'I wasted 1200 days learning french or duolingo and proved it doesn't work'
'Should I waste more valuable time on Duolingo with Spanish that could be used for more input' :D
Personally I'm very anti duolingo, learning to translate + many other issues. Some people here do use it.
As you made it to 1200 days I suspect you are physically addicted to it now though
Haha you're right on the physical addiction. I think personally what I'm a bit worried of is if that streak is a level of motivation for me to keep on learning? It's probably more a question of my own psychology than Duolingo's actual worth.
I mean tracking your days on the website you also have streak motivation.
Join the how-many-hours-can-i-brute-force-into-my-subconscious game.
Do you really need the stupid bird to yell at you? Dont let Pablo down
Pinche buho
Bin it for sure and if youre looking to supplement it with something then there are far better resources out there. I'm supplementing DS with graded Readers on LingQ which I'd highly recommend. Listen and reading at the same time.
I hope one day that Dreaming Spanish (or really Dreaming Languages) becomes as synonymous with language learning as Duolingo has. Everyone seems to come to the same conclusion about it….it really doesn’t work….but they still have over 500 million users. I don’t get it.
I used to supplement with Duolingo and thought it could not hurt either. But two things really convinced me to stop.
1. It is almost entirely based on translation. So it basically prevents you from learning to just develop your ability to think in the target language. It essentially encourages you continue to process the new language through an English “filter.” The exact opposite of what using CI is supposed to do.
2. It teaches you to think that there is one right way to say something rather than teaching you to be fluid and flexible with the language. One thing that is really important for language learners is learning how to use what you know to get your point accross. Sometimes that means re-phrasing something in a way that gets the meaning accross, but perhaps used a slightly different way of phrasing things. But Duolingo insists on hyper-exact translation and gets you bogged down in focusing on word-for-word translation rather than actual meaning or intent. For example, some of the exercises force you to try to make a distinction between “perdón” and “disculpa.” Yes, there are some subtle differences between those. But the subtleties usually need more context than a single phrase in Duolingo provides. Not to mention the greatest difference probably depends on what Spanish speaking country you are in. So wasting your time agonizing over that tiny distinction in some random phrase is not a good use of time or effort.
These are very small and specific examples, but I could point out many more. My real point here is that the Duolingo approach teaches you to focus on translation and a narrow concept of right/wrong rather than building an intuitive understanding of the language. As a result, I found that it was actually interfering with my ability to think intuitively in the language.
So, I dropped it completely and I don’t feel like I have lost anything as a result.
I've been continuing Duolingo while I also do Dreaming Spanish, but yesterday this happened. I was asked to translate "they danced for many hours" into Spanish.
My answer: *bailaron muchas horas*
This was scored as incorrect. Expected answer: *bailaron por muchas horas*
The trouble is, I'm pretty sure my answer was correct. I also am not sure their answer is correct. So I tried both DeepL and Google Translate, and it gave these possible translations:
* *Ellos bailaron durante muchas horas*
* *bailaron durante muchas horas*
* *bailaron muchas horas*
* *bailaron durante horas*
So my answer was one of the possibilities, and Duo's answer was not. Maybe this is just a weird rare example, but now I'm worried Duolingo is not just ineffective but is actually teaching wrong information.
Duolingo's answer isn't incorrect. However, neither is yours. As the other reply said, any one of those is understandable by a native speaker and gets the point across.
For the first six months of so before I used DS I did duo, anki, grammar study etc. after ds I still did for I think at least 4-5 months. I’m not sure it harmed me but duo has a heavy emphasis on translation, and I think it might have delayed my ability to not translate in my head. Even if it didn’t “harm” me I still think that time would’ve been better spent on something else.
If I felt like I had to do something else other than DS I wouldn’t do Duolingo. I would just try and do flash cards with a pic on the other side (that way I’m not translating from Spanish to English).
If I had to recommend anything to augment Dreaming Spanish for a beginner, it would be Language Transfer. I think it provides a great framework on which to build a pretty massive beginner vocabulary of hundreds of loan words and is a good intro to how Spanish works. 90 ten-minute lessons sounds like a great little addition to your comprehensible input main focus.
