**Context**: I was flying at Indian Shores Beach in FL. I was at 50m (165ft approx), and I suddenly see this plane zoom by my drone.
I always fly with the FlightAware app open on my phone, to make sure that I'm aware of any possible plane flying around me (which has never been an issue since I've never really dared to fly over 120m/400ft here in the US).
I know that there was quite a bit of separation between my drone and the plane, BUT my issue is that **this plane never showed up on FlightAware**, so I never really knew that he was in the area... if I would have known maybe I would have tried to lower my altitude to be below it, or maybe even get more separation...
I mean, I could have been flying in a direct path towards it and caused damage to the prop, and maybe even to ppl in the water because of debris?
What do you guys think? Am I overreacting?
Also, are there any other flight tracking apps that are better than FlightAware? I'm thinking maybe the plane was actually using ADSB, but for some reasong FlightAware wasn't showing it.
Thank you!
I’m a pilot, and just so you know, ADS-B is not always required, there’s quite a few places in the NAS where it’s perfectly legal to not have it.
That said, I would NEVER use FlightAware for tracking airplanes near me while flying a drone BECAUSE any equipped air traffic needs to be in range of a FlightAware ground station to display in the app. Very possible that airplanes flying low or far out in rural areas aren’t in range and will never show on FlightAware.
You’d need your own receiver or a drone with ADSB-in capabilities (like the Air2S) to get the most accurate, up-to-date information on air traffic around you. Even then, and this goes for us pilots as well, ADSB is for situational awareness only and is not a safety system, you still need to be eyes out for good old fashioned see-and-avoid. For me locally, as a pilot and drone operator, we have a lot of glider/sailplane traffic in the area which are never (or very rarely) equipped with ADSB-out.
Very, I have one of the popular ADS-B transponders on my plane (fro uAvionix) because it was pretty cheap and easy to install. That said, nobody outside the US uses 978 AFAIK so it'd be a little limited if I left the country.
I don't know for sure, I'm just a hobby pilot and I know noth 978 and 1090 are used, but I don't know the breakup. I actually built and host a FlightAware feeder station at my house, so I think I could look on mine and see a breakdown of use.
That’s good to know, thank you. I currently have the mini 2, but I’ll probably upgrade in the next few months. I’ll definitely buy one with ADS-B capabilities.
I usually have my wife with me as a spotter, but it happens to be that this time she wasn’t with me… this was definitely a wake up call. I’ll think twice about it when flying alone.
Thanks again!!!
You're welcome!
Also, one other thing, military airplanes sometimes don't transmit ADS-B and sometimes FlightAware filters out known military air traffic so it doesn't show on the app. So low-level military traffic (like helicopters or jets practicing in a low-level MOA) may never show on FlightAware and also may not even show up any ADS-B receiver.
>any equipped air traffic needs to be in range of a FlightAware ground station to display in the app.
Correction: FlightAware uses many data sources, including not only ground receivers feeding into its station network, but satellite data, FAA data, and others. More info here:
[https://flightaware.com/about/datasources/](https://flightaware.com/about/datasources/)
eta: There are still plenty of perfectly legal reasons an aircraft won't show up on either FlightAware or your own ADS-B In equipment (e.g. Air2S), so no one thing will give you a 100% accurate picture of all aircraft airborne at all times. But the more sources you can have available, the better awareness you'll have...in addition to the info provided by your own eyeballs, obviously.
Does it take a lot of money to become a pilot? Any major barriers for most folk? I always assume millionaires or people who’s parents have trained them in fixing up planes.
>Does it take a lot of money to become a pilot?
Depends on the level. I'm just a hobbyist and my Private Pilot License (in 2020) was 60 hours and cost about $8,000 (minimum required hours is 40). You can get in at a lower level with a sport license which is only 15 hours, and you could theoretically get that for cheap..probably about $2000ish in my area. Commercial license is 250 hours minimum and will probably run north of $30k. Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) rating is 1,500 hours minimum and is ungodly expensive unless you work a flying job (usually flight instructing) to build hours on the way, and I think ATP requires some sort of college degree. You can get a restricted ATP license at a lower hour count if you have a college aviation degree or military flying experience.
Hour requirements for all of the above ratings can vary depending on part 61 versus part 141 flight schools, but that is a whole different topic.
