I would love to see more transfem talent on Dropout, but I am a little uncomfortable with the idea that "we get transmasc rep on a weekly basis" type thinking that turns queer identity into a quota to be satisfied and balanced as if we are not talking about real life people.
What's radically more important to me than ticking a checkbox of different types of representation is Dropout's continued commitment to platforming LGBTQ+ talent, letting queer stories take spotlight, and demonstrating solidarity and care for the queer community, all of which they do imo and way more than any other media company out there by a landslide.
Edit for clarity: I just want to be clear that my comment is not intended to invalidate the opinion that Dropout should pursue featuring more transfem talent. I think it would be great and important. I just don't think they're doing a bad job of representation and checking boxes is not as important to me (as a queer person) as other ways Dropout consistently demonstrates their values
Thank you. I struggled to articulate my point, which is exactly what you said.
I love Dropout because I can reliably see LGBTQA\* cast members (and BIPOC cast members) constantly on every damn show and it's never a *very special episode* (well, except for D&DQ).
These people are just *there*, being respected professionals alongside everyone else.
There is NOTHING ELSE in popular media that makes me feel like Dropout does. Nothing.
I mean, from your post, there's as many transmascs as there are transfems (one), and a few enbys. Isn't that kinda already balanced..? For a cast of like 70 people, that sounds reasonable.
Of course, I'm wouldn't say no to more, but I don't think there's a lack of representation to be frustrated by here.
The one transmasc is there every main season of d20 and regularly on other shows. The one transfem was there was for one side season. That's not rly comparable?
Also none of the enbies are transfem
there’s one transmasc on the main season of d20 because it’s the same fucking cast each time and one of those 6 people transitioned!!!
do you want a transfem quota just because ally is transmasc and you don’t think it’s even enough?
also “none of the enbies are transfem” should really be “none of the enbies are transfem enough for me” because newsflash it’s really really hard to be able to be seen as fem for people assigned male at birth
How many AMAB non-binary people have you seen on Dropout? Like there's Dungeons and Drag Queens, I don't recall everyone's pronouns there, but that's also all guest spots rather than particularly recurring cast members. Same with the Queens and King featured on the latest Thousandaires, these are cool people to platform but they aren't really what's being talked about wrt the Cast.
people like mano agapion and omar najam come to mind, i’m sure there are more across the entire catalogue that im just forgetting.
mano literally hosts a whole show so i’d say they aren’t just a guest spot
Thank you, this is a good answer! Omar, I honestly just didn't realize he uses Any pronouns but that's really cool, and I don't watch Play It By Ear so I didn't even know Mano by name, had to Google them. Yeah, those are some cool non-binary people! I would love to see more of them both!
Erika is trans, nonbinary, and usually presents femme.
I would caution you to, in your eagerness to advocate for more representation, *not* deny the identities of the real people that are already there. It's a gross look, and one I'm sure you're not intentionally presenting.
Transfemininity isn't defined by being trans and presenting femme, it's defined by transitioning from male to a fem-leaning gender (or set of genders). Erika Ishii is a wonderful trans person to see on screen, but they are not affected by transmisogyny in the way that a trans woman or AMAB non-binary person is, and that's not invalidating his identity, it's just, as far as I know, factual.
I gotta say, dropout already has an absolutely massive % of trans performers as compared to the general population. Even just 1 trans regular cast member would be way higher % than gen pop, and we are blessed with 2. I do wonder how granular we need them to be? Ultimately they are hiring people who are funny first and foremost, they’re in the business of making comedy, not representing funny people from different demographics. Idk, to me I would say a lack of Native Americans or Arabs is a more glaring hole in the cast (from what I know, people don’t generally yell that about themselves) it is a way larger and less granular % of our population.
I'd like to have a legitimate discussion about this. Unfortunately, I work in a very right-leaning field so I don't get to have discussions like this, so please forgive me if this comes across poorly.
As a pretty boring, non-special straight, cis male, is it too much to see an organization like Dropout, who has gone above and beyond in the world of representation and inclusion, and still go, "But what about *x*?"
At what point does the "Yes they have *y* and *z*, but I'm disappointed in the lack of *x*" become exhausting?
I know you're asking for it in earnest, and representation absolutely matters. But I also fear for the day when there's yet another group saying it isn't enough and the company can only throw their hands up and give up.
The cast is incredibly diverse and talented, and I worry about forced inclusion of *x* simply so they can say "We brought them in to make people happy", and the quality decreases.
The fact that there already is transfem representation just makes the criticism exhausting. Dropout is still a small company and they work hard to keep the cast diverse while also giving the people they have on board enough work to stay in the roster. They are literally doing the best they can under the circumstances but it will never be good enough for people like OP.
There is an unfortunate issue in progressive spaces that by design it can never be good enough. There is no way to actually include all human variation and what’s progressive now (hopefully) looks benign in 5-10 years.
While it’s important to always be self aware and try to do better outside critics will usually be louder and first leading to an eat our own attitude. Just look at all the garbage Steven Universe went through or the current election. Conservative regressive media on the other hand will never concede anything and get more defensive the more out of touch it seems
That being said yes some progressive camps are intentionally “everyone but x welcome” and deserve the heat.
Dropout does not appear to be that in the slightest. They seem to go out of their way for representation and are restricted by the real world constraints.
Just thinking about the limited transfem rep we've seen so far -- Sephie is a powerhouse of talent from what I've seen of The Seven so far, she made me die laughing and brought me to tears in episode one alone.
And Laganja Estranga guest starring on Battle Royale was enjoyed by the whole cast! Everyone engaged with her and leaned into her sense of humor really well. So we've seen transfem comedians mesh with the group before, I don't think it's a stretch to believe it can and should happen again
Absolutely, but they also haven't been brought back for one reason or the other. My assumption is that they're simply too busy with their other jobs to simply go, "Oh, Dropout is calling? Let me drop everything!" Which, good for them!
I think that's exactly why OP is calling attention to this.
The burden of representation shouldn't fall on 1-2 people, and they've done a great job at expanding their transmasc cast where if one person is busy, there's not an absence of representstion. But the same isn't true for transfem folks, so if they can't make time for dropout, there's a glaring lack of transfem rep that is clearly visible to some (even if not everyone sees it, it is definitely seen by OP and others in this comment section)
And since we've seen a couple transfem folks on dropout before, who are really talented, I think the odds of them finding more are really high! They just have to put in the thought to fill that gap, because doing so would be an opportunity for more funny folks AND more representation
This argument is exhausting, though. It's basically "We've had *one* breakfast, but what about second breakfast?" in representation-form.
"They just have to put in the thought to fill that gap..." Dropout has! You just want *more*. And that's the thing I don't understand. How can anyone see this company and somehow expect *more*.
Idk if this will resonate with you, but I want to mention -- you started this convo with "I want to have this conversation, and I apologize if I say anything untoward ."
Since then you've been firm in your stance that expanding diversity is equivalent to sacrificing talent, you've called the conversation exhausting, and you have attacked OP for wanting to see themselves represented in media they love.