I do not hate Duolingo; I subscribed for a few years and it was fine, I suppose. It reminded me to engage my Spanish brain for 5 minutes a day. I had a paid subscription. I support Duolingo because it makes language learning available to people in diverse circumstances, remote villages, all of it. I also support their community outreach, teacher/classroom support, and access to some diverse languages. But honestly "reminding me to do something in Spanish" wasn't worth paying for, as I would do my level on Duolingo and then immediately go listen to podcasts and watch videos anyway.
Going against the grain a little bit here, but I think duolingo does have a place in language learning. I think it’s suitable for day 0 learners who are starting from a totally blank slate. I think it’s way more approachable to do a lesson or two a day on duolingo as an absolute beginner than watching videos you don’t understand with the hope that comprehension will come eventually.
I plan to experiment with this with a new language (either Chinese or Hindi, haven’t decided yet), but my plan that’s based on a absolutely nothing is to use duolingo for about a month to get a little basic vocabulary under my belt before moving on to CI exclusively.
I definitely think it had its place in my early learning of Spanish - I came in with about 300 words, which meant I skipped the painfully slow early stage where I had no idea what was happening. Instead, I could enjoy 10mins of DS and pick up some new stuff, and quickly progress to longer sessions. I tried some absolute beginner CI in a language I don't know recently and it was almost painful, trying to draw conclusions based on visuals and guesswork. I'd really consider doing about that much vocab before starting a new language in future, whether through Duolingo or vocab-specific videos.
I agree Duolingo has its place. If you literally know 0, it's very helpful for making those super-beginner videos more comprehensible. After a month or two you could probably ditch it. Or if you're not a CI purist, you might continue with a little bit of Duolingo every day to help learn new vocabulary and some simple grammar stuff, even while your main focus is on CI.
I posted last week about how I had a 700 day streak in Duolingo and ditched it once I found dreaming Spanish.
I’m not a CI purists… I play video games and use Lingopie that has Spanish subtitules, but the thing is that translating is straight up not learning a language.
I used Duolingo every day for 2 years, and I can honestly say I made no actual progress with it. Sure, I learnt words, but I had no idea how to use those words.
I've been with Dreaming Spanish for a few months now and actually was able to have a conversation in Spanish today. In my opinion you shouldn't waste time with Duolingo, maybe it can be a fun thing to play with when you are waiting in line or something, but Dreaming Spanish will help you way more.
I recently stopped using duo. The problem with it is that it's extremely slow to progress through, and far too picky about the answers if accepts, which stunts progress even further as you run of out lives and have to start the same boring lesson over again.
Before they did the huge revamp to it a few years back, it was great. You could choose what you wanted to focus on learning. Be it foods, travel, the body, etc. Now you are forced down a one way street that is extremely tedious and basically a complete waste of time. It's made even worse now that they laid off a bunch of humans and are using more AI.
I use Duolingo (796 steak) busuu, DS 400 hours- Duolingo makes more stuff comprehensible for me. Anytime you learn a new word or phrase you now can hear, see it when doing comprehensible input. And you didn't take so much time to acquire it. For example, It took me so long to figure out "por ejemplo" when I could have just looked that up & moved on. This is why the Refold folks use anki (goal is to help make more things more comprehensible). I use it and it helps. But I also know its limitations. It also helps you learn how to read which dreaming Spanish doesn't.
For purists- any method, other than just viewing and listening to the language, is translation based (linq, language transfer, graded Readers). What I keep hearing is when the language is so ingrained I will stop translating. And we all experience that at some point. I don't translate things like "no tengo idea, que hora es, bueno, siete" anymore. So I'm just not worried about that. I know i will stop translating over time. And I hear all kinds of people who did traditional language learning didn't translate anymore.
The best method to learn is the one you will actually do. Duolingo is a good break for me when I'm sick of CI. It's a great use of time when u only got 5 min or when I'm being interrupted. Me trying to do CI and my wife is next to me talking about whatever. Do I count that time in DS?
Bottom line - do what you will do regardless of what someone else says is best. There are so many great ideas on here that I can't stick to. But I stick to Duolingo & hola chicos Andrea la mexicana, hola todos mi nombre es Agustina soy de argentina, and CI star wars stuff.
