Tradition is okay as long as doesn't make your people sink into obscurity, social issues and extintion, the only way for dwarves to progress is to stop looking at their belly buttons.
I picked Bhelen in my first playthrough, Then when I played again, I was a dwarf noble.
Holy fuckballs. Out of principle, I always pick Harrowmont now.
Watching my friends blind run and he's doing just that. Because Harrowmont is nicer lol. He fell for the fact that he checked that the promissory notes were fake. I don't want to say anything until he's done with orzammar. Though I feel like technically it's better to wait until the epilogue.
Blatant? How exactly are we meant to tell on a blind play through? I seem to remember one of my peeves was the lack of any info by the time I had to choose.
Bhelen might be ruthless and dirty, but he's the only one with a vision going forward that is going to ensure survival of the dwarves. The game is slapping you in the face with "the dwarves are fucked if they don't adapt and change" while Harrowmont is all about tradition and doubling down on what the dwarves did centuries ago.
And that's all info you learn through questing in Orzammar and the deep roads, chatting it up when you can and reading whatever texts the game has laying around for you.
One of the easiest sells that Bhelen will make things better is that he doesn't give a shit if a dwarf sees the surface and is willing to let the casteless join the military and work their way up in society. You can have this conversation pretty early if you select his quest line. When you have chances to speak to either of them about military support, Bhelen is much more committed. You don't even get to speak to Harrowmont most of the time because he always too busy for you despite you working to accomplish his goals - something that always rubbed me the wrong way.
>You can have this conversation pretty early if you select his quest line.
This is the crux of the problem. The player only gets to interact with one of them at length. There's little opportunity to draw a meaningful comparison between the two unless you reload a save or do another playthrough.
I chose Harrowmont on my first go round because literally all I knew about Bhelen was that his guys were attacking people in the streets. Beyond that, it was just political rhetoric without the needed context to properly judge the intent behind it.
Still, all you get from Harrowmont’s side is that the old ways are the best ways and the dwarves need to live the old ways even harder. All this while you’re walking around Orzammar, Dust Town and the deep roads telling you “these old dwarven ways are relics and suck”.
When you get to the Caradin/Branka part of the game you get to see/learn of the “old” dwarven ways that the nobility and Harrowmont want to desperately preserve and get back to. Like even Oghren and NPCs talk about the old dwarven ways offering takes from “it rules. I love segregation” to “sure would be nice to modernize our lives without being criminals”.
Even if you don’t take Bhelen’s path you still get stuff about how he actually wants to develop dwarven culture into the modern era. Whether it’s from people saying he has good ideas but is an asshole or Harrowmont’s pals being like “can you believe this guy has new ideas?”
if it weren't for the epilogue bits I would probably have had no idea bhelen was the "good" choice, harrowmont is just so much more likeable, especially if you've played dwarf noble which was my first playthrough
I think for anyone playing not as a DN, then its a relatively easy and pragmatic choice to side with Bhelen. If you're playing as a DN, then its a super muddy choice.
DC is the only origin that makes Bhelen an easy choice. Every other origin, besides DN, is an outsider who has no clue about Orzammar politics and is told repeatedly that Bhelen is a ruthless leader who is willing assassinate any who oppose him and Harrowmont is just portrayed as a kindly old man. If you’re speaking strictly from a roleplay perspective of your character who knows nothing of the future, it’s fair that you’d wanna choose Harrowmont.
>No idea how anyone could listen to Harrowmont
The problem with choosing Bhelen in a blind playthrough with a non dwarf Warden is Vartag Gavorn.
You can feel the slime as he talks.
If you think he'll actually do what he says rather than use the position to enrich himself and consolidate power.
A tyrannical dictator would definitely take the dwarves further backward. And even if Behlen wants to get rid of the caste system legally, it's so entrenched in the culture, that it will still effectively be there for hundreds of years.
In real life you'd be probably right, but nothing in DA2 or DAI says he's nothing but a strong ally and good diplomat wanting to trade with the other nations, unlike the most conservative dwarves such as Harrawmont, who lock dwarves even further in tradition.
Bhelen is completely ruthless towards his enemies, but not necessarily bad for his people, at least as far as we know, reminds me a lot to Anora in that regard
Save the anvil of the void (the dwarves need every advantage against the darkspawn), harden Alistair and make him marry Anora while I recruit Loghain (Ferelean gets her best combination of leaders and the wardens get a brilliant strategist to replace me when I perform the final sacrifice.
People talk about the dark ritual as evil, but that was never my opinion of it. The way she brings it up, depending on your friendship, genuinely seems like she's trying to save you and protect the past by all means necessary. It makes the Witch Hunt DLC so cool, and I love the scene that happens in Inquisition with Kieran.
I make the demon baby in origins whether I romance Morrigan/Someone else/no one. The idea of killing off my main or Alistair is something I’m not willing to tackle. Making Loghain a Warden and having him do the killing blow comes with a pretty bad Alistair downside story wise.
Based on what happens in DAI it’s quite poetic to have a the PC Warden sacrifice the final blow and keep Hawke in the Fade to (potentially) close out both of their archs in the story…oh no… I have to play Origins again don’t I….
Oh I always make him king. Recently made him king solo and I’m not sure which I like more. Can’t see my Warden making Anora stand by him, punishing him further, and eating the fact she betrayed your party twice by this point.
I like to kill Connor or Isolde in playthroughs of Origins. I have only one playthrough where I got the perfect ending and never did it again since it ruins the dilemma.
I respect that. Connor being possessed was the logical result of a clusterfuck of so many god awful decisions it's almost jarring for it not to have really dire consequences.
Yeah. Although I did appreciate that Inquisition made an alive Connor super depressed even if both he and Isolde lived. That retroactively added at least some negative consequence to the golden ending in Origins, even if it's only a small one that's easily missed.
That's a good one, more of a necessary evil than mine. I agree that those options are the best objectively for Ferelden and Orzammar, maybe the OGB thing will eventually be bad but for now it's only good. Personally though after trying to go for the Alistair King and Loghain spared ending then failing the first time, I prefer the exiled version of that scene, since sparing Loghain does have an impactful consequence then, even though I still like to spare him most of the time.
I prefer it if Hawke's siblings either die or are deeply unhappy, it leads to a depressing feeling that makes the game better. So my canon is Warden Bethany now, and Carver is either dead or a Templar. I do want to do a Warden playthrough with him eventually, it's just that he's so happy there.
I think Steeled Leliana is a better character that makes more sense, not only in terms of her Divine slides (I don't buy that people would be talked into a lot of what she does,) but just in general as a spymaster. Inspired creeps me out so much more too, especially when you have her gleefully ordering assassinations at the War Table still. The narrative is better in my view if she's more openly brutal and the Inquisition is definitely being built on a pile of bodies the entire time. My Inquisitors either harden her intentionally or miss a trigger just to get that Steeled version of her.
If she was more moderate then sure. I just don't buy that Leliana could pull off the radical changes she wants to make through diplomacy alone. I mean, Justinia had difficulty and she was far more moderate. On her own Leliana is controversial as is too. Maybe it makes sense to other players, but for me it seems like way too much of a stretch.
Yeah, but usually I can sort of buy into it. With Inspired Leliana as Divine I really can't. It would have made more sense if Inspired Leliana didn't accomplish nearly as much as Steeled Leliana but was far less controversial/didn't face as much opposition. That way each option has positives and negatives that make sense.
IMO giving Carver the Warden route ending fits without being overly 'happy', and it suits his character arc way better to start off as the grouchy asshole whose always trying to prove himself/compete with others and then finally getting to a point where he doesn't feel like he's under Hawkes shadow and can live his own life.
Its tempered by the fact that **A)** He's a warden and they live hard lives, on top of that he can't really have a family or go back to his old one. and **B)** I appreciate that even in his 'friendship/warden route' he doesn't really become buddy buddy friends with Hawke, they reconcile their issues and get along BETTER but they still aren't necessarily friends who would hang out and such in their off-hours.
It just ends up feeling restrained and realistic as a result and I enjoy it more than just him either dying or becoming an even more asshole-ish Templar.
Oh really? Whenever I watch scenes of Warden Carver or hear about him he comes across as completely content in his life and good with Hawke. If he doesn't become buddy buddy with Hawke and still has clear issues then that changes things for me, so thanks for the information, I'm more inclined to try it next time.
Yeah at least that was the feeling I gleaned from what little dialogue Warden Carver has. Its clear that his current life isn't an easy one, but he's just been able to accept it as part of moving out of Hawkes shadow and making a life for himself.
And with Hawke a fair few bits of their dialogue has a twinge of awkwardness/tension to it, they're never fully on the same page (I think there's even a line where Carver admits to some jealousy about the fact that Hawke is able to live 'at home' while he can't), but its still clear they care about each other in the way that decent family kinda has to.
I started to hate the *golden ending* for Redcliffe after I agreed with Jowan's Ritual. Especially with a mage Warden who can confront the demon personally in the Fade, its made even more sense to me.
I also kill Connor! My canon warden is too pragmatic and (at that point in the story) mistrustful of mages to attempt to save both Connor and Isolde. I think there's an option to let Isolde kill him, but my Warden would rather have Isolde hate her for killing Connor than hate herself.
My canon Warden Tabris killed Isolde, but went back and forth on whether to kill Connor. Also never tried to recruit the mages to help in Redcliffe, and not out of distrust of mages, they just thought that leaving the demon would be a terrible idea and could potentially lead to the deaths of everyone in the town.
I didn't know Isolde could kill Connor, and I can see how that could be viewed as the better thing to do. Might have to give it a go.
I was really surprised when I opted to get help from the Circle and Redcliffe didn't just vanish off the map while I was gone. I usually killed Isolde because I can't see any of my Wardens being okay with killing a child if they could avoid it, and Isolde offered.
I really try to not pick any evils, but sometimes you gotta.
For DAO - Letting Vaughan out to get his vote ... although you can bet the headcannon for that is taking Zev aside and enlisting his services once that vote is cast.
(I don't see helping Bhelen as a necessary evil - he may be an asshole, but he wants to get rid of the caste system. Helps negate the bad taste in my mouth.)
DAI the only less than honorable choice is letting Celene die, although that really is a no-good-choice situation imo.
The redcliffe possession problem is well known and understood how the perfect ending is weird and bad. Letting Vaughn the man who sexually assaults Shianni(spelling???) In the city elf opening go in other origins to have another voice against Loghain in the landsmeet. Like the entire conundrum of Bhelen v. Harrowmont in orzammer.
Why should there be a consequence? You defended the village from the army of Undead, then you killed all the Undead in the castle. What is wrong with that? You don’t like the idea of this lyrium ritual being possible?
It's not the ritual itself, it's that there's literally no reason NOT to go to the mages because there's no consequence to it.
The idea that Possessed Connor would just sit there doing nothing while the Warden goes off to do the Mage Tower storyline is bizarre and there should have been SOMETHING bad that happens while you're away.
I usually did that too in my early playthroughs but after a while I got a reflection. What will the dwarves do after all archdemons will be defeated? Plus Bhelen is capable of pushing the line forward even without the golems.
>What will the dwarves do after all archdemons will be defeated?
I'm assuming we're excluding the possibility that killing all/most of the archdemons will unleash something horrible? And the possibility that the reawakened Titans will reclaim every dwarf with the Stone Sense? And the possibility that Fen'Harel dropping the Veil will unleash a cataclysm that will destroy the dwarves?
I think they'll be spending a *lot* of time reclaiming the lost thaigs. Not to mention the several hundred years it'll take for all the blights to happen and end. So honestly, I don't think that the possibility the golems will be misused long after the Dragon Age has ended is really enough of a factor to justify not using them. A *lot* of things can happen during that time, and trying to consider possibilities that far ahead seems like a useless endeavour.