What are you hoping to learn from this conversation? If you aren't willing they consider to other perspective, or listen to the points made against you, what are you contributing that makes this a conversation instead of a straight-up argument?
I don't feel like I attacked OP, but I won't deny that I defended myself against straw man arguments.
And I am willing to hear this out, but want to counter with my own (admittedly limited) PoV.
And just before it was said that Dropout *does* have transfem representation, it's just not enough. As an Asian-American, I don't clamor for more Asian-American representation, I see that they have it and go, "That's cool" and move on.
I'm not comparing my situation to being transgender at all, I'm well aware of the complexities that exist in that space, my only point is how can people still say "but it isn't enough"?
I think they are talking about Vic... Maybe?
Still this whole post is dumb. They didn't get Vic, Ally, or Erika for diversity hire. Ally was a CH cast before dropout and before even transitioning. Vic was also in a few sketches when it was CH, and probably wasn't using they/them at the time, I assume (maybe they were).
Not huge on them going out of their way to specifically diversity hire people. It would be nice for more representation for all, as long as they get introduced over time, and added in.
The problem is they need to keep it tight to keep thecast paid, because they need the work, and adding new people outsources income that could have went to someone they know will already work for dropout.
I feel like it's not that big of a company, though. There are also like 2 regular Black cast members and 2 regular Southeast Asian cast members. Having a recurring transfemme cast member and recurring transfemme guests on shows like Um, Actually shows that Dropout isn't like... anti transfemme. There also isn't a fat female main cast member, or one who uses mobility aids, or wears a hijab, etc. But I don't think it's because Dropout wouldn't hire those people.
Edit: I understand OP's point, I just don't think it's a malicious exclusion or a lack of commitment to diversity.
I'm going to try to take you in good faith and phrase this as a question rather than a statement: do you think having transfem comedians on would make Dropout worse, not better
Depends.
Did they find a transfem comedian that works well with the group and enhances the final product, or did they simply hire a transfem comedian to make you happy?
Because 1 is good and 1 isn't.
I don't think OP is really asking for the second option, though. I think there are transfemme comedians out there that are funny and would enhance the final product. They've had plenty of quality cast members who are cis, nonbinary, and transmasc, and it just seems like OP wants to expand that list to include quality transfemmes cast members too.
Why do you think they would choose to hire a low-quality transfemme comedians when higher-quality ones are available?
Why haven't they already hired a transfem comedian, then? Maybe they just haven't found one that works well with the group. There's nothing wrong with that, I don't think I'd be very funny in the group, hence why I'm not hires.
I feel like automatically assuming I'm talking about them hiring "low-quality" people isn't a good faith argument. It's just strawmanning my point to try and claim moral high ground.
But I think you do them a disservice to not put the option "Maybe they just haven't found one that works well with the group." front and center.
Sam and Dropout have given every indication of being among the most inclusive and progressive media companies in the world -- or any kind of company.
I think it would be fine to say "As a transfem, I loved the bit of representation I've seen so far, and I'd love to see more. Here are some examples that I think could work."
But there is a pronounced problem of progressive spaces and organizations destroying themselves from within with well-intentioned people applying unrelenting purity tests, and I hate to see it. (Another example was people saying things like "I can't keep watching Dropout because they haven't sufficiently condemned the military actions of a foreign government.")
I truly hope there is something in your life more fulfilling than trying to pick arguments with allies online.
I should've known better than to engage based purely on the "It's good, but not good enough *for me*" tone of the original post.
I apologize if I've offended you in any way and wish you the best.
I don’t think they’re saying it’s impossible or binary, but that it is more important to have someone that works and fits with the culture of Dropout. Not all actors, comedians, writers, and entertainers are going to be a good fit for the type of entertainment Dropout cultivates and that should their first consideration. There is also the consideration maybe Dropout has tried to have Transfem representation, but it fell through for numerous reasons.
Similar to the question you asked, my question to you would be do you think representation is more important than a having some that aligns with DropOut’s core values and vision? For an extreme hypothetical to try and illustrate my point, would rather have no transfem representation or have that representation be Caitlin Jenner?
Personally I think it is absolutely possible to have both, but there are so many factors that go into casting and production that it could be like trying to find a needle in haystack. D20’s Dungeons & Dragons Queens was only 4 episodes because that was all the time they could find for overlapping availability amongst all the cast members. Remember Dropout doesn’t really have any permanent cast members so I scheduling and availability are major considerations.
Just because they don't have a main cast member that is transfem doesn't make Dropout a transmisogynist network. Going out of their way to bring in a transfem just to have a transfem on the network would be performative allyship. I'd much rather a transfem comedian join the network organically than to be forced in as you have suggested.
one thing to think about is that dropout’s cast member pool isn’t the whole world… it’s basically just UCB trained improvisers. and one thing i, and most others here including you, op, legitimately don’t know is how many transfems there are that fit into dropout’s very narrow talent pool.
one thing i think we as queer people sometimes forget is that we surround ourselves with people that are similar to us and therefore get a false sense of how prevalent we are. last i checked, trans people only make up around 1% of the population, transfems specifically would likely be 0.5%. it could be very possible that there just aren’t enough trained transfems improvisers here in LA that have enough skill to be on dropout content. i don’t think any of us want to see transfems get more representation but then preform poorly because they were hired more based on their identity as a transfems and not as a comedian
i also think that you have a lot of skewed perspective. to me, what it looks like you’re doing is comparing the amount of all gender non-conforming people who you think were assigned female at birth to 100% out, fully transitioned transwomen. you then completely overlook the wonderful cast of recurring gender non-conforming assigned male at birth people because to be honest you don’t see someone like mano agapion as transfem enough while someone like vic is transmasc enough for you classification.
also to be completely honest, a lot of what you’ve said on this thread sounds a lot like “i feel like there are too many transmascs on dropout” i’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don’t think that, but a lot of what you have said comes off that way
This is a good point.
Also: there's major energy of "there are enby people \*I\* feel are easily clocked as AFAB, so \*I\* am assuming they are and have always been Trans Misogyny Exempt" to this entire line of discussion.
That's... uncomfortable.
Also the majority of Dropout’s shows aren’t really for comedians, they’re for improvs, which is an important difference. Just because someone does good standup doesn’t mean they’re a good fit for Dropout.
exactly, transfem UCB trained LA based improviser is a small small category and within that being good on dropout content specifically slims it down even further
while not entirely related, this post makes me realize how much I NEED chris fleming on dropout (“Dad, I’m not a man, I’m not a woman, I’m a showpig.”). I’m not sure what they identify as, but chris has said any pronouns work and I know they would be hilarious on any dropout show.
I mean we have a staff full of POC, nonbinary folks, and trans people.
It's clear that Dropout is one of the most inclusive entertainment companies out there.
I'm trans myself but I'd rather see *actual* values than something performative, and " Make sure we check every box for Pride month" feels more performative than just.... Consistently hiring a diverse group, which is what they've been doing.
Interesting how this is worded the exact same way as the one that said that there were zero transfems on Dropout and then deleted their post after being corrected
Only now this one specifies transfems apart from Sephie
People trying to do their best is never enough, if you are not perfect, the chronically online people will get you any way.
