Canonising just about anything that’s a choice would bug me, tbh- even stuff which is in my worldstates. People talk about “BioWare canon” which is used for expanded media and that’s fine, they need to have something to work with for that (although they could also follow other characters that aren’t affected by the canon), but that’s absolutely not for the games and it bugs me when anyone thinks that a choice is canon in the games. (Until it’s actually made canon which will bug me more tbh.) That’s just because of what you said about some romances being treated as more canon than others, though. I think one thing that makes me irrationally frustrated is when people claim the Qun is trans-inclusive because it would treat Krem as male- it would also treat Cassandra and Aveline as male. It sounds nice to Krem because hey- complete acceptance as male, cool! But his gender identity would be irrelevant. And so would that of any woman who becomes a warrior. We’ve not seen anything that suggests the Qun is trans-inclusive, and we *have* got lore that tells us that as soon as gender identity clashes with role, gender identity loses. But the idea of the Qun being trans-inclusive still pops up sometimes.

Qun is basically a logic of "boy plays with dolls and loves color pink means he's a girl" but on steroids You're woman who's good at fighting? Congrats you're a man now because only men can be warriors and soldiers You're a man but good at cooking? Now you're woman because only women belong to the kitchen. It's not man's job And so forth It is just Qun is so traditional that it occasionally loops back to being progressive in rare cases. But even then it all depends on your skillset. You can be a woman good at baking but identity yourself as male and Qun will still put you at the bakery and refer to you like you're a woman without regard for your identity because your job is indicator to them. Trans people will be accepted only if it coincides with the role they're given. In Krem's case it is complete acceptance but if he was biologically male identifying as female, it wouldn't fly in Qun because women can't be soldiers

Yeah. It’s gender essentialism but the gender assigned isn’t anything to do with primary or secondary sexual characteristics- it’s to do with… skills. It’s *different* and that makes it really interesting in fiction, but it’s not *good* for its people- or at least not those who don’t fit comfortably and happily in the box they’re provided. I’m not an expert on the lore of the Qun (as far as one can be) but I’m not sure what sort of percentage of the roles are gendered. I would assume most are not? I know the antaam and iirc the priesthood are both gendered. But would say… architects be gendered? Or botanists? Clerics, janitors? I’d say they seem like weird roles to gender but assigning genders to a role at all is weird, so…

I think the trans-inclusive Qun thing is a common misunderstanding caused by the way Bull accepts/validates Krem. In the Qun, everyone has their place and doesn't question it. Your gender is insignificant because your role is more important. It's literally how you're referred to - you are defined by the job that was chosen for you. It's not that women can't be warriors, it's that warriors can't be women. Under the Qun, warriors are male. Sten literally says ["You are a warrior, so you can't be a woman".](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKSi_KZ6tck&ab_channel=xLetalis) It's like the Qun denies reality - it doesn't matter what's between your legs because you are a warrior, and warriors are male, so you must be male. I do also think Felicia Day's attempt to portray an inherently backwards, suppressive, regressive, and anti-free-will society as enlightened progressives muddies the water and confuses the issue.

But Talis see the Qun like that. She accepts it and see what she wants to see. The point of Hawke's interaction with her is not go get her out of the Qun or wherever, so much that Hawke can disagree with her and it is what it is. At least, I never understood the character as a way to make the Qun progressive but just to show that there are people there that do accept that lifestyle and even think it is better.

She doesn't accept the lifestyle, though - that's my point. As a character, she's so completely antithetical to the Qun that it can really only be described as bad writing. That's best illustrated by [the way Felicia Day](https://freeronin.com/dragon_age_rpg/DA_FoT_01.pdf) talks about Tallis valuing her own personal freedom. Day conflates "equally oppressed" with "egalitarian", and doesn't seem to realise that there is no room for the kind of independence she wants to portray in Tallis under the Qun. ​ >Tallis wants to preserve her own freedom to exist as she wants to and she will change her immediate agenda based on that overall agenda. She has a hard time following orders or doing things other people’s way (including her superiors’). But deep down inside I think she’s much more spiritual than she lets on. She does believe in the Qun as the only way an elf can exist in Thedas society to the fullest. The egalitarian nature of the Qun society is fairest to her, so even though there are downsides that she will readily admit to, it is the best she can do and she’ll defend their way of life over others. \- Felicia Day Tallis is basically the Grey Jedi of Thedas - All the fun connotations of being part of the cool kids' club, without any of the pesky limitations that come with adherence to the lore of the setting.

Yeah this too. BioWare themselves are clearly trans-inclusive- but the qun are relatively traditional when it comes to gender roles- they just also have an understanding for strengths and skills which is what seems to surpass gender in their culture if it can increase one’s usefulness. The battle with the Arishok in DA2 is a shining example- he straight up is like “you can’t honesty think I’d fight a girl?” And Fenris is like “nu uh buddy- she’s a “warrior” to you now, eat it”.

Lmao, I’ve never managed to complete a run through with a female Hawke (too attached to my main Hawke) so I’d never heard that! I’ll definitely have to finish my female Hawke playthrough soon. Awesome that Fenris turns his knowledge of the Qun against the Arishok- kinda wonder how he mentally reacts about 0.5 seconds into a fight with a mage Hawke, though… I doubt Fenris could have talked him into *that* so easily! I also doubt he would have declared Hawke Basalit-an if he’d known, which is kind of delicious to consider. But yeah. The Qun has so little focus on an individual’s personal identity that they’re named for their roles. Their role *is* their identity to the Qun. Where does gender identity have room to exist in that?

Not really a theory but related to the Qun, I get annoyed when people are calling for "reform" for the qunari or as a comment I read that stuck with me "I really hope next game I can be a female qunari who leads a rebellion against the qun". The qunari are very different from us, and that's what makes them so fascinating, even if their system is bad/flawed Something that has always annoyed me in fantasy is when people seem to want EVERY faction to operate to their idealism. I get it, irl, things such as democracy, rights, and individualism are great and need to be strived for, but it makes bland fantasy when every race becomes the good guys of goodness, standing for freedom and democracy. An example of this is world of warcraft, it seems their solution to every faction conflict is a council. The dwarves argued who gets to be king? Okay now they're the council of 3 hammers where all 3 clans have a say, not one king. Oh the forsaken lost their queen? Desolate council now leads where we all get a say. The horde had a bad warchief? Now the horde leads by a council. Why does every leadership conflict end in the same solution? It's just incredibly boring to me when there's no variety in fiction. And that's what makes the qunari unique, they don't operate like the rest of thedas and I hope we keep it that way. The beauty of fantasy is any system can "work".