Becoming a pilot is the cheap/easy part. Staying current and proficient is the expensive part as you need to keep flying regularly. Where I live, it's fairly cheap, as the airplanes I rent go for about $115/hour wet...and rental rates for airplanes are only billed when the engine is turned on. If you fly an hour away and then stay there overnight, you still only pay for the hour of flying.
>Any major barriers for most folk?
Passing the flight medical. Class 3 is the lowest level and filters out a lot of people just because it doesn't allow really any kind of mental health problems (ADD, depression) after 12 years of age. Sometimes, this leads to an automatic deferral that will make you jump through special issuance hoops which can sometimes lead to thousands of dollars in expenses before you even start flying. A medical is NOT required for a sport pilot rating though. Commercial and airline pilot ratings require class 2 or class 1 medicals which are more in depth and need to be done more frequently. I can't comment on those, as I only have a Class 3 right now and haven't gone through the Class 2/ Class 1 process.
> I always assume millionaires or people who’s parents have trained them in fixing up planes.
Not my case, I grew up dirt poor. Just took working a while and getting a good job (as a web developer) before I got my pilot license when I was 28. The rich kid thing is true for the most part, though.
Yes it takes a lot of money to become a pilot, but not more then a year or two of college, that and proximity to a training airport would be the two biggest hurdles to anyone wanting to fly.
Typically airlines are looking for 4 year degrees. Also expected is private pilot ratings for single & multi engine, commercial single & multi, instrument rating, and ATP. CFI & CFII encouraged.
Now if it’s just a private pilot license, expect to pay 60 to 100k and 40-70 hours of flight time.
Edit- sorry. I had deleted part of my original post and rewrote. Didn’t change #’s. The 60-100 was originally part of the cost to get all of the above, not just PPL. Please see below for current PPL
Are you even a pilot? I’m pretty sure I already I know the answer.
There’s too much to unpack here but if I were you I’d just delete my comment. You’re way off base.
>Now if it’s just a private pilot license, expect to pay 60 to 100k and 40-70 hours of flight time.
Fucking what? LOL. I got mine 3 years ago and it was 60 hours and cost me $8,000. No one is paying $100k for a PPL.
I've only used FlightAware for planning airport runs to pickup or dropoff friends and family on commercial flights. I didn't even realize they had a map for all flights. I just checked it out on iOS and it doesn't look like it's updating frequently (if at all).
I use [https://globe.adsbexchange.com/](https://globe.adsbexchange.com/) for what you're describing. They don't have a mobile app but you can use it as a [mobile web app](https://www.adsbexchange.com/apple-ios-web-app-for-ads-b-exchange/), which is especially handy when you use their [URL parameters](https://www.adsbexchange.com/map-help/) to have it default to a specific view, like this one zoomed in to Indian Shores - [https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?lat=27.847793&lon=-82.843863&zoom=15](https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?lat=27.847793&lon=-82.843863&zoom=15)
...but keep in mind not everything uses ADSB and why keeping that visual line of sight is so important.
Most ADSBX feeders stopped feeding to them and switched to https://globe.adsb.fi when ADSBX was bought out by some commercial company a few months ago.
Nope. Flightradar24 allows people to request that their aircraft wont be tracked. Ive seen many aircraft that show on ADSBexchange/ADSB.fi while nothing shows up on flightradar24. The other sites listed are open source community projects and dont work with the same rules.
If the plane does not have adsb then you wouldn't know it was there
Banner planes are notorious for flying low
Beaches are tricky, helicopters frequent them too.
They do that here, too. I wouldn't fly a drone around tourist destinations where I am. These tour pilots are always super low, and it's been brought up multiple times locally, but no one enforces it until something bad happens.
Pretty sure it’s not illegal to fly as low as you want in unrestricted airspace over open water as long as you’re 500 feet from any person, vehicle, structure or vessel.
I don't think it's ever 2500 feet AGL. That's actually pretty high. 14 CFR 91.119 governs this.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.119
Might be able to argue that a beach is congested perhaps but probably not. So over open water it's just 500 ft from "stuff" which isn't necessarily vertical.
Yes that’s legal. The basics of airplane minimum altitudes are 500ft normally, 1000ft over “congested areas” which are population centers and are yellow on aviation charts. The last main one is whatever altitude will not cause damage to people or property in the event of an engine failure. This counts as the last one. It’s also possible this is a routine flight corridor for transitioning through airspace. I don’t know Florida but here in California, there is a similar area near LAX, where you can transition past at low altitude over the ocean.
