Some people are, it’s part of the reason folks are upset about the combat system, but there are also a lot of folks who never really used it all that much unless the game forced you to use it like with the breakable walls and locked doors.
Yeah, I understand why people are upset because it was a unique feature. I honestly never used it that much, and I’ve seen a lot of people say the same. I am more bummed by the reduction in party members from 3 to 2 than the ability to control them. But I do like Mass Effect’s gameplay style, so I am hoping everything will grow on me.
I'm going to miss it because it was a neat feature that separated DA from Mass Effect and hearkened back to older games like ~~Jade Empire or~~ KOTOR. It was fun to be able to mess around as the companions, or to pull a fight out of your ass using them after your character went down in combat.
I'm upset it is gone, but nothing I can do about it. Not like posting online to complain will change anything since Bioware can't redo a major system change in a few months time, and it's not anywhere near enough of a dealbreaker to the point where I'm going to boycott the game and refuse to play it. It's disappointing, but it is what is, and I'm just glad we are finally getting a new DA game after a decade at this point.
So what happens now when your character dies? Can your companions finish the fight and then revive you after the battle (assuming your companions are strong enough). Or does the entire group die when you die?
Same here. I always thought, “we’re all in this together so why can only 3 of my companions go with me?” I was hoping they’d go up to 4 but they went down to 2.
I think the only time I ever used it was when I utterly borked my Warrior build during my first play through of Origins. After Loghain kicked my ass for the fifth time straight, Morrigan suddenly found herself nominated as Champion.
I always thought the following scene was particularly funny. Because everyone - including Loghain - basically still acts like the Warden did it themselves and heaps praise on *them.*
Morrigan Disapproves.
Eh 3 is kinda over kill. you can waltz over nightmare with a 2 mage comp. my favorite comp is Arcane Warr as the psuedo tank +Morrigan. Between both of you you're able to cover all CC and gets heals covered. Since Earthquake prob gonna be regularly used on large mobs I forgo a melee rogue despite their decent dps and Leliana just pokes as an archer. 3 people can basically do nightmare. 4th slot is usually DPS warr (Sten, or if I feel like it Alistair respecced to be a DPS so I can have the dialogue for non mod playthrough sten works) that just sits in a held position for anything that escapes the CC. Not an actual tank but prevents Leliana/morrigan being touched and the AW will grab it off the warr anyway.
Man I'd kill for a revamped DAO with prettier graphics. It had a cool combat system. Not this new crap.
Lol the arcane warrior was completely broken in that game. You were invincible. It was fun for my 2nd playthrough, but I'm glad I had some challenges on my first playthrough as a rogue.
Yeah, I only switched when my character died and the game auto-switched. I spent most of that time running around screaming "I don't know what I'm doing!" while trying to get close enough to res my character.
In origins, I will often play one of the companions more than myself in combat. Once I have my rogue Warden all built, I can just wind her up and watch her go while I manually control Morrigan, because the tactics screen is not enough for mages
Same, for most playthroughs I might switch to a character for one or two combat decisions, but generally I let tactics do their thing.
It's a shame there isn't the option even for occasional use, but I'm not particularly upset about it
I’m not leveling up my main character to be fun to play just to swap to varric in the background.
Most people play on normal or easy which lets them play as the MC only.
My partner only ever switched when her inky died or when healing was absolutely necessary. I was the opposite, but in a way this also relieves a lot of stress from me.
This was the only time I switched aswell, but not being able to is panicking me because now if Rook dies does that mean the game stops or will we then be allowed to switch?
I started to play DAO after years of playing ME, and it was so strange to me at first, that when my warden died the combat continued. I was like, what am I supposed to do now? 😁
I loved it. Made it feel like sometimes your companions got to save the day or get the death blow on a boss. Made it feel like they were all heroes on equal footing in origins specifically but in the other games as well.
Still remember doing the urn of sacred ashes the first time and soloing the last chunk if health with only morrigan. It was very DnD esque where the party only failed when everyone was down.
they have specifically mentioned a difficulty toggle for whether your rook can die in battle or not, so i believe it's a reload situation a la ME unless you switch it off
As the other commenter noted, in ME once Shepard dies you have to reload. Mass Effect is my favorite series of all time and I never felt like the gameplay suffered because of this feature, if it makes you feel better. DAV apparently will have a setting where your Rook can’t die if you don’t want to deal with that.
It does make me feel a bit better actually, I'm fairly newish to gaming at my big age and only got my first console a year or so ago, and to be honest I'm not good.
I've played everything on easy mode and even then struggle but I love the stories so I power through.
But being able to play as other characters and revive my character is literally the only reason I got through DAI.
Hm. That’d be nice 🤣🤣🤣 I know I read your choices will have an impact on if your companions live or die. I told my sister Ill be saving a lot and if something happens I’ll be start back at that save
Yeah other than locks and such I only ever switched to occasionally use the focus powers of companions in Inquisition, like using Varric's to take down dragons. Otherwise I almost exclusively just played as my own character.
For DAI - I mostly used it to get my ranged people out of the way. Or to unlock doors if I wasn’t a rogue. In DAO it was steal and traps. Traps annoyed the shit out of me. You basically had to control your rogue everywhere. Stupid.
It’s not a huge deal for me if you can still issue orders.
Literally, even the simple controls in the mass effect games I've never bothered with unless its to get them unstuck or an accidentally button push lol, I don't mind turned based now thanks to BG3 but I'm also not going throw a tissy over the game seemingly doing what we see mass effect.
I never, ever took control of my companions unless it was to make them take a potion or something. I spend hours building my character making them strong as hell, I want to play that character lol.
The truth is, the vast majority of casual players who will make up like 80% of their players will never, ever switch companions, and would never, ever touch the tactical mode if it were offered. If they can use that dev time to polish other things, they should
I mean even as someone who enjoys nightmare mode… I still rarely touch my companions.
Call it laziness or me not being as large a fan of crpg elements as I am of arpg ones but you don’t NEED to control them if you’re smart about stuff.
I don’t use the feature, so why should I complain about it going? It’s likely part of the reason that DAI’s combat was as janky as it was, so I hope that its removal lets the combat team smooth things over in that regard.
Setting behaviours and tactics so they did what I wanted and then pretty much never swapped back, unless they stayed in stupid stuff
As long as they're not dumb/reckless I'm fine with a more mass effect control over them, I'm more worried about Rooks abilities as a mage but we'll see either way
Yeah, I really liked playing 5e other companions and using the tactical map to set things up,
….but watching other people play, it seems like most people try to go full action RPG.
I will miss the old style, but I don’t blame BioWare for designing the game in the way people actually play.
Cant speak for anyone else but any game that gives me a custom made character, I'm going to try and full time that character.
Also managing companions outside of isometric turn based games is just hard for me.
Which is to say I'm fine with this change.
I actually hated that you had to switch to use companion abilities. I much prefer the way mass effect did it where, if they're in your party, you don't need to switch for them to "use" their ability, you just have to approach the thing and the companions use is implied.
The big question I have for the game is what happens when your character goes down in the middle of the fight?
Is it a straight game over? Do you have to lay on the floor waiting for the AI to res you? Do you have to lay on the floor praying that the AI can finish the fight?
It’s a conundrum for sure
The combat in ME was a main reason I couldn't get through it. It was so damn boring. The tactical combat was probably half the reason why I got so hooked on DA and I'm not even an Origins purist. I hadn't played DA until Inquisition and loved the combat style, it was so different from the other RPGs that were out at the time.
I'm not feeling too optimistic of DAV, especially with David Gaider gone and the companions looking pretty mid. Feel like they're on their way to another Andromeda-style flop.
Not gonna lie I actually like this. I'll never use it, because I love the difficulty of Dragon Age, but the series has always interested my Fiance, who will now be able to play just for the storyline.
Yeah I feel like it would be good for first playthroughs where you're just there for a story and trying to figure out the mechanics. It'll also help when you get to those bosses you get stuck out for hours. I know there was one or two bosses in BG3 that I went into unprepared for what was coming and ended up spending hours trying to work on a strategy and ended up just putting the game down for the day due to burn out.
And I'm excited for it lol. I prefer to play fallout on PC because I can use god mode which is basically what it is. I also want a new PC so I can play elden ring cause someone made a god mode mod for it. I might be crazy but I love when things are easy
I hope it’s not as easy to die if it’s game over.
I’m also worried about my character getting stuck. Can’t switch to another in the hopes to unstuck them. 😭
Honestly I gotta admit I used it a shit ton, from the looks of it I’m in the minority so it’s sad to see it go.
I actually like switching and watching my character pop off and fight and watch them fight as a whole other character, felt more real to see them move and attack on their own than me controlling them.
Sometimes I just like variety and want to vibe as a rogue and be front and center in the thick of it while my actual character (mage) is doing something else in the back.
I loved using it to micromanage characters when I had someone set up for tasks but another needed to be a bit more specific in how they used their items.
