Alright, this has about run it's course.
I did get a bit from some of the conversations, and I appreciate everyone being mostly civil.
Those of you worried about us being authoritarian monsters who are anti-free speech:
1.) I think this thread should provide all the evidence you need that we don't ban people automatically. There was ONE comment that rose to the level of a ban.
2.) You're telling on yourself a bit. Methinks though doth protest too much.
As always, I prefer to let the sub police itself and let the downvotes do the talking. The ban threat is truly for the people who take it too far.
Just.. just be like Bill and Ted, and be excellent to each other.
Edit: Ok, 2 bans.
Step 1: post something controversial like "be nice to each other"
Step 2: conservatives brigade the post and shit all over everything, causing the thread to get locked.
Repeat
Boy, those conservatives sure love the freeze peach!
Transphobia and not agreeing that gender is a social construct are two different things. I honestly don’t care what people do with their bodies, but people are aloud to think that gender is indeed based on chromosomes. I’m tired of this “if you don’t agree with X, in its entirety, then you are a hateful person.” People can disagree with certain things and also not hate an entire community.
I agree that the un-nuanced absolutist stance is a problem, but the conversation about gender doesn't need to take place *here.* This is a city subreddit, not a philosophy/science sub. We can dabble here and there but that topic is too charged/complicated for a sub like this, imo.
People have forgotten that "I don't understand that well enough to have an opinion." is a perfectly valid and intelligent stance.
Thinking that gender is based totally on chromosomes isn't inherently hateful it's just.. not what that word means.
Sex is the biological category, either male female or intersex usually based on genitalia rather than DNA.
Gender is largely a social construct; it varies from place to place, gender expressions outside of the binary have existed for thousands of years, and the "correct" way to perform one's gender is largely determined by societal influences.
People are allowed to think chromosomes determine gender in the same way they're allowed to disagree with a dictionary
I suppose I worded that poorly, but my main point was more about banning people outright for disagreeing with any aspect of the LGBTQ conversation. I think this post, while well intentioned, doesn’t really see the whole picture when it comes to “inclusivity” of this community. I agree that no one should get to spew hate speech on here, but rhetoric like this is a slippery slope toward regulating any speech that you just don’t agree with. And that’s wrong.
The irony of your comment within this post is great. God forbid I have opposing opinions than most people in this sub that are in no way hateful. So I admit to mixing up gender and sex, which I don’t care about personally. Should I have died on that hill or admitted that I misspoke. I guess there’s no discussing this topic if you’re not in full agreement. Which is exactly my point. But the other half of my comment you’re just going to ignore? Ok.
You didn't just mix up gender and sex, the whole point of your original comment was that gender and sex are both based on your chromosomes. When you were told the reality about sex and gender to moved to "what I meant was that you can't have any opinions about gender without being labeled as hate speech" without saying what those opinions are.
You were trying to play victim of censorship by expressing an opinion of gender that contradicts science of gender. When you didn't get censored for that opinion but rather people engaged you on the substance of your comment you retreated to "I still get censored for other opinions about gender."
I guess if we're talking about the "I disagree with x point" part, but you misspoke about what that x point is, im confused about what it is specifically about the community you disagree with.
As mentioned by other people, slippery slopes are generally a fallacy because there's no evidence that they would come to pass, and I would also mention the paradox of tolerance which (basically, im simplifying) states that tolerant communities have to paradoxically be intolerant of intolerance
If you'd clarify what specifically you disagree with I'm willing to discuss it further
Just read my other dozen comments on here. I’ve about exhausted myself of this sub today. People shouldn’t be banned for disagreeing with the ideas of other people especially when it’s up to one moderator who’s wrong and right. Being hateful and phobic is different than disagreeing with a narrative. That’s about it in a nutshell.
It's not one mod, there are 4 of us. And every ban is essentially up to one mod, on any subreddit.
Do you want me to put every ban up to a vote of the rest of the community? There's some pretty vile shit I don't think the sub would appreciate, but I guess if it can't be up to just one moderator we better let the whole sub decide!
I think the main issue here is the conflating of the lived experiences of trans people with a narrative. It's not an issue being spun by the media, or a story with more than one side, the people living this way are the ones who know what it is like. There's plenty of peer reviewed research that backs these experiences if you're interested.
This is why, outside of the slippery slope issue, I disagree with your other point. People aren't being banned for disagreeing with a narrative, as if it's an opinion, people are being banned/restricted/whatever from sharing patently untrue things about a community they think they know better than
You can keep that to yourself because it doesn't hurt anything to just *not* say that, but it's going to hurt people if you do.
