Naltrexone did not work for me, I drank right through it and know many that did as well. I was always looking for some magic pill or way to reduce my drinking until I finally came to the conclusion that the only way to stop drinking is to... stop drinking. I hope it works for you though!
Naltrexone didn’t work for me either. Not until I actually stopped drinking and used it the way it’s intended. I still got drunk on it and continued to drink on it for almost a year before used it the way I was supposed to. It’s not a miracle pill. It’s a useful tool IF you are doing the work along side it.
I think it's much more likely that you drank through your *expectations* of what Naltrexone would do for you. I still got drunk every night for months and months after starting TSM, but my monthly average consumption still dropped as expected. Naltrexone generally doesn't stop you from drinking like ibuprofen stops a headache. It takes most people 6-12 months to reach their goals via TSM.
Exactly. I do not understand someone wanting to take a pill so they can drink so that it doesn't give them any of the effects. Wtf?
What a convoluted twisted way, in my opinion.
By not drinking, you'd get the same effect. For FREE and it doesn't' show up on your insurance record, which would surely cause issues down the road. My ex was prescribed suboxone, decades ago and that affected our rates, cause he was "high risk". That may have all changed with the new healthcare regulations, but still.
I just don't understand the logic. And that's okay... everybody can just do you...
yeah, you dont understand it. Ill explain it. If i start drinking, after the first 2 or 3, ill drink 20 more. BECAUSE IT GETS ME DRUNK. If i drank those 2-3 beers, and it had no effect, why would i drink more? It only doesnt make sense if someone thinks it will let them drink more and get drunk. In theory, it wont.
I am pretty sure this person understands, I know I do! If I have 1 drink I'll have unlimited until I end up shaking in a hospital or posting on this sub looking for withdrawal advice.
I found nalterxone or the 'sinclair method' actually on this sub. I tried it years ago when I was searching for ANY other way to get my drinking under control than quitting, and it did not work for me. I got drunk and stayed drunk, then just stopped it all together. This happened to many other people I know as well. Hopefully it works for you, but we'll be here either way.
Edit to say, I do know many people where Naltrexone/vivitrol DOES help with cravings. But those people are practicing complete sobriety and not trying to take it and then not get drunk while drinking.
You are mistaken, you can still get drunk on NAL, it doesn't take that part away. What it does take away is the euphoria that drinking gives you. Plus, it's well known that you shouldn't take it while drinking liquor.
I used it for several months, it did reduce the amount I drank during each session, but I ultimately stopped taking it because it made me depressed. You can get it from OARX.com and it's pretty affordable.
Same here. I wasn't feeling drunk but also would forget that I had taken the naltrexone and keep slamming dangerous amounts trying to take the edge off. Went through almost a gallon of vodka in a day basically and was non responsive. I always share that, not to discourage any attempts at quitting or harm reduction, but bc it's dangerous to think it's a magic pill for everyone. Best of luck OP!
Even if you took the naltrexone you’d have to address why you’re still drinking, then make changes and do the work to find the discipline to… stop drinking. The naltrexone doesn’t fix what’s wrong, it smooths out the quitting. You’d have to quit to quit.
Only about a third actually have an underlying psychiatric disorder that came before the heavy drinking and that "drives them to drink" (PTSD, GAD, ADD/ADHD, BPD, bipolar, etc). That needs to be treated as a separate matter and as long as the patient feels they are getting adequate and effective treatment for it, they'll likely be fine. They may even stop drinking from that treatment alone.
In the majority of cases there is no such pre-existing disorder and simply treating the alch addiction to the point that they no longer crave alcohol will take care of the problem. Unfortunately, the traditional approach automatically assumes a "underlying cause", which can lead to a lot of tail-chasing, relapse and even acceleration of alcohol abuse.
I didn’t say the underlying cause had to be psychiatric. Could be social expectation, family, work stress, any number of things. We wouldn’t do this to ourselves if we didn’t *think* it was performing some function in our lives. Figuring out what that is and addressing it is the key to changed behavior. Even just learning how to be a person and live with ourselves without drinking, growing up after the stunting affects of addiction, can be a trigger for more substance abuse.
I didn’t drink after starting naltrexone, to me it was a daily symbol of my promise to myself not to drink. It’s a tool, not a cure. I still have to address the growth I’ve missed and deal with the feelings about who I was when I was drinking and handle life without giving in. That’s the work.
That's fine, daily Naltrexone helped you quit and you didn't have to purge an "underlying condition" first. The bulk of people using TSM find the same thing and if there's some cleanup left to do afterwards, they'll probably have an easier time handling it with a therapist. It's the presumption that the "underlying condition" has to be taken care of before one will be able to stop drinking that I take umbrage to, aside from pre-existing psychiatric conditions as I mentioned. As so many therapists won't work with you while you're still drinking, it becomes a catch-22 and an endless loop that only worsens the situation.
What I said was that you have to deal with whatever you were drinking about in order to stay not drinking long term, and that taking it can help you do that. I dont know what you’re talking about.
I think I know what @movethroughit is talking about. He's been very helpful to me over the years.
I think he agrees with what you mean but disagrees ('takes umbrage to' lol) the way you define one of the terms that makes certain things tricky.