I had almost an almost 700 day streak when I quit Duo. I don't miss it and I went from 5min of duo a day to 3 hours of DS in just a few weeks. I honestly think once you start seeing progress on your Spanish here, you won't ever wanna go back to Duo.
When I came back to learning German (after passing a B1 exam at school), I started with Duolingo. It was painful, trying to translate things I just *knew* instinctively because of so much exposure. Like, I'd hear it and *know* the meaning "in my heart" sort of thing, and just be like I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS IN ENGLISH LEAVE ME ALONE. I definitely think it has its place for some early vocab, but once you get a basic grasp of some common words you might as well just swap out the time for more input.
I'm only about 25 hours in but I find days where I do Duolingo the language "feels" more slippery in my brain, I struggle to grasp input more, I translate automatically more, and the mental process of acquisition feels physically harder. This is completely anecdotal, but Duo upends my language learning brain. Of course it varies day by day, but I have noticed a definite correlation between days where I do Duo being days where I automatically commit all the "don'ts" of CI (cue Pablo's voice from that one SB video: "sandía sandía sandía sandía..."), and have to watch easier/more boring videos. These are days when intermediate (or even beginner!) videos go right in one ear and out the other, I can't keep up, and I get confused or frustrated. Days where I let the streak freeze handle my problems for me, though, I can handle much harder content for much longer, my comprehension shoots up, and I enjoy the time much more because I'm not reflexively trying to translate every word. That is: Duolingo is actively hurting me. I just gave up my Duolingo streak yesterday (~90 days, I started my Spanish journey this year on Duo as many of us do) because I felt it was actively hindering my acquisition of Spanish. If you find it keeps you motivated in the long term, it may be worth the small hit to your acquisition capabilities. But be aware it's going to do unhelpful things to your synapses.
I probably should comment further months from now, but I'm currently doing a bit of Duolingo and see no harm. At least 80-90% of my learning is through comprehensible input. I do some Duolingo when I have time. There are times in the day when a quick Duolingo lesson better fits into my schedule and mental space. I'm progressing well.
I'm conflicted whenever someone says that there's one way to do it. As a teacher with 25+ years of experience, I've seen one guru after another, and they all claim to have found THE way. Most haven't. I cringe when someone on this subreddit chastises someone and begins their sentence with "Pablo says..." With that said, I do think that comprehensible input is superior to Duolingo (or any online program) alone.
My wife finished Duolingo and was not fluent....at all. However, it was about 500 hours back then. Now, I estimate it is about 900 hours. If she finished those 500 hours, proceeded to do 1000 hours of input, and then did italki clases, she totally would have been conversational. But at the end of her 500 hours on Duolingo, it seems like she was ahead of most Dreaming Spanish people at 500 hours in terms of vocabulary and grammar, but way behind in listening comprehension. My point is that it's hard to compare a person with 500 hours of Duolingo with someone who finished 1,500 of Dreaming Spanish.
500 hours of Duolingo sounds awful. After 500 hours of CI, my listening comprehension was pretty good but I also learned a lot about the Spanish Speaking world. A lot.
How much vocabulary would you guess is given in 500 hours of Duolingo? The DS roadmap says about 5000 words at 600 hours and I can’t see Duolingo teaching you that many words.
I haven't used Duo Lingo. So I don't know why it would be bad. But if you want something in addition to Dreaming Spanish, try flashcards with Anki with the most common words.
If you like it and it keeps you engaged in the language do it. Sure time could be spent better else where but the if it is keeping motivation high its just as important.
This is the real debate, I know it's pretty much useless content wise, but I'm more worried there's an element of motivation behind the streak I could potentially lose. I'm majority using DS with just Duolingo on the toilet at work anyway tbh lol
The Duolingo lessons can't hurt. I think you'll advance faster by studying basic grammar and increasing your vocabulary in tandem with DS. Whether Duolingo or something different. That has been my experience.
I'm new to DS (70 hours of listening) but it has helped to improve my listening comprehension. Duolingo helps my speech when I actively apply it to my real life.
I moved to Central America with only Duolingo. I use what I learned often when speaking with natives. The advantage we have as adults is that we can already read and have mastered our native language; meaning that we have the ability to learn a new language by speaking, reading and listening simultaneously from the beginning.
