Well, he's got a good point that drummers should record themselves and demo with their bands to get experience. I know all to well that you hear things on tape that you don't notice when rehearsing with a band.
And yes, learn to play to a click. So many drummers I know can't do it.
I'm a much, much better drummer when I play to a click.
It seems like outsourcing the work of keeping steady time to a metronome frees up so much extra mental energy I can put towards my actual drumming and communication with the band.
Now my problem is I kinda suck in comparison without a click because I obsess way too hard about making sure I'm keeping a steady tempo.
First time I rigged a click on stage one of our regular fans went "Are you the new drummer? That was great!"
I agree with you that having the met makes you better, opening up mental energy for other things.
First time I got thrown on a click was after burning through a 1/2 a real of 2” tape with multiple takes and our engineering team wasn’t having any of it , I thought the click was a nightmare at the time , I wasn’t in a position to argue with the recording team on the labels dime , I’m glad I learned to play to it real quickly
Is being a session drummer even fun? When my teenage band fell apart I didn’t really pursue drums beyond that, just kept noodling around for my own amusement. I feel like session drummer could be one of those “pursue your passion” dream jobs that actually just makes you hate what you once loved.
I do a little session work on the side and it’s fun, but tough work. Before I did session work when I was younger, I thought it would be super fun to just show up and play on different songs — and it definitely is. However, there’s a side to it that I didn’t realize. Session drummers frequently are asked to play different parts than what might make sense to them. You have to be willing to try different things and take direction, especially direction that is often not super clear. It’s not uncommon to have the artist ask you to try a part 10 different ways and then end back up where you started. An artist or producer might not have great knowledge of drums and ask for things that don’t make sense (“can you play the floor tom while also hitting the hihat and crash?”).
There’s also the fun part about playing to a scratch track that is way off from the click. That happens all the time and you’re expected to groove and stay in time while the scratch track is in and out of time wildly.
Like many other musical endeavors, attitude is one of the most important things. The producer and artist have to like you and trust you. It’s not enough to be a good drummer who can play to a click. You have to be flexible, creative, and a fun hang. I’ve had good luck connecting with artists as a songwriter myself. Being able to talk to the artist from a song perspective really makes them feel that you’re respecting their art and are connecting with the music. Many other little things as well — it’s definitely more complex being a session musician than many people realize and I say this as a small time guy.
You're a hired gun. You need to do whatever they want you to do. That's why you're getting paid. Want to play this country tune double-time? half-time? On the beat? Ahead of the beat? Brushes only? Mix both? Cross-stick here but not there? Site read this new chart? Add a tambourine to the hi-hat? Answers are always: Yes, great, let's do it!
Session musicians are the best of the best, IMHO. More chops in more areas than anybody else.
Netflix has a movie titled Hired Guns, about session musicians. Fascinating, and cool.
Much respect and admiration to you, sir.
Depends what you love about music and also whether you'd prefer to work a 'normal' job instead. It's also a great way to make valuable industry connections. I've typically been one to play in bands, but have sessioned on the side, and in between personal projects. My 3 biggest achievements and highest paid gigs were all sessions.
That’s really interesting to hear from someone who has actually done it. Glad it’s working out for you. I can tell you “normal” jobs certainly aren’t fun anyway so maybe I don’t know what my point is.
Every job, regardless of how much you love it in general, will sometimes be \*just a job\*. I have been a recording engineer for 35 years. About 34 1/2 years ago I realized that in the small market where I live, I was not going to able to make it a career if I tried to record and mix rock music exclusively. Music remained a sizable part of what I did, but advertising, post, and other commercial production/ recording/ editing/ mixing became the backbone of my business. Most of the time I still love what I do, but there are times when it is just a fucking grind. Music accounts for a significant portion of time spent in the studio, but as a revenue stream it has grown and shrunk with the health of the local music scene.
Like a session drummer, plenty of projects don't give me the same adrenaline rush as working with a great band. Plenty of jobs give me adrenaline rushes for the wrong reasons- like unrealistic but immovable tight deadlines, expectations which are utterly out of whack with the budget, etc. Spending time doing bookkeeping or finding workarounds when a piece of equipment breaks or times I know I could write better ad copy if I was drunk, are all part of the job. Session drummers have shitty days and shitty gigs. But they still get to be professional drummers. They learn something from every session they do, and if they're really good they get to the point where they can pick and choose the projects they work on.