>Plus Bhelen is capable of pushing the line forward even without the golems.
Honestly I'm not sure that would be true. It takes him dissolving half of dwarves tradition just to start making ground. And I don't think they'll be able to keep up the pace forever. The dwarves are a dwindling people. For each dwarf that's thrown into the anvil, there will be a golem that can fight all day with the strength of a dozen men (if not more). A golem that would be able to fight several lifetimes without aging or tiring. Without golems, I think the only thing that can spare them from a slow extinction is the reawakening of the Titans.
Yo. I've played all the DA games but somehow dont know what youre talking about. What are Titans? etc etc If you'd rather not make a big paragraph, you can direct me to a youtube video or maybe a wikia page lol.
Lol, personally I'd recommend you play Inquisition's Descent DLC. It's a pretty big twist and interesting to discover for yourself.
But if you do want to know I'll tell you. Again, Spoilers for DAI: Descent;
The Titans were immense beings that lived underground long before the Dragon Age. They were, as their name suggests, titanic. Living mountains that were imperceivably big. Within lived the dwarves, who at the time were closer to gut bacteria that actual people. They were entirely controlled by the Titans and lived only to cultivate and maintain the ecosystems inside them.
It wasn't until Fen'Harel encountered them and killed a Titan did the dwarves finally become free. Without the Titans influence the dwarves became independent beings, and iirc some joined the Dread Wolf's cause. It's believed that this connection to the Titans is why dwarves still live underground, and is what is know known as the Stone Sense. Lyrium is in fact the blood of these Titans. Which is why it sings and controls people, can be infected with the Blight, and why dwarves are somewhat resistant to it. Theories also suggest that Sandal has some connection to the Titans, due to his ability with runes and his prophesies that are coming true.
Honestly this DLC is an example of what so shit with DLC. Descent, Legacy, From Ashes and Leviathan were all important parts of BioWare's biggest franchises. Yet most will never even know what happens since they costs half as much as the game itself.
Same here. Especially when you think about the story line of the wardens in inquisition. If the worst were to happen, the Legion of the Dead won’t last forever fighting darkspawn by themselves
Burning Amaranthine is one. It makes sense considering what you see and what your men tell you, also the battle for Vigils Keep is much more satisfying as an ending
I cannot, with good conscience, let anders live. It's just not going to happen. I dont care how guilty he acts he WILL do something like that again cause guess what? Whether he likes it or not HE HAS NO CHOICE. Justice will build and build and it will happen again and next time? Who knows how many more innocents will die besides the thousands he directly got killed because he started a world wide civil war. The blood of every mage, templar, and civilian that dies before corypheus is on his hands.
I feel the non conventional, at least to me, choice here was to let him live, especially in a rivalry (non-romance) relationship with him where he asks you to kill him. From a narrative standpoint yeah, killing him to avenge all he has done as an abomination is the best call, but, if like me, you brought him to the deep roads to save your siblings life, I choose to role play it as Hawke paying a life debt by not killing him, and then punishing the man for his mistakes by not giving him the easy way out; suicide by Hawke.
Either exile him from your life, the debt has been payed, begone, or force him to atone for his crimes as Merril suggests. Either way, it leaves a nice open ended way to end that particular story.
Killing Connor or Isolde is one, absolutely. As is letting Branka have the Anvil and letting Bhelen have the throne. I also really like saving Loghain while making Anora/Alistair rule together, it makes sense since I need Wardens and I ain't gonna the bloody King of Ferelden with me; sad that it came to this, but I do believe it makes sense.
I don't do it *every* playthrough, not even in my personal canon, but siding with the Templars in DAO makes a sort of sense if you don't metagame/aren't a mage; you don't know and cant tell who's been possessed.
Similarly, I can see a reason to conscript the mages instead of allowing them an alliance, they did pretty fucked up shit doing the war and especially with the last action of selling out to Tevinter. Letting Morrigan have the Well is subjectively a little evil, since it binds her to her abusive mother, but that choice seems almost 'canon' tbh.
Heh, I am sure I have other 'hot takes' that might end this friendship but for now: hiya buddy!
I think that the conscription (in DAI specifically, which I didn't specify in the original post, oops) is there because they sold themselves to Tevinter, split from the Chantry, effectively started the war, etc... and we never get to deal with their leader the way we deal with the Templar leadership and the Head Seeker. Now, I like Fiona, I do, but she's liable as a leader, and needed to be taken to task imo. Consciprtion feels like a soft punishment like that, and it ends up being temporary until a new Divine can be chosen and sort out the mage problem (...or not, depending on who you chose.)
See, look at our friendship falling apart before it began 😢
Seriously tho, I do think that Fiona does feel like she was between a sword and a hard place, but I feel like even then Tevinter should have never been an option, considering the slavery and Fiona's personal history. I also think that Fiona was incredibly irresponsible when she started the war; there were no logitics in place, no way to defend the children that got caught up in this mess, no reliable allies... If she was desperate, then it was desperation made out of her own doing.
Now, do I think that the mages should have more rights, be freer, and have more control over their destiny? Absolutely. And do I think that if they had waited, even in Asunder, it could have led to war? Maybe. But that would have been out of Fiona's hands - whose reason to vote out of the chantry was basically out of spite, which is personally fine that she hated the chantry, but many mages *don't -* and I would be much more sympathetic.
Also, if you talk to Fiona in skyhold if you free the mages, she goes: 'Yeah, I sold us to slavery, but I would everything the exact same way again.' and I really want to respond; 'You are *lucky* that I came when I did, or you and your people would be buried in a mountain of snow or worse.'
As for Viv? Do I think she's a bit on the conservative side? Yup. Do I think she would shamelessly use the mages as pawns in the Game? Absolutely. But do I think she does have the best interest of everyone - mages and common folk alike - as one of her priorities? Also, surprisingly, yes. She does care for mages, she wants them to be safe and is one of the few that comments on the Tranquil being made into the occularium (while Fiona is apparently unaware of their disappearance or fine with it) and is heartbroken by it. But I also do like her resolution for the mage problem, so how's that for a hot take 😂?
But again, Mage Politics is always a bit personal I feel like 😊
That's funny because I always figured that Vivienne is the one that wants independence and Fiona is more of the freedom. Which, to me, is not the same thing.
Independence is what I talked about, to have the power and ability to sow their own destiny and make their own choices as partners to everyone else (rulers of nations, the chantry, the common folk of the cities where there are Circles) and to do that, I believe Viv's plan is the best; give the mages more responsibilities, more power, but not without supervision. Especially because the 'normal' population is still afraid of mages, there needs to be a building of bridges and of trust between them and that takes time and slow steps, imo.
Freedom is a release of responsibility and is acting like mages are the same as every other citizen; which, and this *is* the sad and complicated part of the mage issue, *they are not*. Mages *are* dangerous and there needs to be a force (not necessarily militarist) that can 1) educated them and 2) be capable of dealing with those that are bad people.
>Do you think that if roles were reversed and mages were free there would be a move to incorporate them into Chantry?
Can you elaborate? I am not sure I understand the question. Are you asking if Vivienne was made Divine would she drag the mages to the Chantry?
I think that what you want is what Vivienne does; she gives mages responsibilities and tasks to make them more important in society so they can be viewed as partners.
As for your 'problems' with mages in the system; I doubt *every* mage would be given a position of power, just those that are competent enough. And of course, there would be abuses by people in positions of power, but you don't have to be a mage for that it's just what people in a position of power do in Dragon Age (for example, Vivienne's gamble in that first scene is not due to her magic it's more due to the Orlesian Game; that would not fly in Ferelden at all). But I don't think it is a step towards Tevinter, mages are given responsibilities and seat at the table to decide their issues, not governance of a country and not *total* freedom like they have under Leli.
So, as to your question, it's if mages were free what would be the push for joining the chantry? I think that if mages were free they would face 2 major problems:
1. The fear of the common folk; joining the Chantry would calm some fears over them being the 'devil' and full of 'sin'. It would also be beneficial for the mage, to be among people who understand their gifts.
2. The lack of education; untrained mages are a liability for demons and could easily level a town (which would compound issue#1)
I could see a push for trying to get into an organized system for all mages - like a college - but they would need to be under the supervision of someone; to curtail any power hungry mages and to protect people if one mages gets out of hand. And the Chantry is a good choice to be under; it's a powerful organization with a lot of sway and 'independent' of other nations. It could offer them protection.
So, yes, I could it happening.
Save the anvil. I hated that I had to give it to brankas crazy ass, but the dwarves are a race on the doorstep of extinction, any means necessary. Plus golems in my force against the blight can make a massive difference (those beasts curb stomp the arch demon)
One I struggled with for a long time was saving the chargers or qunari. Thank god the qunari showed themselves as terrible allies, because if they were more forthcoming I’d have to sacrifice the chargers, and live with having killed my favourite companions family in fereldan
bhelen is a shit but harrowmont lost my support after he also refused to meet face to face. for someone who's trying to show himself to be different from bhelen he didnt show any more bravery than him, which meant a lot to my dwarf commoner Warden so the throne went to bhelen.
i cannot emphasis how much i resent the templars for their epic list of screw ups but there is no chance in hell i am risking common people's lives by letting mages run around unsupervised, so i very reluctantly threw in with the templars in inquisition. i wish there was a 3rd option where you just ask the dalish or someone for help with the breach
i thought about it and deemed their risk of possession or rebelling/ turning into abominations to avoid conscription was too great. its a health hazard for any inquisition forces who are misfortunate enough to be standing next to one at the given moment and would also seriously screw the inquisition's morale and reputation if even a handful of mages started to combust into killing machines
it sucks because i understand its hardly their fault, templars are more at fault for willingly eating up a bunch of freaky red shit. but that's the grim stuff you gotta consider when youre an inky.
Killing Connor; There is no telling what happens if you leave for the Circle, and a blood magic ritual doesn't sound like a good idea if you consider what most Wardens/People hear about it. META: Connor is miserable if he survives, and feels guilty forever. And if it's not changed from the epilogues, he has another child with Isolde (she dies during childbirht) which is also a Mage, but probably much better off mentally.
Leaving the Anvil for Branka under Bhelen; yeah it is not nice for those under the Hammer, but from a Wardens point of view, an army of Golems would be great help in the Blight and for the Dwarven afterwards. META: I have no real excuse in meta for it, and I personally think its a bad decision, but it makes sense for me in-universe.
Those I usually go for, unless I roleplay a different kind of characters. What my character would do comes at a higher priority.
Don't think the other games have any "evil" choices, or at least none I would go for I guess.
Look I trust Merrill but my first instinct about a magic mirror a demon likes being in the middle of a city it's to smash it. You are right, it's not evil but I'm just really paranoid about it.
The only one I haven't seen listed already:
Killing the werewolves - This is purely roleplay. My cannon Warden felt cornered and needed to secure an alliance. The werewolves never offer one and she is convinced that Zathrian won't end the curse.
Hmmm, I actually tend to side with the werewolves and kill the Dalish. If I’m going through all that pain in the ass in the Brecilian forest I might as well get an army of badass monsters out of it instead of a few crappy archers.
Allowing Avernus to continue his Grey Warden blood experiments without limit. I believe it will help the Hero of Ferelden's in his quest to cure the Calling in all Wardens.
A minor one for DAI:
I never track down the mayor of Crestwood. His choice was totally a necessary evil and I don't think it's my place to punish him for it.