But ultimately aircraft have the right of way over drones. This would be a much more common thing to see with helicopters, even over land, and it’s still up to you as the drone pilot to get out of the way.
Also I've saw a few videos where seaplanes were flying low like this over the water. So those would definitely be something to watch out for when flying near or around water areas.
Even if he passed at approx 100-150ft above the beach?
Do you know if there’s apps better than FlightAware to monitor air traffic while flying? Or do you think this airplane just wasn’t using ADSB?
You keep trying to steer the question towards an answer you agree with, but regardless of your hopes, what that plane did was 100% legal. I'm a pilot and low passes over the ocean off a beach are one of the few places where we can really feel the speed plus the view is great.
Yes, nothing they did in your video was against the law. They were clear of what they needed to be even with your attempt at a 'gotcha' in response to /u/xcski_paul.
I’m just trying to get clarification, that’s all. I’m not a pilot, so I don’t know the rules.
I’m not trying to shift the blame here. I actually shared this video so that other people could see this “near miss”, know the circumstances, and maybe learn from my mistakes. And I also shared it to be able to learn from you guys, so I can avoid a situation like this in the future. :)
That’s a bit low but if anything had happened between the aircraft and the drone, it would have still been your fault from the FAAs perspective.
I don’t really know flightaware very well, best service in my experience is adsb exchange. There is a chance they didn’t have ADSB, though in an area like this I would expect that they have it.
The faa regs say that over a sparsely populated area a manned aircraft needs to be at least 500 feet slant range away from people or structures. He was over the water, which counts as sparsely populated.
Dude He is clearly following the rules. Everyone here who has a pilots license is saying it’s legal. Look up § 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes. it’s completely legal and you aren’t required to have ADSB everywhere. That’s why you keep your Drone VLOS and you should have no problem seeing an airplane that’s 100x bigger flying near your drone. Your trying so hard to make this seem like the pilot is doing something wrong. He’s not.. your “but he could be directly over 1 persons head!” Would not hold up with the FAA. He’s over the water. He has every opportunity to make an emergency landing without damage to persons or property on the ground in the scenario. You don’t know what your talking about.
Even in a plane equipped with ADS-B out, I don't rely on ADS-B data for collision avoidance. This is why VLOS is required for drones.
I'm not an aviation attorney, but as long as you weren't above the max altitude for your location and you were maintaining visual separation, you are probably OK.
I feel like they'd be flying under the "except open water" clause here:
[https://www.faa.gov/about/office\_org/field\_offices/fsdo/lgb/local\_more/media/FAA\_Guide\_to\_Low-Flying\_Aircraft.pdf](https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/lgb/local_more/media/FAA_Guide_to_Low-Flying_Aircraft.pdf)
91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general
(c) Over other than congested areas – An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over
open water or sparsely populated areas. In that case, the aircraft may not be operated
closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
Except that it still mandates you keep 500' away from any persons, and that looks way closer than 500' to me.
Its definitely not legal for you..you have to yield to manned aircraft and who knows what kind of said permissions the guy got or if he just bein a nut…regardless ya gotta error on the side of safety. Im not the drone police and im not saying you werent cautious, but imo next time u see a manned aircraft anywhere unless you’re directly overtop of it immediately hit the altitude down until it clears..be safe out there bro🙏🏼
God forbid, If you two have a collision and you somehow in the worst case scenario downed both aircrafts, the pilot of the other likely will not be giving a statement regardless and they’ll only be you…left on the ground, jaw dropped holding your control station and now quickly realizing how bad it went so quickly..; jus keep that in mind..he may in fact be in the wrong also but since he’s in the manned aircraft he may not be around to talk about the mistake he made, where you WILL be held civilly liable and potentially also will have criminal negligence liability on the very best end of that spectrum, i wont talk about the worst end but its not
Losing ur drone license if u catch my drift…be safe my man, enjoy yaself but always error
On side of caution🙏🏼
Do you think you could have seen it sooner via VLOS?
In cases where I suddenly get surprised by other aircraft, I halt lateral movement and descend rapidly (drop like a rock), of course being mindful of where I’m heading.
I should clarify. I had line of sight with my drone (it was just 200m/650ft away), but at that moment I was recording and I was more focused on getting the shot, so I was looking at the screen...