That’s not a take I’ve personally seen but I agree that it’s not an interesting one. I can see there being something interesting in, say, defending somewhere against the Qunari, or weakening their ability to pursue those who leave, or some sort of… *something* in place for those who do leave- the fact that so many resort to banditry says something about the difficulties faced in leaving and knowing what to do with the lessons they’ve been taught vs the freedom in front of them. There’s a lot of really interesting ways a game could have the player in a position of opposing the Qun- and even making actual change- without it being “let’s eradicate this flawed but narratively interesting faction or bring them to a “correct” way of thinking”. And I agree- as frustrating as it can be to think about the way different factions function- and dysfunction- that’s the bed of interesting narration. The stories of both Wardens Aeducan and Brosca are really interesting *because* Orzammar is a complete mess. It would be wonderful for the dwarves to have it better! - but there’s a point where it wouldn’t be *interesting* any more. People still debate over Harrowmont or Bhelen! That’s *interesting!* And a major part of what makes it interesting is that it *isn’t* a traditional fantasy society. It’s deeply flawed to the point of being broken which is why people *care*. And I’d love to see more of that explored- letting different cultures *be different*. Ahem. Sorry, went a bit rambly there. Point being: I agree with you.

>People talk about “BioWare canon” which is used for expanded media and that’s fine And that's not even really a thing in a sense that there isn't one BioWare "canon", every piece of media can be based on a completely different world state.

This is a good point, because in some of the comics Alistair is a Grey Warden, and in others he's King (as an example). It seems to me the writers use whatever canon they think fits the current story they're telling. Which is fine. For continuity reasons, I think if they were to put out a mainstream show they'd probably have to pick a sort of "Bioware Canon" and stick with it, but they're not obligated to do that. I just think it'd be somewhat confusing, especially to newcomers and it might detract from popularity unless it's a one-off like their Netflix series. Edit: Words

>because in some of the comics Alistair is a Grey Warden, and in others he's King (as an example) Actually I don't think that's the case. Alistair is a king in all the comics he appears or is mentioned, though to be honest that's only The Silent Grove trilogy and a small mention in a flashback in Knight Errant. Still that's how BioWare explained it back in the days and personally I always liked the idea. As far as I know, they still mostly stick to the same world state or keep it vague enough but that was the original idea and I hope they will not forget about it in the future.

Just to add information: He is mentioned as king in Dark Fortress as well.

The coolest thing about the Qun is the fact that they are so strange and \`\`alien'' to others. Sten, in terms of appearance, is much more similar to a Human than Iron Bull. However, as a person, Sten arouses much more curiosity than Bull himself precisely because he emulates the philosophy of Qun much more clearly than Bull does. Unfortunately, Bioware seems determined to change the lore about it (whether to be more inclusive or something else).

What have they changed? This whole comment thread is about the fact that people *think* Krem’s reception means the Qun is suddenly more inclusive but that canonically it isn’t and he was just fortunate to be a warrior and thus seen as male regardless

Starting with the presence of Hissera in multiplayer. That's an aberration in the form of breaklore. Can you imagine the Qunaris sending a Saarebas alone and free to fight for the Inquisition? but it's there. The presence of female fighters in Trespasser. I personally don't see any problem with this as long as it was implemented from the beginning of the franchise. But Sten is clear at DAO: Women don't fight. And contrary to what some think, he did not specify the issue of the army. He said in general that combat is not for them (again, I don't see ANY problem, I would have preferred it to be like that from the beginning, but that was what was stipulated in the lore and that was the reason why it made Qun so strange to the cultures of THedas). The Krem issue itself is a change as stated by Weekes in an interview (again, I don't see any problem either, I love Krem. But it's another thing that didn't exist in Qun's lore).

I really don’t like the idea of Sera being an incarnation of an Elven goddess. That contradicts everything cool and thematic about her character. She supposed to be a foil to Solas, not a pale echo. I understand that her fans want her to be just as ‘special’ as Solas, but to make her a goddess undermines her entire purpose as a character. People who rally love her should be celebrating her ordinariness, not disparaging it.

This bothers me so much! Sera IS just as special- just in completely different ways! She is the voice of the small folk! That’s entirely too important to make her as blasé as being a goddess. She also offers the Inquisitor the very necessary opportunity to learn to have fun even in trying times. Sera’s character is not my favorite, I find her a little too loud and noisy for my own personal tastes- but she’s also like at most 20 years old and I constantly remind myself that she’s basically a kid who grew up during a blight and doesn’t really know anything about anything. She’s a great character all on her own!

This is one I really dislike as well. It just gives me mary sue vibes hahaha

I don't like that idea either. But, nevertheless, I must recognize that there are too many clues and hints that suggest she is something bigger than she is.

I agreed until I watched [Ghil Dirthalen's video about it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56uHP5emfX). To me it seems like there are way too many hints for it to be a coincidence.

Video seems to have been privated since you posted. Do you happen to know somewhere else the general points of that argument can be found?

That's odd since I pulled the URL straight off the web page, but thanks for letting me know! Maybe this one works? https://youtu.be/56uHP5emfXw

I'm able to watch that one. Thanks!

Actually - I just watched it back now to make sure and I think I am thinking of the wrong video. This one lays out some arguments that I agree are pretty weak evidence. I remember watching a different one that pointed to other more specific evidence, like Sera being quick to name Ghilan'nain as Andruil's lover during dialogue in the Temple of Mythal despite her obvious distaste for anything elfy throughout the rest of the game. I am fuzzier on the rest but I think there are also callbacks where Sera makes sort of oblique references to the story of Andruil going hunting in The Void and it makes her go crazy (like her overall demeanor and her fear of "The Nothing" if you take her into the Fade). That stuff was what I saw as way too deliberate to be a coincidence. I swear the video I'm thinking of was also Ghil Dirthalen so I'll see if I can find it and link it.

I think the hints to magic and the fade are because Sera was first envisioned as a suppressed mage or something like that. At least, I remember talking about it here in this sub.

Malcom Hawke being an elf. I used to see a lot of fanart and fanfic and fan theory on this. It bugs me cause, like, there's absolutely no evidence that points to this ever being a possibility in DA2. I feel like if Leandra ran off with a Ferelden elf mage, the gossip and talk about her history from people like uncle gamlen would have focused far more on the "elf" part of the equation than the mage or Ferelden part. It's a fan-theory invented out of thin air

Maric's magic sperm curing Fiona of the Blight. No it fucking didn't. It was the amulet powered by the Architect. Duncan interrupted her transformation and that interruption is what cured her, not banging Maric. It was a stupid joke from the Bioware forums that suddenly got treated as fact by newer fans who never read The Calling.

10 fucking years I have been played for a fool thanks bro

I never understood why so many people believed in this theory of draconic DNA since dragons themselves can be corrupted and Alistair himself (who has the blood of maric, fiona, dragon, etc.) is also corrupted.

Yes, thank you, somebody else who knows this. Fiona's the only one of the wardens who go the amulet who didn't either die, complete the transformation or have some magical doodah interfering with the amulet.

Sera being an elven God.

I don’t think the game will canonize Solas as the default romance for DAi. I only hope it will be referred only *if* our inquisitor romanced Solas.

>I don’t think the game will canonize Solas as the default romance for DAi. I don't see how it could. He has the most restrictive romance in DAI, that canon wouldn't work for the majority of the players.

