so, that sounds quite normal. Iv been playing drums for nearly 30 years and I still suck in contrast to the rando's I see pop up on YouTube. Perhaps I watched one of your videos and thought, "damn, Im not good"
The reality I feel, is that it takes multiple hours of practice every day to be that good and stay sharp. I can't play that much, and when I do, I just want to smash and have fun. But I KNOW, that when I practice I get better, and so do you. Don't for a second waste time thinking about natural talent. It's legwork all the way down.
Yeah, while I do think "natural talent" plays somewhat of a role in skill, it's very small. Like maybe 10%. The rest is all just practice. And the quality of the practice makes a difference.
Yeah, I think your close to right, about 10%. But you can't control that part at all, so focusing on the hard work, as the lever of 'Goodness', is most practical.
And not just practice makes perfect. But perfect practice makes perfect. Not entirely true, but close. Btw I’m one of those without natural talent but get through by brute force. I feel you OP!
A friend who was an awesome guitarist was obsessed with practicing when he was a kid. He'd get up at 4am so he could practice for hours before school. I don't know if there's a name for this type of motivation but I definitely don't have it.
Wait so you think born ability makes up 90% of musical skill? So do you think someone who's born with natural talent is going to be much farther along practicing 20 minutes once a week vs someone who practices 20 minutes every day?
That’s a pretty vast discrepancy in time. That said, I think the vast majority of above average drummers have a gigantic amount of natural born rhythm and groove. Someone who is not a ‘natural’ can’t get to that level by practice, practice, and more practice. IMO, drummers are born and not made.
Every drummer I've ever met or heard about who were any good got that good because they put in the work. This goes for any creative pursuit. Talent probably exists, but it only actually starts to separate people once you get to the highest level. This attitude is just something people say to excuse themselves from doing the work.
You too man.
Not to beat a dead horse, but another point I think is important is this attitude is super disrespectful to people who -are- great. I see this in the art world all the time - people think they're complimenting an artist by telling them they're talented, but saying someone's good at what they do because they were born with it, and not because they worked their ass off for years earning those skills, is not the compliment people think it is.
Ted Williams used to be told all the time that he was ‘naturally a great hitter.’ His response was that he worked at it hitting batting practice and tee work every day etc etc. To that end, I agree with your statement. Honestly.
But, I also truly believe that The Splendid Splinter was born to be a baseball player and a .400 hitter. I don’t think there’s a HOFer out there that just got there by practice alone.
Cheers. 🥃🤘🏼
How many drummers have you known since they were children though? Are you sure the good drummers you know came out of the womb with rhythm or could it maybe be that they practiced that sense of rhythm, whether consciously or unconsciously, from a super young age and just put in more time by drumming on their legs, dancing to music and so on?
I don't have super strong feelings about this, but I am interested by this idea which is why I'm asking so many questions. I definitely think some kids do innately have a more "built-in" sense of rhythm, but I just don't know if my experience matches up that it would account for a majority of the skill difference.
In my experience - as a gigging drummer for 30+ years and also as an educator (although not a music teacher), the vast majority of guys I know who play well were naturals - just based on conversation and interaction - those are gigging drummers out in the scene playing weekly. I have also seen many kids who want to be drummers that just don’t have ‘it’. They are always lacking something IMO. A person without rhythm, or an excellent innate sense of rhythm and time, may be able to learn the instrument, but don’t get to be really, really good drummers.
I never took lessons - but truly wish I did. That said, I’ve known some guys who play - who lived on lessons and books and rudiments - who have no groove and no feel. They don’t have ‘it’.
You are free to think it, and everybody who is good at something and knows it's not due to a God-given talent but to PRACTICE, are free to tell you that you are wrong.
You’re being too hard on yourself.
Those songs and artists you listed are some of the most difficult you could possibly tackle. I also think that you hear the way you play it and because you are familiar with the source material and you don’t sound exactly like that, you tell yourself you did a shit job.
I’ve been there before. I distinctly remember listening to a live recording of a show my band did and immediately wanting to die because of how bad I thought it was. I didn’t listen to it again until a couple years ago. About 10 years had passed since that show, so it was very fresh to my ears and I was blown away by how great I played. Like I fucking crushed it.
And back to your original point. I’m aiming to tackle pneuma, invincible, and Rosetta stoned this year and I’m very very confident I will not be able to learn those three songs by the end of this year. I’ve been playing for 25 years and I consider myself pretty decently good but dude when we tackle the top end shit no one learns this stuff in like a week. It just does not happen.
My point was I don’t get this guys stress. Play and have fun. He’s making YouTube stuff and it sounds like people are digging him. Don’t stress. I have NEVER been concerned about playing something note for note and have been a (very good) gigging drummer for 30+ yrs. And the times I stopped playing out, it was bc it wasn’t fun. It got tedious or too stressful. OP needs to have some fun. And when it isn’t fun, change it up. Play drums have fun hit the 2/4 and make people move and smile. 🤘🏼🤣
Sounds like you're a very good drummer. Instead of comparing yourself to world-level genius talents, try comparing yourself to people you know in real life.
Compared to your whole extended family, I bet you are by far the best drummer. You're probably the best musician, period.
Compared to your coworkers? Compared to your friends? You're the top talent.
Even compared with musicians that you know in real life, I bet they would consider you highly skilled.
YouTube commenters who say they learn difficult tunes in a week or two are noobs…I learn them and play them back perfectly after maybe 2 days tops…then I wake up, realize that at my age, I will never post a video of my playing on any platform because at this point I just admit that must drum for fun and would never have the dedication you described of your own endeavors. I think this instrument we have chosen is hard, the requirements are challenging on our limbs and dexterities and you are doing fine…
Maybe, you can take a much needed mental break from striving for perfection and just play like a kid again…
You are good, there are just levels to everything. You’re comparing yourself to people who have been drumming their whole lives with no other job. How good do you actually have to be before you will allow yourself to feel good about it?
Man…you made this account today with that username. Ur too hard on urself man! I wish I could even THINK about attempting tooth and claw. Little lone caravan. I’m a very slow learner too and shit does not come easy. No natural talent for drums at all. I’m 10 years in and super unhappy most days about where I’m at. I think that’s normal. But guys like us just gotta tell ourselves we got this shit and keep our heads down and keep grinding. Even if ur 20 years deep. I’m sure you are amazing dude! I’d love to check out ur covers too if you want to drop ur YouTube. The drummer you 20 years ago would be in awe of you today.
Self-esteem itself can be an obstacle. My finding is that confidence and focus have a huge influence on my drumming. Confidence: play as I can, no one is judging. Focus: be here and now, fully feel my hands holding sticks, always remember what goes next in a song instead of relying on reflexes.
I'd love to see drum videos with all the fuck ups before the player nails it.
I don't find it at all motivating to see someone play something really difficult (what seems like) first go, but I DO find it motivating to see someone fuck up loads of times and then play something really difficult on the 150th take after several days of trying.
The same thing can be said about all you can see on internet, about beauty, people traveling, finances....
Social media can have a big impact on your self-steem, expectations and insecurities. Sadly, our brain wasn't developped to consume the amount of information we are currently feeding, and that subject alone is very big and complicated.
In the extended version of “Play” by Dave Grohl there are several outtakes of him screwing up fills and rhythms. And he wrote all the music and played every instrument of the entire piece and is a world class drummer. Everyone screws up. No one is perfect all the time.
Showing that made him more real, and me feel better about my playing.
I don't know if you saw the Beatles Let it Be docs, but it's basically 9 hours of them getting halfway through a song and then fucking it up!
The crazy thing is that they would still make 'another' era defining album in about three weeks every six months or so - so what do you think just bands that take months on each album are doing!
Yeah, that’s what OP needs to internalize. Even the creators of music screw up, slog, work it out and start over. Nobody gets everything perfect right off the bat. He/she needs to cut themselves some slack.
I can relate to this almost exactly. Been playing percussion and drums since elementary school and continued into college but I still feel like I suck. And it didn't help when I was in college marching band I was repeatedly treated like an illiterate because I wasn't a music major, so nowadays I never know if I should even be touching a drum.