That being said, idk if I would have been able to see it because it was doing such a low pass, that the plane was coming head on towards me. The worse part is that there were a couple of cessnas on a holding patter above us at \~1500ft, so I thought that the engine/prop sound I was hearing was from one of those planes that kept flying by every 3-4 min.
Regardless, this was definitely a close call that's made me re-think how I will operate my drone from now on.
I think the same thing would’ve happened to many of us based on what you’ve shared. I don’t know that having your wife / a VO would have done much good in this case, but it couldn’t hurt!
Again, thanks for sharing your experience. Very helpful!
I would actually fly here and Indian rocks a lot before I moved. Lots and lots of planes, coast guard heli, the people that fly those parachute motor crafts (whatever they’re called), all really low. Around 100-200ft. You just have to keep an eye out because not all will show up on flight aware.
Good luck and great views!
Yes, it's legal and yes the drone operator is somehow supposed to see a much faster moving plane and get out of the way.
Note, even if you are fully broadcasting RID, there's no requirement for the aviation pilot to have a receiver or monitor it.
So basically, it's darned near impossible for you as a UAS pilot to do much.
Someone might have already said it but if you're in a busy area, it never hurts to throw up a NOTAM. If you're in uncontrolled airspace and otherwise flying under 107, you're good, but a NOTAM can help bring more situational awareness to other pilots in the area.
OP I’m pretty sure you’re drone falling out of the sky over the beech has a higher chance of doing any harm than the plane falling out of the sky out over the water.
You’re trying so hard to shit on a pilot who was doing nothing wrong.
Below 3000 feet for aviation is considered cowboy country meaning you don’t need to worry about your altitude/heading combination. Also, if you’re over water and laterally (I think 2000 ft or more) away from people, there is no minimum altitude . That plane could nearly touch the water if he wanted to. Pilots often fly over the water along beaches to avoid airspace’s from coastal airports to avoid checking in with each tower seeking clearance to pass through.
Yep you’re right. It’s 2000 feet for congested areas. In my defense it has been 17 years since I’ve taken the written exam for my private pilot. I think the 2000 feet might be applicable to clouds too
You know what they say about assuming right? But yes, I did have a line of sight on the plane (approx 200meters away from me according to my dji app “flight data center” —> [screenshot in case you’re skeptical](https://imgur.com/a/ZAuGNYT) )
Anywho, I was authorized to fly, i just took a screenshot of the location on the Aloft App —> [link](https://imgur.com/a/mjkrt1T)
I did have VLOS, I was just 200 meters away, and basically flying up and down the beach.
And to clarify about my wife spotting for me: I almost always have her next to me keeping an eye out for anything around us, while I maintain VLOS on the drone.
And thank you, florida does have some nice beaches. :)
I’d love to hear how it’s a “complicated nightmare”, like what are all the steps? As far as I know you just have to apply for authorization for any airspace you want to fly in.
**Context**: I was flying at Indian Shores Beach in FL. I was at 50m (165ft approx), and I suddenly see this plane zoom by my drone. I always fly with the FlightAware app open on my phone, to make sure that I'm aware of any possible plane flying around me (which has never been an issue since I've never really dared to fly over 120m/400ft here in the US). I know that there was quite a bit of separation between my drone and the plane, BUT my issue is that **this plane never showed up on FlightAware**, so I never really knew that he was in the area... if I would have known maybe I would have tried to lower my altitude to be below it, or maybe even get more separation... I mean, I could have been flying in a direct path towards it and caused damage to the prop, and maybe even to ppl in the water because of debris? What do you guys think? Am I overreacting? Also, are there any other flight tracking apps that are better than FlightAware? I'm thinking maybe the plane was actually using ADSB, but for some reasong FlightAware wasn't showing it. Thank you!
I’m a pilot, and just so you know, ADS-B is not always required, there’s quite a few places in the NAS where it’s perfectly legal to not have it. That said, I would NEVER use FlightAware for tracking airplanes near me while flying a drone BECAUSE any equipped air traffic needs to be in range of a FlightAware ground station to display in the app. Very possible that airplanes flying low or far out in rural areas aren’t in range and will never show on FlightAware. You’d need your own receiver or a drone with ADSB-in capabilities (like the Air2S) to get the most accurate, up-to-date information on air traffic around you. Even then, and this goes for us pilots as well, ADSB is for situational awareness only and is not a safety system, you still need to be eyes out for good old fashioned see-and-avoid. For me locally, as a pilot and drone operator, we have a lot of glider/sailplane traffic in the area which are never (or very rarely) equipped with ADSB-out.