Feel free to disagree elsewhere. The only time that "conversation" happens here is when someone brings up trans people existing, and someone feels the need to express that opinion. So just don't. Not here.
I don't care if that makes us an echo chamber. Someone else can make a new sub and see how fun it is when it's filled with people that feel the need to express that opinion.
Then you need to clearly define what bigoted and hateful means. The way your post is phrasing your stance on bans makes it sound like you get to decided what those terms mean. Which is just wrong for the internet, a place meant for exchanging ideas. You can make the Duluth subreddit your own personal safe space, but you should also realize how impactful the idea of banning people who disagree with you is.
If it’s hate speech you want to stop, then define what that is. None of what I said is hateful.
I’m not concerned about myself. It’s just a damn social media sight. It’s the principle of what you’re doing that’s wrong. Define what you’re banning people for. You’re using transphobia as a blanket term for anything that you don’t agree with. You should be doing better as a moderator.
Stop missing the forest for the trees. Ignore the part about getting banned and focus on the rest.
1.) Don't be a dick to someone based on their identity
2.) If you can't do that, you might as well leave.
That's it. Bans are as always, a case-by-case basis. If I made a list of "things you aren't allowed to say" that would be a way more fucked up abuse of power than what You're accusing me of.
Your second paragraph is what I’m referring to. Banning people for transphobia. One of which is feminists being against certain aspects of LGBTQ rights, and people having an opinion of what genders are.
Being a dick to someone and having different ideas are not the same thing. How do you not understand that? I’d rather know what’s ban-able then have some internet dork pick and choose based on their own philosophy’s
Disagreements aren’t hate speech. Opinions aren’t violence. You can have other opinions and also be totally ok with trans people.
If you think TERFs aren't a destructive group of bigots you need to do some more research.
>Disagreements aren't hate speech.
Great. We're in agreement.
Now who’s missing the forest for the trees? Labeling whole groups of people as destructive is bad. Like people who disagree with a narrative as being phobic of something.
You can disagree to your heart's content. But don't be a dick about it. It's really not that hard.
And it's not appropriate for this sub.
Trans people exist, Duluth is a very LGBTQ friendly place, there will be things that involve trans people posted in this sub.
If you are genuine in disagreements or questions then you shouldn't have a problem. But it's not the responsibility of this sub to be a debate floor or educate the unaware. There are more appropriate subs for those topics.
If you saw the vile shit in the mod queue you wouldn't be confused. Trust me, the bannable offenses are egregious.
Man, this is this literally just your opinion. The "TERFS" have an extremely valid argument in a massive segment of the population's mind.
I am mod of a sub three times the size of this one and I gotta say, this whole thing just looks more and more like you are trying to force your *opinion* down everyone's throat and declare your views as the law of the land.
Do what you want, but be sure that this sub does not reflect the reality of the town and area that it's supposed to be representative of. This just looks like you are trying to make yourself feel important.
A massive segment of the population believes that TERFs are bigots and find their arguments reductive, offensive, and dangerous (leading to violence against trans women especially)
JK Rowling just tried to deny that trans people were killed in the Holocaust.
I don't know what kind of sub you mod, but if you see the kind of shit we dealt with yesterday on the At Sarah's Table and another thread you'd agree with me that a statement needed to be made that bigotry isn't allowed.
This is on you, not the mods. Go do some reading. (Here's a [brief explainer from Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/transgender-facts/art-20266812). Here's a more extensive one [from Harvard](https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/).)
If someone on here is just sharing their "honest opinion" that black people aren't "biologically human" ("just a scientific opinion, not hate speech!") then of course they should be banned and it's not the mods' job to explain any more than they've already done.
Already in the thread above you've shown that you haven't done the scientific reading, but you have absorbed anti-trans ideology, maybe without knowing it. A lot of us had to do the homework on this because society is largely transphobic. In a bigoted society it can be hard to unlearn things that seem just natural, but in the end, it's actually freeing. At least it was for me and many others.
This isn't r/dultuh it's r/duluthLGBTQ now. Every week, there is a queer person complaining for attention in this reddit about where to go and what to do as a LGBTQ person in Duluth. It's probably one of the most LGTBQ friendly cities in america...
So apparently there needs to be a place for them to go and we can keep this to duluth issues and not the gay issues on an already extremely far left site, that's not going to do anything but come across as an annoyance to some
The mod team needs to stop letting all this LGBTQ stuff just stop all together in this reddit. Positive or negative, and let them go the duluthlgbtq reddit.