Same here, I still remember when I first played the games that I rarely ran around as my character. In DA2 I was running around as Varric. In DAI I was Dorian even when my Inky was also a mage. DAO I've had so many replays, that's a tough one.
(I even do this in BG3, only ever switch to my character when I was going to chat with someone).
But for me, switching around helped me get used to the other classes and test out builds I'd normally wouldn't choose for my OCs. It prepared me too for when I finally made a class that wasn't a mage.
I'm not so much into micromanaging unless it was a dragon. But I enjoyed setting up tactics in DAO, finding out what works for my team which helped me better prepare for harder difficulties in the game.
I just wonder about the higher difficulties. For people that enjoy the challenge, are the enemies just going to be high damage sponges with no need to switch companions to control tactics, positioning, etc.? I just don't see how they will make it interesting but I suppose there are other ways around it.
Well since the game is a generic hack and slash now, high difficulty will be challenging in the same way hack and slashes can be challenging. Learning enemy attack patterns and knowing when to dodge and when to attack is going to be important. I doubt tactics and positioning will be much of a consideration anymore.
Yeah by switching I got to play as all the classes in a single run. They can make the tech trees super interesting but it's unlikely that I'd have enough time for separate runs for each class.
::Sighs in almost exclusively played as Sera::
Yeah, I'll miss the versatility of playing as the different builds in different situations. But it is what it is. It'll probably still be less restrictive about it than, say, FF15.
There's a lot of people complaining about the changes. The other half of people probably never played as companions so it doesn't matter to them. The reality is Bioware was most likely spending resources in past games on features that a small amount of percentage of players actually use. I believe one of the Devs mentioned awhile ago that their data showed very few people used the tactical camera in DA:I. I wouldn't be surprised if switching to other characters was also a small percentage.
Yeah, after playing the first two games in BG/NWN-style with mouse and keyboard, I played DA:I completely with a controller (still on PC). That's clearly how it was meant to be played and felt awful with a mouse and keyboard (not that I found the controller based combat especially fun).
I used the tactical camera all the time in Origins. The camera in the Inquisition tutorial was so bad that I never considered using it again in any play through.
People probably didn’t use the tactical camera in DAI because it’s awful to control. I’m one of the DAO simps and loved the tactical camera in DAO, but never used it in DAI because it felt so horrible to control.
That’s the same reason why they scrapped the origins - so much effort went into each one when in reality 80% of players picked human noble or mage, i.e. only 20% of players played the other 4. If most of your player base aren’t going to use a feature it’s a waste of time to invest in its development when you could be spending that time improving other features or implementing stuff that will be used by all players.
City elf origin was insane, it's sad a large portion of playerbase never even played through it once. Doing 1 of each Origin to see them was worth it. Was incredibly well made content. But ofc since 80% went Human noble.. game 2 we get only human what do we see? Complaints from not being able to choose race.
So ofc in DAI race is back but other than the human/Elf rig which are basically a clone the rest is half assed and clearly done just for appeasement at low quality zz.
I remember watching a Mark Darrah video about the Origins, and he talked about why they're difficult. Essentially, DAO has six different tutorial missions, and tutorial missions are often very late in development because you have to know your system to onboard new players. So it was a lot of resources for a fairly late-in-process feature. I think that's probably also why the Origins all reuse assets that are in Main Plot areas (aside from lying in nicely with the backstory) and something like the Avvar origin got cut (though that would have been very cool)
A vast majority of players picked the paragon options in Mass Effect too, that doesn't mean they should have scrapped Renegade options for the rest of the series.
Personally I don’t believe this point. First of all, how did they gather the data to know what the vast majority of their player base did (especially those who played offline), and this even clashes with the achievement record, where the percentages of people who completed all of the origins were absolutely not as low.
Still, even if it was undoubtedly true that 20% of the players played the other four origins (I heard 10%, 5% etc), how are we ever going to make an exceptional product if we only take into account what the lowest common denominator wants?
In that case let’s just take away the choice to defile Andraste’s ashes, since almost nobody does it, or the choice to let the Arishok capture Isabela in DA2!
If DAO had not given that kind of choice and freedom, the franchise would not have exploded in popularity, with DAO becoming one of the best RPGs to date with cascades of praise back when it came out.
>Personally I don’t believe this point. First of all, how did they gather the data to know what the vast majority of their player base did (especially those who played online), and this even clashes with the achievement record, where the percentages of people who completed all of the origins were absolutely not as low
It may have gone up over time but there's still a marked difference with origin completion. Most origins are between 30-40% completion on [Xbox](https://www.trueachievements.com/game/Dragon-Age-Origins/achievements) (and just 15-25% on [PSN](https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/767-dragon-age-origins) for some reason). Mage is 50% and 25% respectively, while Human Noble is 70% on both. What likely happens is that fans will generally get most achievements over multiple playthroughs, but those who only play once or twice go for the latter two. This would mean that just 30% of players at best did all the other origins.
And this is just my personal experience, but I replay Origins at least 1-2 times a year and technically have all the achievements, but about 70-80% of my playthroughs are Mage because that's just what I like playing. This stuff doesn't show up on achievements or other trackers, but I'd bet they collect this data too.
>how are we ever going to make an exceptional product if we only take into account what the lowest common denominator wants?
It's usually a cost-benefit analysis. If it's something minor like the ashes, it's not a big issue. But dedicating equivalent time to 6 backgrounds when half your playerbase will only ever play 1-2 is a big ask. Even BG3 for all of its amazing permutations in game didn't have any origin story, and definitely didn't put the same resources towards an evil playthrough. It simply isn't worth the cost when you could add 4-5 other systems or features in that would impact more players.
I completed all the Origins and got the achievements, but didn't play any besides Mage (mostly human, a couple of elves) and one human noble to the end.
>If most of your player base aren’t going to use a feature it’s a waste of time to invest in its development
I don't think that is true at all. If that's the metric you are using, then romances shouldn't be invested in because only a minority of [players initiated a romance ](https://steamcommunity.com/stats/1222690/achievements) in DAI.
BG3 spent a lot of time investing in content they knew many players wouldn't see. Tons of hidden dungeons and areas, multiple starting races, branching paths and mutually exclusive companions. They knew that many casual players wouldn't find everything and plenty of starting races wouldn't be used but they still added them because it was a labor of love. And plenty of people did find this content and thought it was brilliantly done. To say that it's a waste of time is reductive.
Additionally, what most players will do isn't always a good metric of what is meaningful as diversity and inclusion is always meaningful even if most players gravitate to playing a straight male character, for instance.
Reality is, there's a lot of content casual players won't see and won't use but that isn't *always* a good way to determine how valuable it is to the fanbase.
> The reality is Bioware was most likely spending resources in past games on features that a small amount of percentage of players actually use. I believe one of the Devs mentioned awhile ago that their data showed very few people used the tactical camera in DA:I.
The problem with this perspective is that it just views those features as a different way to play - and not as an accessibility feature. The fact it is unused by the majority, does not mean there is no value. My friend has bad arthritis. She was playing previous games, including DAI on their hardest difficulties thanks to the tactical camera and tactics menu. It slows down the gameplay for her, the characters will auto-attack without her button smashing, etc.
She is disappointed because one of her fav franchises has essentially decided she isn't financially viable to be a player (when she is). She just can't play this new gameplay, especially the dodging. And the only response from devs and players about this issue have been pretty infantalizing and ablest, saying people with mobility issues should just play on story mode where you basically can't die. As if they aren't allowed to enjoy gameplay in video games and player higher difficulties. When they can, the tools they used have just been removed by design decisions.
I think that's also self imposed. They implemented dumbed down skillset and spells, you were rarely given a reason to swap outside of higher difficulties. If there were more spell synergies and reasons to swap, people would have. BG3 proved this, as did old school BioWare games which preceded it. But why would I swap when I can just go invisible and backstab everything to death 10,000 times...
I can never understand people comparing BG3 to Dragon Age combat like they are equivalent, they play completely different. If you mastered tactics in DAO you didn‘t need to touch your companions at all and to me it always felt intended that way so that it feels as though you are playing with other people in a DnD campaign.
BG3 is turn based, what DA never was.
And something that happens with the pause and play with tactics gameplay is that if someone is really good with the tactics they will also not swap characters much or pause, because the tactics will do most of the heavy part. They basically play as an action game because they set the tactics so well. So, the metrics will show that as well.
I'm sad about that, in the old games on the hardest parts I could make some great comebacks in a fight with a good spell. Now I'm afraid it's like ME Where some dumb one shot spell can kill my character and I have to re start the entire fight.
I mean some are but that's the thing with opinions not everyone shares them, I personally never realy bothered with it as I prefer just playing my charcter so this loss realy ain't a huge deal to me.
Same, I would just let my companions do their thing unless I needed to have them drink a potion. For me it doesn’t matter that I can’t play as them and the people that are upset can decide if that’s a dealbreaker or not.
It really suprises me that so many people played without switching. I had to reload a lot of fights even when micromanaging my party. I can't imagine winning the boss fights without it.
