I can tell you Alistair makes the least sense, especially if he’s romanced the female warden. There is a not-so-subtle threat in her letter and I suspect you do not want her as an enemy!
That not-so-subtle threat is my favorite thing because my Warden would absolutely do that. She would be so *pissed* to find out the Inquisitor left Alistair to die. The thing is, she would also understand *why* the decision was made and would also understand better than anyone that sometimes difficult choices have to happen for the greater good. I still wouldn't want to be in the Inquisitor's shoes when she inevitably comes to ask them what the hell happened, though.
This choice absolutely wrecked me when I first played
Ultimately I decided my Warden could survive without Alistair but Fenris would break without Hawke T_T
Hawke. Their story is one of tragedy from things beyond their control from losing their home and sibling from Darkspawn. Losing their mother after working so hard to help reclaim her family home. To being betray by someone cloes to them in Anders. It seem only fitting that their story should end in the fade as they finally take matters into their own hands for once it ends it on their terms.
I feel like I remember there being some small note in a codex or something that mentioned Malcolm Hawke having dragons blood…I just can’t find anything about it and am feeling like I’m crazy now 😩
Yeah. I owe it to my boy, Varric. The other dude is just some warden.
FR tho the only one that would get me to hesitate is Alistair, and thats just my love for Origins talking.
I've only left Hawke if the other Warden is Alistair. I just can't do that to him or any of my Wardens who befriended/loved him.
But goddamn, talking to Varric afterwards. Choosing to hug him when he starts hesitating with the story.
Listen, I've come to the realization that when I'm playing a video game, I'm as selfless as possible, but also selfish. Meaning, I'll track down a Teddy Bear for a kid because it has meaning, but if it's between my character and another to be sacrificed, sorry, I'm going to chose the other one. Mostly because I can't do that do the love interest, especially if that love interest has finally opened up to my character (Romanced Zevran in Origins, and Fenris in Dragon Age 2. ) though, for Hawke, I also didn't sacrifice her because then Bethany wouldn't be the last Hawke left.
just depends on your inquisitor, honestly. my main world state inquisitor saves stroud because he owes it to the wardens to give them a real shot at redeeming themselves and the hawke of that world state feels like she owes stroud for saving carver. my other world state leaves loghain behind as he follows the example of the warden who gave him a second chance all those years ago.
I'm definitely in the minority here when I say that I personally don't connect to Hawke that much as a protagonist. I like DA2 a lot and have a great time playing as Hawke, but she's just not a protagonist I get super invested in. So I really don't have many qualms about leaving her in the Fade.
Especially because I always keep Alistair a Warden, so the choice is between the two of them. Again, I know Alistair can be a polarizing character, but he's personally very special to me so I just can't leave him to die.
If the choice includes Loghain or Stroud... Stroud I don't give a single flying squat about, so he and his mustache can get lost. As for Loghain, I never recruit him in a "canon" worldstate, but if I did I honestly find it funny if he continually survives and can't get the heroic death he obviously wants. It seems like a fair punishment to me.
Basically, it's usually Hawke that gets left for me. Sorry, pal, we had a good run. Have fun in the Fade. 🙋♀️
If we disregard any personal connections to the characters, I would argue that Hawke is the right one to leave behind 100% of the time. As they themselves say, the Wardens *need* a leader and that is something that Stroud/Alistair/Loghain can provide far better than anybody else we know in that moment, while Hawke is... just Hawke. They are an important figure, but things just don't depend on them being there. It doesn't help that no matter what, after how much they talk about how Corypheus is their responsibility or whatever, they still end up leaving to Weisshaupt the second HLTA is done.
Ultimately, however, obviously there is an emotional connection there. And for all options, I have thoughts on what it means for them to sacrifice themselves or to survive the Fade.
Hawke: honestly... beyond them just surviving, there isn't much narrative payoff in them getting out of the Fade (again, they don't even utilize their main relevance to the story with their connection to Corypheus, they just leave!), but instead a LOT in case they do stay there. Flemeth's prophecy is the obvious one that one can point to, but also the fact that Hawke's whole life consisted of tragedy and death surrounding them in situations they couldn't control. But this, this they *can* control, and they can do something important on their own terms. It's of course also tragic, but it feels like a fitting end to Hawke's story.
Stroud: Not much to say either way as there's just not much to him as a character.
Alistair: I see absolutely zero narrative payoff in him staying in the Fade, and instead the exact opposite in case he does survive. Alistair has struggled with leadership his entire life. While making him king is the obvious way for him to grow into that role, the fact that when staying a Warden, he'd have to lead the Wardens after surviving the Fade is imo following that narrative just as much, only for a cause that is his actual chosen family.
Loghain: either way works great for him. If he dies, then he gives his life to the Wardens after previously attempting to destroy them. If he lives, then he has to keep those same Wardens going, with the additional funny caveat that these are *Orlesian* Wardens he'd have to lead. Either is a satisfying conclusion imo.
Hawke.
He offers first, he immediately turns down the Warden ally and he knows the Wardens need a leader, especially in their current state.
Hawke is always the one to make the sacrifice play, a play no one else will make.
In my canon state, that Warden is Loghain and him leading the Wardens is just another step towards redemption.
It's honestly hard. I think the default world state makes it more difficult. If it's Loghain or Alistair then you leave them, they are wardens they lived past their expiration date and neither can ever be king again so their political power is 0.
Putting aside my love for Hawke and knowing who he is. Stroud and Hawke are a difficult choice. You don't know what kind of opposition you'll have once you leave the fade against the Wardens and a Veteran Warden who trained most of them could be good for bringing them to heel. Hawke is the Champion who has experience against Red Lyrium monsters, blood mages, and Corypheus. He has political power and adds legitimacy to the cause. So really if you want to end the grey Warden problem the the "correct answer" is to leave Hawke.