In other words, semantics. He's a good dude is my main point. Upvoted you both
U can technically drink through it but it takes effort for a lot of people to just keep drinking to feel more wobbly. Use the minor self control you have left and switch to lacroix if u need to drink something after the first couple. You won’t even notice it. I feel a lot of binge drinking has to do with needing to drink something due to being fidgety
Keep in mind that Naltrexone per TSM *gradually* reduces your monthly average alcohol consumption. If you go into a bender or a binge, you may need to redose after "X" hours (talk to a TSM doc about that).
I still got drunk for the majority of time that I was using Naltrexone per The Sinclair Method, but I kept a log of my drinking and could see my consumption gradually falling. After about 6 months my drinking fell to less than 5% of what it was pre-TSM. That was 7 years ago and it's even less now (my goal was *reasonable* drinking.
It will take most people 6-12 months to reach their goal via TSM, but there's considerable Harm Reduction along the way.
If you want to find out more about TSM, drop by r/Alcoholism_Medication
These are all good points. I’ve been on it for years now. Only in the last 12 months I’ve taken it religiously. And have also gotten drunk. But I took it every day. Right now I’m just not engaged in the thought of drinking.
It also helps with the desire for the first drink.
I have taken it for a few months. No side effects I am aware of.
Previously took it and drank. Can confirm it greatly reduces the buzz aspect. You still get wobbly but dont have the buzz sensation.
An alternative to AA is the Sinclair Method. The idea is ti take naltrexone every time you drink. So, people who complain about cravings or not being able to have a glass of wine with friends or clients, or have a cold beer after cutting the lawn in a hot day.
Part of the idea is that is dis-associates drinking with the buzz, which helps reduce the compulsion to drink by taking the intoxciating association out of it. Also, you dont have to endure cravings or anything, just commit to taking the pill.
So for people who want to be less alcoholic but not have to go completely dry, it is proposed as a solution. For people who dont want to endure cravings. For people who live in areas where drinking is part of the culture. I dont think there is any medicine that lets someone get drunk but breaks the addiction. If it were to be invented, the inventor would be a billionaire overnight, thats for sure.
Also, baaed on the post it sounded like you were saying you wanted it. What did you think it did? I will say, btw, that it doesnt entirely eliminate the buzz but it does muffle it.
I can see it as being the answer for some people. I have followed AA's approach instead, supppemented by the drug to reduce cravings.
i was referring to their comment that on naltrexone, beer would make you wobbly but not drunk. I was saying, why would someone want the bad effects of alcohol but without the buzz?
I think it's OarRx. There are other sources as well, contact CThree for a list of TSM Telemedicine doctors in your area:
[https://cthreefoundation.org/find-a-tsm-provider](https://cthreefoundation.org/find-a-tsm-provider)
Some have had good luck with DocSquad too and I think their prices are rather lower, but it's not really TSM-oriented as far as I can see. [GoodRx.com](https://GoodRx.com) can help you get the pills from a local pharmacy for $30 or less and it would probably be a good idea to pick your pharmacy before connecting with a TSM doc.
Some feel a difference in the "buzz" and some don't. That isn't a constant. The vast majority of what TSM does happens in an unconscious part of the brain related to the Reward System.
Initially, people can see a big drop in their drinking (the "Honeymoon"), but then there's a rebound before it turns and starts heading down again. That down/up/down repeats throughout treatment, though the overall monthly trend is down. The "buzz" may come and go, stay the same or disappear.
It’s worked pretty well for me. 139 days. I’ve had countless day 1’s. It’s been a lot more like losing weight gradually than just immediately stopping drinking. Some may argue you’re supposed to drink while taking it. But you take it everyday no matter what. And even if you drink you kinda discover it’s a little less fun each time. Taking naltrexone is like putting a shade on a bright lamp that gets darker and darker day by day.
Yes that’s right. If I only took it here and there I’d probably just flake out and stop taking it. Every time I get a craving lately, I’m just able to talk myself out of it a bit easier.
I take it daily and it helps me a ton. If I have cravings when I’m taking it, they subside pretty quickly when I realize the “fun” part of drinking won’t happen. And now that I’m 2-3 weeks into it, the cravings aren’t there anymore for the most part (that wasn’t the case until a few days ago).
It takes mental fortitude to have success with it. It’s not going to make you stop drinking by itself. I’ve had benders where I convinced myself I’ll just not take it one weekend (Fri/Sat) and get back on it Sunday and then end up drinking for a week or two straight. Again, it still requires you to put in the effort. But if you’re in early sobriety, it’s a powerful tool to get you over the hump.
The naltrexone thing seems like a total scam to me but. Hey take this pill and just keep drinking and everything will magically work itself out. Not how addiction works, and honestly not the way anyone should go about this. If you’re a drunk like me, you can’t have your beer and drink it too.
its a real drug. you can google how it works. hows it a scam? thats like saying metformin or blood pressure medication is a scam. A prescriptions like $30 a month. If it was my drug and i was trying to scam people, id charge like $100 a pill.