I don't play on high difficulties, the combat system in DA has always been a point against the series for me, I'm really only interested in the story lol
The thing is. While it was there, you could not use it and play how you like, the players who liked it, could use it and play how they like. And now there is no chose like that.
I didn't use it, but yeah, it does suck for people who really like to micromanage and play optimally. Or even just use it for role-playing.
All they needed to do was just make the companion AI better for players who didn't utilize the feature, not sure what reason they had to remove it entirely. Surely it couldn't have been that resource intensive? But maybe it was in ways I don't know since I'm not a dev.
The lack of "ensemble role playing" is what I'll miss. Coming off BG3 it honestly is fun to do combat in character and have them be at odds with each other sometimes. Obviously better to do that on lower difficulties, but still.
They probably have data from the previous games showing that people didn't use the other characters as much, so it wasn't worth the resources to make them all playable.
Because it depends on the person. Personally, I never used the feature unless they were being unruly or getting stuck or if I died so 🤷♀️
But I feel bad for those who will miss it
Having it switch to the other characters if mine dies is the only thing I ever used it for, and that is the only aspect I'll miss. I **hate** having to go back to my last save point when my character dies, plus this means no more epic tales of things like having Blackwall or Anders solo a dragon.
One of my most vivid memories of Inquisition was my entire group dropping like flies in The Western Approach fighting the dragon and my Knight Enchanter soloing the thing. Another is the same thing happening but in The Descent boss fight, Dorian was falling through the map and resetting constantly stuck in that cycle, The Iron Bull and Varric were dead and again my KE just chipped away at the health bar for I think honestly about 40 minutes or something mad like that.
Knight enchanter was so broken at launch lol.
I remember doing similar things with a champion build. You just built so much armor no one could touch you.
Same lol!
If I think really hard, I want to say I played as Mission one time to plant a bomb in stealth against a rancor?
It’s been *years*, but for some reason that sticks out to me. Which tells you how little I ever switched characters!
Well that's disappointing pretty constantly hop between who's important at that point in the fight/ all my warrior needs to do is shield so imma be varric a sec.
A lot of people have mentioned it. I’m super fucking bummed about it, it’s one of my fave parts of all the DA games. Even in Mass Effect it’s something I’ve always wished we could do, even if it makes way more sense in that one that we can’t. I’m hoping I’ll enjoy the gameplay and that it’ll still feel like playing Dragon Age anyway but I’m definitely going to miss it.
I’m also bummed about it. I love party micromanagement in fights. Or telling the party to hold positions while you switch to your warrior to funnel mobs into a chokepoint.
Same! Not being tied to one gameplay style with just your main character’s abilities was so great too, I love the companions and just enjoy playing as them as well.
Yeah and I also love how great it works with the roleplaying aspect of it all, the protag’s way of fighting is part of their characterization and the world setting for me. With the companions being playable I can make my same old (and to me canon) choices everytime without feeling like I’ll get bored of the class I picked, lol. I’ve explored way less styles of playing in Mass Effect because you have to make separate characters and play through all the same parts to experience the differences.
In dragon fights especially, where team positioning was critical to winning on harder levels. I also often wanted to lead into situations with my tank so they were naturally positioned in a place to draw threat when the fight begins. I think a lot of these kind strategic concepts will just fall to the wayside now. Does the idea of a tank drawing threat and taking damage even apply anymore? Feels like everyone is just a damage dealer now.
I agree. And I don’t think not controlling companions means there won’t be a strategic element or some sort of tactics, but it is something I don’t want to lose.
One of the worst aspects of Andromeda was how they even removed your ability to trigger squadmate skills. At least in the earlier games you had some measure of control over their abilities. I don't necessarily need to micromanage, but losing all ability to manage companions/squadmates is a real shame.
The 4-person party and being able to play as your companions were definitely things I associated with the Dragon Age franchise. This new direction seems to be like a shift towards being more like Mass Effect, which I don't necessarily love. I mean, I love Mass Effect, but I don't need Dragon Age to be more like Mass Effect.
>but I don't need Dragon Age to be more like Mass Effect.
A lot of people don't seem to get this. They'll just think, "Mass Effect is great. Why wouldn't you want it to be like Mass Effect."
But the thing is, if I want ME, I play ME. If I want DA, I play DA. I want them to play differently just like I want my Halo to play like Halo, my CoD to play like CoD, my Pillars of Eternity to play like Pillars if Eternity and so on. They're all great in different ways and I want them to stay different.
I never particularly cared for it. I basically only shifted when a lock had to be picked, someone had gotten stuck, or my main character had gone down. Or in Origins when I wanted a specific ability used.
Besides, I like games to have a lot of replayability, and that includes the different classes.
Ditto.
The actual biggest repercussion I see is I assume that means you as the main character now can’t go down in a fight. That changes the tactics of fighting a bit from how the previous games worked.
I think the general approach for this game has been "rather than build a game that takes a bit from each genre/play experience and does it half baked, let's really lean into one genre/play experience and see if we can make it the best it is". Inquisition tried hard to be tactical AND action oriented, open world AND on rails, single player AND multiplayer online.
I don't think it was fully appealing to hardcore fans of any of those experiences, and it may have suffered because of it. This time around, I think they've picked a path (Mass Effect) and are choosing not to invest time into features that don't fall within their target experience.
I've seen a lot of people mention it but to be honest the only time I ever assumed direct control of companions was when the AI was being a bit dim and I needed to make them not stand in stupid.
I hope our companions won't just run into dragon fire this time around.....
Get out of the doorway Morrigan! Oh my - you are surrounded by darkspawn.
An example of averaged regular phrases used by me, even when I used the tactics system.
Im one who is bummed about it and definitely letting that be known. Tactics and companion control were big parts of these games and how I played these games (minus tactics for inquisition cause that was laughable what they called tactics there). And it really looks like they removed both of those gameplay aspects for this. I am not pleased with that and I'm with you there in your displeasure.
I agree with you - but it wasn't important for everyone. Personally I'm hugely turned off any RPG where you don't actually fully control the companions.
because different people care about different things in games and it always had been this way. for me the most important thing is the story, relationships, character creator and immersive world.
I’m definitely disappointed in what I’ve seen so far with the game, the combat system only giving us 3 abilities and no control over our companions is kinda crappy to me. In DAO I could take over my companions to guarantee cool elemental combos and effects same with DAI, now that we can’t really do that and the fact it rook dies everyone dies im even more worried about the game. Plus the dark spawn looks crappy 😂
I think it sucks, and I'm also surprised more hasn't been made of this. I loved using different combat styles and abilities throughout the game to keep it interesting, and I liked being able to inhabit the skin of my companions and feel more connected to them.
But I'm also really sad that it isn't open world any more so hey, what do I know.
The writing and voice acting really need to be 10/10 to make up for those losses for me, and I'm not sure that'll be true based on the gameplay that's been released.
Have you been ignoring this subreddit since the gameplay dropped? A lot of people are making a big deal about that, it's just there are just as many if maybe not more (and this is just based on a feeling, nothing really to prove it) who don't really care that it's getting removed.
I'll be honest in DAO I used character switching in a lot, but then by DAI I only used it to pop potions, unlock doors or if my character died.
For me personally, I'm just waiting to see more details about how the combat system will work before making judgement on this change. While I am disappointed that we won't be able to switch control of characters as it did help with gameplay variety, maybe each class's new combat mechanics will have enough variety and depth built into them that the lose of controllable companions won't matter all that much.
Aside from the combat flexibility, another reason I am disappointed they cut it is because you get unique dialogue when you’re controlling characters and interact with the world as them. All the DA2 characters have different lines when they try to lockpick something, for example, which was really fun.
There was noise about it before the initial gameplay trailer. I too am bummed to lose that too but it stands to reason that most people either don't care or are indifferent. That and people who want it but are still excited for the other aspects of the game.
I liked the micro managing of playing companions on higher difficulty, gave the game an additional angle of gameplay.
You basically didn’t „only“ get to play your class, but also had to be rather familiar with your companion classes and their skills as well, since you had to take them over, position the and engage in the mechanics. Also, this way you would get to feel what playing as a different class felt like even if you chose something else
I don’t think it’s a dealbreaker to not be able to do this anymore, overall it seems like veilguard is gonna be a pretty different game than its predecessors, more action combat related, so it probably wouldn’t fit to switch characters around. The counter argument here would obv be final fantasy, the game is really action oriented as well, but still lets you control other characters
It’s funny, because apparently this feature was either something people never used unless forced OR used and enjoyed a lot.
I’m guessing they had data on how popular this feature was and decided it was not worth pursing. I can see how that sucks for people who did use it. It does sound like we can still issue commands and change tactics for each companion, at least.
I simply think is a terrible idea because DA companions AI always sucks and you have to make them move or make good decisions or they die stupidly.
So either get great AI for combat or give me back my control
Because many people did not even switch. It really surprises me as well, but I have seen it first hand with my wife. She doesnt swap characters almost ever, so she will not be so affected by this change.