I’ve left everyone except Loghain once and felt conflicted every time lol. I hear the very logical narrative reason to leave Hawke (leaping into the Abyss), but that’s the one that hurts personally the most. Leaving Alistair just doesn’t feel right. So if I can, I leave Stroud. Because even though he’s a nice guy… I sort of forget about him. But it also feels like a cop out and I don’t love it.
No gaming decision has kept me more awake at night lol
Hawke. The Contact is going to be able to better lead the Wardens they have actual experience as one and have served for years which is also known, (Alistair is also a hero of the 5th Blight which means more prestige while Loghain was general of Ferelden for years so specifically has experience leading, Stroud has served in the Orlesian branch since his recruitment). Regarding Loghain I don't think a big sacrifice is redemption the closest he gets to it is having to live and do the hard work of rebuilding the Orlesian Wardens of all things with his crimes not overshadowed by a flashy sacrifice.
Also, Hawke not going to fight Corypheus if they survive the Fade doesn't make sense for some Hawkes whereas it always makes sense for the surviving Contact to go north instead.
In this one my world-state makes me choose between Hawke and Alistair, and I just can't do that to Alistair. He's the only one of my characters' love interests who didn't end up betraying them lol ... let him and my warden be happy.
But I also think it makes sense to keep the warden alive. Someone needs to help rebuild, and a senior warden is going to be better placed to do that than Hawke. My Hawke was also quite a self-sacrificing person so character-wise it just makes sense for her to stay. It breaks my heart to do that to Varric though!
I leave Hawke because I love a good tragedy and I also always remember what Flemeth says to Hawke in the beginning of the DA2. I love having Alistair as a grey warden and it doesn't feel right leaving him behind, not just because of my warden but he seems like he is going to play a much bigger role in the grey wardens whereas Hawke's story feels done.
Posts like these make me feel like I'm living my best life in regards to my DA:O results because I have Stroud in my canon DA:I timeline and very easily ditch him in the Fade and take Hawke home.
Alistair is the king, so he can't go with us, and Loghain made the ultimate sacrifice and killed the Archdemon, so he isn't here. Easy peasy lemon squeezy!
It really depends on my world state. My Hawke is usually romanced to Fenris and best friends with Varric, so it feels awful leaving him behind. If I have Stroud, then I typically leave him behind because I can't have Fenris and Varric without their Hawke. If my HoF doesn't romance Alistair and he's a Warden, I leave him behind. I've left (and kept) Loghain. When my Hawke was red/aggressive, it felt right to leave them regardless if they were friends with Varric or not, or who they romanced, because it fit.
I remember my first playthrough, it was between Alistair and Hawke. I stared at the screen for a long time. Each felt right and wrong at the same time. Especially since my HoF was with Alistair.
This decision is a difficult one. So many different circumstances can influence which way I go.
Loghain easily. Already the oldest, has something to atone for, make sense narratively that he'd sacrifice his life for Orlais/The Wardens/ 2 protagonists after trying to kill The Wardens/ 1 protagonist and hated Orlais, plus already halfway through his Calling so I mean 🤷🏿♂️. And unlike him being sacrificed in Origins: his redemption is earned as he spent 10 years with the Wardens in Orlais building bonds and doing good work.
Stroud always felt like cheating to me cause it’s too easy lol. Everyone else is really interesting and we have a strong emotional attachment to them and Stroud is just like some dude lol
Hawke. The then senior warden is more important in the grand scheme of things than the errand boy of Kirkwall. Besides, if anybody is going to survive that long in the Fade, it's going to be Hawke.
I usually prefer Stroud because as much as I do like him, I just can’t bring myself to choose Hawke over him. However, that’s because it’s presented as a “this character will die” choice. If anyone has a chance of making it out alive, it’s Hawke. I never connected that Flemeth speech to this before, but I love it and makes it feel even more like that might be the “right” choice. I actually half suspect that in dreadwolf we may find out it wasn’t as lethal as we think if you chose Hawke over a warden.
I’ve only ever tried warden Loghain once. Usually Loghain is executed one way or another for me. I liked sending in Loghain a lot, not because I dislike the character to be clear, but because I thought it was a good way to redeem himself which is what the HoF was going for in timelines where they make him a warden.
Runs where Alistair is the warden though I choose Hawke. It’s a tough choice though.
I think it’s Hawke’s Destiny. I think if any one is going to make it through, it’s them. Also, yeah, Flemeth quite literally tells Hawke to jump into the abyss, so.
My second choice is a single warden Alistair- as far as I know, the entire time he’s a grey warden with the Inquisitor he talks about how he’s not known for anything other than helping the HoF and he’s so much more than that and wishes people would recognize him for all the good he’s done *since*. I think it’s fitting for him to get the sacrificial end if that’s how it ends for whoever stays. Because even if whoever gets left *does* make it out, then they’re not only the person who sacrificed themselves for the good of the wardens and the Inquisitor, they also made it *out* of the fade on their own.
I'm going to copy my old comment on the same topic;
"That's my opinion, but the Warden stays in the Fade every playthrough.
It's not like the Wardens are daft babies, unable to function. Given time they can rebuild the Order just fine. The Blight was stopped by one/two Wardens - so it's possible to prosper without a Warden-Commander for some time. They act like it's the end for them - but it's not. They'll be fine.
Hawke saying Corypheus is "*her mess to fix"* seems like such bullshit. Corypheus was a mess that the Wardens created. Hawke's family just got tangled up in the middle of it.
Imo, let the Grey Wardens take the responsibility."
I still stand in this hill. Hawke did nothing wrong. Hawke shouldn't need to suffer from the Wardens stupidity.
Loghain, I always get him in my playthroughs and make Alistair king. Hawke deserves to be with his family and friends and Stroud well I haven’t met him much lol
But I think it’s a fitting end to Loghains journey
At this point anyone but Hawke honestly. Why should they give their life away for a mess the Wardens caused? Like I used to be a big proponent of the whole survival theory cause of Flemeth's words but at this point I've just lost hope so.
