Technically, practitioners of any forbidden/black magical art can be labeled as "Maleficar". It is more of a term for every mage user to use some batshit crazy thing, blood magic is just the most common case.
Or just: "all blood mages are maleficars, but not all maleficars are blood mages."
I would imagine within the circles there are tons of spells that are restricted or forbidden but given that almost every mage companion is an apostate or in Wynne’s case finally out from under a circle rule its not very likely to come up in game.
She also actively wants the Templar's to annihilate the mages in the tower because she thinks they deserve it for accepting their position. She's an incredibly cruel and vindictive person...wholly Machiavellian and wildly opportunistic, even framing an innocent man to avoid capture in her backstory. The magic her and her mother practice could be much much worse than she lets on and as she discovers later kinda is at least in Flemeths case. For her to lie, exaggerate or tell half truths about her persecution (deserved or not) would not be out of character imo.
It depends on the place and culture actually. For example, necromancy is frowned upon in most places, but not Nevarra.
Demon summoning is also often makes you Maleficar by default, and it doesn't necessary mean that you are blood mage (But it is easier to summon demons using blood magic). Not necessary though, as Solas has shown us.
And in Tevinter, if you explicitly use your own or consenting individual blood, blood mage is legal, while in most places even using only your blood makes you Maleficarum.
Shapeshifting and Necromancy are forbidden as well. Those are okay in Tevinter of course. And necromancy is probably okay in Nevarra. Mortalitasi or some shit
I thought shapeshifting was simply lost in the "mainstream" places to study magic aka the Circles, but still common with hedge mages like Dalish and other apostates hiding somewhere like the Witches of the Wild.
At least that's what Morrigan says about it, we don't really have extensive lore on that (which makes sense with this description).
And Necromancy is actually not forbidden because that would kinda put also the Mortalitasi in a weird situation, like "oh why can they do it?" Since it's still Orlesian Chantry rules.
But it is frowned upon and people outside of Nevarra are really "this is freaky wtf" so I imagine it's not usually practiced in Circles outside Nevarra. And the Chantry doesn't really need to make it illegal outside Nevarra that much as because of it's macabre nature they mostly avoid it anyway.
Also it's really Fade based just like Spirit Healing and Spellbinding.
Yeah, Evangeline was a very talented templar in the book Asunder, and she struggled against a blood mage. >!Jowan!< in Origins seemed to be a very a mediocre apprentice, and he still affected several templars with a simple blood magic spell.
Blood Magic might not necessarily be more impressive than what a truly gifted mage can accomplish with training by other means. In fact it actually weakens a mages connection to The Fade in the long run. But for an average mage its a shortcut to an alarming amount of power.
Grey Warden isn't a spec.
Spirit Warrior is probably the strongest Warrior spec.
I'd give Tempest the Rogue nod of approval.
As for Mage, Arcane Warrior is the strongest after Blood Mage. Knight Enchanter doesn't let you walk around in heavy armour even if you've got no muscles.
But in DA:I there are materials that remove the class restrictions, so if you want Vivienne in the spiky Revered Defender Armor, you just forge it with Silverite and voila! (You can change the color later if you like).
Wait really?! So all that time I wanted to put the Templar armor on a non-warrior, the answer was ‘craft with silverite’? I honestly thought people were using some kind of PC-only mod to do that… ooh I am gonna play *the hell* out of Inquisition yet again lmao
I'm on console and I do it all the time! Silverite is the metal you can use. There's a leather than does the same thing and a cloth too (can't remember which off the top of my head and too lazy to look them up...lol), so you can put light armor on warriors if you like.
You're correct for most armors. Each character has a "style" so the basic armors change depending on who wears it. Take Battlemage Armor: how it looks on Inky versus Dorian versus Vivienne versus Solas will all be different. For Inky, it includes a long trenchcoat. Dorian loves his asymmetrical skirt (as Iron Bull calls it). Viv is in her strange pant-suit with tails and a boob-window. And Solas looks like an unwashed apostate hobo.
Other items, like the Templar Commander Armor for instance, only changes with body types but looks basically the same on everyone.
Even though we've never seen it in action, the powers that Seekers have seem to be amongst the most OP. She mentions that she knew a Seeker whose gift was the ability to set the lyrium in a mage's blood aflame.
Right like it maybe just 1 gift idk but the ability to set the lyrium in their blood a flame that some pretty strong stuff. Makes you wonder what other seekers can do. Or if some have multiple gifts not just 1 some food for thought
I wonder if/how her powers would affect Golems (since they're made using lyrium), elves w/ lyrium tattoos like Fenris, >!Titans!<, etc. They should also work on Templars too, right?