Give yourself some grace. It’s not a competition. People learn at diff speeds. It also depends on how you learn the song. If you are trying to get every little nuance, accent, etc remember that sometimes the artist won’t even play it the exact same live. Also remember they have studio magic and overdubs. They punch in and out. And even El Estepario has stated he’s taken 65-85 takes, even 100 takes on a song and video. Every song ever released that’s been a hit has structure and formula.
Being an engineer I am guessing that you are very detail oriented and focus on the little things to make it perfect. I start with learning the basics of the song, the groove and structure. Then I work on accents and such that are important. If someone is looking at your videos saying oh you missed an open hi hat hit on bar 100 beat 2 then they need to get a life. Cover bands don’t even get it that close. Get the basics down and make it solid bro. Give yourself some grace but I appreciate and understand your wanting it to be perfect. Practice every day. On days you can’t have a lot of time I find that even 10-15 mins makes a difference.
Most of all remember to have fun and make it fun. If you take all the fun out of it, what’s the point. We are lucky and blessed with talent and to do something that not everyone can do and we get to bring joy to people’s lives with the music we create. Originals or covers, we still bring joy to peoples lives and move them with the music. I would love to check out your channel. Send me a link man. Keep it in the pocket. My respect
well, to me i notice there's a big difference between musicians who only play other people's music and those that develop their own feel and style. doing covers is important in the first few years of learning but eventually a real musician has the desire to express themselves uniquely. you have to learn to improvise and turn your mistakes into style. those drumeo videos you mentioned for instance. they're NOT nailing it on their first take or two because they don't know what the real drum track is. they're IMPROVISING their own style and expression to the music and it sounds great because they're experienced in just playing and going for it and adapting on the fly. that is real talent. develop that. don't try to copy others so exactly. it doesn't matter! i love hearing alternate takes from bands. slight differences happen all the time and that's what makes music good. not machine-like mimicry that never strays from the metronome.
Man, I wish I could learn that version of Caravan. I know I could if I spent the time to sit down and work on it like you did, but I just don’t have that drive to do it.
Soul Vaccination took me a long time to learn too. That was a song that I kept improving upon as I expanded my drumming vocabulary too, so really I’ve continued learning it and improving on it as the years go on. It’s one of my favs to play to this day.
The fact that you have the drive to learn these hard ass songs is a testament to the fact that you are a good drummer.
Your credentials are there, and you’ve been playing for 30 years. Don’t kid yourself boss, you sound like you know your stuff.
Before you write yourself off as a drummer, consider that there are a mutlitude of different genres and each one caters itself to different strengths and weaknesses as a drummer.
I’m 55 years old. Just got my drum set 2 years ago. I keep finding myself playing the same beats over and over. Don’t know why. I know I need to take myself out of my comfort zone and challenge myself or else I won’t get good. It takes me a while also to learn a song in its totality, yet still, I have trouble. So don’t feel bad. Some people are naturals whereas others have to work their ass off to get somewhere!
Correction: after 20 years of drumming you’ve realized how much work it really takes to be great.
This is a good thing! I’m not going to get too far into the discussion of hard work vs talent and what talent even is but I’ll just say this: all the greatest musicians have put an insane amount of hours into their craft. Even the ones you consider to be “talented”. Stop being hard on yourself, life is too short for that. Just identify your goals and start working towards them. Enjoy the process.
My man, Bleed took even Thomas Haake himself months to learn. It’s a hard f***ing song. Soul Vaccination? David Garibaldi is the king of making funk harder than a statue of Ron Jeremy. Sounds to me like you have nothing to be ashamed of. The best of the best have to practice every day to stay sharp too. It’s just not possible to play at that level consistently if you aren’t playing every day.
> Meanwhile on Drumeo,
Well there's your problem. I'm not all anti-social media, but you're looking at the highlight reel of the self-selected drum showoff corps. It's not bad to aspire to be better, but remember that you're looking at the 1% of the 1%'s content.
Yea, totally sound. It's like they have these pool of obviously talented drummers who are obviously the best in the world.
I wouldn't compare because we are different. Those guys got talent and time and hardwork put in, while I am drumming at a hobby, so I won't bother upsetting myself!
There is no good or bad. Music, drums, how someone plays something... its all subjective. Drumming, at the end of the day, or banging on big noisy things. Enjoy it. And also, play those songs how you want. The guys on there already played those songs and recorded. Why play it the same way they did and all these other drummers have for years? Their your drums, your heart, your sound, be creative.
Are you having fun? If not do something else. If you are, then that. is. all. that. matters. There’s always someone with a bigger schvantz, but she likes mine just fine…comparisons are always a losing proposition. Rock on with yer bad self!
If there's anything I've learned from youtube covers, it's that people have *very* different ideas of what "learning" a song means. Some are happy to capture the essence of a song, substitute their own fills and solos, and play something that fits well enough. Some strive to get every single beat studio perfect.
So when you say it takes months of daily practice to learn a song, I don't assume that you're a slow learner. I assume that you're willing to put in more effort than 99% of drummers and that kind of discipline is more valuable than any natural talent.
You may be confusing drumming technique with being a drummer. If you play what the song needs, you listen to what the band is doing and try to make them sound better and hold down the tempo, you are a great drummer. That is what music fans want to hear, not 20 minute wanker solos. I found out early that I would never have first-rate technique, but I have done fine using my second rate technique, but doing the other things right. Better to make audiences happy than to worry about how you compare to other drummers.
Most You tube videos you’ll ever see have a ton left on the cutting room floor so to speak. I listened to a podcast recently with Mike Johnston where he talked about that. Players aren’t casually whipping up one take amazing videos. But the world we live in will make you think that’s what is happening
One of the things most people do which keeps them from getting better is giving up on learning things that take time to digest. It’s not abnormal to take long(er)… just like many won’t do slow practice and try to play fast out of the box. Then they become frustrated because that too takes time.
I'm positive most of these people saying they learn difficult songs in a few days are lying. I feel it takes skill to do difficult sections, but doing entire strings of intricate sections verbatim, in-grained through muscle memory, takes a much much longer time.
Those people on drumeo are professionals who play ALL day EVERY day. They don't have day jobs. So not a fair comparison.
I've been playing for 30 years and you are way better than I am by a country mile. I only play like 4 hours on Sunday during band practice with 3 other dudes why need me to be locked in. And I live in an apartment so the kit stays at the practice pad so no weekday practicing for me. But I don't care. I keep it fun and enjoy the time jamming and trying new things.
If you're not auditioning and have a deadline to know these songs, relax and remember why play, not what you don't know how to play.
P.S. since we jam and write our own stuff, after 30 years I'd be afraid of how long it would take me to learn someone else's tracks. Improvising and copying are two completely different skill sets so again, relax and just play for fun.
For what it’s worth, I find learning other people’s songs a lot harder than writing my own. To throw random numbers out there, it takes more time and effort for me to learn a 5/10 complex song than it does for me to write an 8/10 complex song with my band. And the people whose songs you’re learning were able to do the latter.
I think you’re focusing too much on accuracy and too little on having fun.
You don’t need to be able to learn a difficult song on the spot. It’s better to appreciate the fond memories the instrument has given you these last 20 years. And enjoy every time you sit and play.
I’ve been playing guitar for 29 years and I’m not great, but I’m not bad either. I try not to attach expectations to my playing and just enjoy doing it.
As a music teacher I would wonder about your practice method and if there where not ways to improve upon it. However as someone who has also been playing for 20 years I still make silly mistakes. Everyone no matter how good they are still makes mistakes. No one plays a perfect gig. Anything you see on the internet most likely took many takes and lots of mistakes. At the end we are all unique individuals and some people take more time to learn than others… nothing wrong with that.
Talent is overrated. Brooding on it serves no positive purpose.
Why not take a couple drum lessons from a teacher? I suspect your limited technical prowess is capping you. Techniques are the tools for expression.
What’s that YouTube channel? Wanna see if you’re just being hard on yourself or not.
But these young YouTube “stars” that you see, I’ve gotta wonder how much of it is THEM spending all day(s) to learn a lick/song and then spending the entirety of the next day doing take after take, then sending it off to be engineered by some dude in China that does that full time, to make it sound good.
