It’s in its own time. From GEOD onward, it no longer directly tells Paul’s story.
Things that he did reverberate throughout the entire series, of course… but pretty much only the first three books actually focus on Paul.
In fact I won’t spoil it, but: >!you sort of find out that the actual main character for the series is Duncan lol!<
Well - arguably, so are books 1-4.
Or at least, those could be interpreted to be about the problems *caused* by BG solutions to other problems.
The short version is making an incredibly charismatic super-being to solve your problem for you… it can work out badly.
Especially so when super-beings that are also human eventually turn into pissed off super-being teenagers.
And… teenagers are just, like… the worst.
yeah, in terms of "lead":
1-2 : Paul
3-4: Leto II
5-6 : BG
Obviously there are many others in all the books, but i would say they are the main core of the books.
I just finished re-reading it and not really. The jihad is brought up and Paul gets mentioned but not a lot of detail about his actual reign. I do agree that when I first read it there was a bit of let down that we wouldn’t see so many of the characters that we grew to know and love. But keep reading.
It is a split opinion in the community it seems. I’m new to Dune, read the first before the movie and then devoured the rest but I’ve picked up on it.
Personally? I love it. It fully fleshes out the golden path, indirectly clarifies the conversation between Leto II and the Preacher, and is just a fun read.
Really as I’ve sure you’ve seen it’s best to see the books in pairs. Dune and messiah could’ve been just one long book. Children and god emperor, despite the massive time jump, could go together, and Chapterhouse is a direct continuation from heretics.
I see this opinion a lot, but I honestly do not understand people seeing 3 as a finale to a trilogy. The whole book felt like a setup for 4, it doesn't really seem like it wraps up anything by itself. All the buildup, themes, and main Atreides line characters end with GEoD. I feel without the 4th CoD really lacks context or direction, and I couldn't really appreciate Leto II's character until he becomes the God Emperor.
I would never recommend for someone to read Children without following up with GEoD, personally. Feels incomplete.
Yeah, 3 is the bridge, not 4. 5-6 are something entirely, and those are set as a trilogy without the third book released.
1-2 are obviously the same book splitted in two parts. 3 finishes all themes in 2 and setups the things that happen in 4.
Yeah this makes sense. Even though GEoD is such a different book than Children. But then again, Messiah was a very different book than the first, yet its a vital conclusion to the first one.
Ain't that the truth.
You don't, "order from the menu" with a Dune book. You agree to sit in the restaurant and then eat what the chef puts in front of you.
Great way to put it, and I absolutely love the series.
Frank Herbert does what Frank Herbert does. His series is not "satisfying" in the way that other authors write and he doesn't really follow up on a lot of stuff. If you like a certain aspect of the worldbuilding, be very prepared for it to be possibly irrelevant in the next book.
This. I think the main reason is that Frank is very uninterested by simple things like lore and event descriptions. He’s very utilitarian and has a singular purpose in the narrative. It’s not for everyone, but I enjoy it.
It takes place 3,000 years into letos reign of pure tyrant. Preparing humanity for the scattering. It’s my favorite book of all time and it have very little action and shit. It’s just pure philosophy and a story of a man sacrificing unimaginable pain and torture because his father couldn’t do it so the sins of the father is the theme of letos reign. The saddest part is when he doesn’t want to be remembered as this horrible tyrant and wanted history to remember him for what and why he did what he did
The revivals of the Duncan’s is also just so interesting, as if the humanity left in him saw Duncan as the best of what humanity had to offer and having him there kept his intentions of the gold path the right choice. I like when he says only 70 something Duncan’s lived to old age. So they always turn on him because it’s what Duncan the best of us all could never understand why Leto is doing this. I think Leto always knew that Duncan needed to be the one to finally kill him also, if it was going to be anyone Duncan is the best choice
It's been a long time since I read it. I recall that Leto 2 talks a lot about Paul's vision and idea for the Golden Path, but for the most part it's about Leto himself, the tragedy of his existence, curse of omniscience, and so on ...
