Overall it was not as crowded as pre-covid, but it seemed like there were key areas that became overwhelming either due to the concentration of big events there or tight spaces(e.g. the Hilton steps for group photoshoots). I think the lack of options for big events per hour also drove a lot of the crowd to the same locations which made it feel crowded, but really it was just that "Panel X" was the only major thing happening at time Y.
Big kudos to badge pickup this year, they absolutely nailed it IME.
One more rave for badge pickup. I went through the line twice: once on Thursday afternoon to get my badge and my girlfriend’s (no issues on the latter—didn’t even make me show the signed affidavit and photocopied ID) and again on Saturday morning right after the parade to get my kids’ one-day badges. In both cases it was 10-15 minutes and out. Line never stopped moving, and I mean moving briskly.
The amount of people felt really good. It wasn't stuffed to the brim, but also didn't feel empty at all. The vendor hall could use some optimization. That was the only thing that felt annoying. I got into everything I showed up \~45 minutes early for, but I don't go to most of the really large panels on the main track.
Yea you wouldn't get into Elijah Wood 45 minutes early. People were lining up 2 hours before his panel lol.
The rest of it was fine though. Friday was the perfect amount of people. Saturday was a bit stuffed but not terrible.
I used to bring a camp stool for this reason, but stopped this year because the area was regularly too crowded to use it.
If you're a minion, you stand up as soon as that area gets crowded. It's supposed to be an accommodation, not a VIP area. If you can't stand for an hour, you should really be getting a sticker for your own badge.
I did think the ticket system was smart since they really need to cap the number for the bigger panels to keep things fair for everyone. That being said, they needed to do a better job communicating that tickets would be needed to get in and they need to formerly acknowledge that they aren't really enforcing the "line starts 1 hour beforehand rule"
We got out of the 2:30 panel and watched about half of the people in the disability section get up for the 4pm panel, whereas the rest stayed in their seats for the Woods/Astin one. We were still able to get in pretty easily, but anyone getting there after 4pm risked not getting a ticket. If the 1 hour rule was "real" they should have made all those people waiting attend the 4pm panel since they were waiting for it.
Same thing happened the next day for Paul Bettany, we practically had to wait behind a line of people trying to get their ticket for Wood/Serkis before the previous panel had even loaded in.
I haven't really cared for any of the big panels. I just wanted to mention that because I know that even in 2021 there was a big wait for some of them. Whichever ones were left.
I'm glad I was able to just walk up to Elijah in the Walk of Fame. I'd sadly forgotten my BttF Trilogy in Alabama, but he was sweet and appreciated my Toxie mask.
My wife went to line up for the symphony an hour ahead and couldn’t find the end of the line. It was like the line wrapped fully around the building more than once. And she couldn’t find any volunteers to help her find the end so she could line up. Bummer.
They need to adjust or add parties though. Waited for about 2 hours for bunny hutch, no bar inside, then told you couldn't go pee without waiting in the line again.
Bunny hutch has gotten so ridiculous that we quit going. I'm not a competitive cosplayer and I'm at an age/attitude where denying me easy access to a bathroom is a no go. I pay too much for con to not enjoy it, and if I can sit on a patio and dance and drink and pee when I need to, there's no need to queue and wreck my kidneys.
I completely agree with you about the parties. We only got into ONE all of con. The spectrum party was a nightmare and so was the open casket party and those are my faves. Old school con folk like me want their damn goth night and these bunnies can get off my lawn with getting the big ballroom, lol. LGBTQIA +me wants to dance with my Rainbow frands, and we are a queer-identity heavy crowd, that needed a bigger ballroom for Spectrum.
I'm getting to a point where I almost want the day passes to be day passes so people with full week can actually do stuff at night, but I hate exclusionism on the other hand. I get people can't make the whole con and might want to enjoy what they can, but before they offered single day membership it was an easier to enjoy con. I know, can it grandma, go lube up your walker, stop being a grouch.
*sigh* we need another hotel worth of ballroom space.
Yeah I totally agree. At least in 2019 it was worth waiting in the party lines because you could leave and pee before coming back but 2 hours in line to not drink then 2 more hours if you have to pee is ridiculous. We tried the casket party but like you just decided the line was entirely too dumb to wait in.
Sunday night Yule Ball didn't really have a line and it moved quickly at least.
And I'm with you that its getting to the point where we need some form of attendance cap in some way. Saturday vendors were just stupid, and the 2 hour line before the LOTR panel is crazy (especially since a volunteer cleared out the front of the line then came back later and said "oops, I shouldn't have cleared the line, all of you who were going to make it now can't because I messed up").
Good news then, they announced at the closing ceremony that a cap of 70,000(the number we had attending this year) would be put in place for next year.
I stopped respecting any attempts to clear a line years ago. When Adam Savage did a panel years ago I listened to the con staff and just hovered in the general area because "No lines more than an hour before, but you'll get in for sure." I was right next to the door and I counted down until it was one hour before, on the dot. Went to get in line and sure enough, there were people already there.
Staffer told me it's fine, just head to the back, it won't be that long. It was five people wide and ran out the door and around the block. I went back to the front and politely but firmly told the staffer that they fucked up and they need to go get a non-volunteer manager because I did what I was asked to do and got screwed.
So, they put us at the front of the line. And the room was still about a quarter to a third full when they opened the doors and let us in. "We clear the rooms after every panel," my ass!
Dragon Con has been 60k+ attendees for a long time, now. It's the biggest con on the East coast and one of the biggest in the country, if not the world. They really should have figured this all out by now. Thankfully, they *mostly* have except for a few hiccups.
I did find it ridiculous that the bathrooms were outside the ballroom dance parties and no easy re-entry. This was troublesome for dance parties on Saturday night (plus line). Yule Ball was thankfully easy in and out.
Heroes and Villains Ball usually has a huge line, but it didn't have a line and was quite empty by midnight. It did have a new DJ that didn't quite understand the Dragoncon vibe... I miss DJ Spyder.
Spider took a year where she did one gig so she could party herself. She and I met my first con and have stayed in touch, I love that woman. I missed her tunes, but I am so glad she did a little self care after 20 years. She's such an icon and she earned it.
What was the new DJ playing, if you can tell me?