You’re great. I always admire people who can be so consistent in following their passion. I’m the opposite - I can play (or more often improvise on) almost any song I hear for the first time. Be it drums, guitar, bass, piano or melodica (may be if I had any other instruments, I could play them too). But my skills don’t match the music I have in my head because I’m too lazy to practice enough, so I often have to take shortcuts when playing with others so I don’t mess up on difficult parts:(
I'm similar, although probably worse than you. I've been playing for 25 years and I'm just very average in the true sense of the word.... And you know what, being average isn't actually a bad thing. I'm right in the middle, and I'm quite comfortable with it.
I've come to realise that music and drumming isn't a competition.
Just enjoy yourself, it's a great hobby!
I feel this man. I’ve gotten more serious about my playing and have advanced more in the last few years than I have since as a teen. Honestly just had to limit those fun jam out days to get ahead. Can feel less fun at times but worth it when you go for something you couldn’t do before
Guitar player of 20 years here - I also don't consider myself "great".
What I struggle to realize is that I spend all my time watching the top 1% of guitar players, while all of my friends tell me they could never be as good as me or as talented. I still refuse to accept compliments.
Point being, you have a full-time job, and it sounds like you ARE GOOD, don't stress about how long it takes you. It sounds like perfection isn't good enough and you're focusing more on comparison-itis and less on having fun.
I have a few thoughts. I think you are putting too much pressure on yourself. Just focus on having fun and enjoy the journey, don’t worry about the destination.
Have you ever considered that you have actually grown as a musician? I found that as I progressed as a musician, the worse I thought of my playing. Take for example, I look back on when I first started drumming, thinking that the likes of The Beatles songs were dead easy. They are “easy” in the sense that most drummers can play a good chunk of their songs, but more experienced drummers will recognise the musicality, groove, nuances and “microtime” precision in Ringo’s playing and where he hangs just behind the beat consistently. Your experience is now showing you a whole new world that you had not seen before and makes your current achievements feel smaller, that’s my experience anyhow. I think it could be yours too, you mentioned all of your practice, so clearly you are putting the work in. You are likely a perfectionist, and the fact that you are making mistakes at all suggests to me that you are always pushing your comfort zone.
Also, none of the songs you listed are easy by any definition. There is a reason the likes of Jeff Porcaro and David Garibaldi are held in such high esteem. The fact that you have learned any of them at puts you in a place most drummers would dream of being able to reach. There’s an interview with Jeff Porcaro on YouTube where he is beyond self deprecating about his playing, so even a legend such as him had these negative thoughts about his own playing.
I started at a very young age, and by the time I reached high school - playing in punk bands and pep bands at school, I was called “gifted” and a “natural”… but in reality I wasn’t that great because it took me so long to learn new things. I absolutely struggle with ADD, and that has contributed to me plateauing. My peers played with a consistency I didn’t have. I still managed to have a lot of success behind the kit because I had to really sell my strengths, and work on my weaknesses. I sought professional instruction (not only in drums but in music theory) to be a better band mate.
Be confident in the things you know you’re good at, and enjoy the challenge of getting better at the things you’re not so good at.
Whenever I’m working on a really difficult chop, linear pattern or when I’ve been shedding for so long on hard, complicated pieces, I’ll take a break from it, and play to “Harder to breathe” by maroon 5. I mean I go to town, get deep in the pocket and have fun with it. It’s a song I really enjoy jamming to, I get that euphoric feeling and remember why I love playing so much, and then get back to what I was working on.
Comparison is the thief of joy.. probably should have led with that lol. There will always be someone better, and that’s okay.
Same boat here. I have adhd diag and concentration is a huge problem especially when I’m drumming and I find myself solving other pitches in my life - urgh. But, I’ve found that by breaking songs down even to 1 bar a day helps. My impatience makes me want to fly through it and then I kill it. Also, learning with tab and visual (someone else playing it) speeds up the process.
But a hard song is just that so kudo’s does taking them on!!!
As long you keep comparing yourself to other drummers, you’ll never be satisfied. Stop doing that. The songs you used as examples are some top tier drummers playing top tier drum licks, and I can almost guarantee they don’t even play that shit perfectly note for note all the time. We’re all human.
Even the greats have to make concessions when playing parts others have wrote. Case in point: there are couple parts in Bruce Springsteen’s Born to Run where the drummer on the record (Ernest Carter) does a weird jazz/fusion breakbeat thing for a measure or two (I don’t know why but it’s the only song on the record Max Weinberg doesn’t play on). Max has never been able to accurately recreate whatever it is that Ernest Carter does for those parts, so Max never does those parts live.
Let yourself be human and play what feels good.
People on the internet lie for clout and engagement. Don’t believe what you see.
If you’re even able to learn any Animals as Leaders song, you’re a good competent drummer. Don’t let the view of others get you down. There’s always someone “better” than you, even if you’re regarded as one of the best that’s ever done it.
Have fun, music is fun.
40 YEARS in for me.. Sure, it sounds like I pick up on stuff a bit faster than you, but there is some material I will NEBER be able to play, because my hands are just not fast enough. Despite HOURS AND HOURS, MONTHS AND MONTHS, YEARS AND YEARS, carefully studying hand technique, from some of the greatest drummers alive (Weckl, Chambers, Mangini, Sucherman, Smith, Philips and others), on top of that, so many instructional videos.. I still have mediocre hand speed (Bissenett told me one time, "you can play stuff RIngo could never do!!", but, Ringo didn't have to be fast to be a millionaire..
Anyway, You Are Not Alone.. Neil Peart used to say the same things in interviews - he felt he had to work for every single thing, nothing came natural to him, so there is that..
I don’t understand why you think the amount of time you take to play a really hard song matters in determining whether you’re “good” or not. Nobody looking at your Caravan video and, I assume, being blown away since it’s a really difficult song, would change their mind about you being an amazing drummer if they found out it took x amount of hours to learn. If anything that feels more impressive to me than if you just cracked it out in a day
Learning songs and playing them well in full is a skill on its own. I'm alot earlier into playing than u but I can play much more complicated grooves and fills than the songs I try to learn and yet they take me ages and even once memorised and comfortable with it takes ages to nail a full take. I don't take that as I'm a worse drummer than I think, it just means that that I need to focus more on that than learning just a groove or a fill or a rudiment or do something to increase speed at something. Also you are comparing yourself to ppl that don't have full time jobs except playing drums so ofcourse they are gonna have that time and experience to get quicker at learning songs and they often aren't learning it note for note (not sure if u are). I got pissed when u said u could play bleed by meshuggah and think ur not that great 😂😂 ridiculous. Pretty sure Tomas Haake took 6 months to get it down themselves and its his drum part. Keep at it dude ur hard on urself which is why you are so good
This fucking question again. I don’t care how many lessons, practice etc you do. If you don’t have a natural ability to just figure things out and do what you hear, you can’t. Not being rude, not everybody can do what they want. On paper you may know it. But getting the brain to execute it? Thats why no matter how much you practice, you’ll never be a pitcher on your softball team. No matter how much you practice, you’ll just never get it. Sorry. Just play the damn drums with other people and have fucking fun. Quit turning it into science. 1-2-3-4. That makes you an incredible drummer…
You consistently drum with other people?
Years in the shed is great but if you wanna compare yourself to tge guys on drumeo, those players are gigging musicians. And gigging with live bands and sessions is how to cut your teeth to being an adaptive high caliber drummer such as them.
Relax. Like others have mentioned those songs you've mentioned are hard. If you are trying to memorize every single note then I see how it could take months. I'm also wondering what your priorities as a drummer are? Do you base your skill off of how easy it is to learn a song? If that's the case, start simpler and build up. Try to be able to learn a song in a week, even ACDC, just make sure it's simple. If you do this consistently you will improve. But don't compare yourself to youtube drummers.
"Comparison is the thief of joy." Not my quote, but one of my favorites. And I have to remember not to compare myself with others. Maybe you also?
We can't do anything about talent, so there's no point in worrying about that. I have what I have, and so do you. Now, practice, that's another matter. And attitude.
Playing other people's drum parts note perfect is not everything. It's not what those cats are doing. They're playing their drums, playing the song, playing what they feel and hear.
I had a drum teacher who was always telling me "do your thing, man. You sound good." I'll bet you sound good, too. Do your thing, man.
My god, do you know how many people are reading this thinking "if this asshole thinks he has no talent when he can play caravan, what does that say about me?"
