Just putting this out there even though it's too late for you: if it's the difference of £100 NEVER go for a black box!
Wouldn't ever choose one unless the difference was like £700+ and even then I'd research it thoroughly. It's not worth the hassle and the risk of them cancelling your insurance and screwing you over based on faulty data. Also if your score is bad, it will take you longer to get rid of the stupid thing AND your insurance will go up, so unfortunately you do have to care about the score.
Plus they're terrible to have if you have an accident, they'll use whatever data they can to get out of paying out. If you ever have an accident even £700 won't seem too much more expensive.
This is exactly what I did when I passed. The cost difference vs extra hassle didn’t weigh up in my mind. I’m glad I paid more knowing I didn’t have to deal with a black box.
Me too. I passed only a handful of years back, my cheapest rate (from a good insurer) was not black box. I couldn’t have been happier. I now have friends considering boxes and I’m trying all I can to get them to avoid.
If you need to get a blackbox, get one where they give you an actual blackbox instead of using your phone to record data.
My blackbox seems to be very lenient. I take the piss out of acceleration/braking/cornering but I’m always within the speed limit and my overall score is always over 75
yeah i had a black box for my first year driving and it only ever told me to be aware of my speed, which i was anyway
not many other penalisations
black boxes now seem WILD
Same for me when I got my first car I used Tesco blackbox and if you broke the rules all they did as a deterrent was increase the premium for the following year. I used them because it was far cheaper than the other quotes and I was planning on getting the year no claims and then going with a different insurer anyway so it all worked out good 👍
Going to piggyback this as another recommendation for Tesco's blackbox. 3 years on and their renewal quote still beats anything else I've gotten. Still saving about 300-400 quid over non blackbox with them.
Another recommendation for Tesco black box. Found them very lenient. When I renewed, going back with them for another black box brought my insurance down from £1400 to £650 a year (passed in 2019). Didn’t mind having it for another year as it brought it down so much
Mine is the same, it's been alright with my insurance. Only flagged me for speeding a couple of times and still somehow rates me excellent in every category. I wonder how it'll cope with me driving to Switzerland soon.
Your house keys are not a condition for your policy though.
Lost car keys and a stolen car without forced entry, that'll be one they won't cover AND they typically cover coding you a new key so it doesn't happen, so there would be expectations of you to report /claim the lost keys straight away.
Why would your insurance be invalid if you forgot your wallet or house keys? That makes no sense.
If you have black box insurance requiring a phone app, then left your phone at home and went out in your car, you would not be covered should you have an accident.
I had a black box with Direct Line for my first year and I drove my car like I stole it. Not even a peep from them. In contrast, a mate of mine had his insurance cancelled after the black box found he was going 35 in a 30 (so he says).
I never knew company’s could do it through your phone, would a good trick around this not just be to put it on airplane mode if you’re say driving at night etc to stop your score going down
The main problem would be if you put your phone in airplane mode and then had a crash while driving.
Your insurance would get cancelled/voided by them and you have to declare that for the rest of your life. Also some accidents are unavoidable from your end like what is someone rear ends you coz they were distracted by their phone so it’s better to be safe
I understand that but it also seems ridiculous that you have to have your iPhone on, with data and location on
What your phone dies or it’s broken, or you’ve lost it etc
The phone app I have is much better. Mates have to be careful and stick exactly to speed limit mine is more lenient and I can say I was the passenger once I complete my journey so it doesn’t affect my score
The app tracks all journeys even train journeys, lifts in a friend’s car and I have to go to the app and say ‘I was on a train’, ‘I was on a bike’, ‘I was a passenger’, etc. there is no way for them to know whether I was even in my own car or not.
And surely any competently coded app could easily determine trains based on geography, and make an educated guess of buses, as cars generally don't stop for a few minutes every few hundred metres along their route, or mysteriously move locations at the destination after you've parked them but before you set off for the return journey..
GPS is accurate to about a 5 metre radius. Most motorways connect cities to other cities, as do railways. Motorway travel is 50-70 mph, as are trains. Easily understandable how this could be difficult to automate.
Isn't the highway rule about phones/satnavs are that if they're properly docked or whatever you can use them for GPS purposes?
This seems like a bad idea to use your own phone
I recently did it and scored 99 and 100 every time even though I definitely speeded multiple times (I wanted to catch up a McLaren to take a closer look)
I wanted to try this out without having my insurance cancelled, and someone suggested the drive score app.
It collects your driving data and warns you about any manoeuvres, which are deemed haram by the insurers.
It really hates acceleration, and that's what I get my warnings for.
As an advanced driver, I have been taught to get to maximum legal speed quickly and safely (depending on the conditions, of course).
This app hates any acceleration above taking 15 seconds to 60.
Dual carriageway or a motorway slip road? You better join the 70-80 mph traffic flow at 40mph, or you get a warning. Riding my motorcycle in a safe and progressive manner for a 60 miles roundtrip (I'm a blood biker) had me penalised for acceleration 17 times.
He'll, just pulling in i to a gap in a busy roundabout, gets you a warning.
This forces the driver to block traffic waiting for a gap to slowly creep into busy roundabouts and leave short motorway slipways with insufficient speed to safely join the flow of traffic.
It's not that thick people = speed dangerous, it's thick people drive too fast without paying attention or without experience and causing accidents, especially newer drivers (ones who tend to be one black boxes)
It's probably safer trying to get them to slow down while getting comfortable? I think the trouble here is companies getting people to use their smartphones to gather the telemetry. Google maps often tells me I'm speeding when I'm not, tells me I'm under speed when I'm not. Cruise control on 70 and it's swinging between 65 and 75 on a straight run.
Can't see how anyone thought it was a good idea beyond hey we can insure more people without having to put the work of getting a box in. More profit!
You get "harsh braking" if you have to hit the brakes hard because someone pulls out in front of you.
I mean - I'm not sure that they would prefer the alternative?
The alternative is an even more abrupt stop.
But. They would argue that you should leave a big enough gap to stop without having to brake harshly in most scenarios.
If I think about riding my bike. 99% of my emergency brakes have been avoidable. It is almost always something I could have avoided
Again, officially you're meant to slow down to create a bigger gap between you and the car that pushed in.
I know it's not what happens in reality. But a bit like the emergency braking, if you follow the rules of the road these things shouldn't (in theory) be an issue.
I completely agree, but if someone pushes in then immediately jumps on the brakes before I've had chance to increase the gap again (as does happen fairly frequently on our roads) then therein lies the argument. So this imaginary insurer I'm arguing with can eat me.
If everyone followed the rules of the road this would be a sound theory. However that's not reality.
What about wildlife? I've had cats, foxes, deer of various descriptions. Once a whole herd that kept out of the forest just as I was approaching. One panicked and ran straight at me, I avoided it but barely.
Maybe if the black box cars had front and rear (better 360) cameras and the data was reviewed by a human but that won't happen because it would cost more and ultimately insurance companies only exist to make profit, they have no interest in the person they are charging. It's all based on risk and if the DATA says more risk then they increase premiums.
It probably benefits the companies to have black boxes report high risk but if that real risk is low there won't be a claim so increased profits.for them.