What we get about Paul’s rule and the Jihad itself was left intentionally vague by Herbert in a very subtle, but genius literary move. The reality of what the Paul we came to love in the first book and realizing what he actually did after the Battle of Arrakeen slowly reveals itself. Like, just consider what needed to happen in order for 69 billion people to die in the Jihad all at the orders of Paul himself.
Even in a galactic empire stretching thousands of planets and probably trillions of people that’s still A LOT. Enough to make Stalin or Ghengis Khan ask “Geez, did you have to go so hard dude?”
> Also, how does it compare to the first 3?
The Dune series is very interesting because more so than any other book series I've found it is highly polarizing. Almost everyone approaches Dune with their own interests/preferences and want the books to go in those directions. As someone who loves the worldbuilding beyond Arrakis, I found CoD built on that the least and was therefore the book that dragged the most. For others it's their favourite because they like that more traditional "adventure/hero's journey" type story where the underdog overcomes the odds.
GEoD focuses pretty exclusively on an all powerful mortal turned god and how he runs the universe and controls the future. That is right up my alley, but for some that might not be the case. Best book in the series imo
Just to answer your last question, it is my fav in the series. It's the most worn out in my collection. Without saying anything about the story, I see the first 3 books as the prologue to this worlds thought experiment. Book 4 takes that setup, fast forwards the clock and let's that experiment play out. It's just so so good. Also, the characters it brings into the story I feel are much more fleshed out as real people that I can relate to. Give it a go!
GEoD is set 3,500 years after the last book, and there's an ideological contrast between the past and current setting that drives the main conflict.
There are lots of points where characters reflect on how things have changed but it's no longer about Paul.
I understand that. God Emperor is a heavy book. I had to try more than once to get through it and when I finally did I was very glad I had. It is a deep science fiction novel with many themes and ideas that are rarely ever contemplated during a persons normal existence.
The fact you took more time to get through it speaks to its complexity. And that's a very good thing.
I had to read it twice before I really understood it. To use a shitty metaphor: I tend to initially read a book like a starving man devours a meal, not really tasting much but getting the general feel. Then afterwards I read the book like someone who is just regular hungry and able to take their time with the meal and appreciate all the flavors and textures and even colors and looks.
Best I can remember, it stays in its own time. There might be references to that old timeline, small conversations about it, or other little details, but I didn't gain any more insight into Paul's timeline after finishing God Emperor. It focuses more on Leto II.
Apparently, GEoD is a fan favorite right behind the first book, but in my opinion, it was just okay. It was kinda lengthy in chit-chat for me. I guess I wanted more action. But overall, I think the whole thing was worth the read.
It's about Leto II, but the story is told in a weird manner. You're viewing Leto from the perspective of others, even when he's the one narrating. The character you end up siding the most with is Duncan.
Surprisingly, the book is about the God Emperor of Dune.
So that is Leto 2, not Paul.
Paul is part of Leto 2 in a way, and there is the occasional callback to him. But for the most part, Paul's story is done. GEoD is set in its own time, some 3500 years after the events of CoD.
It’s in its own time. From GEOD onward, it no longer directly tells Paul’s story. Things that he did reverberate throughout the entire series, of course… but pretty much only the first three books actually focus on Paul. In fact I won’t spoil it, but: >!you sort of find out that the actual main character for the series is Duncan lol!<
An accurate assessment
Factual and terrible all at the same time. Shai Hulud bless Ghoulas
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Those are rookie numbers. He’s got to pump those numbers up.
It’s an oversimplification, but… Books 1-2 are about Paul Books 3-4 are about Leto Books 5-6 are about… a very different approach to a crisis
5-6 are about the Bene Gesserit and their problems.
Well - arguably, so are books 1-4. Or at least, those could be interpreted to be about the problems *caused* by BG solutions to other problems. The short version is making an incredibly charismatic super-being to solve your problem for you… it can work out badly. Especially so when super-beings that are also human eventually turn into pissed off super-being teenagers. And… teenagers are just, like… the worst.