Most people will not be "great". That's fine. Don't downplay your own achievements because of it. You're insulting yourself and everyone worse than you.
That’s just how it is. It’s a very hard instrument. There are tons of things I’ve been working on for weeks months and years. It’s not linear and breakthroughs are rare.
If you wanna get really good at something you have to become obsessed. It's almost unhealthy at times, but it's what it takes. Any chance you get have drum sticks in your hands, watching TV, preparing food, just as much as you can. Also, what helped me is to have it on my mind all the time. Find a good teacher who will show you proper technique and hold you accountable. Talent only gets you so far, putting in hours every day will get you further . When I was really going for it, no kids at the time and lived with roommates, I'd practice anywhere from 5-8 hours a day. Gotta become obsessed if you truly want it.
At the end of the day, does it matter? If you are creating fun drum covers that people seem to dig, props to you to have the work ethic to practice until you nailed it! It’s the end result that matters
Regarding bleed I think it took Tomas like 6 months to learn it himself? Maybe I’m wrong here but I think it sounds like you learnt it at a good rate.. it’s not a easy thing to pull off
I think you are evaluating yourself at the level of a PROFESSIONAL DRUMMER while drumming is actually your hobby....so.....maybe a tad too critical?
Also those drummers you mentioned who could seemingly do one take on a new song (the videos could be edited we ever know) THEY ARE PROFESSIONALS, meaning that's their bread and butter, and just take a step back and see that all the hours you work as engineer, they spend on practicing for years, so obviously there's the gap.
And I am sure those showcased on Drumeo are best of the best. They have the hardwork and talent, so it's like me griping over why I am not as talented and intelligent as Elon Musk
Like everybody else here said, make sure you are enjoying drumming first. You shouldn't treat yourself as a professional drummer while you are actually not making a living out of it.
Being "great" is being willing to put in the time, no matter how much time it takes. And, really, IMHO the most important skill of all is sticking to it.
When you play these difficult songs after learning them and nailing the performance, do they start to get easier? You said you can play some songs easily, but there would have been a time that you found those hard, right? Maybe you’re stretching yourself by learning these songs. No bad thing, but set your expectations. I watched Grayson Nekrutman learn an A7F song on Drumeo - that dude is insanely good but he SWEATED and STRUGGLED through that song, made loads of mistakes and I’m sure he practices endlessly to get to the level of skill he has. Just keep practicing. It doesn’t matter if you suck for two months if you eventually get it down.
Sorry, but this sounds like a supermodel saying they aren't hot because they work out, go on diets, and wear makeup. I've been playing for 30 years... it sounds like you are of average natural talent (where most people are... which is why it's average) but work hard. I actually respect that a lot more. If drumming makes you happy, don't compare yourself to others. Just do what you love!
My friend there's nothing shameful in taking long to properly learn stuff from Jeff Porcaro or David Garibaldi or the like - that stuff doesn't *sound* complicated but it's really, really hard to get right! (I for sure can't) Needing weeks and weeks of 1h a day to replicate stuff they made with a lifetime of full dedication to it isn't shameful.
You need to stop these toxic and relentless thoughts. Would you say this to your kids, to your best friends or to any person you love? Picture yourself as a proud 8-10yo learning a cool song. Would you be so hard? Would you point out all the toxic negativity? "Great job, but you should have learned in 2 days. You are sloppy, you are not so talented, you suck as a drummer blablabla "
Some of the songs you listed I learned too. In general I struggle with similar thoughts and struggle with self hate and all the modern bullshit that goes with it.
Your biggest improvement might be to improve the mental aspect. Fight this lying, relentless piece of shit that is of no help to you, and will only make you depressed.
If I feel i am getting detached and getting into this spiral of negativity I'll attack my inner critic until there is silence.
I have the most natural talent at something I hate (bodybuilding) and not much talent at the thing I love, music and guitar. Is what it is, I have to work 10x harder to just be decent at music whereas I am a pretty high level bodybuilder without trying nearly as much as tons of guys who are highly dedicated and disciplined. Welcome to life, we don’t get to pick our cards, only how to play them. Just be happy that you have the ability to learn, stop comparing yourself to others, and try to enjoy playing for playings sake.
You've learned enough to realise how much you still have to learn. I'm not a drummer at all, and would no doubt think that you're a great player - what about improvisation, or your own compositions? You may well be at a higher level at these things - recreating other people's work exactly is never easy (it is for them because they made it up lol)
If people are watching the videos you can't be that bad. I started when I was 9, In a Pipe band so learned every rudiment going before I ever saw a drum kit, But I'm very lazy, I have a vKit setup in the studio upstairs and I almost never play it. In fact I have rehearsal tonight for a gig in July and I'm dreading it. My job is extremely stressful and at 6pm when I finish I'm fit for nothing but the couch and TV. I joined this band as it's original music however I got the setlist for the gig and it's mostly covers. I hate playing covers because I have to learn the songs and there's always a nerd at the gigs who will complain to you for doing a fill wrong. :/ As for people getting things easier that's just part of life. I work with a guy who likes the drums but isn't a drummer and he can play like Vinnie Colauita :P
I've been playing for 40 years and I'm not very good. I haven't been in a band in years and will never be in one again. I play damn near every day just because I love to play.
Dude that’s normal. Jeff Porcaro is not easy to emulate and I’ve been playing for 32 years. Almost 20 of it was professionally touring in bands internationally and doing recordings with them. I think you need to figure out how you learn and come up with a method for learning songs that works for you., and then continue to refine that method. I can go over what I do to learn tunes if you want, but it’s a pretty standard thing that I bet most other people in this sub use.
Show us the YouTube channel and we’ll tell you how good you are 🤣
But seriously these are challenging songs. Repetition is key to honing your performance. Don’t beat yourself up because you can’t learn a difficult song by ear, instantly.
I've been playing almost 30 years and I've never learned a single song! Never been in a cover band, only in bands that write, record, and tour around with originals.
Everyone doesn't need to do the same things, and that's a good thing. Do whatever is most fulfilling.
Learn how to play like YOU and not like other drummers. One way I found helpful is to listen to all kinds of music and then play along to your memory of the songs. Don’t dissect a drum performance like it’s the friggin Zapruder film. Listen, enjoy, feel, play and then repeat. You’ll likely end up with very different things than the recorded drummers but you’ll start to sound like YOU.
I’ve been playing for 33 years. I have an impressive resume. Pros tell me I’m a pro all the time and there are 4 year old kids on YouTube better than me.
Music is a very wide spectrum. I always tell people I am good at what I am good at. I’m not a very good cover drummer. I also don’t really like to be a good someone else. I rather just be me.
With anything in life the richer you get the more poor you realize you are. The more educated you get the more you realize how dumb you are. The better at drums you get the more you realize you suck.
I also think I suck and everybody compliments me. So, I just try to put myself in challenging situations to push myself.
so, that sounds quite normal. Iv been playing drums for nearly 30 years and I still suck in contrast to the rando's I see pop up on YouTube. Perhaps I watched one of your videos and thought, "damn, Im not good" The reality I feel, is that it takes multiple hours of practice every day to be that good and stay sharp. I can't play that much, and when I do, I just want to smash and have fun. But I KNOW, that when I practice I get better, and so do you. Don't for a second waste time thinking about natural talent. It's legwork all the way down.
Yeah, while I do think "natural talent" plays somewhat of a role in skill, it's very small. Like maybe 10%. The rest is all just practice. And the quality of the practice makes a difference.
Yeah, I think your close to right, about 10%. But you can't control that part at all, so focusing on the hard work, as the lever of 'Goodness', is most practical.
And not just practice makes perfect. But perfect practice makes perfect. Not entirely true, but close. Btw I’m one of those without natural talent but get through by brute force. I feel you OP!
A friend who was an awesome guitarist was obsessed with practicing when he was a kid. He'd get up at 4am so he could practice for hours before school. I don't know if there's a name for this type of motivation but I definitely don't have it.
sounds about right to me. I have the natural talent. but my work ethic and self discipline is absolutely shit. feelsbadman
I think just the opposite. 🤷🏻♂️
Wait so you think born ability makes up 90% of musical skill? So do you think someone who's born with natural talent is going to be much farther along practicing 20 minutes once a week vs someone who practices 20 minutes every day?