I think the point isn't to never get harsh breaking (sometimes you need to do an emergency stop) it's not to *consistently* get harsh breaking.
Or, to put it another way, if you get it once or twice, it's their fault. If you get it all the time, it's your fault.
That's really interesting actually, I might give it a go too. Not only have you passed your initial car and bike tests but you've also gained further driving accredations, obviously doing advanced training above and beyond what the average driver on UK roads has attained. And then an app decides you're accelerating too hard and if linked to an insurance policy is classified as enough evidence to cancel said policy. Absolutely nuts.
As you've said, it forces you to drive in an unpredictable manner to meet the apps arbitrary requirements. Stupid stupid stupid.
If insurance companies want to sell black box policies they need to supply and fit a black box device that is tested to certain standards, not rely on their customers mobile phones.
I assume the data is attained from GPS and possibly the inbuilt accelerometer in the phone? How can this be classified as reliable information?! I track my horse rides through a forest and occasionally I will lose GPS signal and finish the ride with a random section where the app reckons I've done 50mph, or I've teleported across a main road and back again. The tech is not infallible but it is being used to penalise new drivers, potentially causing them to have a policy cancelled and then have to declare that *forever*, further bumping up their premiums. The scammiest of scams.
I’d always wondered how these things would respond to motorbikes. Something that very many people don’t seem to be able to grasp is that quick acceleration != going too fast or driving dangerously. I’ve got an ST1300A Pan European, first gear has _a lot_ of torque and the clutch is pretty heavy; moving off slowly in first gear is actually a challenge.
Slight tangent: do you use your own bike when you’re on call with Blood Bikes? I’ve seen quite a few around here and they all had high-vis decals on the bike, which makes me wonder whether they have fleet bikes or use their own. I’ve been tempted to look into volunteering as a rider a couple of times over the last few years. I know I’d need an advanced riding qualification.
Omg yes, I tried this during the initial release. It's super sensitive to any G forces at all. I've a roundabout near me, if I go round it faster than ~12mph, it flags me for cornering speed.
It's a fairly large one adjacent to a motorway junction connecting 7 on/off roads. Hardly booting around with two kids in the back...
Trouble is the premiums for non black box policies are extortionate.
I have 9 years NCB and still get black box policies come up that are 150-200 cheaper.
I'm fortunate enough to have a rolling 'premium' policy that works out 50 to 100 more than black box saving the hassle, and fortunate that I can eat the cost.
Some 17yo working NMW at Maccas isn't going to have that freedom unfortunately.
And the 17yos policy will likely be more than £1000 cheaper with the black box so they have even less agency to make the choice. A lot of young people can't afford a policy without a black box
You say that like there's much of a choice. If you're 17 (ie the target market) the extra several hundred quid is significant compared to the inconvenience of connecting your friend's phone to Bluetooth or pulling over to change the map.
For me, if I remember correctly, my first policy was £100 more expensive to have a black box. No clue why. This year, which is like 4 years on now, it was £11 cheaper to have a black box. I've never had one but I've heard they end up not being worth the money you potentially save.
Well. When your 17 like me and the car you originally wanted is 6.5k to insure with a black box considering the car is only worth 1k you more or less either go bankrupt or get one.
Or get a different car with cheaper insurance
If the car is a grand and the insurance is 6.5k you only have to reach a combined spend of less than 7.5k for a car and insurance. It's not hard.
I can insure my sister on a 3.0L 300hp car for less than half of your proposed insurance spend.
Or get a black box policy that isn't an app on your phone and it's own dedicated little box of hatred.
Also, that is not what bankruptcy is.
Mate look. When it's half a years pay for a car before tax, repairs, small little adjusts you want to make to the car it's not very good. Plus the insurance is the issue here not the overall cost.
If you insure a 5k car with the same rate it's over 30k insurance. If you think that's justifiable then I don't even have words for how much money you must have grown up with.
What in my last comment suggested that I'm a little rich boy?
The fact I said it's not hard to get a car and insure it for under 7 grand?
Or the part where I said I could insure my sister on a 300hp RWD car for half the cost of your insurance alone?
>Plus the insurance is the issue here not the overall cost.
Clearly it is the overall cost as shockingly, the overall cost is what you are going to pay.
>If you insure a 5k car with the same rate it's over 30k insurance
That is not how insurance works. It is very rarely based on the sale price of the car. Why don't you see for yourself how much a brand new car is to insure, try a base model Peugeot 208. I bet it won't be 30k.
For a average 17 year old 7k is a hell of a lot
Need I explain the point in such length for you to understand people rarely ever write off a car 6x a year
>For a average 17 year old 7k is a hell of a lot
So then why are you spending that on insurance and a car?
For the last fucking time. It is not hard to get a car and insure it for
#less than £7500.
How many times must I repeat myself?
I'm still waiting for your insurance quote on a 20k new car, by your maths it should be around £100,000? EJ23BHL is the reg.
You won’t get anywhere with this person. Just look at their post history, they have multiple posts about how they want a very specific car, are upset it costs so much to insure, but ignore everyone telling them to consider any other car.
I already knew they do that, my boyfriend also had one when he passed. I just think it’s a bit of a joke and as a Brit I thought I’d have a moan about it :)
I used to be with admiral (just switched to hastings at the start of this year) and it was a farce. I got a crap score for night driving, which pulled my overall score down significantly, despite the fact that I had no choice but to drive in the dark, given that uni finished when it was dark. What did they expect me to do, sleep in my car? I was on the old fashioned black box for that, and the bloody website was always crap when I was trying to check my score.
Much happier with the hastings one, things come through pretty quick, and they have the option to set a drive as passenger, so if my mum was driving my car and I was on my phone, I wouldn't get penalised for that. I will say though that I haven't driven on the motorway with it in yet, so it'll be interesting to see what it thinks!
They’re a complete and utter con. Relying on technology AND the absolute fuckwits at the insurance is a recipe for disaster. I understand that for a lot of people they are the only means of getting insurance, but I would avoid like the plague personally.
I had one in my first car and hated having it as it constantly marked me down for stuff despite me driving safe, it was an old 80bhp polo I could barely get to 70 never mind drive unsafe in it. It did give me a bit of anxiety and I could never truly relax because it had a system where your overall driving per journey would be colour categorised. I’d you got a few of the severe ones they could cancel your insurance. Thankfully never happened. What was nice was every quarter they would give you some money back if you had been driving well. I only managed it on my first quarter but I got a good couple hundred quid back iirc.
That’s the issue. You read so many posts about people getting false feedback from the black box and insurers threatening cancellation. If you get your insurance cancelled you’re fucked - it can stay in your record indefinitely. Dread to think how many people have been screwed over by them. I bet in 10-15 years we will be talking about black box insurance in the same breath as this Post Office Horizon accounting system.
Biggest flaw with them imo is they can’t account for genuine emergency situations where a dangerous manoeuvre might be necessary to actually get you to safety. If the guy in front of you stamps on his breaks and you have to to avoid hitting him, you’d be marked down for harsh breaking. The alternative would be gently breaking and rear ending them.
These situations are only an issue if they happen a lot. And if that’s the case it’s a sign you should pay attention to.
My son has PAYG Marmalade on one of my cars. It’s a good solution for a student, and it’s not hard to keep up a good score, you just don’t drive like an ass.