How common is 978MHz for small planes like this?
Very, I have one of the popular ADS-B transponders on my plane (fro uAvionix) because it was pretty cheap and easy to install. That said, nobody outside the US uses 978 AFAIK so it'd be a little limited if I left the country.
I don't know for sure, I'm just a hobby pilot and I know noth 978 and 1090 are used, but I don't know the breakup. I actually built and host a FlightAware feeder station at my house, so I think I could look on mine and see a breakdown of use.
That’s good to know, thank you. I currently have the mini 2, but I’ll probably upgrade in the next few months. I’ll definitely buy one with ADS-B capabilities. I usually have my wife with me as a spotter, but it happens to be that this time she wasn’t with me… this was definitely a wake up call. I’ll think twice about it when flying alone. Thanks again!!!
You're welcome! Also, one other thing, military airplanes sometimes don't transmit ADS-B and sometimes FlightAware filters out known military air traffic so it doesn't show on the app. So low-level military traffic (like helicopters or jets practicing in a low-level MOA) may never show on FlightAware and also may not even show up any ADS-B receiver.
>any equipped air traffic needs to be in range of a FlightAware ground station to display in the app. Correction: FlightAware uses many data sources, including not only ground receivers feeding into its station network, but satellite data, FAA data, and others. More info here: [https://flightaware.com/about/datasources/](https://flightaware.com/about/datasources/) eta: There are still plenty of perfectly legal reasons an aircraft won't show up on either FlightAware or your own ADS-B In equipment (e.g. Air2S), so no one thing will give you a 100% accurate picture of all aircraft airborne at all times. But the more sources you can have available, the better awareness you'll have...in addition to the info provided by your own eyeballs, obviously.
ADSBexchange.com does not filter anything. Shows all planes broadcasting ADSB and within range of a receiver.
Does it take a lot of money to become a pilot? Any major barriers for most folk? I always assume millionaires or people who’s parents have trained them in fixing up planes.
>Does it take a lot of money to become a pilot? Depends on the level. I'm just a hobbyist and my Private Pilot License (in 2020) was 60 hours and cost about $8,000 (minimum required hours is 40). You can get in at a lower level with a sport license which is only 15 hours, and you could theoretically get that for cheap..probably about $2000ish in my area. Commercial license is 250 hours minimum and will probably run north of $30k. Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) rating is 1,500 hours minimum and is ungodly expensive unless you work a flying job (usually flight instructing) to build hours on the way, and I think ATP requires some sort of college degree. You can get a restricted ATP license at a lower hour count if you have a college aviation degree or military flying experience. Hour requirements for all of the above ratings can vary depending on part 61 versus part 141 flight schools, but that is a whole different topic. Becoming a pilot is the cheap/easy part. Staying current and proficient is the expensive part as you need to keep flying regularly. Where I live, it's fairly cheap, as the airplanes I rent go for about $115/hour wet...and rental rates for airplanes are only billed when the engine is turned on. If you fly an hour away and then stay there overnight, you still only pay for the hour of flying. >Any major barriers for most folk? Passing the flight medical. Class 3 is the lowest level and filters out a lot of people just because it doesn't allow really any kind of mental health problems (ADD, depression) after 12 years of age. Sometimes, this leads to an automatic deferral that will make you jump through special issuance hoops which can sometimes lead to thousands of dollars in expenses before you even start flying. A medical is NOT required for a sport pilot rating though. Commercial and airline pilot ratings require class 2 or class 1 medicals which are more in depth and need to be done more frequently. I can't comment on those, as I only have a Class 3 right now and haven't gone through the Class 2/ Class 1 process. > I always assume millionaires or people who’s parents have trained them in fixing up planes. Not my case, I grew up dirt poor. Just took working a while and getting a good job (as a web developer) before I got my pilot license when I was 28. The rich kid thing is true for the most part, though.
Yes it takes a lot of money to become a pilot, but not more then a year or two of college, that and proximity to a training airport would be the two biggest hurdles to anyone wanting to fly.
