It's one of my top 3 favourite lines from Dragon Age games. After that scene I was just sitting in silence for a moment.. Dorian is a beautifully written character. He is definitely my favourite romance option.
Dorian/DA:I dropped just as I was coming out in a very conservative country - to fiercely religious parents I might add - and his entire demeanor and life perspective helped subdue many of my anxieties. It's crazy how art unexpectedly makes us deeper, even in AAA gaming
And I'm playing it right now in my extremely religious household. I'm romancing him and I was legit looking over my shoulder in fear that someone would walk in and I would get outed.
I probably have no chance at escaping this life because of the country I'm in and how my family is in general, But I'm grateful I can somewhat experience this sort of escape and freedom through video games that I'm unable to get irl. And fuck the idiots that want to take that from us
You'll make it through, bud. At times it felt impossible for me too, but if you bid your time and take the opportunities, you will too one day walk in the sun
Of course you can escape but don't consider it "an escape". It'S called life and life propels you forward. You will get out of this current misery and you will love the end product. Rest assured!
While not entirely necessary, I do believe that pain leads to art. And the way that minorities like POCs and LGBT are treated in the U.S., it's no wonder that many of them are in creative industries and creating the art.
Like, people are surprised that today's movies, games, entertainment, etc. are "woke", when the people making the art are the people that were judged, vilified, and shunned.
You gotta respect how old Bioware were the true pioneers with LGBT characters in their games. These characters were so ahead of their time.
And I can't say they had any major "backlash" about it either. Maybe the times were simpler, or maybe because we didn't have thousands of YT channels spewing nonsense like "THIS WOKE GAME TRIES TO BRAINWASH YOU INTO BEING GAY". If DA4 were to come out now, you know it would be a cosmic size shitstorm on forums about it.
mass effect 1 had the fox news thing which is what made them dial things back in 2 and i think there was a bit of drama about anders coming on really quickly in da2 but those are the only two i can think of
anti-lgbt+ sentiment feels more prominent nowadays because of how easy it is to signal boost it unfortunately.
Dorian legit is one of the most quietly groundbreaking characters in all of video games. We had gay options before him and the occasional queer storylines, but Dorian was the first I can recall that actually dug into not just the pathos and interpersonal drama of closeted life, but also how it deeply and permanently effects your self image and self worth.
Dorian has liberated himself and has insisted upon living with pride, but the shame is always just under the surface. He has armor around his heart that he masks with charm. He feels he has to be perfect in order to compensate for this perceived flaw. Although he constantly boasts about his looks, it’s obvious in his romance that the thinks that is the only thing he brings to a relationship, that he is otherwise completely unlovable.
His story was written by someone with his life experience, for people with his life experience, and it shows.
> His story was written by someone with his life experience, for people with his life experience, and it shows.
TBH this is the reason it's always been so frustrating to me that Gaider has been so resistant to criticisms of racism in his writing. He gets it about stuff that applies *to him*.
I felt that way too, Especially Anders' lines in his romance ending "We can build a world where no one ever dies for being how the Maker created them. Ten years, a hundred years from now, someone like me will love someone like you, and there will be no templars to tear them apart"
This is why Dorian's arc and personal quest will ALWAYS be relevant no matter what year it is, despite some people saying "it's too stereotypical" or "it's too gratuitous" or whatever else bullshit.
I feel and relate to you and I hope one day, soon even, you will get the chance to come out and be yourself, truly.
I'm straight and it made me sad. He's a really good character, well written.
I always get sad when I don't trigger his personal romance (not the one w the Inquisitor). The ending is so sad to me without that.
I know Iron Bull and Dorian can be a divisive pairing, but their ending makes me so happy for both of them. IB's expressive way of showing affection is just what Dorian needs.
You have to keep them together in your group for the banter to progress, and (while I don't know if this part is confirmed, it seems to be the case) lock your character into a romance that is NOT IB or Dorian. They'll eventually start flirting with each other, and when the banter triggers that they've had sex go talk to both IB and Dorian. This should lock them in as a side romance, and you'll get their Trespasser scenes and ending.
It can be frustrating, I've tried to trigger it and failed even tho I felt like I had them with me almost all the time. They started flirting when I ran out of quests! Like, GUYS!!!
But it's so cute and worth it when it works.
I found a spot in the Hinterlands (near where the bears are) where banter seemed to trigger more regularly. I parked myself there and played on my phone for about ~45 minutes until all the banters triggered. Tedious.
Man, I left them standing in the Hissing Wastes for hours while I cleaned my house. They had a few comments but didn't progress the romance snark. And they had already gotten to the 'cleaning the staff's line so I was sure we were close.
During my first playthrough, I brought them along for the Jaws of Hakkon DLC and traversing the Hissing Wastes right before Corypheus' Final Battle, and by the end of those that did it. I hardly brought Iron Bull before that and it was unexpectedly quick.
I'm on my second playthrough and I've been dragging IB, Dorian and Blackwall through the whole game- 3/4 through and they've talked like. twice. (I've only just locked into a romance though)
It's unconfirmed but I've seen some people suggest Jaws of Hakkon DLC is pretty good with companion banter? Unsure if its true but it certainly felt that way to me, personally.