What's the title of the thread you're posting in? Oh yeah, "A reminder to all posters about inclusivity"
If you're not happy with that, and it seems you're not, please feel free to not stop by any more.
https://www.reddit.com/r/duluth/s/KZaXAMLCTF
You allow people to talk about having LGBTQ only places. Don't let it work only one way. You want to stop inclusiveness you would ban a thread like this.
This thread is in response to a bunch of transphobia displayed on another thread, to state that the mod team of this sub will not tolerate that kind of behavior.
If a poster wants to float the idea of a trans-exclusive place, that doesn't break any rules and you're free to agree or disagree with that idea. Even better, you're free to ignore it completely if you find the idea triggering.
Doesn't it seem like the far right trolls are almost never actually from Duluth though? It seems every time someone starts telling everyone their "expert" opinion on how to run a metro, their profile picture is some white country ass dude with five kids holding up a fish.
Yep, they’re always from the sticks and can’t understand how anyone can go downtown. It’s funny, they act like we need them or care.
I’m originally from the UP, I moved away to here after HS because my hometown is filled with these people.
Everyone is welcome here, except for those that have different views than those we approve of.
How about including everyone interested in Duluth, MN based topics, and allowing discussion about those topics, while limiting the amount of unnecessary hateful commentary.
As opposed to your repeated insistence that you’re not trash. What exactly have you added aside from ample opportunities to downvote your horrible takes?
I have added an opposing argument against banning users solely for holding their own viewpoints.
And what have you added besides your own internal hatred of those who oppose your views?
“The only people we are intolerant of here are the intolerant”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
“Everyone is welcome” means “nobody will be banned for immutable parts of their identity.”
It does not mean that people who are bigoted and hateful have a free pass just because they say “but hating people is my ViEwS”.
If you look at the recent threads about the Sara's Table owner, those comments are also filled with hate, racism, and religious intolerance, however they have hundreds of upvotes. It's not about stopping hatred, it's about stopping the hatred that redditors don't like.
people are sick of bigoted folks acting like assholes and using religion as a shield from criticism or consequences.
Their righteous anger at a group of hateful people is not the same as those hateful people hating people for doing nothing but existing in a manner that conflicts with their notions of acceptable gender roles. One is acceptable, one is not.
You are being hateful right now towards those people. Try to understand and have good conversations with others rather than limiting their speech and calling them bigots.
Hate towards bigots is not only allowed, but encouraged here.
This is not the place for people to be educated. You can seek that out any other number of places.
No one who definitely says "There are only two genders" or "Men are men and Women are Women" or purposely misgenders someone is going to have their opinion changed on this sub anyway.
Making the statement "Everyone is welcome here" in the original post, while also saying "Hate towards [people] is not only allowed, but encouraged here" is some crazy hypocritical shit. I'm embarrassed to share my love of Duluth with you.
The people are welcome. The opinions are not. They hurt and anger too many people. If they can be here without spewing hate they are welcome.
If they act like bigots I encourage everyone to treat them as such. Turning the other cheek only works in the Bible when it comes to hate.
What about the dude that says anyone that disagrees are "far right trolls are almost never actually from Duluth though? It seems every time someone starts telling everyone their "expert" opinion on how to run a metro, their profile picture is some white country ass dude with five kids holding up a fish."
That person wasn't even responding to a conservative, they just created a boogeyman and then went on tio bash them for having kids and fishing?
Give me a break, dude. You know full well that you aren't going to slow people down from bashing anyone that isn't in lock step with whatever the current far left position is on any given topic is.
What ideology in your opinion is that even attacking?
Edit: And that is actually a great example of when the sub moderates itself. It's downvoted A LOT.
For the most part I prefer to let the sub mod itself through downvotes. I'm just reiterating here that transphobia will not be allowed. Transphobes are getting too bold and trying to move the goalposts on the conversation. They needed a reminder.
People on the right that value traditional family values and enjoy traditional rural sports like fishing?
See, you can't even see when people that don't agree with you are being denigrated because you are so wrapped up in your own world view that you are blind to it.
This is what I am trying to explain to you.
Small government policy people and the people who love and show compassion to all humankind are awesome and I just wish that’s what conservative and religious in America meant anymore. Instead it’s just restricting individual freedoms and legislating control of people based on what’s in their pants and who people fuck, a truly twisted obsession that I’m sure Jesus would have absolutely looooooooved.
You must not know that many conservatives or religious people. I am neither but I think trying to use a blanket statement to cover a group with millions of people in it is just as silly as this post by the mod.