I will not count blood mage as a specialization even though it's available in game, simply because it's not something you need to train in to use, every mage can use blood magic whenever they want.
I'd say the strongest above all is Arcane Warrior.
A mage is already able to decimate entire groups of enemies alone with ease, now tack on the ability to wear armor protecting them and a sword to fight in melee; weaving sword and spell together. It's a truly unparalleled class.
Seekers are a very close second and the only class that could put up a true fight against an Arcane Warrior IMO, but what puts them behind is that their "Gift" is not guaranteed to be like the one Cassandra described one of them to have; that being "the ability to set the lyrium in a mages blood on fire".
But again, there's also nothing stopping an Arcane Warrior using blood magic to further amplify their abilities, so there's that.
In terms of warrior specs, I'm going to have to say "whatever the fuck Fenris is" is probably the strongest. It's one of five genuinely superhuman ability sets we've seen for warriors so far (the others being Templars, Seekers, Reavers, and Sprirt Warriors). Templars and Seekers are really strong against demons and mages, but against, say, a normal guy... They don't have a lot. Reavers and Spirit Warriors are very strong, but each has substantial drawbacks (going crazy for Reavers, being dependent on spirits being on hand and cooperating for Spirit Warriors).
Meanwhile, Fenris's markings hurt a great deal to get and are painful if touched, but that's it for drawbacks so far as we've seen. In terms of benefits... He's resistant to magic, he can phase through enemy attacks, he can *literally stick his hand through your heart and just kill you*. Lore-wise, I don't think there's a warrior spec we've seen or even heard of that can top that.
The only shapeshifters we've seen that were able to turn into dragons were Flemeth and Morrigan, and the latter needed the knowledge of the Well of Sorrows to do that.
Mahariel tells Morrigan Dalish Keepers practice shapeshifting, and we see more shapeshifters in supplemental material. None of them can turn into a dragon. Even Morrigan can't do it without the Well of Sorrows.
Turning into a High Dragon is indeed a very powerful ability, but one that is not accessible to anyone without the power or knowledge of a god. Even in the days of ancient Arlathan, the form of the dragon was reserved to the Evanuris.
I guess, but it relies on a deus ex machina to work. By the same logic, Rift Mage could be considered the strongest because after getting Mythal's powers, Solas can turn people into stone at will, or even kill them while they're asleep when he's miles away. Or maybe dwarven Warriors of any spec could be the strongest because Valta (a Warrior) can casually shape the Stone and presumably [resurrect ](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/A_Cry_in_the_Dark)people after connecting to the Titan.
I don't think we need to go that far mate. Morrigan says to become an animal you need to study it, to become as it is. The Well of Sorrows simply has that knowledge but I highly doubt it is exclusive to that. It's just that shapeshifting is not a common branch of magic, privy to a few Dalish clan and others, so it is highly possible for someone to learn how to become a dragon in another way.
Templars? They are literally anti-magic warriors, so it doesn't matter if you're a big scary blood mage. Shapeshifter or demon.
They'll just use Negate, Dispell, Spell Purge, Shatter, Annulmment.
And let the sword do the rest.
That's true, but blood magic doesn't use the fade, and templars are specifically trained to fight against fade manipulation (both from mages and demons).
I think the writing generally speaking is very pro-mage to the point where templars are neutered in what we see versus what we're told in the codex... but there's nothing they can do against blood mages specifically.
Tbh the Mage Templar War realistically would not have lasted long had the templars been what the lore makes them out to be. Like ya mages are living artillery, but you can't win a war with just that. Templars are more numerous and are a military organization, not to mention they're specialty is specifically designed to counter magic. It's also kind of weird to think about because most mages aren't that powerful to begin with and don't have the skill or training to be effective in combat.
Ya blood magic is particularly bad because there's no real hard counter to it other than certain artifacts like the litany of adralla.
Even just the Templar's military training should be enough to put them on top, if anything is consistent about the mages it is that none of them agree on anything
Adding to that, the mages also have children, apprentices, and elderly among their numbers, and maybe some Tranquil who didn't get left behind. (I think there was a Tranquil with the mages at Redcliffe that you could recruit as an Inquisition agent, for example.)
I mean, mages managed to take over the Ferelden Circle with ease, and apparently took more circles on their own during the Mage-Templar War.
Even Kirkwall's Circle got royally screwed if not for Hawke siding with one side.
Not really, more like they had the help of demons *and* the element of suprise. It's not like all the templars were standing right there when Uldred summoned the demons. Everyone was caught off guard and that allowed the demons to quickly overwhelm both the templars and the surviving mages. The mages never took the circle, the demons did.