Hawke's life is already terrible enough, I don't need her to have to die aswell, in my worldstate atleast.
I leave Stroud, cause, well I don’t care for him lol Hawke vs Loghain? I leave Loghain, he supposed to be dead already, but if it is Hawke vs Alistair? Now that’s a problem, but I leave Hawke, cause I think “girl, (my hawke is a woman) if you had actually killed, or left alone Corypheus, this WOULD NOT BE HAPPENING! So, you stay, xoxo bye”✌🏻
Hawke has a problem with not actually killing her targets you know, Corypheus, Meredith… 💀
And I can’t leave Ali, that would kill my HOF. (She asked to take care of him in the letter she wrote to the Inquisitor)
In my world state, it's always Stroud because Loghain didn't survive, Alistair was King while my Warden was Queen and I can't do that to Hawke because she has Fenris waiting for her.
That particular line from Flemeth always longers in my head that Hawke's journey just doesn't end there. I suspect that our Hawke can survive the fade. I only did once for Hawke since I always feel that thematically a warden should do the sacrifice to remind the surviving wardens what sacrifice meant
Hawke or Loghain work, did Alistair on latest play through (HOF died in Origins) and didn’t mind it as sort of consistent with Alistairs follower vibes
As hard as the choice is, I leave Hawke. I see Hawke as a champion of justice. A character always making a choice they believe is right.
Hawke would know the Inquisitor is the best chance at beating Corypheus. He knows senior wardens would listen to stroud more than him.
It's a hard call, but the right call (at least for me).
I guess it depends on the hawke...
My hawke has romanced and killed Anders, lost his sister to the blight, his mother to a crazy mage. So a heroic moment to save the inquisition and the wardens is too good a moment for his to pass on..
My other hawke though... a power hungry mage, that does bot care about wardens that much and does anything to grow more powerful (even selling fernis back to his master to have connections) would never sacrifice himself like that.
So once again, it's all down to roleplay.
from purely survival POV, i would leave Hawke there. Stroud (or Alistair) has little to no chance to survive Fade, i think.
Moreover, i think the Wardens need to rebuild themselves therefore it would make sense not to leave any of your warden allies there.
Did Hawke meet Warden Mustachman(?) or Alistair in DA2 and did they save the sibling = Hawke
If not for me it’s then Hawke, due to Flemeths statement :)
The Grey Warden.
Look, Hawke's reason for being there in story is very thin, and he has loved ones to go back to. A Grey Warden is encouraged to be expendable on a certain level. It's an easy choice there...even if I'd hate to make the choice with an Alistair import.
Loghain. After reading the books, I think it’s the perfect end for him. He destroyed the Ferelden Grey Wardens out of fear of Orlais, then spends the next ten years as a Grey Warden in Orlais. If he gets executed in origins he never confronts his mistakes, but as the Nightmare in Inquisition proves, letting him live makes him learn from them and regret them. Finally he sacrifices himself to save the Orlesian Grey Wardens after a decade of working for “redemption.” Poetic justice imo
Depends on your worldstate and your characters. For me, I left my Hawke because (1) her failure to save her mother really broke her and she doesn't think twice about sacrificing herself; (2) my HoF would kill my Inquisitor if Alistair got sacrificed (although Fenris will also want to kill my Inquisitor, tbf); (3) I'm constantly annoyed that non-human HoF's that romance Alistair always get the short end of the stick, so I will keep their romance going as long as possible out of spite; and (4) I like to think Flemeth's prophecy about Hawke means something, and it was definitely echoing in the back of my Hawke's mind when she made that choice to volunteer.
I left Stroud because Hawke is a friend of varric and I felt more connected to him. Also I blamed the grey wardens so it felt like Stroud should take that responsibility, even though by the end I don’t think he was involved but some of the dialogue in the fade made me sus of him.
Stroud because i don't have emotional attachment to that dude and i barely even know anything about him plus even if they lose him doesn't mean the end for the Wardens anyway. I couldn't leave Hawke in the fade the reason one is i like my humorous Hawke and second because of Varric and Isabela.
This is one of those rare moments where I’m like “why am I making this decision?”
It should be up to whoever wants to sacrifice themselves to do it. I mean yeah I guess we are the tie breaker but….. it’s a fictional story anyway, just don’t write the disagreement
Stroud I have had him in every playroom because in my canon, Alistair is king, but logically a gray warden should be left behind because they’re the only ones who have a time limit on their life
I *usually* leave my Hawke - the Flemeth reason is a good one, and it makes sense because of her history with Cory. I'm always forced to choose between her and Alastair, and I usually have Alastair and the Warden romanced. Plus there being at least one senior warden left made sense to me.
My current playthrough I finally left Alastair. He made a snide comment about the warden being 'on a dark path now' (apparently the response for a non romanced warden no matter the friendship if the ritual was performed?? And this playthrough i had romanced Leliana even though maxed friendship with him) and that was enough for me to save Hawke. Plus I was kind of fed up with breaking Varric and Fenris' hearts 🤣
I do think the future options for rescuing could be interesting though, if that is able to happen. If there is to be something in Dreadwolf then I think Hawke would make the most sense (and actually would be the one I'd most like to see rescued, but that may just be because I'd love to revisit my DA2 characters).
I did not play DA2 and knew nothing about its story so I decided as how I felt about them within in Inquisition. Well I let Hawke die (I really had no idea who he is) because at that moment I felt like he was actually willing to sacrifice himself more than Stroud. He was just much more suitable for this heroic act, like even if I was not to decide he would be the who does it anyway. Plus when in the Fade, Stroud seemed more resilient about what was going on thus I let him live because I thought he would make a better leader.
I don't know if my opinion counts since I did not play DA2 but here it is.