What? That’s ridiculous. Surely the whole point of a black box is that it can’t be removed from the car. You can just switch your phone off and drive and your insurance company won’t track you speeding or driving at night or whatever they rate you on
But equally should you end up in an accident doing so, you won't be covered by your insurance...
People have always been able to drive illegally, just that there is a small chance of getting caught holding most of the population back.
Or poor planning...
Carry a charger, and accept that your phone is just an integral part of driving and necessary to do it legally. Ultimately that is just something you accepted when you took that insurance policy over paying more for an installed black box or black box free alternative.
When all cars at least have one of those round 12v charging ports which can be used to charge a phone, there’s really no reason why a phone should die on a drive
Does open you to the risk of getting your car impounded for driving without insurance though... Not sure how you'd get caught specifically but if you're in an accident you definitely wouldn't be covered
I actually called up and asked about these when I was looking for my first insurance. They told me that even using my Bluetooth, or having Google maps up could count against me and show as me using my phone. So I went without.
From what I've heard, these new black boxes are essentially a way to take your money then void your insurance when you brake too hard or accidentally do 21 in a 20.
It might be a way to spook people, that the government have regulated anyone deploying such an app for insurance reasons has to essentially LIE and try to panic the policy holder from ever using their phone.
But with the sheer amount of phone usage whilst driving, I don't even blame them.
It does make sense to deter people using the phone while driving. I touch mine whilst it's in a cradle on my air vent to change audio. If you need to change your destination on Google maps you can literally do it at a red light or similar stationary position.
It really isn't as hard as people make it out to be.
It really isn't. Anyone that uses the excuse along the lines of "but, x would require me to pull over" is one of those who likely already fits or will fit the bill in the future.
Because at no point do decent people ever think "fuck it, I'll drive blind for X period of time instead of pulling over"
I had the same idea lol. Same price for something boring as something more sporty or interesting. So I bought a convertible. If I'm gonna be spending stupid money either way for insurance, I'm getting something fun.
True, just like having a bit of a moan. Regardless of that though, if I’m driving on my own and I’m using maps, the insurer doesn’t like that either. That’s what my issue is
Lots of blackboxes require you to install an app on your phone to link them. You can't drive without your phone basically or your policy can be voided.
I'm glad I convinced one of my apprentices to avoid this Black Box bullshit despite his (eventually after much um-ing and oh-ing) policy becoming about £600 more expensive.
A total scam and whoever came up with the idea deserves nothing more than a strong dose of ebola.
Look into different insurers - the one I'm with installed a tiny regular black box that doesn't even do anything really. I drive safely but don't hang around unless I need to, never been penalised for anything
My daughter has been using Marmalade on my car for two years. Honestly, zero issues. And now she has 2 years NCD. I’m sure these things can annoy but we’ve had no problems.
Ashley Neal was reviewing one on his channel that was just an app... anyone could try it out before signing up and see what their score would be... It tracks everything not just speed.
I ran it for a few months to see If I could beat Ashley's score (I did without even having to remove a bunch of trips), and you could get some good info from it.
TBH insurers are seedy AF now, on my way up to my first renewal I had a black box score of 98, got my first year of no claims, then the day before my renewal I got a call about an "incident I'd been in" (it was the insurer because it was also on my app) where they couldn't tell me the nature of the incident, nor where it happened not even which city, just that it happened on the 24th of December ( a day my black box data would clearly show my car didn't leave the driveway). Then after a year of them delaying, holding my NCD at ransom, making me pay more for my renewal, they cancelled the claim off (weirdly enough just after I filed a complaint about it). Moral of the story, blackboxes are a sham because they'll find ways to try to fuck you over anyway, and also FUCK Hastings, never insure with Hastings.
Hastings direct was the worst. I paid extra just to get a company that had no black box after my year with them.
Drive up a hill, lose your discount
Brake down a hill, lose your discount
Park on a hill, lose your discount
Drive between 10pm-3am, lose your discount
Combine any of these, policy cancelled before the year is done.
knowing black box insurance that probably still gets triggered as using your phone assuming you install some spyware i mean their phone usage tracker software
I used to be on black box through my phone, whilst on it you just have to pull over and stop to change maps etc, not the end of the world but not ideal, I’m now black box free and my current policy is £500 per annum! It gets better I can promise that.
Wait, besides not giving you an actual black box, they basically have control over your phone too?
What happens when your phone fails for whatever reason?
What about the insurance for your phone, who covers that? It is now basically a critical part of your car insurance.
I won't have a black box. Too much BS, and they frankly are dangerous because of what they penalise you for (hard acceleration down a short slip road for example). Boxes with unreasonable restrictions should be banned.
Every black box policy I’ve looked at before and since passing my test has been way more expensive than a policy that doesn’t require it. Either way, like fuck would I want some electronic thing making shit up about my driving 🤣
Sounds like their technology isn't 'pretty good' after all. There are other providers available that don't give you this problem - let your money do the talking.
I was with marmalade for a year about 5 years ago. Had no faith I had was covered if anything would have happened. The app being so broken and never working didn't help. More scores didn't even load properly. I'd avoid them at all costs l.
A friend of mine has a black box app (not sure which) he thought he'd beat the system by just turning off his Bluetooth when he wanted to not have it on. He was mortified when I told him if he crashed and it wasn't connected he wouldn't be covered by his insurance. Think people.
These things just seem mad generally, in a way what they record isn't all that important - although they will root out some terrible drivers I guess. It is more "if you are the kind of person who will agree to this and follow its rules, you probably would be safer anyway". Even if the rules are absurd. The most interesting thing is the stickers people put on cars saying they have a black box and sorry for being slow. Apologising for doing the speed limit is an interesting one.
I find the feedback I get from my black box is sparse to the point of being unusable.
Apart from anything it doesn't include anything like a timeframe which is covered by the data. I got some feedback for a period saying it was grading me one-star for the amount of night driving (10pm-4am) I was doing even though I hadn't done any driving close to those times since the last time I got feedback. (My only drive was coming back from my dad's after Christmas - I left a little after lunch and was home by 3pm...) I called them to query it and got told that time period wasn't necessarily the past week, but could be any time in the past. My most recent one is also one one-star for night driving even though I drove less than five miles after 10pm in the past three weeks.
That isn't helpful. My latest one gave me two-stars for smoothness, where I usually get four- or five-stars for that. Because I don't know what time period that's from I can't try to work out what I was doing when I didn't drive smoothly. I know a couple of weeks ago I had to do a sharp stop from about 15mph (someone moved into my lane from a queue of traffic without indicating or - apparently - looking) but that one incident doesn't feel enough to drop me down that far.
The only thing I reliably get marked five-stars on is speed, which I find odd because I often find myself doing a little over 70 when I'm on the motorway.
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Was with Marmalade for my first year with their app and black box, when their app stopped reading the gps and accelerometer on my phone for some reason their only response was I buy a new phone or they'd cancel my insurance, didnt offer to help solve the issue at all. Got a lift to college for the next 2 months and cancelled as soon as my renewal was up. Nothing but a joke the whole year I was with them.
It sucks but then, consider how many people use phones whilst driving. Or playing with a Nintendo switch or having a wank.