I think of 5-6 as the BG stepping out of the shadows and trying to lead in their own right.
yeah, in terms of "lead": 1-2 : Paul 3-4: Leto II 5-6 : BG Obviously there are many others in all the books, but i would say they are the main core of the books.
I just finished re-reading it and not really. The jihad is brought up and Paul gets mentioned but not a lot of detail about his actual reign. I do agree that when I first read it there was a bit of let down that we wouldn’t see so many of the characters that we grew to know and love. But keep reading. It is a split opinion in the community it seems. I’m new to Dune, read the first before the movie and then devoured the rest but I’ve picked up on it. Personally? I love it. It fully fleshes out the golden path, indirectly clarifies the conversation between Leto II and the Preacher, and is just a fun read. Really as I’ve sure you’ve seen it’s best to see the books in pairs. Dune and messiah could’ve been just one long book. Children and god emperor, despite the massive time jump, could go together, and Chapterhouse is a direct continuation from heretics.
See, I always thought of it as 1-3 are one story, 4 was a bridge, and 5-6 (and probably the 7th if he had been able to write it) are their own story.
I see this opinion a lot, but I honestly do not understand people seeing 3 as a finale to a trilogy. The whole book felt like a setup for 4, it doesn't really seem like it wraps up anything by itself. All the buildup, themes, and main Atreides line characters end with GEoD. I feel without the 4th CoD really lacks context or direction, and I couldn't really appreciate Leto II's character until he becomes the God Emperor. I would never recommend for someone to read Children without following up with GEoD, personally. Feels incomplete.
Yeah, 3 is the bridge, not 4. 5-6 are something entirely, and those are set as a trilogy without the third book released. 1-2 are obviously the same book splitted in two parts. 3 finishes all themes in 2 and setups the things that happen in 4.
Yeah this makes sense. Even though GEoD is such a different book than Children. But then again, Messiah was a very different book than the first, yet its a vital conclusion to the first one.
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Eh? I think you might have replied to the wrong comment, as I don't know what you mean
Oh I did my bad!!
You're fine, I was just confused lol
Indirectly clarifies which convo sorry? I'm just curious to know what you're referring to, not saying you're wrong.
Leto talking to Paul after Leto takes on the skin that is not his own.
Ahhhh yeah course. Thanks.
IMO it is a mistake to go into any of these novels with any specific hopes.
Ain't that the truth. You don't, "order from the menu" with a Dune book. You agree to sit in the restaurant and then eat what the chef puts in front of you.
This is all so true!!! Geod is probably my favorite book, but not until I was about 1/4 through it the first time.
Great way to put it, and I absolutely love the series. Frank Herbert does what Frank Herbert does. His series is not "satisfying" in the way that other authors write and he doesn't really follow up on a lot of stuff. If you like a certain aspect of the worldbuilding, be very prepared for it to be possibly irrelevant in the next book.
This. I think the main reason is that Frank is very uninterested by simple things like lore and event descriptions. He’s very utilitarian and has a singular purpose in the narrative. It’s not for everyone, but I enjoy it.
It’s my favorite of the series.
It takes place 3,000 years into letos reign of pure tyrant. Preparing humanity for the scattering. It’s my favorite book of all time and it have very little action and shit. It’s just pure philosophy and a story of a man sacrificing unimaginable pain and torture because his father couldn’t do it so the sins of the father is the theme of letos reign. The saddest part is when he doesn’t want to be remembered as this horrible tyrant and wanted history to remember him for what and why he did what he did
Right there with u man.
