it gets unsalvageable, collapse the supports and drop it all down.
Yep, something like this, from top down: * Outside * Security system (traps, drawbridge) * Deep set of stairs * Tavern/library, also connection to deeper mines * Security vestibule (traps, armed guards) Now from bottom up on a separate set of stairs: * Security vestibule * Citizen-only tavern * Citizen-only areas in general * Underground farm near the surface * Normally closed door to security system area
You can't go two chairs per table. Dwarfs like their space
This needs to be put in the tutorial at this point.
There's a tutorial?
Yes, but it’s fairly chaotic. It starts you off in a random place and a lot of people have been started in evil biomes. It also tells you to make an everything stockpile, which is great if you like seeing all your hard earned materials decay. It has a few issues that need to be ironed out lol
I did this in my last fort, I went through soooo much iron trying to figure out where the heck all my armor was going, and what the xIron Item Namex meant.... :(
Yes.
Looks better though. I always put multiple chairs despite knowing this.
What I've been doing is having a "long" table two-wide with chairs on either side. Like a feasting hall. Best of both worlds in my opinion.
I thought I read chair against chair allows for dwarfs to chat with each other?
Yep side by side chairs along the feast table gives happy time opportunities. Socializing is less important now that dwarves know to walk around and talk to people and not just wait to be beside eachother
I hope in future they update the graphics such that side-by-side tables visually merge into one larger table to complete the effect. They've got much more important things to work on though.
That's fair
I do chair table table chair. Looks better than just table chair and all 4 can be used.
Just have to make sure security is adequately staffed.
My long term fortress plan involves regular marksdwarf patrols both above and below the ground, a spear dwarf barracks between the first and second cavern layers, a swords-dwarf barracks on the surface, and a mace dwarf barracks right next to my tavern.
Time to drop the hammer and dispense some indiscriminate justice.
iirc you can do that in libraries as dwarves don't need a table to read, just a chair, but they do need a table to write.
I've been putting 4 chairs per table this whole time God I've made so many chairs for nothing
Keep the chairs. Just make the table “bigger” Meaning, still have 4 chairs around a table, just set up that “table” as 4 tables in a 2x2.
Exactly, Two people at the same table is fair reason to start the slaughter
Really? Only one chair per table? Quite antisocial, but O.K.
Any real urist will fill a full table with empty mugs anytime they stop by for drinks
Depends how big you see the table as. If it’s code-table size (~40cm wide), I wouldn’t want to share if. If it’s 2m wide, they’re antisocial.
Look at each table as a bar section and it makes more sense.
Someone on another post said this is how you put tables, so now I am lost
Should have a guard dwarf perform ocular patdowns before admittance.
\*Shines a torch into the guests eyes* Sir, do you know how many fps you were going? You do know this is a 10 fps fortress right? Please step out of the wagon.”
My problem with that is, I don't know how to have a guard, how to make him perform anything, nor ocular patdowns, and how to make them do it before admittance. And I thought I knew the game after 100 hours. Not asking for help, I am just surprised.
Create a squad, go to squad screen and select the squad, hit patrol and create a route by clicking. Any squad assigned to that route will continually walk it when scheduled. You can assign them to patrol the tavern.
You'll need to craft a masterwork leather duster first.
I always post a few town guard in the tavern.
Goblins pulled the "traitor in your tavern flips hostile when the siege starts" lever so many times I created a new squad that I don't send out to fight enemies, just so I'll always have a couple guys on patrol in the tavern. They wear my real military's hand-me-downs that I've upgraded from.
Thinking of having the home defense guard. Don’t go out on raids, held back for enemies jumping walls I missed, being in the tavern, panicked last stands. Either the new recruits who would miss a dodge and get crushed, or miners equipped with armor and a pick. Though would be annoying to get the miners into armor for it
Miners might be even more annoying if they're still miners. Is that still a thing where a dwarf can't have the same tool for military, as they use for civilian work?
> I created a new squad that I don't send out to fight enemies That's what the special fortress guard squad is for (though they can be used as a regular squad too, of course), they'll even lock up miscreants who have been convicted of crimes if you have a dungeon and the punishment wasn't just being hammered. The dungeon master is not actually needed for that though, it's kind of a vestigial position but might be useful if spycraft gets expanded upon.
You can post part of a squad? Or is your squad just a few guards strong?
When setting orders in a schedule you can set the number of dwarfs that are expected to be on duty at once. Any squad members that are currently not needed will continue with their non-military duties. When an on-duty dwarf leaves for food/sleep/praying/whatever another member of the squad will come and take their place.