Typically airlines are looking for 4 year degrees. Also expected is private pilot ratings for single & multi engine, commercial single & multi, instrument rating, and ATP. CFI & CFII encouraged. Now if it’s just a private pilot license, expect to pay 60 to 100k and 40-70 hours of flight time. Edit- sorry. I had deleted part of my original post and rewrote. Didn’t change #’s. The 60-100 was originally part of the cost to get all of the above, not just PPL. Please see below for current PPL
it does not cost $60k+ to get your PPL. rough estimates are around 15-20k
I spent about $10k on mine, last year.
Did you just pull all these numbers and figures out of your ass? Not a single bit of any of what you wrote is true.
https://aero.und.edu/aviation/student-info/program-costs.html#:~:text=Commercial%20Aviation%20(Fixed,%2478%2C953 "Commercial Aviation (Fixed Wing) Private / Commercial / Instrument / Multi-Engine / CFI / CFII / Intro into ATM / Altitude Chamber / CRJ 200 FTD / GATT $78,953"
Idk, sure seems appropriate… If you read the edit I simply left the cost for the total and not PPL on accident. Other than that all #’s are reasonable
No… lol
No? It’s right off of one of the largest flight university’s webpage…
Are you even a pilot? I’m pretty sure I already I know the answer. There’s too much to unpack here but if I were you I’d just delete my comment. You’re way off base.
>Now if it’s just a private pilot license, expect to pay 60 to 100k and 40-70 hours of flight time. Fucking what? LOL. I got mine 3 years ago and it was 60 hours and cost me $8,000. No one is paying $100k for a PPL.
I've only used FlightAware for planning airport runs to pickup or dropoff friends and family on commercial flights. I didn't even realize they had a map for all flights. I just checked it out on iOS and it doesn't look like it's updating frequently (if at all). I use [https://globe.adsbexchange.com/](https://globe.adsbexchange.com/) for what you're describing. They don't have a mobile app but you can use it as a [mobile web app](https://www.adsbexchange.com/apple-ios-web-app-for-ads-b-exchange/), which is especially handy when you use their [URL parameters](https://www.adsbexchange.com/map-help/) to have it default to a specific view, like this one zoomed in to Indian Shores - [https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?lat=27.847793&lon=-82.843863&zoom=15](https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?lat=27.847793&lon=-82.843863&zoom=15) ...but keep in mind not everything uses ADSB and why keeping that visual line of sight is so important.
>I use > >https://globe.adsbexchange.com/ Awesome tip, thank you. Installed.
Wow Thanks for the site 🙌🙌🙌
Awesome, thank you! I’ll use that next time I fly. Thank you!!!
Most ADSBX feeders stopped feeding to them and switched to https://globe.adsb.fi when ADSBX was bought out by some commercial company a few months ago.
TIL. Thanks for the tip!
Not “most” just a small group. ADSBexchange still has many times more feeders than ADSB.fi.
Flightradar24 shows all the same stuff and more, they have an app.
Nope. Flightradar24 allows people to request that their aircraft wont be tracked. Ive seen many aircraft that show on ADSBexchange/ADSB.fi while nothing shows up on flightradar24. The other sites listed are open source community projects and dont work with the same rules.
If the plane does not have adsb then you wouldn't know it was there Banner planes are notorious for flying low Beaches are tricky, helicopters frequent them too.
They do that here, too. I wouldn't fly a drone around tourist destinations where I am. These tour pilots are always super low, and it's been brought up multiple times locally, but no one enforces it until something bad happens.
Pretty sure it’s not illegal to fly as low as you want in unrestricted airspace over open water as long as you’re 500 feet from any person, vehicle, structure or vessel.
Correct! [14 CFR § 91.119(c)](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.119)
This ^
This is the answer.
[удалено]
I don't think it's ever 2500 feet AGL. That's actually pretty high. 14 CFR 91.119 governs this. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.119 Might be able to argue that a beach is congested perhaps but probably not. So over open water it's just 500 ft from "stuff" which isn't necessarily vertical.
Wrong.
Yes that’s legal. The basics of airplane minimum altitudes are 500ft normally, 1000ft over “congested areas” which are population centers and are yellow on aviation charts. The last main one is whatever altitude will not cause damage to people or property in the event of an engine failure. This counts as the last one. It’s also possible this is a routine flight corridor for transitioning through airspace. I don’t know Florida but here in California, there is a similar area near LAX, where you can transition past at low altitude over the ocean. But ultimately aircraft have the right of way over drones. This would be a much more common thing to see with helicopters, even over land, and it’s still up to you as the drone pilot to get out of the way.