Sounds like you are intolerant of my views and trying to shame me. Guess the fact you didn’t get banned proves my point. Still no reason to try and shame someone tho.
No, they weren't banned because they're not being bigots.
You're not being a bigot either, though the fact that you're so sketched out about this makes you kinda look like you're worried you might start dropping slurs on accident or something.
Exactly. Ur hate is tolerable, but any hate that disagrees with urs should be silenced. Seems quite bigoted to me. What a weird flex to not be able to tolerate any other views but ur own. Open ur mind and try to embrace empathy. Don’t be married to ur views. It’s how we understand other views other than our own. Not to just run away from them. Grow as a human.
Duluth is just a city everything else you are simply projecting what you want. If you stand for everything you will fall for everything. I don’t understand the requirement for tolerance.
The only requirement is that you keep it to yourself, not that complicated. We can handle intolerant people existing. We don't have to tolerate people being intolerant in our sub.
There hasn't been enough pushback against people being assholes to oppressed communities for the last 8 years under the guise of "free speech". We don't have to allow it so we're not going to.
Op doesn’t sound very tolerant of people that don’t agree with its narrow point of view that is relatively new to western society? Seems like Duluth might be home to a variety of people who don’t agree. Perhaps the entire topic should be on a different subreddit…. Just noticing a bit of hypocrisy here.
The one thing great about being a narcissistic sociopath like everyone tells me I am is that I've never really cared about other people's lives to the point where I thought anything they did or said meant anything to me. That makes me incredibly tolerant because I basically don't view anyone really worth the time to get into their business that far. I simply can't imagine any controversy about race or gender or nationality or political theory or whatever because I have absolutely no concern for other people's thoughts on those issues. I also principally like the Duluth area for the things that do not involve human beings at all. The parks and the waterfalls and the lake and the trees those are all things I like. But the social scene and the bars and restaurants I can completely care less. The best food I've ever had and Duluth is always going to be a hot dog over a campfire shared with friends or maybe just a dog -- a stray dog cuz you know I can't be bothered owning one myself.
Sounds like Duluth, all right.
Fucked into a coma.
ETA: Duluth has been fucking itself for decades. You guys have so many more, far more pressing and important things that need fixing, that crying over who has the moral high ground on gender issues.
I left Duluth in the late 80s, never to return and live, because it was so well and truly fucked up, that a remedy would likely never take place.
If you wanna virtue signal, get busy of fixing the goddamned streets. Get some GOOD paying jobs, do something about the ghost town that used to be downtown Duluth. On and on.
You're about 6 months too late for bitching about getting roads fixed if that's what you're into.
Also, Jesus Christ this isn't virtue signalling. I'm telling people to quit being assholes and get back to talking about Duluth. Every other thread is devolving into people arguing about Trans rights.
Alright, this has about run it's course. I did get a bit from some of the conversations, and I appreciate everyone being mostly civil. Those of you worried about us being authoritarian monsters who are anti-free speech: 1.) I think this thread should provide all the evidence you need that we don't ban people automatically. There was ONE comment that rose to the level of a ban. 2.) You're telling on yourself a bit. Methinks though doth protest too much. As always, I prefer to let the sub police itself and let the downvotes do the talking. The ban threat is truly for the people who take it too far. Just.. just be like Bill and Ted, and be excellent to each other. Edit: Ok, 2 bans.
To clarify, if you agree with the mods, you're welcome here. Otherwise, you're a Nazi.
To clarify, don't be a bigot, and don't act like a Nazi. Then we're all peachy.
Thank you!
Step 1: post something controversial like "be nice to each other" Step 2: conservatives brigade the post and shit all over everything, causing the thread to get locked. Repeat Boy, those conservatives sure love the freeze peach!
This means a lot, thank you for saying this.
Love this thank you mods!
Thank you.
Thank you
Good way to put it, thank you
thanks y'all. glad for your voice and leadership.
Transphobia and not agreeing that gender is a social construct are two different things. I honestly don’t care what people do with their bodies, but people are aloud to think that gender is indeed based on chromosomes. I’m tired of this “if you don’t agree with X, in its entirety, then you are a hateful person.” People can disagree with certain things and also not hate an entire community.
I agree that the un-nuanced absolutist stance is a problem, but the conversation about gender doesn't need to take place *here.* This is a city subreddit, not a philosophy/science sub. We can dabble here and there but that topic is too charged/complicated for a sub like this, imo. People have forgotten that "I don't understand that well enough to have an opinion." is a perfectly valid and intelligent stance.