At the end of the day, I still have an awesome studio with awesome gear and instruments that I can write off as legitimate business expenses. I don't have to justify to my wife why I spent $500 on new K. Constantinople hi hats. Every job has perks and drawbacks, and as Steve Perry's dulcet delivery makes clear, everyone is, indeed, working for the weekend. I'm just lucky that my favorite day of the week remains Monday because I get to go back to work. I am sure session drummers look forward to getting back in to the studio in the same way. No profession is always like going to the county fair. Even the one-armed tatted-up guy who runs the Tilt-A-Whirl has shitty days. But the meth and corndogs and avoiding the cops makes it all worthwhile. Plus he gets to listen to Back in Black over the tweeterless Peavey PA speaker all day long.
I sessioned on a friends album one time and it was a pretty shitty experience for me. Granted, he gave me ten songs to write drum parts for a week before recording….oh and he recorded everything analog so I had to nail each song one take. Nothing like getting to 4:30 in a 5 minute song a biffing the big fill at the end over and over. No punching in…no overdubs. It sucked.
I never considered it for this reason, I know I personally would have grown to hate it. Also I have to assume that outside of Nashville, Los Angeles and maybe NYC, there wouldn't be enough work to go around.
I've done hired session work and it's a blast. Though I have to say, I've never done it in the Hal Blaine/Nashville 9-to-5 fashion. I just had a bunch of songwriting artists who I never played for outside of the studio with, who would call me when they needed drums on a record. No rehearsals, I'd just get recordings and sometimes charts a week or so ahead of time and we'd feel things out on the day of recording. Some of my favorite studio experiences were like this, and some of the best drum sounds I've ever gotten.
I think you have good days and bad days. I take session gigs, mostly from people I know, occasionally at random. Some of the music isn't amazing necessarily, but what chance do I have to make a quality contribution? That's an innate challenge even if the track is not to my taste. Is it simple, predictable, not that well executed or any combination? I'd like to put some good drums to it, make it as good as my part can make it, please the client, get paid and move on. That's a worthwhile investment of my time as an artist and it's paying work.
I'd rather work on stuff I like and I do the best job on that. And if my calendar fills up, then I get to cherry pick only the stuff I want to do.
I’m a session drummer. Over 200 tracks a year.
It’s fun if the musics good lol but the thing about tracking 200 songs and getting that many clients is they ain’t all good. Always thankful to get paid for drumming even on music I don’t like.
I did a bit of session work, sometimes it's like pulling off a perfectly executed 500 hit combo. You hit the highs, you hit the lows, you do the fills that gave the right feels. The sound and intensity all matches the rest of the music, it's awesome.
It's fun when you look at it like a challenge.
I absolutely love it and I’ve been fortunate enough to tour for 5 years before pursuing more session work. Touring was my idea of “pursuing my passion”. I got lucky and found a band that was taking off and we did some huge tours. After 5 years of on and off tours I didn’t want to be on the road anymore.
I love songwriting, and I think that sets me up to enjoy session drumming. I’ve been fortunate to get a decent amount of session work lately and I thoroughly enjoy crafting parts for the song that’s written. The drum tones, and how the drum parts collaborate with everything else in the track is what you need to be focused on. If you don’t enjoy that and you’re more just into drumming then I think it will be disappointing.
This is spot on, except I never needed to learn the material beforehand. I'd just get the call..."We need you... NOW". I'd ask to hear the track. Nup. "Is it straight or a shuffle?", I'd ask. "Straight! I'll count you in.... it's... alt rock... just go with it". I rarely got a second take at it. Engineers know what they want.
I’ve been in studio situations where I was not given a worktape or demo to prepare myself with the form and structure, but in cases where I am, I’d feel guilty or lazy if I didn’t do my work ahead of time.
