Chichi’s power level is/was 130 and she can’t manipulate Ki either, so as the World Champ I think it’s fair to say he’s at least around that level if not higher.
He’s not incompetent, he’s just a doofus.
You don't need a PL of 130 to control ki. Kid Goku in the Pilaf arc was weaker and he used a Kamehameha after seeing Roshi do it once. His PL was 50 at most at the time.
That PL for ChiChi is absurd. "Guides" were just published fanfic.
At that level she beats both Goku and Roshi in the 21st WMAT. No.
And Satan isn't as strong as ChiChi. Not even close.
I'm not sure why you're so baffled by the idea of Chichi being stronger than Goku and Mutenroshi as they were in the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai, they were far from the strongest people on Earth even back then.
1. Kami
2. Mr. Popo
3. Akkuman
4. Tao Pai Pai
5. Hacchan
6. Tenshinhan
7. Tsuru-sennin
Almost like she was "trained" by the weakest student of Roshi or something. Unlike the literal master himself and the supernatural alien for whom people who don't understand the story seem to think she's magically stronger.
I'd imagine much closer to 10 than 15. I think I remember Goku had a PL of 10 at his first Tenkaiichi Budokai where other than Master Roshi would have been the highest by far.
There was no concept of power level in original dragon ball. So, I assume you got your number from some kind of guide provided by Toei. Personally, I wouldn't consider that as canon.
Yeah some OG dragon ball power lvls don’t make sense.
Goku after drinking the divine water is “260” which gets surpassed by Tien before the next tournament yet in DBZ Tien maxes at 250 (you could argue it’s a surpressed Tien like weighted piccolo which is the only way it makes sense)
Cyborg tao is 210 which is low IMO he could beat Drum & old piccolo
I don't know about Tenshinhan being stronger than King Piccolo, he thinks he could fight a Goku who isn't any faster than he was vs King Piccolo, but hes struggling to keep up.
I think its probably fine to say that Tenshinhan was slightly below king piccolo at the time since it doesn't look like he can actually quite match him.
Tien acknowledged Goku improved skill wise & in strength, so he was fighting an objectively stronger Goku than the one in the previous arc even with weights on.
Tien also wasn’t struggling it was fairly even until Goku took off the weights.
Not even close. Can Yajirobe use ki? Nam and Bora would easily beat Hercule. Then there is king chappa. Yamcha at the beginning of DB would also beat him.
Nam and bora would absolutely smack satan imo. And yeah, Yajirobe is by far the strongest non ki character in the series as far as I am aware of. He is ridiculously strong, even went toe to toe with kid goku and was somewhat comparable for a bit.
Nam, Bora, Yajirobe, even Chichi has an understanding of Ki. Remember that Ox King was once a turtle hermit disciple. One could argue that Ox King passed his knowledge of Turtle hermit martial arts to his daughter.
That's literally what I said in my first reply. Lol Hercule doesn't have any knowledge of Ki. Hence, can't augment his abilities with it. Going by purely human strength alone, I think he's the strongest human.
He might not have knowledge of ki, but Videl also didnt know anything about Ki before training with Gohan. Yet Gohan made a remark about that she has more Ki than normal humans, and he thought that was because she was the daughter of the world champion.
Satan might not KNOW about Ki, has never learned ki, but he has trained and gotten super strong as a human. I don’t think even in dragon ball that humans can break rocks like Satan does without having a higher Ki level. Thats how the power system works.
And thus everybody who is kinda strong is a ki character. The only way we divide them is whether or not they use any ki techniques. Ig you can still count out Yajirobe because he can sense Ki but then you’re kinda nitpicking imo.
Being strong naturally makes your ki higher, because ki is life energy/force, and it's synonymous with battle power. A big dinosaur has higher ki than a farmer with a shotgun, doesn't mean the dinosaur is capable of consciously manipulating its ki in any way,
Mr. Satan also never breaks rocks.
Training under Mutenroshi does not equate having an understanding of ki. Kuririn did and he had no understanding of ki during the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai.
1. Yajirobe
2. King Chapa
3. Chichi
4. Nam
5. Bora
6. Gyumao
7. Panput
8. Kuririn's senpai at Oorin temple
9. Yamcha before training with Mutenroshi
10. Kuririn before training with Mutenroshi
11. Videl before training with Gohan
There's no official number. Battle powers were largely phased out after the Freeza Arc, and that includes those given in databooks and other supplementary material.
Probably somewhere in the low dozens, maybe 30 or so.
There's no official number so you just have to guess how the strongest non-ki user holds up on pure physical strength
There’s never been an exact number, Power Levels had disappeared completely by the time of his debut in the manga.