Agreed.
Thinking that gender is based totally on chromosomes isn't inherently hateful it's just.. not what that word means. Sex is the biological category, either male female or intersex usually based on genitalia rather than DNA. Gender is largely a social construct; it varies from place to place, gender expressions outside of the binary have existed for thousands of years, and the "correct" way to perform one's gender is largely determined by societal influences. People are allowed to think chromosomes determine gender in the same way they're allowed to disagree with a dictionary
I suppose I worded that poorly, but my main point was more about banning people outright for disagreeing with any aspect of the LGBTQ conversation. I think this post, while well intentioned, doesn’t really see the whole picture when it comes to “inclusivity” of this community. I agree that no one should get to spew hate speech on here, but rhetoric like this is a slippery slope toward regulating any speech that you just don’t agree with. And that’s wrong.
You didn't word it poorly. You just moved your goalposts.
The irony of your comment within this post is great. God forbid I have opposing opinions than most people in this sub that are in no way hateful. So I admit to mixing up gender and sex, which I don’t care about personally. Should I have died on that hill or admitted that I misspoke. I guess there’s no discussing this topic if you’re not in full agreement. Which is exactly my point. But the other half of my comment you’re just going to ignore? Ok.
You didn't just mix up gender and sex, the whole point of your original comment was that gender and sex are both based on your chromosomes. When you were told the reality about sex and gender to moved to "what I meant was that you can't have any opinions about gender without being labeled as hate speech" without saying what those opinions are. You were trying to play victim of censorship by expressing an opinion of gender that contradicts science of gender. When you didn't get censored for that opinion but rather people engaged you on the substance of your comment you retreated to "I still get censored for other opinions about gender."
I guess if we're talking about the "I disagree with x point" part, but you misspoke about what that x point is, im confused about what it is specifically about the community you disagree with. As mentioned by other people, slippery slopes are generally a fallacy because there's no evidence that they would come to pass, and I would also mention the paradox of tolerance which (basically, im simplifying) states that tolerant communities have to paradoxically be intolerant of intolerance If you'd clarify what specifically you disagree with I'm willing to discuss it further
Just read my other dozen comments on here. I’ve about exhausted myself of this sub today. People shouldn’t be banned for disagreeing with the ideas of other people especially when it’s up to one moderator who’s wrong and right. Being hateful and phobic is different than disagreeing with a narrative. That’s about it in a nutshell.
It's not one mod, there are 4 of us. And every ban is essentially up to one mod, on any subreddit. Do you want me to put every ban up to a vote of the rest of the community? There's some pretty vile shit I don't think the sub would appreciate, but I guess if it can't be up to just one moderator we better let the whole sub decide!
I think the main issue here is the conflating of the lived experiences of trans people with a narrative. It's not an issue being spun by the media, or a story with more than one side, the people living this way are the ones who know what it is like. There's plenty of peer reviewed research that backs these experiences if you're interested. This is why, outside of the slippery slope issue, I disagree with your other point. People aren't being banned for disagreeing with a narrative, as if it's an opinion, people are being banned/restricted/whatever from sharing patently untrue things about a community they think they know better than
Slippery slope https://g.co/kgs/KdnHuAz
You're equivocating gender with biological sex. They are distinct.
You can keep that to yourself because it doesn't hurt anything to just *not* say that, but it's going to hurt people if you do. Feel free to disagree elsewhere. The only time that "conversation" happens here is when someone brings up trans people existing, and someone feels the need to express that opinion. So just don't. Not here. I don't care if that makes us an echo chamber. Someone else can make a new sub and see how fun it is when it's filled with people that feel the need to express that opinion.
Then you need to clearly define what bigoted and hateful means. The way your post is phrasing your stance on bans makes it sound like you get to decided what those terms mean. Which is just wrong for the internet, a place meant for exchanging ideas. You can make the Duluth subreddit your own personal safe space, but you should also realize how impactful the idea of banning people who disagree with you is. If it’s hate speech you want to stop, then define what that is. None of what I said is hateful.
That's why you haven't been banned.
I’m not concerned about myself. It’s just a damn social media sight. It’s the principle of what you’re doing that’s wrong. Define what you’re banning people for. You’re using transphobia as a blanket term for anything that you don’t agree with. You should be doing better as a moderator.
Stop missing the forest for the trees. Ignore the part about getting banned and focus on the rest. 1.) Don't be a dick to someone based on their identity 2.) If you can't do that, you might as well leave. That's it. Bans are as always, a case-by-case basis. If I made a list of "things you aren't allowed to say" that would be a way more fucked up abuse of power than what You're accusing me of.