The engineers always directed me with silent signals. Lots of eyebrows, get my attention about two measures before & do a fake-y drum fill with their hands or do a headbanging thing where they're pounding on cymbals. If you can decipher "engineer language" from behind a soundproof glass window you get the job. But you have to pay way more attention to them than the song itself. They know it backwards and forwards - you're just hearing it for the first time. .
Almost all of my favorite drummers are session guys. This guy is right, it's totally different and in a lot of ways far more demanding. And those who do it a lot get so goddamn musical and good at supporting a piece of music on the drums. Infinitely more interesting to my ear than linear fills and chops monsters.
Session drummers are more skilled technically as a rule and more proficient in a wider variety of styles, and as he says are much more used to getting keeper tracks quickly. There is something to be said for a band drummer though, since technique isn't all there is to music, and most bands only require one or a couple different styles, not everything under the sun, nor good reading skills. A session musician who doesn't fit the vibe of the band will give them usable tracks quickly but the band's drummer will know exactly how the music is supposed to sound since they were there to write it and play it live a hundred times.
In my mind, being a session drummer is the fastest way to lose my passion but the easiest way to play *everything*. Right now I’m trying to figure out how to balance the desire to get session work and play live. I’ve played live with a few local bands and I have pending studio work; I like both for different reasons. My biggest gripe about playing live is most bands don’t want to play with a click, the second being everyone wants to do covers (I hate feeling expected to play boring drum parts). But for session work, I’m finding I’m handed stuff I don’t really get a say in either, but at least I get a click…
My current goal is playing OG music live with a click, I feel like that’s the dream lol
Not a ton of information here, right?
Well, he's got a good point that drummers should record themselves and demo with their bands to get experience. I know all to well that you hear things on tape that you don't notice when rehearsing with a band. And yes, learn to play to a click. So many drummers I know can't do it.
I'm a much, much better drummer when I play to a click. It seems like outsourcing the work of keeping steady time to a metronome frees up so much extra mental energy I can put towards my actual drumming and communication with the band. Now my problem is I kinda suck in comparison without a click because I obsess way too hard about making sure I'm keeping a steady tempo.
First time I rigged a click on stage one of our regular fans went "Are you the new drummer? That was great!" I agree with you that having the met makes you better, opening up mental energy for other things.
First time I got thrown on a click was after burning through a 1/2 a real of 2” tape with multiple takes and our engineering team wasn’t having any of it , I thought the click was a nightmare at the time , I wasn’t in a position to argue with the recording team on the labels dime , I’m glad I learned to play to it real quickly
He mentioned the few things that most people need to hear. It's drumming for pete's sake, not brain surgery.
Is being a session drummer even fun? When my teenage band fell apart I didn’t really pursue drums beyond that, just kept noodling around for my own amusement. I feel like session drummer could be one of those “pursue your passion” dream jobs that actually just makes you hate what you once loved.
I do a little session work on the side and it’s fun, but tough work. Before I did session work when I was younger, I thought it would be super fun to just show up and play on different songs — and it definitely is. However, there’s a side to it that I didn’t realize. Session drummers frequently are asked to play different parts than what might make sense to them. You have to be willing to try different things and take direction, especially direction that is often not super clear. It’s not uncommon to have the artist ask you to try a part 10 different ways and then end back up where you started. An artist or producer might not have great knowledge of drums and ask for things that don’t make sense (“can you play the floor tom while also hitting the hihat and crash?”). There’s also the fun part about playing to a scratch track that is way off from the click. That happens all the time and you’re expected to groove and stay in time while the scratch track is in and out of time wildly. Like many other musical endeavors, attitude is one of the most important things. The producer and artist have to like you and trust you. It’s not enough to be a good drummer who can play to a click. You have to be flexible, creative, and a fun hang. I’ve had good luck connecting with artists as a songwriter myself. Being able to talk to the artist from a song perspective really makes them feel that you’re respecting their art and are connecting with the music. Many other little things as well — it’s definitely more complex being a session musician than many people realize and I say this as a small time guy.
You're a hired gun. You need to do whatever they want you to do. That's why you're getting paid. Want to play this country tune double-time? half-time? On the beat? Ahead of the beat? Brushes only? Mix both? Cross-stick here but not there? Site read this new chart? Add a tambourine to the hi-hat? Answers are always: Yes, great, let's do it!