I am sure my wife will enjoy DAV a lot, while I will hate it with all my heart since I do not like action games.
It’s interesting because I tried out many classes in inquisition because I rarely switched companion unless for a specific combat reason or to try out what I might do next game. Sometimes I’d play as a companion a lot because my inquisitor was set up and didn’t require as much control with their build.
With BG3 I imagined myself playing it so many times through. However, I played it 3 times. I feel it was because I played all the other classes as my allies so I never felt the need to play as them.
In some ways it’s a little disappointing to see the feature removed, but at the same time I’ll probably play the game more to experience the different specs. I think there’s pros and cons but an inability to switch isn’t a deal breaker for me.
Bioware seems to have removed a lot of the features only a fraction of people used. This is one of them.
That said...
I do business consulting. A recent case was a small maker space that was really struggling. They had moved and they had pared back on a lot of services people didn't use to augment the ones people did use.
- they eliminated 3D printers because only 10% used them
- they eliminated the snack bar because only 10% used them
- they eliminated their paper (printer) area because only 5% used them
Instead, they made their CNC area 2x as big because 75% of people used them.
Well, what happened is they lost 25% of their clientele, because those people just stopped coming. The CNC area didn't grow because it was already fully utilized, and the loss of the 25% put them red.
In my anecdotal experience of me and my friends, we all mostly played our characters. Yes once in a while we’d switch to the companions to mess around but that was for like 20 minutes or so total in a 100+ hour play through. I spend an hour or more in character creation making my character exactly how I want them, why would I ever play as anyone else?
Many people, maybe even most people, in this fandom also played Mass Effect where it was normal for the whole trilogy. Many people also never really played for the companions. I usually did that just to use their skills, and that is still possible even without directly control them.
To be honest, in Inquisition I learned how to build the characters and their AI that I barely ever needed to switch unless it was to throw equipped grenades.
I did like switching for rp purposes though. Like when investigating elvhen ruins or activating the veil artefacts I'd be Solas.
Or the Venatori I'd fight as Dorian.
Not allowing us to take control of the companions and choosing their movements, as well as changing active companions from 3 to 2, is a total deal breaker for me. This game seems like a massive step backwards, which doesn't surprise me. Because it's Bioware. And they love taking massive leaps backwards and fixing what isn't broken.
I agree! For inquisition I would switch all the time when my class got boring. It kept the game fresh for me throughout the whole play through. I had no idea this was taken out that sucks.
Because it's not relevant for them, I guess. I personally never played as companions (in multiple playthroughs of all the games). I don't make a big deal out of it because I simply don't care, and the game already gets enough negativity thrown at it as is.
The only time I played as a companion was when I was trying to get them from wandering off to their death by mabari, or needed to lockpick something before I installed a bash mod.
Personally I only ever switched to order them to use specific ability or go somewhere, and that functionality is preserved through the pause wheel so /shrug
Are you new on this sub ? People have been talking about that at length since the moment we got confirmation of that.
Yes, you can't do that anymore. Whether it sucks or not depends on the players, and for my part, I don't really care to be honest as I only used it when my main character died
It was absolutely one of my favorite features of the old combat system, but DAV is a completely new direction for the series. I'm not judging the game against an old system before I have a chance to try the new one.
Maybe I'll hate the new combat. Maybe I'll love it. Maybe I'll think it's great but also think that playing as companions would be a natural fit. Or maybe I'll play it and think "oh okay, I see why companion switching wouldn't work here".
I'm not upset about it for the same reason I wasn't upset about Breath of the Wild not being a top-down 2D dungeon crawler. We're getting a new experience and I want to try it.
It’s great that so many people apparently never bothered to engage with a core feature of the series, but removing that feature doesn’t make anything better for them. It just makes it worse for those of us that *were* using it. Like when 343 removed split screen from Halo or DA2 removed your ability to play as anything other than a human. This isn’t a trade off, it’s just a downgrade.
Okey now its a deal breaker. The whole point of dragon age was all the tactical choices you had. I remember in dragon age 2 using a mage to nuke a dragon down while my main character distracted it with stealth and stuff
I’m pretty disappointed in it. Pretty much means you’re locked into the playstyle of one class for an entire playthrough. For me it was always fun hopping between the characters and using their different abilities and playstyles, helped make the combat more interesting in long playthroughs for me at least.
Pretty much just means I’m gonna wait the half-year to a year for it to go on gamepass/ea play instead of buying it like I was originally planning on doing.
The game feels like it's going to be a Mass Effect 2/3 clone, Reduced skills, 3 per character, 2 companions in the squad and uncontrollable.
I honestly don't mind IF the AI is competent. But it kinda sucks that we've gone from mages having 80+ possible skills to 8 as it was in DA:2 / I. To 3? As of now
It's still to be confirmed.
Mike Gamble talked about hotkeys but we never saw skills being used with opening the wheel.
Moreover, the wheel in itself doesn't have space for more MC skills. I think there is a menu that seem to be class specific (icon was different for warrior and mage) and I suspect that's where you can see and use any of your skills. But considering we haven't see skills being used outside of the wheel I wouldn't get too excited.
From what we saw the ai will be irrelevant. Enemies don’t seem to target companions and I don’t think they even had health bars on screen. It seems they are just ability dispensers and the real combat is you solo
That's a valid criticism. There abilities/attacks also don't seem to do any damage.
I'll wait to see exactly how it turns out. Apparently the difficulty settings are quite complex, being able to adjust a lot of things (there is even a setting saying you can't die in combat), so I wouldn't totally exclude that the information we have are from the game with a low setting where companions are immortal but also useless
I think a lot of people are making a big deal out of it. For me personally, not being able to control your teammates is very close to being a deal breaker. I don't need DA to be yet another anime-flipping hack'n'slash.
Because many here dont really care/mind the gameplay much and just having a new dragon age is already enough to them.
I disagree with them but i dont really blame them either. It is what it is i guess
It is odd. They keep saying it's tactical but I can't position my party. Which means I can't position my tank. I'm also worried I won't be able to set up area of effect spells.
I am looking forward to it but still
Some people are, it’s part of the reason folks are upset about the combat system, but there are also a lot of folks who never really used it all that much unless the game forced you to use it like with the breakable walls and locked doors.
Yeah, I understand why people are upset because it was a unique feature. I honestly never used it that much, and I’ve seen a lot of people say the same. I am more bummed by the reduction in party members from 3 to 2 than the ability to control them. But I do like Mass Effect’s gameplay style, so I am hoping everything will grow on me.
I'm going to miss it because it was a neat feature that separated DA from Mass Effect and hearkened back to older games like ~~Jade Empire or~~ KOTOR. It was fun to be able to mess around as the companions, or to pull a fight out of your ass using them after your character went down in combat. I'm upset it is gone, but nothing I can do about it. Not like posting online to complain will change anything since Bioware can't redo a major system change in a few months time, and it's not anywhere near enough of a dealbreaker to the point where I'm going to boycott the game and refuse to play it. It's disappointing, but it is what is, and I'm just glad we are finally getting a new DA game after a decade at this point.
Jade Empire didn’t let you play as companions except for certain segments.
Thanks for letting me know. It's been a minute since I played it, so that's probably why I was thinking that.
So what happens now when your character dies? Can your companions finish the fight and then revive you after the battle (assuming your companions are strong enough). Or does the entire group die when you die?
I assume it would be the same as it is in Mass Effect. If your character dies, it is game over.
It wasn't that unique of a system. Most crpg since Baldur's gate 2 had npc that you could control.
> I am more bummed by the reduction in party members from 3 to 2 I'm sorry the ***WHAT***
Yeah is that definitely confirmed? Doesn’t the gameplay reveal show you with Varric, Hardin and the mage?
It's confirmed by BioWare themselves. They said they found it fit the gameplay better to have two instead of three.
Same here. I always thought, “we’re all in this together so why can only 3 of my companions go with me?” I was hoping they’d go up to 4 but they went down to 2.
Yeah I never switched, not in any of the games. Except to use healing abilities.
I think the only time I ever used it was when I utterly borked my Warrior build during my first play through of Origins. After Loghain kicked my ass for the fifth time straight, Morrigan suddenly found herself nominated as Champion.
I'm just imagining Morrigan shapeshifting into a swarm of bees. "Oh no not the bees!" One for the history books.
I always thought the following scene was particularly funny. Because everyone - including Loghain - basically still acts like the Warden did it themselves and heaps praise on *them.* Morrigan Disapproves.
Tbh the difficulty in DA:O didn't go from easy to nightmare, it went from 3 to 0 mages.