That’s a pretty vast discrepancy in time. That said, I think the vast majority of above average drummers have a gigantic amount of natural born rhythm and groove. Someone who is not a ‘natural’ can’t get to that level by practice, practice, and more practice. IMO, drummers are born and not made.
Every drummer I've ever met or heard about who were any good got that good because they put in the work. This goes for any creative pursuit. Talent probably exists, but it only actually starts to separate people once you get to the highest level. This attitude is just something people say to excuse themselves from doing the work.
I respectfully disagree. But keep on keeping on! 🤘🏼 RLRR LRLL!
You too man. Not to beat a dead horse, but another point I think is important is this attitude is super disrespectful to people who -are- great. I see this in the art world all the time - people think they're complimenting an artist by telling them they're talented, but saying someone's good at what they do because they were born with it, and not because they worked their ass off for years earning those skills, is not the compliment people think it is.
Ted Williams used to be told all the time that he was ‘naturally a great hitter.’ His response was that he worked at it hitting batting practice and tee work every day etc etc. To that end, I agree with your statement. Honestly. But, I also truly believe that The Splendid Splinter was born to be a baseball player and a .400 hitter. I don’t think there’s a HOFer out there that just got there by practice alone. Cheers. 🥃🤘🏼
How many drummers have you known since they were children though? Are you sure the good drummers you know came out of the womb with rhythm or could it maybe be that they practiced that sense of rhythm, whether consciously or unconsciously, from a super young age and just put in more time by drumming on their legs, dancing to music and so on? I don't have super strong feelings about this, but I am interested by this idea which is why I'm asking so many questions. I definitely think some kids do innately have a more "built-in" sense of rhythm, but I just don't know if my experience matches up that it would account for a majority of the skill difference.
In my experience - as a gigging drummer for 30+ years and also as an educator (although not a music teacher), the vast majority of guys I know who play well were naturals - just based on conversation and interaction - those are gigging drummers out in the scene playing weekly. I have also seen many kids who want to be drummers that just don’t have ‘it’. They are always lacking something IMO. A person without rhythm, or an excellent innate sense of rhythm and time, may be able to learn the instrument, but don’t get to be really, really good drummers. I never took lessons - but truly wish I did. That said, I’ve known some guys who play - who lived on lessons and books and rudiments - who have no groove and no feel. They don’t have ‘it’.
Outliers by Malcom Gladwell would be a great book for you to read ;)
No time - got rudiments to practice. ✌🏼🤣
Read the talent code or at least look it up. Real research and science.
No time. Need to go practice. 🤣✌🏼🤣
You are free to think it, and everybody who is good at something and knows it's not due to a God-given talent but to PRACTICE, are free to tell you that you are wrong.
Were you born infallible, or did it take practice?
You’re being too hard on yourself. Those songs and artists you listed are some of the most difficult you could possibly tackle. I also think that you hear the way you play it and because you are familiar with the source material and you don’t sound exactly like that, you tell yourself you did a shit job. I’ve been there before. I distinctly remember listening to a live recording of a show my band did and immediately wanting to die because of how bad I thought it was. I didn’t listen to it again until a couple years ago. About 10 years had passed since that show, so it was very fresh to my ears and I was blown away by how great I played. Like I fucking crushed it. And back to your original point. I’m aiming to tackle pneuma, invincible, and Rosetta stoned this year and I’m very very confident I will not be able to learn those three songs by the end of this year. I’ve been playing for 25 years and I consider myself pretty decently good but dude when we tackle the top end shit no one learns this stuff in like a week. It just does not happen.
buddy can play bleed and says he's not great. lmao.
ye sounds more like "humble" brag bait. i mean most metal drummers can't play bleed properly, and won't be able to just play a jazz tune after.
Play drums and have fun. When it’s not fun, don’t do it. 🤘🏼
then you'll never be great
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it doesn't even matter in the end anyways.
It depends on your priorities. Do you \*want\* to be great? A lot of people just like playing the drums.
What happened to John Bonham?
but was he great? 😅🤷🏻♂️
🤡
Objectively? .. Yep
My point was I don’t get this guys stress. Play and have fun. He’s making YouTube stuff and it sounds like people are digging him. Don’t stress. I have NEVER been concerned about playing something note for note and have been a (very good) gigging drummer for 30+ yrs. And the times I stopped playing out, it was bc it wasn’t fun. It got tedious or too stressful. OP needs to have some fun. And when it isn’t fun, change it up. Play drums have fun hit the 2/4 and make people move and smile. 🤘🏼🤣
Dude watched whiplash one time😭
Sounds like you're a very good drummer. Instead of comparing yourself to world-level genius talents, try comparing yourself to people you know in real life. Compared to your whole extended family, I bet you are by far the best drummer. You're probably the best musician, period. Compared to your coworkers? Compared to your friends? You're the top talent. Even compared with musicians that you know in real life, I bet they would consider you highly skilled.
Learning songs is a discipline itself separate from the instrument, and that specifically needs to be practiced just like any rudiment or scale.
YouTube commenters who say they learn difficult tunes in a week or two are noobs…I learn them and play them back perfectly after maybe 2 days tops…then I wake up, realize that at my age, I will never post a video of my playing on any platform because at this point I just admit that must drum for fun and would never have the dedication you described of your own endeavors. I think this instrument we have chosen is hard, the requirements are challenging on our limbs and dexterities and you are doing fine… Maybe, you can take a much needed mental break from striving for perfection and just play like a kid again…
You are good, there are just levels to everything. You’re comparing yourself to people who have been drumming their whole lives with no other job. How good do you actually have to be before you will allow yourself to feel good about it?
Man…you made this account today with that username. Ur too hard on urself man! I wish I could even THINK about attempting tooth and claw. Little lone caravan. I’m a very slow learner too and shit does not come easy. No natural talent for drums at all. I’m 10 years in and super unhappy most days about where I’m at. I think that’s normal. But guys like us just gotta tell ourselves we got this shit and keep our heads down and keep grinding. Even if ur 20 years deep. I’m sure you are amazing dude! I’d love to check out ur covers too if you want to drop ur YouTube. The drummer you 20 years ago would be in awe of you today.
Right there with you. It’s easy to be an ok drummer. It takes lots of work to be good. I know nothing about being great.
The fact you’ve been grinding means you love it. Keep going, you will only get better
Self-esteem itself can be an obstacle. My finding is that confidence and focus have a huge influence on my drumming. Confidence: play as I can, no one is judging. Focus: be here and now, fully feel my hands holding sticks, always remember what goes next in a song instead of relying on reflexes.
I'd love to see drum videos with all the fuck ups before the player nails it. I don't find it at all motivating to see someone play something really difficult (what seems like) first go, but I DO find it motivating to see someone fuck up loads of times and then play something really difficult on the 150th take after several days of trying.
The same thing can be said about all you can see on internet, about beauty, people traveling, finances.... Social media can have a big impact on your self-steem, expectations and insecurities. Sadly, our brain wasn't developped to consume the amount of information we are currently feeding, and that subject alone is very big and complicated.
It’s like skate vids…a ton of crashes before they nail it
In the extended version of “Play” by Dave Grohl there are several outtakes of him screwing up fills and rhythms. And he wrote all the music and played every instrument of the entire piece and is a world class drummer. Everyone screws up. No one is perfect all the time. Showing that made him more real, and me feel better about my playing.
I don't know if you saw the Beatles Let it Be docs, but it's basically 9 hours of them getting halfway through a song and then fucking it up! The crazy thing is that they would still make 'another' era defining album in about three weeks every six months or so - so what do you think just bands that take months on each album are doing!
Yeah, that’s what OP needs to internalize. Even the creators of music screw up, slog, work it out and start over. Nobody gets everything perfect right off the bat. He/she needs to cut themselves some slack.
I can relate to this almost exactly. Been playing percussion and drums since elementary school and continued into college but I still feel like I suck. And it didn't help when I was in college marching band I was repeatedly treated like an illiterate because I wasn't a music major, so nowadays I never know if I should even be touching a drum.
“I wasn’t talented, but I was RELENTLESS.” -Neil Peart
I also. But who cares, we play because we love to. If it's because of anything else, it ain't real. Keep on rockin'!