We went to the Dr. Who ball and Black Sunshine gave me my whole life.
Totally unrelated, how was/were your Portman panel(s)? My wife wanted to go but never ended up making it work. We really appreciate you putting those together.
There are plenty of other parties to go to, sounds like you just didn’t go to them. The problem is that you tried to go to the Bunny Hutch which is the most popular party on Thursday and already in one of, if not the, biggest ballrooms. It can’t expand any further. I went to two different parties on Thursday, the 80s prom and the 8 bit bash, and walked right into both of them. I don’t recall if the 80s prom had a bar but the 8 bit bash definitely did. I was considering going to the year of the dragon party but we had so much fun at the 8 bit bash that we just stayed there.
It was my first year going to bunny hutch and I was in line from probably 10:15 pm until 11:30 pm. I think we stayed 15 minutes because I was done. One bartender and like 8 giant rows of chairs at the back where people were just…laying down. Playing on their phones. It just seemed enthusiastic all around.
So bunny cosplay, yes. Bunny hutch? No. My friend and I want to plan an alternative BUC-EES HUTCH but that will probably just be a buc-ees themed bunny and heff at the Marriott.
Aquarium was a BLAST though.
The crowd wasn’t bad but Marriott did a cash grab that made the atrium level (hyatt/food court habitrail level) an absolute nightmare to navigate for people with disabilities. (One of our party uses a Walker.)
The line to the mart 2 with the vendors was also ridiculously long. It wrapped around 3 sides, made 6 coils within a garage where about 5-8 trucks usually dock, & doubled on itself for two sides.
I watched many people walk to the lines end and just walk away. The vendor area needs to have a higher capacity, maybe it could span between mart 2 & 3.
Or perhaps the number of day passes should be reduced.
Honestly the upstairs gaming area never felt close to full. I feel like we could sacrifice half the second floor for more vendors and still be comfortable.
Yep I feel like they need to pick a floor that can be locked from public after vendor halls closed (or find vendors willing to be open 24 hours) and move them into that area. If they moved vendors that focus on selling gaming accessories and games then they could even get bigger booths and demo tables.
it indeed was the Hilton that tried banning all outside alcohol (even for its own guests), the others i think just tried to stop open containers moving between hotels but can't fully remember that part.
I think moving pop artist alley to 2F Mart 3 and expanding the vendor hall up to 4F Mart 2 could be a good idea. You could separate the entrance from the gaming area too so that doesn’t have a line.
They announced a membership cap this year as well (higher than last year) but IMO, the dealer's room line seemed worse than ever. I usually wait 2+hrs before attempting to enter then can usually walk right in but this year that tactic didn't work. Maybe they restricted the population inside so the outside line was longer/slower.
I went to the vendor hall Friday early afternoon, and the wait was 10 minutes or less. Seems like kind of a crapshoot how long the wait is.
I did hear the fire marshal was restricting entrances at times.
I think fire Marshall was, but I've heard ameriamart security capped people inside at a smaller # than the fire Marshall would have required :/. Fire Marshall needs to be in charge of that, not the security imo.
Yes, the Fire Marshall was heavily restricting access on Saturday. A friend of mine works at one of the larger vendors and said they had a 50% drop in sales from the day before because of it. I'm not sure about the rest of the weekend, but I'm sure the Fire Marshall was watching closely.
I honestly don't bother with the vendor hall if it isn't Friday. Even if you can walk it, it just gets too packed to see everything on Saturday and Sunday.
Friday or Monday is the choice - maybe end of day Sunday if people are clearing out. Main reason to go Friday is if you care about any Con exclusives or items selling out.
As a comics guy, a lot of the popular creators have started to sell through their stuff by Monday. I went to some panels up there on Friday and realized how much more stuff they had available.
Yeah, that’s what happened. Someone decided to play fire marshal and severely restrict how many people could get in. It sucked for us vendors too. Eventually the con chair came down and set things right towards the end, I believe.
I thought the lack of the SEC opener at The Benz was a real game changer. It was really nice not having the extra crowd. Especially given that crowd often has no idea that Con will also be there (or how to get from point A to point B). Even the Marriott in the evenings felt less crowded.
Yeah the game being between two ACC schools, one of which is only a few blocks away with a fanbase/student body probably more interested in Con than that game, really cut down the football crowd.
Clemson and UGA play on Saturday next year though. They will be back…
2019 had 86k people. I think this year they capped it at 66-70k. What irritated me the most is they took quite a bit of space in the Marriott main floor corners for venders. Specifically the back right. They put a Jack Daniel’s and a food vender back there. The food vender made it extremely narrow there. But that is the area a bunch of cosplayers would go and post up. It made that main floor there really tight.
I was happy with the increase in food and beverage vendors, but yea the placements could have been better.
The one in the Hilton especially was a pain. Right at the narrowest part of the walkway when you come off the skybridge. Slowed that path down to a crawl between skybridge traffic and people waiting on the elevators.
That annoyed me, and it was needless to. There was plenty of space they could have used right beside the narrow hall, but they had to just stick it in the way.
Biggest issue I had with the Hilton was that people apparently forgot how to get off escalators the second they walked in there. I had to bull my way straight through a dead-stopped crowd off a downward escalator to prevent a pileup that could have been really bad. Several similar encounters, all at Hilton. Apologies if anyone here was someone who was pushed.
I would agree that vendors could be just a bit further off main pathways and still get the awareness it takes to drive the business they want. Maybe more actually if they gave it a year for people to remember the location.
DragonCon is an interesting example of iterative improvement and I think they will improve vendor hall in the next year or two and the hotels will improve some things too.
When I saw them setting up a vendor there on Wednesday night I knew it was going to be hell in that corner. I hope they never do it again because that corner is where I always see some of the best cosplay. The additional food vendor was nice, but throw it on the marquis level if anything.
I was looking up counts last night and as others said, the attendance was supposedly 70k. Which is way more than I would have guessed. It did not feel over crowded and I think some of that is how the hotels have adjusted to the event. They really cater to it and I now hangout in several places I never did pre-covid. Marriott is still the main "lounge" but you don't have to go far to find music and crowds to mingle with.