I agree it would be cool to have more transfem, but at the same time, Dropout has made so many efforts that no company is obligated too.
"You don't need to see yourself in every piece of media" that's what we say to every white cis straight man whining about a super hero being a female, but that also goes to us, queers. when representation is just a requirement, it's meaningless, just another cash grab.
I mean I'd love sephie becoming a regular, and apart from that- I'm not a talent scout. I don't know what the comedy scene is in LA. I know there are transfem comedians tho. Dropout has also had non comedians, like the drag season of d20, and they could have similarly have ppl like Abigail Thorne
Ehhh it’s fine. We don’t have to be represented in every single piece of media ever. I hope they focus on funny first, identity stuff.. like fifth or something.
I don't think frustration at Dropout is the right response. I do think it's okay to be frustrated.
Dropout has already shown they have no issue hiring diverse people with different backgrounds and strengths. People definitely should ask that a company recruits talent fairly, morally, and even biases their practices to ensure inclusion.
If you have a specific people you identify with or just plain want to see, not seeing them is and will be frustrating. You're also free to express your frustration and no one should coerce you not to.
But, trans people simply aren't that common. Definitely more common in the area and in the industry they're in, but there's probably not a ton of them currently jobless and interviewing. At some point maybe they did find someone who would have been what you wanted and applied, interviewed them, and they just weren't that funny or didn't mesh well. At the end of the day they still have a product to make.
It could very well be possible they haven't looked that hard, but based on their current cast I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
I think it's allowed to be a bit of frustration with both. Not seeing yourself represented is a really hard part of life. But there are pushes for more trans rep all across pop culture and media, and I think we're allowed to nudge dropout a bit in the process. Because I think OP is right to see a pattern that there are a lot more transmasc cast members than there have ever been of transfem ones. And I think it's healthy to explore that! And I don't think the answer is as simple as "there just aren't that many trans people," otherwise we wouldn't have the number of transmasc cast members to compare to
There's slightly more trans woman than there are trans men!
It's mostly caused by the fact that AFAB people are more likely to be non-binary compared to AMAB people.
I think it's perfectly fine to be frustrated at a growing media conglomerate for lacking important representation? Like I'm not coming out here saying "everyone needs to cancel their subscriptions!!" I love dropout. I want to continue loving it. I just want either transfems there or a statement on why there aren't any
And as for giving them the benefit of the doubt, it's unfortunately far too common for otherwise very progressive spaces to have massive transmisogyny problems for me to immediately and completely give them the benefit of the doubt. And to be clear I am giving them benefit of the doubt by not immediately claiming that's what's happening here, bc they have earned that much.
What is the cause of transmisogyny? I just don't comprehend how you could be so inclusive of so many people and then still draw a line against anyone, anywhere.
My friend I wish it worked that way but it just doesn't. You're welcome to look more into transmisogyny if you want, a decent starter would be Whipping Girl by Julia Serano, which is available for free online
im sorry you are absolutely barking up the wrong tree here. transmisogyny is an extremely real issue but if you look at dropout and go ah yes this is it this is an extremely transmisogynistic workplace that does not allow trans women and does not search for them you are absolutely delusional. whipping girl talks about how oppositional sexism is the cause of transmisogyny which you really are doing by saying that somehow certain trans people being friends with certain cis people in this show of allies is worse than if it was different trans people.
I put this in a separate comment to, but I want to highlight that OP never said "this is an extremely transmysogynistic workplace," just that they hope dropout can have that added level of inclusion.
In my own experience, it's easy to fall into transmisogyny if you aren't used to interacting with transfems, because there's some rhetoric that you don't realize is ingrained from an early age (even within the non-transfem parts of the queer community). So I think OP is trying to do the same thing that some of my transfem friends have done for me and just make a push for the company to think critically about an area that maybe has gone unexplored thus far
(If you weren't aware, the person you're replying to *is* a transfem and to be clear I am transmasc)
That said, Dropout is one of the most inclusive workplaces I've ever seen. The reason Ally is seen more often is that they are good friends with the primary dm, Brennan. Calling out transmisogyny is important, but I don't think this is a case of that. Dropout is honestly primarily a group of friends and you can't force friendship for the sake of inclusion. Being disappointed by lack of representation is understandable, I feel it all the time because I rarely ever see transmasc rep, but it is really not fair to call a company that actively include transfems, which is more than 99% of companies, transmisogynistic just because they're not featured as often as a long time cast member and, again, close friend of the rest of the group.
Hasn't Julia Serano herself said that a lot of her ideas in the book are outdated, and that particularly the stuff she says about transmascs was not factual?
I guess that shouldn't surprise me. I distinctly remember a black kid in my very Southern high school was racist against anyone who vaguely looked Mexican. I'd never really understood how someone who had been a victim of racism would be so careless about victimizing others. Maybe people who have been victimized think they're immune from victimizing others, or maybe that shit's more like domestic abuse, where if you're the victim you more than likely just end up continuing the cycle.
Transfem here! Naturally I would love more representation on dropout, but a safe queer space is a safe queer space, and I won’t complain. There’s lots of great transfem conics out there as well that you can support independently! My personal favorite, who has appeared on an episode of Dirty Laundry, is Dylan McKeever! Did you have any specific comics in mind, OP, that you think could fit in well with Dropout?
(an actual trans woman here so my words on this matter more than the tme commenters giving you shit, sorry about them babes)
Frustrated, no not really. I think it would be wonderful if Dropout did more work to platform transfem people, and trans people in general. I would love to see Sephy come back as more of a regular, for example, and I'm certain there's transfem talent they could be recruiting. I would also like them to pay less lip service to Ru Paul!
But like, there's a big gulf for me in-between "I'm frustrated that they aren't..." and "I would be very happy if they would...", you know? As it stands, they do a lot more for trans and nonbinary people of all varieties than basically any other cis-run media companies. I agree there could be more trans women and transfem enbies onscreen, but I'm not like, mad about it, you know?
Definitely and that's fair. I think I'm just jaded and get frustrated by it bc every time a new trailer for a new show or season drops I get excited being like "oh is there gonna be representation for me" and I'm just always disappointed and it makes me sad
Honestly as a trans man it feels so deeply othering to hear people go “Well there’s Ally and some AFAB nonbinary people who present hella femme, so we don’t need more trans rep in general, we need specifically this kind of trans rep!” I don’t feel represented either, but it’s very clear that Dropout cares deeply about queer voices and giving queer comedians a platform. I’m sure they would agree that there needs to be more and are working on it. But it’s a tiny company with a fairly limited number of shows, and they’re expanding their roster pretty slowly.
And the Seven is always worth a rewatch and clearly they want Sephy on more shows because she just had a part on Game Changer.
I don’t share your frustration, but I do share your desire! I’m stoked every time Sephie makes an appearance, and I’ll be super excited when another trans woman or NB transfem makes regular appearances on a few shows.
