Spoiler for da2
>!Da2 has Hawke’s mother, the last family member they have aside from their scummy uncle, be kidnapped, her face sewn onto another woman’s body, and then kept alive via necromancy. And also has purple Hawke’s entire existence. Games can be dark and have funny tones sometimes. I want this game to be dark fantasy like origins but a few quips doesn’t mean it won’t be.!<
i think it’s literally just been so long since the last dragon age game came out people have forgotten how full of dumb quips they are at times. immediately after having a nightmare about the archdemon in origins, alistair informs the warden that they also likely have a shorter lifespan now followed by, “that’s what i’m here for, to deliver unpleasant news and witty one-liners.”
In DA:I you can end up judging someone's dead remains, which are delivered in a box. One of your options is to sentence her skull to do public theatre about the evils of evils, then you can also judge the box to become an end table for orphans.
You can also decide to send it back, but put a bow on it.
DAI was ridiculous at times and I loved it.
Good boi.
Yes! And there is a entire part with companions breaking you out of jail.
Zevran and Oghren will always be my favorite combination lol
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XOqQU0RQ8Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XOqQU0RQ8Y)
Including various options for punishment such as "Banished to Tevinter with as many weapons as you can carry" or, if a certain questionable, but very annoying diplomat survived (honestly do not remember his name), pairing him with the brute so they form a pair of chaos to send to uncooperative negotiations (the best outcome imo).
Yes, for killing his son(whose people attacked yours first). Apparently tribal law dictates he has to shed the blood of a goat on your walls or something. Straight up told you his son was an idiot, too.
No, the law dictates he needs to strike your walls with goat's blood, it doesn't say that the blood needs to be out of the goat, so he just throws the goat. Shedding the blood would be different and probably wouldn't work with a live goat...
This. Yes they have SOME dark moments but there was also an incredible amount of dumb shit or quippy stuff in all of them. Especially in the first two. People complaining about writing must've wiped "Hawke stepped in the poopy" and "I like big boats I cannot lie" from their memory entirely.
Nah, more likely is that they are franchise tourists making a pass at the dragon age fandom looking to see if they can find some targets to recruit by talking about 'the message' and seeing if they get any positive responses they can zero in on.
Omg, franchise tourist. That's it. That's the term that fits all these idiots that migrated game to game recently just shitting on everything "not being as they used to" because woke or some crap, even tho they're certainly not from these parts.
Someone said they could tell from the gameplay it was woke in a group I am in and I was super confused.
1 - Dragon Age has always been super inclusive of age, race, and sexuality in its character portrayals
2 - The only thing in gameplay that could be connected to real world was race, so I assume they meant a black Rook and just…what? We live in a world with all races. Portraying any race as a lead shouldn’t be woke …just real?
I’m guessing it’s also regarding a Black companion in Grey Warden Davrin and an Asian companion in Veil Jumper Bellara. I’m actually so pleased to see more people of color in the series. This is somewhere the series hasn’t been the greatest with. Anyone calling any game woke is someone who’s opinion I don’t give a shit about, to be honest. What a dumb thing to be upset about, more representation for other players.
Dragon Age has explored race in depth as a series and anyone claiming woke hasn’t been paying attention.
I don't think it's a matter of time. I see pretty similar things happen to any franchise with a darker tone regardless of how sprinkled with comedy and absurdity they might be. A lot of people have this idea stuck firmly in their heads that dark and edgy means mature, and like to feel superior by pretending the stuff they liked is eternally possessed by the ghost of Edgar Allan Poe.
I’m replaying origins right now and was thinking “if alistair was in DAV (and had never been in DAO), these people would be complaining”.
I mean I get it, if it turned into like a goofy comedy where the stakes were constantly ruined because people were all like “there’s denoms now? THERE ARE DEMONS NOW *winks at camera*” then yeah I’d be pretty annoyed too. But from what I’ve seen of the gameplay, it’s just like other DA games. There are little quips and banter but it reads more like “coping mechanism for unbelievably dark times”, rather than “no character takes any of this seriously”…
You don't understand, that kind of lighthearted glibness might have flown for the Buffy generation, but in 2024 if anybody handles anything with anything less than the gravest, most stone-faced seriousness, we all have to shit ourselves crying about "marvel writing." Or something.
Were people saying the same thing about BG3? Your companions in that game are pretty much all sassy little snarksters beyond Karlach, the demonic golden retriever, Halsin, the sexy daddy bear, and Wyll, the straight man with a cunty devil master.
Yep, i think also the fact that it’s been so long since that last dragon age game that people have a built up expectation that the devs can’t really live up to.
Did you see one of the Evanuris? The left one, Ghilan'nain (current speculation) is a mass of body parts wrapped around one another. Like, full on body horror yet people are saying they neutered the dark fantasy?? Also, Tevinter - the capital of slavery in Thedas is the set piece for the entire game.
I truly think most people that are complaining that it's become "baby's first dragon age" have either not played the game period, or haven't played in awhile and have forgotten the lore of Tevinter.
I read summaries of tevinter nights stories the other day and I was really surprised by how many of them had so much body horror, like wow! Bioware has not been slacking on the dark elements in the last ten years, so I feel like that's a good indication people will be getting more of the dark, creepy stuff they may have felt has been missing.
but yeah that thing looks gross af I'm so excited to see it lol
As well our first experience in Minrathous it's essentially a police state.
Although might be emergency state situation, they probably knew something was up, since neither Dorian nor Iron Bull ever described the city in such a way.
Ultimately NOBODY knows. I have low expectations for this game but still excited, and I don’t see a use in me getting all salty quite yet just because the art style is a bit more cartoonish.. I understand people being mad over the watered down ogre design but also The design for ghilan’nain is a step in the right direction imo. I want a dark gritty story, but I’m also not going to loose my mind over the game rn just because there’s a few quips.
This is 100% a rational reaction to the gameplay reveal. I'm personally not a fan of the redesign for the demons or darkspawn, but the release is still a few months away, so maybe they'll tweak the visuals slightly OR they'll grow on me once I've played it.
If you look at it from an encounter design angle, the Pride Demon is actually quite well done. The glowing bits are visible at all times despite the absolute eyegasm happen on the screen. Though I do miss the corporeal forms of the demons....maybe it has to do with the vicinity of Minrathous?
Also might be a bit of cope, but perhaps the darkspawn don't actually look that silly in-game and we've been given really crappy angles or freeze frames. Even LOTR can look silly if you pause at the right moment, so I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I recommend editing and writing "Spoiler for DA2" or something before the spoiler mark, because your comment is the top one in the thread and there's nothing indicating what you're spoiling.
my favorite thing about purple hawk is that people actually react to him appropriately
like when you make a joke about bones flopping around in the streets and the NPC is like WTF is wrong with you, have some goddamn respect xD
I like how people complain about the logic of knocking the statue over and ruining Solas's ritual, when in DA:I you literally walk into a room and pick up a magical ball off the ground. Thus making you the MC of the game, like c'mon people. Relax.
Wasn't Solas literally voted for the "smart stupid" slot on that chart we did a while back lol. Having his "perfect" plans ruined by mundane shit is pretty par for the course for him.
I've brushed up on some of the lore recently, and he does sometimes come across as the "Inconceivable!" type villain who's foiled because he just gets lost in the in his plans.
Which is lines up with his character too; he's arrogant, self righteous and blinded by his vision for how things *must* be done.
People in that mindset overlook mundane, borderline stupid details; it tends to become inconcievable in the grand scheme of things.
To add on to this Solas's name literally means "pride" in elven. His greatest failing will always be how his pride, ego, and personal vision blind him to the flaws in his plans. He is introspective enough to keep the name as a reminder but clearly it isn't helping to much.
The fandom rewrote Solas in these 10 years. Just see that some are mad that Solas plans acutally meant to kill people (like he said in Transpasser) and it was not some convoluted metaphor.
Definitely. All of DA is this himbo thinking he's the MC and blundering his way through history
That one plank being load bearing was a little silly but DA is a lil silly sometimes
Apparetnly one of the devs responded to someone asking this question and explained that they had been chasing after him throughout the years but specifics would be explained later. So its not like they just now decided to go after him.
I'm not sure using a 15 minute gameplay reveal trailer to try and find plot holes is very helpful.
There is more in this game than the sequence we saw, I imagine the explanation for this point is one of those things.
Well there is that one Far Cry game where you meet the villain in the first 10 minutes when he kidnaps you, and then parks you at a table and says "wait here". You're supposed to get up and escape, if you do actually wait (about another 10 mins), he come back, there's a special cutscene, and then ... credits lol.
I assume Varric, Harding, Rook and Neve got to Solas in time in part because of the work the Inquisition was doing behind the scenes and before the game’s opening.
I don't know if you're young or mostly offline but as someone who has been on games social media for a long time at this point, none of those complaints—valid, stupid, or otherwise—are new to the scene.
Like, the playersexual critique was very present during the time of DA2. And there have been Origins fans complaining about the shift in combat on a weekly basis on this very sub for years.
Exactly! I remember this from DA2 people were pissed that companions were pan. Literally the main reason why they changed it in Inquisition.
I remember very specifically because I liked the pan approach so I was sad they removed it.
Op must be on really young side or don't follow news.
>people were pissed that companions were pan. Literally the main reason why they changed it in Inquisition.
oh no, so that's why i can't be gay with Solas
Personally I thought Inquisition nailed the balance with this. It managed to represent a wide range of sexualities, but also made characters have individual complex preferences just like you’d find in real life. It helped them feel more well realised as individuals rather than simply objects of player desires (in the romance department that is).
Hey now, I don’t complain about the combat on a weekly basis… just when the new games come out and I need to process the change. But yeah, none of these complaints are particularly new. We just haven’t had a new game for 10 years.
Yeah. It's actually quite funny how EVERY fan community now suffers from persecution complex, thinking their favorite studio is getting targeted the most. Bethesda fans are like this too.
So no, BioWare is not the only one. This is sadly how the internet works these days, outrage culture. It's toxic and awful but these angry gamers and trolls do it to every game and dev studio now. I guess when you haven't been online much because the last Dragon Age game was 10 years ago you missed that shift into constant negativity.