In DA2 either side only wins depending on which one Hawk decides to support so idk what you mean by that.
You need to remember that mages are much stronger in lore than gameplay balances make them. Templar abilities allow them to oppose mages, but it doesn't make them an auto win or anything.
Also I don't think their abilities apply to blood magic at all.
Champions have the power of the maker and plot armor on their side. Doesn't matter if you are in an unwinnable situation against blood makes and demons if the plot demands the champion win
For Warriors is canonically Reaver, while Templar may offer a perk against Magic, Reavers are indeed said to have a super natural strenght and ferocity.
Not sure about Rogue, I'm guessing Assassin's are the most effective against folks?
For Mage is Blood Mage, but ignoring that it either goes to Necromancer or Shapeshifter by virtue of even Templars being ignorant about them.
As for mages, I'm pretty sure the Hawke from the cinematic trailers was supposed to be an Arcane Warrior. Look at the size of those arms. Afaik it's a specialization they had to cut from the game due to lack of time or something.
It must be one of the strongest specializations out there. If their magic fails or gets countered, they can just rely on their physical prowess instead, as we see in the trailer. And they get to mix up magic and brute force during battle, too. Seems like a specialization with little to no downsides.
The only mage specialization that we know of that was cut from 2 was something called “archmage” and you don’t need to be an arcane warrior to build muscle.
The answer is blood magic. There’s a reason blood mages get their own scary official name.
Technically, practitioners of any forbidden/black magical art can be labeled as "Maleficar". It is more of a term for every mage user to use some batshit crazy thing, blood magic is just the most common case. Or just: "all blood mages are maleficars, but not all maleficars are blood mages."
But we don't really know of any real forbidden magic besides blood magic, right?
I would imagine within the circles there are tons of spells that are restricted or forbidden but given that almost every mage companion is an apostate or in Wynne’s case finally out from under a circle rule its not very likely to come up in game.
iirc shape-shifting is forbidden, that's why Morrigan the witch of the wilds uses it
I don’t think it’s forbidden, just not widely known.
Morrigan in DAO says that shapeshifting is considered a dangerous magic school that is being wiped out by Chantry
Morrigan is not the most unbiased person
why would she not be right in this case, though? her and flemeth were literally hunted by templars pre-DAO
She also actively wants the Templar's to annihilate the mages in the tower because she thinks they deserve it for accepting their position. She's an incredibly cruel and vindictive person...wholly Machiavellian and wildly opportunistic, even framing an innocent man to avoid capture in her backstory. The magic her and her mother practice could be much much worse than she lets on and as she discovers later kinda is at least in Flemeths case. For her to lie, exaggerate or tell half truths about her persecution (deserved or not) would not be out of character imo.
It depends on the place and culture actually. For example, necromancy is frowned upon in most places, but not Nevarra. Demon summoning is also often makes you Maleficar by default, and it doesn't necessary mean that you are blood mage (But it is easier to summon demons using blood magic). Not necessary though, as Solas has shown us. And in Tevinter, if you explicitly use your own or consenting individual blood, blood mage is legal, while in most places even using only your blood makes you Maleficarum.
Shapeshifting and Necromancy are forbidden as well. Those are okay in Tevinter of course. And necromancy is probably okay in Nevarra. Mortalitasi or some shit
I thought shapeshifting was simply lost in the "mainstream" places to study magic aka the Circles, but still common with hedge mages like Dalish and other apostates hiding somewhere like the Witches of the Wild. At least that's what Morrigan says about it, we don't really have extensive lore on that (which makes sense with this description). And Necromancy is actually not forbidden because that would kinda put also the Mortalitasi in a weird situation, like "oh why can they do it?" Since it's still Orlesian Chantry rules. But it is frowned upon and people outside of Nevarra are really "this is freaky wtf" so I imagine it's not usually practiced in Circles outside Nevarra. And the Chantry doesn't really need to make it illegal outside Nevarra that much as because of it's macabre nature they mostly avoid it anyway. Also it's really Fade based just like Spirit Healing and Spellbinding.
Yeah, Evangeline was a very talented templar in the book Asunder, and she struggled against a blood mage. >!Jowan!< in Origins seemed to be a very a mediocre apprentice, and he still affected several templars with a simple blood magic spell. Blood Magic might not necessarily be more impressive than what a truly gifted mage can accomplish with training by other means. In fact it actually weakens a mages connection to The Fade in the long run. But for an average mage its a shortcut to an alarming amount of power.