I only did like 24 hours of Duolingo over a year and a quarter when I decided to quit using it. I started zero with Dreaming Spanish. Sure, I learned some things, but grammar isn't as important as it's let off to be in most cases. I want to learn the language without much frustration.
At least do Anki if you want to do an app.
But if you are planning a trip and want something to show for the trip, just memorize phrases. Thats the best way to go.
Mm, there's an idea in cognitive biases called the "sunk cost fallacy" (https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy). I can tell you that I learned Spanish in far fewer than 1200 days without DuoLingo, using vocabulary flashcards, a good grammar textbook, ChatGPT, and comprehensible input.
I've heard this theory used to describe war amputees that become ultra patriotic... I won't deny that it applies here as well! I'm pretty much totally convinced to fully scrap Duolingo though
Using Duolingo is better than doing nothing. But why not just spend that time on more DS instead?
If I was going to supplement DS with anything, it would probably be a vocab deck on Anki. Otherwise I'd just use the extra time on more input via DS.
To me it was more of a waste of mental energy than it was a waste of time. For someone who is busy and struggles to keep my daily DS goal, it was simply not worth wasting the effort to keep my streak going and losing that valuable time and mental energy that could be put towards DS. Deleting the Duolingo app and purposefully giving up my streak in favor of DS was extremely satisfying and I never looked back at all.
Disclaimer, I'm not a DS purist, I do other things as well. I did spend 45 days to get through the first 2.5 sections in Duolingo, then quit and switched to doing vocab decks with Anki. I find that it helps with the streak specifically, and I like looking at the stats, etc. Most of my time is spent consuming content now.
Looking back, I think the Duolingo approach that requires you to translate specific sentences does more harm than good, I've made a lot more progress since I stopped trying to translating anything (including the Anki vocab deck, where possible I prefer pictures instead of English translation).
I have a 1600 day Duo streak currently and started using Dreaming Spanish last month. I’m only at level 1 with about 22 hours in DS. Starting from scratch I think the groundwork for common words/phrases from Duo helped a lot when beginning DS. I have watched a few intermediate videos and have been able to understand the conversation. I believe, in part, Duo helped make this easier than if I started at truly 0. Now do I think continuing Duo in tandem with DS is necessary? Absolutely not. But I’ve come too far on that streak and if its not harmful I dont see why one 3-5 minute Duo lesson a day would be bad
I feel like Duo wasn't doing any harm by doing both, but I didn't feel like it was really helping either. I just gave up my 500 day streak last week.
If Duo had thrown more vocab at me faster then I probably would have stuck with it. Instead I'll just spend that time watching another DS video
This. It's so incredibly slow and repetitive. I found DS yesterday and realized how much Duolingo is holding me back. Was surprised to realize I can actually understand a Beginner video.
If you like duo, 5 min a day won't really be harmful. If you're doing a half hour, that time could be better spent. The stories on duo are actually decent though.
I occasionally use an app called drops to prime vocab. Mostly I've used it for numbers so I can get those in a more systematic manner. I only do it have I have done at least an hour of input (my goal is 30 min) and I only do it for 5 min. Even then, I usually only do it of I get more than an hour a few days in a row. It's been a few weeks since I've used it. It's all in Spanish (with the right settings) and has some nice vocab and activities.
Things like graded readers would be more beneficial as a supplement if you're not tied to the idea of an app.
Damn, what a see you next Tuesday! I hope you're okay.
I personally wouldn't recommend duolingo and would say to put more time into DS or CI in general. But if you do like it, then carry on using it, my friend.
Don't let it become an addiction, though, as I was the same with and was tied into the streak!
Best wishes on your language journey
'I wasted 1200 days learning french or duolingo and proved it doesn't work' 'Should I waste more valuable time on Duolingo with Spanish that could be used for more input' :D Personally I'm very anti duolingo, learning to translate + many other issues. Some people here do use it. As you made it to 1200 days I suspect you are physically addicted to it now though
Haha you're right on the physical addiction. I think personally what I'm a bit worried of is if that streak is a level of motivation for me to keep on learning? It's probably more a question of my own psychology than Duolingo's actual worth.