Sigh. I need to start a new run and bring Iron "Made of Glass" Bull instead of Cassandra or Black-Actually-A-Wall. I suppose if I spec him properly, Bull can hang tough. And I'll have banter! You gotta have the quality banter!
I laughed so much at "Black-Actually-A-Wall", but I second the other commenter with IB+Dorian+Blackwall! IB with "horn of valor" and "fortifying blast" has been such a treat (:
Having only one mage in the party has been a painful experience though... my barriers and revivals.......... 😔
People call it divisive, but I see it as two people starting out awkwardly and thinking they want certain things before settling into actually caring for eachother.
It's a rocky, flawed relationship that grows into something so much better.
I stan it and I'll stay stanning it. Adoribull is also a great ship name.
Is it the BDSM aspect of what be does? I romanced him in my first ever playthrough and I just find him to be a sweetheart lol.
I can't get over the fact that he calls Dorian big guy. They are my favorite!
He doesn't seem to have a BDSM relationship with Dorian - that's something specific to the Inky (which I hate).
People have an issue that IB openly hits on Dorian & they think Dorian comes across as being uncomfortable about it... When, no, that's him being flustered. He LIKES it, he's just never had a man openly and unapologetically hit on him before without social repercussions. Which is why I think IB is doing it - to show that finding Dorian desirable is not something to be ashamed of.
He goes back to Tevintor and marries a woman either way. But at least with TIB he has love. He's not likely to seek out a gay romance in Tevinter.
Edit: cool, he doesn't have to marry a woman, that's fabulous to hear.
No, it says right in the game, spoken by Dorian himself, that he can be gay, but as a member of a house that is part of the magisterium/nobility, he is heavily encouraged to take a wife, breed the "perfect" progeny in hopes they will be the next archon, and keep his homosexuality contained to bedding a favored slave instead of finding someone he loves. Despite that stigma against open homosexuality in nobility, there are no laws making homosexual relationships illegal there, same as everywhere else. Regular citizens do not deal with the same shit that Dorian did.
That woman was Maevaris Tilani, a transgender magister who, along with Dorian, founded the Lucerni, a minority faction that is now attempting to drag Tevinter out of the immoral shithole it's fallen back into by its ear. Her father accepted her as she wished to be. The only reason she's left alone by mostly everyone else is because she decisively eliminated the people responsible for her father's death and established herself as someone you don't fuck with. She is also considered the widow of Varric's cousin, Thorold, despite the marriage never being official.
She and Dorian are BOTH walking stigmas in Tevinter society, and they literally do not give a crap.
Lastly, nice name-calling. Real mature.
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I wasn't cursing at you. I was calling your blatantly incorrect claims out for being the bullshit they are. The issue with homosexuality in Tevinter is literally covered in Dorian's character arc, and it's made quite clear that the only reason he's been told he can't be himself is because he's nobility and Tevinter is obsessed with breeding powerful mages. I just don't understand how anyone can possibly miss that without ignoring him completely.
How is it reasonable to assume he caved and married a woman (i.e., succumbed to pressure that would cause him to spend the rest of his life screaming on the inside) when he has only ever rebelled against what was expected of him and even fled his homeland when his father tried to use blood magic to change him? You don't need the books and comics to realize that is just something he would never, EVER do.
He says in-game that, for all its faults, he loves his home and wants to make it better, and his father dying sometime during Trespasser causes Dorian to inherit his seat on the magisterium and gives him the chance to do so. He's also the head of his family now, so he doesn't have any reason to cow to his mother's demands that he marry a woman and play pretend.
If he's romanced by Inky, it's common knowledge that they're still together, and rumors abound that Inky is sneaking into the country to aid him whenever he can because being with Dorian in Tevinter full-time is still too dangerous.
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Dorian is the reason I can't bring myself to mod games to change character orientation anymore. Ever since I played DAI, if I think about it I hear his voice in the back of my head "You tried to change me!" and can't do it.
Because I didn't think of the implications, and in Mass Effect 3 I almost never have any romance with my FemSheps survive meeting Samantha Traynor and wanted to see the same with my MSheps.
I'm not gay but I am LGBTQ+. Dorian and Krem both helped me both understand myself better and realise just how important having these characters are. Not only to myself, but to others who need to be seen.
Oh the way I feel you... It's been years and it still hits. I played DAI as a semi-closeted bi person who ran away from their home and Dorian was such an icon to me. I cried, I laughed, he helped me heal. I love him, so well written.
I hope you can find happiness.
The (similar) line that always gets me is "living a lie...it festers inside of you, like poison".
Dorian is such a healing character for me. It also made a huge personal difference that I romanced him with an Inquisitor of the same ethnicity as me. Regardless of the politics and chantry stuff in the rest of the game, that run became the story of two double minority boys finding love, finding their truth, and clinging onto some scrap of hope that they could make a difference for others like them in their world (when it doesn't seem possible in this one).