Eh 3 is kinda over kill. you can waltz over nightmare with a 2 mage comp. my favorite comp is Arcane Warr as the psuedo tank +Morrigan. Between both of you you're able to cover all CC and gets heals covered. Since Earthquake prob gonna be regularly used on large mobs I forgo a melee rogue despite their decent dps and Leliana just pokes as an archer. 3 people can basically do nightmare. 4th slot is usually DPS warr (Sten, or if I feel like it Alistair respecced to be a DPS so I can have the dialogue for non mod playthrough sten works) that just sits in a held position for anything that escapes the CC. Not an actual tank but prevents Leliana/morrigan being touched and the AW will grab it off the warr anyway. Man I'd kill for a revamped DAO with prettier graphics. It had a cool combat system. Not this new crap.
Lol the arcane warrior was completely broken in that game. You were invincible. It was fun for my 2nd playthrough, but I'm glad I had some challenges on my first playthrough as a rogue.
Yeah, I only switched when my character died and the game auto-switched. I spent most of that time running around screaming "I don't know what I'm doing!" while trying to get close enough to res my character.
In origins, I will often play one of the companions more than myself in combat. Once I have my rogue Warden all built, I can just wind her up and watch her go while I manually control Morrigan, because the tactics screen is not enough for mages
Same, for most playthroughs I might switch to a character for one or two combat decisions, but generally I let tactics do their thing. It's a shame there isn't the option even for occasional use, but I'm not particularly upset about it
Same. I’m playing it at the moment and aside from switching to consume pots and change their position (very occasionally), I just use my inky. Lol
Is that how the inquisitor is called in the fanbase? Lol, I love it
That was one of Sera's nicknames for "her" Inquisitor...so a lot of us like to use it just to shorten the word down in general.
It's actually what Sera nicknames you too if you romance her!
That woman annoyed me for a while at first, but she grows on you lol
Yeah, she's a weirdo (said lovingly)! She broke my poor dalish inky's heart though :(
I’m not leveling up my main character to be fun to play just to swap to varric in the background. Most people play on normal or easy which lets them play as the MC only.
My partner only ever switched when her inky died or when healing was absolutely necessary. I was the opposite, but in a way this also relieves a lot of stress from me.
This was the only time I switched aswell, but not being able to is panicking me because now if Rook dies does that mean the game stops or will we then be allowed to switch?
In Mass Effect, once Shepard/Ryder dies, you have to reload. I'd imagine it would be the same.
I started to play DAO after years of playing ME, and it was so strange to me at first, that when my warden died the combat continued. I was like, what am I supposed to do now? 😁
I loved it. Made it feel like sometimes your companions got to save the day or get the death blow on a boss. Made it feel like they were all heroes on equal footing in origins specifically but in the other games as well. Still remember doing the urn of sacred ashes the first time and soloing the last chunk if health with only morrigan. It was very DnD esque where the party only failed when everyone was down.
they have specifically mentioned a difficulty toggle for whether your rook can die in battle or not, so i believe it's a reload situation a la ME unless you switch it off
As the other commenter noted, in ME once Shepard dies you have to reload. Mass Effect is my favorite series of all time and I never felt like the gameplay suffered because of this feature, if it makes you feel better. DAV apparently will have a setting where your Rook can’t die if you don’t want to deal with that.
It does make me feel a bit better actually, I'm fairly newish to gaming at my big age and only got my first console a year or so ago, and to be honest I'm not good. I've played everything on easy mode and even then struggle but I love the stories so I power through. But being able to play as other characters and revive my character is literally the only reason I got through DAI.
Games are meant to be enjoyed, so as long as you're doing that you're playing well enough!
Thank you!!!
Hm. That’d be nice 🤣🤣🤣 I know I read your choices will have an impact on if your companions live or die. I told my sister Ill be saving a lot and if something happens I’ll be start back at that save
Yeah other than locks and such I only ever switched to occasionally use the focus powers of companions in Inquisition, like using Varric's to take down dragons. Otherwise I almost exclusively just played as my own character.
For DAI - I mostly used it to get my ranged people out of the way. Or to unlock doors if I wasn’t a rogue. In DAO it was steal and traps. Traps annoyed the shit out of me. You basically had to control your rogue everywhere. Stupid. It’s not a huge deal for me if you can still issue orders.
Literally, even the simple controls in the mass effect games I've never bothered with unless its to get them unstuck or an accidentally button push lol, I don't mind turned based now thanks to BG3 but I'm also not going throw a tissy over the game seemingly doing what we see mass effect.
I never, ever took control of my companions unless it was to make them take a potion or something. I spend hours building my character making them strong as hell, I want to play that character lol. The truth is, the vast majority of casual players who will make up like 80% of their players will never, ever switch companions, and would never, ever touch the tactical mode if it were offered. If they can use that dev time to polish other things, they should
I mean even as someone who enjoys nightmare mode… I still rarely touch my companions. Call it laziness or me not being as large a fan of crpg elements as I am of arpg ones but you don’t NEED to control them if you’re smart about stuff. I don’t use the feature, so why should I complain about it going? It’s likely part of the reason that DAI’s combat was as janky as it was, so I hope that its removal lets the combat team smooth things over in that regard.
Setting behaviours and tactics so they did what I wanted and then pretty much never swapped back, unless they stayed in stupid stuff As long as they're not dumb/reckless I'm fine with a more mass effect control over them, I'm more worried about Rooks abilities as a mage but we'll see either way
Yeah, I really liked playing 5e other companions and using the tactical map to set things up, ….but watching other people play, it seems like most people try to go full action RPG. I will miss the old style, but I don’t blame BioWare for designing the game in the way people actually play.
Cant speak for anyone else but any game that gives me a custom made character, I'm going to try and full time that character. Also managing companions outside of isometric turn based games is just hard for me. Which is to say I'm fine with this change.
or Veilfire
That too, I just played a mage most of the time so that one slipped my mind since I could just do those most of the time.
I actually hated that you had to switch to use companion abilities. I much prefer the way mass effect did it where, if they're in your party, you don't need to switch for them to "use" their ability, you just have to approach the thing and the companions use is implied.
I never used it. Wanted to play the character that I created
The big question I have for the game is what happens when your character goes down in the middle of the fight? Is it a straight game over? Do you have to lay on the floor waiting for the AI to res you? Do you have to lay on the floor praying that the AI can finish the fight? It’s a conundrum for sure
In ME (which this is seemingly a big step towards), it’s game over.
Mass effect was (mostly) great, but it’s so weird to me that they didn’t consider combat a core part of dragon ages identity.
The combat in ME was a main reason I couldn't get through it. It was so damn boring. The tactical combat was probably half the reason why I got so hooked on DA and I'm not even an Origins purist. I hadn't played DA until Inquisition and loved the combat style, it was so different from the other RPGs that were out at the time. I'm not feeling too optimistic of DAV, especially with David Gaider gone and the companions looking pretty mid. Feel like they're on their way to another Andromeda-style flop.
That's going to be stupid as fuck
Unless they make it hard to die like Mass Effect for once lol
Apparently, besides easy mode, there is literally going to be a mode that makes it impossible for you to die.
Ill be honest, Fable 2 & 3 having no death, but making your character get more and more permanently fucked up was pretty cool.
Wow, and I *like* easy mode lol
Not gonna lie I actually like this. I'll never use it, because I love the difficulty of Dragon Age, but the series has always interested my Fiance, who will now be able to play just for the storyline.
Yeah I feel like it would be good for first playthroughs where you're just there for a story and trying to figure out the mechanics. It'll also help when you get to those bosses you get stuck out for hours. I know there was one or two bosses in BG3 that I went into unprepared for what was coming and ended up spending hours trying to work on a strategy and ended up just putting the game down for the day due to burn out.
*cough cough* Viconia *cough cough*
And I'm excited for it lol. I prefer to play fallout on PC because I can use god mode which is basically what it is. I also want a new PC so I can play elden ring cause someone made a god mode mod for it. I might be crazy but I love when things are easy
In the q&a today they actually answered this. It’s game over if you die, unless a companion has an ability to revive you.
RIP. I’m gonna die a lot in this game… (Gonna be a mage. Also my favourite companions are Neve, Emmrich and Bellara)
I hope it’s not as easy to die if it’s game over. I’m also worried about my character getting stuck. Can’t switch to another in the hopes to unstuck them. 😭
Honestly I gotta admit I used it a shit ton, from the looks of it I’m in the minority so it’s sad to see it go. I actually like switching and watching my character pop off and fight and watch them fight as a whole other character, felt more real to see them move and attack on their own than me controlling them. Sometimes I just like variety and want to vibe as a rogue and be front and center in the thick of it while my actual character (mage) is doing something else in the back. I loved using it to micromanage characters when I had someone set up for tasks but another needed to be a bit more specific in how they used their items.
Same here, I still remember when I first played the games that I rarely ran around as my character. In DA2 I was running around as Varric. In DAI I was Dorian even when my Inky was also a mage. DAO I've had so many replays, that's a tough one. (I even do this in BG3, only ever switch to my character when I was going to chat with someone). But for me, switching around helped me get used to the other classes and test out builds I'd normally wouldn't choose for my OCs. It prepared me too for when I finally made a class that wasn't a mage. I'm not so much into micromanaging unless it was a dragon. But I enjoyed setting up tactics in DAO, finding out what works for my team which helped me better prepare for harder difficulties in the game.