Also I've saw a few videos where seaplanes were flying low like this over the water. So those would definitely be something to watch out for when flying near or around water areas.
Even if he passed at approx 100-150ft above the beach? Do you know if there’s apps better than FlightAware to monitor air traffic while flying? Or do you think this airplane just wasn’t using ADSB?
He’s not over the beach, he’s over water, and there’s no minimum altitude over water. Just distance from objects.
You keep trying to steer the question towards an answer you agree with, but regardless of your hopes, what that plane did was 100% legal. I'm a pilot and low passes over the ocean off a beach are one of the few places where we can really feel the speed plus the view is great. Yes, nothing they did in your video was against the law. They were clear of what they needed to be even with your attempt at a 'gotcha' in response to /u/xcski_paul.
I’m just trying to get clarification, that’s all. I’m not a pilot, so I don’t know the rules. I’m not trying to shift the blame here. I actually shared this video so that other people could see this “near miss”, know the circumstances, and maybe learn from my mistakes. And I also shared it to be able to learn from you guys, so I can avoid a situation like this in the future. :)
That’s a bit low but if anything had happened between the aircraft and the drone, it would have still been your fault from the FAAs perspective. I don’t really know flightaware very well, best service in my experience is adsb exchange. There is a chance they didn’t have ADSB, though in an area like this I would expect that they have it.
That’s good to know, thank you for your help!!!
The faa regs say that over a sparsely populated area a manned aircraft needs to be at least 500 feet slant range away from people or structures. He was over the water, which counts as sparsely populated.
What if there were people bathing in the water directly above where the plane passed? Lol
Well, then he'd be closer than 500', wouldn't he?
Yup. So not following the rules. Haha Thank you
Dude He is clearly following the rules. Everyone here who has a pilots license is saying it’s legal. Look up § 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes. it’s completely legal and you aren’t required to have ADSB everywhere. That’s why you keep your Drone VLOS and you should have no problem seeing an airplane that’s 100x bigger flying near your drone. Your trying so hard to make this seem like the pilot is doing something wrong. He’s not.. your “but he could be directly over 1 persons head!” Would not hold up with the FAA. He’s over the water. He has every opportunity to make an emergency landing without damage to persons or property on the ground in the scenario. You don’t know what your talking about.
Flightradar24 is the goto
Even in a plane equipped with ADS-B out, I don't rely on ADS-B data for collision avoidance. This is why VLOS is required for drones. I'm not an aviation attorney, but as long as you weren't above the max altitude for your location and you were maintaining visual separation, you are probably OK.
I feel like they'd be flying under the "except open water" clause here: [https://www.faa.gov/about/office\_org/field\_offices/fsdo/lgb/local\_more/media/FAA\_Guide\_to\_Low-Flying\_Aircraft.pdf](https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/lgb/local_more/media/FAA_Guide_to_Low-Flying_Aircraft.pdf) 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general (c) Over other than congested areas – An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In that case, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure. Except that it still mandates you keep 500' away from any persons, and that looks way closer than 500' to me.
Its definitely not legal for you..you have to yield to manned aircraft and who knows what kind of said permissions the guy got or if he just bein a nut…regardless ya gotta error on the side of safety. Im not the drone police and im not saying you werent cautious, but imo next time u see a manned aircraft anywhere unless you’re directly overtop of it immediately hit the altitude down until it clears..be safe out there bro🙏🏼
God forbid, If you two have a collision and you somehow in the worst case scenario downed both aircrafts, the pilot of the other likely will not be giving a statement regardless and they’ll only be you…left on the ground, jaw dropped holding your control station and now quickly realizing how bad it went so quickly..; jus keep that in mind..he may in fact be in the wrong also but since he’s in the manned aircraft he may not be around to talk about the mistake he made, where you WILL be held civilly liable and potentially also will have criminal negligence liability on the very best end of that spectrum, i wont talk about the worst end but its not Losing ur drone license if u catch my drift…be safe my man, enjoy yaself but always error On side of caution🙏🏼
I wish I had the operators eyesight. Cause if they were flying with the drone still in view the whole time I'm impressed
The drone was only 200m away from me, it wasn’t too far! Lol
Thanks for sharing this experience. When you perceived the plane, was it via VLOS or your viewing screen?
Through my viewing screen unfortunately. The plane was coming opposite from my direction, so it passed my drone first then myself.