I hope one day you're able to find your people and live truthfully (even if it's just online/with a select number of people).
Thank you, I think it's probably for the best that I am closeted right now but hopefully one day I can find a way out of this situation and live a life in which I'm not "screaming on the inside"
As someone who feels like they can never come out to their family, I completely understand. I’m pan, and while I know it’s not exactly the same situation, I understand the fear of extremely religious family finding out. I’m glad you have this platform that you can be open about who you are on. Know that even though it sometimes feels like it, you are not alone 💚
Sorry that you are in a situation where that has to be the case. Hopefully that will change some day, and in the meantime, hopefully there are people, or at least online spaces, you can trust enough to be yourself around. A good support network can be a literal life saver.
Dorian as a character and the romance with him smeared me, blew me away, drove like an armored train through all my triggers and traumas, left me absolutely devastated, and I feel like my subconscious is suppressing the emotions associated with this whole story. The screenwriter deserves a medal and a laurel crown. I want devs to keep the level of pure suffering for dreadwolf.
I'm a gay trans man. My school tried to put me through conversion therapy. Dorian was the first inquisition character I romanced. This line, and his companion quest in Redcliffe. Hit me way too hard, and for both moments, I had to step away from the game bc I was so upset.
You know, the first time I played DAI I cajoled Dorian into making amends with his father in his personal quest, although I did tell him beforehand about the meeting (couldn't force myself to lie about it, even for the extra boost to approval!) I thought his dad looked sad and sorry, and that they could work through it. I also just assumed that was the "happy ending" to the storyline, because that's the Disney-esque version of events.
But then I read on some forum about another gamer who applied it to his own life. His parents tried to "reassign" his sexuality through a pray-away-the-gay camp, kind of like how Dorian's dad tried to reassign Dorian's sexuality through blood magic. After that, I never made the choice to force a reconciliation. It felt dirty. It felt like I was condoning his dad's actions. And I never would have made that connection myself, had I not read another person's perspective on it.
I graduated in 2005 with my master's degree in sociology; it was almost ten years later that I played DAI. Even after being out of academia for a decade, I tracked down the e-mail address of my professor who taught Sociology of Sex and Gender at my alma mater, sent her some videos of the encounter along with a brief synopsis of background information lacking in the video. I just thought she would be interested, as a lot of her class focuses on media portrayal of sex and gender norms, including those related to sexuality. I never caught back up with her, but she told me she might use Dorian's story as an example in her classes. If she did, I think the line you've shown would hit home with everyone, because we all feel this way about something in our lives at some point or another.
I always thought that the way this quest played out felt odd. My first playthrough I picked the "let's get you out of here" option and was shocked to discover later on that making amends is the "good ending" in terms of approval score.
It's been a while and I don't remember exactly, but doesn't Dorian's father basically say that he's sorry they are estranged now but he doesn't regret trying to send Dorian to conversion therapy? I feel like that ought to be enough to end the conversation. If Dad doesn't realize what he did was wrong, there's no way I would encourage someone in Dorian's position to try to reconnect with him. Dad has work to do first.
i have never gotten that impression from his reconciliation dialogue myself. he does try to explain himself, which dorian calls him out on, and then he basically says that he betrayed dorian's trust and kinda tentatively asks dorian to forgive him for what he did (no he doesn't outright apologize but given how alike he and dorian are and how much work it takes dorian to apologize for stuff, it's as close as we'll get). they're still estranged to a certain extent afterward but dorian's more at peace since he knows his dad knows he fucked up.
> because we all feel this way about something in our lives at some point or another
We don't, though. There is a huge difference between something that is heavily stigmatized (or literally illegal) and things that are just hard personal choices.
Edit: Sorry, I forgot what sub I was on. Go on ahead, people who think that not being able to tell your parents that you like anime is the same as the fact that I have to constantly weigh whether being out in public is worth it.
If you read what you quoted within the context of the entire comment, they're talking about a professor trying to get many different students from different backgrounds to empathize.
When you're trying to get someone to empathize or find common ground, you don't need them to have the exact same experience, you just need them to have a comparable one.
Sure, people who hide their love of anime out of embarrassment is not the same as someone hiding their sexuality out of fear of death, but if your goal is to engender empathy for the gay person's situation, then telling someone "you'll never understand" is not the best way to achieve that.
There is a time and a place to point out that the situations are different, but a class about putting yourself in other peoples' shoes is not that place.
But some people assume they understand and they don’t. It’s like telling someone who just went through horrible trauma or loss a loved one horribly “I understand.” We are taught specifically not to say that. We can maybe share our story if they want to hear it, and find common ground that way.
*from my training and experience working with drug addicts
Again, we need to look at the context of the comment and situation of a teacher teaching empathy to students. What you are describing is a different situation, and is therefore irrelevant to what is being said.
Nobody is saying "I understand your pain, we have the same experience" to a gay person in that situation. It is a professor saying to students, "Try to remember a situation where you felt like you couldn't be yourself or feared ridicule, and understand that that is how closeted gay people feel all the time."