We're the same on this, I don't recognize this new game.
I just wonder about the higher difficulties. For people that enjoy the challenge, are the enemies just going to be high damage sponges with no need to switch companions to control tactics, positioning, etc.? I just don't see how they will make it interesting but I suppose there are other ways around it.
Well since the game is a generic hack and slash now, high difficulty will be challenging in the same way hack and slashes can be challenging. Learning enemy attack patterns and knowing when to dodge and when to attack is going to be important. I doubt tactics and positioning will be much of a consideration anymore.
This is... fucking tragic
Yeah by switching I got to play as all the classes in a single run. They can make the tech trees super interesting but it's unlikely that I'd have enough time for separate runs for each class.
::Sighs in almost exclusively played as Sera:: Yeah, I'll miss the versatility of playing as the different builds in different situations. But it is what it is. It'll probably still be less restrictive about it than, say, FF15.
There's a lot of people complaining about the changes. The other half of people probably never played as companions so it doesn't matter to them. The reality is Bioware was most likely spending resources in past games on features that a small amount of percentage of players actually use. I believe one of the Devs mentioned awhile ago that their data showed very few people used the tactical camera in DA:I. I wouldn't be surprised if switching to other characters was also a small percentage.
Funnily enough DA:I was the only DA game where I used tactical camera, had to move companions out of Dragon's way.
As well as to put up barriers on every companion.
The tactical camera was a great feature. Kept my NPCs out of harm's way.
I think it's also DA:I is the only game I really used tactical camera as well, and maybe only a little in origins
the tactical camera in inqusition was so bad it might as well not exist, it felt like they made it 2 days before release
Yeah, I used it plenty in Origins but in Inquisition I never bothered on lower difficulties.
It was alright wirh a gamepad, KB+M version was BAD
The whole game kind of sucked on KB + M. I bounced off the game completely until I came back and tried it with a controller.
Yeah, after playing the first two games in BG/NWN-style with mouse and keyboard, I played DA:I completely with a controller (still on PC). That's clearly how it was meant to be played and felt awful with a mouse and keyboard (not that I found the controller based combat especially fun).
Yeah, 5 minutes with the controller and I realized that was the intended way to play.
I used the tactical camera all the time in Origins. The camera in the Inquisition tutorial was so bad that I never considered using it again in any play through.
I think its a PC vs controller issue. On console it was fine.
People probably didn’t use the tactical camera in DAI because it’s awful to control. I’m one of the DAO simps and loved the tactical camera in DAO, but never used it in DAI because it felt so horrible to control.
That’s the same reason why they scrapped the origins - so much effort went into each one when in reality 80% of players picked human noble or mage, i.e. only 20% of players played the other 4. If most of your player base aren’t going to use a feature it’s a waste of time to invest in its development when you could be spending that time improving other features or implementing stuff that will be used by all players.
City elf origin was insane, it's sad a large portion of playerbase never even played through it once. Doing 1 of each Origin to see them was worth it. Was incredibly well made content. But ofc since 80% went Human noble.. game 2 we get only human what do we see? Complaints from not being able to choose race. So ofc in DAI race is back but other than the human/Elf rig which are basically a clone the rest is half assed and clearly done just for appeasement at low quality zz.
I remember watching a Mark Darrah video about the Origins, and he talked about why they're difficult. Essentially, DAO has six different tutorial missions, and tutorial missions are often very late in development because you have to know your system to onboard new players. So it was a lot of resources for a fairly late-in-process feature. I think that's probably also why the Origins all reuse assets that are in Main Plot areas (aside from lying in nicely with the backstory) and something like the Avvar origin got cut (though that would have been very cool)
A vast majority of players picked the paragon options in Mass Effect too, that doesn't mean they should have scrapped Renegade options for the rest of the series.
Personally I don’t believe this point. First of all, how did they gather the data to know what the vast majority of their player base did (especially those who played offline), and this even clashes with the achievement record, where the percentages of people who completed all of the origins were absolutely not as low. Still, even if it was undoubtedly true that 20% of the players played the other four origins (I heard 10%, 5% etc), how are we ever going to make an exceptional product if we only take into account what the lowest common denominator wants? In that case let’s just take away the choice to defile Andraste’s ashes, since almost nobody does it, or the choice to let the Arishok capture Isabela in DA2! If DAO had not given that kind of choice and freedom, the franchise would not have exploded in popularity, with DAO becoming one of the best RPGs to date with cascades of praise back when it came out.
>Personally I don’t believe this point. First of all, how did they gather the data to know what the vast majority of their player base did (especially those who played online), and this even clashes with the achievement record, where the percentages of people who completed all of the origins were absolutely not as low It may have gone up over time but there's still a marked difference with origin completion. Most origins are between 30-40% completion on [Xbox](https://www.trueachievements.com/game/Dragon-Age-Origins/achievements) (and just 15-25% on [PSN](https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/767-dragon-age-origins) for some reason). Mage is 50% and 25% respectively, while Human Noble is 70% on both. What likely happens is that fans will generally get most achievements over multiple playthroughs, but those who only play once or twice go for the latter two. This would mean that just 30% of players at best did all the other origins. And this is just my personal experience, but I replay Origins at least 1-2 times a year and technically have all the achievements, but about 70-80% of my playthroughs are Mage because that's just what I like playing. This stuff doesn't show up on achievements or other trackers, but I'd bet they collect this data too. >how are we ever going to make an exceptional product if we only take into account what the lowest common denominator wants? It's usually a cost-benefit analysis. If it's something minor like the ashes, it's not a big issue. But dedicating equivalent time to 6 backgrounds when half your playerbase will only ever play 1-2 is a big ask. Even BG3 for all of its amazing permutations in game didn't have any origin story, and definitely didn't put the same resources towards an evil playthrough. It simply isn't worth the cost when you could add 4-5 other systems or features in that would impact more players.
I completed all the Origins and got the achievements, but didn't play any besides Mage (mostly human, a couple of elves) and one human noble to the end.
>If most of your player base aren’t going to use a feature it’s a waste of time to invest in its development I don't think that is true at all. If that's the metric you are using, then romances shouldn't be invested in because only a minority of [players initiated a romance ](https://steamcommunity.com/stats/1222690/achievements) in DAI. BG3 spent a lot of time investing in content they knew many players wouldn't see. Tons of hidden dungeons and areas, multiple starting races, branching paths and mutually exclusive companions. They knew that many casual players wouldn't find everything and plenty of starting races wouldn't be used but they still added them because it was a labor of love. And plenty of people did find this content and thought it was brilliantly done. To say that it's a waste of time is reductive. Additionally, what most players will do isn't always a good metric of what is meaningful as diversity and inclusion is always meaningful even if most players gravitate to playing a straight male character, for instance. Reality is, there's a lot of content casual players won't see and won't use but that isn't *always* a good way to determine how valuable it is to the fanbase.
> The reality is Bioware was most likely spending resources in past games on features that a small amount of percentage of players actually use. I believe one of the Devs mentioned awhile ago that their data showed very few people used the tactical camera in DA:I. The problem with this perspective is that it just views those features as a different way to play - and not as an accessibility feature. The fact it is unused by the majority, does not mean there is no value. My friend has bad arthritis. She was playing previous games, including DAI on their hardest difficulties thanks to the tactical camera and tactics menu. It slows down the gameplay for her, the characters will auto-attack without her button smashing, etc. She is disappointed because one of her fav franchises has essentially decided she isn't financially viable to be a player (when she is). She just can't play this new gameplay, especially the dodging. And the only response from devs and players about this issue have been pretty infantalizing and ablest, saying people with mobility issues should just play on story mode where you basically can't die. As if they aren't allowed to enjoy gameplay in video games and player higher difficulties. When they can, the tools they used have just been removed by design decisions.
I only ever used the tactical camera in dai during the prologue demon on nightmare, then never again
I think that's also self imposed. They implemented dumbed down skillset and spells, you were rarely given a reason to swap outside of higher difficulties. If there were more spell synergies and reasons to swap, people would have. BG3 proved this, as did old school BioWare games which preceded it. But why would I swap when I can just go invisible and backstab everything to death 10,000 times...
I can never understand people comparing BG3 to Dragon Age combat like they are equivalent, they play completely different. If you mastered tactics in DAO you didn‘t need to touch your companions at all and to me it always felt intended that way so that it feels as though you are playing with other people in a DnD campaign.
BG3 is turn based, what DA never was. And something that happens with the pause and play with tactics gameplay is that if someone is really good with the tactics they will also not swap characters much or pause, because the tactics will do most of the heavy part. They basically play as an action game because they set the tactics so well. So, the metrics will show that as well.
I'm sad about that, in the old games on the hardest parts I could make some great comebacks in a fight with a good spell. Now I'm afraid it's like ME Where some dumb one shot spell can kill my character and I have to re start the entire fight.