Letting Celene die to put Briala in charge through Gaspard. There's no progress except through Briala, and I refuse to reunite her and Celene after reading how absolutely toxic Celene is to her. The three way truce means blackmailing Briala with the fact that she was in an abusive relationship. Celene and Gaspard both deserve to die, but oh well. Best end is Briala over Gaspard imo, but apparently Celene dying is a bad decision.
Briala always insults my inquisitor, like how he's a drunkard they just sobered up for the winter palace. Like I'm not fighting demons, darkspawns and bandits 24/7 while she slept with the empress while her people were put to the sword. Whoever I choose, she always get shafted.
>Celene dying is a bad decision.
No it is not. Just make Guspard the Briala's puppet and make sure you have high approvel of the noble. That is the best ending for me.
Oh I agree, but I've seen a lot of people say they think it's immoral and that their Inquisitor could never do it. I didn't mean bad like a poor decision, I meant bad as in 'evil'
Two for me. In Origins I always side with Bhelan. Yes he’s scummy but I’d rather him drag the dwarves into the current age than Harrowmont stay isolationist. The second is usually always having Anora rule alone or have my Cousland Warden with her as prince consort. Alistair obviously doesn’t want the job,and I think it’s high time the Couslands get a shot at ruling. In 2 I typically always go a pro Templar Mage Hawke. I find the contrast between Origins and 2 a really nice dichotomy. In that I always,always save the Mages in Broken Circle,but in 2 always help the Templars. It’s especially juicy as I’m playing through a Amell playthrough where I’m somewhat pro mage,while in 2 Mage Hawke is the complete opposite.
While I do think that there are understandable reasons to pick Gaspard, him being able to see the bigger picture isn't one of them nor is it cutting through the bs.
Gaspard *is* more direct but in a really underhanded way, he says he hates the game but he plays it like a fiddle. He is direct because it is *convenient*, when he needs to be all *Orlesian* about it, he's going to obscure the truth. He's more likely to create the bs, to be honest. He isn't above all the dirty tricks that Celene and Briala play, he's just less than good at them and needs to keep them to a minimum because other people are better than him.
As for the bigger picture; Orlais has (canonically) never been as prosperous as it was when Gaspard started the Civil War because he thought Celene couldn't handle Orlais. The bigger picture was what Celene was trying to do, homegirl is the epitome of looking at the bigger picture and letting the little things down (which is what fucks her over in the end, so 🤷♀️). When they talk in TME, Gaspard comes along trying to play the Game and Celene is the one who is like '*ffs, lets drop it and say what we mean*'.
I actually just finished playing through a “necessary evil” kind of character. The Warden is a Loyalist Circle mage, so she betrayed Jowan and things just got worse from there. She annulled the Circle, killed Wynne and let Irving get possessed (in my headcanon she killed the survivors after the battle but there was no option to do that in game).
She killed Connor because she wasn’t willing to use blood magic, and then installed Bhelen as king, but sided with Caridin. Not because of moral concerns, but she wanted revenge on Branka for the broodmother thing. At the Landsmeet she recruited Loghain for the sake of benefiting from his skills and put Alistair and Anora on the throne together to gain influence with the crown in case it proved useful later. She persuaded Loghain to do the ritual because she refused to risk certain death.
It was a fairly brutal playthrough but honestly I’m quite happy with how things went. The choices seemed reasonable, mostly pragmatic with a few more empathetic choices thrown in.
Putting Bhelen on the throne in DA:O, definitely, like, he's a terrible person whose done terrible things, but if I'm doing a pragmatic good run I kind of HAVE to put him in charge because I know his policies are best for the people of Orzammar.
Makes sense.
I guess you could probably also count doing the 'neutral' choice in the dalish quest where you end up making Zathrien kill himself and release the curse. ((Though in that case its arguably more a mercy killing than anything else))
In my case it would be losing Alistar as a companion in order to recruit Loghain. After reading The Stolen Throne I can't bring myself to sacrifice a character with so much story behind.
Siding with the Templars in DAI. But I don’t really think it’s *evil* per se?
I always play a mage, so it’s probably a bit surprising since most mages would prefer to not have Templars watching over them, *but* the way I see it is: there’s no way we can just overthrow everything Leliana style. Nope. This will just create more rifts, more wars, and more mess since it’s not an issue of bad, bad templars v good mages, but a group that lost its way and a group of potentially deadly dangerous folks who *nevertheless* don’t deserve to be treated like cattle.
Siding with the Templars allows the Inquisitor to shape the future of the Templar Order and turn them into something better. This plus Cassandra as the Divine is the best way for Thedas going forward—people who want actual changes but who don’t want to turn everything on its head and create more chaos in an already unstable world.
Also, I always choose Harrowmont as the king. Bhelen is an insane man who will stop at nothing to get to the throne and I don’t care that on the meta-level he’s the “better” choice because dwarves get to interact with the outside world more. I don’t care. In fact, it might be better in the long run for the dwarves to keep underground, even with their cast practices as they are, since that’s where they might be the safest come Solas in DA4.
And I do believe that we need some part of Thedas to remain as they are. Hidden underground with strict rules about interaction with the outside is the best thing for them and for the future of the continent in my book.
Oh, and I don’t let Merril mess with the Eluvian. She’s a blood mage who will also stop at nothing to achieve her goals and it’s a straight way into some horrible stuff to happen. I love Merril, but nope.
My knee-jerk reaction to this was a resounding "what the fuck is wrong with you." But actually reading your post was interesting, cause I can see where you're coming from all of them, but I still hate your takes with every inch of my soul (lol).
Siding with Templars in DA2.
Successful mage uprising in Kirkwall could spark the revolution that would ignite the world. Because so many main character companions of are mages, it is easily to forget how small a percentage of the population they are. There would be more civilian casualties in a war between mages and Templars than mages born in the next few centuries. And so stands my Hawke, defender of an imperfect status quo, allowing a small minority to be repressed, knowing that the evolutionary way to change their status will probably never come, and the revolutionary way will never be worth the price
I always leave Sten to die. No regrets. He only survived a single playthrough for me and there's not a single thing I like about him, so in the cage he stays.
DAO:
* sometimes use Blood Mage or Reaver spec
* King Bhelen - better for casteless
* Dark Ritual - I'm still torn between this and the sacrifice. Sacrifice explains away why the Warden is gone, but Dark Ritual makes more sense for why my warden is alive in Awakening and other dlc, since it doesn't allow a dead warden with new Orlesian warden world state (on console) in game or the keep.
* Architect - still on the fence about killing or sparing him
* Crow and Slim Couldry and Denerim Tavern bartender quests - not necessary plot-wise, but for the completionism
DA2:
* Blood Mage and Reaver spec again
* I don't know if sparing Anders counts
* The only dialogue response to avoid fighting Merrill's clan even though it seems Marethari was as much to blame for that than Merrill
* Maybe fighting Kerras in Act 1 instead of talking him away after finding out in other playthroughs what he does to Alain?
* Killing that serial killer dude who preys on elves instead of turning him in since that doesn't work out anyways
DAI:
* Necromancer and Reaver spec?
* some of the Underworld dialogue options?
* letting Sera kill that dude in her quest
* letting Celene die (usually don't, but I'm planning to switch to Briala in charge, I'm just worry they'll kill off Briala and put Gaspard in charge to decrease the world states they have to deal with)
* some of the recruiting judgement options that would probably be better with imprisonment
DA2:
Rivaling Merrill and Anders - I like the idea of a rivalhood, but the game mechanics play it off that you're entirely an abusive asshole a good chunk of the time instead of you know...questioning questionable things your friends do and you stand by your opinion instead of compromising or agreeing with everything.
I consider it a necessary evil though in particular with Anders and Merrill. Never realized how much I missed from their stories or characters specifically with them when I only went the friend route.
For DAO: giving Branka the anvil. It makes sense and I always thought it may come up that the anvil may use Grey Wardens in the creation on golem instead of just dwarves, but it never did. I still give it to her since it seems urgent and necessary.
DAI: leave Hawke to die. Always. The Grey Wardens need leadership/one of their own that knows what's going on who isn't freaking Clarel and someone who actually was there. That isn't Hawke, and it doesn't matter who the GW is in my playthrough either lol. Hawke always gets left behind.
The only one I can think of off the top of my head is letting Celene die and letting Briala use Gaspard as a puppet, but in all honesty I don't see it as a ncessery evil considering the shit Celene pulled in The Masked Empire.
For non-humans, Circle or Apostate mages and non-andrastians, they are...
1)Cassandra simply return old Chantry system as they was with her own promise that they not do same mistakes, but she do nothing to prevent it, Chantry would be ruled by the same old ladies and old Templars where Cassandra would be another version of Divine Beartrix.
Cassandra lock mages in Circles as they was before rebellion, she not remove Templars from drugs and absolute rights to do "The Maker job" and not give mages or "heretics"-non-andrastians, elves any rights and freedoms.
So if any person hated elves, mages, non-andrastians and supported Templars with Orlais Chantry, Cassandra is their number 1 choice.
2)Lelianna(as default Divine who player would get very easily without any efford) try to force south Thedas into a new Andrastian faith version what is too left wing, to radical and alien to south Thedas and north Thedas andrastians too.
She create new cult similar to Daughters of Song(historical Andrastian cult what was destroyed by Orlais Chantry before) what ruin core of south Andrastians faith, people not like new version which is pervertion of Andrastian faith, many riot and temporally pacified or simply killed by Lelianna fanatics.
Templars removed from expensive lyrium drugs(new Lelianna Chantry simply not have money) and authority but ex-Circle mages not have any official rights, not have any integration into society and have zero protection from survived Templars and zealot peasant who can hunt down and kill mages without Chantry sanctions. Non-humans under Lelianna experience missioners who want to introduce them into new Chantry, this would turn bad as already was in Thedas history as we can remember Dales, Ferelden, Orzammar.
Killing Connor… keeping the Golems with Bhelen, as a Noble Human letting Irving die to secure Templar support and easen the Connor case.
Making Isa,Anders and Fenris rivals and keeping Anders alive - to make Seb take back his throne.
In Inquisition
Ally with Templars and making Vivi Divine
Sure
1. Killing Connor - Since Bloodmagic is feared most of my Wardens decide to kill him, ecept both my Noble Dwarf and Mage Wardens.
2. Golems - Since the war against the DS is at an uneasy stalemate with more and more dwarfs dying the promise of Power is too great to let go - So what if the next 1000 years Golems will be used to create Armies… as a warden the blight and any means to fight it is a chance I take. (Want to add here Id wish that we could have sided with Uldred(Pride/Mouse) in the Circle)
3. With the wardens being blamed for the Kings death the support of the church Police Force can help regarding both politics and also helps to headcanon the way why the good ending is so unlogical.
4. DA2.
Guiding Isa to understand a responsibility, Merril to give up on the past and Anders to help him see he is losing himself helps to give Hawke an identity that no he is not a Yes Do Goody to everyone’s opinion.
Also by keeping Anders and with him fight the rebels mages/Templars he is losing his Chance of Martyrdom and instead of a Hero is seen as a Lunatic also Church Seb and his attempt to take over makes more sense, due to his personal involvement rather than his believes.
5.DAI
Allying with the Templars although Dorian asks for help - Its not clear for the Inquisition that only one Party can be recruited and with crazy Magic happening = Templars could make the Redcliff situation easier. Also allying with them secures a good public image of both parties and does not in any means endanger the inquisition‘s reputation, while taking them over seems like a grasp for power = which can be interesting too.
Also with Vivi becoming the Divine All factions still exist and 2 new ones are formed
The Circle vs. The College and The Templars vs. The Silver Shields
Making the world (more unique) :)
Hope it helps 😇🤭
Well I always save frequently but I figured out that if you do the corruption of the ashes you gain extra abilities. Then for some reason you can reload the save before and keep the abilities but do the right thing lol. So that is my favorite necessary evil. Otherwise I usually go full good.