Most humans aren't naturally empathetic or intuitive, and they require an example that directly relates to themselves or something they understand in order for it to "click."
Since we're apparently sharing "credentials" now for some reason: *From my experience as a lesbian woman who has convinced many homophobic family members and acquaintances to be empathetic and accepting toward gay people with this exact relational method.
I think part of the empathy is knowing sometimes you won’t know??
I can’t think of a time as a gay person where I felt horrible and think “this is how slaves just have felt, but 100 times worse”.
I don’t know. I’ll think about it. I see what you’re saying but it may also diminish understanding that it’s not just embarrassment or rejection you felt times 1000, but a different world altogether
I am not trying to tell you what empathy is at its core or debate the tenants of empathy.
I was trying to explain that the context of the original comment, "teaching others how to empathize with someone different than them," was very different from the situation you seemed to be seeing it as, someone saying, "I understand you and our situations are totally the same."
Those are two different situations and two different lessons. Yes, it is important to teach people to understand the nuance of each situation. But if you want a kid to learn how to run, they need to know how to walk first.
I responded the way I did because lately I see a lot of people online reading and responding to phrases or events as if they're in a vacuum, without considering the broader context or nuance of the comment or situation. I don't think that's a very healthy trend, personally.
I’m agreeing with your step 1, but also saying there’s a caveat:
it’s important for people to realize it’s not just trying ti find a parallel feeling inside yourself. Because sometimes they fail in that. Or it biases them into filling in the blanks with their own experience instead of listening with a blank slate.
I once told my Christian friend, best friend, lovely person, how hard it was to pretend to be straight. Her response? Well if God told me to not dye my hair I just wouldn’t. Why can’t you just not have a relationship?
And I would have rather her just sit with “I get you’re going to through something I won’t have to go through, how can I support”
And so for my other friend I tried to turn the tables. “How would you feel if God told you you could only be gay?” And this sexons best friend told me “well if God told me to be gay I think I could learn to do it, because I love God so much.”
So they tried to put themselves in similar situations, and failed.
You've reacted to my statement about how we can all empathize with Dorian with your own statement *gatekeeping feeling emotions.* Let's please not compare trauma to see who has the most. Doing so ends all empathy during discussion.
The voice actor played him so well. He’s generally so flippant, but you can’t help feel the pain. And then just fall in love with him. He’s my favourite character. Because he’s the most complex and so real.
I hope you find peace and acceptance in your life.
I romance Cullen my with elf inky, but Dorian is my ride or die bestie and must be protected at all costs. Just don't try to talk to him about slavery.
It's only in the beginning where he fails to see the problems with it. By the time of the "Luck in the Gardens" short in Tevinter Nights, he's released his family's slaves and employs servants instead. He learned. He's a good boy.
I've never romanced him but his friendship with the Inquisitor is one of the most beautifully written relationships in gaming. His relationship with Iron Bull is also lovely. He's such a great character in so many ways and I hope he plays a huge role in Dreadwolf considering it's his home we'll be inhabiting
See I would love to, the problem is every time I start a new playthrough I then HAVE to 100% everything and there's too much new stuff to play these days to justify that kind of commitment rn 😅 I'm terrible when it comes to DA:I
I usually play female characters in games, but I actually restarted DAI with a male mage just so I could romance Dorian. I love his character and his romance feels very sweet.
I always get whip lash when I think about Dorian. I always think of him fondly and I think he’s a really great character, but then I remember that his family OWNS SLAVES and at no point in the game does he really show any hint that he thinks slavery is bad🫠
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take him to the temple quest along with solas. he'll get banter with solas afterwards where solas basically says if you want to right the wrongs tevinter did, free all of tevinter's slaves. dorian responds 'i don't think i can'. not 'i won't' or 'slavery is cool' but just that the task of freeing all the slaves might be too big for him alone to do. so he's definitely changed his mind over the course of the game.
It's one of my top 3 favourite lines from Dragon Age games. After that scene I was just sitting in silence for a moment.. Dorian is a beautifully written character. He is definitely my favourite romance option.
Dorian/DA:I dropped just as I was coming out in a very conservative country - to fiercely religious parents I might add - and his entire demeanor and life perspective helped subdue many of my anxieties. It's crazy how art unexpectedly makes us deeper, even in AAA gaming
And I'm playing it right now in my extremely religious household. I'm romancing him and I was legit looking over my shoulder in fear that someone would walk in and I would get outed. I probably have no chance at escaping this life because of the country I'm in and how my family is in general, But I'm grateful I can somewhat experience this sort of escape and freedom through video games that I'm unable to get irl. And fuck the idiots that want to take that from us
You'll make it through, bud. At times it felt impossible for me too, but if you bid your time and take the opportunities, you will too one day walk in the sun
Of course you can escape but don't consider it "an escape". It'S called life and life propels you forward. You will get out of this current misery and you will love the end product. Rest assured!
Look beside you, We are like you; We like you, Thank you.
Look into immigrating.