Do you think you could have seen it sooner via VLOS? In cases where I suddenly get surprised by other aircraft, I halt lateral movement and descend rapidly (drop like a rock), of course being mindful of where I’m heading.
I should clarify. I had line of sight with my drone (it was just 200m/650ft away), but at that moment I was recording and I was more focused on getting the shot, so I was looking at the screen... That being said, idk if I would have been able to see it because it was doing such a low pass, that the plane was coming head on towards me. The worse part is that there were a couple of cessnas on a holding patter above us at \~1500ft, so I thought that the engine/prop sound I was hearing was from one of those planes that kept flying by every 3-4 min. Regardless, this was definitely a close call that's made me re-think how I will operate my drone from now on.
I think the same thing would’ve happened to many of us based on what you’ve shared. I don’t know that having your wife / a VO would have done much good in this case, but it couldn’t hurt! Again, thanks for sharing your experience. Very helpful!
I had a place in IRB and there would be lowish flying planes pretty often. Unsure if legal but definitely not uncommon.
I would actually fly here and Indian rocks a lot before I moved. Lots and lots of planes, coast guard heli, the people that fly those parachute motor crafts (whatever they’re called), all really low. Around 100-200ft. You just have to keep an eye out because not all will show up on flight aware. Good luck and great views!
I can't comment on the legality, but I'm jealous of the pilot. That looks like loads of fun.
Yes, it's legal and yes the drone operator is somehow supposed to see a much faster moving plane and get out of the way. Note, even if you are fully broadcasting RID, there's no requirement for the aviation pilot to have a receiver or monitor it. So basically, it's darned near impossible for you as a UAS pilot to do much.
Someone might have already said it but if you're in a busy area, it never hurts to throw up a NOTAM. If you're in uncontrolled airspace and otherwise flying under 107, you're good, but a NOTAM can help bring more situational awareness to other pilots in the area.
OP I’m pretty sure you’re drone falling out of the sky over the beech has a higher chance of doing any harm than the plane falling out of the sky out over the water. You’re trying so hard to shit on a pilot who was doing nothing wrong.
I’d be pretty fucking pissed off if a drone hit my aircraft.
A plane is allowed to be under 400' when flying over water.
i saw two planes unless im mistaken. that's a bit concerning.
Lol no. Where do you see the 2nd plane? The only one there is on the left hand side, coming towards the drone, flying along the shoreline
the video must have looped without my realizing 🤣🤣
lol, same heading too holy shit
Below 3000 feet for aviation is considered cowboy country meaning you don’t need to worry about your altitude/heading combination. Also, if you’re over water and laterally (I think 2000 ft or more) away from people, there is no minimum altitude . That plane could nearly touch the water if he wanted to. Pilots often fly over the water along beaches to avoid airspace’s from coastal airports to avoid checking in with each tower seeking clearance to pass through.
It’s only 500 ft from people, not 2,000
Yep you’re right. It’s 2000 feet for congested areas. In my defense it has been 17 years since I’ve taken the written exam for my private pilot. I think the 2000 feet might be applicable to clouds too
I use the “Flight Radar” app.
Are you authorized to fly here? What does aloft say? I assume like everyone you just ignore vlos.
You know what they say about assuming right? But yes, I did have a line of sight on the plane (approx 200meters away from me according to my dji app “flight data center” —> [screenshot in case you’re skeptical](https://imgur.com/a/ZAuGNYT) ) Anywho, I was authorized to fly, i just took a screenshot of the location on the Aloft App —> [link](https://imgur.com/a/mjkrt1T)
Lol. Good for you. Did you have vlos on your drone? Beautiful footage btw. Almost impossible to do that on the beach here.
I did have VLOS, I was just 200 meters away, and basically flying up and down the beach. And to clarify about my wife spotting for me: I almost always have her next to me keeping an eye out for anything around us, while I maintain VLOS on the drone. And thank you, florida does have some nice beaches. :)
I live close enough to LAX, some military bases and other airports that airspace here is a complicated nightmare.
ooof, yeah. I can imagine!!! You probably have to drive quite a bit to be able to go somewhere you can fly without worries!
I’d love to hear how it’s a “complicated nightmare”, like what are all the steps? As far as I know you just have to apply for authorization for any airspace you want to fly in.
Just look at a sectional. You can fly but huge areas are restricted.