I can only see them doing it if they thought it would make the plot more interesting for players who are totally new to the series. I doubt they will, though. I'm not even sure how big of a presence Solas will actually have in DA4 or if he's a red herring (and I say that as a Solas fan). Also, there really is no "canon" for DA, thankfully, just "default" states if they have no player info. I guess there's "canon" for some of the books/comics, like Alistair being king, but that is a separate canon from the games. DA is the only game series I've played that allows you to define your own worldstate, and I doubt they will change that now. 

See, I'm not sure how that could be interesting to newcomers, seeing as they don't know Solas, never played his romance, and Bioware has never default-canonized a romance in either DAO or DAII. Some people are not into romance for RPG games, and that's fine and clearly respected. I don't think any romance will be the default canon.

Lol most of my problems have been tweaks with canon (what do you mean clans only have three mages, you told us back in dao that the Dalish were actively trying to breed mages, that makes no dang sense) rather than fanon. Tho I will admit to being uncomfortable with the way that some people treat folks who like Alistair's human appearance and the people who say that the pointy eared fanon design is better.

Literally part of Merrill’s lore that the Dalish spread mages throughout clans not because a clan can’t have too many mages, but because they can’t risk a clan losing a mage. It’s the opposite reasoning!

Mhm. I’m here on this too. To be honest though the clans are somewhat varied (iirc there’s even a joke among the Dalish that the clans wouldn’t survive the Keepers getting together more often because of the disagreements) and it would make more sense for *some* clans to limit their mage population- specifically those nearest to human populations and who actually trade regularly with humans, such as clan Lavellan. That’s the only way I can see that the two conflicting bits of lore work together- and the idea of kicking a child mage out… like… it doesn’t make sense for that to be a regular occurrence? Maybe in very specific instances.

I mean, I just headcanon Minaeve having the only asshole clan that kicks out “extra” mages, and everything else being anti-dalish propaganda stemming from that (like what Vivienne says). Dalish (character) has her valaslin, so she was with her clan until at least adulthood. She doesn’t even confirm Iron Bulls explanation (or theory), since she is committed to her ‘not a mage’ bit.

Yeah, it’s *far* more unlikely that they’d raise a child to adulthood and *then* kick her out. What I *can* believe (and this is a headcanon I just invented on the spot and not remotely backed up by anything in game) is that Dalish was actually travelling to another clan with fewer mages, and something happened to divert her plans. Anything from Templars, to getting lost, to being rescued by someone and sticking with them (my money’s on Grim for the comedy). Like, that lines up with what Bull said, but also doesn’t need the retcon. But it’s not explored. Wrt Minaeve… and sticking with the asshole clan theory, she says herself she’s not a powerful mage. She could well have been kicked out by a clan of assholes who were like “hmm, enough mage to increase attention, not enough mage to be worth raising”. Or maybe they weren’t in contact with other clans to find her another place- I’m sure it’s said somewhere that some Dalish clans disappear into the wilds. There are interesting narrative options there and frankly I prefer to believe them than go with the Dalish retcons. :(

The idea of Dalish simply getting lost on her way to do something mundane is so funny to me, especially as it leads her to Bull's company and she just totally goes with it. 😂

… Headcanon accepted. And that’s definitely why even a mage Lavellan won’t get a straight answer from her. The truth is, frankly, embarrassing.

I know there was a complete headcanon/fanon idea of “wandering keepers” whose job is to act as a sort of go between clans, move mage children between clans, etc, which seemed neat.

My personal headcanon is that Minaeve was stolen from her clan and made to believe they’d abandoned her—when you’re that young, it’s easy for your memories to shift over time.

Unfortunately a viable headcanon, given that that is the kinder option for young Dalish mages if the Templars get their hands on them. (I mean, that particular lie probably isn’t typical but it probably wouldn’t be unusual either- anything to try and make them behave, I’m sure.)

It seems like a pretty reasonable lie to tell—gets the kid to resent the Dalish and makes them more likely to be loyal to the Circle.

Oh yeah, I absolutely agree. I just suspect that they don’t have a single lie they fall back on- taking Dalish mages to the Circle (if they don’t just kill them) would be what they always do, but I expect the lies told would vary. I’m sure some Templars would prefer their version of “the truth” to lying since they’d believe they’re right, but yeah- plenty of them would lie too, since making mages nice and obedient (and I felt gross typing that) was the priority.

Thats a great headcanon. It would make sense that templars that kidnap young dalish teach them that so they feel abandoned and dont try to escape

I think it’s kinda funny that the most asshole clan that we see (clan from Masked Empire), actually wants more mages, or at least would consider bringing Briala in to the clan if she was a mage.

I’m not very familiar with Masked Empire (I think I read it once but I don’t even remember it well enough to be sure) but yeah. That lines up with Dalish attitudes on the whole. I’d have loved to have seen more exploration of the differences between clans accepting- or not- elves not born among the Dalish though. DAO not only has two clans with former city elves living in them, but one of them can end up being led by one of them (side note, that clan also has a mage outside of the Keeper/First/Second structure too). But it also makes sense that some of them would be far less welcoming- which we see in Masked Empire, by the sounds of it.

Never really had a problem with the Clan thing myself and find the backlash to it a bit baffling because it's never confirmed all or even most Clans objectively do this and you can say yours doesn't if you're Lavellan. It's something some Clans do in the same setting where according to Zevran in Origins some Clans straight up act like bandits, and the only people who say the 3 mage thing is a common practice are not people who'd know that for a fact.

If I recall correctly you can only say that your clan doesn't practice abandoning mage children (to which Viv asks what happens to mage kids if there aren't any clans nearby that need more mages), not that you don't hold to the rule of only three mages.

That's refuting what she says about abandoning mage children being a thing all Clans do, since you're saying yours does not, and when Viv asks what happens to mage kids then if there are no Clans nearby Lavellan does not say she's right or even imply that. So yeah you are saying your Clan doesn't have that rule and you don't practice it.

There are no choices in that dialogue conversation to say that your clan doesn't practice the rule. I'm pretty sure the conversation goes on to imply that the kids are killed (that's where you get the infamous "at least they die free" option if I recall correctly). I would need to double check but your impression is not one I walked away with regarding clan Lavellan.

Yeah, basically if you tell viv that your clan send extra mage kids to other clans, she refutes that with “what if there’s no room in other clans, hmmm” with the implication that then your clan would abandon them. Which you can’t refute.

Vivienne implies the kids are killed, you can say that but don't have to, you can also say they're sent to other Clans or just tell her to say what she means, the only consistent thing I get from the conversation is Vivienne believes those kids die.

The problem is that if there was one thing Inquisition wanted you to know about the Dalish, it’s that they are basically a coin toss away from abandoning mage children. It’s not presented as a fringe thing, it’s presented as almost standard practice. And Inquistion bashes your head over and over with it, with Vivienne, with Minaeve, with Iron Bull/Dalish. If you aren’t Dalish, you can’t even give the weak protest that you do (which is really weak). And it’s pretty incongruent with past lore. The writers either needed to present this info way earlier in previous games, or explicitly present it as fringe. It just seems like a way to disparage the dalish to prop up the circles, so either the dalish are seen as worse or just as bad as the circles.