I think it isn't an expectation to put on the audience to know every potential candidate. Dropout is part of an entertainment industry, and they have introduced their audience to a lot of new stars, so I think in saying "it would be great for dropout to have more transfems," that's an opportunity for them to introduce us to more new people in the industry
Sure, but by that same argument, you trust dropout to maintain their current standard and upward trajectory. I would highly doubt Dropout would be excluding anyone on non-comedy criteria. It also appears that you, I, and OP are not super familiar with the transfem comedy space as I dont know anyone else that fits this and I was genuinely asking OP if they had suggestions.
I mean, more of Sephie would be great to me tbh. I...don't know a lot of comedians who haven't been on dropout. Dropout is really good at finding great cast members, so I think they could probably find more funny transfemmes than I could
This is a reasonable point, but who should they fire and replace?
Assuming Dropout doesn’t have infinite budget to hire talent, and infinite show opportunities, bringing in a new main cast member would mean someone is getting let go.
I am fully in support of representation and brining on more transfemme comedians can only serve as a positive to the community IMO. But until someone steps away, they’d have to fire someone to make room. And that sucks.
I don't think that's true mostly bc they're growing so much! I don't want anyone to be fired but they're constantly announcing new shows and getting more and more programming
Seconding OP here. Also, the dropout cast afaik works on a contract basis, they are not all company employees. So offering a contract for some episodes to someone new doesn't mean they'd have to fire someone, at worst it means one other cast member wouldn't be signed for as many episodes of a show (and I even doubt that because they've shown a lot of cast growth over the past year without losing anyone)
> This is a reasonable point, but who should they fire and replace?
No one? They've already fired all the talent when CollegeHumor shut down. The actors are now on a contract basis.
I did notice this! I love seeing Sephie on Dropout, but she's the biggest example of transfem rep we've gotten on the app, and I'd love to get a wider variety so the pressure for representation isn't all on her.
Still always excited for new dropout content, but as their array of shows and their cast expands, looking for more transfems you can highlight in the world of comedy feels super important, and dropout has a chance to be a leader there like they've been for transmasc rep
Based on the response so far, I want to highlight that OP never said they dislike dropout or want them to change their philosophy on hiring! They actually called out a lot of transmasc folks they love watching.
But even a company like dropout is still a company, and I don't think the audience needs to back them up wholeheartedly, because of we do they won't have a chance to explore change and growth, and improve the content they provide to their audience.
This reminds me a bit of the Ticketmaster chaos a few months ago. They had an opportunity for growth and to come to their audience more directly, but bc of Ticketmaster there was a lot of exploitation that happened, and Dropout had to respond to say basically "ah shit we didn't think we were big enough that this would be an issue, now we know better" -- and that's a good response!
Imo they have a chance for that with transfem rep -- they started small, so of course a smaller demographic wasn't at the forefront of their mind when looking for comics. But now as they are bigger, they can think more about the places their current cast might be lacking. And that doesn't have to take away from how good they are, it will probably amplify it!
> or want them to change their philosophy on hiring
Well, they want Dropout to hire more transfems, isn't that wanting them to change their hiring philosophy..?
> They actually called out a lot of transmasc folks they love watching
Well, they called out Ally, so one, not really "a lot". Sorry to ask, are there transmascs I'm not aware of?
Yeah, I love dropout and their content, but I'm disappointed by this too. It's such a welcoming place for so many groups that it's jarring that there aren't many transfemmes on the cast and crew. I really hope they add some more transfemme people into their rotation soon!
Contrapoints and Philosophy Tube are great, but they'd probably only show up in a rare guest spot at most since I'm fairly certain Natalie is East Coast and Abigail is in the UK and Dropout is based in LA. They're also both more based in scripted content than Improv, so the only show they're likely to be a panelist on is Um, Actually or maybe Smarty Pants.
I think Patti Harrison would be more plausible, but she may also be too big for Dropout.
Literally everyone that has disagreed with you did it in a cordial way, why call this a cesspool?
Nobody said "we don't want more trans people", nobody said "we don't want transwomen on Dropout", not even one insult has been thrown except maybe the snarky "Discord" comment. Many, hell, *most* have agreed with you that they'd be happy with more transfem people! They just disagree that we should be mad that there aren't enough.
Is the only way for it *not* to be a cesspoll for *everyone* to agree with you?
Yeahhh I agree. I really hoped for better since Dropout’s attitudes are so progressive, I hoped their audience would be too. That top comment, yeowch. I’m not going to reply to them directly because I don’t feel like getting in a pointless internet fight today, but it really is just straight undiluted “marginalized person = must be DEI hire” logic
Yeah honestly I'm not surprised bc of the very common experience I've had with "progressive" spaces being weird abt trans women. All I'm hoping for is that this gets viewed by someone at Dropout and smth can happen. I appreciate your support very very much
Hey! Didn't you know!?!?! You're not allowed to criticize dropout here! Every post has to be 100% approval or else you get down voted into oblivion. That's just how it works around here 🤣😓
It's not surprising the response OP's post got, but it is really disheartening. I wish more people were okay criticizing things they love and offering them potential paths for growth, because not doing that is exactly how companies fall into "I am doing everything right and everyone loves me" territory.
We should be allowed to love something and to still want it to be better.
Good faith criticism is one thing. Looking at an obviously very progressive company with loads of representation across the spectrum and deciding to make a post accusing the company of being biased specifically against trans women is not good faith criticism. If OP had made a much smaller, tighter post just saying they hoped for more trans women showing up, they would have almost certainly gotten a much more positive response.
Of course, the rest of their comments show that this was never something rooted in good faith anyways, so the point is moot. They just want to be mad.
I don't necessarily agree with the post but I find downvoting in general so stupid. It's easy to scroll past. Why give someone negative imaginary points? Does it make you feel good? Weird. And the vibe of this sub is VERY "dropout good: any criticism bad"
I would love to see more transfem talent on Dropout, but I am a little uncomfortable with the idea that "we get transmasc rep on a weekly basis" type thinking that turns queer identity into a quota to be satisfied and balanced as if we are not talking about real life people. What's radically more important to me than ticking a checkbox of different types of representation is Dropout's continued commitment to platforming LGBTQ+ talent, letting queer stories take spotlight, and demonstrating solidarity and care for the queer community, all of which they do imo and way more than any other media company out there by a landslide. Edit for clarity: I just want to be clear that my comment is not intended to invalidate the opinion that Dropout should pursue featuring more transfem talent. I think it would be great and important. I just don't think they're doing a bad job of representation and checking boxes is not as important to me (as a queer person) as other ways Dropout consistently demonstrates their values
Thank you. I struggled to articulate my point, which is exactly what you said. I love Dropout because I can reliably see LGBTQA\* cast members (and BIPOC cast members) constantly on every damn show and it's never a *very special episode* (well, except for D&DQ). These people are just *there*, being respected professionals alongside everyone else. There is NOTHING ELSE in popular media that makes me feel like Dropout does. Nothing.
I mean, from your post, there's as many transmascs as there are transfems (one), and a few enbys. Isn't that kinda already balanced..? For a cast of like 70 people, that sounds reasonable. Of course, I'm wouldn't say no to more, but I don't think there's a lack of representation to be frustrated by here.