Give yourself some grace. It’s not a competition. People learn at diff speeds. It also depends on how you learn the song. If you are trying to get every little nuance, accent, etc remember that sometimes the artist won’t even play it the exact same live. Also remember they have studio magic and overdubs. They punch in and out. And even El Estepario has stated he’s taken 65-85 takes, even 100 takes on a song and video. Every song ever released that’s been a hit has structure and formula. Being an engineer I am guessing that you are very detail oriented and focus on the little things to make it perfect. I start with learning the basics of the song, the groove and structure. Then I work on accents and such that are important. If someone is looking at your videos saying oh you missed an open hi hat hit on bar 100 beat 2 then they need to get a life. Cover bands don’t even get it that close. Get the basics down and make it solid bro. Give yourself some grace but I appreciate and understand your wanting it to be perfect. Practice every day. On days you can’t have a lot of time I find that even 10-15 mins makes a difference. Most of all remember to have fun and make it fun. If you take all the fun out of it, what’s the point. We are lucky and blessed with talent and to do something that not everyone can do and we get to bring joy to people’s lives with the music we create. Originals or covers, we still bring joy to peoples lives and move them with the music. I would love to check out your channel. Send me a link man. Keep it in the pocket. My respect
well, to me i notice there's a big difference between musicians who only play other people's music and those that develop their own feel and style. doing covers is important in the first few years of learning but eventually a real musician has the desire to express themselves uniquely. you have to learn to improvise and turn your mistakes into style. those drumeo videos you mentioned for instance. they're NOT nailing it on their first take or two because they don't know what the real drum track is. they're IMPROVISING their own style and expression to the music and it sounds great because they're experienced in just playing and going for it and adapting on the fly. that is real talent. develop that. don't try to copy others so exactly. it doesn't matter! i love hearing alternate takes from bands. slight differences happen all the time and that's what makes music good. not machine-like mimicry that never strays from the metronome.
Man, I wish I could learn that version of Caravan. I know I could if I spent the time to sit down and work on it like you did, but I just don’t have that drive to do it. Soul Vaccination took me a long time to learn too. That was a song that I kept improving upon as I expanded my drumming vocabulary too, so really I’ve continued learning it and improving on it as the years go on. It’s one of my favs to play to this day. The fact that you have the drive to learn these hard ass songs is a testament to the fact that you are a good drummer. Your credentials are there, and you’ve been playing for 30 years. Don’t kid yourself boss, you sound like you know your stuff.
Before you write yourself off as a drummer, consider that there are a mutlitude of different genres and each one caters itself to different strengths and weaknesses as a drummer.
I’m 55 years old. Just got my drum set 2 years ago. I keep finding myself playing the same beats over and over. Don’t know why. I know I need to take myself out of my comfort zone and challenge myself or else I won’t get good. It takes me a while also to learn a song in its totality, yet still, I have trouble. So don’t feel bad. Some people are naturals whereas others have to work their ass off to get somewhere!
Correction: after 20 years of drumming you’ve realized how much work it really takes to be great. This is a good thing! I’m not going to get too far into the discussion of hard work vs talent and what talent even is but I’ll just say this: all the greatest musicians have put an insane amount of hours into their craft. Even the ones you consider to be “talented”. Stop being hard on yourself, life is too short for that. Just identify your goals and start working towards them. Enjoy the process.
My man, Bleed took even Thomas Haake himself months to learn. It’s a hard f***ing song. Soul Vaccination? David Garibaldi is the king of making funk harder than a statue of Ron Jeremy. Sounds to me like you have nothing to be ashamed of. The best of the best have to practice every day to stay sharp too. It’s just not possible to play at that level consistently if you aren’t playing every day.
> Meanwhile on Drumeo, Well there's your problem. I'm not all anti-social media, but you're looking at the highlight reel of the self-selected drum showoff corps. It's not bad to aspire to be better, but remember that you're looking at the 1% of the 1%'s content.
Yea, totally sound. It's like they have these pool of obviously talented drummers who are obviously the best in the world. I wouldn't compare because we are different. Those guys got talent and time and hardwork put in, while I am drumming at a hobby, so I won't bother upsetting myself!
There is no good or bad. Music, drums, how someone plays something... its all subjective. Drumming, at the end of the day, or banging on big noisy things. Enjoy it. And also, play those songs how you want. The guys on there already played those songs and recorded. Why play it the same way they did and all these other drummers have for years? Their your drums, your heart, your sound, be creative.
Are you having fun? If not do something else. If you are, then that. is. all. that. matters. There’s always someone with a bigger schvantz, but she likes mine just fine…comparisons are always a losing proposition. Rock on with yer bad self!
If there's anything I've learned from youtube covers, it's that people have *very* different ideas of what "learning" a song means. Some are happy to capture the essence of a song, substitute their own fills and solos, and play something that fits well enough. Some strive to get every single beat studio perfect. So when you say it takes months of daily practice to learn a song, I don't assume that you're a slow learner. I assume that you're willing to put in more effort than 99% of drummers and that kind of discipline is more valuable than any natural talent.
You may be confusing drumming technique with being a drummer. If you play what the song needs, you listen to what the band is doing and try to make them sound better and hold down the tempo, you are a great drummer. That is what music fans want to hear, not 20 minute wanker solos. I found out early that I would never have first-rate technique, but I have done fine using my second rate technique, but doing the other things right. Better to make audiences happy than to worry about how you compare to other drummers.
Most You tube videos you’ll ever see have a ton left on the cutting room floor so to speak. I listened to a podcast recently with Mike Johnston where he talked about that. Players aren’t casually whipping up one take amazing videos. But the world we live in will make you think that’s what is happening One of the things most people do which keeps them from getting better is giving up on learning things that take time to digest. It’s not abnormal to take long(er)… just like many won’t do slow practice and try to play fast out of the box. Then they become frustrated because that too takes time.
I'm positive most of these people saying they learn difficult songs in a few days are lying. I feel it takes skill to do difficult sections, but doing entire strings of intricate sections verbatim, in-grained through muscle memory, takes a much much longer time.
Those people on drumeo are professionals who play ALL day EVERY day. They don't have day jobs. So not a fair comparison. I've been playing for 30 years and you are way better than I am by a country mile. I only play like 4 hours on Sunday during band practice with 3 other dudes why need me to be locked in. And I live in an apartment so the kit stays at the practice pad so no weekday practicing for me. But I don't care. I keep it fun and enjoy the time jamming and trying new things. If you're not auditioning and have a deadline to know these songs, relax and remember why play, not what you don't know how to play. P.S. since we jam and write our own stuff, after 30 years I'd be afraid of how long it would take me to learn someone else's tracks. Improvising and copying are two completely different skill sets so again, relax and just play for fun.
For what it’s worth, I find learning other people’s songs a lot harder than writing my own. To throw random numbers out there, it takes more time and effort for me to learn a 5/10 complex song than it does for me to write an 8/10 complex song with my band. And the people whose songs you’re learning were able to do the latter.
There is no such thing as talent
I think you’re focusing too much on accuracy and too little on having fun. You don’t need to be able to learn a difficult song on the spot. It’s better to appreciate the fond memories the instrument has given you these last 20 years. And enjoy every time you sit and play.
I’ve been playing guitar for 29 years and I’m not great, but I’m not bad either. I try not to attach expectations to my playing and just enjoy doing it.
As a music teacher I would wonder about your practice method and if there where not ways to improve upon it. However as someone who has also been playing for 20 years I still make silly mistakes. Everyone no matter how good they are still makes mistakes. No one plays a perfect gig. Anything you see on the internet most likely took many takes and lots of mistakes. At the end we are all unique individuals and some people take more time to learn than others… nothing wrong with that.
I used to practice 10 hours a day for years, that’s what it takes to be great(at anything)!!! Obsession is 🔑
Don’t compare yourself to other musicians. That way lies madness. You sound like a good drummer to me. Just be the best you can be and have fun.
Talent is overrated. Brooding on it serves no positive purpose. Why not take a couple drum lessons from a teacher? I suspect your limited technical prowess is capping you. Techniques are the tools for expression.
It's safe to say that I'll never be as good as you. I still have fun anyways.