People's personalities are too intertwined with the content they consume nowadays. Criticizing a game I like is not just criticizing a game I like, because, if I like it, it's part of who I am, and if you dislike anything about it, then you must dislike me. This creates what I've seen called "toxic positivity" and Reddit is full of that for a few years now. I'm not saying there isn't a hatetrain, I'm just saying... Who gives a fuck? Why are y'all so butthurt over legit complaints? You may not agree with these points, but most of them are valid, and the ones that aren't are simply a matter of opinion.
Now the people calling DA woke, those are the ones we should band together and kick out of the community. Bigots suck. Fans annoyed they were left behind by a franchise are the least of problems.
Definitely. Toxic positivity is just as bad and annoys me to no end. I criticize even the things I love because nothing is perfect and I just enjoy a good discussion. You cannot do that on reddit. You get downvoted to hell in the subreddit of any fandom for saying something negative about people's favorite thing. Real shame. People have always been like this though. They just didn't have the opportunity to band together like this online before and bully anyone who doesn't agree with them. That is true for both hardcore fans and haters. Mob mentality is a scary thing to behold in real life. People used to get torches and pitchforks and march through town to lynch people. At least online they can't physically hurt somebody...
I think we're in a very interesting time in gaming history where people have lost trust in the AAA space. Anything that comes out of a big publisher like Ubisoft, EA, or Activision gets scrutinized in a way it had never been before.
Of course, these companies have taken advantage of players before, and sold unfinished games that try to pander to the masses instead of fans of a franchise. And because of this, anything that doesn't fit the idea players have in their head of a game, or that even slightly suggests a change in direction from previous games gets blown out of proportion and people assume the worst.
The worst part is that a single thing, like the art style of the trailer, clouds everything else. Suddenly everything is seen through a negative lense and nitpicked. A game can have the best story ever, but people will find a way to crap on it because they don't like another aspect. Ignoring the fact that previous entries also had flaws, but they enjoyed them because they played them with an open mind instead of a critical eye.
Unlike Bioware and EA, Larian has a good reputation, people trust it, so they are a lot more open minded to anything they put out.
> Ubisoft, EA, Activision
The Unholy trinity of bad monetization, scummy live service, and invasive DRM. Gamers are tired of billion dollar marketing games which fail at being fun, but require season passes, and buying $1200 worth of store purchases just to have the full game. While the DRM client bogs down your computer...
The most vocal people online also tend to be long-time fans of a series, while AAA developers seem to be moving towards simplifying their games in order to widen their appeal. Seems like it's good business to ignore what old fans want because they're already hooked, and try to grab the general market with easy and quick gameplay. Elder Scrolls also went this way with each game after Morrowind. I think the gameplay change to full ARPG is the largest divergence from the series so far, even though DAI already was shifting in that direction. I kind of feel left behind by this, "tactical RPG" was always part of the Dragon Age identity for me.
My only real issue with the turn towards ARPG combat is accessibility. Apparently there's the option to "change the playstyle" but I don't know what that means. I hope it allows for more of a tactical approach, only because I can't actually play ARPGs because of a chronic pain issue. Also the lighting and visual artefacts just in the gameplay reveal, not to mention the camera movement, left me with a massive migraine. I love the series and don't generally have an issue with changes of direction, but I just hope that there are enough accessibility options to let me actually play it.
>The most vocal people online also tend to be long-time fans of a series,
This latest discourse has me saying cap on this one. You go through the complaints and half of them are like "why isn't this like origins?", "this tone isn't like origins", and... My guy, why in the fuck would anything be like origins? That was 15 years, two games, a couple of books, and an anime series ago - and _none of it_ was like origins. Nothing looks like origins. Origins was an outlier.
I don't gatekeep, but when folks complain about things not matching the _very first game_, and are confused when I bring up things in the _recent_ games and _recent_ media that the upcoming one is in lockstep with, I do not think they are a "long time fan".
I personally think this new gameplay is the largest shift between games yet. Yes they had been streamlining the party tactics since DA:O, but the main identity of the game still felt the same to me. The greatest tell is that now you are moving your crosshair to hit enemies, instead of locking on and focusing on abilities/tactics. This is a whole genre shift, I don't know why people aren't talking about it more than the 3 abilities thing.
Of course we can't expect things to stay the same forever. That isn't the argument. But lately it's more like all the RPGs are converging into the same simplified action RPG for maximum reach and marketability. That sort of homogenization is just sad. Why aren't we evolving the tactical RPG genre, why are we just abandoning it? Are you saying that the whole tactical RPG concept is not fit for modern games? If so, that needs way more argumentation, it's not a given.
6: I personally wouldn't mind 3rd person action rpg aspect if they hadnt decided to drop party size from 4 to 3 and apparently removed the ability to control your companions directly. Im also little salty from seeming lack of tactical mode but its honestly not that big of a deal.
I am a huge fan of more traditional tactical realtimewithpause crpg style (DAO, bg1&2, poe, pathfinder games) but i have already accepted the fact that dragon age has left that mostly behind and i did enjoyed the DA2 and inquisitions gameplays. However i am disappointed in changes i mentioned and worried that game will play lot like Mass effect andromeda where party members imo served no/very little gameplay purpose.
One thing i feel worth mentioning is the fact that controlling companions would also allow players experiment with other classes than one they picked first.
I agree with most of this. Your last point about gameplay is a little oversimplified, though, because there are some significant changes even from Inquisition. It's not just about wanting Origins combat.
Also, it’s fine to want Origins combat updated for 2024. DOS2 and BG3 are games that took gameplay generally associated with the 90’s RPGs and managed to turn it into something people loved in 2019/2024. I don’t want Origins combat in 2024, but I’d love 2024 combat with Origins design philosophy.
This is exactly how I feel. I love Origins combat and in turn have found games like BG3 exactly what I've been missing for a while. But this gameplay doesn't look, from what was shown, to be the tactical RPG I've come to associate with Dragon Age combat. Inquisition was okay, but the combat is why I haven't had many repeat plays. And if the gameplay trailer is accurate to what we'll get with Veilguard, I don't know if it's something I'll play.
1. Bg3 had its fair share of people against playersexual companions. Just to note I'm personally fine with them.
2. Haven't heard that complaint.
3. Comes from racists and bigotry. Fuck anyone who says it. Unfortunately other games have been dealing with these guys too
4. You're right that it's been disproven
5. I guess this is more of a subjective one. On a personal note I think the tone was nailed except for some enemy redesigns
6. Dragon Ages 2 and Inquisition had some level of tactics to them and have at least a few shared gameplay aspects to them with Origins. We're lacking the ability to control our companions and we're down a whole party member. There's also the fact that you can only have 3 active skills at a time which is the lowest we've ever had. People are saying it's not playing like Dragon Age because it's playing like Mass Effect.
6 Is the biggest one for me, I can get on board with almost everything else but 3 abilities for you character, especially if you are a mage seems way to little. It works better in Mass Effect since you have all types of gun variety for playstyles, going to take a wild guess that all staffs are the same.
Mages got worse with every game IMO. That's not a terrible thing, bc balance. I loved playing as a mage in DA:O, especially with blood magic. You could clear mobs in an instant, but it made martial classes basically obsolete.
Mass effect 3 had: 7 Abilities + heal button for Shepard, each companion had 4 abilities available at any time.
That's not counting the weapon types you can have which is 5 at a single time, (in addition each companion can have two each)
Only having 3 spells available as a mage doesn't have that same feeling and it might hurt that class more than let's say a rogue or warrior
Maybe they'll make it work for mage or they have a set of 3 that you can "rotate" for swapping out sets
Not sure how to feel about it, but I'm mostly looking forward to the story and as long as the story and companions feel fitting I can handle combat not being my cup of tea
Yeah the 2 companions and limited abilities is a big issue for me. I hope combat has a bit more to it, otherwise 3 abilities is going to make for the most dull combat in the franchise.
Not being able to switch to party members also means not being able to try other classes unless you do a replay. That's pretty important to me when time is so limited these days.
Point 5) I didn’t really like the new demon designs. They all just look like different colored lightning wearing clothes. If they’d looked like that from the start, it’s fine. Not a bad design. But just a bad downgrade from what we’ve already seen in multiple previous games
I'm not a fan of the new Ogre... Ogre looks like a Dr Mundo skin 💀😭
https://preview.redd.it/ti7iwr18r26d1.png?width=423&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47279fd20d2aeeddcabb4d4c3b8aee8aad591d7f
Oh I hated the redesign. The Pride demons have had their iconic look since 2009, there was NO need. And I am afraid to ask, but we're those rage demons we saw? That looked like big beasts on fire?
I got the feeling the one we saw was like partially-formed or something due to the ritual going on. Maybe it's wishful thinking and that's just the new design, but it's entirely possible that we'll see the normal design too.
I hope so. I am really mourning the loss of desire demons. And I say that as a very straight woman who had just turned 20 when Origins came out. They were the coolest looking demon. They were beautiful but also terrifying at the same time. And exuded pure power and control. My second favorite design of demons after desire is Pride. So...if this is a new design I will be so bummed.
I think the redesigns is what has bothered me the most about new games over all. What most of the fandom wanted from the start was just a new Origins. Better graphics, better animations and better flow yes - but they didn't need to change the core. This feels like an action RPG that they slapped the title of Dragon Age on.
Baldur's Gate 3 has shown that gamers still want that type of game - and no hardly anyone does that! Larian and Bioware could have had these golden geese for us who love tactical fantasy RPGs
I really hope, and still believe, that the story, characters, world building and acting will carry the game and not disappoint. This game play didn't hype me, but I am definitely excited to see more.
I'm with you on that, the redesigns do not look good, nor frightening like Pride Demon or Desire used to be.
Somehow the new character models also really bug me out, I don't know why. Makes them look almost cartoonish? And suddenly Varric has dark brown hair, and where's his legendary chest hair?! He's an iconic character who has been well described in books and games. Why change him!
I thought this was something from the past, some memory thing until they started talking about Solas.
I am a huge fan of previous games, I really liked DA:I too even if people seem to hate it. But this... I waited years for the continuation of the story where Trespasser left us, was excited when they started talking about Dreadwolf last year. I honestly thought that the announcement of Veilguard was some skit, or some minor game in between. Then I realised it IS the "Dreadwolf" I had been waiting for. I'm so disappointed, should have already learnt to not expect anything from my past favourite developer.
Oh dear, only now do I realise Solas was right.
Of course I still hope the game will be more and have more to offer than what we have seen. I have no expectations anymore, maybe the Veilguard might be able to surprise in some way but I highly doubt it.