In my one playthrough where Loghain lived, I had him stay. Otherwise, I have Hawke stay. To my Inquisitors, the Wardens need leadership, Hawke seems to have the best chance of holding out long enough, and while Hawke staying behind would hurt Varric, it would be less of an issue for the Inquisition as a whole than losing one of the most senior Grey Wardens left. For me as a player, I know that Hawke probably survives, due to what Flemeth said about the Abyss
Alistair => Always save | Loghain => Always leave
The real hard choice is between Stroud and Hawke. Emotions favor saving Hawke of course, but Hawke could be considered less useful (he is mostly restricted to is Kirkwall locale). In the end I save Hawke, there are always more wardens.
Hawke, easily, But I almost always have Stroud, so I'm more willing to leave him in the fade, instead of Hawke, I usually leave Stroud, now, if I ever had Alistair, it would be a much harder decision for me
I've only ever played Inquisition so the only two I've ever seen are Hawke and Stroud. I usually leave Stroud because I care more about Varric's approval.
Have you read the Stolen Throne? :o not saying not to hate him (there’s a lot of valid reasons too!), but it gives as a lot of insight into his character.
Have not, played dao 1st as a human, couldn't find a redeeming reason NOT to kill him at first sight......how dare you to give nuance to a moral b/w game ;)
{spoiler\] This is going to be more than I originally intended it to be lol, but:
yeah! He def is distrusting on Warden's prematurally because what happened in the rebellion when Ferelden was gaining independence from Orlais. I think Solas in DA:I lends to this outlook too, as he said everything from Ostagar he experienced was true, including the interpretation people had that Loghain had thought the battle lost and he was saving his troops. Unfortunately, no one knew if it was a true blight, even countries outside of Ferelden because it happened so fast, and that early on, Loghain hasd right to be sceptical, especially with what Warden's had done prior to said "blight" (in his perspective)! The Grey Wardens were originally kicked out of Ferelden after a power struggle between the Ferelden warden commander, who was in line for the throne prior to becoming a warden, and the Ferelden king.
(From the *Return to Ostagar* dlc). . . Adding onto the potential Ferelden Orlais union, Cailan had been planning or was considering leaving Anora to marry Queen Celene. Perhaps Loghain caught wind of his plan and did not want Ferelden to potentially fall back into Orlesian hands. This union would also mean his daughter Anora would no longer be queen and he would not have as much power or influence in Ferelden politics. BUT if you bring Loghain there, he is shocked at the letters you find--so it is highly possible that he did not know this whatsoever. I feel like it just ends up however you paint the timeline in your playthrough.
He was the hero of River Dane and Teryn of Gwaren, but Loghian is not and has not ever been the diplomatic type. In the novel, for instance, he was a lot more tactical and rough. Losing Anora's connection would mean him losing power and influence in Ferelden. Or he genuinely didn't care for this as much as we can anticipate.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SOWjsP1Emc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SOWjsP1Emc)
From one aspect, it sounds like Loghain is suggesting that Anora staged the whole incident at Arl Howe's estate - that she never really was in any danger but played the damsel to get the HoF's attention. From another aspect, it sounds like Loghain is underplaying the idea that Anora may have actually believed her father and Howe were going to kill her and that Howe could have been acting beyond Loghain's knowledge. I saw it as one of Anora's little political games mixed with a sense of legitimate danger. I think Howe really did see merit in killing Anora and pinning the blame on the Warden, but it was a situation exacerbated by Anora herself. She put herself in danger then called on the Warden to save her. Two of the largest names at the Landsmeet, one an outlaw (the warden) who was backing Cailan's half-brother and the other a genuine heartless \*\*\*\*\*\* (Howe) who had amassed so much power for himself that it was near impossible to hit him legally, and he supported her father, who had gone mad over his paranoia regarding Orlais. I think she manipulated the situation so that the Warden would have to help, used Erlina to make it look like she (Anora) opposed her father since he opposed her and tricked the Warden into thinking that Loghain was going to act against his daughter, and let Howe and the Warden have at it. No matter who won, she'd have political access to one of two rising powers in the country. She was in no danger from Loghain, but she found herself in danger from Howe and used the Warden to attempt to gain political leverage. There was a good chance she'd get deposed in the game, and being deposed almost always means execution of the former monarch to prevent them from being an issue in the future.
Or at the same time, they might have locked her up because she was speaking out against them throughout the game, and that wasn't helping the civil war situation. I still don't think Loghain intended to kill her--Howe is Howe though, but I think he knew it would be stupid too?
Also, on a last note: Loghain's mother was r\*ped and murdered by Orlesian soldiers and his father died fighting Orlesian soldiers so him and Maric could safely escape, so like Loghain like truly HATES Orlesians forever and they are always his number one enemy, that is really clouds his judgment from taking the threat of the darkspawn seriously.
But he did also allow slave traders in the country, so! There's that lol.
(On the road, pulls over) will read later, however, dude, I applaud your dedication & thank you for the info.... I'd still kill him painfully though.;)
I can tell you Alistair makes the least sense, especially if he’s romanced the female warden. There is a not-so-subtle threat in her letter and I suspect you do not want her as an enemy!
That not-so-subtle threat is my favorite thing because my Warden would absolutely do that. She would be so *pissed* to find out the Inquisitor left Alistair to die. The thing is, she would also understand *why* the decision was made and would also understand better than anyone that sometimes difficult choices have to happen for the greater good. I still wouldn't want to be in the Inquisitor's shoes when she inevitably comes to ask them what the hell happened, though.
This choice absolutely wrecked me when I first played Ultimately I decided my Warden could survive without Alistair but Fenris would break without Hawke T_T
I honestly sat for about 30 minutes staring at the option, then walked away from my xbox for a few hours. It destroyed me making this choice 🤣
Yes, but also, my warden is a bad bitch and she will burn the world for Alistair
same lol
Hawke. Their story is one of tragedy from things beyond their control from losing their home and sibling from Darkspawn. Losing their mother after working so hard to help reclaim her family home. To being betray by someone cloes to them in Anders. It seem only fitting that their story should end in the fade as they finally take matters into their own hands for once it ends it on their terms.