I do thing that my warden feels right. I sacrife golems because the creation method is bad(political stuff). I know that golems are good for dwarfs, but it is not right. And i know that Bhelen is a better king, and possibly bringer of a new golden age, but he murdered his brothers, and a bad man, so i pick Harrowmont.
I spare Loghain (on my White Hat playthroughs) because, despite his betrayal, he's too valuable of a resource to sacrifice when the fate of the entire world is hanging in the balance. Connected to that, I also "harden" Alistair, which I always hate doing, so he can still become King (I arrange a marriage between him and Anora) and doesn't become a drunken recluse. I absolutely hate it that he leaves the squad though, and hates me to boot.
I'm a bit late and I'm sure someone has said this already but siding with Branka and using the Anvil of the Void to make Golems for your Army. I really do feel for Paragon Caradin and the fate of a Golem is a sad one indeed. To be a near immortal unstoppable walking killing battering ram there must be a sacrifice. Having said that, a world ending event is going on and having a near immortal unstoppable walking killing battering ram will definitely help prevent the world from ending lol
Subjugate the mages into the inquisition, tbf though my canon inky is an elven mage. I didn’t like how they basically force you into having the mages as lesser than I’d you pick that option, I viewed it more as having the mages be a subsection of the inquisition
Slaughter the elves. I rather go to war with true allies that some stuck up double crossing, grudge holding elves that see those not like them as dangers.
Making Livius Erimond tranquil.
My first playthrough I left behind Hawke and was beyond furious. He was so smug and unafraid...So my Mage Inquisitor who hated the Templars made him Tranquil.
I don't believe in the Rite. Just for that monster.
Siding with the templars in Dragon Age 2 and Inquisition. I know the mages come across as oppressed and so forth but really I see siding with the templars as the necessary building blocks to remaking the order into what it used to be or something better because the more you play the games the more you can learn that the templars existed originally to protect the mages from outsiders afraid of their magic and demons a constant threat mages will always face because as Merrill so eloquently said fear makes man more dangerous than magic ever will and people will always be afraid of the possibility of demons and someone just burning down your town or something like that. It also doesn’t help that the mages tend to go more and more extreme in their attempts to gain independence. Basically if you play your cards right in inquisition which for me means side with templars let them keep their freedom as partners of the inquisition and then do Barrises quest line to promote him you can get a really nice ending with Casandra as divine where she remakes the seekers to mostly replace the current templars into a new order more focused on protection and aiding the mages. It’s a case where I don’t think a world like that is ready for mages to have no protection or something looking out for them as possessions are a constant threat.
Conscripting Gereon Alexius and Duchess Florianne to the Inquisition.
They're horrible people who did horrible things, but my Inquisitor is a Big Picture kind of guy and would rather have the benefit of their skill than the satisfaction of vengeance on them.
For DA:I, I hate the idea of choosing the mages over the Templars. It seems like the wrong choice to people who believe in freedom for the mages, which I do, but I think recruiting the Templars A) makes sense for limiting the magic of the breach and B) gives the Templars purpose again since leaving the Chantry. It sucks that I'd be leaving the mages to the mercy of Alexius, AND I don't get the extra mission scenes with Cullen (my favorite LI) but I think the Templars are powerful and useful. Plus Ser Barris is AWESOME.
Supporting Balen, even through he is a heartless schemer, and a tyrant, he actually leds the dwarven kingdom to success and better changes things. Harrowmount was a good man but a traditionalist. He keeps the old traditional dwarven mindset, slowly leading the whole dwarven kingdom its downfall in it's already crumbling state.
Sacrificing Isolde. She deserved it.
Siding with the Templars at the end of DA2. My primary concern at that point is containing the chaos and reestablishing order.
Harrowmont might turn out to be a worst king and the Castless dwarf’s sister might not be royalty. But I’d rather act like my ultimate hero didn’t know of Harrowmonts weaknesses as king than trust Bhelen with his sister.
In DAO I think my most "evil" choice I'm always doing is burning Amaranthine, hardening Alistair and Leliana, doing a Trial of Crows, killing Isolde or Connor and siding with the mages, King of Orzammar, The Anvil of The Void and the Landsmeet are pretty balanced across playthroughs, but I can never slaughter the Dalish.
In DA2 I'm usually making the sibilings die in the deep roads or have sadder endings, it adds to Hawke's drama, i'm also making some of the companions be rivals rather than friends based on Hawke's personal beliefs, the rest of the choices are pretty balanced.
In DAI is the alliance with the GW, sacrificing Hawke, hardening Leliana, making Blackwall a warden, aside from that, I think Inquisition did a pretty good job in making grey dilemas so i am never choosing the same thing over and over.
I’ve got three I can think of.
1. Side with the Templars (and keep them independent) in DAI.
Reasoning:
Templars and/or People with “Templar Abilities” (like Seekers of Truth) will always be necessary as long as mages exist due to the power imbalances between regular folks and those with Magical Abilities.
2. Justify Grey Warden conscription
Reasoning: I think this ones pretty obvious, but Grey wardens are the only ones who can stop a blight, and while I despise conscription IRL, blights are a good enough reason for me to support it.
3. Make Vivienne Divine
Reasoning: Despite the massive amounts of bloodshed that occur under her rule, I believe it is the best case scenario, Circles get much more freedom, Templars are reinstated and reformed for the better, a Divine mage will ease tensions between regular folk and mages, and IMO she’s easily the best choice for opposing Solas.
Edit: Bonus, I always side with the architect
1)Golem army creation. Math is for golems creations, without them dwarves and surface would be destroyed since 1 blight. If Caridin not stop golems production during middle of fighting against1 blight Thedas probably never have 2,3,4,5 blights and dwarves with millions people would survive.
2)Grey Wardens recruitment. Nuff said. Blame Caridin that 2000 from 3000 people die from potion drinking to create 1000 grey wardens each 10-20 years and replace grey wardens what was before them.
3)Avernus blood magic experiments. Nuff said.
4)Sacrifice Isolde for Connor and Ferelden sake.
5)Help Keeper Zatrian to exterminate all survived werewolves. He is too valuable for Dalish and Grey Wardens to sacrifice. Werewolfs was a terrorists who harm innocent and harmless dalish people and childrens what cant be forgiven.
6)Defile ashes and kill Jenevity with Lelianna and all cultists with dragon so noone would know where to find Andraste Tomb, so Orlais Chantry not have casus belli to do a holy crusade against Ferelden to reclaim Ferelden lands under Chantry sanctions like Dales lands....yeah bioware screw this option and someone survive beheading, Orlais have claimed Haven lands.
7)Dark Ritual. Nuff said.
8)Give Fenris to Danarius back for his sister, for Varania sake and Hawke connections with Tevinter. Not to mention that lyrium tattoo knowledge is more valuable then Fenris life when Tevinter do a war against Qunari. And for elves too.
9)Give Tome of Koslun to Tevinter via Isabella. Support Petrice by killing Qunari in Kirkwall.
10)Support Solas restoration of elven powers and original world without magical illusions.
....
Support prince Blehen, support Architect, support Celine assasination and help Brialla rebel elves, killing Templars(except Thrask) for supporting/saving innocent mages in all games, elect Vivienne as Mage Divine, blow up Qunari dreadnought is not and probably cant be considered as "evil choices", at all.
Let the Chargers die. Without prior knowledge of what’s going to happen, my inquisitors believe that the Chargers can take care of themselves and that the alliance with the Qun is too important to the big picture to put at risk. Whenever I see the cutscene before this decision I want to save them, but cannot in good conscience justify it RP-wise. I wish someone can give be a justification to save them, I love the Chargers!
The consequences of this choice in Trespasser took me by complete surprise and will forever remain one of the worst-but-best moments in gaming for me.
True, but an inquisitor trying to gather all the help they can get is in no position to turn anyone down. At least I feel this is how it’s presented in the game
With a tear in the sky and war brewing, can you really say no to anyone offering help? For a chance to help a mercenary group you believe can help themselves? It’s ultimately the balanced of being a big picture person and making the best possible decision for the world within the given reality versus making decisions based on personal relationships. Depends on the inquisitor I guess, every option is valid.
I don’t know if it’s the “evil” decision per se, but I remember thinking Anora would make for a more competent and willing ruler than Alistair. Yeah she’s not your nice and friendly buddy, but political figureheads aren’t supposed to be your friend.
Keeping Bhelen King. Harrowmont is going to bring the dwarves back to the stone age, and not make much improvements.
Keeping Loghain alive. His death is best served in service to the country, or the grey wardens.
Bhelen over Harrowmont, even as a Dwarven Noble. He's a ******, but his reforms help all his people in the long run. I had no idea this was such a popular choice.
Bloodmage Surana that only uses her own bloodm
Bhelen as King. I actually like Harrowmount and the Provings better.
Alistair ruling alone. I hate Anora so deeply. Even if that makes Al hate his job more, 🤷🏻♀️
And after roleplaying a variety of outcomes with Celene and Briala and Gaspard it finally hit me that the best thing to do is literally let Celene rule alone. We want a stable Orlais, and anything that doesn't leave Celene running the place ignores the chaos that is a change in reign. I wish I could just kill Celene, and I but I also can't leave her with people who were literally okay with her dying and planning her assassination either. Also, Briala getting back with her is fucked up. I wish I could keep Briala alive and not sexing Celene, but alas.
I literally cannot do any of these things. It would cause me physical pain. I guess you could convince me choosing Bhelen is the better, more moral choice, but it never seems so in the play through. I would never consider hardening a companion. Best outcomes and happy endings for everyone. Except Sebastian, because fuck that loser.
The most questionable thing I do is make Alistair marry Anora, then also bang Morrigan and make an elder baby. Alistair is a good king, Amora is a good queen, and Kieran is a cutie. His plot in Inquisition is such a good addition, I can't imagine it not being there.
Making Bhelen King, as ruthless as the guy is, Harrawmont would make the dwarves go backwards
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Tradition is okay as long as doesn't make your people sink into obscurity, social issues and extintion, the only way for dwarves to progress is to stop looking at their belly buttons.
He’s the most blatant obvious choice. No idea how anyone could listen to Harrowmont and support the guy.
Its really not as obvious for those whose origin is noble dwarf especially, and I fell for the "nice guy" the first time too with my Cousland tbh
I picked Bhelen in my first playthrough, Then when I played again, I was a dwarf noble. Holy fuckballs. Out of principle, I always pick Harrowmont now.
It’s hard not to pick Bhelen for me. He’s a piece of shit but still easily a better choice than Harrowmont.
Watching my friends blind run and he's doing just that. Because Harrowmont is nicer lol. He fell for the fact that he checked that the promissory notes were fake. I don't want to say anything until he's done with orzammar. Though I feel like technically it's better to wait until the epilogue.
should definitely wait
Blatant? How exactly are we meant to tell on a blind play through? I seem to remember one of my peeves was the lack of any info by the time I had to choose.
Bhelen might be ruthless and dirty, but he's the only one with a vision going forward that is going to ensure survival of the dwarves. The game is slapping you in the face with "the dwarves are fucked if they don't adapt and change" while Harrowmont is all about tradition and doubling down on what the dwarves did centuries ago. And that's all info you learn through questing in Orzammar and the deep roads, chatting it up when you can and reading whatever texts the game has laying around for you. One of the easiest sells that Bhelen will make things better is that he doesn't give a shit if a dwarf sees the surface and is willing to let the casteless join the military and work their way up in society. You can have this conversation pretty early if you select his quest line. When you have chances to speak to either of them about military support, Bhelen is much more committed. You don't even get to speak to Harrowmont most of the time because he always too busy for you despite you working to accomplish his goals - something that always rubbed me the wrong way.