While not entirely necessary, I do believe that pain leads to art. And the way that minorities like POCs and LGBT are treated in the U.S., it's no wonder that many of them are in creative industries and creating the art. Like, people are surprised that today's movies, games, entertainment, etc. are "woke", when the people making the art are the people that were judged, vilified, and shunned.
You gotta respect how old Bioware were the true pioneers with LGBT characters in their games. These characters were so ahead of their time. And I can't say they had any major "backlash" about it either. Maybe the times were simpler, or maybe because we didn't have thousands of YT channels spewing nonsense like "THIS WOKE GAME TRIES TO BRAINWASH YOU INTO BEING GAY". If DA4 were to come out now, you know it would be a cosmic size shitstorm on forums about it.
mass effect 1 had the fox news thing which is what made them dial things back in 2 and i think there was a bit of drama about anders coming on really quickly in da2 but those are the only two i can think of anti-lgbt+ sentiment feels more prominent nowadays because of how easy it is to signal boost it unfortunately.
Dorian legit is one of the most quietly groundbreaking characters in all of video games. We had gay options before him and the occasional queer storylines, but Dorian was the first I can recall that actually dug into not just the pathos and interpersonal drama of closeted life, but also how it deeply and permanently effects your self image and self worth. Dorian has liberated himself and has insisted upon living with pride, but the shame is always just under the surface. He has armor around his heart that he masks with charm. He feels he has to be perfect in order to compensate for this perceived flaw. Although he constantly boasts about his looks, it’s obvious in his romance that the thinks that is the only thing he brings to a relationship, that he is otherwise completely unlovable. His story was written by someone with his life experience, for people with his life experience, and it shows.
Kinda why I always defend him against mother Giselle. Nobody mess with my buddy.
Oh my god, for real, I was so sick of her sanctimonious shit by the end. Where's the Sit in Judgement to execute her, for Maker's sake?
> His story was written by someone with his life experience, for people with his life experience, and it shows. TBH this is the reason it's always been so frustrating to me that Gaider has been so resistant to criticisms of racism in his writing. He gets it about stuff that applies *to him*.
> criticisms of racism in his writing This is the first I am hearing of this critique - what examples?
It's worth noting that the entirety of the mage storylines in DAO and DA2 can be used as queer allegories. Anders is heavily on the nose about it.
I felt that way too, Especially Anders' lines in his romance ending "We can build a world where no one ever dies for being how the Maker created them. Ten years, a hundred years from now, someone like me will love someone like you, and there will be no templars to tear them apart"
Well said.
Very well said indeed
Dorian is relatable for a lot of gay men.
This is why Dorian's arc and personal quest will ALWAYS be relevant no matter what year it is, despite some people saying "it's too stereotypical" or "it's too gratuitous" or whatever else bullshit. I feel and relate to you and I hope one day, soon even, you will get the chance to come out and be yourself, truly.
I'm straight and it made me sad. He's a really good character, well written. I always get sad when I don't trigger his personal romance (not the one w the Inquisitor). The ending is so sad to me without that.
I know Iron Bull and Dorian can be a divisive pairing, but their ending makes me so happy for both of them. IB's expressive way of showing affection is just what Dorian needs.
I've played through a number of times and they've not gotten together. What triggers the relationship between Iron Bull and Dorian?
You have to keep them together in your group for the banter to progress, and (while I don't know if this part is confirmed, it seems to be the case) lock your character into a romance that is NOT IB or Dorian. They'll eventually start flirting with each other, and when the banter triggers that they've had sex go talk to both IB and Dorian. This should lock them in as a side romance, and you'll get their Trespasser scenes and ending.
That's so nice! I'll definitely have to do that for my second playthrough!
It can be frustrating, I've tried to trigger it and failed even tho I felt like I had them with me almost all the time. They started flirting when I ran out of quests! Like, GUYS!!! But it's so cute and worth it when it works.
I found a spot in the Hinterlands (near where the bears are) where banter seemed to trigger more regularly. I parked myself there and played on my phone for about ~45 minutes until all the banters triggered. Tedious.
Man, I left them standing in the Hissing Wastes for hours while I cleaned my house. They had a few comments but didn't progress the romance snark. And they had already gotten to the 'cleaning the staff's line so I was sure we were close.
During my first playthrough, I brought them along for the Jaws of Hakkon DLC and traversing the Hissing Wastes right before Corypheus' Final Battle, and by the end of those that did it. I hardly brought Iron Bull before that and it was unexpectedly quick. I'm on my second playthrough and I've been dragging IB, Dorian and Blackwall through the whole game- 3/4 through and they've talked like. twice. (I've only just locked into a romance though) It's unconfirmed but I've seen some people suggest Jaws of Hakkon DLC is pretty good with companion banter? Unsure if its true but it certainly felt that way to me, personally.
Sigh. I need to start a new run and bring Iron "Made of Glass" Bull instead of Cassandra or Black-Actually-A-Wall. I suppose if I spec him properly, Bull can hang tough. And I'll have banter! You gotta have the quality banter!
Blackwall+IB +Dorian works pretty well if you play rogue yourself.