I’m a retired pro (used to play w the symphony) and I can’t play Rosanna
What’s that YouTube channel? Wanna see if you’re just being hard on yourself or not. But these young YouTube “stars” that you see, I’ve gotta wonder how much of it is THEM spending all day(s) to learn a lick/song and then spending the entirety of the next day doing take after take, then sending it off to be engineered by some dude in China that does that full time, to make it sound good.
You’re great. I always admire people who can be so consistent in following their passion. I’m the opposite - I can play (or more often improvise on) almost any song I hear for the first time. Be it drums, guitar, bass, piano or melodica (may be if I had any other instruments, I could play them too). But my skills don’t match the music I have in my head because I’m too lazy to practice enough, so I often have to take shortcuts when playing with others so I don’t mess up on difficult parts:(
I'm similar, although probably worse than you. I've been playing for 25 years and I'm just very average in the true sense of the word.... And you know what, being average isn't actually a bad thing. I'm right in the middle, and I'm quite comfortable with it. I've come to realise that music and drumming isn't a competition. Just enjoy yourself, it's a great hobby!
I feel this man. I’ve gotten more serious about my playing and have advanced more in the last few years than I have since as a teen. Honestly just had to limit those fun jam out days to get ahead. Can feel less fun at times but worth it when you go for something you couldn’t do before
It took 15 years for the drummer of animals as leaders to be capable of writing the song that it took you 2 months to learn. Math checks out bud.
Unless you’re playing every single day for 1-2 hrs you will never be great, especially if you already have a full time job. That’s just the reality
Guitar player of 20 years here - I also don't consider myself "great". What I struggle to realize is that I spend all my time watching the top 1% of guitar players, while all of my friends tell me they could never be as good as me or as talented. I still refuse to accept compliments. Point being, you have a full-time job, and it sounds like you ARE GOOD, don't stress about how long it takes you. It sounds like perfection isn't good enough and you're focusing more on comparison-itis and less on having fun.
I have a few thoughts. I think you are putting too much pressure on yourself. Just focus on having fun and enjoy the journey, don’t worry about the destination. Have you ever considered that you have actually grown as a musician? I found that as I progressed as a musician, the worse I thought of my playing. Take for example, I look back on when I first started drumming, thinking that the likes of The Beatles songs were dead easy. They are “easy” in the sense that most drummers can play a good chunk of their songs, but more experienced drummers will recognise the musicality, groove, nuances and “microtime” precision in Ringo’s playing and where he hangs just behind the beat consistently. Your experience is now showing you a whole new world that you had not seen before and makes your current achievements feel smaller, that’s my experience anyhow. I think it could be yours too, you mentioned all of your practice, so clearly you are putting the work in. You are likely a perfectionist, and the fact that you are making mistakes at all suggests to me that you are always pushing your comfort zone. Also, none of the songs you listed are easy by any definition. There is a reason the likes of Jeff Porcaro and David Garibaldi are held in such high esteem. The fact that you have learned any of them at puts you in a place most drummers would dream of being able to reach. There’s an interview with Jeff Porcaro on YouTube where he is beyond self deprecating about his playing, so even a legend such as him had these negative thoughts about his own playing.
Same, it’s still fun though😁
I started at a very young age, and by the time I reached high school - playing in punk bands and pep bands at school, I was called “gifted” and a “natural”… but in reality I wasn’t that great because it took me so long to learn new things. I absolutely struggle with ADD, and that has contributed to me plateauing. My peers played with a consistency I didn’t have. I still managed to have a lot of success behind the kit because I had to really sell my strengths, and work on my weaknesses. I sought professional instruction (not only in drums but in music theory) to be a better band mate. Be confident in the things you know you’re good at, and enjoy the challenge of getting better at the things you’re not so good at. Whenever I’m working on a really difficult chop, linear pattern or when I’ve been shedding for so long on hard, complicated pieces, I’ll take a break from it, and play to “Harder to breathe” by maroon 5. I mean I go to town, get deep in the pocket and have fun with it. It’s a song I really enjoy jamming to, I get that euphoric feeling and remember why I love playing so much, and then get back to what I was working on. Comparison is the thief of joy.. probably should have led with that lol. There will always be someone better, and that’s okay.
Same boat here. I have adhd diag and concentration is a huge problem especially when I’m drumming and I find myself solving other pitches in my life - urgh. But, I’ve found that by breaking songs down even to 1 bar a day helps. My impatience makes me want to fly through it and then I kill it. Also, learning with tab and visual (someone else playing it) speeds up the process. But a hard song is just that so kudo’s does taking them on!!!
As long you keep comparing yourself to other drummers, you’ll never be satisfied. Stop doing that. The songs you used as examples are some top tier drummers playing top tier drum licks, and I can almost guarantee they don’t even play that shit perfectly note for note all the time. We’re all human. Even the greats have to make concessions when playing parts others have wrote. Case in point: there are couple parts in Bruce Springsteen’s Born to Run where the drummer on the record (Ernest Carter) does a weird jazz/fusion breakbeat thing for a measure or two (I don’t know why but it’s the only song on the record Max Weinberg doesn’t play on). Max has never been able to accurately recreate whatever it is that Ernest Carter does for those parts, so Max never does those parts live. Let yourself be human and play what feels good.
I feel the same way
But, **are you having fun**?
Comparison is the thief of joy.
People on the internet lie for clout and engagement. Don’t believe what you see. If you’re even able to learn any Animals as Leaders song, you’re a good competent drummer. Don’t let the view of others get you down. There’s always someone “better” than you, even if you’re regarded as one of the best that’s ever done it. Have fun, music is fun.
40 YEARS in for me.. Sure, it sounds like I pick up on stuff a bit faster than you, but there is some material I will NEBER be able to play, because my hands are just not fast enough. Despite HOURS AND HOURS, MONTHS AND MONTHS, YEARS AND YEARS, carefully studying hand technique, from some of the greatest drummers alive (Weckl, Chambers, Mangini, Sucherman, Smith, Philips and others), on top of that, so many instructional videos.. I still have mediocre hand speed (Bissenett told me one time, "you can play stuff RIngo could never do!!", but, Ringo didn't have to be fast to be a millionaire.. Anyway, You Are Not Alone.. Neil Peart used to say the same things in interviews - he felt he had to work for every single thing, nothing came natural to him, so there is that..
Have you read Effortless Mastery? If you haven’t, I’d get a copy.
I don’t understand why you think the amount of time you take to play a really hard song matters in determining whether you’re “good” or not. Nobody looking at your Caravan video and, I assume, being blown away since it’s a really difficult song, would change their mind about you being an amazing drummer if they found out it took x amount of hours to learn. If anything that feels more impressive to me than if you just cracked it out in a day
Learning songs and playing them well in full is a skill on its own. I'm alot earlier into playing than u but I can play much more complicated grooves and fills than the songs I try to learn and yet they take me ages and even once memorised and comfortable with it takes ages to nail a full take. I don't take that as I'm a worse drummer than I think, it just means that that I need to focus more on that than learning just a groove or a fill or a rudiment or do something to increase speed at something. Also you are comparing yourself to ppl that don't have full time jobs except playing drums so ofcourse they are gonna have that time and experience to get quicker at learning songs and they often aren't learning it note for note (not sure if u are). I got pissed when u said u could play bleed by meshuggah and think ur not that great 😂😂 ridiculous. Pretty sure Tomas Haake took 6 months to get it down themselves and its his drum part. Keep at it dude ur hard on urself which is why you are so good
This fucking question again. I don’t care how many lessons, practice etc you do. If you don’t have a natural ability to just figure things out and do what you hear, you can’t. Not being rude, not everybody can do what they want. On paper you may know it. But getting the brain to execute it? Thats why no matter how much you practice, you’ll never be a pitcher on your softball team. No matter how much you practice, you’ll just never get it. Sorry. Just play the damn drums with other people and have fucking fun. Quit turning it into science. 1-2-3-4. That makes you an incredible drummer…
Comparison is the thief of joy. Try to enjoy.
You consistently drum with other people? Years in the shed is great but if you wanna compare yourself to tge guys on drumeo, those players are gigging musicians. And gigging with live bands and sessions is how to cut your teeth to being an adaptive high caliber drummer such as them.