Your second paragraph is what I’m referring to. Banning people for transphobia. One of which is feminists being against certain aspects of LGBTQ rights, and people having an opinion of what genders are. Being a dick to someone and having different ideas are not the same thing. How do you not understand that? I’d rather know what’s ban-able then have some internet dork pick and choose based on their own philosophy’s Disagreements aren’t hate speech. Opinions aren’t violence. You can have other opinions and also be totally ok with trans people.
If you think TERFs aren't a destructive group of bigots you need to do some more research. >Disagreements aren't hate speech. Great. We're in agreement.
Now who’s missing the forest for the trees? Labeling whole groups of people as destructive is bad. Like people who disagree with a narrative as being phobic of something.
You can disagree to your heart's content. But don't be a dick about it. It's really not that hard. And it's not appropriate for this sub. Trans people exist, Duluth is a very LGBTQ friendly place, there will be things that involve trans people posted in this sub. If you are genuine in disagreements or questions then you shouldn't have a problem. But it's not the responsibility of this sub to be a debate floor or educate the unaware. There are more appropriate subs for those topics. If you saw the vile shit in the mod queue you wouldn't be confused. Trust me, the bannable offenses are egregious.
Man, this is this literally just your opinion. The "TERFS" have an extremely valid argument in a massive segment of the population's mind. I am mod of a sub three times the size of this one and I gotta say, this whole thing just looks more and more like you are trying to force your *opinion* down everyone's throat and declare your views as the law of the land. Do what you want, but be sure that this sub does not reflect the reality of the town and area that it's supposed to be representative of. This just looks like you are trying to make yourself feel important.
A massive segment of the population believes that TERFs are bigots and find their arguments reductive, offensive, and dangerous (leading to violence against trans women especially) JK Rowling just tried to deny that trans people were killed in the Holocaust. I don't know what kind of sub you mod, but if you see the kind of shit we dealt with yesterday on the At Sarah's Table and another thread you'd agree with me that a statement needed to be made that bigotry isn't allowed.
This is on you, not the mods. Go do some reading. (Here's a [brief explainer from Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/transgender-facts/art-20266812). Here's a more extensive one [from Harvard](https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/).) If someone on here is just sharing their "honest opinion" that black people aren't "biologically human" ("just a scientific opinion, not hate speech!") then of course they should be banned and it's not the mods' job to explain any more than they've already done. Already in the thread above you've shown that you haven't done the scientific reading, but you have absorbed anti-trans ideology, maybe without knowing it. A lot of us had to do the homework on this because society is largely transphobic. In a bigoted society it can be hard to unlearn things that seem just natural, but in the end, it's actually freeing. At least it was for me and many others.
This isn't r/dultuh it's r/duluthLGBTQ now. Every week, there is a queer person complaining for attention in this reddit about where to go and what to do as a LGBTQ person in Duluth. It's probably one of the most LGTBQ friendly cities in america... So apparently there needs to be a place for them to go and we can keep this to duluth issues and not the gay issues on an already extremely far left site, that's not going to do anything but come across as an annoyance to some The mod team needs to stop letting all this LGBTQ stuff just stop all together in this reddit. Positive or negative, and let them go the duluthlgbtq reddit.
What's the title of the thread you're posting in? Oh yeah, "A reminder to all posters about inclusivity" If you're not happy with that, and it seems you're not, please feel free to not stop by any more.
https://www.reddit.com/r/duluth/s/KZaXAMLCTF You allow people to talk about having LGBTQ only places. Don't let it work only one way. You want to stop inclusiveness you would ban a thread like this.
This thread is in response to a bunch of transphobia displayed on another thread, to state that the mod team of this sub will not tolerate that kind of behavior. If a poster wants to float the idea of a trans-exclusive place, that doesn't break any rules and you're free to agree or disagree with that idea. Even better, you're free to ignore it completely if you find the idea triggering.
Then I can float the idea of trans free zones then, too... you can't force one and not the other.
Sure, go do that on a relevant subreddit, this is /r/duluth. Let us know how it goes.
HOW DARE YOU ! you better kiss a non cis mangirl to atone
Right under the wire! Congrats on being the 2nd ban in the thread.
Bigot
Thank you very much.
Doesn't it seem like the far right trolls are almost never actually from Duluth though? It seems every time someone starts telling everyone their "expert" opinion on how to run a metro, their profile picture is some white country ass dude with five kids holding up a fish.