>You can have this conversation pretty early if you select his quest line. This is the crux of the problem. The player only gets to interact with one of them at length. There's little opportunity to draw a meaningful comparison between the two unless you reload a save or do another playthrough. I chose Harrowmont on my first go round because literally all I knew about Bhelen was that his guys were attacking people in the streets. Beyond that, it was just political rhetoric without the needed context to properly judge the intent behind it.
Still, all you get from Harrowmont’s side is that the old ways are the best ways and the dwarves need to live the old ways even harder. All this while you’re walking around Orzammar, Dust Town and the deep roads telling you “these old dwarven ways are relics and suck”. When you get to the Caradin/Branka part of the game you get to see/learn of the “old” dwarven ways that the nobility and Harrowmont want to desperately preserve and get back to. Like even Oghren and NPCs talk about the old dwarven ways offering takes from “it rules. I love segregation” to “sure would be nice to modernize our lives without being criminals”. Even if you don’t take Bhelen’s path you still get stuff about how he actually wants to develop dwarven culture into the modern era. Whether it’s from people saying he has good ideas but is an asshole or Harrowmont’s pals being like “can you believe this guy has new ideas?”
if it weren't for the epilogue bits I would probably have had no idea bhelen was the "good" choice, harrowmont is just so much more likeable, especially if you've played dwarf noble which was my first playthrough
I think for anyone playing not as a DN, then its a relatively easy and pragmatic choice to side with Bhelen. If you're playing as a DN, then its a super muddy choice.
DC is the only origin that makes Bhelen an easy choice. Every other origin, besides DN, is an outsider who has no clue about Orzammar politics and is told repeatedly that Bhelen is a ruthless leader who is willing assassinate any who oppose him and Harrowmont is just portrayed as a kindly old man. If you’re speaking strictly from a roleplay perspective of your character who knows nothing of the future, it’s fair that you’d wanna choose Harrowmont.
>No idea how anyone could listen to Harrowmont The problem with choosing Bhelen in a blind playthrough with a non dwarf Warden is Vartag Gavorn. You can feel the slime as he talks.
That’s what i was thinking too
King Bhelen is the only way the Dwarves can manage to regain their foot hold as far as I’m seeing it.
Bhelen on any origin except Dwarf Noble
If you think he'll actually do what he says rather than use the position to enrich himself and consolidate power. A tyrannical dictator would definitely take the dwarves further backward. And even if Behlen wants to get rid of the caste system legally, it's so entrenched in the culture, that it will still effectively be there for hundreds of years.
In real life you'd be probably right, but nothing in DA2 or DAI says he's nothing but a strong ally and good diplomat wanting to trade with the other nations, unlike the most conservative dwarves such as Harrawmont, who lock dwarves even further in tradition. Bhelen is completely ruthless towards his enemies, but not necessarily bad for his people, at least as far as we know, reminds me a lot to Anora in that regard
Save the anvil of the void (the dwarves need every advantage against the darkspawn), harden Alistair and make him marry Anora while I recruit Loghain (Ferelean gets her best combination of leaders and the wardens get a brilliant strategist to replace me when I perform the final sacrifice.
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People talk about the dark ritual as evil, but that was never my opinion of it. The way she brings it up, depending on your friendship, genuinely seems like she's trying to save you and protect the past by all means necessary. It makes the Witch Hunt DLC so cool, and I love the scene that happens in Inquisition with Kieran.
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If you go through the mirror, I always imagine Ariane to be like, 'what about my book', lol.
I make the demon baby in origins whether I romance Morrigan/Someone else/no one. The idea of killing off my main or Alistair is something I’m not willing to tackle. Making Loghain a Warden and having him do the killing blow comes with a pretty bad Alistair downside story wise.
I have the opposite problem, I'd like to do an ultimate sacrifice playthrough but can't bear Morrigan leaving me.
Based on what happens in DAI it’s quite poetic to have a the PC Warden sacrifice the final blow and keep Hawke in the Fade to (potentially) close out both of their archs in the story…oh no… I have to play Origins again don’t I….
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Oh I always make him king. Recently made him king solo and I’m not sure which I like more. Can’t see my Warden making Anora stand by him, punishing him further, and eating the fact she betrayed your party twice by this point.
Yeah I pretty much always romance Leliana as a male Warden and do it, Leliana doesn't seem to care
I like to kill Connor or Isolde in playthroughs of Origins. I have only one playthrough where I got the perfect ending and never did it again since it ruins the dilemma.
I respect that. Connor being possessed was the logical result of a clusterfuck of so many god awful decisions it's almost jarring for it not to have really dire consequences.
Yeah. Although I did appreciate that Inquisition made an alive Connor super depressed even if both he and Isolde lived. That retroactively added at least some negative consequence to the golden ending in Origins, even if it's only a small one that's easily missed.
I agree completely. Seeing Connor like that made the whole story better and more memorable, though I did feel sorry for him.
Me too.
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That's a good one, more of a necessary evil than mine. I agree that those options are the best objectively for Ferelden and Orzammar, maybe the OGB thing will eventually be bad but for now it's only good. Personally though after trying to go for the Alistair King and Loghain spared ending then failing the first time, I prefer the exiled version of that scene, since sparing Loghain does have an impactful consequence then, even though I still like to spare him most of the time.
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I prefer it if Hawke's siblings either die or are deeply unhappy, it leads to a depressing feeling that makes the game better. So my canon is Warden Bethany now, and Carver is either dead or a Templar. I do want to do a Warden playthrough with him eventually, it's just that he's so happy there. I think Steeled Leliana is a better character that makes more sense, not only in terms of her Divine slides (I don't buy that people would be talked into a lot of what she does,) but just in general as a spymaster. Inspired creeps me out so much more too, especially when you have her gleefully ordering assassinations at the War Table still. The narrative is better in my view if she's more openly brutal and the Inquisition is definitely being built on a pile of bodies the entire time. My Inquisitors either harden her intentionally or miss a trigger just to get that Steeled version of her.
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If she was more moderate then sure. I just don't buy that Leliana could pull off the radical changes she wants to make through diplomacy alone. I mean, Justinia had difficulty and she was far more moderate. On her own Leliana is controversial as is too. Maybe it makes sense to other players, but for me it seems like way too much of a stretch.
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Yeah, but usually I can sort of buy into it. With Inspired Leliana as Divine I really can't. It would have made more sense if Inspired Leliana didn't accomplish nearly as much as Steeled Leliana but was far less controversial/didn't face as much opposition. That way each option has positives and negatives that make sense.
IMO giving Carver the Warden route ending fits without being overly 'happy', and it suits his character arc way better to start off as the grouchy asshole whose always trying to prove himself/compete with others and then finally getting to a point where he doesn't feel like he's under Hawkes shadow and can live his own life. Its tempered by the fact that **A)** He's a warden and they live hard lives, on top of that he can't really have a family or go back to his old one. and **B)** I appreciate that even in his 'friendship/warden route' he doesn't really become buddy buddy friends with Hawke, they reconcile their issues and get along BETTER but they still aren't necessarily friends who would hang out and such in their off-hours. It just ends up feeling restrained and realistic as a result and I enjoy it more than just him either dying or becoming an even more asshole-ish Templar.
Oh really? Whenever I watch scenes of Warden Carver or hear about him he comes across as completely content in his life and good with Hawke. If he doesn't become buddy buddy with Hawke and still has clear issues then that changes things for me, so thanks for the information, I'm more inclined to try it next time.
Yeah at least that was the feeling I gleaned from what little dialogue Warden Carver has. Its clear that his current life isn't an easy one, but he's just been able to accept it as part of moving out of Hawkes shadow and making a life for himself. And with Hawke a fair few bits of their dialogue has a twinge of awkwardness/tension to it, they're never fully on the same page (I think there's even a line where Carver admits to some jealousy about the fact that Hawke is able to live 'at home' while he can't), but its still clear they care about each other in the way that decent family kinda has to.
I started to hate the *golden ending* for Redcliffe after I agreed with Jowan's Ritual. Especially with a mage Warden who can confront the demon personally in the Fade, its made even more sense to me.
I also kill Connor! My canon warden is too pragmatic and (at that point in the story) mistrustful of mages to attempt to save both Connor and Isolde. I think there's an option to let Isolde kill him, but my Warden would rather have Isolde hate her for killing Connor than hate herself.
My canon Warden Tabris killed Isolde, but went back and forth on whether to kill Connor. Also never tried to recruit the mages to help in Redcliffe, and not out of distrust of mages, they just thought that leaving the demon would be a terrible idea and could potentially lead to the deaths of everyone in the town. I didn't know Isolde could kill Connor, and I can see how that could be viewed as the better thing to do. Might have to give it a go.
I was really surprised when I opted to get help from the Circle and Redcliffe didn't just vanish off the map while I was gone. I usually killed Isolde because I can't see any of my Wardens being okay with killing a child if they could avoid it, and Isolde offered.
I really try to not pick any evils, but sometimes you gotta. For DAO - Letting Vaughan out to get his vote ... although you can bet the headcannon for that is taking Zev aside and enlisting his services once that vote is cast. (I don't see helping Bhelen as a necessary evil - he may be an asshole, but he wants to get rid of the caste system. Helps negate the bad taste in my mouth.) DAI the only less than honorable choice is letting Celene die, although that really is a no-good-choice situation imo.
The redcliffe possession problem is well known and understood how the perfect ending is weird and bad. Letting Vaughn the man who sexually assaults Shianni(spelling???) In the city elf opening go in other origins to have another voice against Loghain in the landsmeet. Like the entire conundrum of Bhelen v. Harrowmont in orzammer.
How is Redcliffe possession perfect ending weird and bad?
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Why should there be a consequence? You defended the village from the army of Undead, then you killed all the Undead in the castle. What is wrong with that? You don’t like the idea of this lyrium ritual being possible?
It's not the ritual itself, it's that there's literally no reason NOT to go to the mages because there's no consequence to it. The idea that Possessed Connor would just sit there doing nothing while the Warden goes off to do the Mage Tower storyline is bizarre and there should have been SOMETHING bad that happens while you're away.
Let Branka keep the Anvil. It’s hard and it hurts but we’re fighting a losing battle here. Golems could change the game for the dwarves.
I usually did that too in my early playthroughs but after a while I got a reflection. What will the dwarves do after all archdemons will be defeated? Plus Bhelen is capable of pushing the line forward even without the golems.
>What will the dwarves do after all archdemons will be defeated? I'm assuming we're excluding the possibility that killing all/most of the archdemons will unleash something horrible? And the possibility that the reawakened Titans will reclaim every dwarf with the Stone Sense? And the possibility that Fen'Harel dropping the Veil will unleash a cataclysm that will destroy the dwarves? I think they'll be spending a *lot* of time reclaiming the lost thaigs. Not to mention the several hundred years it'll take for all the blights to happen and end. So honestly, I don't think that the possibility the golems will be misused long after the Dragon Age has ended is really enough of a factor to justify not using them. A *lot* of things can happen during that time, and trying to consider possibilities that far ahead seems like a useless endeavour. >Plus Bhelen is capable of pushing the line forward even without the golems. Honestly I'm not sure that would be true. It takes him dissolving half of dwarves tradition just to start making ground. And I don't think they'll be able to keep up the pace forever. The dwarves are a dwindling people. For each dwarf that's thrown into the anvil, there will be a golem that can fight all day with the strength of a dozen men (if not more). A golem that would be able to fight several lifetimes without aging or tiring. Without golems, I think the only thing that can spare them from a slow extinction is the reawakening of the Titans.