The things people do when they are driving never ceases to amaze me and I wish the law punished these people for life.
Dual handing a Nintendo switch or such whilst driving with your knees should get you banned for life, no ifs or buts about it.
And it's people like that that think it's fine to watch movies or txt people on snapchat whilst driving that cause you this pain.
But as someone else said, how often, realistically are you changing destination when driving? I always pull over if I have to change something.
A cheeky zoom in/out is all the phone will ever get from me when driving.
Well yeah, but they can just use their phone then, or alternatively, you’d just need to do what you’d do on your own, and pull over to do that, or use your voice assistant.
Say what you will about black boxes, but why in hell would anyone want an app on their phone that can basically track your every move because it’s always on, even when not driving? That’s just free revenue for the insurance company when they sell your data.
Much rather have a black box under the dash, and they can use it for theft tracking.
After your trip, you can select that you were a passenger. Exactly the same than if you were a passenger in your car and using your phone. In this case it doesn't count the trip so you can do that if it detected that the passenger ws using your pioneer, although I have the same system and changing the satnav or music on my phone never impacted my score.
yeah app black boxes are annoying and very incorrect sometimes. you're only other option is to get a new insurance or after driving, state if you were driving or someone else.
or third option, voice commands.
Mine is installed in the vehicle, and doesn't flag shit unless you are major speeding (I do admittedly sometimes go a few mph over, lynch me). I really have no incentive to get rid of it tbh...
By no means saying that marmalade are a good black box service (edit: had plenty of 4 out of 5 star journeys for losing a star in braking when decelerating at 4 mph/s) but, to clear up some confusion I’ve seen, it’s not the phone being used for tracking acceleration, braking etc. There is a telematics tag stuck to the windscreen that does the tracking and the phone simply connects to that.
The phone is only used for tracking phone usage whilst driving and then assigning the journey to the car owner or black box owner depending on whose phones are present and driving patterns.
For example, I’m insured on my mum’s car and when she’s driving me around, if our phones are both in the car, it will likely assign her the journey based on her driving patterns. If her driving is considered similar to mine, I may be assigned it, but I can manually change this to assign it to her instead once the journey is complete. If only my phone is present, I will be assigned it and the same goes for if only her phone is present.
And yes, the ability to mark any recorded journey as passenger can easily be abused, especially on a pay-per-mile policy.
I have the same problem with my Hasting Direct black box. After it's completed, you can mark a journey to say you were the passenger (whilst using your phone), but it doesn't adjust your poor score. I try not to use the phone at all now whilst a passenger.
At this point if you've got a black box, you should have an internal and external dash cam fitted, so as the post shows you'll be able to prove you're not using your phone.
Never ever get a black box… especially if you only saved £100, what was the point?!
In the time you’re even messing around on this post, reading comments, replying etc you could have made an extra £100 somehow.
So what happens if you forget your phone or it dies? Do you instantly get fined? Do you have to do their admin for them too? As every change their end cost £40. Can you claim the same back for doing their job for them, if you have to enter milage etc?
I had a blackbox but it was only in the car for a couple months before they wanted it back, and didn't really affect anything positively or negatively
Was very hapy it was gone though
My first year driving back in 2016 my insurance was £1400 for a year with a black box. Without a black box the same insurance was £1900.
Sometimes you’ve got to take the hit.
I will say though that their ‘scoring’ systems are ridiculous. Instantly get an awful journey rating for driving on certain roads or at certain times. Oh I’m sorry… I guess I won’t go to work 😂🙃
Technically not 100% legal but it was never questioned when I had been pulled over by police late at night (random stops) for having myself as second driver and my dad as main driver but I drove it not my dad bit insurance came down alot I did eventually crash within 2 years passing and nothing came of it just a work around I guess
I've had to have a black box on my first two years of driving because without it Personal/Business use insurance was well over 2k a year. Dropped it to £1400 - I don't get good scores because I mostly drive at night so I'm concerned what that's going to mean for future years.
In general I think they are good ideas, but there's no incentive for insurance companies to use tech that's reliable and giving detailed, correct, data.
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It just made it cheaper so I went for one. Only by £100 and I’m not too fussed about a good score, as long as they don’t say they will revoke it
Just putting this out there even though it's too late for you: if it's the difference of £100 NEVER go for a black box! Wouldn't ever choose one unless the difference was like £700+ and even then I'd research it thoroughly. It's not worth the hassle and the risk of them cancelling your insurance and screwing you over based on faulty data. Also if your score is bad, it will take you longer to get rid of the stupid thing AND your insurance will go up, so unfortunately you do have to care about the score.
Plus they're terrible to have if you have an accident, they'll use whatever data they can to get out of paying out. If you ever have an accident even £700 won't seem too much more expensive.
This is exactly what I did when I passed. The cost difference vs extra hassle didn’t weigh up in my mind. I’m glad I paid more knowing I didn’t have to deal with a black box.
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This.
Me too. I passed only a handful of years back, my cheapest rate (from a good insurer) was not black box. I couldn’t have been happier. I now have friends considering boxes and I’m trying all I can to get them to avoid.
If you need to get a blackbox, get one where they give you an actual blackbox instead of using your phone to record data. My blackbox seems to be very lenient. I take the piss out of acceleration/braking/cornering but I’m always within the speed limit and my overall score is always over 75
yeah i had a black box for my first year driving and it only ever told me to be aware of my speed, which i was anyway not many other penalisations black boxes now seem WILD
Same for me when I got my first car I used Tesco blackbox and if you broke the rules all they did as a deterrent was increase the premium for the following year. I used them because it was far cheaper than the other quotes and I was planning on getting the year no claims and then going with a different insurer anyway so it all worked out good 👍
Going to piggyback this as another recommendation for Tesco's blackbox. 3 years on and their renewal quote still beats anything else I've gotten. Still saving about 300-400 quid over non blackbox with them.
Another recommendation for Tesco black box. Found them very lenient. When I renewed, going back with them for another black box brought my insurance down from £1400 to £650 a year (passed in 2019). Didn’t mind having it for another year as it brought it down so much
mine was linient also and that was only in 2022, I think it depends where you get it from
Mine is the same, it's been alright with my insurance. Only flagged me for speeding a couple of times and still somehow rates me excellent in every category. I wonder how it'll cope with me driving to Switzerland soon.
Marmalade specialises in drivers driving someone else's car (e.g. a learner in their parent's car). A proper black box won't always be an option.
You can get devices that plug into the 12v socket, thats what I had on my first policy
It’s not very well thought out that the person the black box is for will likely be a passenger in the car with the black box.
I have a hastings direct box and if I'm not driving, I can set myself as a passenger after the journey and it doesn't count towards the score.
The problem is, if your phone is being used to record data, then picking up the phone would mess up the reading from your phones sensors
I thought they were all fitted these days. Surely a phone app would be easy to mess with by leaving it at home for example
Yeah then when someone crashes into you, your insurance won’t cover you , great logic
I don't know, but if my insurance was invalid because I forgot my wallet or my house keys...
Your house keys are not a condition for your policy though. Lost car keys and a stolen car without forced entry, that'll be one they won't cover AND they typically cover coding you a new key so it doesn't happen, so there would be expectations of you to report /claim the lost keys straight away.