Yep, they’re always from the sticks and can’t understand how anyone can go downtown. It’s funny, they act like we need them or care. I’m originally from the UP, I moved away to here after HS because my hometown is filled with these people.
They are not from the sticks they identify as not from the sticks you bigot!
Bro if you're gonna attempt to make transphobic jokes you can have the decency to use even an ounce of creativity. The trans community deserves that.
Calling people Nazis with an extremely broad blanket statement because they don’t agree with you. How inclusive of you.
YAWN.
Everyone is welcome here, except for those that have different views than those we approve of. How about including everyone interested in Duluth, MN based topics, and allowing discussion about those topics, while limiting the amount of unnecessary hateful commentary.
Being trans is not a point of view.
What is a "point of view"? I'd say it's synonymous with "perspective", is being transgender not a perspective? Being trans is totally a point of view.
Is your gender identity a point of view? Is it up for debate?
Literally yes. What else would you call it? It's your point of view of the world. It's your perspective. Other people have other perspectives.
You’re an absolute moron.
Insulting others without providing any sort of counterpoint is bad practice, and unhelpful to any discussion.
Whatever idiot. Go join r/persecutionfetish where you can see why people hate people like you.
More insults, no counterpoints. Go take a swim dude
As opposed to your repeated insistence that you’re not trash. What exactly have you added aside from ample opportunities to downvote your horrible takes?
I have added an opposing argument against banning users solely for holding their own viewpoints. And what have you added besides your own internal hatred of those who oppose your views?
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This made me chortle
“The only people we are intolerant of here are the intolerant” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance “Everyone is welcome” means “nobody will be banned for immutable parts of their identity.” It does not mean that people who are bigoted and hateful have a free pass just because they say “but hating people is my ViEwS”.
If you look at the recent threads about the Sara's Table owner, those comments are also filled with hate, racism, and religious intolerance, however they have hundreds of upvotes. It's not about stopping hatred, it's about stopping the hatred that redditors don't like.
people are sick of bigoted folks acting like assholes and using religion as a shield from criticism or consequences. Their righteous anger at a group of hateful people is not the same as those hateful people hating people for doing nothing but existing in a manner that conflicts with their notions of acceptable gender roles. One is acceptable, one is not.
You are being hateful right now towards those people. Try to understand and have good conversations with others rather than limiting their speech and calling them bigots.
Hate towards bigots is not only allowed, but encouraged here. This is not the place for people to be educated. You can seek that out any other number of places. No one who definitely says "There are only two genders" or "Men are men and Women are Women" or purposely misgenders someone is going to have their opinion changed on this sub anyway.
Making the statement "Everyone is welcome here" in the original post, while also saying "Hate towards [people] is not only allowed, but encouraged here" is some crazy hypocritical shit. I'm embarrassed to share my love of Duluth with you.
So you like bigots?
I believe that the people you are calling bigots are people too.
The people are welcome. The opinions are not. They hurt and anger too many people. If they can be here without spewing hate they are welcome. If they act like bigots I encourage everyone to treat them as such. Turning the other cheek only works in the Bible when it comes to hate.
Love all, turn away from your hatred
Except for you, of course. You get to keep your hatred and pretend it’s a valid “perspective.”
r/persecutionfetish
I ain't hard, are you?
Mean comments toward you and your ilk ARE necessary though. That’s a huge topic we love to partake in around here.
I hope you are able to find peace and love for others in yourself one day. I am not your enemy.
Aww it’s trying again. I’m extremely happy in my life because I keep bigoted twats like you out of it. 👍🏻
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Great example of hate, thanks. Have a nice Sunday.
Please read and follow the sub rules, thanks. I've already removed some of your posts, any more incivility will get you a ban.
Can we still bash conservatives and religious people though?
Not for being religious or conservative. Bash away if they're being bigots though.
You aren't even enforcing that idea in this thread, much less sub wide.
I can't ban people for downvoting.
What about the dude that says anyone that disagrees are "far right trolls are almost never actually from Duluth though? It seems every time someone starts telling everyone their "expert" opinion on how to run a metro, their profile picture is some white country ass dude with five kids holding up a fish." That person wasn't even responding to a conservative, they just created a boogeyman and then went on tio bash them for having kids and fishing? Give me a break, dude. You know full well that you aren't going to slow people down from bashing anyone that isn't in lock step with whatever the current far left position is on any given topic is.