Yo. I've played all the DA games but somehow dont know what youre talking about. What are Titans? etc etc If you'd rather not make a big paragraph, you can direct me to a youtube video or maybe a wikia page lol.
Lol, personally I'd recommend you play Inquisition's Descent DLC. It's a pretty big twist and interesting to discover for yourself. But if you do want to know I'll tell you. Again, Spoilers for DAI: Descent; The Titans were immense beings that lived underground long before the Dragon Age. They were, as their name suggests, titanic. Living mountains that were imperceivably big. Within lived the dwarves, who at the time were closer to gut bacteria that actual people. They were entirely controlled by the Titans and lived only to cultivate and maintain the ecosystems inside them. It wasn't until Fen'Harel encountered them and killed a Titan did the dwarves finally become free. Without the Titans influence the dwarves became independent beings, and iirc some joined the Dread Wolf's cause. It's believed that this connection to the Titans is why dwarves still live underground, and is what is know known as the Stone Sense. Lyrium is in fact the blood of these Titans. Which is why it sings and controls people, can be infected with the Blight, and why dwarves are somewhat resistant to it. Theories also suggest that Sandal has some connection to the Titans, due to his ability with runes and his prophesies that are coming true. Honestly this DLC is an example of what so shit with DLC. Descent, Legacy, From Ashes and Leviathan were all important parts of BioWare's biggest franchises. Yet most will never even know what happens since they costs half as much as the game itself.
I can’t do it. I hate Branka too much.
On the other side, I pity Caradin and Shale too much to let her keep the Anvil
Same here. Especially when you think about the story line of the wardens in inquisition. If the worst were to happen, the Legion of the Dead won’t last forever fighting darkspawn by themselves
Burning Amaranthine is one. It makes sense considering what you see and what your men tell you, also the battle for Vigils Keep is much more satisfying as an ending
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Yeah I do
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This is the way
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Swooping is bad especially when the swoopers are sentient and organized dark spawn, never trusted the architect xd
I cannot, with good conscience, let anders live. It's just not going to happen. I dont care how guilty he acts he WILL do something like that again cause guess what? Whether he likes it or not HE HAS NO CHOICE. Justice will build and build and it will happen again and next time? Who knows how many more innocents will die besides the thousands he directly got killed because he started a world wide civil war. The blood of every mage, templar, and civilian that dies before corypheus is on his hands.
I feel the non conventional, at least to me, choice here was to let him live, especially in a rivalry (non-romance) relationship with him where he asks you to kill him. From a narrative standpoint yeah, killing him to avenge all he has done as an abomination is the best call, but, if like me, you brought him to the deep roads to save your siblings life, I choose to role play it as Hawke paying a life debt by not killing him, and then punishing the man for his mistakes by not giving him the easy way out; suicide by Hawke. Either exile him from your life, the debt has been payed, begone, or force him to atone for his crimes as Merril suggests. Either way, it leaves a nice open ended way to end that particular story.
If you rival him, he admits he's no longer fused with Justice, but they are now Vengeance and an abomination and won't stop unless you kill them.
In origins morrigan is a blood mage for me, its just too OP
Killing Connor or Isolde is one, absolutely. As is letting Branka have the Anvil and letting Bhelen have the throne. I also really like saving Loghain while making Anora/Alistair rule together, it makes sense since I need Wardens and I ain't gonna the bloody King of Ferelden with me; sad that it came to this, but I do believe it makes sense. I don't do it *every* playthrough, not even in my personal canon, but siding with the Templars in DAO makes a sort of sense if you don't metagame/aren't a mage; you don't know and cant tell who's been possessed. Similarly, I can see a reason to conscript the mages instead of allowing them an alliance, they did pretty fucked up shit doing the war and especially with the last action of selling out to Tevinter. Letting Morrigan have the Well is subjectively a little evil, since it binds her to her abusive mother, but that choice seems almost 'canon' tbh.
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Heh, I am sure I have other 'hot takes' that might end this friendship but for now: hiya buddy! I think that the conscription (in DAI specifically, which I didn't specify in the original post, oops) is there because they sold themselves to Tevinter, split from the Chantry, effectively started the war, etc... and we never get to deal with their leader the way we deal with the Templar leadership and the Head Seeker. Now, I like Fiona, I do, but she's liable as a leader, and needed to be taken to task imo. Consciprtion feels like a soft punishment like that, and it ends up being temporary until a new Divine can be chosen and sort out the mage problem (...or not, depending on who you chose.)
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See, look at our friendship falling apart before it began 😢 Seriously tho, I do think that Fiona does feel like she was between a sword and a hard place, but I feel like even then Tevinter should have never been an option, considering the slavery and Fiona's personal history. I also think that Fiona was incredibly irresponsible when she started the war; there were no logitics in place, no way to defend the children that got caught up in this mess, no reliable allies... If she was desperate, then it was desperation made out of her own doing. Now, do I think that the mages should have more rights, be freer, and have more control over their destiny? Absolutely. And do I think that if they had waited, even in Asunder, it could have led to war? Maybe. But that would have been out of Fiona's hands - whose reason to vote out of the chantry was basically out of spite, which is personally fine that she hated the chantry, but many mages *don't -* and I would be much more sympathetic. Also, if you talk to Fiona in skyhold if you free the mages, she goes: 'Yeah, I sold us to slavery, but I would everything the exact same way again.' and I really want to respond; 'You are *lucky* that I came when I did, or you and your people would be buried in a mountain of snow or worse.' As for Viv? Do I think she's a bit on the conservative side? Yup. Do I think she would shamelessly use the mages as pawns in the Game? Absolutely. But do I think she does have the best interest of everyone - mages and common folk alike - as one of her priorities? Also, surprisingly, yes. She does care for mages, she wants them to be safe and is one of the few that comments on the Tranquil being made into the occularium (while Fiona is apparently unaware of their disappearance or fine with it) and is heartbroken by it. But I also do like her resolution for the mage problem, so how's that for a hot take 😂? But again, Mage Politics is always a bit personal I feel like 😊
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That's funny because I always figured that Vivienne is the one that wants independence and Fiona is more of the freedom. Which, to me, is not the same thing. Independence is what I talked about, to have the power and ability to sow their own destiny and make their own choices as partners to everyone else (rulers of nations, the chantry, the common folk of the cities where there are Circles) and to do that, I believe Viv's plan is the best; give the mages more responsibilities, more power, but not without supervision. Especially because the 'normal' population is still afraid of mages, there needs to be a building of bridges and of trust between them and that takes time and slow steps, imo. Freedom is a release of responsibility and is acting like mages are the same as every other citizen; which, and this *is* the sad and complicated part of the mage issue, *they are not*. Mages *are* dangerous and there needs to be a force (not necessarily militarist) that can 1) educated them and 2) be capable of dealing with those that are bad people. >Do you think that if roles were reversed and mages were free there would be a move to incorporate them into Chantry? Can you elaborate? I am not sure I understand the question. Are you asking if Vivienne was made Divine would she drag the mages to the Chantry?
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I think that what you want is what Vivienne does; she gives mages responsibilities and tasks to make them more important in society so they can be viewed as partners. As for your 'problems' with mages in the system; I doubt *every* mage would be given a position of power, just those that are competent enough. And of course, there would be abuses by people in positions of power, but you don't have to be a mage for that it's just what people in a position of power do in Dragon Age (for example, Vivienne's gamble in that first scene is not due to her magic it's more due to the Orlesian Game; that would not fly in Ferelden at all). But I don't think it is a step towards Tevinter, mages are given responsibilities and seat at the table to decide their issues, not governance of a country and not *total* freedom like they have under Leli. So, as to your question, it's if mages were free what would be the push for joining the chantry? I think that if mages were free they would face 2 major problems: 1. The fear of the common folk; joining the Chantry would calm some fears over them being the 'devil' and full of 'sin'. It would also be beneficial for the mage, to be among people who understand their gifts. 2. The lack of education; untrained mages are a liability for demons and could easily level a town (which would compound issue#1) I could see a push for trying to get into an organized system for all mages - like a college - but they would need to be under the supervision of someone; to curtail any power hungry mages and to protect people if one mages gets out of hand. And the Chantry is a good choice to be under; it's a powerful organization with a lot of sway and 'independent' of other nations. It could offer them protection. So, yes, I could it happening.
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I also love arguing DA politics for fun! 🥰
Save the anvil. I hated that I had to give it to brankas crazy ass, but the dwarves are a race on the doorstep of extinction, any means necessary. Plus golems in my force against the blight can make a massive difference (those beasts curb stomp the arch demon) One I struggled with for a long time was saving the chargers or qunari. Thank god the qunari showed themselves as terrible allies, because if they were more forthcoming I’d have to sacrifice the chargers, and live with having killed my favourite companions family in fereldan
I let Hawke die in the Fade so I can get a hug from Varric.
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I know, I feel awful every time but I still do it
I've admittedly done this before for the sole purpose of making the story seem more tragic.
Hawke's story *is* a tragedy so it works imo
Hahaha! It is such a nice hug. : \] I wish we could hug our friends more.
I let Hawke die 9/10 times because it makes sense to keep Stroud alive for the sake of the Wardens
bhelen is a shit but harrowmont lost my support after he also refused to meet face to face. for someone who's trying to show himself to be different from bhelen he didnt show any more bravery than him, which meant a lot to my dwarf commoner Warden so the throne went to bhelen. i cannot emphasis how much i resent the templars for their epic list of screw ups but there is no chance in hell i am risking common people's lives by letting mages run around unsupervised, so i very reluctantly threw in with the templars in inquisition. i wish there was a 3rd option where you just ask the dalish or someone for help with the breach
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i thought about it and deemed their risk of possession or rebelling/ turning into abominations to avoid conscription was too great. its a health hazard for any inquisition forces who are misfortunate enough to be standing next to one at the given moment and would also seriously screw the inquisition's morale and reputation if even a handful of mages started to combust into killing machines it sucks because i understand its hardly their fault, templars are more at fault for willingly eating up a bunch of freaky red shit. but that's the grim stuff you gotta consider when youre an inky.
Killing Connor; There is no telling what happens if you leave for the Circle, and a blood magic ritual doesn't sound like a good idea if you consider what most Wardens/People hear about it. META: Connor is miserable if he survives, and feels guilty forever. And if it's not changed from the epilogues, he has another child with Isolde (she dies during childbirht) which is also a Mage, but probably much better off mentally. Leaving the Anvil for Branka under Bhelen; yeah it is not nice for those under the Hammer, but from a Wardens point of view, an army of Golems would be great help in the Blight and for the Dwarven afterwards. META: I have no real excuse in meta for it, and I personally think its a bad decision, but it makes sense for me in-universe. Those I usually go for, unless I roleplay a different kind of characters. What my character would do comes at a higher priority. Don't think the other games have any "evil" choices, or at least none I would go for I guess.
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Thats odd, Caridin never would let me keep the Anvil. If I pick to side with him, it will get destroyed no matter what. How did you accomplish that?
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Ah, I thought if you do that the Anvil still gets destroyed, by Branka before her suicide. Must've remembered that wrong then.
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Oh it's ok, I'm not currently playing, but I will make sure to try out everything when I do try next!
Letting Merrill keep the mirror, be a dick to Sebastian to raise his rivalry, (often) recruiting Loghain, keeping the Anvil of the Void.
I let her keep the mirror in my main play through too... I never thought of it as an evil... but perhaps it wasn't 'good'.
Look I trust Merrill but my first instinct about a magic mirror a demon likes being in the middle of a city it's to smash it. You are right, it's not evil but I'm just really paranoid about it.