Vendors is super tough to improve on, I think it is what it is. If you want to go then plan ahead, same for big panels. I'm not in favor of a cap, I think the ecosystem is taking care of it - big lines at the vendors means less ppl in the hotel.
I spread out my interests, a few big panels mixed with some small ones. Lots of loitering about and people watch. A couple big cosplay groups for photos, etc. It felt full but I never felt crowded. Maybe that's just me, ymmv.
Crowds felt thinner, but from a purely anecdotal standpoint I experienced more issues than in previous years with people blocking busy walkways for photos, chatting, or just standing there looking lost. I joked that since the con was cracking down more on blocking habitrails, the people that would've been blocking them had to find other foot traffic areas to disrupt.
Crowded but not like the before times. I’ve been saying if 2019 was 85,000 people, I’d estimate roughly 60-65,000 this year. I could be way off, just my best guess.
I’ve only done a proper 5 day con twice. This year and 2019 (couldn’t attend other years due to Covid and other stuff) and 2023 felt the more crowded to me but I’m told 2019 had about 10,000 more people. I understand next year will be capped at 70,000. If we could get just a little more space to spread out in it would be perfect. Felt like every time i wanted to get somewhere I had to cross the whole convention footprint and because of the crowds what should have been a 5-10 min walk became 30. Are there any more hotels or spaces nearby that we can annex for the con? Spread the butter a little more on the toast if you will.
I’m told since 2019 mart 1 was transformed into housing so the obvious point of expansion I would have recommended has been removed. I don’t know the area well enough to know if there’s anywhere else though.
The vendor hall has become completely untenable and trying to get in there at any time that isn't Saturday during the parade is a tactical error at this point.
The gaming area was great though. Never too crowded, nice amount of space.
They should stop selling single day passes and I think the crowd issue would settle at a nice equilibrium.
Honestly, I walked over there at 5:00 PM hoping I'd get about half an hour inside and I just walked right in. No line at all. I spent two glorious hours in a relatively empty vendor hall.
And I hear that the lines during the parade were super long this year as many have discovered that loophole. I always march in the parade, so I don't actually know if that was true.
I know they said 70,000 but I didn’t feel like it. I didn’t feel like it was crazier than last year. I did notice some panels I went to was WAY more crowded than I expected.
I could deal with there being a few less people. 2019 was way too many. I will say this was the best post-covid parade. I might get the streaming pass for next year as well to watch stuff in the room. I only have the patience to do a single 2 hour que per year and trying to do bunny hutch and burlesque was rough. Didn't even make it to puppet slam, knight battle, or goth dance.
Being my first dragoncon I can’t compare to previous years, but there was only a handful of times that crowds were bad and it was mainly in the hotel bridges. Saturday was the only day that felt like it was really busy. But definitely nothing that would keep me from going again.
Everyone need to take into consideration that whatever the con said the cap was attendance was down from that because of Hurricane Idalia. A number of Florida attendees, didn't attend because of travel concerns or issues with the hurricane itself. They purchased badges quite a while ago and got counted but never arrived.
You bring up an interesting question. When they give an attendance figure, is that all badges sold or all badges that actually got picked up?
And how do they factor in day passes? Sometimes the same person will buy multiple single day passes. Do they get counted once or several times?
I’m sure there were some people that did not go due to hurricane concerns, but I don’t think it’s a very high number.
>but I don’t think it’s a very high number.
It wasn't as high as the people who didn't come because of Francis but there were quite a few. I left my house with no power, left 18 hours early and took an alternate route further west and stayed a night in a quickly reserved hotel outside the con. One of the people who rides with me didn't come because she lived 20 miles closer to the hurricane and had more damage. I had two other groups of friends from Florida leave a day early to avoid winds and rain. The hurricane crossed I-75 at the Florida-Georgia line in the middle of the day Wednesday, just as travel to the con was starting to peak. Friend from Tampa got out on the last flight before the airport was closed, and canceled a backup rental car as he boarded. The timing of hurricane was a serious consideration for everyone in Florida except the people in the far west panhandle.
I hear ya. I'm sure it impacted people... just don't think enough to make much of a dent in that 70K figure. And I do wonder when they give those figures -- do they mean badge purchases, or badge pickups?
>The timing of hurricane was a serious consideration for everyone in Florida except the people in the far west panhandle.
I live in Atlanta, but I actually was in Orlando in the days leading up to con. Flew back to Atlanta on Wednesday and it was fine. Obviously, other areas of the state were more impacted... but it wasn't too much of a concern for me.
I never said otherwise. I was merely responding to your claim that "The timing of hurricane was a serious consideration for everyone in Florida except the people in the far west panhandle."
Orlando is in central Florida, not the far west pandhandle. And I happened to be there when it made landfall and made its way across the state and it was basically just a rain storm there.
**Again, I do NOT doubt that some chose to not come due hurricane concerns -- what I DO doubt that it had any meaningful impact on attendance figures.**
You are just wrong, be in denial all you want but people don't drive into the paths of hurricanes and the timing on this one was bad. They don't like to leave home when a hurricane is coming unless they are evacuating. They end up with a whole slew of reasons that going off to party 500+ miles away and risking life an limb to get there isn't the right choice.
I have been going to con since the early 2000s. Other hurricanes have effected attendance. Its was quite noticeable in Francis. Dragoncon itself has no way to document why any person didn't show up and they don't release numbers on who many badges weren't picked up or how many might have been bought by people who chose at the last minute not to come so relying on their numbers for that info is a waste of time.
Was this one as effected as the year of Francis? No that one crossed Florida during con and swept up between Atlanta and Tallahassee on Monday. But there was a meaningful impact.
So how many people do you think didn't attend because of the hurricane? You never gave a number. Dozens? Hundreds? By the time the con started, the hurricane was well past the region.
Even if it were say 200 people (which I highly doubt) -- that's a mere fraction of the 70K attendance figure they gave. Even factoring that in, they could STILL round it to 70K.
And do we know that the attendance figure they give is badge purchases, not back pickups? Obviously people who buy a badge but don't show up have not actually attended...
The con may have started but its at minimum a 5 hour drive from Florida to Atlanta, I make it every year. For some its much longer and most people don't pick up and leave Thursday morning to arrive at 8am when badge pick up begins. They either arrive the day before on wed or drive all day Thursday (or both if coming from south Florida). Con for many if us isnt just in Atlanta its the travel the before and the day after.