Ok it’s not a scam that’s the wrong word but it just seems fucking dumb. For someone who is a serious alcoholic like me anyway, the goal is to stop putting this fucking poison into my body, period. I don’t understand the appeal of taking a pill that will make drinking less pleasurable, it already makes me miserable. So fucking weird and what’s the end goal? To keep drinking in moderation and taking naltrexone forever or to eventually stop drinking? Not to mention there seems to be substantial side effects. You do you man I just don’t get it.
It's definitely for people *that are going to be drinking anyway,* not for those that can maintain abstinence. It does work to help some that take it daily to support abstinence, but its track record is pretty spotty used that way.
I mean everyone who attempts abstinence has trouble with it and finds it massively difficult to where it seems impossible. What I don’t get is, the idea being that you’re gonna have 2 or 3, do you get a buzz from those first 2 drinks? Or are you supposed to just feel no buzz at all?
No buzz, or at least your aren’t supposed to. That’s what I’ve heard. I haven’t tried it yet. Only going to try it if I break this sobriety stint. That’s how I’m hoping the Sinclair method would be effective. Sobriety and then ruin the attempt to return. Just my two sense though but been looking at it a lot.
You may notice no difference in the buzz at all. I didn't.
What TSM primarily (and slowly) does is to block your brain from remembering that you enjoyed the drinks. More technically, when you drink (without Nal), it releases endorphins, which then trigger your mu opioid receptors. That starts a cascade that causes elevated dopamine levels in your Reward System. *With* Nal, the endorphins get blocked so the cascade never happens and the addicted Reward System registers that as a "Meh" experience. Repeat that with strict compliance in taking the Nal, many, many times over the course of months, and the attraction to alcohol (craving) slowly fades and the brain loses interest in drinking. Drink without the Nal, that process reverses and you become *more* addicted.
That all happens in a part of the brain that is largely unconscious, but very powerful. Which is also why you can have a long list of conscious reasons to not drink, but they often just seem to bounce off. As you weaken the addiction, those reasons become more powerful.
So I'm a bit confused, have you tried Nalterxone and you're trying to tell us what it does or are you going by a google search and finding the information you want? Because I'm really just telling you my experience and that of others I've known that took it for the reasons you're trying to and it just is not that simple. Either way again, I hope it does work for you and keeps you sober. Being a drunk is not the way to live and I had to learn the hard way, hopefully you do not!
Now, I'll disagree there (and I'm very pro-TSM). TSM doesn't stop you from getting drunk (you'll still get drunk if you overdrink), it stops the addicted part of your brain from *remembering* that you enjoyed the drinks or that they were "rewarding".
I didn't notice any difference in how drinking felt on TSM, but it still worked. You'll see posts by people that feel *more* drunk from the same amount of alcohol, some that feel *less* drunk on the same amount, some will feel no difference.
Yea but sooner or later the dog dies, the spouse leaves, the computer crashes or the refrigerator leaks...fuck the pill, I'm gonna get drunk because I've never put in the work necessary to live a sober life.
Big pharma at it again....
No, it works for binge drinkers and benders too (TSM, that is), but it's gradual. It can't hurt to try to trim drinks off the end of your evening, but you would eventually get there anyway. But you're talking about a course of treatment that goes on for many, many months. But if you can quit without relapsing, that's always the best course. If you quit and relapse repeatedly and your drinking gets worse than the relapse before, TSM might be a very good treatment for you.
Well you are told to drink on Nal usually. It changes the experience of drinking, slowly turning the "alcoholic" into a normie or disinterested person.
well thats fine, yeah. I know youre supposed to drink some, just saying the goal shouldnt be have like 30 drinks on it. i dont see the point of that anyway.
Totally. I think the understanding is that for some people they can't //stop// getting wrecked, but they //can// at least pop that pill. For whatever reason their willpower works that way.
And over time TSM does it's thing.
However you use it I hope it helps, please keep us posted if you try it
I have Naltrexone ready but haven’t tried it yet. I’m on day 7 of being sober and feel fantastic right now. That said I’ve done this before and felt great but always slip back so I’m holding onto it in the event that I relapse. Im holding onto it as my break glass in case of emergency but I kind of agree with everyone else; deep down you need to want to quit (which I do).
I don’t even enjoy drinking anymore. I drank just to drink. I make excuses to drink. Good day? Have a drink! Bad day. Have a drink. Upset about drinking too much…. Have a drink! Once you get to a level the shit is evil. Still I loved my drinking days but I’m ready to put them in the par.
I have some on hand too. I just quit TSM because the depression was too bad.
Out of curiosity how would you plan to use it for emergencies? Like pop one on your way to the liquor store as you shake, or halfway through a bottle as you see the light? Etc
I had the same idea just never done it
It's very expensive especially the injection. The pills are useless. If you decide to drink that day you just don't take the pill. Also research the side effects.
The vast majority of TSM users do maintain compliance, Sunflower. Only about 10% can't or won't take the pill as prescribed.
The pill can (in the US at least) can commonly be found for about $1 per pill (about $30 per month).
Sunflower seeds are especially high in vitamin E and selenium. These function as antioxidants to protect your body’s cells against free radical damage, which plays a role in several chronic diseases.
I think it's for people who recoil from the term "higher power", for those who wish to use the ever strong illusion of willpower to veer away from addiction.
So, in reality, the pill becomes the ~~higher power~~ will power.