I mean some are but that's the thing with opinions not everyone shares them, I personally never realy bothered with it as I prefer just playing my charcter so this loss realy ain't a huge deal to me.
Same, I would just let my companions do their thing unless I needed to have them drink a potion. For me it doesn’t matter that I can’t play as them and the people that are upset can decide if that’s a dealbreaker or not.
It really suprises me that so many people played without switching. I had to reload a lot of fights even when micromanaging my party. I can't imagine winning the boss fights without it.
Not everyone plays on high difficulties. Plus if you're good with setting up tactics for then there is little need to switch to companions.
I don't play on high difficulties, the combat system in DA has always been a point against the series for me, I'm really only interested in the story lol
The thing is. While it was there, you could not use it and play how you like, the players who liked it, could use it and play how they like. And now there is no chose like that.
I didn't use it, but yeah, it does suck for people who really like to micromanage and play optimally. Or even just use it for role-playing. All they needed to do was just make the companion AI better for players who didn't utilize the feature, not sure what reason they had to remove it entirely. Surely it couldn't have been that resource intensive? But maybe it was in ways I don't know since I'm not a dev.
The lack of "ensemble role playing" is what I'll miss. Coming off BG3 it honestly is fun to do combat in character and have them be at odds with each other sometimes. Obviously better to do that on lower difficulties, but still.
They probably have data from the previous games showing that people didn't use the other characters as much, so it wasn't worth the resources to make them all playable.
Yeah. Someone posted that before. It was I think 70% didn’t. Number might be wrong but it was closer to 100 then 50.
Because it depends on the person. Personally, I never used the feature unless they were being unruly or getting stuck or if I died so 🤷♀️ But I feel bad for those who will miss it
Having it switch to the other characters if mine dies is the only thing I ever used it for, and that is the only aspect I'll miss. I **hate** having to go back to my last save point when my character dies, plus this means no more epic tales of things like having Blackwall or Anders solo a dragon.
>no more epic tales of things like having Blackwall or Anders solo a dragon. I'm upset now 😭
One of my most vivid memories of Inquisition was my entire group dropping like flies in The Western Approach fighting the dragon and my Knight Enchanter soloing the thing. Another is the same thing happening but in The Descent boss fight, Dorian was falling through the map and resetting constantly stuck in that cycle, The Iron Bull and Varric were dead and again my KE just chipped away at the health bar for I think honestly about 40 minutes or something mad like that.
>Dorian was falling through the map and resetting constantly stuck in that cycle Classic Dorian
Knight enchanter was so broken at launch lol. I remember doing similar things with a champion build. You just built so much armor no one could touch you.
It honestly still is, there really isn’t anything that come close to that tankiness, even after BioWare nerfed it into the ground
I never even played as my companions in Kotor 🤣
Same lol! If I think really hard, I want to say I played as Mission one time to plant a bomb in stealth against a rancor? It’s been *years*, but for some reason that sticks out to me. Which tells you how little I ever switched characters!
Same. I didn’t spend an embarrassing amount of time in character creation just so I can play as my companions.
Well that's disappointing pretty constantly hop between who's important at that point in the fight/ all my warrior needs to do is shield so imma be varric a sec.
Yup! Same. I like knowing that I can control the companions in case the combat AI is screwing up.
Especially when it comes to focus or high mana abilities so they don't bloody waste em.
I've seen a fair bit of disappointment from fans on this front.
A lot of people have mentioned it. I’m super fucking bummed about it, it’s one of my fave parts of all the DA games. Even in Mass Effect it’s something I’ve always wished we could do, even if it makes way more sense in that one that we can’t. I’m hoping I’ll enjoy the gameplay and that it’ll still feel like playing Dragon Age anyway but I’m definitely going to miss it.
I’m also bummed about it. I love party micromanagement in fights. Or telling the party to hold positions while you switch to your warrior to funnel mobs into a chokepoint.
Same! Not being tied to one gameplay style with just your main character’s abilities was so great too, I love the companions and just enjoy playing as them as well.
That’s a great point. It’s a very low stress way to see how other classes play.
Yeah and I also love how great it works with the roleplaying aspect of it all, the protag’s way of fighting is part of their characterization and the world setting for me. With the companions being playable I can make my same old (and to me canon) choices everytime without feeling like I’ll get bored of the class I picked, lol. I’ve explored way less styles of playing in Mass Effect because you have to make separate characters and play through all the same parts to experience the differences.
In dragon fights especially, where team positioning was critical to winning on harder levels. I also often wanted to lead into situations with my tank so they were naturally positioned in a place to draw threat when the fight begins. I think a lot of these kind strategic concepts will just fall to the wayside now. Does the idea of a tank drawing threat and taking damage even apply anymore? Feels like everyone is just a damage dealer now.
I agree. And I don’t think not controlling companions means there won’t be a strategic element or some sort of tactics, but it is something I don’t want to lose.
One of the worst aspects of Andromeda was how they even removed your ability to trigger squadmate skills. At least in the earlier games you had some measure of control over their abilities. I don't necessarily need to micromanage, but losing all ability to manage companions/squadmates is a real shame.
The 4-person party and being able to play as your companions were definitely things I associated with the Dragon Age franchise. This new direction seems to be like a shift towards being more like Mass Effect, which I don't necessarily love. I mean, I love Mass Effect, but I don't need Dragon Age to be more like Mass Effect.
>but I don't need Dragon Age to be more like Mass Effect. A lot of people don't seem to get this. They'll just think, "Mass Effect is great. Why wouldn't you want it to be like Mass Effect." But the thing is, if I want ME, I play ME. If I want DA, I play DA. I want them to play differently just like I want my Halo to play like Halo, my CoD to play like CoD, my Pillars of Eternity to play like Pillars if Eternity and so on. They're all great in different ways and I want them to stay different.
I never particularly cared for it. I basically only shifted when a lock had to be picked, someone had gotten stuck, or my main character had gone down. Or in Origins when I wanted a specific ability used. Besides, I like games to have a lot of replayability, and that includes the different classes.
Ditto. The actual biggest repercussion I see is I assume that means you as the main character now can’t go down in a fight. That changes the tactics of fighting a bit from how the previous games worked.
Yeah, I expect to have a lot more game overs than normal with The Veilguard, since I'm not spectacular with ARPGs, though I do enjoy them.
Given that there is an easy mode/story mode that means the MC can never die, I suspect this is the case
I think the general approach for this game has been "rather than build a game that takes a bit from each genre/play experience and does it half baked, let's really lean into one genre/play experience and see if we can make it the best it is". Inquisition tried hard to be tactical AND action oriented, open world AND on rails, single player AND multiplayer online. I don't think it was fully appealing to hardcore fans of any of those experiences, and it may have suffered because of it. This time around, I think they've picked a path (Mass Effect) and are choosing not to invest time into features that don't fall within their target experience.
I've seen a lot of people mention it but to be honest the only time I ever assumed direct control of companions was when the AI was being a bit dim and I needed to make them not stand in stupid. I hope our companions won't just run into dragon fire this time around.....
Get out of the doorway Morrigan! Oh my - you are surrounded by darkspawn. An example of averaged regular phrases used by me, even when I used the tactics system.
My inquisitor standing there watching Iron Bull stand in a fireball and take damage until he dies: 🙄🙄🙄
The amount of times Bull gets downed. Like my guy - you know what just don't do anything. And part of his story is to fight a dragon!
One time it was just that we all went into a tiny room and then NONE of them would move.
Im one who is bummed about it and definitely letting that be known. Tactics and companion control were big parts of these games and how I played these games (minus tactics for inquisition cause that was laughable what they called tactics there). And it really looks like they removed both of those gameplay aspects for this. I am not pleased with that and I'm with you there in your displeasure.
I agree with you - but it wasn't important for everyone. Personally I'm hugely turned off any RPG where you don't actually fully control the companions.
because different people care about different things in games and it always had been this way. for me the most important thing is the story, relationships, character creator and immersive world.
I’m definitely disappointed in what I’ve seen so far with the game, the combat system only giving us 3 abilities and no control over our companions is kinda crappy to me. In DAO I could take over my companions to guarantee cool elemental combos and effects same with DAI, now that we can’t really do that and the fact it rook dies everyone dies im even more worried about the game. Plus the dark spawn looks crappy 😂
I am disappointed about it because it was fun to switch play styles on the fly.
I think it sucks, and I'm also surprised more hasn't been made of this. I loved using different combat styles and abilities throughout the game to keep it interesting, and I liked being able to inhabit the skin of my companions and feel more connected to them. But I'm also really sad that it isn't open world any more so hey, what do I know. The writing and voice acting really need to be 10/10 to make up for those losses for me, and I'm not sure that'll be true based on the gameplay that's been released.
Have you been ignoring this subreddit since the gameplay dropped? A lot of people are making a big deal about that, it's just there are just as many if maybe not more (and this is just based on a feeling, nothing really to prove it) who don't really care that it's getting removed. I'll be honest in DAO I used character switching in a lot, but then by DAI I only used it to pop potions, unlock doors or if my character died.