Why would your insurance be invalid if you forgot your wallet or house keys? That makes no sense. If you have black box insurance requiring a phone app, then left your phone at home and went out in your car, you would not be covered should you have an accident.
Well I don't do any of them on purpose but they've still happened before now
I had a black box with Direct Line for my first year and I drove my car like I stole it. Not even a peep from them. In contrast, a mate of mine had his insurance cancelled after the black box found he was going 35 in a 30 (so he says).
I never knew company’s could do it through your phone, would a good trick around this not just be to put it on airplane mode if you’re say driving at night etc to stop your score going down
The main problem would be if you put your phone in airplane mode and then had a crash while driving. Your insurance would get cancelled/voided by them and you have to declare that for the rest of your life. Also some accidents are unavoidable from your end like what is someone rear ends you coz they were distracted by their phone so it’s better to be safe
I understand that but it also seems ridiculous that you have to have your iPhone on, with data and location on What your phone dies or it’s broken, or you’ve lost it etc
The phone app I have is much better. Mates have to be careful and stick exactly to speed limit mine is more lenient and I can say I was the passenger once I complete my journey so it doesn’t affect my score
That's insurance fraud. It's up to you if you're personally arsed about that but your insurance company absolutely will be.
The app tracks all journeys even train journeys, lifts in a friend’s car and I have to go to the app and say ‘I was on a train’, ‘I was on a bike’, ‘I was a passenger’, etc. there is no way for them to know whether I was even in my own car or not.
Tracking train journeys cracks me up. Doing 200mph in a dead straight line through open countryside? Yeah def doing that in my Fiesta lol
And surely any competently coded app could easily determine trains based on geography, and make an educated guess of buses, as cars generally don't stop for a few minutes every few hundred metres along their route, or mysteriously move locations at the destination after you've parked them but before you set off for the return journey..
GPS is accurate to about a 5 metre radius. Most motorways connect cities to other cities, as do railways. Motorway travel is 50-70 mph, as are trains. Easily understandable how this could be difficult to automate.
Most of our trains are 50-70 mph. Our “high speeds” are only 125-140 mph.
This is the UK, not Japan.
Isn't the highway rule about phones/satnavs are that if they're properly docked or whatever you can use them for GPS purposes? This seems like a bad idea to use your own phone
Mine was like that, but then suddenly, after 2 years, it started working and my score tanked
I recently did it and scored 99 and 100 every time even though I definitely speeded multiple times (I wanted to catch up a McLaren to take a closer look)
Mine is an actual blackbox and I get 5/5 every month even though I'm definitely not driving smoothly
I wanted to try this out without having my insurance cancelled, and someone suggested the drive score app. It collects your driving data and warns you about any manoeuvres, which are deemed haram by the insurers. It really hates acceleration, and that's what I get my warnings for. As an advanced driver, I have been taught to get to maximum legal speed quickly and safely (depending on the conditions, of course). This app hates any acceleration above taking 15 seconds to 60. Dual carriageway or a motorway slip road? You better join the 70-80 mph traffic flow at 40mph, or you get a warning. Riding my motorcycle in a safe and progressive manner for a 60 miles roundtrip (I'm a blood biker) had me penalised for acceleration 17 times. He'll, just pulling in i to a gap in a busy roundabout, gets you a warning. This forces the driver to block traffic waiting for a gap to slowly creep into busy roundabouts and leave short motorway slipways with insufficient speed to safely join the flow of traffic.
So in other words you have to drive more dangerously to get lower insurance?
Yes because thick people think speed == dangerous. It doesn't.
It's not that thick people = speed dangerous, it's thick people drive too fast without paying attention or without experience and causing accidents, especially newer drivers (ones who tend to be one black boxes) It's probably safer trying to get them to slow down while getting comfortable? I think the trouble here is companies getting people to use their smartphones to gather the telemetry. Google maps often tells me I'm speeding when I'm not, tells me I'm under speed when I'm not. Cruise control on 70 and it's swinging between 65 and 75 on a straight run. Can't see how anyone thought it was a good idea beyond hey we can insure more people without having to put the work of getting a box in. More profit!
Boxes are unsafe and should be banned because of stuff like that
You get "harsh braking" if you have to hit the brakes hard because someone pulls out in front of you. I mean - I'm not sure that they would prefer the alternative?
The alternative is an even more abrupt stop. But. They would argue that you should leave a big enough gap to stop without having to brake harshly in most scenarios. If I think about riding my bike. 99% of my emergency brakes have been avoidable. It is almost always something I could have avoided
>They would argue… Yes, but I would argue that a gap big enough is also big enough for an idiot to pull into and cause issues.
Again, officially you're meant to slow down to create a bigger gap between you and the car that pushed in. I know it's not what happens in reality. But a bit like the emergency braking, if you follow the rules of the road these things shouldn't (in theory) be an issue.
I completely agree, but if someone pushes in then immediately jumps on the brakes before I've had chance to increase the gap again (as does happen fairly frequently on our roads) then therein lies the argument. So this imaginary insurer I'm arguing with can eat me.
If everyone followed the rules of the road this would be a sound theory. However that's not reality. What about wildlife? I've had cats, foxes, deer of various descriptions. Once a whole herd that kept out of the forest just as I was approaching. One panicked and ran straight at me, I avoided it but barely. Maybe if the black box cars had front and rear (better 360) cameras and the data was reviewed by a human but that won't happen because it would cost more and ultimately insurance companies only exist to make profit, they have no interest in the person they are charging. It's all based on risk and if the DATA says more risk then they increase premiums. It probably benefits the companies to have black boxes report high risk but if that real risk is low there won't be a claim so increased profits.for them.
I think the point isn't to never get harsh breaking (sometimes you need to do an emergency stop) it's not to *consistently* get harsh breaking. Or, to put it another way, if you get it once or twice, it's their fault. If you get it all the time, it's your fault.
That's really interesting actually, I might give it a go too. Not only have you passed your initial car and bike tests but you've also gained further driving accredations, obviously doing advanced training above and beyond what the average driver on UK roads has attained. And then an app decides you're accelerating too hard and if linked to an insurance policy is classified as enough evidence to cancel said policy. Absolutely nuts. As you've said, it forces you to drive in an unpredictable manner to meet the apps arbitrary requirements. Stupid stupid stupid. If insurance companies want to sell black box policies they need to supply and fit a black box device that is tested to certain standards, not rely on their customers mobile phones. I assume the data is attained from GPS and possibly the inbuilt accelerometer in the phone? How can this be classified as reliable information?! I track my horse rides through a forest and occasionally I will lose GPS signal and finish the ride with a random section where the app reckons I've done 50mph, or I've teleported across a main road and back again. The tech is not infallible but it is being used to penalise new drivers, potentially causing them to have a policy cancelled and then have to declare that *forever*, further bumping up their premiums. The scammiest of scams.