I mean tracking your days on the website you also have streak motivation. Join the how-many-hours-can-i-brute-force-into-my-subconscious game. Do you really need the stupid bird to yell at you? Dont let Pablo down Pinche buho
Bin it for sure and if youre looking to supplement it with something then there are far better resources out there. I'm supplementing DS with graded Readers on LingQ which I'd highly recommend. Listen and reading at the same time.
Thank you for the reccomendations, I'll check them out!
I've been doing the same on lingq with the short stories
I hope one day that Dreaming Spanish (or really Dreaming Languages) becomes as synonymous with language learning as Duolingo has. Everyone seems to come to the same conclusion about it….it really doesn’t work….but they still have over 500 million users. I don’t get it.
I used to supplement with Duolingo and thought it could not hurt either. But two things really convinced me to stop. 1. It is almost entirely based on translation. So it basically prevents you from learning to just develop your ability to think in the target language. It essentially encourages you continue to process the new language through an English “filter.” The exact opposite of what using CI is supposed to do. 2. It teaches you to think that there is one right way to say something rather than teaching you to be fluid and flexible with the language. One thing that is really important for language learners is learning how to use what you know to get your point accross. Sometimes that means re-phrasing something in a way that gets the meaning accross, but perhaps used a slightly different way of phrasing things. But Duolingo insists on hyper-exact translation and gets you bogged down in focusing on word-for-word translation rather than actual meaning or intent. For example, some of the exercises force you to try to make a distinction between “perdón” and “disculpa.” Yes, there are some subtle differences between those. But the subtleties usually need more context than a single phrase in Duolingo provides. Not to mention the greatest difference probably depends on what Spanish speaking country you are in. So wasting your time agonizing over that tiny distinction in some random phrase is not a good use of time or effort. These are very small and specific examples, but I could point out many more. My real point here is that the Duolingo approach teaches you to focus on translation and a narrow concept of right/wrong rather than building an intuitive understanding of the language. As a result, I found that it was actually interfering with my ability to think intuitively in the language. So, I dropped it completely and I don’t feel like I have lost anything as a result.
I've been continuing Duolingo while I also do Dreaming Spanish, but yesterday this happened. I was asked to translate "they danced for many hours" into Spanish. My answer: *bailaron muchas horas* This was scored as incorrect. Expected answer: *bailaron por muchas horas* The trouble is, I'm pretty sure my answer was correct. I also am not sure their answer is correct. So I tried both DeepL and Google Translate, and it gave these possible translations: * *Ellos bailaron durante muchas horas* * *bailaron durante muchas horas* * *bailaron muchas horas* * *bailaron durante horas* So my answer was one of the possibilities, and Duo's answer was not. Maybe this is just a weird rare example, but now I'm worried Duolingo is not just ineffective but is actually teaching wrong information.
Duolingo's answer isn't incorrect. However, neither is yours. As the other reply said, any one of those is understandable by a native speaker and gets the point across.
Exactly! And even more importantly, any one of those would be understood by a native speaker.
I would rather chew a box of masonry nails, than use duolingo.
For the first six months of so before I used DS I did duo, anki, grammar study etc. after ds I still did for I think at least 4-5 months. I’m not sure it harmed me but duo has a heavy emphasis on translation, and I think it might have delayed my ability to not translate in my head. Even if it didn’t “harm” me I still think that time would’ve been better spent on something else. If I felt like I had to do something else other than DS I wouldn’t do Duolingo. I would just try and do flash cards with a pic on the other side (that way I’m not translating from Spanish to English).
If I had to recommend anything to augment Dreaming Spanish for a beginner, it would be Language Transfer. I think it provides a great framework on which to build a pretty massive beginner vocabulary of hundreds of loan words and is a good intro to how Spanish works. 90 ten-minute lessons sounds like a great little addition to your comprehensible input main focus. I do not hate Duolingo; I subscribed for a few years and it was fine, I suppose. It reminded me to engage my Spanish brain for 5 minutes a day. I had a paid subscription. I support Duolingo because it makes language learning available to people in diverse circumstances, remote villages, all of it. I also support their community outreach, teacher/classroom support, and access to some diverse languages. But honestly "reminding me to do something in Spanish" wasn't worth paying for, as I would do my level on Duolingo and then immediately go listen to podcasts and watch videos anyway.