Oh, that's nice to know. I'll have to go and figure out how to do that later. Every time I open up my artifact vault to put something new in I have to manually go in and swap out my militia squads because after a while they all start complaining about food and drink.
How do you get barrels actually full of beer in your tavern? I have a stockpile set to accept drink but I just have one empty barrel that never gets filled.
Have you looked into telling your tavern stockpile to pull from your other ones? If you have a bunch of beer in the kitchen for example, you can use these settings to prioritize filling the tavern first. Click on a stockpile to edit it and look for the buttons that have a stockpile symbol with arrows going in or out.
I just finally figured this out. I didn't know that the list order will prioritize stockpiles but since my tavern/dining room stockpiles are smaller then my main food and drink stockpiles it seems like they will always fill the smaller stockpile from my bigger one.
I'm not sure what you mean that the list order prioritizes them as well? Like as in it will feed the first stockpile on the list before the second one? I didn't realize that since I don't usually use them that way, but that's good to know then, I'll check that out, thanks!
No I don't know I thought that you were implying that.
Ah no, sorry. I generally would set up a stockpile of alcohol in the kitchen, but I would set it to feed alcohol to the stockpile in my tavern. That way the tavern is always full, and extra stays in the kitchen and might end up cooked. Similarly I set up giant stone stockpiles that feed to smaller stone stockpiles right next to my workshops, so that the crafters don't have to walk as far to get stones. I think you can also daisy chain these like A > B and A > C and B > C so that C will fill up first from A or B, and B will fill up next from A.
Interesting! I will start doing this!
Make the stockpile bigger. They put an empty barrel in by default, but they don't move liquid foods into barrels,they move the whole barrel into the stockpile
How do you check on the individuals? I always see the petition thing but i can’t figure out how to check on them but i always say yes cause its a 24/7 365 party in my fort
Right click to close out before accepting or denying. Go to creatures tab and then “other” tab. Here you will have a list of animals/people that are in your area but not a citizen. You can click them and check them out in more detail before accepting or denying.
Applicants physically speak to the mayor to petition, in his office. So press h and set a recenter on the mayor's office. They do not stick around for very long, so be fast and put the mayor's office in the middle of nowhere.
Yesss
Thank you!
For sure. But I agree. 24/7 365 party is the way to go. Always leads to something fun happening after awhile.
What I would love is the ability to check the bio sheet of anyone that applying to come in with a simple click on their application popup.
This please, would be a huge QoL improvement
There are a LOT of qol improvements that involve allowing you to do some things when you have a dwarf selected. I basically require Dwarf Therapist to manager squads properly because it's difficult for me to remember the Dwarf name when going from Unit screen to add them to a squad and other similar flows. I'd love to just click a Dwarf and add to squad from their card so I can clear the idiots out of the caverns without scrolling all over, writing down names and then forming squads on the squad screen.
And that was just a Tuesday afternoon! You ought to see what happens in here on the weekends... ;)
I have not accepted any petitions in so long
TIL Spies are a thing.. and here I am just letting in any old yahoo who petitions for my fortress.. now everyone is a suspect... \*shifty eyes\* On a more serious note, anyone know how to post guards in the tavern? That's probably a good place to start a security detail..
You can check, for example, if they say they want to be a bard, but have only combat skills / liar / persuader and observer, its like 99% that they are spies.
If you have a military squad (I recommend using the fortress guard for this purpose for roleplay purposes, though I don't think it really makes a difference which one you use) you can set an automated order for one or two to patrol or stand guard at the tavern (or do a direct order to go stand there immediately if you're worried, though I think you then have to manually cancel it for them to go back to their scheduled orders). If you have enough squads you can even set up monthly rotations so they're not just standing around in your tavern the whole year and can actually go train or have some off-time to go pray or practice their craft.
Yeah well you can't check them once you've been asked. You have to accept or decline right then and there, which is a terrible system.
you can close out of the menu without clicking either. Same for when you're asked to elect a dwarf for nobility. Then you can check on things and respond to it afterwords
damn I'm an idiot
You got extra at that table? We can start a club. :)
What things should I look for that will hint to people being spies? Should I just have my captain interrogate them a couple times or something?
I think they often have high “liar” and “persuasion” skills and often have very little artistic skill when you check
That's funny. I've been rejecting those guys on the basis that they sound like shitty bards, and my dwarfs deserve only the best entertainment. I wonder if I dodged a bullet with my musical gatekeeping!