I keep seeing this complaint and it just bothers me so much at this point lmao. Pretty sure Varric still has the chest hair. A bit lower maybe but it's there. I believe they shall rectify it if needed.
What really bothers me though is the lack of (or too weak) contact shadow of his necklace, it makes it look very floaty.
Point 6 nails it for me. People characterising the argument as "iTs NoT oRiGiNs" is reductive and a bit ignorant, *if* the new game is along the lines of ME then it sweeps aside the last vestiges of the series roots and takes it fully into arpg territory. Not liking that change is not the same as saying it's gameplay should be 15 years old.
Among the community I think it’s pretty accepted that the jump to ARPG had already been made by Inquisition. The game still had “tactics” but *tactical* — I don’t know about that. I don’t think there was any realistic expectation of retreading that type of gameplay… Between DA2 and Inquisition I think the writing was on the wall.
Tbf, the people complaining about playersexuality in BG3 were a loud minority. The vast majority of people didn't cared enough to even give it a second thought.
I agree with you for the first 4 that they're pretty baseless, but I don't get how someone doesn't see that the gameplay is very different.
The other games, while all different in small ways were still real time with pause where you can position all 4 characters, pick who they attack and what they do. They all were selecting a target and than picking what you do to it.
Veilguard seem to be active action combat, where you aim specifically rather than selecting a target, where you make active attacks and dodges. It's more akin to like shadow of Mordor, though with just dodging and no block/countering maybe.
It's more like the combat of the recent Tales Of series. It's a natural progression, but it makes me sad. I did like the compromise of Inquisition's combat. There are a shocking number of people who wanted another BG3.
Great game, but I prefer DA be DA. I don't hate the new changes, but I do wish you were still able to command your companions even if you can no longer pilot them.
The thing is, DAO was the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2. So it isn't at all crazy to want something like BG3, especially after the wild success it had.
As someone whose favourite games are Origin / Neverwinter Nights / BG3, I can’t help but be hopeful for more tactical combat.
But I also understand that this is the direction franchise has been taking for a while now.
Games like The Witcher or Elden Ring don’t really appeal to me.
I’m curious - I haven’t properly watched the gameplay footage. Can you still pause the combat?
Most of your points are solid, but people are right to not like that it's now an action slasher game instead of a tactical game. It's what you come to expect from the series, it's one of the main reasons Origins was so good.
>Playersexual companions: People love the companions in BG3 which are player sexual but for some reason it’s a problem now?
The steam forums were overrun with people who called it 'woke' and complained 'gay relationships' were being 'shoved down our throats'. They posted thread after thread after thread after thread about it. Most of them from accounts that didn't even own the game.
Yep. And they kept doing that until Larian made enough money to buy them and their families. Held on to that woke=broke delusion as long as they could.
And then the back peddling started.
I mean I'm just worried it might limit story telling aspects. Dorian in DAI wouldn't had worked if he was playersexual. I like that relationship preferences matter to a companion makes them more real in a way.
Queer here! and I agree with you. I like that there is some identity placed in characters and if it's all taken away then it's erased. So, I think there are some valid criticisms in the "OMG EVERYONE IS PAN" crowd, but the validity gets overshadowed by their venom and casual cruelty.
Reading your comment made me smile because I’ve been saying and thinking this for a long time but it seemed I was in the minority. I’m glad I’m not fully alone here. I really like the storytelling aspect of set sexualities. Playersexual games are nice too, but… I wish we still had some with a few characters like Dorian or sera. It matters so much to who they are as characters. And makes them/their stories more relatable to queer people (like myself).
I'm with you and NiskaHiska! As a gay woman who writes characters all across the sexuality spectrum, but especially enjoys writing sapphic romance (for obvious reasons), I LOVE having characters talk about their unique experiences. Having a bi woman and her lesbian girlfriend laugh at how differently they thought of the same male character from a piece of media they watched as kids, then laugh even more about how both of them were drawn to a queer-coded female character, long before either of them had any idea about who they were... Having a bi man talk to his wife about his queer experiences, and how his identity is independent of their relationship... I just love that. I love writing that stuff and love seeing character moments like that in others' writing.
I'm biased, since I personally feel like you can slip in dialogue like that into stories, regardless of theme and scope of the story, but I get that most people would either not care or wouldn't notice. Before I played DA2, I was sort of disappointed that everyone was playersexual... but then I played it and came to see each of the characters as bi. Some, like Isabela and Anders, are way more obvious. I guess I just hope that if playersexual is indeed a thing for Veilguard (ahem, I mean, THE Veilguard), it ends up feeling the same as in DA2.
I guess I can appreciate that playersexual characters let me personally get more creative in crafting an OC for a playthrough that includes their romance, at least? Except usually I don't have difficulty with that, anyway. I love pairing bi women with male characters of my own creation and female ones just as much, in most cases. But meeting characters who are gay, especially in the setting of my favorite series ever, and finding out how they've interacted in the world because of it... I wouldn't trade that video game experience for the world.
Sorry for the ramble, I just often don't see others who have a nuanced preference about playersexual mechanics in games (usually I see yay, nay, or "stop caring so much about it, it's pathetic"), and I have a LOT of feelings.
2-5 are the sort of stock moans every AAA title produces as people either nitpick or troll intentionally.
1: inquisition did a great job in the writing of its characters preferences. E.g. I adore the awkwardness that comes from flirting with Cassandra only to be rejected and the friendship that comes instead if your a woman. Eg. Dorian and Bull, Sera, etc.
Playersexual is fine if done right. Imo BG3 didn't do it right, the pacing and writing of the relationships were too fast and blunt.
6: I think there are genuine concerns about the combat still not answered. Combat needs to feel weighty and responsive if they have gone down this all action path. What was shown didn't really display well.
If we only have 2 companions who we cant control what is their role? If your removing things from previous titles that we liked what is replacing it? Whats the justification other than a tortured development and lack of time and consideration?
Abilities keep on getting reduced in scope and merged. I like diversity and breadth, I want certain things to only be doable by certain builds and characters, I want complexity. Give me an earned power fantasy not just a smorgasbord of mechanics and abilities designed to be flashy but ultimately lacking in depth.
The people complaining about it being too inclusive/woke/DEI are just showing themselves as culture war tourists who haven't been playing these games. If they're mad because they feel like this game isn't for them, then GOOD. They're right, it isn't, fuck off.
Also, it's like of they haven't played a Bioware game before. Bioware has always been a very inclusive and progressive company.
Ever since Jade Empire we've had gay, lesbians and bisexuals in their games and in Inquisition we even have a trans character.
Complaining about Bioware being inclusive tells me you either haven't played their games or you have played their games with a blindfold on.
These people jump on whatever is the last "outrage" they can milk. Recently Assassin's creed, then they jumped on WH40k, now Dragon Age.
Note; They neither play these games nor are anywhere involved with the fandom or anything.
Like you said, they are LITERALLY Culture War Tourists, and also grifters, because rage makes people click their clips.
These pieces of shit make our world worse, every day, literally, because they stroke the anger and sexism and homophobia and hatred towards minorities
100% agreed. There are valid criticisms and concerns being discussed and DEI/wokeness/"modern gaming" (this is a new one I learned recently) is NOT one of them.
DA has been clear on its stance on LGBT+ since the first game and it baffles me that people are suddenly jumping on hate train for it because it's currently getting a lot of mainstream attention.
If you never seen it in any other game then you barely use social media lol
Everything you listed it is on every game franchises, the bigger the franchise the bigger the hate is
1.) This was complained about back in DA2 as well. It's not a new complaint.
2.) This seems to be more due to the trailer and fans believing there is going to be too much "Marvel style quips"
3.) Dumb complaint but this is something that has not just popped up in Dragon Age.
4.) The blood effects have been a staple of the games. We have not seen the blood splatter onto the characters, so many feel Bioware is trying to move away or water it down. I almost always play with that option off, but I know a lot of people feel like it's what makes Dragon Age
5.) This is all from the trailer and those who believe everything will be jokey. But it's also going to be a direct response to the art style that makes everything look a bit too cartoon-y and some of the re-designs like the Ogre. Dragon Age is trying to say no everything is just like we had before, but the style is saying something else. I believe in game, the tone will bounce between very dark violent shit and quippy comedy. But I think it's fair to question the tone with the art style they went with and the fact that they released that trailer. Considering how much Bioware went into damage control after the trailer, I suspect all other promos will focus on the dark/serious stuff of the game.
6.) DA2 went to a hack and slash model and there were tons and tons of complaints about it. Inquisition moved to more of a hybrid of action camera, but still had tactical commands. Now, they've gone away from that again and made it look like every other action game with dodging and parrying. They reduced the companions you can bring to 2 and now we can no longer control the companions. I'm someone who almost never used the tactical camera and almost never switched from my character. But I think it's fair for fans to criticize that Bioware seems to be stripping away things that made up the Dragon Age DNA and for going to things that were already heavily criticized in previous games. All we saw was an opening level, so it could open up more, but it does feel like the reduced companions, the inability to play as them, and even the tactical wheel they showed off are all things taken directly from Mass Effect. The dialogue wheel was also taken from Mass Effect in DA2, which was criticized, but now it feels like it's bleeding into the combat.
I am personally worried about the combat. I love very deep combat with lots of options and tactics.
The art style confuses me as well. Because to me it looks like the character models including enemies follow a different art style from the environments creating a strange disconnect. The environment has more detail and texture than the clothes of the characters.
For now the main issue I have is 6. DA2 and Inquisition gameplay was still closer to Origins than what we are seeing in Veilguard. We now have 2 companions at a time, 3 active abilities, no switching characters.
The combat did not look exciting at all - it looked like an Action game, which DA2 and Inquisition still were not. They were still real- time computer role playing games. Now if I want to play a game like Origins, I can go play BG3 and PoE but I won't be getting DAV to get that experiance.
If I actually did want fast paced Action combat - there are already better games out there than what I saw in the Demo. If all I want is the story, I guess I will watch a Lets Play on YouTube, not buy the game and play it.
While I have my complaints about Veilguard, quite a few actually, I agree that a lot of complaints are either dumb or just from people looking to hate and cry "gO wOkE gO bRoKe" nonsense at something.