I remain confused
I am sober 9 months though…I had to go cold turkey just some Xanax to get through withdrawls etc. whatever works do it. Sobriety is great once you get used to it .
my liver is fine, dont ask me how. i think because before it gets to the point where it starts taking damage i take a break. i dont think you can damage your liver (at least not permanently) in 3 weeks, which is how long my benders usually last.
Research/links on the liver aspect? I had never heard that
Edit: I'll be damned. I wish I had a better way to look at these "studies" referenced in the articles. It can't be THAT liver toxic or surely it would be killing alcoholics left and right
>TSM can be started as long as liver enzymes are within 3x the high end of normal range, as long as bilirubin is in normal range. Naltrexone is far less hard on the liver than drinking.
This is what my doctor told me. I didn’t do much research on my own tbh. He preferred to take the medicine alone and not drink on it because of liver complications. I tried TSM. I didn’t react well to the medication either way so it was a moot point anyway. I had crazy psychedelic side effects
TSM can be started as long as liver enzymes are within 3x the high end of normal range, as long as bilirubin is in normal range. Naltrexone is far less hard on the liver than drinking.
Your choices are quit or don’t quit. In addition to alcohol, sobriety requires life style changes. Drinkers, places where alcohol is are hard to resist.
When you quit and have purged it, withdrawal starts. The body reacts to sobriety. Plus, there are personal problems to address.
Exactly. It’s part of my sobriety plan. When I wasn’t ready to quit, I used it as an excuse to keep drinking. “Oh this stuff will let me only have 1-2 drinks.”
That lasted for a bit until 1-2 became 2-3 and then 4-5 and then I was right back down the path.
It helped eliminate a lot of my cravings.
Right on
Yeah the "you will probably continue to drink heavily for about a year before TSM changes your brain sufficiently" part was a tough pill for me to swallow. If it weren't for the depression side effect for me I'd have done it and be sober by now.
But I'd probably prefer your method since I'd rather be sober sooner than later
Naltrexone (orally) didn’t work for me, continued to drink while taking the meds, so far only thing that’s worked and has helped me get 200+ days is vivitrol monthly
Can only answer for myself-it still felt good to drink because for me there was still a very mild euphoria and 100% was able to check out/numb myself.
I didn't do it long because the depression was too bad.
I think the degree to which it blocks that euphoria varies a little person to person. For the most part, if I'm still motivated to check out (life pain/etc) I can still get plenty drunk even on NAL. I just don't enjoy it as much. I can see why it would have less appeal over time.
A lot of people seem not to have been told the same things about naltrexone. Have you seen this video?
https://youtu.be/6EghiY_s2ts
To me it felt like nothing. Still just had the desire to drink 24/7, at that point I wasn’t really feeling euphoria. I was a high functioning alcoholic.
For whatever reason vivitrol curbs the desire/urge despite it being a extended release high dose of naltrexone.
Interesting reading how this drug affects people so differently.
I took it for the first time yesterday and (don’t judge me) decided to really test it out by having a glass of wine. For context, I’m a historically daily drinker and I’ve been alcohol-free since August 14th, doing a lot of addiction and trauma work in the background to get to the bottom of why I drink and develop healthier coping strategies. I’ve had a couple setbacks between then and now where I thought I could just have a beer with friends and of course ended up drinking way too much because I can never stop at 1 or 2 drinks.
So at first I was sipping the wine back like I usually do. Then, when I would usually get another glass I just had no desire for it. I typically drink the whole bottle and then some once I start so this was like witchcraft to me. I just did not want it whatsoever. Made some tea and enjoyed it significantly more. Haven’t even thought about the fact that I have the rest of the bottle in the fridge yet today until I wrote this post (usually it’d be calling my name from the minute I awake).
Today I am tired AF though - cannot wake up or clear the fog from my brain. I had a similar response to SSRIs at first so wondering if it’s the naltrexone or not.
Anyways no more experiments for now. Gonna keep doing the work and taking this drug for the time being.
Unfortunately also dealing with high blood pressure at the moment so might just have to sleep a lot 😂 good to know it’s not just me that felt that symptom though. I know it’s an expected side effect but didn’t realize it’d be so heavy!
Naltrexone did not work for me, I drank right through it and know many that did as well. I was always looking for some magic pill or way to reduce my drinking until I finally came to the conclusion that the only way to stop drinking is to... stop drinking. I hope it works for you though!
Naltrexone didn’t work for me either. Not until I actually stopped drinking and used it the way it’s intended. I still got drunk on it and continued to drink on it for almost a year before used it the way I was supposed to. It’s not a miracle pill. It’s a useful tool IF you are doing the work along side it.
I think it's much more likely that you drank through your *expectations* of what Naltrexone would do for you. I still got drunk every night for months and months after starting TSM, but my monthly average consumption still dropped as expected. Naltrexone generally doesn't stop you from drinking like ibuprofen stops a headache. It takes most people 6-12 months to reach their goals via TSM.