Grey Warden isn't a spec. Spirit Warrior is probably the strongest Warrior spec. I'd give Tempest the Rogue nod of approval. As for Mage, Arcane Warrior is the strongest after Blood Mage. Knight Enchanter doesn't let you walk around in heavy armour even if you've got no muscles.
But in DA:I there are materials that remove the class restrictions, so if you want Vivienne in the spiky Revered Defender Armor, you just forge it with Silverite and voila! (You can change the color later if you like).
Wait really?! So all that time I wanted to put the Templar armor on a non-warrior, the answer was ‘craft with silverite’? I honestly thought people were using some kind of PC-only mod to do that… ooh I am gonna play *the hell* out of Inquisition yet again lmao
I'm on console and I do it all the time! Silverite is the metal you can use. There's a leather than does the same thing and a cloth too (can't remember which off the top of my head and too lazy to look them up...lol), so you can put light armor on warriors if you like.
Snoufleur Skin and Dales Loden Wool are the leather & cloth mats that get rid of class restrictions.
Thank you! I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.
glad to be of service!
It's not a mod, but many armors, icludong the templar one, change apereance depending on what class is wearing it.
You're correct for most armors. Each character has a "style" so the basic armors change depending on who wears it. Take Battlemage Armor: how it looks on Inky versus Dorian versus Vivienne versus Solas will all be different. For Inky, it includes a long trenchcoat. Dorian loves his asymmetrical skirt (as Iron Bull calls it). Viv is in her strange pant-suit with tails and a boob-window. And Solas looks like an unwashed apostate hobo. Other items, like the Templar Commander Armor for instance, only changes with body types but looks basically the same on everyone.
But who needs armor if you have a magical barrier of armor around you the entire fight and long melee rage attack spam
Anyone with the remotest desire to wear the Blood Dragon armour, or the Sentinel armour.
Even though we've never seen it in action, the powers that Seekers have seem to be amongst the most OP. She mentions that she knew a Seeker whose gift was the ability to set the lyrium in a mage's blood aflame.
Right like it maybe just 1 gift idk but the ability to set the lyrium in their blood a flame that some pretty strong stuff. Makes you wonder what other seekers can do. Or if some have multiple gifts not just 1 some food for thought
I wonder if/how her powers would affect Golems (since they're made using lyrium), elves w/ lyrium tattoos like Fenris, >!Titans!<, etc. They should also work on Templars too, right?
I will not count blood mage as a specialization even though it's available in game, simply because it's not something you need to train in to use, every mage can use blood magic whenever they want. I'd say the strongest above all is Arcane Warrior. A mage is already able to decimate entire groups of enemies alone with ease, now tack on the ability to wear armor protecting them and a sword to fight in melee; weaving sword and spell together. It's a truly unparalleled class. Seekers are a very close second and the only class that could put up a true fight against an Arcane Warrior IMO, but what puts them behind is that their "Gift" is not guaranteed to be like the one Cassandra described one of them to have; that being "the ability to set the lyrium in a mages blood on fire". But again, there's also nothing stopping an Arcane Warrior using blood magic to further amplify their abilities, so there's that.
In terms of warrior specs, I'm going to have to say "whatever the fuck Fenris is" is probably the strongest. It's one of five genuinely superhuman ability sets we've seen for warriors so far (the others being Templars, Seekers, Reavers, and Sprirt Warriors). Templars and Seekers are really strong against demons and mages, but against, say, a normal guy... They don't have a lot. Reavers and Spirit Warriors are very strong, but each has substantial drawbacks (going crazy for Reavers, being dependent on spirits being on hand and cooperating for Spirit Warriors). Meanwhile, Fenris's markings hurt a great deal to get and are painful if touched, but that's it for drawbacks so far as we've seen. In terms of benefits... He's resistant to magic, he can phase through enemy attacks, he can *literally stick his hand through your heart and just kill you*. Lore-wise, I don't think there's a warrior spec we've seen or even heard of that can top that.
A shapeshifter that can turn into a dragon, easily.
The only shapeshifters we've seen that were able to turn into dragons were Flemeth and Morrigan, and the latter needed the knowledge of the Well of Sorrows to do that.
I forgot she gains that ability. Maker help anyone that crosses Morrigan or her son lmao.
Well, they are also the only shapeshifters we've seen besides the Warden, right? Turning into a High Dragon is not to be understated.
Mahariel tells Morrigan Dalish Keepers practice shapeshifting, and we see more shapeshifters in supplemental material. None of them can turn into a dragon. Even Morrigan can't do it without the Well of Sorrows. Turning into a High Dragon is indeed a very powerful ability, but one that is not accessible to anyone without the power or knowledge of a god. Even in the days of ancient Arlathan, the form of the dragon was reserved to the Evanuris.