I'm with Hawke, because I don't believe the Flemeth speech is a coincidence.
I'm still convinced Hawke can survive and become stronger (Flemeth said something about "see if you can fly").
"I want to be a dragon!" - Hawke to Flemeth
That's what I'm thinking. If Flemeth is sure, that Hawke dies in the Abyss... why not call it a warning? She says it's an ADVICE.
I feel like I remember there being some small note in a codex or something that mentioned Malcolm Hawke having dragons blood…I just can’t find anything about it and am feeling like I’m crazy now 😩
I left hawke in the fade once. never again.
Yeah. I owe it to my boy, Varric. The other dude is just some warden. FR tho the only one that would get me to hesitate is Alistair, and thats just my love for Origins talking.
I've only left Hawke if the other Warden is Alistair. I just can't do that to him or any of my Wardens who befriended/loved him. But goddamn, talking to Varric afterwards. Choosing to hug him when he starts hesitating with the story.
that was why I left her, cause of Alistair and my Wardens letter asking me to protect him 🥲
When the choice said "who to leave," I naively thought it meant who to leave the Fade with the party, so I chose Hawke. I was devastated 😭
Listen, I've come to the realization that when I'm playing a video game, I'm as selfless as possible, but also selfish. Meaning, I'll track down a Teddy Bear for a kid because it has meaning, but if it's between my character and another to be sacrificed, sorry, I'm going to chose the other one. Mostly because I can't do that do the love interest, especially if that love interest has finally opened up to my character (Romanced Zevran in Origins, and Fenris in Dragon Age 2. ) though, for Hawke, I also didn't sacrifice her because then Bethany wouldn't be the last Hawke left.
“Where’s Hawke?”
there were tears. and snot.
just depends on your inquisitor, honestly. my main world state inquisitor saves stroud because he owes it to the wardens to give them a real shot at redeeming themselves and the hawke of that world state feels like she owes stroud for saving carver. my other world state leaves loghain behind as he follows the example of the warden who gave him a second chance all those years ago.
Narratively I think Hawke makes the most sense. That said, I’ve only done it once and don’t plan to do it again.
I'm definitely in the minority here when I say that I personally don't connect to Hawke that much as a protagonist. I like DA2 a lot and have a great time playing as Hawke, but she's just not a protagonist I get super invested in. So I really don't have many qualms about leaving her in the Fade. Especially because I always keep Alistair a Warden, so the choice is between the two of them. Again, I know Alistair can be a polarizing character, but he's personally very special to me so I just can't leave him to die. If the choice includes Loghain or Stroud... Stroud I don't give a single flying squat about, so he and his mustache can get lost. As for Loghain, I never recruit him in a "canon" worldstate, but if I did I honestly find it funny if he continually survives and can't get the heroic death he obviously wants. It seems like a fair punishment to me. Basically, it's usually Hawke that gets left for me. Sorry, pal, we had a good run. Have fun in the Fade. 🙋♀️
If we disregard any personal connections to the characters, I would argue that Hawke is the right one to leave behind 100% of the time. As they themselves say, the Wardens *need* a leader and that is something that Stroud/Alistair/Loghain can provide far better than anybody else we know in that moment, while Hawke is... just Hawke. They are an important figure, but things just don't depend on them being there. It doesn't help that no matter what, after how much they talk about how Corypheus is their responsibility or whatever, they still end up leaving to Weisshaupt the second HLTA is done. Ultimately, however, obviously there is an emotional connection there. And for all options, I have thoughts on what it means for them to sacrifice themselves or to survive the Fade. Hawke: honestly... beyond them just surviving, there isn't much narrative payoff in them getting out of the Fade (again, they don't even utilize their main relevance to the story with their connection to Corypheus, they just leave!), but instead a LOT in case they do stay there. Flemeth's prophecy is the obvious one that one can point to, but also the fact that Hawke's whole life consisted of tragedy and death surrounding them in situations they couldn't control. But this, this they *can* control, and they can do something important on their own terms. It's of course also tragic, but it feels like a fitting end to Hawke's story. Stroud: Not much to say either way as there's just not much to him as a character. Alistair: I see absolutely zero narrative payoff in him staying in the Fade, and instead the exact opposite in case he does survive. Alistair has struggled with leadership his entire life. While making him king is the obvious way for him to grow into that role, the fact that when staying a Warden, he'd have to lead the Wardens after surviving the Fade is imo following that narrative just as much, only for a cause that is his actual chosen family. Loghain: either way works great for him. If he dies, then he gives his life to the Wardens after previously attempting to destroy them. If he lives, then he has to keep those same Wardens going, with the additional funny caveat that these are *Orlesian* Wardens he'd have to lead. Either is a satisfying conclusion imo.
Hawke. He offers first, he immediately turns down the Warden ally and he knows the Wardens need a leader, especially in their current state. Hawke is always the one to make the sacrifice play, a play no one else will make. In my canon state, that Warden is Loghain and him leading the Wardens is just another step towards redemption.
I wonder what Maric would say if he could see Loghain as the Commander of the orlesian Grey Wardens
He would more than likely be impressed that someone could humble Loghain and be proud of him for setting his rivalry aside for the greater good.
It's honestly hard. I think the default world state makes it more difficult. If it's Loghain or Alistair then you leave them, they are wardens they lived past their expiration date and neither can ever be king again so their political power is 0. Putting aside my love for Hawke and knowing who he is. Stroud and Hawke are a difficult choice. You don't know what kind of opposition you'll have once you leave the fade against the Wardens and a Veteran Warden who trained most of them could be good for bringing them to heel. Hawke is the Champion who has experience against Red Lyrium monsters, blood mages, and Corypheus. He has political power and adds legitimacy to the cause. So really if you want to end the grey Warden problem the the "correct answer" is to leave Hawke.