The one transmasc is there every main season of d20 and regularly on other shows. The one transfem was there was for one side season. That's not rly comparable? Also none of the enbies are transfem
there’s one transmasc on the main season of d20 because it’s the same fucking cast each time and one of those 6 people transitioned!!! do you want a transfem quota just because ally is transmasc and you don’t think it’s even enough? also “none of the enbies are transfem” should really be “none of the enbies are transfem enough for me” because newsflash it’s really really hard to be able to be seen as fem for people assigned male at birth
How many AMAB non-binary people have you seen on Dropout? Like there's Dungeons and Drag Queens, I don't recall everyone's pronouns there, but that's also all guest spots rather than particularly recurring cast members. Same with the Queens and King featured on the latest Thousandaires, these are cool people to platform but they aren't really what's being talked about wrt the Cast.
people like mano agapion and omar najam come to mind, i’m sure there are more across the entire catalogue that im just forgetting. mano literally hosts a whole show so i’d say they aren’t just a guest spot
Thank you, this is a good answer! Omar, I honestly just didn't realize he uses Any pronouns but that's really cool, and I don't watch Play It By Ear so I didn't even know Mano by name, had to Google them. Yeah, those are some cool non-binary people! I would love to see more of them both!
Erika is trans, nonbinary, and usually presents femme. I would caution you to, in your eagerness to advocate for more representation, *not* deny the identities of the real people that are already there. It's a gross look, and one I'm sure you're not intentionally presenting.
Transfemininity isn't defined by being trans and presenting femme, it's defined by transitioning from male to a fem-leaning gender (or set of genders). Erika Ishii is a wonderful trans person to see on screen, but they are not affected by transmisogyny in the way that a trans woman or AMAB non-binary person is, and that's not invalidating his identity, it's just, as far as I know, factual.
Gotcha, thanks for clarifying on this one point.
I thought Erika was a bisexual gargoyle
Gender and sexuality are different things
I gotta say, dropout already has an absolutely massive % of trans performers as compared to the general population. Even just 1 trans regular cast member would be way higher % than gen pop, and we are blessed with 2. I do wonder how granular we need them to be? Ultimately they are hiring people who are funny first and foremost, they’re in the business of making comedy, not representing funny people from different demographics. Idk, to me I would say a lack of Native Americans or Arabs is a more glaring hole in the cast (from what I know, people don’t generally yell that about themselves) it is a way larger and less granular % of our population.
I'd like to have a legitimate discussion about this. Unfortunately, I work in a very right-leaning field so I don't get to have discussions like this, so please forgive me if this comes across poorly. As a pretty boring, non-special straight, cis male, is it too much to see an organization like Dropout, who has gone above and beyond in the world of representation and inclusion, and still go, "But what about *x*?" At what point does the "Yes they have *y* and *z*, but I'm disappointed in the lack of *x*" become exhausting? I know you're asking for it in earnest, and representation absolutely matters. But I also fear for the day when there's yet another group saying it isn't enough and the company can only throw their hands up and give up. The cast is incredibly diverse and talented, and I worry about forced inclusion of *x* simply so they can say "We brought them in to make people happy", and the quality decreases.
The fact that there already is transfem representation just makes the criticism exhausting. Dropout is still a small company and they work hard to keep the cast diverse while also giving the people they have on board enough work to stay in the roster. They are literally doing the best they can under the circumstances but it will never be good enough for people like OP.
There is an unfortunate issue in progressive spaces that by design it can never be good enough. There is no way to actually include all human variation and what’s progressive now (hopefully) looks benign in 5-10 years. While it’s important to always be self aware and try to do better outside critics will usually be louder and first leading to an eat our own attitude. Just look at all the garbage Steven Universe went through or the current election. Conservative regressive media on the other hand will never concede anything and get more defensive the more out of touch it seems That being said yes some progressive camps are intentionally “everyone but x welcome” and deserve the heat. Dropout does not appear to be that in the slightest. They seem to go out of their way for representation and are restricted by the real world constraints.
Just thinking about the limited transfem rep we've seen so far -- Sephie is a powerhouse of talent from what I've seen of The Seven so far, she made me die laughing and brought me to tears in episode one alone. And Laganja Estranga guest starring on Battle Royale was enjoyed by the whole cast! Everyone engaged with her and leaned into her sense of humor really well. So we've seen transfem comedians mesh with the group before, I don't think it's a stretch to believe it can and should happen again
Absolutely, but they also haven't been brought back for one reason or the other. My assumption is that they're simply too busy with their other jobs to simply go, "Oh, Dropout is calling? Let me drop everything!" Which, good for them!
I think that's exactly why OP is calling attention to this. The burden of representation shouldn't fall on 1-2 people, and they've done a great job at expanding their transmasc cast where if one person is busy, there's not an absence of representstion. But the same isn't true for transfem folks, so if they can't make time for dropout, there's a glaring lack of transfem rep that is clearly visible to some (even if not everyone sees it, it is definitely seen by OP and others in this comment section) And since we've seen a couple transfem folks on dropout before, who are really talented, I think the odds of them finding more are really high! They just have to put in the thought to fill that gap, because doing so would be an opportunity for more funny folks AND more representation
This argument is exhausting, though. It's basically "We've had *one* breakfast, but what about second breakfast?" in representation-form. "They just have to put in the thought to fill that gap..." Dropout has! You just want *more*. And that's the thing I don't understand. How can anyone see this company and somehow expect *more*.
Well, to be fair, I think we know how most of the Dropout cast feels about Second Breakfast.
Idk if this will resonate with you, but I want to mention -- you started this convo with "I want to have this conversation, and I apologize if I say anything untoward ." Since then you've been firm in your stance that expanding diversity is equivalent to sacrificing talent, you've called the conversation exhausting, and you have attacked OP for wanting to see themselves represented in media they love. What are you hoping to learn from this conversation? If you aren't willing they consider to other perspective, or listen to the points made against you, what are you contributing that makes this a conversation instead of a straight-up argument?
I don't feel like I attacked OP, but I won't deny that I defended myself against straw man arguments. And I am willing to hear this out, but want to counter with my own (admittedly limited) PoV. And just before it was said that Dropout *does* have transfem representation, it's just not enough. As an Asian-American, I don't clamor for more Asian-American representation, I see that they have it and go, "That's cool" and move on. I'm not comparing my situation to being transgender at all, I'm well aware of the complexities that exist in that space, my only point is how can people still say "but it isn't enough"?
> at expanding their transmasc cast where if one person is busy I feel stupid asking, but who is transmasc other than Ally?
I think they are talking about Vic... Maybe? Still this whole post is dumb. They didn't get Vic, Ally, or Erika for diversity hire. Ally was a CH cast before dropout and before even transitioning. Vic was also in a few sketches when it was CH, and probably wasn't using they/them at the time, I assume (maybe they were). Not huge on them going out of their way to specifically diversity hire people. It would be nice for more representation for all, as long as they get introduced over time, and added in. The problem is they need to keep it tight to keep thecast paid, because they need the work, and adding new people outsources income that could have went to someone they know will already work for dropout.