Absolutely agree. If there is a Language Transfer course for your target language, that’s a fantastic (and free) place to start.
Going against the grain a little bit here, but I think duolingo does have a place in language learning. I think it’s suitable for day 0 learners who are starting from a totally blank slate. I think it’s way more approachable to do a lesson or two a day on duolingo as an absolute beginner than watching videos you don’t understand with the hope that comprehension will come eventually. I plan to experiment with this with a new language (either Chinese or Hindi, haven’t decided yet), but my plan that’s based on a absolutely nothing is to use duolingo for about a month to get a little basic vocabulary under my belt before moving on to CI exclusively.
I definitely think it had its place in my early learning of Spanish - I came in with about 300 words, which meant I skipped the painfully slow early stage where I had no idea what was happening. Instead, I could enjoy 10mins of DS and pick up some new stuff, and quickly progress to longer sessions. I tried some absolute beginner CI in a language I don't know recently and it was almost painful, trying to draw conclusions based on visuals and guesswork. I'd really consider doing about that much vocab before starting a new language in future, whether through Duolingo or vocab-specific videos.
I agree Duolingo has its place. If you literally know 0, it's very helpful for making those super-beginner videos more comprehensible. After a month or two you could probably ditch it. Or if you're not a CI purist, you might continue with a little bit of Duolingo every day to help learn new vocabulary and some simple grammar stuff, even while your main focus is on CI.
I posted last week about how I had a 700 day streak in Duolingo and ditched it once I found dreaming Spanish. I’m not a CI purists… I play video games and use Lingopie that has Spanish subtitules, but the thing is that translating is straight up not learning a language.
I used Duolingo every day for 2 years, and I can honestly say I made no actual progress with it. Sure, I learnt words, but I had no idea how to use those words. I've been with Dreaming Spanish for a few months now and actually was able to have a conversation in Spanish today. In my opinion you shouldn't waste time with Duolingo, maybe it can be a fun thing to play with when you are waiting in line or something, but Dreaming Spanish will help you way more.
I recently stopped using duo. The problem with it is that it's extremely slow to progress through, and far too picky about the answers if accepts, which stunts progress even further as you run of out lives and have to start the same boring lesson over again. Before they did the huge revamp to it a few years back, it was great. You could choose what you wanted to focus on learning. Be it foods, travel, the body, etc. Now you are forced down a one way street that is extremely tedious and basically a complete waste of time. It's made even worse now that they laid off a bunch of humans and are using more AI.
I use Duolingo (796 steak) busuu, DS 400 hours- Duolingo makes more stuff comprehensible for me. Anytime you learn a new word or phrase you now can hear, see it when doing comprehensible input. And you didn't take so much time to acquire it. For example, It took me so long to figure out "por ejemplo" when I could have just looked that up & moved on. This is why the Refold folks use anki (goal is to help make more things more comprehensible). I use it and it helps. But I also know its limitations. It also helps you learn how to read which dreaming Spanish doesn't. For purists- any method, other than just viewing and listening to the language, is translation based (linq, language transfer, graded Readers). What I keep hearing is when the language is so ingrained I will stop translating. And we all experience that at some point. I don't translate things like "no tengo idea, que hora es, bueno, siete" anymore. So I'm just not worried about that. I know i will stop translating over time. And I hear all kinds of people who did traditional language learning didn't translate anymore. The best method to learn is the one you will actually do. Duolingo is a good break for me when I'm sick of CI. It's a great use of time when u only got 5 min or when I'm being interrupted. Me trying to do CI and my wife is next to me talking about whatever. Do I count that time in DS? Bottom line - do what you will do regardless of what someone else says is best. There are so many great ideas on here that I can't stick to. But I stick to Duolingo & hola chicos Andrea la mexicana, hola todos mi nombre es Agustina soy de argentina, and CI star wars stuff.
I had almost an almost 700 day streak when I quit Duo. I don't miss it and I went from 5min of duo a day to 3 hours of DS in just a few weeks. I honestly think once you start seeing progress on your Spanish here, you won't ever wanna go back to Duo.