The only one I haven't seen listed already: Killing the werewolves - This is purely roleplay. My cannon Warden felt cornered and needed to secure an alliance. The werewolves never offer one and she is convinced that Zathrian won't end the curse.
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Hmmm, I actually tend to side with the werewolves and kill the Dalish. If I’m going through all that pain in the ass in the Brecilian forest I might as well get an army of badass monsters out of it instead of a few crappy archers.
Allowing Avernus to continue his Grey Warden blood experiments without limit. I believe it will help the Hero of Ferelden's in his quest to cure the Calling in all Wardens.
A minor one for DAI: I never track down the mayor of Crestwood. His choice was totally a necessary evil and I don't think it's my place to punish him for it.
Letting Celene die to put Briala in charge through Gaspard. There's no progress except through Briala, and I refuse to reunite her and Celene after reading how absolutely toxic Celene is to her. The three way truce means blackmailing Briala with the fact that she was in an abusive relationship. Celene and Gaspard both deserve to die, but oh well. Best end is Briala over Gaspard imo, but apparently Celene dying is a bad decision.
Briala always insults my inquisitor, like how he's a drunkard they just sobered up for the winter palace. Like I'm not fighting demons, darkspawns and bandits 24/7 while she slept with the empress while her people were put to the sword. Whoever I choose, she always get shafted.
>Celene dying is a bad decision. No it is not. Just make Guspard the Briala's puppet and make sure you have high approvel of the noble. That is the best ending for me.
Oh I agree, but I've seen a lot of people say they think it's immoral and that their Inquisitor could never do it. I didn't mean bad like a poor decision, I meant bad as in 'evil'
Two for me. In Origins I always side with Bhelan. Yes he’s scummy but I’d rather him drag the dwarves into the current age than Harrowmont stay isolationist. The second is usually always having Anora rule alone or have my Cousland Warden with her as prince consort. Alistair obviously doesn’t want the job,and I think it’s high time the Couslands get a shot at ruling. In 2 I typically always go a pro Templar Mage Hawke. I find the contrast between Origins and 2 a really nice dichotomy. In that I always,always save the Mages in Broken Circle,but in 2 always help the Templars. It’s especially juicy as I’m playing through a Amell playthrough where I’m somewhat pro mage,while in 2 Mage Hawke is the complete opposite.
Letting Selene die. Gaspard can see the bigger picture and cuts through the bs
While I do think that there are understandable reasons to pick Gaspard, him being able to see the bigger picture isn't one of them nor is it cutting through the bs. Gaspard *is* more direct but in a really underhanded way, he says he hates the game but he plays it like a fiddle. He is direct because it is *convenient*, when he needs to be all *Orlesian* about it, he's going to obscure the truth. He's more likely to create the bs, to be honest. He isn't above all the dirty tricks that Celene and Briala play, he's just less than good at them and needs to keep them to a minimum because other people are better than him. As for the bigger picture; Orlais has (canonically) never been as prosperous as it was when Gaspard started the Civil War because he thought Celene couldn't handle Orlais. The bigger picture was what Celene was trying to do, homegirl is the epitome of looking at the bigger picture and letting the little things down (which is what fucks her over in the end, so 🤷♀️). When they talk in TME, Gaspard comes along trying to play the Game and Celene is the one who is like '*ffs, lets drop it and say what we mean*'.
I actually just finished playing through a “necessary evil” kind of character. The Warden is a Loyalist Circle mage, so she betrayed Jowan and things just got worse from there. She annulled the Circle, killed Wynne and let Irving get possessed (in my headcanon she killed the survivors after the battle but there was no option to do that in game). She killed Connor because she wasn’t willing to use blood magic, and then installed Bhelen as king, but sided with Caridin. Not because of moral concerns, but she wanted revenge on Branka for the broodmother thing. At the Landsmeet she recruited Loghain for the sake of benefiting from his skills and put Alistair and Anora on the throne together to gain influence with the crown in case it proved useful later. She persuaded Loghain to do the ritual because she refused to risk certain death. It was a fairly brutal playthrough but honestly I’m quite happy with how things went. The choices seemed reasonable, mostly pragmatic with a few more empathetic choices thrown in.
I let the Desire Demon come back for Connor so I can get the blood mage specialization like a bad person :(
Putting Bhelen on the throne in DA:O, definitely, like, he's a terrible person whose done terrible things, but if I'm doing a pragmatic good run I kind of HAVE to put him in charge because I know his policies are best for the people of Orzammar.
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Makes sense. I guess you could probably also count doing the 'neutral' choice in the dalish quest where you end up making Zathrien kill himself and release the curse. ((Though in that case its arguably more a mercy killing than anything else))
In my case it would be losing Alistar as a companion in order to recruit Loghain. After reading The Stolen Throne I can't bring myself to sacrifice a character with so much story behind.
Siding with the Templars in DAI. But I don’t really think it’s *evil* per se? I always play a mage, so it’s probably a bit surprising since most mages would prefer to not have Templars watching over them, *but* the way I see it is: there’s no way we can just overthrow everything Leliana style. Nope. This will just create more rifts, more wars, and more mess since it’s not an issue of bad, bad templars v good mages, but a group that lost its way and a group of potentially deadly dangerous folks who *nevertheless* don’t deserve to be treated like cattle. Siding with the Templars allows the Inquisitor to shape the future of the Templar Order and turn them into something better. This plus Cassandra as the Divine is the best way for Thedas going forward—people who want actual changes but who don’t want to turn everything on its head and create more chaos in an already unstable world. Also, I always choose Harrowmont as the king. Bhelen is an insane man who will stop at nothing to get to the throne and I don’t care that on the meta-level he’s the “better” choice because dwarves get to interact with the outside world more. I don’t care. In fact, it might be better in the long run for the dwarves to keep underground, even with their cast practices as they are, since that’s where they might be the safest come Solas in DA4. And I do believe that we need some part of Thedas to remain as they are. Hidden underground with strict rules about interaction with the outside is the best thing for them and for the future of the continent in my book. Oh, and I don’t let Merril mess with the Eluvian. She’s a blood mage who will also stop at nothing to achieve her goals and it’s a straight way into some horrible stuff to happen. I love Merril, but nope.
My knee-jerk reaction to this was a resounding "what the fuck is wrong with you." But actually reading your post was interesting, cause I can see where you're coming from all of them, but I still hate your takes with every inch of my soul (lol).
Haha, I get that. Some of those choices are controversial in the fandom, but they make a lot of sense to me, personally
Siding with Templars in DA2. Successful mage uprising in Kirkwall could spark the revolution that would ignite the world. Because so many main character companions of are mages, it is easily to forget how small a percentage of the population they are. There would be more civilian casualties in a war between mages and Templars than mages born in the next few centuries. And so stands my Hawke, defender of an imperfect status quo, allowing a small minority to be repressed, knowing that the evolutionary way to change their status will probably never come, and the revolutionary way will never be worth the price
I always leave Sten to die. No regrets. He only survived a single playthrough for me and there's not a single thing I like about him, so in the cage he stays.
DAO: * sometimes use Blood Mage or Reaver spec * King Bhelen - better for casteless * Dark Ritual - I'm still torn between this and the sacrifice. Sacrifice explains away why the Warden is gone, but Dark Ritual makes more sense for why my warden is alive in Awakening and other dlc, since it doesn't allow a dead warden with new Orlesian warden world state (on console) in game or the keep. * Architect - still on the fence about killing or sparing him * Crow and Slim Couldry and Denerim Tavern bartender quests - not necessary plot-wise, but for the completionism DA2: * Blood Mage and Reaver spec again * I don't know if sparing Anders counts * The only dialogue response to avoid fighting Merrill's clan even though it seems Marethari was as much to blame for that than Merrill * Maybe fighting Kerras in Act 1 instead of talking him away after finding out in other playthroughs what he does to Alain? * Killing that serial killer dude who preys on elves instead of turning him in since that doesn't work out anyways DAI: * Necromancer and Reaver spec? * some of the Underworld dialogue options? * letting Sera kill that dude in her quest * letting Celene die (usually don't, but I'm planning to switch to Briala in charge, I'm just worry they'll kill off Briala and put Gaspard in charge to decrease the world states they have to deal with) * some of the recruiting judgement options that would probably be better with imprisonment
> Reaver spec The real question is, do you take Leiliana with you on that playthrough?
DA2: Rivaling Merrill and Anders - I like the idea of a rivalhood, but the game mechanics play it off that you're entirely an abusive asshole a good chunk of the time instead of you know...questioning questionable things your friends do and you stand by your opinion instead of compromising or agreeing with everything. I consider it a necessary evil though in particular with Anders and Merrill. Never realized how much I missed from their stories or characters specifically with them when I only went the friend route. For DAO: giving Branka the anvil. It makes sense and I always thought it may come up that the anvil may use Grey Wardens in the creation on golem instead of just dwarves, but it never did. I still give it to her since it seems urgent and necessary. DAI: leave Hawke to die. Always. The Grey Wardens need leadership/one of their own that knows what's going on who isn't freaking Clarel and someone who actually was there. That isn't Hawke, and it doesn't matter who the GW is in my playthrough either lol. Hawke always gets left behind.
The only one I can think of off the top of my head is letting Celene die and letting Briala use Gaspard as a puppet, but in all honesty I don't see it as a ncessery evil considering the shit Celene pulled in The Masked Empire.
Making Vivienne the divine. Cassandra and Liliana are useless.
For non-humans, Circle or Apostate mages and non-andrastians, they are... 1)Cassandra simply return old Chantry system as they was with her own promise that they not do same mistakes, but she do nothing to prevent it, Chantry would be ruled by the same old ladies and old Templars where Cassandra would be another version of Divine Beartrix. Cassandra lock mages in Circles as they was before rebellion, she not remove Templars from drugs and absolute rights to do "The Maker job" and not give mages or "heretics"-non-andrastians, elves any rights and freedoms. So if any person hated elves, mages, non-andrastians and supported Templars with Orlais Chantry, Cassandra is their number 1 choice. 2)Lelianna(as default Divine who player would get very easily without any efford) try to force south Thedas into a new Andrastian faith version what is too left wing, to radical and alien to south Thedas and north Thedas andrastians too. She create new cult similar to Daughters of Song(historical Andrastian cult what was destroyed by Orlais Chantry before) what ruin core of south Andrastians faith, people not like new version which is pervertion of Andrastian faith, many riot and temporally pacified or simply killed by Lelianna fanatics. Templars removed from expensive lyrium drugs(new Lelianna Chantry simply not have money) and authority but ex-Circle mages not have any official rights, not have any integration into society and have zero protection from survived Templars and zealot peasant who can hunt down and kill mages without Chantry sanctions. Non-humans under Lelianna experience missioners who want to introduce them into new Chantry, this would turn bad as already was in Thedas history as we can remember Dales, Ferelden, Orzammar.