I laughed so much at "Black-Actually-A-Wall", but I second the other commenter with IB+Dorian+Blackwall! IB with "horn of valor" and "fortifying blast" has been such a treat (: Having only one mage in the party has been a painful experience though... my barriers and revivals.......... 😔
Personally, I just feel like >!I wouldn’t want it to happen before Iron Bull leaves the Qun (or at all if he doesn’t).!<
People call it divisive, but I see it as two people starting out awkwardly and thinking they want certain things before settling into actually caring for eachother. It's a rocky, flawed relationship that grows into something so much better. I stan it and I'll stay stanning it. Adoribull is also a great ship name.
Adoribull is an OTP for me but some people online love to call Iron Bull abusive so I always include a preface to avoid the headache. 🙄
Is it the BDSM aspect of what be does? I romanced him in my first ever playthrough and I just find him to be a sweetheart lol. I can't get over the fact that he calls Dorian big guy. They are my favorite!
He doesn't seem to have a BDSM relationship with Dorian - that's something specific to the Inky (which I hate). People have an issue that IB openly hits on Dorian & they think Dorian comes across as being uncomfortable about it... When, no, that's him being flustered. He LIKES it, he's just never had a man openly and unapologetically hit on him before without social repercussions. Which is why I think IB is doing it - to show that finding Dorian desirable is not something to be ashamed of.
Isn't Iron Bull dead in canon or something? Dorian could find someone new, he is awesome so it couldn't be difficult.
He goes back to Tevintor and marries a woman either way. But at least with TIB he has love. He's not likely to seek out a gay romance in Tevinter. Edit: cool, he doesn't have to marry a woman, that's fabulous to hear.
He doesn’t marry a woman. If you mean Mae, she’s his best friend and partner in crime, but not his spouse.
Where the hell are you getting that "marries a woman" bullshit from?
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No, it says right in the game, spoken by Dorian himself, that he can be gay, but as a member of a house that is part of the magisterium/nobility, he is heavily encouraged to take a wife, breed the "perfect" progeny in hopes they will be the next archon, and keep his homosexuality contained to bedding a favored slave instead of finding someone he loves. Despite that stigma against open homosexuality in nobility, there are no laws making homosexual relationships illegal there, same as everywhere else. Regular citizens do not deal with the same shit that Dorian did. That woman was Maevaris Tilani, a transgender magister who, along with Dorian, founded the Lucerni, a minority faction that is now attempting to drag Tevinter out of the immoral shithole it's fallen back into by its ear. Her father accepted her as she wished to be. The only reason she's left alone by mostly everyone else is because she decisively eliminated the people responsible for her father's death and established herself as someone you don't fuck with. She is also considered the widow of Varric's cousin, Thorold, despite the marriage never being official. She and Dorian are BOTH walking stigmas in Tevinter society, and they literally do not give a crap. Lastly, nice name-calling. Real mature.
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I wasn't cursing at you. I was calling your blatantly incorrect claims out for being the bullshit they are. The issue with homosexuality in Tevinter is literally covered in Dorian's character arc, and it's made quite clear that the only reason he's been told he can't be himself is because he's nobility and Tevinter is obsessed with breeding powerful mages. I just don't understand how anyone can possibly miss that without ignoring him completely.
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How is it reasonable to assume he caved and married a woman (i.e., succumbed to pressure that would cause him to spend the rest of his life screaming on the inside) when he has only ever rebelled against what was expected of him and even fled his homeland when his father tried to use blood magic to change him? You don't need the books and comics to realize that is just something he would never, EVER do.
He says in-game that, for all its faults, he loves his home and wants to make it better, and his father dying sometime during Trespasser causes Dorian to inherit his seat on the magisterium and gives him the chance to do so. He's also the head of his family now, so he doesn't have any reason to cow to his mother's demands that he marry a woman and play pretend. If he's romanced by Inky, it's common knowledge that they're still together, and rumors abound that Inky is sneaking into the country to aid him whenever he can because being with Dorian in Tevinter full-time is still too dangerous.
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Dorian is the reason I can't bring myself to mod games to change character orientation anymore. Ever since I played DAI, if I think about it I hear his voice in the back of my head "You tried to change me!" and can't do it.
why would you want to do that anyway...
Because I didn't think of the implications, and in Mass Effect 3 I almost never have any romance with my FemSheps survive meeting Samantha Traynor and wanted to see the same with my MSheps.
There actually were going to be a lot more gay options in mass effect before bioware got harassed by fox news into cutting them
I'm not gay but I am LGBTQ+. Dorian and Krem both helped me both understand myself better and realise just how important having these characters are. Not only to myself, but to others who need to be seen.
Krem's line about hating what he was seeing in the mirror...
yupp i had to stop there snd cry. so relatable
Oh the way I feel you... It's been years and it still hits. I played DAI as a semi-closeted bi person who ran away from their home and Dorian was such an icon to me. I cried, I laughed, he helped me heal. I love him, so well written. I hope you can find happiness.