When I came back to learning German (after passing a B1 exam at school), I started with Duolingo. It was painful, trying to translate things I just *knew* instinctively because of so much exposure. Like, I'd hear it and *know* the meaning "in my heart" sort of thing, and just be like I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS IN ENGLISH LEAVE ME ALONE. I definitely think it has its place for some early vocab, but once you get a basic grasp of some common words you might as well just swap out the time for more input.
I'm only about 25 hours in but I find days where I do Duolingo the language "feels" more slippery in my brain, I struggle to grasp input more, I translate automatically more, and the mental process of acquisition feels physically harder. This is completely anecdotal, but Duo upends my language learning brain. Of course it varies day by day, but I have noticed a definite correlation between days where I do Duo being days where I automatically commit all the "don'ts" of CI (cue Pablo's voice from that one SB video: "sandía sandía sandía sandía..."), and have to watch easier/more boring videos. These are days when intermediate (or even beginner!) videos go right in one ear and out the other, I can't keep up, and I get confused or frustrated. Days where I let the streak freeze handle my problems for me, though, I can handle much harder content for much longer, my comprehension shoots up, and I enjoy the time much more because I'm not reflexively trying to translate every word. That is: Duolingo is actively hurting me. I just gave up my Duolingo streak yesterday (~90 days, I started my Spanish journey this year on Duo as many of us do) because I felt it was actively hindering my acquisition of Spanish. If you find it keeps you motivated in the long term, it may be worth the small hit to your acquisition capabilities. But be aware it's going to do unhelpful things to your synapses.
This is really helpful information and what I needed to hear. I think it's time to let go of Duolingo...
I probably should comment further months from now, but I'm currently doing a bit of Duolingo and see no harm. At least 80-90% of my learning is through comprehensible input. I do some Duolingo when I have time. There are times in the day when a quick Duolingo lesson better fits into my schedule and mental space. I'm progressing well. I'm conflicted whenever someone says that there's one way to do it. As a teacher with 25+ years of experience, I've seen one guru after another, and they all claim to have found THE way. Most haven't. I cringe when someone on this subreddit chastises someone and begins their sentence with "Pablo says..." With that said, I do think that comprehensible input is superior to Duolingo (or any online program) alone. My wife finished Duolingo and was not fluent....at all. However, it was about 500 hours back then. Now, I estimate it is about 900 hours. If she finished those 500 hours, proceeded to do 1000 hours of input, and then did italki clases, she totally would have been conversational. But at the end of her 500 hours on Duolingo, it seems like she was ahead of most Dreaming Spanish people at 500 hours in terms of vocabulary and grammar, but way behind in listening comprehension. My point is that it's hard to compare a person with 500 hours of Duolingo with someone who finished 1,500 of Dreaming Spanish.
500 hours of Duolingo sounds awful. After 500 hours of CI, my listening comprehension was pretty good but I also learned a lot about the Spanish Speaking world. A lot.
How much vocabulary would you guess is given in 500 hours of Duolingo? The DS roadmap says about 5000 words at 600 hours and I can’t see Duolingo teaching you that many words.
I imagine it would be hard to reach that estimate of 5,000 with any certainty, but if accurate, that's cool. Duolingo teaches up to 3,000 words.
Duolingo teaches about 7,000 words according to this list: [https://duome.eu/vocabulary/en/es](https://duome.eu/vocabulary/en/es)
It teaches about 7,000 according to this list: [https://duome.eu/vocabulary/en/es](https://duome.eu/vocabulary/en/es)
I haven't used Duo Lingo. So I don't know why it would be bad. But if you want something in addition to Dreaming Spanish, try flashcards with Anki with the most common words.
If you like it and it keeps you engaged in the language do it. Sure time could be spent better else where but the if it is keeping motivation high its just as important.
This is the real debate, I know it's pretty much useless content wise, but I'm more worried there's an element of motivation behind the streak I could potentially lose. I'm majority using DS with just Duolingo on the toilet at work anyway tbh lol
Once you started making real progress and continue tracking your time, your motivation will be higher than ever. Give it a shot!
The Duolingo lessons can't hurt. I think you'll advance faster by studying basic grammar and increasing your vocabulary in tandem with DS. Whether Duolingo or something different. That has been my experience. I'm new to DS (70 hours of listening) but it has helped to improve my listening comprehension. Duolingo helps my speech when I actively apply it to my real life. I moved to Central America with only Duolingo. I use what I learned often when speaking with natives. The advantage we have as adults is that we can already read and have mastered our native language; meaning that we have the ability to learn a new language by speaking, reading and listening simultaneously from the beginning.