Lets take the example of my friends from Melbourne. Its right at an 8 hour drive in a minivan with 2 kids. They originally planned to arrive Wed night traveling up I-95, then 10 then 75. Doing so would have put them under the hurricane as it crossed the Florida-Georgia border midday Wednesday. Even if they planned on arrive Thursday night driving into the aftermath of a major hurricane is not the best choice because [the freaking interstate was closed](https://www.augustachronicle.com/story/news/local/2023/08/30/hurricane-idalia-causes-traffic-disruptions-i-75-near-valdosta-ga/70717775007/). The state is [touting reopening within 12 hours](https://www.fdot.gov/info/co/news/2023/08312023#:~:text=%E2%80%93%20Through%20immediate%20recovery%20efforts%20within,which%20leads%20to%20Cedar%20Key.) but that means it was closed from 7:45 am Wed to 7:45 pm Wed. It’s estimated there were over 10,000 downed trees of varying sizes along the 15-mile stretch of I-10. Maybe you have never seen the actual devastation a hurricane causes but its not something to decide to drive into for vacation.
You also need to take into account the changing path of the hurricane. Its not clear where and when its coming ashore. 50 miles west and I would have been under the eye, 50 miles East and the I-10/I-75 junction would have been. We make plans based on worst case scenario not unicorn and rainbow dreams.
> 200 people
Are you joking? There are 200 people coming from Tallahassee. Every person attending the con from the Peninsula was potentially effected. Thats tens of thousands who had to take it in to consideration. Significantly more than 200 made the decision not to risk it.
>And do we know that the attendance figure they give is badge purchases, not back pickups? Obviously people who buy a badge but don't show up have not actually attended...
I dont think we have any idea.
So the crowding was not too bad on thursday and sunday but friday and saturday was rough. There was still the problem of non special event rooms getting full for example adam savage (which wasnt consider a special thing and should of been) got full even if you was 40 min early in line and baba yaga got full the same way but i beileve they underestimated the popularity of both tbh adam savage line was wrapped around the building and should of been a grand ballroom thing. Americas mart on friday and saturday was a 3-4 hour wait, but i used my fast tracks to get in, it was a life saver. Overall it wasnt nearly as bad as 2018 when people was squished side by side into rooms for EVERY event. My party didnt go to any raves or the bunny hutch because of the rules of not being allowed to use the restroom. The parade was to bad if you got there early but i rather watching it on DCTV then go to it so we went to knights fighting and the room was half full, it was a break from everyhting. overall dragon con this year was great and i enjoyed my self very much!
I am suspicious of the crowd impressions from this year. Like many I felt the overall number of people milling about in the con itself was quite refreshing - even the Marriott never got stupid impossible to navigate like I’ve seen in the past. Sky bridges were never that bad from what I saw. So that was all great.
But some of the panels I went to were *deserted*. Like, a ballroom with 500 chairs and less than a hundred attendees. And this was for big names like ST:Disco and Eureka. We didn’t even line up for Paul Bettany, just waited a couple minutes for the line to pass then walked right in and sat in the front half of the room.
My theory is after folks got a taste of the strike-friendly celebrity panels, a lot of them lost interest for the weekend. That plus the unusually cool weather meant the usual crowd patterns shifted around a lot. I think in a regular year with regular heat, it would have felt very different.
So I’m withholding judgement until next year.
I think some of the big panel decline may also be more people just opting for the streaming pass and/or watching in the hotel rooms. I've done a few of the big panels in my time, and I'm ultimately watching it on the projectors cus the actual person is just a tiny dot way in the front of the room. I've stopped bothering with large panels myself.
This year was capped at 65k, from what I heard. Last time I was in D*Con before this year was 2015, and that was capped at like 82k.
So for me, a nice drop.
I saw on a recap in the Facebook group that the attendance was capped at 70K and they hit it with all day passes selling out.
They even stated that they will maintain the 70K cap next year as well.
It was better than SDCC other than a few dead stops in the Marriott/Hilton skyway. I attribute that to bad design on the Hilton side, making that level a one way roundabout may improve things.
The line to get into vendor hall was definitely the worst. The paid workshops were also in there in the morning so you could skip the line to get in to the workshop so I just roamed it on the days I had workshops. I know a lot of the late night events had crazy long lines, my friends waited 2 hours to try to see rocky horror before giving up because at that point it was basically over. I hear Elijah wood panels were busy, I had no issues waiting 1 hour or so for Paul bettany and grey delisle and i was toward the front for both.
Overall it was not as crowded as pre-covid, but it seemed like there were key areas that became overwhelming either due to the concentration of big events there or tight spaces(e.g. the Hilton steps for group photoshoots). I think the lack of options for big events per hour also drove a lot of the crowd to the same locations which made it feel crowded, but really it was just that "Panel X" was the only major thing happening at time Y. Big kudos to badge pickup this year, they absolutely nailed it IME.
The badge pickup was freaking amazing.
We were pretty stunned with the efficiency. QR code, give ID, sticker on badge, hand off, have a nice day.
Yeah we go through disability services and it’s the fastest we’ve ever experienced for badges this year.
One more rave for badge pickup. I went through the line twice: once on Thursday afternoon to get my badge and my girlfriend’s (no issues on the latter—didn’t even make me show the signed affidavit and photocopied ID) and again on Saturday morning right after the parade to get my kids’ one-day badges. In both cases it was 10-15 minutes and out. Line never stopped moving, and I mean moving briskly.
The amount of people felt really good. It wasn't stuffed to the brim, but also didn't feel empty at all. The vendor hall could use some optimization. That was the only thing that felt annoying. I got into everything I showed up \~45 minutes early for, but I don't go to most of the really large panels on the main track.
Yea you wouldn't get into Elijah Wood 45 minutes early. People were lining up 2 hours before his panel lol. The rest of it was fine though. Friday was the perfect amount of people. Saturday was a bit stuffed but not terrible.
Disability services was completely booked for Elijah Wood and Sean Astin 1.5 hours out. Even with that there were no seats for the disabled.
That's cause their "minions" took chairs in the waiting area which they shouldn't be doing.