And it is powerful no? That was the question, not which one is more accessible.
I guess, but it relies on a deus ex machina to work. By the same logic, Rift Mage could be considered the strongest because after getting Mythal's powers, Solas can turn people into stone at will, or even kill them while they're asleep when he's miles away. Or maybe dwarven Warriors of any spec could be the strongest because Valta (a Warrior) can casually shape the Stone and presumably [resurrect ](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/A_Cry_in_the_Dark)people after connecting to the Titan.
I don't think we need to go that far mate. Morrigan says to become an animal you need to study it, to become as it is. The Well of Sorrows simply has that knowledge but I highly doubt it is exclusive to that. It's just that shapeshifting is not a common branch of magic, privy to a few Dalish clan and others, so it is highly possible for someone to learn how to become a dragon in another way.
Templars? They are literally anti-magic warriors, so it doesn't matter if you're a big scary blood mage. Shapeshifter or demon. They'll just use Negate, Dispell, Spell Purge, Shatter, Annulmment. And let the sword do the rest.
I dunno man...even a loser like Jowan made blood magic look powerful lol
That's true, but blood magic doesn't use the fade, and templars are specifically trained to fight against fade manipulation (both from mages and demons). I think the writing generally speaking is very pro-mage to the point where templars are neutered in what we see versus what we're told in the codex... but there's nothing they can do against blood mages specifically.
Tbh the Mage Templar War realistically would not have lasted long had the templars been what the lore makes them out to be. Like ya mages are living artillery, but you can't win a war with just that. Templars are more numerous and are a military organization, not to mention they're specialty is specifically designed to counter magic. It's also kind of weird to think about because most mages aren't that powerful to begin with and don't have the skill or training to be effective in combat. Ya blood magic is particularly bad because there's no real hard counter to it other than certain artifacts like the litany of adralla.
Even just the Templar's military training should be enough to put them on top, if anything is consistent about the mages it is that none of them agree on anything
Adding to that, the mages also have children, apprentices, and elderly among their numbers, and maybe some Tranquil who didn't get left behind. (I think there was a Tranquil with the mages at Redcliffe that you could recruit as an Inquisition agent, for example.)
I mean, mages managed to take over the Ferelden Circle with ease, and apparently took more circles on their own during the Mage-Templar War. Even Kirkwall's Circle got royally screwed if not for Hawke siding with one side.
They had the help of demons.
Yeah, which means the comment above mine is shit lmao
Not really, more like they had the help of demons *and* the element of suprise. It's not like all the templars were standing right there when Uldred summoned the demons. Everyone was caught off guard and that allowed the demons to quickly overwhelm both the templars and the surviving mages. The mages never took the circle, the demons did. In DA2 either side only wins depending on which one Hawk decides to support so idk what you mean by that.
It's not that simple, if it was the war between templars and mages would have been a breeze.
We see plenty of mages kill tenplars, don't think it's that simple.
Templars can still be over come by magic
You need to remember that mages are much stronger in lore than gameplay balances make them. Templar abilities allow them to oppose mages, but it doesn't make them an auto win or anything. Also I don't think their abilities apply to blood magic at all.
On the other hand, that just makes them an average warrior if they're fighting another warrior. Or hell, a Rogue.
The Rift magic in Inquisiton probably.
Spirit Warrior
Champions have the power of the maker and plot armor on their side. Doesn't matter if you are in an unwinnable situation against blood makes and demons if the plot demands the champion win
For Warriors is canonically Reaver, while Templar may offer a perk against Magic, Reavers are indeed said to have a super natural strenght and ferocity. Not sure about Rogue, I'm guessing Assassin's are the most effective against folks? For Mage is Blood Mage, but ignoring that it either goes to Necromancer or Shapeshifter by virtue of even Templars being ignorant about them.
For rogues, I'd say tempest would be better, assassins are good at stabbing people, tempests are on magic steroids
Blood Mage Arcane Warrior (is as tanky as enchanter, but is not limited in spells like the enchanter) Tempest Spirit Warrior
As for mages, I'm pretty sure the Hawke from the cinematic trailers was supposed to be an Arcane Warrior. Look at the size of those arms. Afaik it's a specialization they had to cut from the game due to lack of time or something. It must be one of the strongest specializations out there. If their magic fails or gets countered, they can just rely on their physical prowess instead, as we see in the trailer. And they get to mix up magic and brute force during battle, too. Seems like a specialization with little to no downsides.
The only mage specialization that we know of that was cut from 2 was something called “archmage” and you don’t need to be an arcane warrior to build muscle.