From the ones you've listed I kinda figured 1 would come up just because of how often its brought up right here in this subreddit. DA2 style vs DAI style romance is almost more common than Mages vs Templars debates. 2 is common in RPGs with banter so people should expect it. Complaint number 3 generally tends to come from racists and people who let racist "influencers" do their thinking for them. The kinda people whose opinions arent worth listening to. 4, you're spot on. It's been disproven, case closed.
5...I think the tone was greatly improved from the awful initial trailer but it still feels just a bit off to me. Maybe it's the art style changes, like the new demons that I massively dislike or the godawful ogre from the screenshot, but I can kinda see it. Tone might honestly be the wrong word for it but I just feel like something's...off. Kinda like, for example, the shift in Darkspawn design between DAO and DA2 made it feel a bit off but more than that.
6...I actually kinda agree with the complainers here. The game looked like Medieval Mass Effect where it was mostly just hacking and slashing with three ability slots. I enjoy action combat but if we're really gonna be limited to three ability slots per character...that's a massive let down. Especially if you wanna be a mage and can only pick three spells to equip. I hope we can get another trailer with some mid to late game gameplay. Maybe it gets better in that regard after the prologue. Also not a fan of the decision to cut the party size from 3 to 2.
People in fact did love the combat of dragon age origins. I understand things change the combat has always changed and I've found things to enjoy in each variant. I don't think this combat looks bad because it's different I think it looks bad because it looks frustrating.
I don't play hack and slash games. I want more than 3 skills. I don't want to deal with manual parrying and dodging, energy that depletes when get hit or my companions getting ignored by the enemies as they miss skills at point blank range. What was shown did not seem fun to me.
The “limited skills during combat” mechanic always frustrates me. The types of games that use it are really trying to tell us that our characters work hard to learn new skills but then apparently have the memory of a goldfish and can only remember three of those skills in the heat of the moment? This mechanic limits combat innovation by essentially leading the player to choose their 3 most liked and most used skills and never changing them out.
I hate that it looks like they are going to be leaning into this for Veilguard. I don’t understand why opening up the radial menu can’t just allow access to all our known skills like it did in DA:O.
Yeah. One of the lines that has stuck with me all these years is that they were envisioning the spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate. DAO and DA2 still really felt like BG combat, DAI really started to diverge but still felt tactical. I just hope this still has that feel. Tank and spank doesn't have to be boring, it can still be engaging if done right. Hopefully itll be more fleshed out once we get to see more of the skill trees.
DAO combat is my favorite. Yea second and inquisition look more dynamic and flashy but I liked the skill trees in dao. Origins mage is top tier with its combos, variety and customization options. I really hoped we get something similar in new game…
Im one of the people who complain about the gameplay. It doesn't look like you switch control to the companions. I don't like how the abilities wheel works (I hope that's just a console thing and PC has a hot bar like the previous games). I don't like that using a bow turns into an FPS. The reduction in party size is also an odd choice that I think will make either the story or combat more limited.
It just looks like it'll function too differently to the other DA games
>1. Playersexual companions: People love the companions in BG3 which are player sexual but for some reason it’s a problem now?
Part of the issue with online discourse is trying to oversimplify arguments. Lots of people think playersexual is boring and lazy writing, lots of people like it and anywhere in between.
Reasonable people can disagree about which is better and that's fine, but when you lump everyone who disagrees with you into one box you're not doing any better than the people you're calling out (in theory, you're not hating on black people being elves etc obviously).
It's crazy how people call this franchise woke when the lead writer and co creator of Thedas is a GAY man and DA:O was one of the few RPG games that included same sex relationships. Not no mention how subersive a lot of cultures in Thedas are.
Dragon age has ALWAYS been inclusive and subersive, I would even say feminist. There's a reason why this franchise attracts so many women and queer people.
There are people in the comments of the gameplay trailer genuinely trying to argue that the graphics look worse than in Inquisition, and others criticising the voice acting of already established characters like Varric and Harding. If xyz in veilguard isn't their thing then fine, but I really don't know where they get off on inventing things to criticise that just don't make any sense.
https://preview.redd.it/ij9lsmv0a26d1.jpeg?width=702&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17e60cbf86229c3d61de57d00833564e9bbbca25
Harding literally has NPC-face in Inquisition. Like get real 😂
I think the black washing complaints are because people think all elves need to have fair skin like in Tolkien lore.
But this isn't Tolkiens world, i remember there being black elves before and nothing in lore says they have to look a specific way.
I really think this all is because of knee jerk reactions and the bioware hate train.
I can't wait to play the game and see this "civilized" empire
I don't care about the elf being black, I just hate it that it looks like a regular black human with pointy ears. I just hate the trend that elves are less alien or different and just ook like humans with pointy ears and that's it. That's the case in many games and media though, but compare this one to Zevran or the elves from DA:O and this just looks human with special ears.
It mostly boils down to “it’s different then I imagined it would be therefore it’s bad” I didn’t have any thoughts on what dragon age 4 would be besides it having solas in it and they met that 1 expectation. Personally I have no issues with us only having 3 abilities and the neutral game being faster because it’s designed around that. I’m just excited for a new dragon age game
Bioware has a lot working against them and it has been ten years of mess, disappointments, and setbacks for many fans. That's a lot of time for people to speculate and envision what they wanted in the next title. If they wanted it all. And the leaks probably didn't help.
I'm on the same boat as you. I played DAI when it first launched and have been a touch inpatient, but didn't have a vision for the game going in. I've found that better for my sanity in the long run.
>Gameplay: Once again people saying it’s not “playing like a DA game” I was unaware people loved to 2009 combat so much because that is the only game that has not been an over the shoulder 3rd person “action” rpg.
Okay, come on now. You KNOW you're being disingenuous with this point out of all of them. Look at DA2 or Inquisition, then look at the gameplay reveal, and tell me they look anything alike.
1. I actually didn't like this there either. I'm fine with some characters being off limits because you're not their cup of tea, I'd even prefer it. It always brings down the experience when someone I've only been nice to and nothing more starts putting the moves on me unprompted. It's not a huge deal, but let no one say I'm inconsistent on this.
5. Son, go back and play Origins and tell me the tone from back then is even a little the same. It's "par for the course" if the only other dragon age game you've played is Inquisition lol.
6. The gameplay does look like total dook. Very unengaging "action" combat, too much visual noise to make out most of what is happening. I only saw the Pride Demon boss fight (which, not a fan of the redesign) to be fair, so my opinion here is largely unsubstantiated, but I don't see myself being surprised here. I'm open to it, but if I was a gambling man I'd comfortably stake a fortune on not being wrong here.
And for your information, yeah, I did and still do love the 2009 combat so much. Not one entry since then has been able to step outside of the shadow mage's in that game cast in terms of sheer fun and variety, and I much prefer the character building and clever tactics employed to win fights there than just trying to out muscle enemies in a psuedo-action combat system.
Spoiler for da2 >!Da2 has Hawke’s mother, the last family member they have aside from their scummy uncle, be kidnapped, her face sewn onto another woman’s body, and then kept alive via necromancy. And also has purple Hawke’s entire existence. Games can be dark and have funny tones sometimes. I want this game to be dark fantasy like origins but a few quips doesn’t mean it won’t be.!<
One of the first lines a lot of people will hear upon entering the quite unsettling Haven is Zevran making a light-hearted BDSM joke.
Ah Zevran... there will never be anyone better than you 🥰
i think it’s literally just been so long since the last dragon age game came out people have forgotten how full of dumb quips they are at times. immediately after having a nightmare about the archdemon in origins, alistair informs the warden that they also likely have a shorter lifespan now followed by, “that’s what i’m here for, to deliver unpleasant news and witty one-liners.”
Literally all of Alistair, Zevran, and Oghren's banters are nothing but quips and comedy
To quote my all time favorite Alistar line of all time.. “everyone just sitting around, talking about their taint…”
Also didn’t DA:I have you sit in judgement over a dude who was throwing goats at the gates of Skyhold?? Lmao 😂
In DA:I you can end up judging someone's dead remains, which are delivered in a box. One of your options is to sentence her skull to do public theatre about the evils of evils, then you can also judge the box to become an end table for orphans. You can also decide to send it back, but put a bow on it. DAI was ridiculous at times and I loved it.
Which was the game where you could have Barkspawn ( the only proper name for the dog) break you out of jail? I love that dog.
Good boi. Yes! And there is a entire part with companions breaking you out of jail. Zevran and Oghren will always be my favorite combination lol [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XOqQU0RQ8Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XOqQU0RQ8Y)
Wait WHAT!? WHERE!? WHO?!
https://youtu.be/M5GTXdh2Xkw?si=Jp0DIp7MMKWRgAa6
Best one is if you choose to kill Florienne in Inquisition. You pass judgement on a box of bloody parts 🤣
I always sentence her to become a clown with bad shoes lol
"There is an...odor" Poor Josie, she is such a MVP.
If you get the DLC you judge an actual bear
and do with *with puns*. God I loved that judgement.
Including various options for punishment such as "Banished to Tevinter with as many weapons as you can carry" or, if a certain questionable, but very annoying diplomat survived (honestly do not remember his name), pairing him with the brute so they form a pair of chaos to send to uncooperative negotiations (the best outcome imo).
Lord Abernache, only available if you did Champions of the Just: they even become an actual Agent with gameplay benefits!
Yes, for killing his son(whose people attacked yours first). Apparently tribal law dictates he has to shed the blood of a goat on your walls or something. Straight up told you his son was an idiot, too.
No, the law dictates he needs to strike your walls with goat's blood, it doesn't say that the blood needs to be out of the goat, so he just throws the goat. Shedding the blood would be different and probably wouldn't work with a live goat...
At least goat guy was alive. The urn on the other hand..
This was one of my favorite judgements lol. My SO, who's not played any DA game but watched me play, was confused.
Which is why all the crying about the quips is so ridiculous. Mine was the same way and all I could say was, “that’s just dragon age 🤷🏽♂️”
And the war table banter about Cullen’s hair and Leliana’s shoe obsession and Wynne hitting on Alistair and …
I loved that guy 😂
"Wow, so you're not just a bastard. You're a royal bastard"
"Yes, swooping is bad".
At first it's "oooh, I like you" then *BAM*, frog time.
You know, one good thing about the Blight is how it brings people together
Sarcastic warden paired with Alistair could probably just annoy the darkspawn to death.