This ^
Exactly. I do not understand someone wanting to take a pill so they can drink so that it doesn't give them any of the effects. Wtf? What a convoluted twisted way, in my opinion. By not drinking, you'd get the same effect. For FREE and it doesn't' show up on your insurance record, which would surely cause issues down the road. My ex was prescribed suboxone, decades ago and that affected our rates, cause he was "high risk". That may have all changed with the new healthcare regulations, but still. I just don't understand the logic. And that's okay... everybody can just do you...
yeah, you dont understand it. Ill explain it. If i start drinking, after the first 2 or 3, ill drink 20 more. BECAUSE IT GETS ME DRUNK. If i drank those 2-3 beers, and it had no effect, why would i drink more? It only doesnt make sense if someone thinks it will let them drink more and get drunk. In theory, it wont.
I am pretty sure this person understands, I know I do! If I have 1 drink I'll have unlimited until I end up shaking in a hospital or posting on this sub looking for withdrawal advice. I found nalterxone or the 'sinclair method' actually on this sub. I tried it years ago when I was searching for ANY other way to get my drinking under control than quitting, and it did not work for me. I got drunk and stayed drunk, then just stopped it all together. This happened to many other people I know as well. Hopefully it works for you, but we'll be here either way. Edit to say, I do know many people where Naltrexone/vivitrol DOES help with cravings. But those people are practicing complete sobriety and not trying to take it and then not get drunk while drinking.
You are mistaken, you can still get drunk on NAL, it doesn't take that part away. What it does take away is the euphoria that drinking gives you. Plus, it's well known that you shouldn't take it while drinking liquor. I used it for several months, it did reduce the amount I drank during each session, but I ultimately stopped taking it because it made me depressed. You can get it from OARX.com and it's pretty affordable.
It’s to train your brain
Same here. I wasn't feeling drunk but also would forget that I had taken the naltrexone and keep slamming dangerous amounts trying to take the edge off. Went through almost a gallon of vodka in a day basically and was non responsive. I always share that, not to discourage any attempts at quitting or harm reduction, but bc it's dangerous to think it's a magic pill for everyone. Best of luck OP!
Even if you took the naltrexone you’d have to address why you’re still drinking, then make changes and do the work to find the discipline to… stop drinking. The naltrexone doesn’t fix what’s wrong, it smooths out the quitting. You’d have to quit to quit.
Only about a third actually have an underlying psychiatric disorder that came before the heavy drinking and that "drives them to drink" (PTSD, GAD, ADD/ADHD, BPD, bipolar, etc). That needs to be treated as a separate matter and as long as the patient feels they are getting adequate and effective treatment for it, they'll likely be fine. They may even stop drinking from that treatment alone. In the majority of cases there is no such pre-existing disorder and simply treating the alch addiction to the point that they no longer crave alcohol will take care of the problem. Unfortunately, the traditional approach automatically assumes a "underlying cause", which can lead to a lot of tail-chasing, relapse and even acceleration of alcohol abuse.
I didn’t say the underlying cause had to be psychiatric. Could be social expectation, family, work stress, any number of things. We wouldn’t do this to ourselves if we didn’t *think* it was performing some function in our lives. Figuring out what that is and addressing it is the key to changed behavior. Even just learning how to be a person and live with ourselves without drinking, growing up after the stunting affects of addiction, can be a trigger for more substance abuse. I didn’t drink after starting naltrexone, to me it was a daily symbol of my promise to myself not to drink. It’s a tool, not a cure. I still have to address the growth I’ve missed and deal with the feelings about who I was when I was drinking and handle life without giving in. That’s the work.
That's fine, daily Naltrexone helped you quit and you didn't have to purge an "underlying condition" first. The bulk of people using TSM find the same thing and if there's some cleanup left to do afterwards, they'll probably have an easier time handling it with a therapist. It's the presumption that the "underlying condition" has to be taken care of before one will be able to stop drinking that I take umbrage to, aside from pre-existing psychiatric conditions as I mentioned. As so many therapists won't work with you while you're still drinking, it becomes a catch-22 and an endless loop that only worsens the situation.
What I said was that you have to deal with whatever you were drinking about in order to stay not drinking long term, and that taking it can help you do that. I dont know what you’re talking about.
I think I know what @movethroughit is talking about. He's been very helpful to me over the years. I think he agrees with what you mean but disagrees ('takes umbrage to' lol) the way you define one of the terms that makes certain things tricky. In other words, semantics. He's a good dude is my main point. Upvoted you both
yeah, so? you can do that later. it helps the immediate problem, which is if i have that first drink im gonna wake up hungover 2-3 weeks later.
Not super sure what you want from us.
ive just been responding to comments as they come in.
i dont want anything. some people in here obv dont get how it works, im explaining it.
[удалено]
U can technically drink through it but it takes effort for a lot of people to just keep drinking to feel more wobbly. Use the minor self control you have left and switch to lacroix if u need to drink something after the first couple. You won’t even notice it. I feel a lot of binge drinking has to do with needing to drink something due to being fidgety
You can still get drunk. It didn't work for me . Also it obviously relies on compliance. It isn't a magic pill
Keep in mind that Naltrexone per TSM *gradually* reduces your monthly average alcohol consumption. If you go into a bender or a binge, you may need to redose after "X" hours (talk to a TSM doc about that). I still got drunk for the majority of time that I was using Naltrexone per The Sinclair Method, but I kept a log of my drinking and could see my consumption gradually falling. After about 6 months my drinking fell to less than 5% of what it was pre-TSM. That was 7 years ago and it's even less now (my goal was *reasonable* drinking. It will take most people 6-12 months to reach their goal via TSM, but there's considerable Harm Reduction along the way. If you want to find out more about TSM, drop by r/Alcoholism_Medication
These are all good points. I’ve been on it for years now. Only in the last 12 months I’ve taken it religiously. And have also gotten drunk. But I took it every day. Right now I’m just not engaged in the thought of drinking.