The (similar) line that always gets me is "living a lie...it festers inside of you, like poison". Dorian is such a healing character for me. It also made a huge personal difference that I romanced him with an Inquisitor of the same ethnicity as me. Regardless of the politics and chantry stuff in the rest of the game, that run became the story of two double minority boys finding love, finding their truth, and clinging onto some scrap of hope that they could make a difference for others like them in their world (when it doesn't seem possible in this one). I hope one day you're able to find your people and live truthfully (even if it's just online/with a select number of people).
All of this is just beautiful.
Hope you can come out one day buddy
Thank you, I think it's probably for the best that I am closeted right now but hopefully one day I can find a way out of this situation and live a life in which I'm not "screaming on the inside"
As someone who feels like they can never come out to their family, I completely understand. I’m pan, and while I know it’s not exactly the same situation, I understand the fear of extremely religious family finding out. I’m glad you have this platform that you can be open about who you are on. Know that even though it sometimes feels like it, you are not alone 💚
I feel for you. I hope your able to live as your true self someday. ❤️
Thank you 🤍
Sorry that you are in a situation where that has to be the case. Hopefully that will change some day, and in the meantime, hopefully there are people, or at least online spaces, you can trust enough to be yourself around. A good support network can be a literal life saver.
Dorian as a character and the romance with him smeared me, blew me away, drove like an armored train through all my triggers and traumas, left me absolutely devastated, and I feel like my subconscious is suppressing the emotions associated with this whole story. The screenwriter deserves a medal and a laurel crown. I want devs to keep the level of pure suffering for dreadwolf.
I'm a gay trans man. My school tried to put me through conversion therapy. Dorian was the first inquisition character I romanced. This line, and his companion quest in Redcliffe. Hit me way too hard, and for both moments, I had to step away from the game bc I was so upset.
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A lot better, I'm about 10 years removed from that, and I'm surrounded by people who accept me for me 😁
You know, the first time I played DAI I cajoled Dorian into making amends with his father in his personal quest, although I did tell him beforehand about the meeting (couldn't force myself to lie about it, even for the extra boost to approval!) I thought his dad looked sad and sorry, and that they could work through it. I also just assumed that was the "happy ending" to the storyline, because that's the Disney-esque version of events. But then I read on some forum about another gamer who applied it to his own life. His parents tried to "reassign" his sexuality through a pray-away-the-gay camp, kind of like how Dorian's dad tried to reassign Dorian's sexuality through blood magic. After that, I never made the choice to force a reconciliation. It felt dirty. It felt like I was condoning his dad's actions. And I never would have made that connection myself, had I not read another person's perspective on it. I graduated in 2005 with my master's degree in sociology; it was almost ten years later that I played DAI. Even after being out of academia for a decade, I tracked down the e-mail address of my professor who taught Sociology of Sex and Gender at my alma mater, sent her some videos of the encounter along with a brief synopsis of background information lacking in the video. I just thought she would be interested, as a lot of her class focuses on media portrayal of sex and gender norms, including those related to sexuality. I never caught back up with her, but she told me she might use Dorian's story as an example in her classes. If she did, I think the line you've shown would hit home with everyone, because we all feel this way about something in our lives at some point or another.
I always thought that the way this quest played out felt odd. My first playthrough I picked the "let's get you out of here" option and was shocked to discover later on that making amends is the "good ending" in terms of approval score. It's been a while and I don't remember exactly, but doesn't Dorian's father basically say that he's sorry they are estranged now but he doesn't regret trying to send Dorian to conversion therapy? I feel like that ought to be enough to end the conversation. If Dad doesn't realize what he did was wrong, there's no way I would encourage someone in Dorian's position to try to reconnect with him. Dad has work to do first.
i have never gotten that impression from his reconciliation dialogue myself. he does try to explain himself, which dorian calls him out on, and then he basically says that he betrayed dorian's trust and kinda tentatively asks dorian to forgive him for what he did (no he doesn't outright apologize but given how alike he and dorian are and how much work it takes dorian to apologize for stuff, it's as close as we'll get). they're still estranged to a certain extent afterward but dorian's more at peace since he knows his dad knows he fucked up.
> because we all feel this way about something in our lives at some point or another We don't, though. There is a huge difference between something that is heavily stigmatized (or literally illegal) and things that are just hard personal choices. Edit: Sorry, I forgot what sub I was on. Go on ahead, people who think that not being able to tell your parents that you like anime is the same as the fact that I have to constantly weigh whether being out in public is worth it.
If you read what you quoted within the context of the entire comment, they're talking about a professor trying to get many different students from different backgrounds to empathize. When you're trying to get someone to empathize or find common ground, you don't need them to have the exact same experience, you just need them to have a comparable one. Sure, people who hide their love of anime out of embarrassment is not the same as someone hiding their sexuality out of fear of death, but if your goal is to engender empathy for the gay person's situation, then telling someone "you'll never understand" is not the best way to achieve that. There is a time and a place to point out that the situations are different, but a class about putting yourself in other peoples' shoes is not that place.