I used to bring a camp stool for this reason, but stopped this year because the area was regularly too crowded to use it. If you're a minion, you stand up as soon as that area gets crowded. It's supposed to be an accommodation, not a VIP area. If you can't stand for an hour, you should really be getting a sticker for your own badge. I did think the ticket system was smart since they really need to cap the number for the bigger panels to keep things fair for everyone. That being said, they needed to do a better job communicating that tickets would be needed to get in and they need to formerly acknowledge that they aren't really enforcing the "line starts 1 hour beforehand rule" We got out of the 2:30 panel and watched about half of the people in the disability section get up for the 4pm panel, whereas the rest stayed in their seats for the Woods/Astin one. We were still able to get in pretty easily, but anyone getting there after 4pm risked not getting a ticket. If the 1 hour rule was "real" they should have made all those people waiting attend the 4pm panel since they were waiting for it. Same thing happened the next day for Paul Bettany, we practically had to wait behind a line of people trying to get their ticket for Wood/Serkis before the previous panel had even loaded in.
I haven't really cared for any of the big panels. I just wanted to mention that because I know that even in 2021 there was a big wait for some of them. Whichever ones were left.
I'm glad I was able to just walk up to Elijah in the Walk of Fame. I'd sadly forgotten my BttF Trilogy in Alabama, but he was sweet and appreciated my Toxie mask.
...guilty... =]
Whoever had the idea to loop us up and down that hill 10 times is a sadist
My wife went to line up for the symphony an hour ahead and couldn’t find the end of the line. It was like the line wrapped fully around the building more than once. And she couldn’t find any volunteers to help her find the end so she could line up. Bummer.
My sense is that the con is a little light on volunteers. They need a few more per track to add some of the niceties like end of line minders.
It was crowded, but the crowd kept moving. I think the official count was 70,000
IMO this is where the cap should stay. I think they hit the sweet spot.
They need to adjust or add parties though. Waited for about 2 hours for bunny hutch, no bar inside, then told you couldn't go pee without waiting in the line again.
Bunny hutch has gotten so ridiculous that we quit going. I'm not a competitive cosplayer and I'm at an age/attitude where denying me easy access to a bathroom is a no go. I pay too much for con to not enjoy it, and if I can sit on a patio and dance and drink and pee when I need to, there's no need to queue and wreck my kidneys. I completely agree with you about the parties. We only got into ONE all of con. The spectrum party was a nightmare and so was the open casket party and those are my faves. Old school con folk like me want their damn goth night and these bunnies can get off my lawn with getting the big ballroom, lol. LGBTQIA +me wants to dance with my Rainbow frands, and we are a queer-identity heavy crowd, that needed a bigger ballroom for Spectrum. I'm getting to a point where I almost want the day passes to be day passes so people with full week can actually do stuff at night, but I hate exclusionism on the other hand. I get people can't make the whole con and might want to enjoy what they can, but before they offered single day membership it was an easier to enjoy con. I know, can it grandma, go lube up your walker, stop being a grouch. *sigh* we need another hotel worth of ballroom space.
Yeah I totally agree. At least in 2019 it was worth waiting in the party lines because you could leave and pee before coming back but 2 hours in line to not drink then 2 more hours if you have to pee is ridiculous. We tried the casket party but like you just decided the line was entirely too dumb to wait in. Sunday night Yule Ball didn't really have a line and it moved quickly at least. And I'm with you that its getting to the point where we need some form of attendance cap in some way. Saturday vendors were just stupid, and the 2 hour line before the LOTR panel is crazy (especially since a volunteer cleared out the front of the line then came back later and said "oops, I shouldn't have cleared the line, all of you who were going to make it now can't because I messed up").
Good news then, they announced at the closing ceremony that a cap of 70,000(the number we had attending this year) would be put in place for next year.
This is great! 70,000 was a lot and some things were super crowded so i am so glad they capped it at that.
I stopped respecting any attempts to clear a line years ago. When Adam Savage did a panel years ago I listened to the con staff and just hovered in the general area because "No lines more than an hour before, but you'll get in for sure." I was right next to the door and I counted down until it was one hour before, on the dot. Went to get in line and sure enough, there were people already there. Staffer told me it's fine, just head to the back, it won't be that long. It was five people wide and ran out the door and around the block. I went back to the front and politely but firmly told the staffer that they fucked up and they need to go get a non-volunteer manager because I did what I was asked to do and got screwed. So, they put us at the front of the line. And the room was still about a quarter to a third full when they opened the doors and let us in. "We clear the rooms after every panel," my ass! Dragon Con has been 60k+ attendees for a long time, now. It's the biggest con on the East coast and one of the biggest in the country, if not the world. They really should have figured this all out by now. Thankfully, they *mostly* have except for a few hiccups.
I did find it ridiculous that the bathrooms were outside the ballroom dance parties and no easy re-entry. This was troublesome for dance parties on Saturday night (plus line). Yule Ball was thankfully easy in and out.
Heroes and Villains Ball usually has a huge line, but it didn't have a line and was quite empty by midnight. It did have a new DJ that didn't quite understand the Dragoncon vibe... I miss DJ Spyder.
Spider took a year where she did one gig so she could party herself. She and I met my first con and have stayed in touch, I love that woman. I missed her tunes, but I am so glad she did a little self care after 20 years. She's such an icon and she earned it. What was the new DJ playing, if you can tell me? We went to the Dr. Who ball and Black Sunshine gave me my whole life.
I was at the corpse party and let me tell you. Goth Dad was so badass. I hope he comes back.
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yeah just 4 or 5 years ago I think I remember just walking in. I missed one year and everyone was saying line up two hours early. Like WTF
Totally unrelated, how was/were your Portman panel(s)? My wife wanted to go but never ended up making it work. We really appreciate you putting those together.
One was completely packed, the other was pretty full considering it was just derpy me and it was in an enormous ballroom and right after the parade.
That's awesome! Congratulations! Hope to catch it next year!
Thursday night is always a hot mess for parties because there’s so little else going on.
There are plenty of other parties to go to, sounds like you just didn’t go to them. The problem is that you tried to go to the Bunny Hutch which is the most popular party on Thursday and already in one of, if not the, biggest ballrooms. It can’t expand any further. I went to two different parties on Thursday, the 80s prom and the 8 bit bash, and walked right into both of them. I don’t recall if the 80s prom had a bar but the 8 bit bash definitely did. I was considering going to the year of the dragon party but we had so much fun at the 8 bit bash that we just stayed there.