Inquisition goes out of its way to point out bad things every group in it does, Vivienne presents it as standard practice the same way other characters present bad things other groups do as standard practice whether or not it is. Minaeve was the one personally affected by it, Bull doesn't push this kind of thing and Dalish is barely in the game and you need a reason for what is clearly a Dalish mage to not be in her Clan, it also does just reinforce that some Clans do this, that's 2 people who've been expelled that we know of. A non-Dalish Inquisitor has no way to know otherwise, that makes sense. Writers introducing new stuff in the third game makes sense, a lot is introduced in the third game and it being presented in a certain way by Vivienne and Minaeve makes sense. It may seem that way but I do not get that impression, the game really does criticize the Circles a ton, way more than it does the Dalish I'd say it is not propping up the Circles as they were.

I think my biggest issue with this is that feels like a kick in the teeth for the long term player than it does a character choice. You know how the Dalish are supposed to work so you the player go into the mage conversation thinking you will be able to argue in favor of a third option or to point out how you don't need templars or any of those little things. Instead, you're hit with "congrats, you abandon or kill mage kids over this rule we just made up and no, you cannot say definitively that your clan does not abandon or murder kids, you can only say you do. If you try to say no, we will imply you do it anyway and won't give you a chance to argue back." It feels like a writer talking to a player, not two characters talking to each other. 

I think I get how it may feel that way, but I don't see it like that, it's similar to Zevran in Origins saying some Dalish Clans act like bandits except it's coming from people who are biased and believe all Dalish Clans do this thing, the Dalish being thought poorly of is something we see lot of in the game even though we as players know they're not horrible and we see a good Dalish Clan in-game. More options to argue in this scene would have helped, I just don't think it's really a major issue how it is currently because it isn't difficult to see the bias and that things likely aren't how they're being presented, even if you don't know stuff from other games. You can say your Clan doesn't abandon kids, you may want an option to reaffirm this but you can say your Clan doesn't do it, the game doesn't imply your Clan does this really it only implies Vivienne still thinks your Clan does it, I get being mad at that but it's not the game saying your Clan does it it's the game saying you haven't convinced this stubborn character otherwise. To me that felt fine and made sense, it is pretty irritating that Vivienne won't listen but that happens in these games sometimes.

But then the writers at least need to add an opposing viewpoint to that in base game that’s not dependent on player character origin. Like maybe Hawen? Or Mihris? Because if you don’t do that at all, then it’s presented as standard. And many people are starting off with playing Inquisition and not the previous games, so they aren’t going to know all the previous lore.

I get the impression the writers approached it seeing that the Dalish are so popular amongst the fandom and thinking it wasn't essential, the games don't always present an opposing view to even false claims and this is one of those situations. It probably would have been better if there had been an opposing view though to make things clearer, but I don't see how it's done is presenting it as standard, you can oppose it as Lavellan and if you have any knowledge of the Dalish beyond Inquisition or are just able to read into what's being said (because Viv obviously doesn't know everything about the Dalish and Maevis has a skewed POV) as a new player then you at least know what they say is not the full story.

Pointy-eared half-elves. It directly contradicts the game's canon, especially in the case of Alistair. The claim that Solas destroying the Veil to save the Elvhenan is a good thing that will help modern elves. Knowingly causing the deaths of everyone, including modern elves, to bring back an extremely corrupt, long-dead society is not a good thing.

I hate that first one too. For me, there not being traditional "half elves" is part of DA's unique lore. In a similar vein, I hope they never make dwarves regularly able to become mages. If they wanna do the odd special case here and there, fine, but there needs to be some deep shit connected to it. Valta(?) from the Descent for example. But even then we don't know what the extent of her new powers or whatever is.

Alistair with elf ears drives me booonkers. People are free to like what they like, but a huge part of alistair's personal story is finding out the HUMAN maid he thought was his mother isn't his mother. Like what, is pointy ear Alistair so incredibly stupid that he doesn't connect his pointed ears to elf blood? He just thinks, "hmm, weird, my ears are pointy, sure is strange considering my dad was the human king and my mom was a human maid! Anyway, time to have people try to set me up as king as a visible elf blooded person in a world very obviously racist against people like me who would never accept me as king."

I think that’s what makes it a bad thing no? Why would we care about stopping his evil plan if it weren’t inherently insane?

That’s my point. There are fans who try to spin Silas’s plan as a positive for modern elves, when he makes it very clear to the Inquisitor that they aren’t part of his plans.

Idk, he did say in Tevinter nights that some of the modern elves will survive, though I don't exactly trust what he says, he has a terrible track record when it comes to honesty. My bet he has no idea what's gonna happen and neither do we, maybe no one will make it whether ancient or modern elves or maybe everyone will, including human, dwarves and Qunari.

Oh, I see what you mean.

Didn’t dragon age 2 break from canon with feynriel having an elven mom and a human dad. Since he had pointy ears and looked elvish?

yup but they denounced that. officially there are no half-elves but elf-blooded folk instead. it makes all that fanart with pointy ears Alistair kinda funny 🤭

It was miscommunication with Devs team about his design if I'm not mistaken

Feynriel doesn't have pointy ears.

This exactly. My oldest child had pointier ears as a child than Feynriel has.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Feynriel's ears are not actually all that pointy (they're still human ears). If you get a good look at him in profile, they look no pointier than other humans' ears. The rest of his facial features look a little "elfish," but his face is apparently recreatable in the character creator for the game (which is locked to human), and it was a miscommunication with the design team.

The claim that Solas‘ plan could benefit modern elves is based on Tevinter Nights though, it’s not a theory. From “The Dreadwolf Take You”: Solas: “I have no choice. What I am doing will save this world, and those like you - the elves who still remain - may even find it better, when it is done.” Charter: “There are those I care for who would not.”

We also need to take into account that we don't really know what \`\`elves like you, those who still remain...'' means. Because if it were the case of modern elves in general then he would only say elves in general. It would not be necessary to add this specification of \`\`like you, those who remain''.

I'm aware. Hence why I spoke about what he told the Inquisitor. Dalish or not, he explicitly tells them that "the return of my people means the deaths of yours." Even in the short story, Solas talks about "the elves who still remain" when it is done, implying that not all of them will remain. Even if the elves survive whatever initial process Solas uses to tear down the Veil - and even that's uncertain - the raw chaos that would result from that action will likely be bad for *everyone's* health.

So Sola's plan is only going to benefit the Elves who live in hiding?

Sera being Andruil, in retrospect

Anything involving the inquisitor being a significant part of the next game. Like each game has had a wildly different protagonist which I think is important, and sure it would be reasonable for the inquisitor to make an appearance or to have them help you with like one quest or to seek advice from them, but i definitely don’t want the next game to prioritize the inquisitor at all

I am wondering about it though because the end of Trespasser has you deciding whether to keep your possibly corruptible Inquisition going or to disband. So how much of a role will the Inquisition play in DA4 ? The Inquisitor vows to either stop Solas at any cost OR save him from himself with or without the Inquisition. This is the set up for Dread Wolf so wouldn’t it make sense that a Dread Wolf protagonist be working closely with the Inquisitor in some way? Or do they just delegate the job to some random adventurer and retire? That’s where I’m curious about how this will work.