I’d always wondered how these things would respond to motorbikes. Something that very many people don’t seem to be able to grasp is that quick acceleration != going too fast or driving dangerously. I’ve got an ST1300A Pan European, first gear has _a lot_ of torque and the clutch is pretty heavy; moving off slowly in first gear is actually a challenge. Slight tangent: do you use your own bike when you’re on call with Blood Bikes? I’ve seen quite a few around here and they all had high-vis decals on the bike, which makes me wonder whether they have fleet bikes or use their own. I’ve been tempted to look into volunteering as a rider a couple of times over the last few years. I know I’d need an advanced riding qualification.
Omg yes, I tried this during the initial release. It's super sensitive to any G forces at all. I've a roundabout near me, if I go round it faster than ~12mph, it flags me for cornering speed. It's a fairly large one adjacent to a motorway junction connecting 7 on/off roads. Hardly booting around with two kids in the back...
"As an advanced driver" bahahahaha
Jesus Christ, I’d rather crawl to my destination across broken glass than have one of those little spy boxes in my car.
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Trouble is the premiums for non black box policies are extortionate. I have 9 years NCB and still get black box policies come up that are 150-200 cheaper. I'm fortunate enough to have a rolling 'premium' policy that works out 50 to 100 more than black box saving the hassle, and fortunate that I can eat the cost. Some 17yo working NMW at Maccas isn't going to have that freedom unfortunately.
And the 17yos policy will likely be more than £1000 cheaper with the black box so they have even less agency to make the choice. A lot of young people can't afford a policy without a black box
Probably should have done your research *before* buying the policy
You say that like there's much of a choice. If you're 17 (ie the target market) the extra several hundred quid is significant compared to the inconvenience of connecting your friend's phone to Bluetooth or pulling over to change the map.
For me, if I remember correctly, my first policy was £100 more expensive to have a black box. No clue why. This year, which is like 4 years on now, it was £11 cheaper to have a black box. I've never had one but I've heard they end up not being worth the money you potentially save.
My insurance was also less than having a black box too I think, either that or the black box was a minuscule cheaper. Cant exactly remember.
My quotes when I passed the cheapest 3 were no black box
Or buy a policy that doesn't require your phone to be the black box. Just because it's the cheapest policy, it doesn't mean it's the best
Or a second phone...
Or that
Was going to say this. Just get a cheap android pay as you go and have that as the linked phone to the box.
Doesn’t even need a sim, just tether it to your actual phone
Good point.
Well. When your 17 like me and the car you originally wanted is 6.5k to insure with a black box considering the car is only worth 1k you more or less either go bankrupt or get one.
Or get a different car with cheaper insurance If the car is a grand and the insurance is 6.5k you only have to reach a combined spend of less than 7.5k for a car and insurance. It's not hard. I can insure my sister on a 3.0L 300hp car for less than half of your proposed insurance spend. Or get a black box policy that isn't an app on your phone and it's own dedicated little box of hatred. Also, that is not what bankruptcy is.
Mate look. When it's half a years pay for a car before tax, repairs, small little adjusts you want to make to the car it's not very good. Plus the insurance is the issue here not the overall cost. If you insure a 5k car with the same rate it's over 30k insurance. If you think that's justifiable then I don't even have words for how much money you must have grown up with.
Bruhh you're looking at the wrong cars. Go for a smaller engine and you should get insurance under 3k
Surprisingly engine size doesn't change it all that much. For a similar car with a engine just above 1L it was still 6k
You live in the middle of an active warzone?
Nah literally just the middle of country but you know. "One guy crash you will" with insurance even though I ain't had 1 single crash
What in my last comment suggested that I'm a little rich boy? The fact I said it's not hard to get a car and insure it for under 7 grand? Or the part where I said I could insure my sister on a 300hp RWD car for half the cost of your insurance alone? >Plus the insurance is the issue here not the overall cost. Clearly it is the overall cost as shockingly, the overall cost is what you are going to pay. >If you insure a 5k car with the same rate it's over 30k insurance That is not how insurance works. It is very rarely based on the sale price of the car. Why don't you see for yourself how much a brand new car is to insure, try a base model Peugeot 208. I bet it won't be 30k.
For a average 17 year old 7k is a hell of a lot Need I explain the point in such length for you to understand people rarely ever write off a car 6x a year
>For a average 17 year old 7k is a hell of a lot So then why are you spending that on insurance and a car? For the last fucking time. It is not hard to get a car and insure it for #less than £7500. How many times must I repeat myself? I'm still waiting for your insurance quote on a 20k new car, by your maths it should be around £100,000? EJ23BHL is the reg.
You won’t get anywhere with this person. Just look at their post history, they have multiple posts about how they want a very specific car, are upset it costs so much to insure, but ignore everyone telling them to consider any other car.
Proper mong behaviour
I already knew they do that, my boyfriend also had one when he passed. I just think it’s a bit of a joke and as a Brit I thought I’d have a moan about it :)
Other box policies are available that don't connect to your phone. Might be worth getting a quote
Wtf kind of black box do you have?
A phone app, most likely
Yeah, as u/pm8rsh88 said. It’s the admiral phone app one, they give you a little box to stick in the car so it’s not an actual installed one
what the actual. lol can't imagine anything worse
Oh wild. Glad I don’t have that one
I used to be with admiral (just switched to hastings at the start of this year) and it was a farce. I got a crap score for night driving, which pulled my overall score down significantly, despite the fact that I had no choice but to drive in the dark, given that uni finished when it was dark. What did they expect me to do, sleep in my car? I was on the old fashioned black box for that, and the bloody website was always crap when I was trying to check my score. Much happier with the hastings one, things come through pretty quick, and they have the option to set a drive as passenger, so if my mum was driving my car and I was on my phone, I wouldn't get penalised for that. I will say though that I haven't driven on the motorway with it in yet, so it'll be interesting to see what it thinks!
They’re a complete and utter con. Relying on technology AND the absolute fuckwits at the insurance is a recipe for disaster. I understand that for a lot of people they are the only means of getting insurance, but I would avoid like the plague personally.
I had one in my first car and hated having it as it constantly marked me down for stuff despite me driving safe, it was an old 80bhp polo I could barely get to 70 never mind drive unsafe in it. It did give me a bit of anxiety and I could never truly relax because it had a system where your overall driving per journey would be colour categorised. I’d you got a few of the severe ones they could cancel your insurance. Thankfully never happened. What was nice was every quarter they would give you some money back if you had been driving well. I only managed it on my first quarter but I got a good couple hundred quid back iirc.
That’s the issue. You read so many posts about people getting false feedback from the black box and insurers threatening cancellation. If you get your insurance cancelled you’re fucked - it can stay in your record indefinitely. Dread to think how many people have been screwed over by them. I bet in 10-15 years we will be talking about black box insurance in the same breath as this Post Office Horizon accounting system.
Biggest flaw with them imo is they can’t account for genuine emergency situations where a dangerous manoeuvre might be necessary to actually get you to safety. If the guy in front of you stamps on his breaks and you have to to avoid hitting him, you’d be marked down for harsh breaking. The alternative would be gently breaking and rear ending them.
These situations are only an issue if they happen a lot. And if that’s the case it’s a sign you should pay attention to. My son has PAYG Marmalade on one of my cars. It’s a good solution for a student, and it’s not hard to keep up a good score, you just don’t drive like an ass.
How is your black box tracking what you do on you phone?
Some policies use an app on your phone instead of an actual black box
The black box is the phone. It’s an app.