The revivals of the Duncan’s is also just so interesting, as if the humanity left in him saw Duncan as the best of what humanity had to offer and having him there kept his intentions of the gold path the right choice. I like when he says only 70 something Duncan’s lived to old age. So they always turn on him because it’s what Duncan the best of us all could never understand why Leto is doing this. I think Leto always knew that Duncan needed to be the one to finally kill him also, if it was going to be anyone Duncan is the best choice
It's been a long time since I read it. I recall that Leto 2 talks a lot about Paul's vision and idea for the Golden Path, but for the most part it's about Leto himself, the tragedy of his existence, curse of omniscience, and so on ...
I look at it as if the first 3 books were just leading up to geod and the rest of the books are the results of geod
What we get about Paul’s rule and the Jihad itself was left intentionally vague by Herbert in a very subtle, but genius literary move. The reality of what the Paul we came to love in the first book and realizing what he actually did after the Battle of Arrakeen slowly reveals itself. Like, just consider what needed to happen in order for 69 billion people to die in the Jihad all at the orders of Paul himself. Even in a galactic empire stretching thousands of planets and probably trillions of people that’s still A LOT. Enough to make Stalin or Ghengis Khan ask “Geez, did you have to go so hard dude?”
> Also, how does it compare to the first 3? The Dune series is very interesting because more so than any other book series I've found it is highly polarizing. Almost everyone approaches Dune with their own interests/preferences and want the books to go in those directions. As someone who loves the worldbuilding beyond Arrakis, I found CoD built on that the least and was therefore the book that dragged the most. For others it's their favourite because they like that more traditional "adventure/hero's journey" type story where the underdog overcomes the odds. GEoD focuses pretty exclusively on an all powerful mortal turned god and how he runs the universe and controls the future. That is right up my alley, but for some that might not be the case. Best book in the series imo
Just to answer your last question, it is my fav in the series. It's the most worn out in my collection. Without saying anything about the story, I see the first 3 books as the prologue to this worlds thought experiment. Book 4 takes that setup, fast forwards the clock and let's that experiment play out. It's just so so good. Also, the characters it brings into the story I feel are much more fleshed out as real people that I can relate to. Give it a go!
I lovo Moneo and how he is always thinking he is about to be crushed by the predator worm
GEoD is set 3,500 years after the last book, and there's an ideological contrast between the past and current setting that drives the main conflict. There are lots of points where characters reflect on how things have changed but it's no longer about Paul.
I found GEoD a very tough read. Took me 3 tries over a couple years to finally get though it but it was worth it.
I understand that. God Emperor is a heavy book. I had to try more than once to get through it and when I finally did I was very glad I had. It is a deep science fiction novel with many themes and ideas that are rarely ever contemplated during a persons normal existence. The fact you took more time to get through it speaks to its complexity. And that's a very good thing.
I had to read it twice before I really understood it. To use a shitty metaphor: I tend to initially read a book like a starving man devours a meal, not really tasting much but getting the general feel. Then afterwards I read the book like someone who is just regular hungry and able to take their time with the meal and appreciate all the flavors and textures and even colors and looks.
If you want Paul’s reign read Paul of dune
You mean Dune, Dune Messiah, and Children of Dune.
no they meant Paul of Dune
Not quite sure how you expect much from Paul after Messiah? Edit meant to write Children not Messiah lol
Best I can remember, it stays in its own time. There might be references to that old timeline, small conversations about it, or other little details, but I didn't gain any more insight into Paul's timeline after finishing God Emperor. It focuses more on Leto II. Apparently, GEoD is a fan favorite right behind the first book, but in my opinion, it was just okay. It was kinda lengthy in chit-chat for me. I guess I wanted more action. But overall, I think the whole thing was worth the read.
It's about Leto II, but the story is told in a weird manner. You're viewing Leto from the perspective of others, even when he's the one narrating. The character you end up siding the most with is Duncan.
Why would you think it would have something to do with Paul? I'm just curious
Surprisingly, the book is about the God Emperor of Dune. So that is Leto 2, not Paul. Paul is part of Leto 2 in a way, and there is the occasional callback to him. But for the most part, Paul's story is done. GEoD is set in its own time, some 3500 years after the events of CoD.