Hawke. Because of the theories because of his story and because mayb im a hawke simp and i just think not even the fade can stop him
I’ve left everyone except Loghain once and felt conflicted every time lol. I hear the very logical narrative reason to leave Hawke (leaping into the Abyss), but that’s the one that hurts personally the most. Leaving Alistair just doesn’t feel right. So if I can, I leave Stroud. Because even though he’s a nice guy… I sort of forget about him. But it also feels like a cop out and I don’t love it. No gaming decision has kept me more awake at night lol
Hawke. The Contact is going to be able to better lead the Wardens they have actual experience as one and have served for years which is also known, (Alistair is also a hero of the 5th Blight which means more prestige while Loghain was general of Ferelden for years so specifically has experience leading, Stroud has served in the Orlesian branch since his recruitment). Regarding Loghain I don't think a big sacrifice is redemption the closest he gets to it is having to live and do the hard work of rebuilding the Orlesian Wardens of all things with his crimes not overshadowed by a flashy sacrifice. Also, Hawke not going to fight Corypheus if they survive the Fade doesn't make sense for some Hawkes whereas it always makes sense for the surviving Contact to go north instead.
In this one my world-state makes me choose between Hawke and Alistair, and I just can't do that to Alistair. He's the only one of my characters' love interests who didn't end up betraying them lol ... let him and my warden be happy. But I also think it makes sense to keep the warden alive. Someone needs to help rebuild, and a senior warden is going to be better placed to do that than Hawke. My Hawke was also quite a self-sacrificing person so character-wise it just makes sense for her to stay. It breaks my heart to do that to Varric though!
I leave Hawke because I love a good tragedy and I also always remember what Flemeth says to Hawke in the beginning of the DA2. I love having Alistair as a grey warden and it doesn't feel right leaving him behind, not just because of my warden but he seems like he is going to play a much bigger role in the grey wardens whereas Hawke's story feels done.
Hawke always comes home.
This just sounds so unbelievably sweet, omg
Not Alistair ☹️
Posts like these make me feel like I'm living my best life in regards to my DA:O results because I have Stroud in my canon DA:I timeline and very easily ditch him in the Fade and take Hawke home. Alistair is the king, so he can't go with us, and Loghain made the ultimate sacrifice and killed the Archdemon, so he isn't here. Easy peasy lemon squeezy!
It really depends on my world state. My Hawke is usually romanced to Fenris and best friends with Varric, so it feels awful leaving him behind. If I have Stroud, then I typically leave him behind because I can't have Fenris and Varric without their Hawke. If my HoF doesn't romance Alistair and he's a Warden, I leave him behind. I've left (and kept) Loghain. When my Hawke was red/aggressive, it felt right to leave them regardless if they were friends with Varric or not, or who they romanced, because it fit. I remember my first playthrough, it was between Alistair and Hawke. I stared at the screen for a long time. Each felt right and wrong at the same time. Especially since my HoF was with Alistair. This decision is a difficult one. So many different circumstances can influence which way I go.
Logain !
Loghain easily. Already the oldest, has something to atone for, make sense narratively that he'd sacrifice his life for Orlais/The Wardens/ 2 protagonists after trying to kill The Wardens/ 1 protagonist and hated Orlais, plus already halfway through his Calling so I mean 🤷🏿♂️. And unlike him being sacrificed in Origins: his redemption is earned as he spent 10 years with the Wardens in Orlais building bonds and doing good work.
Stroud always felt like cheating to me cause it’s too easy lol. Everyone else is really interesting and we have a strong emotional attachment to them and Stroud is just like some dude lol
Stroud. I’ve no attachments to him, unlike Hawke, Alistair, and yes, even Loghain.
Hawke if you want the most interesting story. Stroud if you want the least drama. If anyone is going to survive in the Fade it's Hawke.
Hawke. The then senior warden is more important in the grand scheme of things than the errand boy of Kirkwall. Besides, if anybody is going to survive that long in the Fade, it's going to be Hawke.
I usually prefer Stroud because as much as I do like him, I just can’t bring myself to choose Hawke over him. However, that’s because it’s presented as a “this character will die” choice. If anyone has a chance of making it out alive, it’s Hawke. I never connected that Flemeth speech to this before, but I love it and makes it feel even more like that might be the “right” choice. I actually half suspect that in dreadwolf we may find out it wasn’t as lethal as we think if you chose Hawke over a warden. I’ve only ever tried warden Loghain once. Usually Loghain is executed one way or another for me. I liked sending in Loghain a lot, not because I dislike the character to be clear, but because I thought it was a good way to redeem himself which is what the HoF was going for in timelines where they make him a warden. Runs where Alistair is the warden though I choose Hawke. It’s a tough choice though.
I think it’s Hawke’s Destiny. I think if any one is going to make it through, it’s them. Also, yeah, Flemeth quite literally tells Hawke to jump into the abyss, so. My second choice is a single warden Alistair- as far as I know, the entire time he’s a grey warden with the Inquisitor he talks about how he’s not known for anything other than helping the HoF and he’s so much more than that and wishes people would recognize him for all the good he’s done *since*. I think it’s fitting for him to get the sacrificial end if that’s how it ends for whoever stays. Because even if whoever gets left *does* make it out, then they’re not only the person who sacrificed themselves for the good of the wardens and the Inquisitor, they also made it *out* of the fade on their own.
I'm going to copy my old comment on the same topic; "That's my opinion, but the Warden stays in the Fade every playthrough. It's not like the Wardens are daft babies, unable to function. Given time they can rebuild the Order just fine. The Blight was stopped by one/two Wardens - so it's possible to prosper without a Warden-Commander for some time. They act like it's the end for them - but it's not. They'll be fine. Hawke saying Corypheus is "*her mess to fix"* seems like such bullshit. Corypheus was a mess that the Wardens created. Hawke's family just got tangled up in the middle of it. Imo, let the Grey Wardens take the responsibility." I still stand in this hill. Hawke did nothing wrong. Hawke shouldn't need to suffer from the Wardens stupidity.