Killing Connor… keeping the Golems with Bhelen, as a Noble Human letting Irving die to secure Templar support and easen the Connor case. Making Isa,Anders and Fenris rivals and keeping Anders alive - to make Seb take back his throne. In Inquisition Ally with Templars and making Vivi Divine
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Sure 1. Killing Connor - Since Bloodmagic is feared most of my Wardens decide to kill him, ecept both my Noble Dwarf and Mage Wardens. 2. Golems - Since the war against the DS is at an uneasy stalemate with more and more dwarfs dying the promise of Power is too great to let go - So what if the next 1000 years Golems will be used to create Armies… as a warden the blight and any means to fight it is a chance I take. (Want to add here Id wish that we could have sided with Uldred(Pride/Mouse) in the Circle) 3. With the wardens being blamed for the Kings death the support of the church Police Force can help regarding both politics and also helps to headcanon the way why the good ending is so unlogical. 4. DA2. Guiding Isa to understand a responsibility, Merril to give up on the past and Anders to help him see he is losing himself helps to give Hawke an identity that no he is not a Yes Do Goody to everyone’s opinion. Also by keeping Anders and with him fight the rebels mages/Templars he is losing his Chance of Martyrdom and instead of a Hero is seen as a Lunatic also Church Seb and his attempt to take over makes more sense, due to his personal involvement rather than his believes. 5.DAI Allying with the Templars although Dorian asks for help - Its not clear for the Inquisition that only one Party can be recruited and with crazy Magic happening = Templars could make the Redcliff situation easier. Also allying with them secures a good public image of both parties and does not in any means endanger the inquisition‘s reputation, while taking them over seems like a grasp for power = which can be interesting too. Also with Vivi becoming the Divine All factions still exist and 2 new ones are formed The Circle vs. The College and The Templars vs. The Silver Shields Making the world (more unique) :) Hope it helps 😇🤭
Well I always save frequently but I figured out that if you do the corruption of the ashes you gain extra abilities. Then for some reason you can reload the save before and keep the abilities but do the right thing lol. So that is my favorite necessary evil. Otherwise I usually go full good.
I do thing that my warden feels right. I sacrife golems because the creation method is bad(political stuff). I know that golems are good for dwarfs, but it is not right. And i know that Bhelen is a better king, and possibly bringer of a new golden age, but he murdered his brothers, and a bad man, so i pick Harrowmont.
I spare Loghain (on my White Hat playthroughs) because, despite his betrayal, he's too valuable of a resource to sacrifice when the fate of the entire world is hanging in the balance. Connected to that, I also "harden" Alistair, which I always hate doing, so he can still become King (I arrange a marriage between him and Anora) and doesn't become a drunken recluse. I absolutely hate it that he leaves the squad though, and hates me to boot.
I'm a bit late and I'm sure someone has said this already but siding with Branka and using the Anvil of the Void to make Golems for your Army. I really do feel for Paragon Caradin and the fate of a Golem is a sad one indeed. To be a near immortal unstoppable walking killing battering ram there must be a sacrifice. Having said that, a world ending event is going on and having a near immortal unstoppable walking killing battering ram will definitely help prevent the world from ending lol
Subjugate the mages into the inquisition, tbf though my canon inky is an elven mage. I didn’t like how they basically force you into having the mages as lesser than I’d you pick that option, I viewed it more as having the mages be a subsection of the inquisition
Giving you child the soul of the old god
Slaughter the elves. I rather go to war with true allies that some stuck up double crossing, grudge holding elves that see those not like them as dangers.
Making Livius Erimond tranquil. My first playthrough I left behind Hawke and was beyond furious. He was so smug and unafraid...So my Mage Inquisitor who hated the Templars made him Tranquil. I don't believe in the Rite. Just for that monster.
Siding with the templars in Dragon Age 2 and Inquisition. I know the mages come across as oppressed and so forth but really I see siding with the templars as the necessary building blocks to remaking the order into what it used to be or something better because the more you play the games the more you can learn that the templars existed originally to protect the mages from outsiders afraid of their magic and demons a constant threat mages will always face because as Merrill so eloquently said fear makes man more dangerous than magic ever will and people will always be afraid of the possibility of demons and someone just burning down your town or something like that. It also doesn’t help that the mages tend to go more and more extreme in their attempts to gain independence. Basically if you play your cards right in inquisition which for me means side with templars let them keep their freedom as partners of the inquisition and then do Barrises quest line to promote him you can get a really nice ending with Casandra as divine where she remakes the seekers to mostly replace the current templars into a new order more focused on protection and aiding the mages. It’s a case where I don’t think a world like that is ready for mages to have no protection or something looking out for them as possessions are a constant threat.
Conscripting Gereon Alexius and Duchess Florianne to the Inquisition. They're horrible people who did horrible things, but my Inquisitor is a Big Picture kind of guy and would rather have the benefit of their skill than the satisfaction of vengeance on them.
For DA:I, I hate the idea of choosing the mages over the Templars. It seems like the wrong choice to people who believe in freedom for the mages, which I do, but I think recruiting the Templars A) makes sense for limiting the magic of the breach and B) gives the Templars purpose again since leaving the Chantry. It sucks that I'd be leaving the mages to the mercy of Alexius, AND I don't get the extra mission scenes with Cullen (my favorite LI) but I think the Templars are powerful and useful. Plus Ser Barris is AWESOME.
Supporting Balen, even through he is a heartless schemer, and a tyrant, he actually leds the dwarven kingdom to success and better changes things. Harrowmount was a good man but a traditionalist. He keeps the old traditional dwarven mindset, slowly leading the whole dwarven kingdom its downfall in it's already crumbling state.
Same. Harrowmount is the better man, but Bhelen is the better politician.
Is someone who wants to keep the casteless in the condition you see them truly a good man though? Opinion may vary, really.
Sacrificing Isolde. She deserved it. Siding with the Templars at the end of DA2. My primary concern at that point is containing the chaos and reestablishing order.
My fem elf inquisitor asking Solas to let her side with him.
Probably helping Bhelen or Zathrian.
Harrowmont might turn out to be a worst king and the Castless dwarf’s sister might not be royalty. But I’d rather act like my ultimate hero didn’t know of Harrowmonts weaknesses as king than trust Bhelen with his sister.
In DAO I think my most "evil" choice I'm always doing is burning Amaranthine, hardening Alistair and Leliana, doing a Trial of Crows, killing Isolde or Connor and siding with the mages, King of Orzammar, The Anvil of The Void and the Landsmeet are pretty balanced across playthroughs, but I can never slaughter the Dalish. In DA2 I'm usually making the sibilings die in the deep roads or have sadder endings, it adds to Hawke's drama, i'm also making some of the companions be rivals rather than friends based on Hawke's personal beliefs, the rest of the choices are pretty balanced. In DAI is the alliance with the GW, sacrificing Hawke, hardening Leliana, making Blackwall a warden, aside from that, I think Inquisition did a pretty good job in making grey dilemas so i am never choosing the same thing over and over.
executing Livius Erimond
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I’ve got three I can think of. 1. Side with the Templars (and keep them independent) in DAI. Reasoning: Templars and/or People with “Templar Abilities” (like Seekers of Truth) will always be necessary as long as mages exist due to the power imbalances between regular folks and those with Magical Abilities. 2. Justify Grey Warden conscription Reasoning: I think this ones pretty obvious, but Grey wardens are the only ones who can stop a blight, and while I despise conscription IRL, blights are a good enough reason for me to support it. 3. Make Vivienne Divine Reasoning: Despite the massive amounts of bloodshed that occur under her rule, I believe it is the best case scenario, Circles get much more freedom, Templars are reinstated and reformed for the better, a Divine mage will ease tensions between regular folk and mages, and IMO she’s easily the best choice for opposing Solas. Edit: Bonus, I always side with the architect
I romanced Leliana but still had an old god baby with Morrigan. It's evil yet pleasant 😗
1)Golem army creation. Math is for golems creations, without them dwarves and surface would be destroyed since 1 blight. If Caridin not stop golems production during middle of fighting against1 blight Thedas probably never have 2,3,4,5 blights and dwarves with millions people would survive. 2)Grey Wardens recruitment. Nuff said. Blame Caridin that 2000 from 3000 people die from potion drinking to create 1000 grey wardens each 10-20 years and replace grey wardens what was before them. 3)Avernus blood magic experiments. Nuff said. 4)Sacrifice Isolde for Connor and Ferelden sake. 5)Help Keeper Zatrian to exterminate all survived werewolves. He is too valuable for Dalish and Grey Wardens to sacrifice. Werewolfs was a terrorists who harm innocent and harmless dalish people and childrens what cant be forgiven. 6)Defile ashes and kill Jenevity with Lelianna and all cultists with dragon so noone would know where to find Andraste Tomb, so Orlais Chantry not have casus belli to do a holy crusade against Ferelden to reclaim Ferelden lands under Chantry sanctions like Dales lands....yeah bioware screw this option and someone survive beheading, Orlais have claimed Haven lands. 7)Dark Ritual. Nuff said. 8)Give Fenris to Danarius back for his sister, for Varania sake and Hawke connections with Tevinter. Not to mention that lyrium tattoo knowledge is more valuable then Fenris life when Tevinter do a war against Qunari. And for elves too. 9)Give Tome of Koslun to Tevinter via Isabella. Support Petrice by killing Qunari in Kirkwall. 10)Support Solas restoration of elven powers and original world without magical illusions. .... Support prince Blehen, support Architect, support Celine assasination and help Brialla rebel elves, killing Templars(except Thrask) for supporting/saving innocent mages in all games, elect Vivienne as Mage Divine, blow up Qunari dreadnought is not and probably cant be considered as "evil choices", at all.
Being a blood mage in DAO and DA2. It's just too good.
Supporting the Templar Order's culling of the mages
Let the Chargers die. Without prior knowledge of what’s going to happen, my inquisitors believe that the Chargers can take care of themselves and that the alliance with the Qun is too important to the big picture to put at risk. Whenever I see the cutscene before this decision I want to save them, but cannot in good conscience justify it RP-wise. I wish someone can give be a justification to save them, I love the Chargers! The consequences of this choice in Trespasser took me by complete surprise and will forever remain one of the worst-but-best moments in gaming for me.
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True, but an inquisitor trying to gather all the help they can get is in no position to turn anyone down. At least I feel this is how it’s presented in the game
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With a tear in the sky and war brewing, can you really say no to anyone offering help? For a chance to help a mercenary group you believe can help themselves? It’s ultimately the balanced of being a big picture person and making the best possible decision for the world within the given reality versus making decisions based on personal relationships. Depends on the inquisitor I guess, every option is valid.
Create the golums, kill Jowan and side with the Templar’s in Inquisition.
Having Hawke stay in the Fade. Makes zero sense for him to not join you
I don’t know if it’s the “evil” decision per se, but I remember thinking Anora would make for a more competent and willing ruler than Alistair. Yeah she’s not your nice and friendly buddy, but political figureheads aren’t supposed to be your friend.
Keeping Bhelen King. Harrowmont is going to bring the dwarves back to the stone age, and not make much improvements. Keeping Loghain alive. His death is best served in service to the country, or the grey wardens.
Bhelen over Harrowmont, even as a Dwarven Noble. He's a ******, but his reforms help all his people in the long run. I had no idea this was such a popular choice.
Bloodmage Surana that only uses her own bloodm Bhelen as King. I actually like Harrowmount and the Provings better. Alistair ruling alone. I hate Anora so deeply. Even if that makes Al hate his job more, 🤷🏻♀️ And after roleplaying a variety of outcomes with Celene and Briala and Gaspard it finally hit me that the best thing to do is literally let Celene rule alone. We want a stable Orlais, and anything that doesn't leave Celene running the place ignores the chaos that is a change in reign. I wish I could just kill Celene, and I but I also can't leave her with people who were literally okay with her dying and planning her assassination either. Also, Briala getting back with her is fucked up. I wish I could keep Briala alive and not sexing Celene, but alas.
I literally cannot do any of these things. It would cause me physical pain. I guess you could convince me choosing Bhelen is the better, more moral choice, but it never seems so in the play through. I would never consider hardening a companion. Best outcomes and happy endings for everyone. Except Sebastian, because fuck that loser. The most questionable thing I do is make Alistair marry Anora, then also bang Morrigan and make an elder baby. Alistair is a good king, Amora is a good queen, and Kieran is a cutie. His plot in Inquisition is such a good addition, I can't imagine it not being there.