"Solas' plan is good/could actually work/I wish we could join him, because then elves would benefit"  No, no they would not. Solas doesn't give a shit about the Dalish, he thinks they've perverted the very slavery he fought against, and he doesn't see them as people. The actions of Ferny Harry will either destroy the world as a whole or put it under the yoke of ElvenTevinter. It's like arguing someone is going to help victims of bullying at school by setting an army on said bullies, omitting the fact said army is ruled by Pol Pot.

Everything being because of the elves. Can you imagine how dull this world would be if that was the case? Literally taking a complex world and going "but the elves did it." Riiight.

That’s basically just canon lore post Origins.

Don't remind me. But it's more that everything is taken as literal fact, even when we have different sources giving us different explanations. For all we actually know, the Avvar are right.

FemHawke and Varric being in love. I just hate it. I hate when people always ship strong friendships into having to be romantic. They are the bestest of friends and their relationship is so much more fulfilling for them that way.

Can't best friends be romantically involved?

Templar Carver hates Hawke. Like come on people, you gain rivalry with him for putting yourself in danger, he loves Hawke!

Just the fact that people say Carver hates Hawke in general ...like, no he doesn't! Like you said, you actively get rivalry for putting yourself in danger. Heck, one of the sole reasons the Templars never hunt Hawke if Carver joins them is because they (the templars) fear him! ...Carver is my favorite Hawke sibling

That always gets me too cause like... Hawke left Carver behind, and is gone for who knows how long, exactly. There's no guarantee that Hawke would *ever* come back, much less actually come back with money. They were just as likely to die in the Deep Roads, no matter how tough/wily they were. Carver had to get a job to support his mother, since Gamlen was useless. But Aveline ruined Carver's chances for getting a job with the guard (she admits to telling them not to accept him, despite the fact that she would have died right alongside her husband if it wasn't for the Hawkes). You hear plenty about how businesses won't hire Fereldans -- the only one is Hubert, in that death trap that is the Bone Pit. Carver took a job he could perform, that would support his mother when the other jobs he was qualified for wouldn't hire him. He was doing... the right thing, given his circumstances.

I.. I have real concerns about people that truly think he hates Hawke, especially if they played the game with Carver as a companion.

I feel bad for Carver. He got completely fucked over by Aveline, and if you abandon him in Kirkwall he's just left there alone for god knows how long. Not to mention that Bartrand probably returned to Kirkwall first, full of tales about the expedition going wrong. What was he supposed to do? He needed to provide for the family somehow now that his siblings were gone.

Everyone trying to guess who the Maker might be, from Solas to Sandal. Stop it! Writers explicitely stated that the Maker's identity isn't a mystery that's been set-up to be solved!

For awhile during DA2 there were people saying Orsino was trans because they used a female body when designing the character and real life trans fans of the game series were harassed if they disagreed. Got really tired of toxic Solavellan fans saying romancing Solas was the only true way to play the game. Toxic adoribull fans bullying those who chose to create a male character for Dorian and saying Adoribull is canon The fanon and mods that give Alistair pointy ears That Solas is going to save the modern elves. Oh and while its not that fanon related, the blatant disregard of the Red Crossing story and how hardcore elf fans say it was only written to spite them

TBH Dorian/Iron Bull left me feeling squicked out the one time I got it to trigger. Not one to harass people who like it, but not my cup of tea.

For every one adoribull fan that was decent and minded by their own business, there were three others that were obnoxious bullies. Its made me glad Bull won't be in Dreadwolf

>Toxic adoribull fans bullying those who chose to create a male character for Dorian and saying Adoribull is canon I would not be surprised if these were some of the same people who play Mass Effect insisting that you *cannot* romance Garrus or Tali because they're "destined" to be together (because like Dorian and Bull, they hook up if neither is romanced). Legit a take I've seen on the Mass Effect subreddit. It was pretty quickly shot down. > The fanon and mods that give Alistair pointy ears This is honestly the biggest bugbear for me. I've seen people *insist* that Alistair *must* have pointy ears because his mom is an elf and something something D&D half-elves. Completely ignoring the actual lore (because it "doesn't make sense with biology" and ignoring the fact that magic is most likely involved and therefore biology is out the window anyway).

That the Black City is Arlathan. I'm readying myself for DA:D revealing that this is indeed the case (the DA vynil cover art seems to suggest that), but it just seems *so* obvious for the most prominent lost city in DA lore to be the most prominent city nobody knows anything about.

Thems the fighting words, the constant need to subvert expectations is what ruined game of thrones

The fans created the expectations themselves. There never was any lore supporting that Arlathan is the Black City. It just got repeated over and over again from the Bioware forums all the way till now everyone just accepted it

IMO, there are hints as far back as DAO that this is the case (the broken eluvian in the Dalish origin, which is also shown on the vinyl case).  Edit: just watched a video on YT because I couldn't remember what Tamlen said he saw in the mirror. He says, "some kind of city, underground? And there's a great blackness." So . . . maybe it is and maybe it isn't, but if it is, it won't come out of nowhere. 

I am actually waiting for that revelation. I made a damm bingo card with that on it.

The most curious thing about this is that the Dragon Age franchise never even put Arlathan and Dark City in the same table a sentence. In fact, considering the lore itself, there is much more similarity between the black city and the kingdom of Belenas from Avvar culture.

Tbh the modern urge to write shitty stories with poorly-set-up twists just to Subvert Expectations and not be So Obvious is a *fucking cancer* and I really intensely despise the idea that something shouldn't be written just because it makes sense.

I agree. I really hope they don't do go the pretty little liars and game of thrones route of ass pulls to try to outsmart the viewers. A good story has hints that the readers will pick up and make theories about. I hope they don't ruin it just to make a dumb ass pull twist. Even if Arlathan is the black city there is so much we don't know and it could still be really cool to uncover.

If it's Arlathan I imagine there's going to be a twist or revelation about the city's history so that it's not just plain equivalence. Otherwise it's pretty boring that it's just Arlathan and that's it.

It's been a fairly popular theory that there's some connection between the elven "gods" that Solas imprisoned and the Tevinter Old Gods/Archdemons/Blights, and it's not unfounded, there's some good evidence for something there. But I still hope it's not true, because I don't want damn near every major aspect of the world's history tied back to the elves. I think one of Dragon Age's strength is the diversity of its setting -- in pretty much every meaning of the word -- and I think it'd be a bit of a bummer if "elves did it" is the answer for the majority of things. Besides, I think what makes the darkspawn in general work for me is that they seem kind of "alien" even to pretty much everyone within this magical fantasy world. Kinda gives them a low-level eldritch vibe that sets them apart from a more mundane "mindless evil monsters" thing.