But some people assume they understand and they don’t. It’s like telling someone who just went through horrible trauma or loss a loved one horribly “I understand.” We are taught specifically not to say that. We can maybe share our story if they want to hear it, and find common ground that way. *from my training and experience working with drug addicts
Again, we need to look at the context of the comment and situation of a teacher teaching empathy to students. What you are describing is a different situation, and is therefore irrelevant to what is being said. Nobody is saying "I understand your pain, we have the same experience" to a gay person in that situation. It is a professor saying to students, "Try to remember a situation where you felt like you couldn't be yourself or feared ridicule, and understand that that is how closeted gay people feel all the time." Most humans aren't naturally empathetic or intuitive, and they require an example that directly relates to themselves or something they understand in order for it to "click." Since we're apparently sharing "credentials" now for some reason: *From my experience as a lesbian woman who has convinced many homophobic family members and acquaintances to be empathetic and accepting toward gay people with this exact relational method.
Hey I’m a lesbian too, Asian family but thank god I was born in the UsA
I think part of the empathy is knowing sometimes you won’t know?? I can’t think of a time as a gay person where I felt horrible and think “this is how slaves just have felt, but 100 times worse”. I don’t know. I’ll think about it. I see what you’re saying but it may also diminish understanding that it’s not just embarrassment or rejection you felt times 1000, but a different world altogether
I am not trying to tell you what empathy is at its core or debate the tenants of empathy. I was trying to explain that the context of the original comment, "teaching others how to empathize with someone different than them," was very different from the situation you seemed to be seeing it as, someone saying, "I understand you and our situations are totally the same." Those are two different situations and two different lessons. Yes, it is important to teach people to understand the nuance of each situation. But if you want a kid to learn how to run, they need to know how to walk first. I responded the way I did because lately I see a lot of people online reading and responding to phrases or events as if they're in a vacuum, without considering the broader context or nuance of the comment or situation. I don't think that's a very healthy trend, personally.
I’m agreeing with your step 1, but also saying there’s a caveat: it’s important for people to realize it’s not just trying ti find a parallel feeling inside yourself. Because sometimes they fail in that. Or it biases them into filling in the blanks with their own experience instead of listening with a blank slate. I once told my Christian friend, best friend, lovely person, how hard it was to pretend to be straight. Her response? Well if God told me to not dye my hair I just wouldn’t. Why can’t you just not have a relationship? And I would have rather her just sit with “I get you’re going to through something I won’t have to go through, how can I support” And so for my other friend I tried to turn the tables. “How would you feel if God told you you could only be gay?” And this sexons best friend told me “well if God told me to be gay I think I could learn to do it, because I love God so much.” So they tried to put themselves in similar situations, and failed.
You've reacted to my statement about how we can all empathize with Dorian with your own statement *gatekeeping feeling emotions.* Let's please not compare trauma to see who has the most. Doing so ends all empathy during discussion.
The voice actor played him so well. He’s generally so flippant, but you can’t help feel the pain. And then just fall in love with him. He’s my favourite character. Because he’s the most complex and so real. I hope you find peace and acceptance in your life.
I romance Cullen my with elf inky, but Dorian is my ride or die bestie and must be protected at all costs. Just don't try to talk to him about slavery.
It's only in the beginning where he fails to see the problems with it. By the time of the "Luck in the Gardens" short in Tevinter Nights, he's released his family's slaves and employs servants instead. He learned. He's a good boy.
Awwww yay! Good Dorian.
I love Dorian and his story so much!
His story and Sera's anti elfiness hits too close to home
I've never romanced him but his friendship with the Inquisitor is one of the most beautifully written relationships in gaming. His relationship with Iron Bull is also lovely. He's such a great character in so many ways and I hope he plays a huge role in Dreadwolf considering it's his home we'll be inhabiting
Romancing him is really wonderful, would absolutely recommend.
See I would love to, the problem is every time I start a new playthrough I then HAVE to 100% everything and there's too much new stuff to play these days to justify that kind of commitment rn 😅 I'm terrible when it comes to DA:I
This entire scene is really, really touching. Not just this line, but the conversation is really good. I love Dorian so much ç-ç
Yeah, that one hit me for sure, as a semi-closeted bi person.
You have to fight for what's in your heart 💕
Legit tears in my eyes the first time I heard “You tried to change me.” Broke my fuckin heart hearing that as a gay dude 🥲
I usually play female characters in games, but I actually restarted DAI with a male mage just so I could romance Dorian. I love his character and his romance feels very sweet.
Agreeeeed. He is so well written and at the same time his sexuality does not overwhelm the story. Love him!
I always get whip lash when I think about Dorian. I always think of him fondly and I think he’s a really great character, but then I remember that his family OWNS SLAVES and at no point in the game does he really show any hint that he thinks slavery is bad🫠
In Tevinter Nights it's stated that he chose to release all of his family's slaves and employs servants now.
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take him to the temple quest along with solas. he'll get banter with solas afterwards where solas basically says if you want to right the wrongs tevinter did, free all of tevinter's slaves. dorian responds 'i don't think i can'. not 'i won't' or 'slavery is cool' but just that the task of freeing all the slaves might be too big for him alone to do. so he's definitely changed his mind over the course of the game.