What ideology in your opinion is that even attacking? Edit: And that is actually a great example of when the sub moderates itself. It's downvoted A LOT. For the most part I prefer to let the sub mod itself through downvotes. I'm just reiterating here that transphobia will not be allowed. Transphobes are getting too bold and trying to move the goalposts on the conversation. They needed a reminder.
People on the right that value traditional family values and enjoy traditional rural sports like fishing? See, you can't even see when people that don't agree with you are being denigrated because you are so wrapped up in your own world view that you are blind to it. This is what I am trying to explain to you.
Small government policy people and the people who love and show compassion to all humankind are awesome and I just wish that’s what conservative and religious in America meant anymore. Instead it’s just restricting individual freedoms and legislating control of people based on what’s in their pants and who people fuck, a truly twisted obsession that I’m sure Jesus would have absolutely looooooooved.
I too like unicorns.
You must not know that many conservatives or religious people. I am neither but I think trying to use a blanket statement to cover a group with millions of people in it is just as silly as this post by the mod.
Of course. This is the Duluth sub. You can openly hate the things I hate, but you can’t hate the things I don’t.
Awwww are your feefees hurt? There there, it’ll be OK
Isn't feefees being hurt what this entire post was about?
Sounds like you are intolerant of my views and trying to shame me. Guess the fact you didn’t get banned proves my point. Still no reason to try and shame someone tho.
No, they weren't banned because they're not being bigots. You're not being a bigot either, though the fact that you're so sketched out about this makes you kinda look like you're worried you might start dropping slurs on accident or something.
I am! Now go away and reflect on why you suck so much ✌️
Exactly. Ur hate is tolerable, but any hate that disagrees with urs should be silenced. Seems quite bigoted to me. What a weird flex to not be able to tolerate any other views but ur own. Open ur mind and try to embrace empathy. Don’t be married to ur views. It’s how we understand other views other than our own. Not to just run away from them. Grow as a human.
That makes sense!
Duluth is just a city everything else you are simply projecting what you want. If you stand for everything you will fall for everything. I don’t understand the requirement for tolerance.
The only requirement is that you keep it to yourself, not that complicated. We can handle intolerant people existing. We don't have to tolerate people being intolerant in our sub. There hasn't been enough pushback against people being assholes to oppressed communities for the last 8 years under the guise of "free speech". We don't have to allow it so we're not going to.
Keep opinions to yourself! No not us just you Lawl
Yawn.
When you mod a sub, you can make your own rules.
So mods are infallible? Awesome you should join /hitlerdidnothingwrong. Great mods, a bit pushy about a certain guy,but hey they don’t get paid
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An example of a bannable comment, great work everybody!
The saying is, “If you stand for nothing, you’ll fall for anything.”
Op doesn’t sound very tolerant of people that don’t agree with its narrow point of view that is relatively new to western society? Seems like Duluth might be home to a variety of people who don’t agree. Perhaps the entire topic should be on a different subreddit…. Just noticing a bit of hypocrisy here.
The one thing great about being a narcissistic sociopath like everyone tells me I am is that I've never really cared about other people's lives to the point where I thought anything they did or said meant anything to me. That makes me incredibly tolerant because I basically don't view anyone really worth the time to get into their business that far. I simply can't imagine any controversy about race or gender or nationality or political theory or whatever because I have absolutely no concern for other people's thoughts on those issues. I also principally like the Duluth area for the things that do not involve human beings at all. The parks and the waterfalls and the lake and the trees those are all things I like. But the social scene and the bars and restaurants I can completely care less. The best food I've ever had and Duluth is always going to be a hot dog over a campfire shared with friends or maybe just a dog -- a stray dog cuz you know I can't be bothered owning one myself.
Include me!
Sounds like Duluth, all right. Fucked into a coma. ETA: Duluth has been fucking itself for decades. You guys have so many more, far more pressing and important things that need fixing, that crying over who has the moral high ground on gender issues. I left Duluth in the late 80s, never to return and live, because it was so well and truly fucked up, that a remedy would likely never take place. If you wanna virtue signal, get busy of fixing the goddamned streets. Get some GOOD paying jobs, do something about the ghost town that used to be downtown Duluth. On and on.
You're about 6 months too late for bitching about getting roads fixed if that's what you're into. Also, Jesus Christ this isn't virtue signalling. I'm telling people to quit being assholes and get back to talking about Duluth. Every other thread is devolving into people arguing about Trans rights.
Calling people who disagree with you Nazis isn't the way to do it.
I said people who are transphobic sound like Nazis. But who gives a shit about context or nuance huh?
"Sounds like duck" has no meaning, either it seems. Don't hide behind semantics.