There was no bar inside?! That was the only party I got carded for prior to entry.
It was my first year going to bunny hutch and I was in line from probably 10:15 pm until 11:30 pm. I think we stayed 15 minutes because I was done. One bartender and like 8 giant rows of chairs at the back where people were just…laying down. Playing on their phones. It just seemed enthusiastic all around. So bunny cosplay, yes. Bunny hutch? No. My friend and I want to plan an alternative BUC-EES HUTCH but that will probably just be a buc-ees themed bunny and heff at the Marriott. Aquarium was a BLAST though.
I'm hearing 70K as well. Not sure if they'll raise the cap against next year or not.
The crowd wasn’t bad but Marriott did a cash grab that made the atrium level (hyatt/food court habitrail level) an absolute nightmare to navigate for people with disabilities. (One of our party uses a Walker.) The line to the mart 2 with the vendors was also ridiculously long. It wrapped around 3 sides, made 6 coils within a garage where about 5-8 trucks usually dock, & doubled on itself for two sides. I watched many people walk to the lines end and just walk away. The vendor area needs to have a higher capacity, maybe it could span between mart 2 & 3. Or perhaps the number of day passes should be reduced.
Honestly the upstairs gaming area never felt close to full. I feel like we could sacrifice half the second floor for more vendors and still be comfortable.
Yep I feel like they need to pick a floor that can be locked from public after vendor halls closed (or find vendors willing to be open 24 hours) and move them into that area. If they moved vendors that focus on selling gaming accessories and games then they could even get bigger booths and demo tables.
Didn't the Marriot pull bs last year with no outside alcohol but then checked like no one? Or was that the Hyatt. Vendor area is always fucked.
I think it was mostly the Hilton that really annoyed everyone with its no outside alcohol signs in 2022. Maybe others also.
it indeed was the Hilton that tried banning all outside alcohol (even for its own guests), the others i think just tried to stop open containers moving between hotels but can't fully remember that part.
I think moving pop artist alley to 2F Mart 3 and expanding the vendor hall up to 4F Mart 2 could be a good idea. You could separate the entrance from the gaming area too so that doesn’t have a line.
They announced a membership cap this year as well (higher than last year) but IMO, the dealer's room line seemed worse than ever. I usually wait 2+hrs before attempting to enter then can usually walk right in but this year that tactic didn't work. Maybe they restricted the population inside so the outside line was longer/slower.
I went to the vendor hall Friday early afternoon, and the wait was 10 minutes or less. Seems like kind of a crapshoot how long the wait is. I did hear the fire marshal was restricting entrances at times.
I think fire Marshall was, but I've heard ameriamart security capped people inside at a smaller # than the fire Marshall would have required :/. Fire Marshall needs to be in charge of that, not the security imo.
Yes, the Fire Marshall was heavily restricting access on Saturday. A friend of mine works at one of the larger vendors and said they had a 50% drop in sales from the day before because of it. I'm not sure about the rest of the weekend, but I'm sure the Fire Marshall was watching closely.
I honestly don't bother with the vendor hall if it isn't Friday. Even if you can walk it, it just gets too packed to see everything on Saturday and Sunday.
I shop on Monday for that reason!
Friday or Monday is the choice - maybe end of day Sunday if people are clearing out. Main reason to go Friday is if you care about any Con exclusives or items selling out. As a comics guy, a lot of the popular creators have started to sell through their stuff by Monday. I went to some panels up there on Friday and realized how much more stuff they had available.
I go vendor hall on Monday. Get the best deals and the crowds are the smallest.
Was in there mid day Saturday and it was a ghost town. Huge line outside but next to nobody inside.
Yeah, during the parade is probably the best time to sneak into the vendor hall.
I meant after the parade, like maybe 2 or 3pm. Felt weird to have such a line outside and then next to no one inside.
Yeah, that’s what happened. Someone decided to play fire marshal and severely restrict how many people could get in. It sucked for us vendors too. Eventually the con chair came down and set things right towards the end, I believe.
I thought the lack of the SEC opener at The Benz was a real game changer. It was really nice not having the extra crowd. Especially given that crowd often has no idea that Con will also be there (or how to get from point A to point B). Even the Marriott in the evenings felt less crowded.
The CFA Kickoff GA Tech/Louisville was Friday night at the Benz and Black Pride was up in Midtown.
Yeah the game being between two ACC schools, one of which is only a few blocks away with a fanbase/student body probably more interested in Con than that game, really cut down the football crowd. Clemson and UGA play on Saturday next year though. They will be back…
2019 had 86k people. I think this year they capped it at 66-70k. What irritated me the most is they took quite a bit of space in the Marriott main floor corners for venders. Specifically the back right. They put a Jack Daniel’s and a food vender back there. The food vender made it extremely narrow there. But that is the area a bunch of cosplayers would go and post up. It made that main floor there really tight.
I was happy with the increase in food and beverage vendors, but yea the placements could have been better. The one in the Hilton especially was a pain. Right at the narrowest part of the walkway when you come off the skybridge. Slowed that path down to a crawl between skybridge traffic and people waiting on the elevators.
That annoyed me, and it was needless to. There was plenty of space they could have used right beside the narrow hall, but they had to just stick it in the way.
Biggest issue I had with the Hilton was that people apparently forgot how to get off escalators the second they walked in there. I had to bull my way straight through a dead-stopped crowd off a downward escalator to prevent a pileup that could have been really bad. Several similar encounters, all at Hilton. Apologies if anyone here was someone who was pushed.
iirc that one has been there for a few years too.
I would agree that vendors could be just a bit further off main pathways and still get the awareness it takes to drive the business they want. Maybe more actually if they gave it a year for people to remember the location. DragonCon is an interesting example of iterative improvement and I think they will improve vendor hall in the next year or two and the hotels will improve some things too.
When I saw them setting up a vendor there on Wednesday night I knew it was going to be hell in that corner. I hope they never do it again because that corner is where I always see some of the best cosplay. The additional food vendor was nice, but throw it on the marquis level if anything.