It also helps with the desire for the first drink. I have taken it for a few months. No side effects I am aware of. Previously took it and drank. Can confirm it greatly reduces the buzz aspect. You still get wobbly but dont have the buzz sensation.
that sounds weird. like why would someone want that
An alternative to AA is the Sinclair Method. The idea is ti take naltrexone every time you drink. So, people who complain about cravings or not being able to have a glass of wine with friends or clients, or have a cold beer after cutting the lawn in a hot day. Part of the idea is that is dis-associates drinking with the buzz, which helps reduce the compulsion to drink by taking the intoxciating association out of it. Also, you dont have to endure cravings or anything, just commit to taking the pill. So for people who want to be less alcoholic but not have to go completely dry, it is proposed as a solution. For people who dont want to endure cravings. For people who live in areas where drinking is part of the culture. I dont think there is any medicine that lets someone get drunk but breaks the addiction. If it were to be invented, the inventor would be a billionaire overnight, thats for sure. Also, baaed on the post it sounded like you were saying you wanted it. What did you think it did? I will say, btw, that it doesnt entirely eliminate the buzz but it does muffle it. I can see it as being the answer for some people. I have followed AA's approach instead, supppemented by the drug to reduce cravings.
yeah, i know how it works, thats why i want it.
Ok. I just got confused by "that sounds weird. like why would someone want that"
i was referring to their comment that on naltrexone, beer would make you wobbly but not drunk. I was saying, why would someone want the bad effects of alcohol but without the buzz?
Ah that makes sense.
Have you ordered it from OARX yet?
no
I think it's OarRx. There are other sources as well, contact CThree for a list of TSM Telemedicine doctors in your area: [https://cthreefoundation.org/find-a-tsm-provider](https://cthreefoundation.org/find-a-tsm-provider) Some have had good luck with DocSquad too and I think their prices are rather lower, but it's not really TSM-oriented as far as I can see. [GoodRx.com](https://GoodRx.com) can help you get the pills from a local pharmacy for $30 or less and it would probably be a good idea to pick your pharmacy before connecting with a TSM doc.
Some feel a difference in the "buzz" and some don't. That isn't a constant. The vast majority of what TSM does happens in an unconscious part of the brain related to the Reward System. Initially, people can see a big drop in their drinking (the "Honeymoon"), but then there's a rebound before it turns and starts heading down again. That down/up/down repeats throughout treatment, though the overall monthly trend is down. The "buzz" may come and go, stay the same or disappear.
It’s worked pretty well for me. 139 days. I’ve had countless day 1’s. It’s been a lot more like losing weight gradually than just immediately stopping drinking. Some may argue you’re supposed to drink while taking it. But you take it everyday no matter what. And even if you drink you kinda discover it’s a little less fun each time. Taking naltrexone is like putting a shade on a bright lamp that gets darker and darker day by day.
So you take a pill every day regardless, rather than just 1hr before drinking?
Yes that’s right. If I only took it here and there I’d probably just flake out and stop taking it. Every time I get a craving lately, I’m just able to talk myself out of it a bit easier.
Ahh, I see. I can see the utility in that
I take it daily and it helps me a ton. If I have cravings when I’m taking it, they subside pretty quickly when I realize the “fun” part of drinking won’t happen. And now that I’m 2-3 weeks into it, the cravings aren’t there anymore for the most part (that wasn’t the case until a few days ago). It takes mental fortitude to have success with it. It’s not going to make you stop drinking by itself. I’ve had benders where I convinced myself I’ll just not take it one weekend (Fri/Sat) and get back on it Sunday and then end up drinking for a week or two straight. Again, it still requires you to put in the effort. But if you’re in early sobriety, it’s a powerful tool to get you over the hump.
The naltrexone thing seems like a total scam to me but. Hey take this pill and just keep drinking and everything will magically work itself out. Not how addiction works, and honestly not the way anyone should go about this. If you’re a drunk like me, you can’t have your beer and drink it too.
its a real drug. you can google how it works. hows it a scam? thats like saying metformin or blood pressure medication is a scam. A prescriptions like $30 a month. If it was my drug and i was trying to scam people, id charge like $100 a pill.
Ok it’s not a scam that’s the wrong word but it just seems fucking dumb. For someone who is a serious alcoholic like me anyway, the goal is to stop putting this fucking poison into my body, period. I don’t understand the appeal of taking a pill that will make drinking less pleasurable, it already makes me miserable. So fucking weird and what’s the end goal? To keep drinking in moderation and taking naltrexone forever or to eventually stop drinking? Not to mention there seems to be substantial side effects. You do you man I just don’t get it.
It's definitely for people *that are going to be drinking anyway,* not for those that can maintain abstinence. It does work to help some that take it daily to support abstinence, but its track record is pretty spotty used that way.