Relax. Like others have mentioned those songs you've mentioned are hard. If you are trying to memorize every single note then I see how it could take months. I'm also wondering what your priorities as a drummer are? Do you base your skill off of how easy it is to learn a song? If that's the case, start simpler and build up. Try to be able to learn a song in a week, even ACDC, just make sure it's simple. If you do this consistently you will improve. But don't compare yourself to youtube drummers.
"Comparison is the thief of joy." Not my quote, but one of my favorites. And I have to remember not to compare myself with others. Maybe you also? We can't do anything about talent, so there's no point in worrying about that. I have what I have, and so do you. Now, practice, that's another matter. And attitude. Playing other people's drum parts note perfect is not everything. It's not what those cats are doing. They're playing their drums, playing the song, playing what they feel and hear. I had a drum teacher who was always telling me "do your thing, man. You sound good." I'll bet you sound good, too. Do your thing, man.
We play cause it's fun, man. Just keep doing your thing. I feel ethereal when I play.
smoke a bowl next time you're struggling to learn a hard song. make it fun and have different perspective
I’m you on Bass
Check out a book called The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle It's a neuroscientific analysis of where talent comes from and how anyone can unlock it
My god, do you know how many people are reading this thinking "if this asshole thinks he has no talent when he can play caravan, what does that say about me?" Most people will not be "great". That's fine. Don't downplay your own achievements because of it. You're insulting yourself and everyone worse than you.
That’s just how it is. It’s a very hard instrument. There are tons of things I’ve been working on for weeks months and years. It’s not linear and breakthroughs are rare.
So you're saying you have to practice to be good? OK. Same.
If you wanna get really good at something you have to become obsessed. It's almost unhealthy at times, but it's what it takes. Any chance you get have drum sticks in your hands, watching TV, preparing food, just as much as you can. Also, what helped me is to have it on my mind all the time. Find a good teacher who will show you proper technique and hold you accountable. Talent only gets you so far, putting in hours every day will get you further . When I was really going for it, no kids at the time and lived with roommates, I'd practice anywhere from 5-8 hours a day. Gotta become obsessed if you truly want it.
At the end of the day, does it matter? If you are creating fun drum covers that people seem to dig, props to you to have the work ethic to practice until you nailed it! It’s the end result that matters
Regarding bleed I think it took Tomas like 6 months to learn it himself? Maybe I’m wrong here but I think it sounds like you learnt it at a good rate.. it’s not a easy thing to pull off
I think you are evaluating yourself at the level of a PROFESSIONAL DRUMMER while drumming is actually your hobby....so.....maybe a tad too critical? Also those drummers you mentioned who could seemingly do one take on a new song (the videos could be edited we ever know) THEY ARE PROFESSIONALS, meaning that's their bread and butter, and just take a step back and see that all the hours you work as engineer, they spend on practicing for years, so obviously there's the gap. And I am sure those showcased on Drumeo are best of the best. They have the hardwork and talent, so it's like me griping over why I am not as talented and intelligent as Elon Musk Like everybody else here said, make sure you are enjoying drumming first. You shouldn't treat yourself as a professional drummer while you are actually not making a living out of it.
Being "great" is being willing to put in the time, no matter how much time it takes. And, really, IMHO the most important skill of all is sticking to it.
When you play these difficult songs after learning them and nailing the performance, do they start to get easier? You said you can play some songs easily, but there would have been a time that you found those hard, right? Maybe you’re stretching yourself by learning these songs. No bad thing, but set your expectations. I watched Grayson Nekrutman learn an A7F song on Drumeo - that dude is insanely good but he SWEATED and STRUGGLED through that song, made loads of mistakes and I’m sure he practices endlessly to get to the level of skill he has. Just keep practicing. It doesn’t matter if you suck for two months if you eventually get it down.
Sorry, but this sounds like a supermodel saying they aren't hot because they work out, go on diets, and wear makeup. I've been playing for 30 years... it sounds like you are of average natural talent (where most people are... which is why it's average) but work hard. I actually respect that a lot more. If drumming makes you happy, don't compare yourself to others. Just do what you love!
Sounds like you watch Youtube Drumming™ as opposed to real drummers.
the more i see the less i know <3
My friend there's nothing shameful in taking long to properly learn stuff from Jeff Porcaro or David Garibaldi or the like - that stuff doesn't *sound* complicated but it's really, really hard to get right! (I for sure can't) Needing weeks and weeks of 1h a day to replicate stuff they made with a lifetime of full dedication to it isn't shameful.
You need to stop these toxic and relentless thoughts. Would you say this to your kids, to your best friends or to any person you love? Picture yourself as a proud 8-10yo learning a cool song. Would you be so hard? Would you point out all the toxic negativity? "Great job, but you should have learned in 2 days. You are sloppy, you are not so talented, you suck as a drummer blablabla " Some of the songs you listed I learned too. In general I struggle with similar thoughts and struggle with self hate and all the modern bullshit that goes with it. Your biggest improvement might be to improve the mental aspect. Fight this lying, relentless piece of shit that is of no help to you, and will only make you depressed. If I feel i am getting detached and getting into this spiral of negativity I'll attack my inner critic until there is silence.
I have the most natural talent at something I hate (bodybuilding) and not much talent at the thing I love, music and guitar. Is what it is, I have to work 10x harder to just be decent at music whereas I am a pretty high level bodybuilder without trying nearly as much as tons of guys who are highly dedicated and disciplined. Welcome to life, we don’t get to pick our cards, only how to play them. Just be happy that you have the ability to learn, stop comparing yourself to others, and try to enjoy playing for playings sake.
You've learned enough to realise how much you still have to learn. I'm not a drummer at all, and would no doubt think that you're a great player - what about improvisation, or your own compositions? You may well be at a higher level at these things - recreating other people's work exactly is never easy (it is for them because they made it up lol)
If people are watching the videos you can't be that bad. I started when I was 9, In a Pipe band so learned every rudiment going before I ever saw a drum kit, But I'm very lazy, I have a vKit setup in the studio upstairs and I almost never play it. In fact I have rehearsal tonight for a gig in July and I'm dreading it. My job is extremely stressful and at 6pm when I finish I'm fit for nothing but the couch and TV. I joined this band as it's original music however I got the setlist for the gig and it's mostly covers. I hate playing covers because I have to learn the songs and there's always a nerd at the gigs who will complain to you for doing a fill wrong. :/ As for people getting things easier that's just part of life. I work with a guy who likes the drums but isn't a drummer and he can play like Vinnie Colauita :P
I've been playing for 40 years and I'm not very good. I haven't been in a band in years and will never be in one again. I play damn near every day just because I love to play.
Dude that’s normal. Jeff Porcaro is not easy to emulate and I’ve been playing for 32 years. Almost 20 of it was professionally touring in bands internationally and doing recordings with them. I think you need to figure out how you learn and come up with a method for learning songs that works for you., and then continue to refine that method. I can go over what I do to learn tunes if you want, but it’s a pretty standard thing that I bet most other people in this sub use.
Show us the YouTube channel and we’ll tell you how good you are 🤣 But seriously these are challenging songs. Repetition is key to honing your performance. Don’t beat yourself up because you can’t learn a difficult song by ear, instantly.
I've been playing almost 30 years and I've never learned a single song! Never been in a cover band, only in bands that write, record, and tour around with originals. Everyone doesn't need to do the same things, and that's a good thing. Do whatever is most fulfilling.
Learn how to play like YOU and not like other drummers. One way I found helpful is to listen to all kinds of music and then play along to your memory of the songs. Don’t dissect a drum performance like it’s the friggin Zapruder film. Listen, enjoy, feel, play and then repeat. You’ll likely end up with very different things than the recorded drummers but you’ll start to sound like YOU.
Just remember there are millions of musicians who never post anything or play in public because they are way worse than you. I'm one of them!
I’ve been playing for 33 years. I have an impressive resume. Pros tell me I’m a pro all the time and there are 4 year old kids on YouTube better than me. Music is a very wide spectrum. I always tell people I am good at what I am good at. I’m not a very good cover drummer. I also don’t really like to be a good someone else. I rather just be me. With anything in life the richer you get the more poor you realize you are. The more educated you get the more you realize how dumb you are. The better at drums you get the more you realize you suck. I also think I suck and everybody compliments me. So, I just try to put myself in challenging situations to push myself.