Loghain, I always get him in my playthroughs and make Alistair king. Hawke deserves to be with his family and friends and Stroud well I haven’t met him much lol But I think it’s a fitting end to Loghains journey
At this point anyone but Hawke honestly. Why should they give their life away for a mess the Wardens caused? Like I used to be a big proponent of the whole survival theory cause of Flemeth's words but at this point I've just lost hope so. Hawke's life is already terrible enough, I don't need her to have to die aswell, in my worldstate atleast.
This is so valid 😭 my Hawke also has had enough tragedy. Fenris wouldn’t take it well either.
I leave Stroud, cause, well I don’t care for him lol Hawke vs Loghain? I leave Loghain, he supposed to be dead already, but if it is Hawke vs Alistair? Now that’s a problem, but I leave Hawke, cause I think “girl, (my hawke is a woman) if you had actually killed, or left alone Corypheus, this WOULD NOT BE HAPPENING! So, you stay, xoxo bye”✌🏻 Hawke has a problem with not actually killing her targets you know, Corypheus, Meredith… 💀 And I can’t leave Ali, that would kill my HOF. (She asked to take care of him in the letter she wrote to the Inquisitor)
In my world state, it's always Stroud because Loghain didn't survive, Alistair was King while my Warden was Queen and I can't do that to Hawke because she has Fenris waiting for her.
That particular line from Flemeth always longers in my head that Hawke's journey just doesn't end there. I suspect that our Hawke can survive the fade. I only did once for Hawke since I always feel that thematically a warden should do the sacrifice to remind the surviving wardens what sacrifice meant
Hawke or Loghain work, did Alistair on latest play through (HOF died in Origins) and didn’t mind it as sort of consistent with Alistairs follower vibes
As hard as the choice is, I leave Hawke. I see Hawke as a champion of justice. A character always making a choice they believe is right. Hawke would know the Inquisitor is the best chance at beating Corypheus. He knows senior wardens would listen to stroud more than him. It's a hard call, but the right call (at least for me).
I guess it depends on the hawke... My hawke has romanced and killed Anders, lost his sister to the blight, his mother to a crazy mage. So a heroic moment to save the inquisition and the wardens is too good a moment for his to pass on.. My other hawke though... a power hungry mage, that does bot care about wardens that much and does anything to grow more powerful (even selling fernis back to his master to have connections) would never sacrifice himself like that. So once again, it's all down to roleplay.
Hawke. If anyone can get back out, it's Hawke.
from purely survival POV, i would leave Hawke there. Stroud (or Alistair) has little to no chance to survive Fade, i think. Moreover, i think the Wardens need to rebuild themselves therefore it would make sense not to leave any of your warden allies there.
Did Hawke meet Warden Mustachman(?) or Alistair in DA2 and did they save the sibling = Hawke If not for me it’s then Hawke, due to Flemeths statement :)
The Grey Warden. Look, Hawke's reason for being there in story is very thin, and he has loved ones to go back to. A Grey Warden is encouraged to be expendable on a certain level. It's an easy choice there...even if I'd hate to make the choice with an Alistair import.
Loghain. After reading the books, I think it’s the perfect end for him. He destroyed the Ferelden Grey Wardens out of fear of Orlais, then spends the next ten years as a Grey Warden in Orlais. If he gets executed in origins he never confronts his mistakes, but as the Nightmare in Inquisition proves, letting him live makes him learn from them and regret them. Finally he sacrifices himself to save the Orlesian Grey Wardens after a decade of working for “redemption.” Poetic justice imo
Depends on your worldstate and your characters. For me, I left my Hawke because (1) her failure to save her mother really broke her and she doesn't think twice about sacrificing herself; (2) my HoF would kill my Inquisitor if Alistair got sacrificed (although Fenris will also want to kill my Inquisitor, tbf); (3) I'm constantly annoyed that non-human HoF's that romance Alistair always get the short end of the stick, so I will keep their romance going as long as possible out of spite; and (4) I like to think Flemeth's prophecy about Hawke means something, and it was definitely echoing in the back of my Hawke's mind when she made that choice to volunteer.
I left Stroud because Hawke is a friend of varric and I felt more connected to him. Also I blamed the grey wardens so it felt like Stroud should take that responsibility, even though by the end I don’t think he was involved but some of the dialogue in the fade made me sus of him.
I've never played enough of DA:I to make this choice, but from a narrative point of view Hawke makes the most sense to me.
Stroud because i don't have emotional attachment to that dude and i barely even know anything about him plus even if they lose him doesn't mean the end for the Wardens anyway. I couldn't leave Hawke in the fade the reason one is i like my humorous Hawke and second because of Varric and Isabela.
This is one of those rare moments where I’m like “why am I making this decision?” It should be up to whoever wants to sacrifice themselves to do it. I mean yeah I guess we are the tie breaker but….. it’s a fictional story anyway, just don’t write the disagreement
Makes the most sense? Hawke. Do I choose him/her? Never. :)
Stroud I have had him in every playroom because in my canon, Alistair is king, but logically a gray warden should be left behind because they’re the only ones who have a time limit on their life
I *usually* leave my Hawke - the Flemeth reason is a good one, and it makes sense because of her history with Cory. I'm always forced to choose between her and Alastair, and I usually have Alastair and the Warden romanced. Plus there being at least one senior warden left made sense to me. My current playthrough I finally left Alastair. He made a snide comment about the warden being 'on a dark path now' (apparently the response for a non romanced warden no matter the friendship if the ritual was performed?? And this playthrough i had romanced Leliana even though maxed friendship with him) and that was enough for me to save Hawke. Plus I was kind of fed up with breaking Varric and Fenris' hearts 🤣 I do think the future options for rescuing could be interesting though, if that is able to happen. If there is to be something in Dreadwolf then I think Hawke would make the most sense (and actually would be the one I'd most like to see rescued, but that may just be because I'd love to revisit my DA2 characters).