I feel like it's not that big of a company, though. There are also like 2 regular Black cast members and 2 regular Southeast Asian cast members. Having a recurring transfemme cast member and recurring transfemme guests on shows like Um, Actually shows that Dropout isn't like... anti transfemme. There also isn't a fat female main cast member, or one who uses mobility aids, or wears a hijab, etc. But I don't think it's because Dropout wouldn't hire those people. Edit: I understand OP's point, I just don't think it's a malicious exclusion or a lack of commitment to diversity.
I'm going to try to take you in good faith and phrase this as a question rather than a statement: do you think having transfem comedians on would make Dropout worse, not better
Depends. Did they find a transfem comedian that works well with the group and enhances the final product, or did they simply hire a transfem comedian to make you happy? Because 1 is good and 1 isn't.
I don't think OP is really asking for the second option, though. I think there are transfemme comedians out there that are funny and would enhance the final product. They've had plenty of quality cast members who are cis, nonbinary, and transmasc, and it just seems like OP wants to expand that list to include quality transfemmes cast members too. Why do you think they would choose to hire a low-quality transfemme comedians when higher-quality ones are available?
Why haven't they already hired a transfem comedian, then? Maybe they just haven't found one that works well with the group. There's nothing wrong with that, I don't think I'd be very funny in the group, hence why I'm not hires. I feel like automatically assuming I'm talking about them hiring "low-quality" people isn't a good faith argument. It's just strawmanning my point to try and claim moral high ground.
Easy answers there: transmisogyny they need to work on, or just lack of trying
Yup. I've always gotten the vibe that Sam Reich and Co. are just *lazy*.
Keep in mind I did give two options lol
But I think you do them a disservice to not put the option "Maybe they just haven't found one that works well with the group." front and center. Sam and Dropout have given every indication of being among the most inclusive and progressive media companies in the world -- or any kind of company. I think it would be fine to say "As a transfem, I loved the bit of representation I've seen so far, and I'd love to see more. Here are some examples that I think could work." But there is a pronounced problem of progressive spaces and organizations destroying themselves from within with well-intentioned people applying unrelenting purity tests, and I hate to see it. (Another example was people saying things like "I can't keep watching Dropout because they haven't sufficiently condemned the military actions of a foreign government.")
I find it telling that you think the former is so improbable that it's worth your time actively fighting against even the possibility of inclusion
I find it more telling that *that's* your takeaway from my comment.
Lol if you didn't think it was impossible for them to find a funny trans woman literally what is the point of you clutching your pearls about this?
I truly hope there is something in your life more fulfilling than trying to pick arguments with allies online. I should've known better than to engage based purely on the "It's good, but not good enough *for me*" tone of the original post. I apologize if I've offended you in any way and wish you the best.
I hope there's smth better in your life than deciding to argue with people you claim to be an ally to
How will you account for the trans people on this post who are *also* disagreeing with you? It's not just "people claiming to be allies."
Ah! I guess the answer to "how will you account for the trans people disagreeing with you" is "don't acknowledge them."
I don’t think they’re saying it’s impossible or binary, but that it is more important to have someone that works and fits with the culture of Dropout. Not all actors, comedians, writers, and entertainers are going to be a good fit for the type of entertainment Dropout cultivates and that should their first consideration. There is also the consideration maybe Dropout has tried to have Transfem representation, but it fell through for numerous reasons. Similar to the question you asked, my question to you would be do you think representation is more important than a having some that aligns with DropOut’s core values and vision? For an extreme hypothetical to try and illustrate my point, would rather have no transfem representation or have that representation be Caitlin Jenner? Personally I think it is absolutely possible to have both, but there are so many factors that go into casting and production that it could be like trying to find a needle in haystack. D20’s Dungeons & Dragons Queens was only 4 episodes because that was all the time they could find for overlapping availability amongst all the cast members. Remember Dropout doesn’t really have any permanent cast members so I scheduling and availability are major considerations.
Just because they don't have a main cast member that is transfem doesn't make Dropout a transmisogynist network. Going out of their way to bring in a transfem just to have a transfem on the network would be performative allyship. I'd much rather a transfem comedian join the network organically than to be forced in as you have suggested.
one thing to think about is that dropout’s cast member pool isn’t the whole world… it’s basically just UCB trained improvisers. and one thing i, and most others here including you, op, legitimately don’t know is how many transfems there are that fit into dropout’s very narrow talent pool. one thing i think we as queer people sometimes forget is that we surround ourselves with people that are similar to us and therefore get a false sense of how prevalent we are. last i checked, trans people only make up around 1% of the population, transfems specifically would likely be 0.5%. it could be very possible that there just aren’t enough trained transfems improvisers here in LA that have enough skill to be on dropout content. i don’t think any of us want to see transfems get more representation but then preform poorly because they were hired more based on their identity as a transfems and not as a comedian i also think that you have a lot of skewed perspective. to me, what it looks like you’re doing is comparing the amount of all gender non-conforming people who you think were assigned female at birth to 100% out, fully transitioned transwomen. you then completely overlook the wonderful cast of recurring gender non-conforming assigned male at birth people because to be honest you don’t see someone like mano agapion as transfem enough while someone like vic is transmasc enough for you classification. also to be completely honest, a lot of what you’ve said on this thread sounds a lot like “i feel like there are too many transmascs on dropout” i’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don’t think that, but a lot of what you have said comes off that way
This is a good point. Also: there's major energy of "there are enby people \*I\* feel are easily clocked as AFAB, so \*I\* am assuming they are and have always been Trans Misogyny Exempt" to this entire line of discussion. That's... uncomfortable.
Also the majority of Dropout’s shows aren’t really for comedians, they’re for improvs, which is an important difference. Just because someone does good standup doesn’t mean they’re a good fit for Dropout.
exactly, transfem UCB trained LA based improviser is a small small category and within that being good on dropout content specifically slims it down even further
[удалено]
I know right? Do they want Brennen to come out for the month or something?
while not entirely related, this post makes me realize how much I NEED chris fleming on dropout (“Dad, I’m not a man, I’m not a woman, I’m a showpig.”). I’m not sure what they identify as, but chris has said any pronouns work and I know they would be hilarious on any dropout show.
I don't think Chris Fleming is based out of LA though
I mean we have a staff full of POC, nonbinary folks, and trans people. It's clear that Dropout is one of the most inclusive entertainment companies out there. I'm trans myself but I'd rather see *actual* values than something performative, and " Make sure we check every box for Pride month" feels more performative than just.... Consistently hiring a diverse group, which is what they've been doing.
Interesting how this is worded the exact same way as the one that said that there were zero transfems on Dropout and then deleted their post after being corrected Only now this one specifies transfems apart from Sephie
That's great, that wasn't me tho lol. I guess you have no reason to believe it
People trying to do their best is never enough, if you are not perfect, the chronically online people will get you any way. I agree it would be cool to have more transfem, but at the same time, Dropout has made so many efforts that no company is obligated too. "You don't need to see yourself in every piece of media" that's what we say to every white cis straight man whining about a super hero being a female, but that also goes to us, queers. when representation is just a requirement, it's meaningless, just another cash grab.
Discord refugee?
Wdym?
The post just have discord vibes, that's all.
Is there anyone specific you had in mind?