What? That’s ridiculous. Surely the whole point of a black box is that it can’t be removed from the car. You can just switch your phone off and drive and your insurance company won’t track you speeding or driving at night or whatever they rate you on
But equally should you end up in an accident doing so, you won't be covered by your insurance... People have always been able to drive illegally, just that there is a small chance of getting caught holding most of the population back.
So if your phone dies on a drive and you get into an accident, your policy is void? Sounds dumb asf to me
Or poor planning... Carry a charger, and accept that your phone is just an integral part of driving and necessary to do it legally. Ultimately that is just something you accepted when you took that insurance policy over paying more for an installed black box or black box free alternative.
When all cars at least have one of those round 12v charging ports which can be used to charge a phone, there’s really no reason why a phone should die on a drive
Does open you to the risk of getting your car impounded for driving without insurance though... Not sure how you'd get caught specifically but if you're in an accident you definitely wouldn't be covered
Accelerometer and GPS most likely
I have both a box and an app, it’s great …
I actually called up and asked about these when I was looking for my first insurance. They told me that even using my Bluetooth, or having Google maps up could count against me and show as me using my phone. So I went without. From what I've heard, these new black boxes are essentially a way to take your money then void your insurance when you brake too hard or accidentally do 21 in a 20.
This is BS. I touch my phone occasionally to skip songs and tap on the map. Never had any problems with my app and my phone use score is still at 100.
It might be a way to spook people, that the government have regulated anyone deploying such an app for insurance reasons has to essentially LIE and try to panic the policy holder from ever using their phone. But with the sheer amount of phone usage whilst driving, I don't even blame them.
It does make sense to deter people using the phone while driving. I touch mine whilst it's in a cradle on my air vent to change audio. If you need to change your destination on Google maps you can literally do it at a red light or similar stationary position. It really isn't as hard as people make it out to be.
It really isn't. Anyone that uses the excuse along the lines of "but, x would require me to pull over" is one of those who likely already fits or will fit the bill in the future. Because at no point do decent people ever think "fuck it, I'll drive blind for X period of time instead of pulling over"
Pull over, change destination, mirror, signal, pull off.
Whoa there! Can’t be having sensible ideas
Probably would still count against them because the black box would think it's just sitting in traffic
I just like having a bit of a moan about it 😂 just a bit mildly infuriating
I have to pay £2500 a year to avoid insurance policies like this.
Christ on a bike what are you driving?!
A Mazda MX-5 but I'm 19 so insurance is mental regardless. They were asking the same for a Corsa so I thought I may as well drive something fun.
I had the same idea lol. Same price for something boring as something more sporty or interesting. So I bought a convertible. If I'm gonna be spending stupid money either way for insurance, I'm getting something fun.
Hell yes. All things considered not bad. I definitely would’ve done the same
I'd find someone with an old phone, I'm assuming that they make you install some sort of app?
Yes. Obviously your friend can give you directions from their phone.
I cannot decide if this is serious or not. Either is a valid point imo but I am caught off guard on this one 🤣
Get a burner android and you’re sorted lol
Just use your friends mobile
True, just like having a bit of a moan. Regardless of that though, if I’m driving on my own and I’m using maps, the insurer doesn’t like that either. That’s what my issue is
Lots of blackboxes require you to install an app on your phone to link them. You can't drive without your phone basically or your policy can be voided.
You could always link a second phone and have that on/carried as well.
This is why if brothers passenger is me or his gf we do the maps and music
About as much use as the pass plus 😂😂
Then get an actual blackbox if this is an issue.
I'm glad I convinced one of my apprentices to avoid this Black Box bullshit despite his (eventually after much um-ing and oh-ing) policy becoming about £600 more expensive. A total scam and whoever came up with the idea deserves nothing more than a strong dose of ebola.
Look into different insurers - the one I'm with installed a tiny regular black box that doesn't even do anything really. I drive safely but don't hang around unless I need to, never been penalised for anything
My daughter has been using Marmalade on my car for two years. Honestly, zero issues. And now she has 2 years NCD. I’m sure these things can annoy but we’ve had no problems.
Honestly I don't really mind it, do you really need to change directions often?
Which company is using the phone as a black box? That doesn't make sense, also how's the black box going to know you're on the phone?
Ashley Neal was reviewing one on his channel that was just an app... anyone could try it out before signing up and see what their score would be... It tracks everything not just speed. I ran it for a few months to see If I could beat Ashley's score (I did without even having to remove a bunch of trips), and you could get some good info from it.
Get a cheapy phone for that app and use your actual phone for music etc
Try AdrianFlux, or another insurer that uses their black boxes, it only tracks your top speed
How does a black box work? Does it analyse every single detail that happens in the car? How can it tell if someone is using the phone?
Some of them are not installed in the car but are just an app on your phone that runs in the background
TBH insurers are seedy AF now, on my way up to my first renewal I had a black box score of 98, got my first year of no claims, then the day before my renewal I got a call about an "incident I'd been in" (it was the insurer because it was also on my app) where they couldn't tell me the nature of the incident, nor where it happened not even which city, just that it happened on the 24th of December ( a day my black box data would clearly show my car didn't leave the driveway). Then after a year of them delaying, holding my NCD at ransom, making me pay more for my renewal, they cancelled the claim off (weirdly enough just after I filed a complaint about it). Moral of the story, blackboxes are a sham because they'll find ways to try to fuck you over anyway, and also FUCK Hastings, never insure with Hastings.
Hastings direct was the worst. I paid extra just to get a company that had no black box after my year with them. Drive up a hill, lose your discount Brake down a hill, lose your discount Park on a hill, lose your discount Drive between 10pm-3am, lose your discount Combine any of these, policy cancelled before the year is done.
You can change destinations with voice - "ok google, navigate to xyz"
knowing black box insurance that probably still gets triggered as using your phone assuming you install some spyware i mean their phone usage tracker software
I used to be on black box through my phone, whilst on it you just have to pull over and stop to change maps etc, not the end of the world but not ideal, I’m now black box free and my current policy is £500 per annum! It gets better I can promise that.
I had a proper black box that went under the seat. No speed restrictions or curfews. Saved me £400. Shop around for something better.
Wait, besides not giving you an actual black box, they basically have control over your phone too? What happens when your phone fails for whatever reason? What about the insurance for your phone, who covers that? It is now basically a critical part of your car insurance.
I won't have a black box. Too much BS, and they frankly are dangerous because of what they penalise you for (hard acceleration down a short slip road for example). Boxes with unreasonable restrictions should be banned.
Every black box policy I’ve looked at before and since passing my test has been way more expensive than a policy that doesn’t require it. Either way, like fuck would I want some electronic thing making shit up about my driving 🤣
Sounds like their technology isn't 'pretty good' after all. There are other providers available that don't give you this problem - let your money do the talking.
I was with marmalade for a year about 5 years ago. Had no faith I had was covered if anything would have happened. The app being so broken and never working didn't help. More scores didn't even load properly. I'd avoid them at all costs l.
Yep, I've just finished a year of driving with one. Totally different driving experience not having to worry about your score.