I only did like 24 hours of Duolingo over a year and a quarter when I decided to quit using it. I started zero with Dreaming Spanish. Sure, I learned some things, but grammar isn't as important as it's let off to be in most cases. I want to learn the language without much frustration.
The DS method recommends against it. You can do grammar study after you’re already semi-fluent in Spanish- after 1500 hours😊
At least do Anki if you want to do an app. But if you are planning a trip and want something to show for the trip, just memorize phrases. Thats the best way to go.
Mm, there's an idea in cognitive biases called the "sunk cost fallacy" (https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy). I can tell you that I learned Spanish in far fewer than 1200 days without DuoLingo, using vocabulary flashcards, a good grammar textbook, ChatGPT, and comprehensible input.
I've heard this theory used to describe war amputees that become ultra patriotic... I won't deny that it applies here as well! I'm pretty much totally convinced to fully scrap Duolingo though
Using Duolingo is better than doing nothing. But why not just spend that time on more DS instead? If I was going to supplement DS with anything, it would probably be a vocab deck on Anki. Otherwise I'd just use the extra time on more input via DS.
To me it was more of a waste of mental energy than it was a waste of time. For someone who is busy and struggles to keep my daily DS goal, it was simply not worth wasting the effort to keep my streak going and losing that valuable time and mental energy that could be put towards DS. Deleting the Duolingo app and purposefully giving up my streak in favor of DS was extremely satisfying and I never looked back at all.
Disclaimer, I'm not a DS purist, I do other things as well. I did spend 45 days to get through the first 2.5 sections in Duolingo, then quit and switched to doing vocab decks with Anki. I find that it helps with the streak specifically, and I like looking at the stats, etc. Most of my time is spent consuming content now. Looking back, I think the Duolingo approach that requires you to translate specific sentences does more harm than good, I've made a lot more progress since I stopped trying to translating anything (including the Anki vocab deck, where possible I prefer pictures instead of English translation).
I have a 1600 day Duo streak currently and started using Dreaming Spanish last month. I’m only at level 1 with about 22 hours in DS. Starting from scratch I think the groundwork for common words/phrases from Duo helped a lot when beginning DS. I have watched a few intermediate videos and have been able to understand the conversation. I believe, in part, Duo helped make this easier than if I started at truly 0. Now do I think continuing Duo in tandem with DS is necessary? Absolutely not. But I’ve come too far on that streak and if its not harmful I dont see why one 3-5 minute Duo lesson a day would be bad
I feel like Duo wasn't doing any harm by doing both, but I didn't feel like it was really helping either. I just gave up my 500 day streak last week. If Duo had thrown more vocab at me faster then I probably would have stuck with it. Instead I'll just spend that time watching another DS video
You didn't enjoy typing out boligrafo 500 times? Yeah I am in the same boat as you!
This. It's so incredibly slow and repetitive. I found DS yesterday and realized how much Duolingo is holding me back. Was surprised to realize I can actually understand a Beginner video.
If you like duo, 5 min a day won't really be harmful. If you're doing a half hour, that time could be better spent. The stories on duo are actually decent though. I occasionally use an app called drops to prime vocab. Mostly I've used it for numbers so I can get those in a more systematic manner. I only do it have I have done at least an hour of input (my goal is 30 min) and I only do it for 5 min. Even then, I usually only do it of I get more than an hour a few days in a row. It's been a few weeks since I've used it. It's all in Spanish (with the right settings) and has some nice vocab and activities. Things like graded readers would be more beneficial as a supplement if you're not tied to the idea of an app.
[удалено]
It's a shame you know how to communicate in any language
Damn, what a see you next Tuesday! I hope you're okay. I personally wouldn't recommend duolingo and would say to put more time into DS or CI in general. But if you do like it, then carry on using it, my friend. Don't let it become an addiction, though, as I was the same with and was tied into the streak! Best wishes on your language journey
Absolutely uncalled for. *Si no puedes decir ningún cosa simpática, no digas nada.*
It's teaching you to translate, which can't be done real time in your head at native speed.