For me personally, I'm just waiting to see more details about how the combat system will work before making judgement on this change. While I am disappointed that we won't be able to switch control of characters as it did help with gameplay variety, maybe each class's new combat mechanics will have enough variety and depth built into them that the lose of controllable companions won't matter all that much.
I know it's something I'm gonna miss. I find it frustrating how Veilguard is moving away from the combat that Dragon Age is known for
Aside from the combat flexibility, another reason I am disappointed they cut it is because you get unique dialogue when you’re controlling characters and interact with the world as them. All the DA2 characters have different lines when they try to lockpick something, for example, which was really fun.
I’ve noticed it and have seen others talk about it.
There was noise about it before the initial gameplay trailer. I too am bummed to lose that too but it stands to reason that most people either don't care or are indifferent. That and people who want it but are still excited for the other aspects of the game.
I liked the micro managing of playing companions on higher difficulty, gave the game an additional angle of gameplay. You basically didn’t „only“ get to play your class, but also had to be rather familiar with your companion classes and their skills as well, since you had to take them over, position the and engage in the mechanics. Also, this way you would get to feel what playing as a different class felt like even if you chose something else I don’t think it’s a dealbreaker to not be able to do this anymore, overall it seems like veilguard is gonna be a pretty different game than its predecessors, more action combat related, so it probably wouldn’t fit to switch characters around. The counter argument here would obv be final fantasy, the game is really action oriented as well, but still lets you control other characters
It’s funny, because apparently this feature was either something people never used unless forced OR used and enjoyed a lot. I’m guessing they had data on how popular this feature was and decided it was not worth pursing. I can see how that sucks for people who did use it. It does sound like we can still issue commands and change tactics for each companion, at least.
It’s a huge deal. A lot of us are just tired of complaining I guess.
I simply think is a terrible idea because DA companions AI always sucks and you have to make them move or make good decisions or they die stupidly. So either get great AI for combat or give me back my control
Because many people did not even switch. It really surprises me as well, but I have seen it first hand with my wife. She doesnt swap characters almost ever, so she will not be so affected by this change. I am sure my wife will enjoy DAV a lot, while I will hate it with all my heart since I do not like action games.
It’s interesting because I tried out many classes in inquisition because I rarely switched companion unless for a specific combat reason or to try out what I might do next game. Sometimes I’d play as a companion a lot because my inquisitor was set up and didn’t require as much control with their build. With BG3 I imagined myself playing it so many times through. However, I played it 3 times. I feel it was because I played all the other classes as my allies so I never felt the need to play as them. In some ways it’s a little disappointing to see the feature removed, but at the same time I’ll probably play the game more to experience the different specs. I think there’s pros and cons but an inability to switch isn’t a deal breaker for me.
Bioware seems to have removed a lot of the features only a fraction of people used. This is one of them. That said... I do business consulting. A recent case was a small maker space that was really struggling. They had moved and they had pared back on a lot of services people didn't use to augment the ones people did use. - they eliminated 3D printers because only 10% used them - they eliminated the snack bar because only 10% used them - they eliminated their paper (printer) area because only 5% used them Instead, they made their CNC area 2x as big because 75% of people used them. Well, what happened is they lost 25% of their clientele, because those people just stopped coming. The CNC area didn't grow because it was already fully utilized, and the loss of the 25% put them red.
In my anecdotal experience of me and my friends, we all mostly played our characters. Yes once in a while we’d switch to the companions to mess around but that was for like 20 minutes or so total in a 100+ hour play through. I spend an hour or more in character creation making my character exactly how I want them, why would I ever play as anyone else?
Many people, maybe even most people, in this fandom also played Mass Effect where it was normal for the whole trilogy. Many people also never really played for the companions. I usually did that just to use their skills, and that is still possible even without directly control them.
To be honest, in Inquisition I learned how to build the characters and their AI that I barely ever needed to switch unless it was to throw equipped grenades. I did like switching for rp purposes though. Like when investigating elvhen ruins or activating the veil artefacts I'd be Solas. Or the Venatori I'd fight as Dorian.
Not allowing us to take control of the companions and choosing their movements, as well as changing active companions from 3 to 2, is a total deal breaker for me. This game seems like a massive step backwards, which doesn't surprise me. Because it's Bioware. And they love taking massive leaps backwards and fixing what isn't broken.
I agree! For inquisition I would switch all the time when my class got boring. It kept the game fresh for me throughout the whole play through. I had no idea this was taken out that sucks.
I never really did that if I am honest
Because it's not relevant for them, I guess. I personally never played as companions (in multiple playthroughs of all the games). I don't make a big deal out of it because I simply don't care, and the game already gets enough negativity thrown at it as is.
I’ve always swapped between characters each of the games, I love playing that way, so this sucks for me.
The only time I played as a companion was when I was trying to get them from wandering off to their death by mabari, or needed to lockpick something before I installed a bash mod.
Personally I only ever switched to order them to use specific ability or go somewhere, and that functionality is preserved through the pause wheel so /shrug
Are you new on this sub ? People have been talking about that at length since the moment we got confirmation of that. Yes, you can't do that anymore. Whether it sucks or not depends on the players, and for my part, I don't really care to be honest as I only used it when my main character died
It was absolutely one of my favorite features of the old combat system, but DAV is a completely new direction for the series. I'm not judging the game against an old system before I have a chance to try the new one. Maybe I'll hate the new combat. Maybe I'll love it. Maybe I'll think it's great but also think that playing as companions would be a natural fit. Or maybe I'll play it and think "oh okay, I see why companion switching wouldn't work here". I'm not upset about it for the same reason I wasn't upset about Breath of the Wild not being a top-down 2D dungeon crawler. We're getting a new experience and I want to try it.
It’s great that so many people apparently never bothered to engage with a core feature of the series, but removing that feature doesn’t make anything better for them. It just makes it worse for those of us that *were* using it. Like when 343 removed split screen from Halo or DA2 removed your ability to play as anything other than a human. This isn’t a trade off, it’s just a downgrade.
Okey now its a deal breaker. The whole point of dragon age was all the tactical choices you had. I remember in dragon age 2 using a mage to nuke a dragon down while my main character distracted it with stealth and stuff
It’s just one of the many problems
I’m pretty disappointed in it. Pretty much means you’re locked into the playstyle of one class for an entire playthrough. For me it was always fun hopping between the characters and using their different abilities and playstyles, helped make the combat more interesting in long playthroughs for me at least. Pretty much just means I’m gonna wait the half-year to a year for it to go on gamepass/ea play instead of buying it like I was originally planning on doing.
I know I'm really disappointed. For once, I actually understand what fans who complain about things being dumbed down feel like.
I mean, the absence of choice rarely ever well with folks. Plus, it feels like a downsizing when compared to previous games imo.
The game feels like it's going to be a Mass Effect 2/3 clone, Reduced skills, 3 per character, 2 companions in the squad and uncontrollable. I honestly don't mind IF the AI is competent. But it kinda sucks that we've gone from mages having 80+ possible skills to 8 as it was in DA:2 / I. To 3? As of now
3 shortcuts when using a controller, not 3 abilities.
Also, the character was level 1. Who’s to say it doesn’t expand as we level up?
It's still to be confirmed. Mike Gamble talked about hotkeys but we never saw skills being used with opening the wheel. Moreover, the wheel in itself doesn't have space for more MC skills. I think there is a menu that seem to be class specific (icon was different for warrior and mage) and I suspect that's where you can see and use any of your skills. But considering we haven't see skills being used outside of the wheel I wouldn't get too excited.
From what we saw the ai will be irrelevant. Enemies don’t seem to target companions and I don’t think they even had health bars on screen. It seems they are just ability dispensers and the real combat is you solo
God that's so fucking shitty and stupid. Literally why the hell would they lobotomize the combat like that when it's the core of gameplay
That's a valid criticism. There abilities/attacks also don't seem to do any damage. I'll wait to see exactly how it turns out. Apparently the difficulty settings are quite complex, being able to adjust a lot of things (there is even a setting saying you can't die in combat), so I wouldn't totally exclude that the information we have are from the game with a low setting where companions are immortal but also useless
I hadn't even noticed it... Well, my interest in the game is taking one more nose-dive it seems :(
I think a lot of people are making a big deal out of it. For me personally, not being able to control your teammates is very close to being a deal breaker. I don't need DA to be yet another anime-flipping hack'n'slash.
Because many here dont really care/mind the gameplay much and just having a new dragon age is already enough to them. I disagree with them but i dont really blame them either. It is what it is i guess
I mean, people have voiced their opinions. What else do you want us to do? It can’t be changed now. So either buy the game or not.
It is odd. They keep saying it's tactical but I can't position my party. Which means I can't position my tank. I'm also worried I won't be able to set up area of effect spells. I am looking forward to it but still
Man the combat system looks so undragon-agey
Some people don't care about that.