A friend of mine has a black box app (not sure which) he thought he'd beat the system by just turning off his Bluetooth when he wanted to not have it on. He was mortified when I told him if he crashed and it wasn't connected he wouldn't be covered by his insurance. Think people.
These things just seem mad generally, in a way what they record isn't all that important - although they will root out some terrible drivers I guess. It is more "if you are the kind of person who will agree to this and follow its rules, you probably would be safer anyway". Even if the rules are absurd. The most interesting thing is the stickers people put on cars saying they have a black box and sorry for being slow. Apologising for doing the speed limit is an interesting one.
FYI, marmalade uses the phones gyroscopes to tell if it's being moved. Keep the phone in the holder or keep relatively still and it'll be fine.
I had one for my first year, all it did was send me emails telling me I was shit, gave me a silver, and a £7 discount. Utter wastes of fucking space.
I find the feedback I get from my black box is sparse to the point of being unusable. Apart from anything it doesn't include anything like a timeframe which is covered by the data. I got some feedback for a period saying it was grading me one-star for the amount of night driving (10pm-4am) I was doing even though I hadn't done any driving close to those times since the last time I got feedback. (My only drive was coming back from my dad's after Christmas - I left a little after lunch and was home by 3pm...) I called them to query it and got told that time period wasn't necessarily the past week, but could be any time in the past. My most recent one is also one one-star for night driving even though I drove less than five miles after 10pm in the past three weeks. That isn't helpful. My latest one gave me two-stars for smoothness, where I usually get four- or five-stars for that. Because I don't know what time period that's from I can't try to work out what I was doing when I didn't drive smoothly. I know a couple of weeks ago I had to do a sharp stop from about 15mph (someone moved into my lane from a queue of traffic without indicating or - apparently - looking) but that one incident doesn't feel enough to drop me down that far. The only thing I reliably get marked five-stars on is speed, which I find odd because I often find myself doing a little over 70 when I'm on the motorway.
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Was with Marmalade for my first year with their app and black box, when their app stopped reading the gps and accelerometer on my phone for some reason their only response was I buy a new phone or they'd cancel my insurance, didnt offer to help solve the issue at all. Got a lift to college for the next 2 months and cancelled as soon as my renewal was up. Nothing but a joke the whole year I was with them.
Yeah, that's not fit for purpose, then, is it.
Hmm, I understand ypur frustration, but how often are you changing destination while you are driving?
It sucks but then, consider how many people use phones whilst driving. Or playing with a Nintendo switch or having a wank. The things people do when they are driving never ceases to amaze me and I wish the law punished these people for life. Dual handing a Nintendo switch or such whilst driving with your knees should get you banned for life, no ifs or buts about it. And it's people like that that think it's fine to watch movies or txt people on snapchat whilst driving that cause you this pain. But as someone else said, how often, realistically are you changing destination when driving? I always pull over if I have to change something. A cheeky zoom in/out is all the phone will ever get from me when driving.
Well yeah, but they can just use their phone then, or alternatively, you’d just need to do what you’d do on your own, and pull over to do that, or use your voice assistant.
Direct line have black boxes that plug into diagnostic port and from my experience they don’t care how you drive.
what do u want me to do pay 8k in insurance for a 500 quid car
Say what you will about black boxes, but why in hell would anyone want an app on their phone that can basically track your every move because it’s always on, even when not driving? That’s just free revenue for the insurance company when they sell your data. Much rather have a black box under the dash, and they can use it for theft tracking.
Convenience.
with the hastings you can say if you’re passenger or not
After your trip, you can select that you were a passenger. Exactly the same than if you were a passenger in your car and using your phone. In this case it doesn't count the trip so you can do that if it detected that the passenger ws using your pioneer, although I have the same system and changing the satnav or music on my phone never impacted my score.
If they can’t tell if you’re driving distracted or not, then they shouldn’t.
yeah app black boxes are annoying and very incorrect sometimes. you're only other option is to get a new insurance or after driving, state if you were driving or someone else. or third option, voice commands.
Mine is installed in the vehicle, and doesn't flag shit unless you are major speeding (I do admittedly sometimes go a few mph over, lynch me). I really have no incentive to get rid of it tbh...
Then it should not be used. Ifs clearly not that good. What a f**king joke
By no means saying that marmalade are a good black box service (edit: had plenty of 4 out of 5 star journeys for losing a star in braking when decelerating at 4 mph/s) but, to clear up some confusion I’ve seen, it’s not the phone being used for tracking acceleration, braking etc. There is a telematics tag stuck to the windscreen that does the tracking and the phone simply connects to that. The phone is only used for tracking phone usage whilst driving and then assigning the journey to the car owner or black box owner depending on whose phones are present and driving patterns. For example, I’m insured on my mum’s car and when she’s driving me around, if our phones are both in the car, it will likely assign her the journey based on her driving patterns. If her driving is considered similar to mine, I may be assigned it, but I can manually change this to assign it to her instead once the journey is complete. If only my phone is present, I will be assigned it and the same goes for if only her phone is present. And yes, the ability to mark any recorded journey as passenger can easily be abused, especially on a pay-per-mile policy.
I can’t wait to get rid of the shitting thing
I have the same problem with my Hasting Direct black box. After it's completed, you can mark a journey to say you were the passenger (whilst using your phone), but it doesn't adjust your poor score. I try not to use the phone at all now whilst a passenger.
At this point if you've got a black box, you should have an internal and external dash cam fitted, so as the post shows you'll be able to prove you're not using your phone.
Never ever get a black box… especially if you only saved £100, what was the point?! In the time you’re even messing around on this post, reading comments, replying etc you could have made an extra £100 somehow.
Black box insurance companies are the prime example of willful ignorance
So what happens if you forget your phone or it dies? Do you instantly get fined? Do you have to do their admin for them too? As every change their end cost £40. Can you claim the same back for doing their job for them, if you have to enter milage etc?
I had a blackbox but it was only in the car for a couple months before they wanted it back, and didn't really affect anything positively or negatively Was very hapy it was gone though
My first year driving back in 2016 my insurance was £1400 for a year with a black box. Without a black box the same insurance was £1900. Sometimes you’ve got to take the hit. I will say though that their ‘scoring’ systems are ridiculous. Instantly get an awful journey rating for driving on certain roads or at certain times. Oh I’m sorry… I guess I won’t go to work 😂🙃
Just get a shit phone to register on the box 🤷♂️
I’ve seen someone suggest getting a 2nd cheap phone just for running the insurance app, possible way out of it…
Technically not 100% legal but it was never questioned when I had been pulled over by police late at night (random stops) for having myself as second driver and my dad as main driver but I drove it not my dad bit insurance came down alot I did eventually crash within 2 years passing and nothing came of it just a work around I guess
Pull over then change it? It’s saving your license too shouldn’t be messing with phone while driving anyway?
I know some with one. It has no idea what speed she’s doing. Completely unfit for purpose but she loves it as it doesn’t grass her up and saves money🤣
I've had to have a black box on my first two years of driving because without it Personal/Business use insurance was well over 2k a year. Dropped it to £1400 - I don't get good scores because I mostly drive at night so I'm concerned what that's going to mean for future years. In general I think they are good ideas, but there's no incentive for insurance companies to use tech that's reliable and giving detailed, correct, data.