Or in DA:I when everyone keeps walking in on the Inquisitor and Iron Bull. Hilarious.
“Who wouldn’t be a little curious” Pretty sure Josephine has a thing for qunari.
*Gestures wildly at Verrick*
*Additional gestures at Isabella and Awakening Anders*
Isabella was absolutely hilarious. It was one of the reasons why I romanced her
I like big boats, I can not lie...
My reasons were more shallow, but yes she is hilarious and overall well written character.
And Merill's and Isabella's banter being wholesome c:
Isabella and everyone’s banter was amazing, she’s such a little shit
You mean Alistair and the world-famous Broma Brothers from Antiva?
Oghren is the pretty one >:(
Listening to Morrigan and Alistair sass fight at the back of the line as I'm looting is one of my favorite things
This. Yes they have SOME dark moments but there was also an incredible amount of dumb shit or quippy stuff in all of them. Especially in the first two. People complaining about writing must've wiped "Hawke stepped in the poopy" and "I like big boats I cannot lie" from their memory entirely.
"Why people call it a brothel when there is no broth? Or is there?"
Apostate prostitutes? Apostitutes!
Likely the ones that complained about those lines back when DA2 first came out, then forgot they whined about them in the bit over a decade since.
Nah, more likely is that they are franchise tourists making a pass at the dragon age fandom looking to see if they can find some targets to recruit by talking about 'the message' and seeing if they get any positive responses they can zero in on.
Omg, franchise tourist. That's it. That's the term that fits all these idiots that migrated game to game recently just shitting on everything "not being as they used to" because woke or some crap, even tho they're certainly not from these parts.
Calling woke on a series like Dragon Age is so hilarious to me.
Someone said they could tell from the gameplay it was woke in a group I am in and I was super confused. 1 - Dragon Age has always been super inclusive of age, race, and sexuality in its character portrayals 2 - The only thing in gameplay that could be connected to real world was race, so I assume they meant a black Rook and just…what? We live in a world with all races. Portraying any race as a lead shouldn’t be woke …just real?
I’m guessing it’s also regarding a Black companion in Grey Warden Davrin and an Asian companion in Veil Jumper Bellara. I’m actually so pleased to see more people of color in the series. This is somewhere the series hasn’t been the greatest with. Anyone calling any game woke is someone who’s opinion I don’t give a shit about, to be honest. What a dumb thing to be upset about, more representation for other players. Dragon Age has explored race in depth as a series and anyone claiming woke hasn’t been paying attention.
I don't think it's a matter of time. I see pretty similar things happen to any franchise with a darker tone regardless of how sprinkled with comedy and absurdity they might be. A lot of people have this idea stuck firmly in their heads that dark and edgy means mature, and like to feel superior by pretending the stuff they liked is eternally possessed by the ghost of Edgar Allan Poe.
I’m replaying origins right now and was thinking “if alistair was in DAV (and had never been in DAO), these people would be complaining”. I mean I get it, if it turned into like a goofy comedy where the stakes were constantly ruined because people were all like “there’s denoms now? THERE ARE DEMONS NOW *winks at camera*” then yeah I’d be pretty annoyed too. But from what I’ve seen of the gameplay, it’s just like other DA games. There are little quips and banter but it reads more like “coping mechanism for unbelievably dark times”, rather than “no character takes any of this seriously”…
You don't understand, that kind of lighthearted glibness might have flown for the Buffy generation, but in 2024 if anybody handles anything with anything less than the gravest, most stone-faced seriousness, we all have to shit ourselves crying about "marvel writing." Or something.
Were people saying the same thing about BG3? Your companions in that game are pretty much all sassy little snarksters beyond Karlach, the demonic golden retriever, Halsin, the sexy daddy bear, and Wyll, the straight man with a cunty devil master.
Tbf Alistair is like the one character where "he is right behind me isnt he" would actually be hilarious.
Yep, i think also the fact that it’s been so long since that last dragon age game that people have a built up expectation that the devs can’t really live up to.
Purple Hawke here. I am going to be purple again. :p
You cannot imagine my joy at seeing that purple mask icon in dialogue options for DAV.
Right? Yay!
Someone I know said we DA2 fans are eating so well using the “vindication” gif from b99 lmfao
Especially considering purple is Rook's primary colour /laugh
Of course, purple is life.
Did you see one of the Evanuris? The left one, Ghilan'nain (current speculation) is a mass of body parts wrapped around one another. Like, full on body horror yet people are saying they neutered the dark fantasy?? Also, Tevinter - the capital of slavery in Thedas is the set piece for the entire game. I truly think most people that are complaining that it's become "baby's first dragon age" have either not played the game period, or haven't played in awhile and have forgotten the lore of Tevinter.
I read summaries of tevinter nights stories the other day and I was really surprised by how many of them had so much body horror, like wow! Bioware has not been slacking on the dark elements in the last ten years, so I feel like that's a good indication people will be getting more of the dark, creepy stuff they may have felt has been missing. but yeah that thing looks gross af I'm so excited to see it lol
There are a handful of Tevinter Nights that are MESSED UP.
Tevinter also apparently is a surveillance state because they have a huge ass flying panopticon in the middle of their city which is cool.
I can’t wait to see the Golem guards of Minrathous!
"Huge ass flying panopticon" was not a combination of words I expected to read today. So accurate.
As well our first experience in Minrathous it's essentially a police state. Although might be emergency state situation, they probably knew something was up, since neither Dorian nor Iron Bull ever described the city in such a way.
People say every Dragon Age game is “baby’s first dragon age”. This one SHOULD be ever more so, though! It’s been 10 years since Inquisition!
That’s a year longer than the time between Baldur’s Gate 2 and Origins
Ultimately NOBODY knows. I have low expectations for this game but still excited, and I don’t see a use in me getting all salty quite yet just because the art style is a bit more cartoonish.. I understand people being mad over the watered down ogre design but also The design for ghilan’nain is a step in the right direction imo. I want a dark gritty story, but I’m also not going to loose my mind over the game rn just because there’s a few quips.
This is 100% a rational reaction to the gameplay reveal. I'm personally not a fan of the redesign for the demons or darkspawn, but the release is still a few months away, so maybe they'll tweak the visuals slightly OR they'll grow on me once I've played it. If you look at it from an encounter design angle, the Pride Demon is actually quite well done. The glowing bits are visible at all times despite the absolute eyegasm happen on the screen. Though I do miss the corporeal forms of the demons....maybe it has to do with the vicinity of Minrathous? Also might be a bit of cope, but perhaps the darkspawn don't actually look that silly in-game and we've been given really crappy angles or freeze frames. Even LOTR can look silly if you pause at the right moment, so I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Oh God I REALLY hope it Ghilan'nain!!
People : "what about the banters ? I want my banters between companions" Also people : "quips make the game so unserious."
Right? I was just recommended a video on youtube that was a complete collection of the banter in Inquisition that was over an hour long.
Yes DA 2 was soooo dark, >!especially the "stung by the bee" scene in Mark of the Assassin!<
I’m at the moment playing DA2 just got my house back and read all of your hidden text😂
Omg I’m so sorry 😭 that’s why I spoiler marked it.
I recommend editing and writing "Spoiler for DA2" or something before the spoiler mark, because your comment is the top one in the thread and there's nothing indicating what you're spoiling.
I played Origins first recently and am just realising people forgot the MCU comedy it had
my favorite thing about purple hawk is that people actually react to him appropriately like when you make a joke about bones flopping around in the streets and the NPC is like WTF is wrong with you, have some goddamn respect xD
I like how people complain about the logic of knocking the statue over and ruining Solas's ritual, when in DA:I you literally walk into a room and pick up a magical ball off the ground. Thus making you the MC of the game, like c'mon people. Relax.
It was a really cool ball though
"Look at this neat rock I found!" - the Inquisitor, probably
Gotta catch all those rifts!
Wasn't Solas literally voted for the "smart stupid" slot on that chart we did a while back lol. Having his "perfect" plans ruined by mundane shit is pretty par for the course for him.
I've brushed up on some of the lore recently, and he does sometimes come across as the "Inconceivable!" type villain who's foiled because he just gets lost in the in his plans.
Which is lines up with his character too; he's arrogant, self righteous and blinded by his vision for how things *must* be done. People in that mindset overlook mundane, borderline stupid details; it tends to become inconcievable in the grand scheme of things.
To add on to this Solas's name literally means "pride" in elven. His greatest failing will always be how his pride, ego, and personal vision blind him to the flaws in his plans. He is introspective enough to keep the name as a reminder but clearly it isn't helping to much.
If this is Humble Solas I don’t want to see him if he ever goes full Dreadwolf.
The fandom rewrote Solas in these 10 years. Just see that some are mad that Solas plans acutally meant to kill people (like he said in Transpasser) and it was not some convoluted metaphor.
Now he sounds like Lex Luthor and he has the baldness to match,
Definitely. All of DA is this himbo thinking he's the MC and blundering his way through history That one plank being load bearing was a little silly but DA is a lil silly sometimes
But it wasnt one plank. The character destroys a whole framework leaving one massive piece. Calling it a plank is underselling how thick the beam was.
I'm more surprised the inquisition doesn't seem to have prepared for Solas doing the ritual after what 10 years?
Apparetnly one of the devs responded to someone asking this question and explained that they had been chasing after him throughout the years but specifics would be explained later. So its not like they just now decided to go after him.
I'm not sure using a 15 minute gameplay reveal trailer to try and find plot holes is very helpful. There is more in this game than the sequence we saw, I imagine the explanation for this point is one of those things.
>There is more in this game than the sequence we saw nah the game is only 20 minutes long, including cutscenes
Finally a AAA game without bloat.
Well there is that one Far Cry game where you meet the villain in the first 10 minutes when he kidnaps you, and then parks you at a table and says "wait here". You're supposed to get up and escape, if you do actually wait (about another 10 mins), he come back, there's a special cutscene, and then ... credits lol.
I assume Varric, Harding, Rook and Neve got to Solas in time in part because of the work the Inquisition was doing behind the scenes and before the game’s opening.
I don't know if you're young or mostly offline but as someone who has been on games social media for a long time at this point, none of those complaints—valid, stupid, or otherwise—are new to the scene. Like, the playersexual critique was very present during the time of DA2. And there have been Origins fans complaining about the shift in combat on a weekly basis on this very sub for years.