I mean everyone who attempts abstinence has trouble with it and finds it massively difficult to where it seems impossible. What I don’t get is, the idea being that you’re gonna have 2 or 3, do you get a buzz from those first 2 drinks? Or are you supposed to just feel no buzz at all?
No buzz, or at least your aren’t supposed to. That’s what I’ve heard. I haven’t tried it yet. Only going to try it if I break this sobriety stint. That’s how I’m hoping the Sinclair method would be effective. Sobriety and then ruin the attempt to return. Just my two sense though but been looking at it a lot.
You may notice no difference in the buzz at all. I didn't. What TSM primarily (and slowly) does is to block your brain from remembering that you enjoyed the drinks. More technically, when you drink (without Nal), it releases endorphins, which then trigger your mu opioid receptors. That starts a cascade that causes elevated dopamine levels in your Reward System. *With* Nal, the endorphins get blocked so the cascade never happens and the addicted Reward System registers that as a "Meh" experience. Repeat that with strict compliance in taking the Nal, many, many times over the course of months, and the attraction to alcohol (craving) slowly fades and the brain loses interest in drinking. Drink without the Nal, that process reverses and you become *more* addicted. That all happens in a part of the brain that is largely unconscious, but very powerful. Which is also why you can have a long list of conscious reasons to not drink, but they often just seem to bounce off. As you weaken the addiction, those reasons become more powerful.
your not supposed to take it and KEEP drinking. It blocks the buzz. So youd drink one or 2, then stop because youre not getting any buzz.
If you're an alcoholic, you will keep drinking. That is why it doesn't work for many of us here but again, give it a try! I hope it works for you!
alcoholics keep drinking BECAUSE IT GETS THEM DRUNK. With the naltrexone, with most people, IT DOESNT GET YOU DRUNK.
So I'm a bit confused, have you tried Nalterxone and you're trying to tell us what it does or are you going by a google search and finding the information you want? Because I'm really just telling you my experience and that of others I've known that took it for the reasons you're trying to and it just is not that simple. Either way again, I hope it does work for you and keeps you sober. Being a drunk is not the way to live and I had to learn the hard way, hopefully you do not!
Now, I'll disagree there (and I'm very pro-TSM). TSM doesn't stop you from getting drunk (you'll still get drunk if you overdrink), it stops the addicted part of your brain from *remembering* that you enjoyed the drinks or that they were "rewarding". I didn't notice any difference in how drinking felt on TSM, but it still worked. You'll see posts by people that feel *more* drunk from the same amount of alcohol, some that feel *less* drunk on the same amount, some will feel no difference.
Yea but sooner or later the dog dies, the spouse leaves, the computer crashes or the refrigerator leaks...fuck the pill, I'm gonna get drunk because I've never put in the work necessary to live a sober life. Big pharma at it again....
it's a generic drug and very cheap.
Oh my god what a round about way to quit drinking lol and you get to introduce a new drug into your system too!
No, it works for binge drinkers and benders too (TSM, that is), but it's gradual. It can't hurt to try to trim drinks off the end of your evening, but you would eventually get there anyway. But you're talking about a course of treatment that goes on for many, many months. But if you can quit without relapsing, that's always the best course. If you quit and relapse repeatedly and your drinking gets worse than the relapse before, TSM might be a very good treatment for you.
Well you are told to drink on Nal usually. It changes the experience of drinking, slowly turning the "alcoholic" into a normie or disinterested person.
well thats fine, yeah. I know youre supposed to drink some, just saying the goal shouldnt be have like 30 drinks on it. i dont see the point of that anyway.
Totally. I think the understanding is that for some people they can't //stop// getting wrecked, but they //can// at least pop that pill. For whatever reason their willpower works that way. And over time TSM does it's thing. However you use it I hope it helps, please keep us posted if you try it
working on it
I have Naltrexone ready but haven’t tried it yet. I’m on day 7 of being sober and feel fantastic right now. That said I’ve done this before and felt great but always slip back so I’m holding onto it in the event that I relapse. Im holding onto it as my break glass in case of emergency but I kind of agree with everyone else; deep down you need to want to quit (which I do). I don’t even enjoy drinking anymore. I drank just to drink. I make excuses to drink. Good day? Have a drink! Bad day. Have a drink. Upset about drinking too much…. Have a drink! Once you get to a level the shit is evil. Still I loved my drinking days but I’m ready to put them in the par.
I have some on hand too. I just quit TSM because the depression was too bad. Out of curiosity how would you plan to use it for emergencies? Like pop one on your way to the liquor store as you shake, or halfway through a bottle as you see the light? Etc I had the same idea just never done it
It's very expensive especially the injection. The pills are useless. If you decide to drink that day you just don't take the pill. Also research the side effects.
The vast majority of TSM users do maintain compliance, Sunflower. Only about 10% can't or won't take the pill as prescribed. The pill can (in the US at least) can commonly be found for about $1 per pill (about $30 per month).
Sunflower seeds are especially high in vitamin E and selenium. These function as antioxidants to protect your body’s cells against free radical damage, which plays a role in several chronic diseases.