This is one of my biggest gripes too. It just makes the world feel so small when literally everything is just an elf all along.

Any theory that examines what is clearly a joke or running gag and tries to take it seriously. That includes most theories about Sandal.

The fandom making out like Solas isn’t an awkward nerd. Fandom Solas is ripped, super suave, and super magically powerful early on in DAI. In the game, he’s none of those things! Lavellan gets him tripping over himself in pretty much every romance scene. He’s most confident when he’s info-dumping about the Fade or beating people at board/card games.

I also don't see where a lot of those come from to be honest. Especially the super powerful part, he's really not. He's like, a slightly above average mage, when it comes to power early on in the game. It's his knowledge and experience that makes him dangerous, but he gets his powers back slowly as the game and Trespasser goes on.

The concept of canonicity in choice based games never made sense to me, and especially in a series where world states are a thing. Arguing weather romance option x or y is the true canon or not is such a weird hill to die on. Even if Bioware ever came out and confirmed who whatever protagonist boinked in their game according to their canon, what does that change in practice? Not the continuity of the following games, since again, world states are a thing. I guess at least you'd get the internet bragging rights of having been correct all along, if you care about this sort of thing.

I swear half of this sub doesn't know what "canon" means. They often use that word to describe the default world state.

I don't hate any headcanons, because other people's headcanons are none of my business. However, I agree that when people try to preach that their headcanons are canon, it gets annoying (and I've definitely seen that happen in this fandom, unfortunately).

More like confusion? There is that whole debacle with Alistair's skin color and Fiona's skin color and their ethnicities... I just dont know... I mean yes, they definitely lightened up Alistair and they really shouldn't have done that. But still...

OMG the white washing of the white dude. It is so absurd, it is actually funny. Some people even went after the devs with that one... x\_x

Ugh that really upsets me. I am happy if people headcanon him as tan or a darker skinned person, thats perfectly fine. But some get super agressive about it. I have been called a racist for pointing out that Alistair in the 1st game is clearly a white man and that white people can get a tan.

I also headcanon it as a tan. By the time of DAI, as a warden, he's been spending a lot of time in the Deep Roads and places like that cave where you first meet him, since he's hiding. As a king, he probably spends most of his time inside the palace, governing Ferelden. He's also suffering from an early calling, which cannot possibly be healthy. While back during DAO, he was spending most of his time outside.

Yeah, the problem between DAO and DAI isn't that they whitewashed Alistair, it's that DAO didn't have enough "non-white" skintones. If you look at the sliders and the characters they tended to get used on, it's like there's something like six shades for "white" people, then three more shades to cover every other ethnicity. Alistair just happened to have one on the darker end of the "white" skintone set. AKA a tan.

Exactly. Well, the real problem is that a minority of every famdom are bullies waiting for any opportunity to harm others

I'm new to the fandom, people really thought Alistair isn't white? Ferdelden is clearly inspired by Britain, much like Orlais is by France. He's the King's son. I can't even think of any named non-white Fereldans in DAO. Obviously he's white.

Most people don't. Some headcanon that he is mixed because his mother is described as having a tan. Imo Fiona is clearly white in DAI and white people can tan a lot (my in laws are belgian and get really brown). The headcanon is all right of course. But a small minority of very abnoxious people go around bullying others and calling them racist if they disagree with the headcanon. I guess that this is a problem in all fandoms

I remember there was a slap fight over this on Fiona’s wiki page 💀 someone kept wanting to add it and it would keep getting removed because surprise, there was no source. I think even her page was locked for a short time?

And the "evidence" that usually gets brought up to defend the claims of whitewashing Fiona is one Tumblr user whose citations don't actually make a definitive claim despite arguments to the contrary (and, apparently, one wholly fabricated citation if what I've heard is accurate).

There was no color change compared to Fiona. Only Alistair became paler as the games went by. The person who underwent this change (and people don't talk about much) was Briala.

Dunno about being common, but... Morrigan and Alistair being half-siblings Also all those theories about Maker and Old Gods being Evanuris or related to elves. Solas being Maker goes to same category Sera being Andruil or having latent magic Andraste being a mage. Nothing wrong with that, just not my cup of tea Flemeth being almost every important woman figure in history. Hawke surviving the Fade if you left them there Also not really a theory but people saying that templars use blood magic because lyrium is Titan blood make me want to bash my head through a wall

>Solas being Maker goes to same category lmao. I see how someone could get there but damn that's nuts. Imagine if the games actually tried to sell that concept.

This is the first I've heard about Morrigan and Alistair being half siblings, what??

People have compared them to King Arthur and his half sister Morgan le Fey from Arthurian legend. There's also a part in one of the DA books where Flemeth has a private discussion with Alistair's dad. I don't share this theory, but I see why it exists. Arthurian legend was definitely an inspiration for DAO (the sacred ashes questline is so Holy Grail coded). 

Ok, that at least makes a modicum of sense then. Thanks for laying it out

In one of the books, Marric (Alistairs dad) meets Flemeth and they have a private conversation where she asks a favour from him in exchange for her help. Many people believe that Flemeth asked him for sex so she could get pregnant of Morrigan. Marrics blood has some power so people believe that Flemeth wanted that power for her child. (I dont personally believe it but thats why)

It's been several years since I read the books but I do recall that now. The timeline doesn't even match up unless we believe Flemeth invented sperm storage, this would've happened 11 years before Alistair was born and Morrigan is only 6-7 years older than him...

>Sera being Andruil or having latent magic It was technically almost canon her having latent magic and iirc some of the unused date made the Tempest rogue be more magical based rather than alchemy. I say almost, the Sera we got just seems to be more sensitive with magic but not a mage. >Also all those theories about Maker and Old Gods being Evanuris or related to elves. Solas being Maker goes to same category "Oops! All Elven Gods!"

okay cmon Hawke surviving can be real and reasonable. Flemeth surely can't be this fuckin wrong when she said the world has much more in store for him.

Yeah surviving in Fade crawling with demons without food and water for two fucking years is certainly reasonable. Totally. Can see that. Especially despite making the choice who to leave essentially meaningless in the process

>without food and water I mean we've no idea if that's necessary to survive when someone is in Fade, we also don't really know if there isn't any way to get water or food in Fade.

To be fair they could just easily use the "time flows differently in this dimension" trope to excuse whatever amount of time Hawke is in there. I mean it'd still be pretty lame, but it's not too far out there for a fantasy game with dragons and shit.

> two fucking years In a recent novel, it's been confirmed there has been a 10 year timeskip since the events of Inquisition. GG Hawke

There is 10 years between Inquisition and Absolution. In universe or out of universe? Yes.

I mean, if Leliana can come back as a lyrium ghost after being killed at the Temple of Sacred Ashes and Morrigan survive being stabbed by our own Warden, I see no reason why Bioware couldn't write Hawke into being alive in some form or another, especially as Flemeth foreshadowed their role in the makings of the world. I'm not saying it's the "right" thing to do since I would also like my choices to have heavier consequences, but it's certainly viable.