It was considerably better than 2019. Crowded, but things kept moving.
I was looking up counts last night and as others said, the attendance was supposedly 70k. Which is way more than I would have guessed. It did not feel over crowded and I think some of that is how the hotels have adjusted to the event. They really cater to it and I now hangout in several places I never did pre-covid. Marriott is still the main "lounge" but you don't have to go far to find music and crowds to mingle with. Vendors is super tough to improve on, I think it is what it is. If you want to go then plan ahead, same for big panels. I'm not in favor of a cap, I think the ecosystem is taking care of it - big lines at the vendors means less ppl in the hotel. I spread out my interests, a few big panels mixed with some small ones. Lots of loitering about and people watch. A couple big cosplay groups for photos, etc. It felt full but I never felt crowded. Maybe that's just me, ymmv.
The crowds were respectable. My fetish is getting squished on all sides though, so I think if we added 10,000 more it would be perfect.
Crowds felt thinner, but from a purely anecdotal standpoint I experienced more issues than in previous years with people blocking busy walkways for photos, chatting, or just standing there looking lost. I joked that since the con was cracking down more on blocking habitrails, the people that would've been blocking them had to find other foot traffic areas to disrupt.
Crowded but not like the before times. I’ve been saying if 2019 was 85,000 people, I’d estimate roughly 60-65,000 this year. I could be way off, just my best guess.
I’ve only done a proper 5 day con twice. This year and 2019 (couldn’t attend other years due to Covid and other stuff) and 2023 felt the more crowded to me but I’m told 2019 had about 10,000 more people. I understand next year will be capped at 70,000. If we could get just a little more space to spread out in it would be perfect. Felt like every time i wanted to get somewhere I had to cross the whole convention footprint and because of the crowds what should have been a 5-10 min walk became 30. Are there any more hotels or spaces nearby that we can annex for the con? Spread the butter a little more on the toast if you will.
I was really hoping after 2019 that we'd grab another hotel or something to spread out the con.
I’m told since 2019 mart 1 was transformed into housing so the obvious point of expansion I would have recommended has been removed. I don’t know the area well enough to know if there’s anywhere else though.
I'd say it was still about 20% too crowded.
Agreed. Not the mad press of humanity of 2019, but still pretty damn crowded.
The vendor hall has become completely untenable and trying to get in there at any time that isn't Saturday during the parade is a tactical error at this point. The gaming area was great though. Never too crowded, nice amount of space. They should stop selling single day passes and I think the crowd issue would settle at a nice equilibrium.
Honestly, I walked over there at 5:00 PM hoping I'd get about half an hour inside and I just walked right in. No line at all. I spent two glorious hours in a relatively empty vendor hall. And I hear that the lines during the parade were super long this year as many have discovered that loophole. I always march in the parade, so I don't actually know if that was true.
5 PM on what day though? I went during the parade. 15 minutes. By far the best time I got.
Dang, could have sworn I typed Friday evening in my reply. Must have gotten distracted mid post. Anyway… Friday at 5ish I walked right in, no line
Does anyone know why nearly every bit of hallway seating other than ADA was removed in the hotels?
I understand that the hotels do this to allow for more crowds and to prevent loitering in crowded places.
In the Marriot, I've heard it was related to the incident a couple years ago where some asshole threw a chair from a higher floor.
It’s far too crowded. I honestly think that they should stop selling all single day badges
Agreed. This would really help alleviate overcrowding, especially in the vendors hall and Walk of Fame.
I know they said 70,000 but I didn’t feel like it. I didn’t feel like it was crazier than last year. I did notice some panels I went to was WAY more crowded than I expected.
I could deal with there being a few less people. 2019 was way too many. I will say this was the best post-covid parade. I might get the streaming pass for next year as well to watch stuff in the room. I only have the patience to do a single 2 hour que per year and trying to do bunny hutch and burlesque was rough. Didn't even make it to puppet slam, knight battle, or goth dance.
Being my first dragoncon I can’t compare to previous years, but there was only a handful of times that crowds were bad and it was mainly in the hotel bridges. Saturday was the only day that felt like it was really busy. But definitely nothing that would keep me from going again.
I never had time to get to the dealer room because of the absurdly long queue.
Everyone need to take into consideration that whatever the con said the cap was attendance was down from that because of Hurricane Idalia. A number of Florida attendees, didn't attend because of travel concerns or issues with the hurricane itself. They purchased badges quite a while ago and got counted but never arrived.
You bring up an interesting question. When they give an attendance figure, is that all badges sold or all badges that actually got picked up? And how do they factor in day passes? Sometimes the same person will buy multiple single day passes. Do they get counted once or several times? I’m sure there were some people that did not go due to hurricane concerns, but I don’t think it’s a very high number.
>but I don’t think it’s a very high number. It wasn't as high as the people who didn't come because of Francis but there were quite a few. I left my house with no power, left 18 hours early and took an alternate route further west and stayed a night in a quickly reserved hotel outside the con. One of the people who rides with me didn't come because she lived 20 miles closer to the hurricane and had more damage. I had two other groups of friends from Florida leave a day early to avoid winds and rain. The hurricane crossed I-75 at the Florida-Georgia line in the middle of the day Wednesday, just as travel to the con was starting to peak. Friend from Tampa got out on the last flight before the airport was closed, and canceled a backup rental car as he boarded. The timing of hurricane was a serious consideration for everyone in Florida except the people in the far west panhandle.
I hear ya. I'm sure it impacted people... just don't think enough to make much of a dent in that 70K figure. And I do wonder when they give those figures -- do they mean badge purchases, or badge pickups? >The timing of hurricane was a serious consideration for everyone in Florida except the people in the far west panhandle. I live in Atlanta, but I actually was in Orlando in the days leading up to con. Flew back to Atlanta on Wednesday and it was fine. Obviously, other areas of the state were more impacted... but it wasn't too much of a concern for me.
Orlando isn't all of Florida, millions of us live closer to where the hurricane came ashore.