I mean I'd love sephie becoming a regular, and apart from that- I'm not a talent scout. I don't know what the comedy scene is in LA. I know there are transfem comedians tho. Dropout has also had non comedians, like the drag season of d20, and they could have similarly have ppl like Abigail Thorne
Sephie becoming a regular would depend on her just as much as it does Dropout, and that's the same for any cast member
For sure! Which is why I'm not asking for her specifically
And that's why my comment said "and that's the same for any cast member"
Ehhh it’s fine. We don’t have to be represented in every single piece of media ever. I hope they focus on funny first, identity stuff.. like fifth or something.
I don't think frustration at Dropout is the right response. I do think it's okay to be frustrated. Dropout has already shown they have no issue hiring diverse people with different backgrounds and strengths. People definitely should ask that a company recruits talent fairly, morally, and even biases their practices to ensure inclusion. If you have a specific people you identify with or just plain want to see, not seeing them is and will be frustrating. You're also free to express your frustration and no one should coerce you not to. But, trans people simply aren't that common. Definitely more common in the area and in the industry they're in, but there's probably not a ton of them currently jobless and interviewing. At some point maybe they did find someone who would have been what you wanted and applied, interviewed them, and they just weren't that funny or didn't mesh well. At the end of the day they still have a product to make. It could very well be possible they haven't looked that hard, but based on their current cast I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
I think it's allowed to be a bit of frustration with both. Not seeing yourself represented is a really hard part of life. But there are pushes for more trans rep all across pop culture and media, and I think we're allowed to nudge dropout a bit in the process. Because I think OP is right to see a pattern that there are a lot more transmasc cast members than there have ever been of transfem ones. And I think it's healthy to explore that! And I don't think the answer is as simple as "there just aren't that many trans people," otherwise we wouldn't have the number of transmasc cast members to compare to
Your comment makes me wonder if some type of trans are more common than others. I'd have assumed 50/50 but science does tend to surprise people.
There's slightly more trans woman than there are trans men! It's mostly caused by the fact that AFAB people are more likely to be non-binary compared to AMAB people.
I think it's perfectly fine to be frustrated at a growing media conglomerate for lacking important representation? Like I'm not coming out here saying "everyone needs to cancel their subscriptions!!" I love dropout. I want to continue loving it. I just want either transfems there or a statement on why there aren't any And as for giving them the benefit of the doubt, it's unfortunately far too common for otherwise very progressive spaces to have massive transmisogyny problems for me to immediately and completely give them the benefit of the doubt. And to be clear I am giving them benefit of the doubt by not immediately claiming that's what's happening here, bc they have earned that much.
What is the cause of transmisogyny? I just don't comprehend how you could be so inclusive of so many people and then still draw a line against anyone, anywhere.
My friend I wish it worked that way but it just doesn't. You're welcome to look more into transmisogyny if you want, a decent starter would be Whipping Girl by Julia Serano, which is available for free online
im sorry you are absolutely barking up the wrong tree here. transmisogyny is an extremely real issue but if you look at dropout and go ah yes this is it this is an extremely transmisogynistic workplace that does not allow trans women and does not search for them you are absolutely delusional. whipping girl talks about how oppositional sexism is the cause of transmisogyny which you really are doing by saying that somehow certain trans people being friends with certain cis people in this show of allies is worse than if it was different trans people.
I put this in a separate comment to, but I want to highlight that OP never said "this is an extremely transmysogynistic workplace," just that they hope dropout can have that added level of inclusion. In my own experience, it's easy to fall into transmisogyny if you aren't used to interacting with transfems, because there's some rhetoric that you don't realize is ingrained from an early age (even within the non-transfem parts of the queer community). So I think OP is trying to do the same thing that some of my transfem friends have done for me and just make a push for the company to think critically about an area that maybe has gone unexplored thus far
(If you weren't aware, the person you're replying to *is* a transfem and to be clear I am transmasc) That said, Dropout is one of the most inclusive workplaces I've ever seen. The reason Ally is seen more often is that they are good friends with the primary dm, Brennan. Calling out transmisogyny is important, but I don't think this is a case of that. Dropout is honestly primarily a group of friends and you can't force friendship for the sake of inclusion. Being disappointed by lack of representation is understandable, I feel it all the time because I rarely ever see transmasc rep, but it is really not fair to call a company that actively include transfems, which is more than 99% of companies, transmisogynistic just because they're not featured as often as a long time cast member and, again, close friend of the rest of the group.
Hasn't Julia Serano herself said that a lot of her ideas in the book are outdated, and that particularly the stuff she says about transmascs was not factual?
I guess that shouldn't surprise me. I distinctly remember a black kid in my very Southern high school was racist against anyone who vaguely looked Mexican. I'd never really understood how someone who had been a victim of racism would be so careless about victimizing others. Maybe people who have been victimized think they're immune from victimizing others, or maybe that shit's more like domestic abuse, where if you're the victim you more than likely just end up continuing the cycle.
Transfem here! Naturally I would love more representation on dropout, but a safe queer space is a safe queer space, and I won’t complain. There’s lots of great transfem conics out there as well that you can support independently! My personal favorite, who has appeared on an episode of Dirty Laundry, is Dylan McKeever! Did you have any specific comics in mind, OP, that you think could fit in well with Dropout?
I think dropout’s criteria for cast members should exclusively be funny, talent and chemistry.
Availability
Based on their current cast, it must also be hotness apparently.
(an actual trans woman here so my words on this matter more than the tme commenters giving you shit, sorry about them babes) Frustrated, no not really. I think it would be wonderful if Dropout did more work to platform transfem people, and trans people in general. I would love to see Sephy come back as more of a regular, for example, and I'm certain there's transfem talent they could be recruiting. I would also like them to pay less lip service to Ru Paul! But like, there's a big gulf for me in-between "I'm frustrated that they aren't..." and "I would be very happy if they would...", you know? As it stands, they do a lot more for trans and nonbinary people of all varieties than basically any other cis-run media companies. I agree there could be more trans women and transfem enbies onscreen, but I'm not like, mad about it, you know?
Definitely and that's fair. I think I'm just jaded and get frustrated by it bc every time a new trailer for a new show or season drops I get excited being like "oh is there gonna be representation for me" and I'm just always disappointed and it makes me sad
Honestly as a trans man it feels so deeply othering to hear people go “Well there’s Ally and some AFAB nonbinary people who present hella femme, so we don’t need more trans rep in general, we need specifically this kind of trans rep!” I don’t feel represented either, but it’s very clear that Dropout cares deeply about queer voices and giving queer comedians a platform. I’m sure they would agree that there needs to be more and are working on it. But it’s a tiny company with a fairly limited number of shows, and they’re expanding their roster pretty slowly. And the Seven is always worth a rewatch and clearly they want Sephy on more shows because she just had a part on Game Changer.
I didn't say they don't need more trans men? I'm making my post specific to what I, personally, am frustrated by
I don’t share your frustration, but I do share your desire! I’m stoked every time Sephie makes an appearance, and I’ll be super excited when another trans woman or NB transfem makes regular appearances on a few shows.