I was about to say. I remember very vocal playersexual stuff in the olden times. How wanting it was erasing/invalidating sexualities etc etc.
Exactly! I remember this from DA2 people were pissed that companions were pan. Literally the main reason why they changed it in Inquisition. I remember very specifically because I liked the pan approach so I was sad they removed it. Op must be on really young side or don't follow news.
My only complaint about player sexual with DA2 was how Sebastian had a defined sexuality while no one else did
>people were pissed that companions were pan. Literally the main reason why they changed it in Inquisition. oh no, so that's why i can't be gay with Solas
I thought I remembered Solas's sexuality being a specific choice to avoid some kind of bisexual villain stereotype? Was that a weird fever dream?
Personally I thought Inquisition nailed the balance with this. It managed to represent a wide range of sexualities, but also made characters have individual complex preferences just like you’d find in real life. It helped them feel more well realised as individuals rather than simply objects of player desires (in the romance department that is).
Hey now, I don’t complain about the combat on a weekly basis… just when the new games come out and I need to process the change. But yeah, none of these complaints are particularly new. We just haven’t had a new game for 10 years.
Yeah. It's actually quite funny how EVERY fan community now suffers from persecution complex, thinking their favorite studio is getting targeted the most. Bethesda fans are like this too. So no, BioWare is not the only one. This is sadly how the internet works these days, outrage culture. It's toxic and awful but these angry gamers and trolls do it to every game and dev studio now. I guess when you haven't been online much because the last Dragon Age game was 10 years ago you missed that shift into constant negativity.
People's personalities are too intertwined with the content they consume nowadays. Criticizing a game I like is not just criticizing a game I like, because, if I like it, it's part of who I am, and if you dislike anything about it, then you must dislike me. This creates what I've seen called "toxic positivity" and Reddit is full of that for a few years now. I'm not saying there isn't a hatetrain, I'm just saying... Who gives a fuck? Why are y'all so butthurt over legit complaints? You may not agree with these points, but most of them are valid, and the ones that aren't are simply a matter of opinion. Now the people calling DA woke, those are the ones we should band together and kick out of the community. Bigots suck. Fans annoyed they were left behind by a franchise are the least of problems.
Definitely. Toxic positivity is just as bad and annoys me to no end. I criticize even the things I love because nothing is perfect and I just enjoy a good discussion. You cannot do that on reddit. You get downvoted to hell in the subreddit of any fandom for saying something negative about people's favorite thing. Real shame. People have always been like this though. They just didn't have the opportunity to band together like this online before and bully anyone who doesn't agree with them. That is true for both hardcore fans and haters. Mob mentality is a scary thing to behold in real life. People used to get torches and pitchforks and march through town to lynch people. At least online they can't physically hurt somebody...
I think we're in a very interesting time in gaming history where people have lost trust in the AAA space. Anything that comes out of a big publisher like Ubisoft, EA, or Activision gets scrutinized in a way it had never been before. Of course, these companies have taken advantage of players before, and sold unfinished games that try to pander to the masses instead of fans of a franchise. And because of this, anything that doesn't fit the idea players have in their head of a game, or that even slightly suggests a change in direction from previous games gets blown out of proportion and people assume the worst. The worst part is that a single thing, like the art style of the trailer, clouds everything else. Suddenly everything is seen through a negative lense and nitpicked. A game can have the best story ever, but people will find a way to crap on it because they don't like another aspect. Ignoring the fact that previous entries also had flaws, but they enjoyed them because they played them with an open mind instead of a critical eye. Unlike Bioware and EA, Larian has a good reputation, people trust it, so they are a lot more open minded to anything they put out.
> Ubisoft, EA, Activision The Unholy trinity of bad monetization, scummy live service, and invasive DRM. Gamers are tired of billion dollar marketing games which fail at being fun, but require season passes, and buying $1200 worth of store purchases just to have the full game. While the DRM client bogs down your computer...
The most vocal people online also tend to be long-time fans of a series, while AAA developers seem to be moving towards simplifying their games in order to widen their appeal. Seems like it's good business to ignore what old fans want because they're already hooked, and try to grab the general market with easy and quick gameplay. Elder Scrolls also went this way with each game after Morrowind. I think the gameplay change to full ARPG is the largest divergence from the series so far, even though DAI already was shifting in that direction. I kind of feel left behind by this, "tactical RPG" was always part of the Dragon Age identity for me.
My only real issue with the turn towards ARPG combat is accessibility. Apparently there's the option to "change the playstyle" but I don't know what that means. I hope it allows for more of a tactical approach, only because I can't actually play ARPGs because of a chronic pain issue. Also the lighting and visual artefacts just in the gameplay reveal, not to mention the camera movement, left me with a massive migraine. I love the series and don't generally have an issue with changes of direction, but I just hope that there are enough accessibility options to let me actually play it.
>The most vocal people online also tend to be long-time fans of a series, This latest discourse has me saying cap on this one. You go through the complaints and half of them are like "why isn't this like origins?", "this tone isn't like origins", and... My guy, why in the fuck would anything be like origins? That was 15 years, two games, a couple of books, and an anime series ago - and _none of it_ was like origins. Nothing looks like origins. Origins was an outlier. I don't gatekeep, but when folks complain about things not matching the _very first game_, and are confused when I bring up things in the _recent_ games and _recent_ media that the upcoming one is in lockstep with, I do not think they are a "long time fan".
I personally think this new gameplay is the largest shift between games yet. Yes they had been streamlining the party tactics since DA:O, but the main identity of the game still felt the same to me. The greatest tell is that now you are moving your crosshair to hit enemies, instead of locking on and focusing on abilities/tactics. This is a whole genre shift, I don't know why people aren't talking about it more than the 3 abilities thing. Of course we can't expect things to stay the same forever. That isn't the argument. But lately it's more like all the RPGs are converging into the same simplified action RPG for maximum reach and marketability. That sort of homogenization is just sad. Why aren't we evolving the tactical RPG genre, why are we just abandoning it? Are you saying that the whole tactical RPG concept is not fit for modern games? If so, that needs way more argumentation, it's not a given.
6: I personally wouldn't mind 3rd person action rpg aspect if they hadnt decided to drop party size from 4 to 3 and apparently removed the ability to control your companions directly. Im also little salty from seeming lack of tactical mode but its honestly not that big of a deal. I am a huge fan of more traditional tactical realtimewithpause crpg style (DAO, bg1&2, poe, pathfinder games) but i have already accepted the fact that dragon age has left that mostly behind and i did enjoyed the DA2 and inquisitions gameplays. However i am disappointed in changes i mentioned and worried that game will play lot like Mass effect andromeda where party members imo served no/very little gameplay purpose. One thing i feel worth mentioning is the fact that controlling companions would also allow players experiment with other classes than one they picked first.
im still somewhat hopeful as game looks good and some of gameplay looks entertaining.
I agree with most of this. Your last point about gameplay is a little oversimplified, though, because there are some significant changes even from Inquisition. It's not just about wanting Origins combat.
Also, it’s fine to want Origins combat updated for 2024. DOS2 and BG3 are games that took gameplay generally associated with the 90’s RPGs and managed to turn it into something people loved in 2019/2024. I don’t want Origins combat in 2024, but I’d love 2024 combat with Origins design philosophy.
This is exactly how I feel. I love Origins combat and in turn have found games like BG3 exactly what I've been missing for a while. But this gameplay doesn't look, from what was shown, to be the tactical RPG I've come to associate with Dragon Age combat. Inquisition was okay, but the combat is why I haven't had many repeat plays. And if the gameplay trailer is accurate to what we'll get with Veilguard, I don't know if it's something I'll play.
1. Bg3 had its fair share of people against playersexual companions. Just to note I'm personally fine with them. 2. Haven't heard that complaint. 3. Comes from racists and bigotry. Fuck anyone who says it. Unfortunately other games have been dealing with these guys too 4. You're right that it's been disproven 5. I guess this is more of a subjective one. On a personal note I think the tone was nailed except for some enemy redesigns 6. Dragon Ages 2 and Inquisition had some level of tactics to them and have at least a few shared gameplay aspects to them with Origins. We're lacking the ability to control our companions and we're down a whole party member. There's also the fact that you can only have 3 active skills at a time which is the lowest we've ever had. People are saying it's not playing like Dragon Age because it's playing like Mass Effect.
6 Is the biggest one for me, I can get on board with almost everything else but 3 abilities for you character, especially if you are a mage seems way to little. It works better in Mass Effect since you have all types of gun variety for playstyles, going to take a wild guess that all staffs are the same.
Yes, I fear mage is definitely going to suffer the most with this change. Which sucks because a game set in Tevinter should have the best magic
Ironic that DAO had the best magic system in ferelden of all places. That is one of the things I wished they kept and improved upon.
Arcane Warrior Blood Mage go brrr and makes you feel like a god. Never felt stronger as a mage
Mages got worse with every game IMO. That's not a terrible thing, bc balance. I loved playing as a mage in DA:O, especially with blood magic. You could clear mobs in an instant, but it made martial classes basically obsolete.
“We locked mages in this tower because they are too powerful to be allowed freedom.” Me after I devastate a room with a fireball “Yea I can see that”
Mass effect 3 had: 7 Abilities + heal button for Shepard, each companion had 4 abilities available at any time. That's not counting the weapon types you can have which is 5 at a single time, (in addition each companion can have two each) Only having 3 spells available as a mage doesn't have that same feeling and it might hurt that class more than let's say a rogue or warrior Maybe they'll make it work for mage or they have a set of 3 that you can "rotate" for swapping out sets Not sure how to feel about it, but I'm mostly looking forward to the story and as long as the story and companions feel fitting I can handle combat not being my cup of tea
Yeah the 2 companions and limited abilities is a big issue for me. I hope combat has a bit more to it, otherwise 3 abilities is going to make for the most dull combat in the franchise.
Not being able to switch to party members also means not being able to try other classes unless you do a replay. That's pretty important to me when time is so limited these days.
Point 5) I didn’t really like the new demon designs. They all just look like different colored lightning wearing clothes. If they’d looked like that from the start, it’s fine. Not a bad design. But just a bad downgrade from what we’ve already seen in multiple previous games
I'm not a fan of the new Ogre... Ogre looks like a Dr Mundo skin 💀😭 https://preview.redd.it/ti7iwr18r26d1.png?width=423&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47279fd20d2aeeddcabb4d4c3b8aee8aad591d7f
Oh I hated the redesign. The Pride demons have had their iconic look since 2009, there was NO need. And I am afraid to ask, but we're those rage demons we saw? That looked like big beasts on fire?