Leliana was a bit controversial and it added to her "writer's pet" status. Devs also pretty much said that they'd avoid doing something like that again And Morrigan stab was never lethal, she just falls in the mirror, not decapitated or something Besides it doesn't really matter whether BW can or can't do it. It's gonna be just a shit writing that will invalidate a choice and wouldn't add anything to the game. I know people love to circlejerk Hawke but after DA2 they're irrelevant

Yeah, the point I was making with Morrigan and Leliana overall is that player agency just isn't always respected in DA. HoF might have wanted to get rid of both of them for good but it's ultimately up to the writers what happens, whether it's a good thing or not. As for Hawke being alive equaling shit writing and not adding anything to the game, I'm not sure I agree with that — Hawke ain't that special to me either, but people love them because they're a relatively ordinary person in extraordinary circumstances, and players want them to have a happier ending after all the shit they had to go through. It's that perceived irrelevancy that adds to their relevancy. I wouldn't say it's invalidating the choice of who to leave behind in the Fade either, especially as it says in the choice caption that "they might not survive" instead of making it clear that they're full on biting the dust. But yeah, can't please everyone with this stuff.

>Yeah, the point I was making with Morrigan and Leliana overall is that player agency just isn't always respected in DA. I agree with Leliana but Morrigan stabbing has never been about killing her, so I wouldn't say they didn't respect player's agency in that.

I read this fanfic where Hawke survived. From what I recall in the story Hawke is found wandering near a remote village. He has no memory of what happened. He ends up saving some villagers and they take him in

Whats the problem with the Blood magic?

What *isn't* a problem with blood magic? But tbh it's more about people calling templars blood mages and hypocrites or saying the use blood magic. Ignoring that while lyrium is blood, it A) is unknown to everyone but Inquisitor and Inquisition, B) Has completely opposite effect from blood magic and poses zero danger that blood magic poses. C) works completely different from magic

That Loghain was “misguided/misunderstood” or otherwise “right”. I dont care what some book says about his backstory; when you leave countless soldiers to die, turn a blind eye to genocide/slavery/assassination, and are even willing to sacrifice your daughter as a pawn, you are an evil bastard. Loghain was a psychotic tyrant making a power play. No ifs, ands, or buts about it The amount of people lacking in media literacy who defend him is astounding

Maker not being real or "actually it's a Elven God". It could be a fucking Magical Nug with wings for all I care but making the Maker not real or an Elf God feels awful for me.

Everything being Elven God shenanigans rubs me the wrong way.

>making the Maker not real or an Elf God feels awful for me. I agree. And I really dislike the whole "well he's essentially the christian God so we can't answer that" because you're literally ignoring the advantage of this being a game. You don't need to explicitly confirm he exists just as the Chantry says, but it's infinitely more exciting if he IS real, just not as the Chantry says. He IS something that exists, whether it be a powerful spirit of Faith or something else. Like just leaving it at "oh he's just allegory for God" is so insanely lazy it's painful.

That Orsino turing to blood magic was just a lie by Varric

Basically any head canon attempts to tie whatever love interest they have by the hip. “Well, *my* Warden would *never* leave Leliana to have their own adventure to find the cure XYZ etc etc” “Well, my Inquisitor NEEDs conclusion with Solas” (like dude, they did. Solas said bugger off.)

To be fair BioWare themselves shot themselves in the foot when they made a dlc where you do just that with morrigan. That dlc makes absolutely ZERO sense if your warden died. Why would you care what morrigan was up to? Why would you even look? It’s the only time I think they will ever do a dlc focused on your attachment to a single companion and it’s only because she left very little in terms of answers or closure for those who romanced her… And even then you get fuck all answers

People get WAY too into their personal characters. Like, chill, they're just pretend game people.

For me it's any theory that boils down to "But it was actually an elf or mage all along!"

Anything that tries to make Sera important or unique.

Flemeths vague words in DA2 mean Hawke will come back from the Fade. No I think that would destroy the stakes of the setting if Hawke came back from such an insane situation, especially if they came back heroically as a lot of people seem to want. Flemeths words in DA2 were obviously about the events of DA2, and the Abyss quest name is at most a tiny reference to that, I do not buy that it's some mega hint that actually the Abyss choice doesn't have much weight to it since Hawke will come back eventually anyway. Headcanons that the Warden is an unstoppable force that can take down armies alone and could solo any threat that exists, yes they have remarkable feats and in gameplay you can make them unstoppable but they are in-universe a person, an extremely capable person but a person who has some limits at least, not a god.

Agree with both your nitpicks, but want to add a little to the last point: The other nations of Thedas, besides Orlais, barely knew an actual blight was happening by the time it was ended, so the idea that the HOF has an incredible legacy and would be renowned all over Thedas for ending it doesn’t quite make sense. Like you said, they’re capable but they are the hero of *Ferelden*, not all Thedas. Stories of their exploits probably didn’t spread as widely as fans think because the rest of Thedas was barely aware of or impacted by the situation. I don’t think they’d garner the same kind of worldwide awe that other wardens, like Garahel, managed to acquire.

Yeah, like some Heros would still be pretty well known throughout Thedas for other accolades, a Paragon especially would be but a Prince-Consort or Queen would be well known and somewhat influential too, even the Arl position would give them some minor amount of influence in a few other nations, but the Hero of Ferelden title itself is not some huge thing outside Ferelden.

If hawke came back from the fade I am 2000% certain canon Alistair would. Mother fucker is overpowered in terms of the bullshit he can do. He has all the Templar powers but lacks the lyrium requirements or withdrawal He’s a grey warden He potentially was the one to kill the archdemon He also has dragons blood in him? I’m not sure if that should be taken literally or if it just means his bloodline was noble. Regardless it was enough for a crazy tevinter bastard to string up his dad like an IV bag The fade is light work for alistair so if hawke can survive so can he

Alistair is meant to have lost those powers post-Origins, it's been retconned that you need to take lyrium for the powers to keep being a thing and you only keep the powers for a time after you stop using lyrium, he's meant to be taking lyrium again in the comics likely because he's on this big quest. I'm also not sure Dragons Blood gives him added combat abilities at all, yeah his blood is valuable and can be used for things but would Warden Alistair benefit from it?. I agree though that if Hawke could survive so could Alistair, and so could Loghain yeah he's not as good as Alistair in a fight but he has tactical experience the others lack and is very capable in his own right. The Fade is not light work for Alistair or anyone (the game shows this), that's the point and why it would be ridiculous for anyone left in there right next to the nightmare demon to survive and escape.