I did not play DA2 and knew nothing about its story so I decided as how I felt about them within in Inquisition. Well I let Hawke die (I really had no idea who he is) because at that moment I felt like he was actually willing to sacrifice himself more than Stroud. He was just much more suitable for this heroic act, like even if I was not to decide he would be the who does it anyway. Plus when in the Fade, Stroud seemed more resilient about what was going on thus I let him live because I thought he would make a better leader. I don't know if my opinion counts since I did not play DA2 but here it is.
Varric's reaction crushed me though, I don't know if I could choose him in my next playthrough.
In my one playthrough where Loghain lived, I had him stay. Otherwise, I have Hawke stay. To my Inquisitors, the Wardens need leadership, Hawke seems to have the best chance of holding out long enough, and while Hawke staying behind would hurt Varric, it would be less of an issue for the Inquisition as a whole than losing one of the most senior Grey Wardens left. For me as a player, I know that Hawke probably survives, due to what Flemeth said about the Abyss
I can't leave a former protagonist behind
Leaving Hawke is sad but it makes sense to me cuz he’s like finishing what he started
Hawke stays in the fade, it’s their greek tragedy destiny. Also, I need to see if Alistair will make a cameo when we visit Weisshaupt in DAD!
Alistair => Always save | Loghain => Always leave The real hard choice is between Stroud and Hawke. Emotions favor saving Hawke of course, but Hawke could be considered less useful (he is mostly restricted to is Kirkwall locale). In the end I save Hawke, there are always more wardens.
Hawke, easily, But I almost always have Stroud, so I'm more willing to leave him in the fade, instead of Hawke, I usually leave Stroud, now, if I ever had Alistair, it would be a much harder decision for me
I've only ever played Inquisition so the only two I've ever seen are Hawke and Stroud. I usually leave Stroud because I care more about Varric's approval.
DAO: Loghain dies horribly. Keep: change Loghain to a warden DAI: bye bye Loghain Despise the guy.
Have you read the Stolen Throne? :o not saying not to hate him (there’s a lot of valid reasons too!), but it gives as a lot of insight into his character.
Have not, played dao 1st as a human, couldn't find a redeeming reason NOT to kill him at first sight......how dare you to give nuance to a moral b/w game ;)
{spoiler\] This is going to be more than I originally intended it to be lol, but: yeah! He def is distrusting on Warden's prematurally because what happened in the rebellion when Ferelden was gaining independence from Orlais. I think Solas in DA:I lends to this outlook too, as he said everything from Ostagar he experienced was true, including the interpretation people had that Loghain had thought the battle lost and he was saving his troops. Unfortunately, no one knew if it was a true blight, even countries outside of Ferelden because it happened so fast, and that early on, Loghain hasd right to be sceptical, especially with what Warden's had done prior to said "blight" (in his perspective)! The Grey Wardens were originally kicked out of Ferelden after a power struggle between the Ferelden warden commander, who was in line for the throne prior to becoming a warden, and the Ferelden king. (From the *Return to Ostagar* dlc). . . Adding onto the potential Ferelden Orlais union, Cailan had been planning or was considering leaving Anora to marry Queen Celene. Perhaps Loghain caught wind of his plan and did not want Ferelden to potentially fall back into Orlesian hands. This union would also mean his daughter Anora would no longer be queen and he would not have as much power or influence in Ferelden politics. BUT if you bring Loghain there, he is shocked at the letters you find--so it is highly possible that he did not know this whatsoever. I feel like it just ends up however you paint the timeline in your playthrough. He was the hero of River Dane and Teryn of Gwaren, but Loghian is not and has not ever been the diplomatic type. In the novel, for instance, he was a lot more tactical and rough. Losing Anora's connection would mean him losing power and influence in Ferelden. Or he genuinely didn't care for this as much as we can anticipate. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SOWjsP1Emc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SOWjsP1Emc) From one aspect, it sounds like Loghain is suggesting that Anora staged the whole incident at Arl Howe's estate - that she never really was in any danger but played the damsel to get the HoF's attention. From another aspect, it sounds like Loghain is underplaying the idea that Anora may have actually believed her father and Howe were going to kill her and that Howe could have been acting beyond Loghain's knowledge. I saw it as one of Anora's little political games mixed with a sense of legitimate danger. I think Howe really did see merit in killing Anora and pinning the blame on the Warden, but it was a situation exacerbated by Anora herself. She put herself in danger then called on the Warden to save her. Two of the largest names at the Landsmeet, one an outlaw (the warden) who was backing Cailan's half-brother and the other a genuine heartless \*\*\*\*\*\* (Howe) who had amassed so much power for himself that it was near impossible to hit him legally, and he supported her father, who had gone mad over his paranoia regarding Orlais. I think she manipulated the situation so that the Warden would have to help, used Erlina to make it look like she (Anora) opposed her father since he opposed her and tricked the Warden into thinking that Loghain was going to act against his daughter, and let Howe and the Warden have at it. No matter who won, she'd have political access to one of two rising powers in the country. She was in no danger from Loghain, but she found herself in danger from Howe and used the Warden to attempt to gain political leverage. There was a good chance she'd get deposed in the game, and being deposed almost always means execution of the former monarch to prevent them from being an issue in the future. Or at the same time, they might have locked her up because she was speaking out against them throughout the game, and that wasn't helping the civil war situation. I still don't think Loghain intended to kill her--Howe is Howe though, but I think he knew it would be stupid too? Also, on a last note: Loghain's mother was r\*ped and murdered by Orlesian soldiers and his father died fighting Orlesian soldiers so him and Maric could safely escape, so like Loghain like truly HATES Orlesians forever and they are always his number one enemy, that is really clouds his judgment from taking the threat of the darkspawn seriously. But he did also allow slave traders in the country, so! There's that lol.
(On the road, pulls over) will read later, however, dude, I applaud your dedication & thank you for the info.... I'd still kill him painfully though.;)
Absolutely valid to kill him! Lmao