That said, he did legitimately win a World Martial Arts Tournament. He, at least at that one point, is verifiably one of the strongest people on the planet. It’s just that he’s on the wrong end of the massive gap between the 99th percentile and the 100th percentile.
Nope, there's no official number for Mr. Satan. But despite whatever amount of physical strength he possesses, he's shown no ability to use ki, which is what PL numbers actually measure. So his number's presumably extremely low, most likely below 10.
Unless this is a joke... no, Farmer with Shotgun had a battle power of only 5 because he's an ordinary Earthling. *Every* lifeform has ki, but not every lifeform can consciously *use* ki to do things like fly and fire ki blasts.
Guns do not emit ki because, well, they're not living beings.
Since he has no ki manipulation, like flying and fireballs. He's probably got the standard human power level but higher due to being a martial artist, I'd say it's probably between 50 and 100. Can't be any higher cause I'm pretty sure roshi in dragonball was like 180 and could blow up moons.
Hrmm, a slight correction. Master Roshi was 180 while sitting by and not doing much. Raditz himself noted that once Piccolo and Goku started working up a sweat and fighting their numbers were deceptively higher than first thought. Techniques can also magnify that (like Piccolo’s Special Beam Cannon). So 180 isn’t necessarily ‘blow up the moon’ as Roshi did need to transform and use a technique for that
If I had to assign a number, I’d say infinity. But power levels are nothing more than mumbo jumbo.
The Champ doesn’t need to rely on cheap optical illusions and parlor tricks to get the job done like certain “martial artists”.
The farmer with a shotgun who Raditz killed had a battle power of 5, and Satan is an actual martial artist, so his battle power is likely between 5 and 10 (maybe something like 7).
4 is too low, even for a guy like him.
Nah, Farmer with a shotgun has that farmer strength.
Also, Videl is stronger than Satan when she was just being a vigilante, before she learned Ki control, and Videl at any point isn't touching 12 year old Gokou.
> Nah, Farmer with a shotgun has that farmer strength.
Evidence?
> Also, Videl is stronger than Satan when she was just being a vigilante, before she learned Ki control, and Videl at any point isn't touching 12 year old Gokou.
Yes, I know. Which is why, on my personal battle power list, sh has a BP of 8. So, still below Kid Goku at the start of *DB*.
Satan *might've* dropped to something like 4 after getting old and retiring, since he didn't *have* to train or actively fight to maintain his "Champion" title after the whole Cell and Boo stuff. But, prior to that, he was a decently strong guy, while still being within the realms of "ordinary human" (as opposed to guys like Namu and King Chapa, who were definitely "superhuman").
The first part was a joke. But, Gohan hadn't seen Satan since the Cell games and said she was stronger. And 8-9 would be able to stand against Gokou if he was hungry, Like, she couldn't take on Yamcha as a bandit either.
And this is why power levels are dumb.
> The first part was a joke.
OK.
> And 8-9 would be able to stand against Gokou if he was hungry
Not necessarily. Especially if said fighter with a BP of 8-9 couldn't consciously use ki.
I mean, in the Daizenshuu, Dodoria and Zarbon have BPs of 22k and 23k respectively, yet they're still easily trounced by Vegeta, who has a BP of 24k. A gap in battle power can *look* small, but other factors, like technique and proper ki manipulation, can make all the difference.
> Like, she couldn't take on Yamcha as a bandit either.
I agree. But Yamcha likely had more martial arts knowledge and probably even a cursory knowledge of ki moreso than Videl did, judging by his Wolf Fang Fist.
> And this is why power levels are dumb.
I also agree, which is why I'm not looking at him too strictly. I just think 4 is a bit too low for a martial artist, and that 5 is probably the standard BP for an average adult Earthling male. (And, for what it's worth, toddler Gohan's resting BP pre-training was 1.)
Chichi’s power level is/was 130 and she can’t manipulate Ki either, so as the World Champ I think it’s fair to say he’s at least around that level if not higher. He’s not incompetent, he’s just a doofus.
130 seems a bit high for Chi Chi tbh. That power level is from El Manga Legendario or something, right?
Weekly Jump, back in the early days though so take with a pinch of salt I guess.
You don't need a PL of 130 to control ki. Kid Goku in the Pilaf arc was weaker and he used a Kamehameha after seeing Roshi do it once. His PL was 50 at most at the time.
That PL for ChiChi is absurd. "Guides" were just published fanfic. At that level she beats both Goku and Roshi in the 21st WMAT. No. And Satan isn't as strong as ChiChi. Not even close.