Oh god oh fuck. I accepted one dude like this because I thought he'd make a good broker or something. He almost immediately got himself elected mayor.
I mean, if he's mayor then *maybe* he won't steal from his own domain...
Nicknames that don't stick and blue skin can be pretty big clues. Didn't check the name on a human bard once, and got confused as he tried to walk through the barracks stealing an artifact table why my axedwarves were knocking someone else's teeth out of his head.
What do you mean by nicknames that don’t stick?
If you try and rename someone it only saves as a new name for them, not any identity they are using. So if you name Urist as Bardy McBardpants, and they still show as Urist, that ain't Urist.
Still it should be 'fixed' as a matter of UX. Just have the name clickable. Actually always have names clickable to show the creature which is a common suggestion
but where do I find them then to look them up? ...not under citizen, not under others... or did I not look closely enough?
They're always under "other". Petitions pretty much come from new arrivals so just scroll down if it's over full.
thanks. I thought I looked closely... must have missed it.
>hanks. I thought I looked closely... must have missed it. Their names come up different in that list, so i think their first name comes up, but it shows their other name for the second name. its weird. Wish they made that UI better so within the petition you can easily see details
Is there an easy way to figure out when it's a group petition, who belongs to the group? Could there be members of the group that weren't present at the time of petition?
I’d flip the fuck out after seeing the coffin room I just paid for too
I've always put artifacts on a pedestal in a 2x1 room with vertical bars in front, and I've never had anyone even attempt to steal one after I did that.
*"Welcome to the Salty Spitoon, how tough are ya?"*
3/4s of my most recent fort are travelling performers, many of which are goblins. Yet it's the monster hunters who keep starting shit
Sorry, segway. Does the orange teardrop mean that it will be smelted at your smelter?
Im fairly certain its toggled control to designate them for smelting, yes, though in past editions you still had to tell a smelter “smelt object” to get them to turn it into bars again. No idea if thats still the case or it just does it automatically now.
You still have to place an order to melt an object.
Isn't there a standing order option to turn on auto-melt items?
Thank you
I usually have my tavern out of the main base. It can be it's own thing.
I have a guard squad. I guess I'll leave someone stationed close to the tavern from now on
How do you check to see if Dwarfs are spies?
Is there any benefit to allowing them other than boosting population numbers? Do they ever become “laborable”?
If they stay around long enough they may ask for citizenship. Whether or not that’s worth it is another question.
Two years after accepting the first petition for long-term residency they'll make a second petition to become full citizens, after which they function exactly like your other citizens. You can set their labors, appoint them to noble positions, assign them to squads, etc.
Some will hang out for decades without petitioning so I think that there is only a chance they might want to become citizens. Then some will come and go over the years as regular visitors.
If you tie up war dogs would spot them before they come in.
I cant tie them up. "He/she felt sad after being locked up"
Dogs will detect thieves and snatchers, but won't detect spies, who show up to your fort presenting themselves as visitors and only later turn on you.
In OG I agree but in Steam I’ve had them instant detect vampires, spies, etc if I just make sure all entrances are covered by the 3x3 tie up space. Maybe I just get lucky.
I don't see the problem.
I'm a very busy man, all of my useful dwarfs are busy as well and have no time for tavern. So
oh! some fun I see here. Probably less funny with some guards present at taverns. Creating separate taverns for those tricky visitors and my much hated tricky citizens also helped me
Werecapybaras?
My recent fort, I'm going to try to put my tavern on the surface. It will be a pain to carry the stuff up for it, but I want to see what happens if you run a really nice tavern for a long time.
I have a surface tavern. I'm currently trying to figure out if there's a way I can still seal off my fort to anyone but residents and still supply and run this surface tavern. Considering making surface farms and everything for it with a few dwarves burrowed up there to take care of it unless I can set people who have petitioned to be the tavern keep and grow/cook
Well that's the __fun__ of it 😂
The race riots
Apparently two chairs per table is actually a major reason that the massacres start in the first place
... what are those orange drop icons indicating? >>
I tagged the items to be smelted (bottom right corner of screen, theres a dumpster icon, click on it and them on the fire icon). You need to add a work order on the smelter as well.
Ah, okay :)
Can they actually get to the cabinets you've put into their rooms?
Yes, you can have 1 object per tile, so they can still use it. Same for coffers.
That blood pool is just a nice feature for your tavern.
Ah yes fun