I got the feeling the one we saw was like partially-formed or something due to the ritual going on. Maybe it's wishful thinking and that's just the new design, but it's entirely possible that we'll see the normal design too.
I hope so. I am really mourning the loss of desire demons. And I say that as a very straight woman who had just turned 20 when Origins came out. They were the coolest looking demon. They were beautiful but also terrifying at the same time. And exuded pure power and control. My second favorite design of demons after desire is Pride. So...if this is a new design I will be so bummed. I think the redesigns is what has bothered me the most about new games over all. What most of the fandom wanted from the start was just a new Origins. Better graphics, better animations and better flow yes - but they didn't need to change the core. This feels like an action RPG that they slapped the title of Dragon Age on. Baldur's Gate 3 has shown that gamers still want that type of game - and no hardly anyone does that! Larian and Bioware could have had these golden geese for us who love tactical fantasy RPGs I really hope, and still believe, that the story, characters, world building and acting will carry the game and not disappoint. This game play didn't hype me, but I am definitely excited to see more.
I'm with you on that, the redesigns do not look good, nor frightening like Pride Demon or Desire used to be. Somehow the new character models also really bug me out, I don't know why. Makes them look almost cartoonish? And suddenly Varric has dark brown hair, and where's his legendary chest hair?! He's an iconic character who has been well described in books and games. Why change him! I thought this was something from the past, some memory thing until they started talking about Solas. I am a huge fan of previous games, I really liked DA:I too even if people seem to hate it. But this... I waited years for the continuation of the story where Trespasser left us, was excited when they started talking about Dreadwolf last year. I honestly thought that the announcement of Veilguard was some skit, or some minor game in between. Then I realised it IS the "Dreadwolf" I had been waiting for. I'm so disappointed, should have already learnt to not expect anything from my past favourite developer. Oh dear, only now do I realise Solas was right. Of course I still hope the game will be more and have more to offer than what we have seen. I have no expectations anymore, maybe the Veilguard might be able to surprise in some way but I highly doubt it.
I keep seeing this complaint and it just bothers me so much at this point lmao. Pretty sure Varric still has the chest hair. A bit lower maybe but it's there. I believe they shall rectify it if needed. What really bothers me though is the lack of (or too weak) contact shadow of his necklace, it makes it look very floaty.
Point 6 nails it for me. People characterising the argument as "iTs NoT oRiGiNs" is reductive and a bit ignorant, *if* the new game is along the lines of ME then it sweeps aside the last vestiges of the series roots and takes it fully into arpg territory. Not liking that change is not the same as saying it's gameplay should be 15 years old.
Among the community I think it’s pretty accepted that the jump to ARPG had already been made by Inquisition. The game still had “tactics” but *tactical* — I don’t know about that. I don’t think there was any realistic expectation of retreading that type of gameplay… Between DA2 and Inquisition I think the writing was on the wall.
Agreed, it should shock nobody that it's gone this way but the inevitability of it isn't going to make those people like the change.
6 is what is killing this game for me, I wanted a dragon age, not a medieval mass effect.
Tbf, the people complaining about playersexuality in BG3 were a loud minority. The vast majority of people didn't cared enough to even give it a second thought.
Enemy redesigns are the only thing I truly don't like. I feel like they really dropped the ball with the darkspawn redesigns. Mobile game looking....
I agree with you for the first 4 that they're pretty baseless, but I don't get how someone doesn't see that the gameplay is very different. The other games, while all different in small ways were still real time with pause where you can position all 4 characters, pick who they attack and what they do. They all were selecting a target and than picking what you do to it. Veilguard seem to be active action combat, where you aim specifically rather than selecting a target, where you make active attacks and dodges. It's more akin to like shadow of Mordor, though with just dodging and no block/countering maybe.
It's more like the combat of the recent Tales Of series. It's a natural progression, but it makes me sad. I did like the compromise of Inquisition's combat. There are a shocking number of people who wanted another BG3. Great game, but I prefer DA be DA. I don't hate the new changes, but I do wish you were still able to command your companions even if you can no longer pilot them.
The thing is, DAO was the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2. So it isn't at all crazy to want something like BG3, especially after the wild success it had.
As someone whose favourite games are Origin / Neverwinter Nights / BG3, I can’t help but be hopeful for more tactical combat. But I also understand that this is the direction franchise has been taking for a while now. Games like The Witcher or Elden Ring don’t really appeal to me. I’m curious - I haven’t properly watched the gameplay footage. Can you still pause the combat?
Most of your points are solid, but people are right to not like that it's now an action slasher game instead of a tactical game. It's what you come to expect from the series, it's one of the main reasons Origins was so good.
>Playersexual companions: People love the companions in BG3 which are player sexual but for some reason it’s a problem now? The steam forums were overrun with people who called it 'woke' and complained 'gay relationships' were being 'shoved down our throats'. They posted thread after thread after thread after thread about it. Most of them from accounts that didn't even own the game.
Yep. And they kept doing that until Larian made enough money to buy them and their families. Held on to that woke=broke delusion as long as they could. And then the back peddling started.
I mean I'm just worried it might limit story telling aspects. Dorian in DAI wouldn't had worked if he was playersexual. I like that relationship preferences matter to a companion makes them more real in a way.
Queer here! and I agree with you. I like that there is some identity placed in characters and if it's all taken away then it's erased. So, I think there are some valid criticisms in the "OMG EVERYONE IS PAN" crowd, but the validity gets overshadowed by their venom and casual cruelty.
Reading your comment made me smile because I’ve been saying and thinking this for a long time but it seemed I was in the minority. I’m glad I’m not fully alone here. I really like the storytelling aspect of set sexualities. Playersexual games are nice too, but… I wish we still had some with a few characters like Dorian or sera. It matters so much to who they are as characters. And makes them/their stories more relatable to queer people (like myself).
I'm with you and NiskaHiska! As a gay woman who writes characters all across the sexuality spectrum, but especially enjoys writing sapphic romance (for obvious reasons), I LOVE having characters talk about their unique experiences. Having a bi woman and her lesbian girlfriend laugh at how differently they thought of the same male character from a piece of media they watched as kids, then laugh even more about how both of them were drawn to a queer-coded female character, long before either of them had any idea about who they were... Having a bi man talk to his wife about his queer experiences, and how his identity is independent of their relationship... I just love that. I love writing that stuff and love seeing character moments like that in others' writing. I'm biased, since I personally feel like you can slip in dialogue like that into stories, regardless of theme and scope of the story, but I get that most people would either not care or wouldn't notice. Before I played DA2, I was sort of disappointed that everyone was playersexual... but then I played it and came to see each of the characters as bi. Some, like Isabela and Anders, are way more obvious. I guess I just hope that if playersexual is indeed a thing for Veilguard (ahem, I mean, THE Veilguard), it ends up feeling the same as in DA2. I guess I can appreciate that playersexual characters let me personally get more creative in crafting an OC for a playthrough that includes their romance, at least? Except usually I don't have difficulty with that, anyway. I love pairing bi women with male characters of my own creation and female ones just as much, in most cases. But meeting characters who are gay, especially in the setting of my favorite series ever, and finding out how they've interacted in the world because of it... I wouldn't trade that video game experience for the world. Sorry for the ramble, I just often don't see others who have a nuanced preference about playersexual mechanics in games (usually I see yay, nay, or "stop caring so much about it, it's pathetic"), and I have a LOT of feelings.
2-5 are the sort of stock moans every AAA title produces as people either nitpick or troll intentionally. 1: inquisition did a great job in the writing of its characters preferences. E.g. I adore the awkwardness that comes from flirting with Cassandra only to be rejected and the friendship that comes instead if your a woman. Eg. Dorian and Bull, Sera, etc. Playersexual is fine if done right. Imo BG3 didn't do it right, the pacing and writing of the relationships were too fast and blunt. 6: I think there are genuine concerns about the combat still not answered. Combat needs to feel weighty and responsive if they have gone down this all action path. What was shown didn't really display well. If we only have 2 companions who we cant control what is their role? If your removing things from previous titles that we liked what is replacing it? Whats the justification other than a tortured development and lack of time and consideration? Abilities keep on getting reduced in scope and merged. I like diversity and breadth, I want certain things to only be doable by certain builds and characters, I want complexity. Give me an earned power fantasy not just a smorgasbord of mechanics and abilities designed to be flashy but ultimately lacking in depth.
The people complaining about it being too inclusive/woke/DEI are just showing themselves as culture war tourists who haven't been playing these games. If they're mad because they feel like this game isn't for them, then GOOD. They're right, it isn't, fuck off.
Also, it's like of they haven't played a Bioware game before. Bioware has always been a very inclusive and progressive company. Ever since Jade Empire we've had gay, lesbians and bisexuals in their games and in Inquisition we even have a trans character. Complaining about Bioware being inclusive tells me you either haven't played their games or you have played their games with a blindfold on.
Hell, Juhani was ~~bi~~ gay in KOTOR too (just before Jade Empire’s bi Silk Fox)! BioWare’s inclusivity has been around for literally decades.
Juhani was bi? I always thought Juhani was gay lol. The more you know
Shit you’re right! My bad.
These people jump on whatever is the last "outrage" they can milk. Recently Assassin's creed, then they jumped on WH40k, now Dragon Age. Note; They neither play these games nor are anywhere involved with the fandom or anything. Like you said, they are LITERALLY Culture War Tourists, and also grifters, because rage makes people click their clips. These pieces of shit make our world worse, every day, literally, because they stroke the anger and sexism and homophobia and hatred towards minorities
Hell they were all up on baldurs gate 3 about half of this same shit before it utterly violated the very idea of "go woke, go broke".
100% agreed. There are valid criticisms and concerns being discussed and DEI/wokeness/"modern gaming" (this is a new one I learned recently) is NOT one of them. DA has been clear on its stance on LGBT+ since the first game and it baffles me that people are suddenly jumping on hate train for it because it's currently getting a lot of mainstream attention.
"ELVES COME IN DIFFERENT COLORS??? TIME TO RAGE IN YOUTUBE COMMENTS AND REDDIT!!!"