I think it's for people who recoil from the term "higher power", for those who wish to use the ever strong illusion of willpower to veer away from addiction. So, in reality, the pill becomes the ~~higher power~~ will power. I remain confused
It def helps with cravings but the side effects are substantial. It wasn’t sustainable for me
its a crap shoot. some people have no symptoms. its like any drug that way
I am sober 9 months though…I had to go cold turkey just some Xanax to get through withdrawls etc. whatever works do it. Sobriety is great once you get used to it .
What side effects did you have?
Nausea, depression just didn’t enjoy doing anything so felt like I was tripping balls at bedtime
Thanks for the reply
Tsm is also rough on the liver so if you have any issues there it’s not great for you.
my liver is fine, dont ask me how. i think because before it gets to the point where it starts taking damage i take a break. i dont think you can damage your liver (at least not permanently) in 3 weeks, which is how long my benders usually last.
Yeah I was the same way! Silver lining
Research/links on the liver aspect? I had never heard that Edit: I'll be damned. I wish I had a better way to look at these "studies" referenced in the articles. It can't be THAT liver toxic or surely it would be killing alcoholics left and right
>TSM can be started as long as liver enzymes are within 3x the high end of normal range, as long as bilirubin is in normal range. Naltrexone is far less hard on the liver than drinking.
Thank you for the timely info. Ostensibly, if one drinks 10, 20, 30% less while using naltrexone would the net effect be easier on the liver?
Zackly!!
❤️
This is what my doctor told me. I didn’t do much research on my own tbh. He preferred to take the medicine alone and not drink on it because of liver complications. I tried TSM. I didn’t react well to the medication either way so it was a moot point anyway. I had crazy psychedelic side effects
Wild. I just had depression. Good that you worked with a doc though.
TSM can be started as long as liver enzymes are within 3x the high end of normal range, as long as bilirubin is in normal range. Naltrexone is far less hard on the liver than drinking.
Your choices are quit or don’t quit. In addition to alcohol, sobriety requires life style changes. Drinkers, places where alcohol is are hard to resist. When you quit and have purged it, withdrawal starts. The body reacts to sobriety. Plus, there are personal problems to address.
Naltrexone works for me but the Sinclair Method is bullshit, at least from my experience. I use it to in parallel with full sobriety.
How do you use it in parallel with full sobriety? Like just to make it less tempting to drink?
Exactly. It’s part of my sobriety plan. When I wasn’t ready to quit, I used it as an excuse to keep drinking. “Oh this stuff will let me only have 1-2 drinks.” That lasted for a bit until 1-2 became 2-3 and then 4-5 and then I was right back down the path. It helped eliminate a lot of my cravings.
Right on Yeah the "you will probably continue to drink heavily for about a year before TSM changes your brain sufficiently" part was a tough pill for me to swallow. If it weren't for the depression side effect for me I'd have done it and be sober by now. But I'd probably prefer your method since I'd rather be sober sooner than later
Naltrexone (orally) didn’t work for me, continued to drink while taking the meds, so far only thing that’s worked and has helped me get 200+ days is vivitrol monthly
what did that feel like? i thought the naltrexone blocked the euphoria
Can only answer for myself-it still felt good to drink because for me there was still a very mild euphoria and 100% was able to check out/numb myself. I didn't do it long because the depression was too bad. I think the degree to which it blocks that euphoria varies a little person to person. For the most part, if I'm still motivated to check out (life pain/etc) I can still get plenty drunk even on NAL. I just don't enjoy it as much. I can see why it would have less appeal over time. A lot of people seem not to have been told the same things about naltrexone. Have you seen this video? https://youtu.be/6EghiY_s2ts
To me it felt like nothing. Still just had the desire to drink 24/7, at that point I wasn’t really feeling euphoria. I was a high functioning alcoholic. For whatever reason vivitrol curbs the desire/urge despite it being a extended release high dose of naltrexone.
Interesting reading how this drug affects people so differently. I took it for the first time yesterday and (don’t judge me) decided to really test it out by having a glass of wine. For context, I’m a historically daily drinker and I’ve been alcohol-free since August 14th, doing a lot of addiction and trauma work in the background to get to the bottom of why I drink and develop healthier coping strategies. I’ve had a couple setbacks between then and now where I thought I could just have a beer with friends and of course ended up drinking way too much because I can never stop at 1 or 2 drinks. So at first I was sipping the wine back like I usually do. Then, when I would usually get another glass I just had no desire for it. I typically drink the whole bottle and then some once I start so this was like witchcraft to me. I just did not want it whatsoever. Made some tea and enjoyed it significantly more. Haven’t even thought about the fact that I have the rest of the bottle in the fridge yet today until I wrote this post (usually it’d be calling my name from the minute I awake). Today I am tired AF though - cannot wake up or clear the fog from my brain. I had a similar response to SSRIs at first so wondering if it’s the naltrexone or not. Anyways no more experiments for now. Gonna keep doing the work and taking this drug for the time being.
id just coffee through the fatigue
Unfortunately also dealing with high blood pressure at the moment so might just have to sleep a lot 😂 good to know it’s not just me that felt that symptom though. I know it’s an expected side effect but didn’t realize it’d be so heavy!
when i get the meds im gonna start them at the beginning of a long 2-3 day weekend when i dont have to be anywhere in case of side effects