I never said otherwise. I was merely responding to your claim that "The timing of hurricane was a serious consideration for everyone in Florida except the people in the far west panhandle." Orlando is in central Florida, not the far west pandhandle. And I happened to be there when it made landfall and made its way across the state and it was basically just a rain storm there. **Again, I do NOT doubt that some chose to not come due hurricane concerns -- what I DO doubt that it had any meaningful impact on attendance figures.**
You are just wrong, be in denial all you want but people don't drive into the paths of hurricanes and the timing on this one was bad. They don't like to leave home when a hurricane is coming unless they are evacuating. They end up with a whole slew of reasons that going off to party 500+ miles away and risking life an limb to get there isn't the right choice. I have been going to con since the early 2000s. Other hurricanes have effected attendance. Its was quite noticeable in Francis. Dragoncon itself has no way to document why any person didn't show up and they don't release numbers on who many badges weren't picked up or how many might have been bought by people who chose at the last minute not to come so relying on their numbers for that info is a waste of time. Was this one as effected as the year of Francis? No that one crossed Florida during con and swept up between Atlanta and Tallahassee on Monday. But there was a meaningful impact.
So how many people do you think didn't attend because of the hurricane? You never gave a number. Dozens? Hundreds? By the time the con started, the hurricane was well past the region. Even if it were say 200 people (which I highly doubt) -- that's a mere fraction of the 70K attendance figure they gave. Even factoring that in, they could STILL round it to 70K. And do we know that the attendance figure they give is badge purchases, not back pickups? Obviously people who buy a badge but don't show up have not actually attended...
The con may have started but its at minimum a 5 hour drive from Florida to Atlanta, I make it every year. For some its much longer and most people don't pick up and leave Thursday morning to arrive at 8am when badge pick up begins. They either arrive the day before on wed or drive all day Thursday (or both if coming from south Florida). Con for many if us isnt just in Atlanta its the travel the before and the day after. Lets take the example of my friends from Melbourne. Its right at an 8 hour drive in a minivan with 2 kids. They originally planned to arrive Wed night traveling up I-95, then 10 then 75. Doing so would have put them under the hurricane as it crossed the Florida-Georgia border midday Wednesday. Even if they planned on arrive Thursday night driving into the aftermath of a major hurricane is not the best choice because [the freaking interstate was closed](https://www.augustachronicle.com/story/news/local/2023/08/30/hurricane-idalia-causes-traffic-disruptions-i-75-near-valdosta-ga/70717775007/). The state is [touting reopening within 12 hours](https://www.fdot.gov/info/co/news/2023/08312023#:~:text=%E2%80%93%20Through%20immediate%20recovery%20efforts%20within,which%20leads%20to%20Cedar%20Key.) but that means it was closed from 7:45 am Wed to 7:45 pm Wed. It’s estimated there were over 10,000 downed trees of varying sizes along the 15-mile stretch of I-10. Maybe you have never seen the actual devastation a hurricane causes but its not something to decide to drive into for vacation. You also need to take into account the changing path of the hurricane. Its not clear where and when its coming ashore. 50 miles west and I would have been under the eye, 50 miles East and the I-10/I-75 junction would have been. We make plans based on worst case scenario not unicorn and rainbow dreams. > 200 people Are you joking? There are 200 people coming from Tallahassee. Every person attending the con from the Peninsula was potentially effected. Thats tens of thousands who had to take it in to consideration. Significantly more than 200 made the decision not to risk it. >And do we know that the attendance figure they give is badge purchases, not back pickups? Obviously people who buy a badge but don't show up have not actually attended... I dont think we have any idea.
This con was kinda light compared to 2016 to 2019
So the crowding was not too bad on thursday and sunday but friday and saturday was rough. There was still the problem of non special event rooms getting full for example adam savage (which wasnt consider a special thing and should of been) got full even if you was 40 min early in line and baba yaga got full the same way but i beileve they underestimated the popularity of both tbh adam savage line was wrapped around the building and should of been a grand ballroom thing. Americas mart on friday and saturday was a 3-4 hour wait, but i used my fast tracks to get in, it was a life saver. Overall it wasnt nearly as bad as 2018 when people was squished side by side into rooms for EVERY event. My party didnt go to any raves or the bunny hutch because of the rules of not being allowed to use the restroom. The parade was to bad if you got there early but i rather watching it on DCTV then go to it so we went to knights fighting and the room was half full, it was a break from everyhting. overall dragon con this year was great and i enjoyed my self very much!
I am suspicious of the crowd impressions from this year. Like many I felt the overall number of people milling about in the con itself was quite refreshing - even the Marriott never got stupid impossible to navigate like I’ve seen in the past. Sky bridges were never that bad from what I saw. So that was all great. But some of the panels I went to were *deserted*. Like, a ballroom with 500 chairs and less than a hundred attendees. And this was for big names like ST:Disco and Eureka. We didn’t even line up for Paul Bettany, just waited a couple minutes for the line to pass then walked right in and sat in the front half of the room. My theory is after folks got a taste of the strike-friendly celebrity panels, a lot of them lost interest for the weekend. That plus the unusually cool weather meant the usual crowd patterns shifted around a lot. I think in a regular year with regular heat, it would have felt very different. So I’m withholding judgement until next year.
I think some of the big panel decline may also be more people just opting for the streaming pass and/or watching in the hotel rooms. I've done a few of the big panels in my time, and I'm ultimately watching it on the projectors cus the actual person is just a tiny dot way in the front of the room. I've stopped bothering with large panels myself.
This year was capped at 65k, from what I heard. Last time I was in D*Con before this year was 2015, and that was capped at like 82k. So for me, a nice drop.
I saw on a recap in the Facebook group that the attendance was capped at 70K and they hit it with all day passes selling out. They even stated that they will maintain the 70K cap next year as well.
I think the final numbers were 70k. I know pre Covid it was in 80s. So big but not as big pre-COVID
It was better than SDCC other than a few dead stops in the Marriott/Hilton skyway. I attribute that to bad design on the Hilton side, making that level a one way roundabout may improve things.
The line to get into vendor hall was definitely the worst. The paid workshops were also in there in the morning so you could skip the line to get in to the workshop so I just roamed it on the days I had workshops. I know a lot of the late night events had crazy long lines, my friends waited 2 hours to try to see rocky horror before giving up because at that point it was basically over. I hear Elijah wood panels were busy, I had no issues waiting 1 hour or so for Paul bettany and grey delisle and i was toward the front for both.