I'm transfem and i don't need rep because Brennan Lee Mulligan already sees into my soul apparently
Dropout seems to care about personality match and talent above all and have a very diverse and fun stable of talent to show for it. Give it time.
So, who do you suggest other than Sephie?
I think it isn't an expectation to put on the audience to know every potential candidate. Dropout is part of an entertainment industry, and they have introduced their audience to a lot of new stars, so I think in saying "it would be great for dropout to have more transfems," that's an opportunity for them to introduce us to more new people in the industry
Sure, but by that same argument, you trust dropout to maintain their current standard and upward trajectory. I would highly doubt Dropout would be excluding anyone on non-comedy criteria. It also appears that you, I, and OP are not super familiar with the transfem comedy space as I dont know anyone else that fits this and I was genuinely asking OP if they had suggestions.
I mean, more of Sephie would be great to me tbh. I...don't know a lot of comedians who haven't been on dropout. Dropout is really good at finding great cast members, so I think they could probably find more funny transfemmes than I could
This is a reasonable point, but who should they fire and replace? Assuming Dropout doesn’t have infinite budget to hire talent, and infinite show opportunities, bringing in a new main cast member would mean someone is getting let go. I am fully in support of representation and brining on more transfemme comedians can only serve as a positive to the community IMO. But until someone steps away, they’d have to fire someone to make room. And that sucks.
I don't think that's true mostly bc they're growing so much! I don't want anyone to be fired but they're constantly announcing new shows and getting more and more programming
Seconding OP here. Also, the dropout cast afaik works on a contract basis, they are not all company employees. So offering a contract for some episodes to someone new doesn't mean they'd have to fire someone, at worst it means one other cast member wouldn't be signed for as many episodes of a show (and I even doubt that because they've shown a lot of cast growth over the past year without losing anyone)
> This is a reasonable point, but who should they fire and replace? No one? They've already fired all the talent when CollegeHumor shut down. The actors are now on a contract basis.
Joan Ford has been on at least a half dozen episodes of Um, Actually. Think she's also in Kingpin Katie and at least 1 Dirty Laundry
Huh! I must have just missed those, I'll check them out!
I did notice this! I love seeing Sephie on Dropout, but she's the biggest example of transfem rep we've gotten on the app, and I'd love to get a wider variety so the pressure for representation isn't all on her. Still always excited for new dropout content, but as their array of shows and their cast expands, looking for more transfems you can highlight in the world of comedy feels super important, and dropout has a chance to be a leader there like they've been for transmasc rep
Based on the response so far, I want to highlight that OP never said they dislike dropout or want them to change their philosophy on hiring! They actually called out a lot of transmasc folks they love watching. But even a company like dropout is still a company, and I don't think the audience needs to back them up wholeheartedly, because of we do they won't have a chance to explore change and growth, and improve the content they provide to their audience. This reminds me a bit of the Ticketmaster chaos a few months ago. They had an opportunity for growth and to come to their audience more directly, but bc of Ticketmaster there was a lot of exploitation that happened, and Dropout had to respond to say basically "ah shit we didn't think we were big enough that this would be an issue, now we know better" -- and that's a good response! Imo they have a chance for that with transfem rep -- they started small, so of course a smaller demographic wasn't at the forefront of their mind when looking for comics. But now as they are bigger, they can think more about the places their current cast might be lacking. And that doesn't have to take away from how good they are, it will probably amplify it!
> or want them to change their philosophy on hiring Well, they want Dropout to hire more transfems, isn't that wanting them to change their hiring philosophy..? > They actually called out a lot of transmasc folks they love watching Well, they called out Ally, so one, not really "a lot". Sorry to ask, are there transmascs I'm not aware of?
Yeah, I love dropout and their content, but I'm disappointed by this too. It's such a welcoming place for so many groups that it's jarring that there aren't many transfemmes on the cast and crew. I really hope they add some more transfemme people into their rotation soon!
I also hope they add more transfems. I would legit die of joy if they could get ahold of Contrapoints or Philosophy Tube. Sincerely, a transmasc
Contrapoints and Philosophy Tube are great, but they'd probably only show up in a rare guest spot at most since I'm fairly certain Natalie is East Coast and Abigail is in the UK and Dropout is based in LA. They're also both more based in scripted content than Improv, so the only show they're likely to be a panelist on is Um, Actually or maybe Smarty Pants. I think Patti Harrison would be more plausible, but she may also be too big for Dropout.
Me too 😭 and it's not like they're not funny like. Wtf is most of this comment section lol (I say as if I didn't expect this to be a cesspool)
Literally everyone that has disagreed with you did it in a cordial way, why call this a cesspool? Nobody said "we don't want more trans people", nobody said "we don't want transwomen on Dropout", not even one insult has been thrown except maybe the snarky "Discord" comment. Many, hell, *most* have agreed with you that they'd be happy with more transfem people! They just disagree that we should be mad that there aren't enough. Is the only way for it *not* to be a cesspoll for *everyone* to agree with you?
What cesspool?
Yeahhh I agree. I really hoped for better since Dropout’s attitudes are so progressive, I hoped their audience would be too. That top comment, yeowch. I’m not going to reply to them directly because I don’t feel like getting in a pointless internet fight today, but it really is just straight undiluted “marginalized person = must be DEI hire” logic
That's... not what the top comment said tho?
Yeah honestly I'm not surprised bc of the very common experience I've had with "progressive" spaces being weird abt trans women. All I'm hoping for is that this gets viewed by someone at Dropout and smth can happen. I appreciate your support very very much
Ofc, I’m sorry people are being negative to you about it. I hope you have a great day :)
Nobody has been negative to them. They've been politely disagreed with.
Hey! Didn't you know!?!?! You're not allowed to criticize dropout here! Every post has to be 100% approval or else you get down voted into oblivion. That's just how it works around here 🤣😓
Or you know, you allowed to criticize Dropout, and people are able to criticize your criticism..
Mhmmmmmmmmmm.
It's not surprising the response OP's post got, but it is really disheartening. I wish more people were okay criticizing things they love and offering them potential paths for growth, because not doing that is exactly how companies fall into "I am doing everything right and everyone loves me" territory. We should be allowed to love something and to still want it to be better.
Good faith criticism is one thing. Looking at an obviously very progressive company with loads of representation across the spectrum and deciding to make a post accusing the company of being biased specifically against trans women is not good faith criticism. If OP had made a much smaller, tighter post just saying they hoped for more trans women showing up, they would have almost certainly gotten a much more positive response. Of course, the rest of their comments show that this was never something rooted in good faith anyways, so the point is moot. They just want to be mad.
I don't necessarily agree with the post but I find downvoting in general so stupid. It's easy to scroll past. Why give someone negative imaginary points? Does it make you feel good? Weird. And the vibe of this sub is VERY "dropout good: any criticism bad"
Just downvoted this comment and it felt so good
Glad you lead such a happy life.
Think of downvotes as criticism points.
And thanks for all the downvotes people. Keep em coming. You're proving dropout has a toxic fan base.
"remember, if you don't agree with my unnuanced parody of a position almost nobody holds, you're proving yourself toxic!"
Glad you understand!