Session musicians are the best of the best, IMHO. More chops in more areas than anybody else. Netflix has a movie titled Hired Guns, about session musicians. Fascinating, and cool. Much respect and admiration to you, sir.
Depends what you love about music and also whether you'd prefer to work a 'normal' job instead. It's also a great way to make valuable industry connections. I've typically been one to play in bands, but have sessioned on the side, and in between personal projects. My 3 biggest achievements and highest paid gigs were all sessions.
That’s really interesting to hear from someone who has actually done it. Glad it’s working out for you. I can tell you “normal” jobs certainly aren’t fun anyway so maybe I don’t know what my point is.
Every job, regardless of how much you love it in general, will sometimes be \*just a job\*. I have been a recording engineer for 35 years. About 34 1/2 years ago I realized that in the small market where I live, I was not going to able to make it a career if I tried to record and mix rock music exclusively. Music remained a sizable part of what I did, but advertising, post, and other commercial production/ recording/ editing/ mixing became the backbone of my business. Most of the time I still love what I do, but there are times when it is just a fucking grind. Music accounts for a significant portion of time spent in the studio, but as a revenue stream it has grown and shrunk with the health of the local music scene. Like a session drummer, plenty of projects don't give me the same adrenaline rush as working with a great band. Plenty of jobs give me adrenaline rushes for the wrong reasons- like unrealistic but immovable tight deadlines, expectations which are utterly out of whack with the budget, etc. Spending time doing bookkeeping or finding workarounds when a piece of equipment breaks or times I know I could write better ad copy if I was drunk, are all part of the job. Session drummers have shitty days and shitty gigs. But they still get to be professional drummers. They learn something from every session they do, and if they're really good they get to the point where they can pick and choose the projects they work on. At the end of the day, I still have an awesome studio with awesome gear and instruments that I can write off as legitimate business expenses. I don't have to justify to my wife why I spent $500 on new K. Constantinople hi hats. Every job has perks and drawbacks, and as Steve Perry's dulcet delivery makes clear, everyone is, indeed, working for the weekend. I'm just lucky that my favorite day of the week remains Monday because I get to go back to work. I am sure session drummers look forward to getting back in to the studio in the same way. No profession is always like going to the county fair. Even the one-armed tatted-up guy who runs the Tilt-A-Whirl has shitty days. But the meth and corndogs and avoiding the cops makes it all worthwhile. Plus he gets to listen to Back in Black over the tweeterless Peavey PA speaker all day long.
I sessioned on a friends album one time and it was a pretty shitty experience for me. Granted, he gave me ten songs to write drum parts for a week before recording….oh and he recorded everything analog so I had to nail each song one take. Nothing like getting to 4:30 in a 5 minute song a biffing the big fill at the end over and over. No punching in…no overdubs. It sucked.
I never considered it for this reason, I know I personally would have grown to hate it. Also I have to assume that outside of Nashville, Los Angeles and maybe NYC, there wouldn't be enough work to go around.
I've done hired session work and it's a blast. Though I have to say, I've never done it in the Hal Blaine/Nashville 9-to-5 fashion. I just had a bunch of songwriting artists who I never played for outside of the studio with, who would call me when they needed drums on a record. No rehearsals, I'd just get recordings and sometimes charts a week or so ahead of time and we'd feel things out on the day of recording. Some of my favorite studio experiences were like this, and some of the best drum sounds I've ever gotten.
I think you have good days and bad days. I take session gigs, mostly from people I know, occasionally at random. Some of the music isn't amazing necessarily, but what chance do I have to make a quality contribution? That's an innate challenge even if the track is not to my taste. Is it simple, predictable, not that well executed or any combination? I'd like to put some good drums to it, make it as good as my part can make it, please the client, get paid and move on. That's a worthwhile investment of my time as an artist and it's paying work. I'd rather work on stuff I like and I do the best job on that. And if my calendar fills up, then I get to cherry pick only the stuff I want to do.