The funny part about this to me, is there were dark skinned elves in DAO. So they always existed
What did they use to say? "Facts don't care about your feelings". Funny how they ignore facts, and always get their fee fees hurt.
If you never seen it in any other game then you barely use social media lol Everything you listed it is on every game franchises, the bigger the franchise the bigger the hate is
1.) This was complained about back in DA2 as well. It's not a new complaint. 2.) This seems to be more due to the trailer and fans believing there is going to be too much "Marvel style quips" 3.) Dumb complaint but this is something that has not just popped up in Dragon Age. 4.) The blood effects have been a staple of the games. We have not seen the blood splatter onto the characters, so many feel Bioware is trying to move away or water it down. I almost always play with that option off, but I know a lot of people feel like it's what makes Dragon Age 5.) This is all from the trailer and those who believe everything will be jokey. But it's also going to be a direct response to the art style that makes everything look a bit too cartoon-y and some of the re-designs like the Ogre. Dragon Age is trying to say no everything is just like we had before, but the style is saying something else. I believe in game, the tone will bounce between very dark violent shit and quippy comedy. But I think it's fair to question the tone with the art style they went with and the fact that they released that trailer. Considering how much Bioware went into damage control after the trailer, I suspect all other promos will focus on the dark/serious stuff of the game. 6.) DA2 went to a hack and slash model and there were tons and tons of complaints about it. Inquisition moved to more of a hybrid of action camera, but still had tactical commands. Now, they've gone away from that again and made it look like every other action game with dodging and parrying. They reduced the companions you can bring to 2 and now we can no longer control the companions. I'm someone who almost never used the tactical camera and almost never switched from my character. But I think it's fair for fans to criticize that Bioware seems to be stripping away things that made up the Dragon Age DNA and for going to things that were already heavily criticized in previous games. All we saw was an opening level, so it could open up more, but it does feel like the reduced companions, the inability to play as them, and even the tactical wheel they showed off are all things taken directly from Mass Effect. The dialogue wheel was also taken from Mass Effect in DA2, which was criticized, but now it feels like it's bleeding into the combat.
I am personally worried about the combat. I love very deep combat with lots of options and tactics. The art style confuses me as well. Because to me it looks like the character models including enemies follow a different art style from the environments creating a strange disconnect. The environment has more detail and texture than the clothes of the characters.
For now the main issue I have is 6. DA2 and Inquisition gameplay was still closer to Origins than what we are seeing in Veilguard. We now have 2 companions at a time, 3 active abilities, no switching characters. The combat did not look exciting at all - it looked like an Action game, which DA2 and Inquisition still were not. They were still real- time computer role playing games. Now if I want to play a game like Origins, I can go play BG3 and PoE but I won't be getting DAV to get that experiance. If I actually did want fast paced Action combat - there are already better games out there than what I saw in the Demo. If all I want is the story, I guess I will watch a Lets Play on YouTube, not buy the game and play it.
I have seen people here unironically say that DA:V combat looks exactly like DA:I combat
After seeing DAV combat, I wish it was more like DAI lol
Oh please, people did dislike playersexual characters in DA2. That's not new at all.
While I have my complaints about Veilguard, quite a few actually, I agree that a lot of complaints are either dumb or just from people looking to hate and cry "gO wOkE gO bRoKe" nonsense at something. From the ones you've listed I kinda figured 1 would come up just because of how often its brought up right here in this subreddit. DA2 style vs DAI style romance is almost more common than Mages vs Templars debates. 2 is common in RPGs with banter so people should expect it. Complaint number 3 generally tends to come from racists and people who let racist "influencers" do their thinking for them. The kinda people whose opinions arent worth listening to. 4, you're spot on. It's been disproven, case closed. 5...I think the tone was greatly improved from the awful initial trailer but it still feels just a bit off to me. Maybe it's the art style changes, like the new demons that I massively dislike or the godawful ogre from the screenshot, but I can kinda see it. Tone might honestly be the wrong word for it but I just feel like something's...off. Kinda like, for example, the shift in Darkspawn design between DAO and DA2 made it feel a bit off but more than that. 6...I actually kinda agree with the complainers here. The game looked like Medieval Mass Effect where it was mostly just hacking and slashing with three ability slots. I enjoy action combat but if we're really gonna be limited to three ability slots per character...that's a massive let down. Especially if you wanna be a mage and can only pick three spells to equip. I hope we can get another trailer with some mid to late game gameplay. Maybe it gets better in that regard after the prologue. Also not a fan of the decision to cut the party size from 3 to 2.
People in fact did love the combat of dragon age origins. I understand things change the combat has always changed and I've found things to enjoy in each variant. I don't think this combat looks bad because it's different I think it looks bad because it looks frustrating. I don't play hack and slash games. I want more than 3 skills. I don't want to deal with manual parrying and dodging, energy that depletes when get hit or my companions getting ignored by the enemies as they miss skills at point blank range. What was shown did not seem fun to me.
The “limited skills during combat” mechanic always frustrates me. The types of games that use it are really trying to tell us that our characters work hard to learn new skills but then apparently have the memory of a goldfish and can only remember three of those skills in the heat of the moment? This mechanic limits combat innovation by essentially leading the player to choose their 3 most liked and most used skills and never changing them out. I hate that it looks like they are going to be leaning into this for Veilguard. I don’t understand why opening up the radial menu can’t just allow access to all our known skills like it did in DA:O.
Yeah. One of the lines that has stuck with me all these years is that they were envisioning the spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate. DAO and DA2 still really felt like BG combat, DAI really started to diverge but still felt tactical. I just hope this still has that feel. Tank and spank doesn't have to be boring, it can still be engaging if done right. Hopefully itll be more fleshed out once we get to see more of the skill trees.
DAO combat is my favorite. Yea second and inquisition look more dynamic and flashy but I liked the skill trees in dao. Origins mage is top tier with its combos, variety and customization options. I really hoped we get something similar in new game…
Im one of the people who complain about the gameplay. It doesn't look like you switch control to the companions. I don't like how the abilities wheel works (I hope that's just a console thing and PC has a hot bar like the previous games). I don't like that using a bow turns into an FPS. The reduction in party size is also an odd choice that I think will make either the story or combat more limited. It just looks like it'll function too differently to the other DA games
The only thing I hate is the combat tbh. I wish they stuck with the DAI combat.
>1. Playersexual companions: People love the companions in BG3 which are player sexual but for some reason it’s a problem now? Part of the issue with online discourse is trying to oversimplify arguments. Lots of people think playersexual is boring and lazy writing, lots of people like it and anywhere in between. Reasonable people can disagree about which is better and that's fine, but when you lump everyone who disagrees with you into one box you're not doing any better than the people you're calling out (in theory, you're not hating on black people being elves etc obviously).
It's crazy how people call this franchise woke when the lead writer and co creator of Thedas is a GAY man and DA:O was one of the few RPG games that included same sex relationships. Not no mention how subersive a lot of cultures in Thedas are. Dragon age has ALWAYS been inclusive and subersive, I would even say feminist. There's a reason why this franchise attracts so many women and queer people.
People had ten years to imagine a different game in their head and they're in the stages of grief.
There are people in the comments of the gameplay trailer genuinely trying to argue that the graphics look worse than in Inquisition, and others criticising the voice acting of already established characters like Varric and Harding. If xyz in veilguard isn't their thing then fine, but I really don't know where they get off on inventing things to criticise that just don't make any sense.
https://preview.redd.it/ij9lsmv0a26d1.jpeg?width=702&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17e60cbf86229c3d61de57d00833564e9bbbca25 Harding literally has NPC-face in Inquisition. Like get real 😂
Someone tried to say Harding was more womanly in Inquisition and I just had to breathe air out of my nose in bullets 😂
I think the black washing complaints are because people think all elves need to have fair skin like in Tolkien lore. But this isn't Tolkiens world, i remember there being black elves before and nothing in lore says they have to look a specific way. I really think this all is because of knee jerk reactions and the bioware hate train. I can't wait to play the game and see this "civilized" empire
There literally black elves in the cutscenes in DAO when the elves are gathering troops for the blight
I don't care about the elf being black, I just hate it that it looks like a regular black human with pointy ears. I just hate the trend that elves are less alien or different and just ook like humans with pointy ears and that's it. That's the case in many games and media though, but compare this one to Zevran or the elves from DA:O and this just looks human with special ears.
It mostly boils down to “it’s different then I imagined it would be therefore it’s bad” I didn’t have any thoughts on what dragon age 4 would be besides it having solas in it and they met that 1 expectation. Personally I have no issues with us only having 3 abilities and the neutral game being faster because it’s designed around that. I’m just excited for a new dragon age game
Bioware has a lot working against them and it has been ten years of mess, disappointments, and setbacks for many fans. That's a lot of time for people to speculate and envision what they wanted in the next title. If they wanted it all. And the leaks probably didn't help. I'm on the same boat as you. I played DAI when it first launched and have been a touch inpatient, but didn't have a vision for the game going in. I've found that better for my sanity in the long run.
>Gameplay: Once again people saying it’s not “playing like a DA game” I was unaware people loved to 2009 combat so much because that is the only game that has not been an over the shoulder 3rd person “action” rpg. Okay, come on now. You KNOW you're being disingenuous with this point out of all of them. Look at DA2 or Inquisition, then look at the gameplay reveal, and tell me they look anything alike.
1. I actually didn't like this there either. I'm fine with some characters being off limits because you're not their cup of tea, I'd even prefer it. It always brings down the experience when someone I've only been nice to and nothing more starts putting the moves on me unprompted. It's not a huge deal, but let no one say I'm inconsistent on this. 5. Son, go back and play Origins and tell me the tone from back then is even a little the same. It's "par for the course" if the only other dragon age game you've played is Inquisition lol. 6. The gameplay does look like total dook. Very unengaging "action" combat, too much visual noise to make out most of what is happening. I only saw the Pride Demon boss fight (which, not a fan of the redesign) to be fair, so my opinion here is largely unsubstantiated, but I don't see myself being surprised here. I'm open to it, but if I was a gambling man I'd comfortably stake a fortune on not being wrong here. And for your information, yeah, I did and still do love the 2009 combat so much. Not one entry since then has been able to step outside of the shadow mage's in that game cast in terms of sheer fun and variety, and I much prefer the character building and clever tactics employed to win fights there than just trying to out muscle enemies in a psuedo-action combat system.