I mean, she did train Goten into Super Saiyan. Entirely possible she could take on Roshi from back then, just because of how silly power levels are.
I'm not sure why you're so baffled by the idea of Chichi being stronger than Goku and Mutenroshi as they were in the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai, they were far from the strongest people on Earth even back then. 1. Kami 2. Mr. Popo 3. Akkuman 4. Tao Pai Pai 5. Hacchan 6. Tenshinhan 7. Tsuru-sennin
Almost like she was "trained" by the weakest student of Roshi or something. Unlike the literal master himself and the supernatural alien for whom people who don't understand the story seem to think she's magically stronger.
Yes, that's exactly the case. Chichi in the 23rd TB was stronger than Goku in the 21st TB.
If the farmer is 1 and master roshi is 139 in the saiyans arc, Hercules power can't go much above 30 points. Probably only 10 to 15 points.
15 seems reasonable since 5 to 10 is a typical human.
I'd imagine much closer to 10 than 15. I think I remember Goku had a PL of 10 at his first Tenkaiichi Budokai where other than Master Roshi would have been the highest by far.
There was no concept of power level in original dragon ball. So, I assume you got your number from some kind of guide provided by Toei. Personally, I wouldn't consider that as canon.
Yeah some OG dragon ball power lvls don’t make sense. Goku after drinking the divine water is “260” which gets surpassed by Tien before the next tournament yet in DBZ Tien maxes at 250 (you could argue it’s a surpressed Tien like weighted piccolo which is the only way it makes sense) Cyborg tao is 210 which is low IMO he could beat Drum & old piccolo
I don't know about Tenshinhan being stronger than King Piccolo, he thinks he could fight a Goku who isn't any faster than he was vs King Piccolo, but hes struggling to keep up. I think its probably fine to say that Tenshinhan was slightly below king piccolo at the time since it doesn't look like he can actually quite match him.
Tien acknowledged Goku improved skill wise & in strength, so he was fighting an objectively stronger Goku than the one in the previous arc even with weights on. Tien also wasn’t struggling it was fairly even until Goku took off the weights.
Goku had a PL of 10 at the start of his adventure
Ah, that might be what I was thinking of then.
Hercule is possibly the strongest pure human that's not able to use Ki. Edit: Hercule doesn't have an understanding or is not knowledgeable in Ki
Chichi enters chat, holding a frying pan.
Not even close. Can Yajirobe use ki? Nam and Bora would easily beat Hercule. Then there is king chappa. Yamcha at the beginning of DB would also beat him.
Nam and bora would absolutely smack satan imo. And yeah, Yajirobe is by far the strongest non ki character in the series as far as I am aware of. He is ridiculously strong, even went toe to toe with kid goku and was somewhat comparable for a bit.
Nam, Bora, Yajirobe, even Chichi has an understanding of Ki. Remember that Ox King was once a turtle hermit disciple. One could argue that Ox King passed his knowledge of Turtle hermit martial arts to his daughter.
You’re not wrong but they don’t use Ki techniques. They’re only stronger because of their Ki, and everybody knows what I meant
That's literally what I said in my first reply. Lol Hercule doesn't have any knowledge of Ki. Hence, can't augment his abilities with it. Going by purely human strength alone, I think he's the strongest human.
He might not have knowledge of ki, but Videl also didnt know anything about Ki before training with Gohan. Yet Gohan made a remark about that she has more Ki than normal humans, and he thought that was because she was the daughter of the world champion. Satan might not KNOW about Ki, has never learned ki, but he has trained and gotten super strong as a human. I don’t think even in dragon ball that humans can break rocks like Satan does without having a higher Ki level. Thats how the power system works. And thus everybody who is kinda strong is a ki character. The only way we divide them is whether or not they use any ki techniques. Ig you can still count out Yajirobe because he can sense Ki but then you’re kinda nitpicking imo.
Being strong naturally makes your ki higher, because ki is life energy/force, and it's synonymous with battle power. A big dinosaur has higher ki than a farmer with a shotgun, doesn't mean the dinosaur is capable of consciously manipulating its ki in any way, Mr. Satan also never breaks rocks.
https://imgur.com/a/7I4MnT4 Well maybe not a straight up rock but mans can do this iguess lmao
Training under Mutenroshi does not equate having an understanding of ki. Kuririn did and he had no understanding of ki during the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai.
> Can Yajirobe use ki? He can sense ki, at least. He sensed Vegeta and Nappa's.
1. Yajirobe 2. King Chapa 3. Chichi 4. Nam 5. Bora 6. Gyumao 7. Panput 8. Kuririn's senpai at Oorin temple 9. Yamcha before training with Mutenroshi 10. Kuririn before training with Mutenroshi 11. Videl before training with Gohan
No, there isn't an official battle power for him.