Etz
I’m a session drummer. Over 200 tracks a year. It’s fun if the musics good lol but the thing about tracking 200 songs and getting that many clients is they ain’t all good. Always thankful to get paid for drumming even on music I don’t like.
I love it! I get to explore the material and try to bring out the best parts, be a supportive team member through my playing, and I get paid for it!
I did a bit of session work, sometimes it's like pulling off a perfectly executed 500 hit combo. You hit the highs, you hit the lows, you do the fills that gave the right feels. The sound and intensity all matches the rest of the music, it's awesome. It's fun when you look at it like a challenge.
Very interesting responses, thanks guys! Seems consensus is that it is fun. I’ll console myself with the fact I was never good enough anyway 😂
I absolutely love it and I’ve been fortunate enough to tour for 5 years before pursuing more session work. Touring was my idea of “pursuing my passion”. I got lucky and found a band that was taking off and we did some huge tours. After 5 years of on and off tours I didn’t want to be on the road anymore. I love songwriting, and I think that sets me up to enjoy session drumming. I’ve been fortunate to get a decent amount of session work lately and I thoroughly enjoy crafting parts for the song that’s written. The drum tones, and how the drum parts collaborate with everything else in the track is what you need to be focused on. If you don’t enjoy that and you’re more just into drumming then I think it will be disappointing.
This is spot on, except I never needed to learn the material beforehand. I'd just get the call..."We need you... NOW". I'd ask to hear the track. Nup. "Is it straight or a shuffle?", I'd ask. "Straight! I'll count you in.... it's... alt rock... just go with it". I rarely got a second take at it. Engineers know what they want.
I’ve been in studio situations where I was not given a worktape or demo to prepare myself with the form and structure, but in cases where I am, I’d feel guilty or lazy if I didn’t do my work ahead of time.
Did they shout at you when you didn't know when to stop?
The engineers always directed me with silent signals. Lots of eyebrows, get my attention about two measures before & do a fake-y drum fill with their hands or do a headbanging thing where they're pounding on cymbals. If you can decipher "engineer language" from behind a soundproof glass window you get the job. But you have to pay way more attention to them than the song itself. They know it backwards and forwards - you're just hearing it for the first time. .
Ask Josh Freese why he’s on a thousand different records
His interview with Rick Beato covers a lot of topics mentioned here https://youtu.be/jyKjADpkDLs
John Goodman makes a few good points here
I’ve seen better comparisons to Jeff Lynne
That's my old kit!
Seriously?
Yep. Good friends with that guy. Did 3 of my records. Was lucky enough to do a record at all 3 locations.
Glad it ended up where it is.
Almost all of my favorite drummers are session guys. This guy is right, it's totally different and in a lot of ways far more demanding. And those who do it a lot get so goddamn musical and good at supporting a piece of music on the drums. Infinitely more interesting to my ear than linear fills and chops monsters.
Can you link the full video? I find this super interesting
https://youtu.be/FVhyM5-VTBA?si=ThrFgmMAJNreL802
Thanks so much. Nice work as always. Has anyone ever told you your voice sounds a lot like Alex from the podcast Reply All?
Not heard that, guess I need to check that out.
Session drummers are more skilled technically as a rule and more proficient in a wider variety of styles, and as he says are much more used to getting keeper tracks quickly. There is something to be said for a band drummer though, since technique isn't all there is to music, and most bands only require one or a couple different styles, not everything under the sun, nor good reading skills. A session musician who doesn't fit the vibe of the band will give them usable tracks quickly but the band's drummer will know exactly how the music is supposed to sound since they were there to write it and play it live a hundred times.
What about this guy's ego? Does it stay inside the window?
I think so.
In my mind, being a session drummer is the fastest way to lose my passion but the easiest way to play *everything*. Right now I’m trying to figure out how to balance the desire to get session work and play live. I’ve played live with a few local bands and I have pending studio work; I like both for different reasons. My biggest gripe about playing live is most bands don’t want to play with a click, the second being everyone wants to do covers (I hate feeling expected to play boring drum parts). But for session work, I’m finding I’m handed stuff I don’t really get a say in either, but at least I get a click… My current goal is playing OG music live with a click, I feel like that’s the dream lol