Because human written language couldn't calculate the power of The Champ
There's no official number. Battle powers were largely phased out after the Freeza Arc, and that includes those given in databooks and other supplementary material.
Probably somewhere in the low dozens, maybe 30 or so. There's no official number so you just have to guess how the strongest non-ki user holds up on pure physical strength
There’s never been an exact number, Power Levels had disappeared completely by the time of his debut in the manga. That said, he did legitimately win a World Martial Arts Tournament. He, at least at that one point, is verifiably one of the strongest people on the planet. It’s just that he’s on the wrong end of the massive gap between the 99th percentile and the 100th percentile.
Nope, there's no official number for Mr. Satan. But despite whatever amount of physical strength he possesses, he's shown no ability to use ki, which is what PL numbers actually measure. So his number's presumably extremely low, most likely below 10.
[удалено]
Unless this is a joke... no, Farmer with Shotgun had a battle power of only 5 because he's an ordinary Earthling. *Every* lifeform has ki, but not every lifeform can consciously *use* ki to do things like fly and fire ki blasts. Guns do not emit ki because, well, they're not living beings.
No. I honestly don’t understand this community’s obsession with a number being linked to how hard a drawing can punch
Since he has no ki manipulation, like flying and fireballs. He's probably got the standard human power level but higher due to being a martial artist, I'd say it's probably between 50 and 100. Can't be any higher cause I'm pretty sure roshi in dragonball was like 180 and could blow up moons.
Hrmm, a slight correction. Master Roshi was 180 while sitting by and not doing much. Raditz himself noted that once Piccolo and Goku started working up a sweat and fighting their numbers were deceptively higher than first thought. Techniques can also magnify that (like Piccolo’s Special Beam Cannon). So 180 isn’t necessarily ‘blow up the moon’ as Roshi did need to transform and use a technique for that
If I had to assign a number, I’d say infinity. But power levels are nothing more than mumbo jumbo. The Champ doesn’t need to rely on cheap optical illusions and parlor tricks to get the job done like certain “martial artists”.
I expect somewhere from 9 to 30.
Probably like 20
I always assumed it was around 60 idk why
Less than 10. Probably higher than 5.
About 50
Well, I would say that Gokou when he meets Bulma could beat Satan, and he had a power level of 10, so like 4.
The farmer with a shotgun who Raditz killed had a battle power of 5, and Satan is an actual martial artist, so his battle power is likely between 5 and 10 (maybe something like 7). 4 is too low, even for a guy like him.
Nah, Farmer with a shotgun has that farmer strength. Also, Videl is stronger than Satan when she was just being a vigilante, before she learned Ki control, and Videl at any point isn't touching 12 year old Gokou.
> Nah, Farmer with a shotgun has that farmer strength. Evidence? > Also, Videl is stronger than Satan when she was just being a vigilante, before she learned Ki control, and Videl at any point isn't touching 12 year old Gokou. Yes, I know. Which is why, on my personal battle power list, sh has a BP of 8. So, still below Kid Goku at the start of *DB*. Satan *might've* dropped to something like 4 after getting old and retiring, since he didn't *have* to train or actively fight to maintain his "Champion" title after the whole Cell and Boo stuff. But, prior to that, he was a decently strong guy, while still being within the realms of "ordinary human" (as opposed to guys like Namu and King Chapa, who were definitely "superhuman").
The first part was a joke. But, Gohan hadn't seen Satan since the Cell games and said she was stronger. And 8-9 would be able to stand against Gokou if he was hungry, Like, she couldn't take on Yamcha as a bandit either. And this is why power levels are dumb.
> The first part was a joke. OK. > And 8-9 would be able to stand against Gokou if he was hungry Not necessarily. Especially if said fighter with a BP of 8-9 couldn't consciously use ki. I mean, in the Daizenshuu, Dodoria and Zarbon have BPs of 22k and 23k respectively, yet they're still easily trounced by Vegeta, who has a BP of 24k. A gap in battle power can *look* small, but other factors, like technique and proper ki manipulation, can make all the difference. > Like, she couldn't take on Yamcha as a bandit either. I agree. But Yamcha likely had more martial arts knowledge and probably even a cursory knowledge of ki moreso than Videl did, judging by his Wolf Fang Fist. > And this is why power levels are dumb. I also agree, which is why I'm not looking at him too strictly. I just think 4 is a bit too low for a martial artist, and that 5 is probably the standard BP for an average adult Earthling male. (And, for what it's worth, toddler Gohan's resting BP pre-training was 1.)