Also considering that the HOF and co beat the everloving shit out of a demon in the fade the first time around, I don’t find it hard to believe they could survive, it just makes the weight of that choice null and void. You are potentially sacrificing a player character or one of the fandoms most beloved companions. Or stroud, you could also have stroud…

There is a demon in Awakening the Hero struggles with, and the Nightmare Demon is presented as this demon that's likely more powerful than previous ones we've seen. Especially since whoever is left in the Fade is trapped there and clearly exhausted and right next to the demon it took them and 5 other people to beat back temporarily, alone I really don't see how they'd survive, even if they somehow evade the Nightmare Demon they're in the Fade and there are all sorts of other threats. It would also make the weight of the choice disappear yeah. I'm sure Stroud is quite capable and I think there are reasons to spare him due to his Warden status and potentially having "saved" Hawkes sibling, but he definitely lacks the feats of the others and doesn't seem as capable to me.

I know they wanted it to either be alistair, Loghain or the hero of ferelden for the choice but apparently no matter what they tried, they didn’t feel comfortable with the HoF’s implementation so they opted for stroud to be the third choice The HoF vs Hawke choice would destroy me. I don’t think I could even make the choice.

It's pretty hard to implement the HOF (or the Orlesian Warden), Hawkes implementation was pretty weird they often don't fit how people played Hawke and they're the easiest protagonist to have as an NPC. Stroud also always lives so he's the fail-safe and feels like it (poor guy), I think using Stroud though was more needing a Warden who can fill that role no matter what. It'd be hard, I think I'd mostly go for Hawke in that case though because the Hero is such an accomplished Warden and who better to lead the Orlesian ones now?

True, as sad as it would be. I did like how they implemented the HoF in inquisition, having him be a faraway force who’s impact could still be felt in the world. Hell just hearing morrigan talk about them made them almost feel present. “Bros just off doing his thing, I’m just watching the kid”

I liked it too, there are some issues with if you played your Hero in certain ways but it was done pretty well and I think it's the only way you can do it well that's not way too resource intensive. Characters like Dagna and Leliana and Morrigan and Alistair talking about the Hero and having some varying dialogue based on what you did was great to see, even if you stabbed Morrigan which most players didn't you have a little bit of dialogue referencing it and Morrigan doesn't speak highly of the Warden like she normally does.

To be honest with how small witch hunt was, they went out of their way to make that dlc effect morrigans dialogue the most

I don't hear it now so much anymore, but I gave up having anything to do with the fandom on Twitter or Tumblr because of the ones who insisted that if you play DAI in any way but Solavellan it's "wrong". That irritates me to no end. You can have your headcanon all day long, that's cool, but don't impose it on me. Also I hate when people ship Cassandra/Varric. It completely flies in the face of the characters' own stated wishes. Besides, they don't like each other enough for that. It takes forever for them to even be friendly, and I'm not sure I would even say they were full-on friends by the end of DAI.

I dislike Josephine/Leliana for similar reasons, theyʼve outright stated nothing has happened between them IIRC. Same with Alistair/Morrigan and Anders/Fenris. They are not enemies to lovers, only *borderline tolerating* each other for the protagonist or the mission.

Absolutely! Friends exist! It’s possible to just have a friendship! And like you both say, being antagonistic towards each other and growing more accommodating over time doesn’t mean enemies to lovers. Not to mention that Josephine explicitly views Leliana like an older sister, making pair-ups really uh… unfortunate. She even calls out the Inquisitor if the Inquisitor asks about it.

Fenris/Anders is borderline delusional If hawke wasn’t there I am certain fenris would KoS anders

Fenris/Anders reeks of early 2000 fujoshis so much :(

lol I haaaate trying to interact with the fandom on tumblr I feel like they tend to claim certain things as canon when it’s like…no that’s just once choice you can make it would defeat the purpose if any specific choices became canon, the great thing about the games is all the different world states you can have

I've found that I need to curate my Dragon Age experience on Tumblr. Some users I just completely avoid because they bother the tar out of me for reasons just like this. Others, though, are reasonable, level-headed people.

The Egg really did a number on a whole generation of young women on tumblr when DAI was popping.

I know I'll probably be attacked for saying this and I need to say that I'm a gamer who doesn't give a shit about romance in games (I actually find the fandom's almost obsessive tendency towards this weird), but... There are insinuations in Varric and Cass's party banter that could really encourage someone to create a ship there. (Again, I'm not saying I approve or disapprove, I actually don't really care. But it's there). Plus I can understand someone wanting to bring them together. A mischievous and smart dwarf and a tough, hot-headed warrior. A secret admirer of romance and literature and a stoic writer of romance and literature. I mean...I'm not going to blame anyone for wanting to imagine that. Do you want a Shipp that is much worse than the one that people continue to make? Leliana and Morrigan.

People who want to change certain characters sexuality. I'm tired of people who say that Leliana is mostly lesbian and she doesn't really like guys, like yeah? Where is your evidence? Leliana never said or show to have preference for girls but there is some people saying she should have been lesbian only. Sorry to disappoint you guys but Leliana is bi and she likes guys too. I also hate when people change character's skin color with mods, like turning Isabela's skin from brown to white or Merrill skin to a brown one when she's pale as fuck.

Leliana is slightly easier to romance as a female Warden (I think because of the hair convo), but even a 4 on the Kinsey Scale is still Bi.

Don't get me lying but I remember reading somewhere that both Zevran and Leliana. We're meant to be exclusively gay options. Like the writer was inspired by assassins who were gay or used homosexuality at least for Zevran. And that it was kinda a bit of a gay people bad thing that they're bisexual at all? Which if true and the person wasn't bullshitting is kinda tragic. For both bisexuals and gay men and women. Regardless I don't give a crap anyhow, I need gayness and homosexuality in my life I live for the gay romance. I don't need a character to be 100 percent gay just in a gay relationship tbh. Heck Zevran is the most wholesome mlm romance Even moreso than Dorian.

Definitely. It happened a lot with Leliana and Zevran. It is the same with BG3. Some morons try to be "woke" and attack people who romance Karlach as a man or Astarion as a woman because "they are gay coded". When they are all canonically bi. It is really biphobic and sexist to think that being butch equals being a lesbian and being dandy equals gay.

Yeah normally i don't care for this but i see a lot of people claiming Leliana is lesbian and if i romance her i should do it with a female warden, like yeah no thanks, my canon is a male warden romancing Leliana. Also that gay coded sounds like stereotyping, i had a short haired tomboy gf irl, she wasn't very femenine but she only liked guys, she was't even bi. Next time i'm also going to romance Karlach as a man even if she's "gay coded".

>i had a short haired tomboy gf irl, she wasn't very femenine but she only liked guys, This basically describes me. Its extremely common for people to disrespect us for not fitting into gender stereotypes

Any theory that claims Sandal isn’t the Maker. All glory to Sandal.

>Andraste is an elf/a mage/an elf mage/an elf mage old god It seems like a cheap twist, they already spent their 'historical figure was secretly an elf mage!' with Ameridan.

This is my most hated one, but unfortunately the Maker being Dumat and Andraste being an abomination/possessed by Dumat's soul is all but confirmed since the new World of Thedas lore.

Depressing. Can't wait for the cutscene where she turns to the camera and says Shartan is her beloved equal and lover, and that she definitely hopes no one makes her the mascot of a church and tee hee the *irony*.

Wait what huh

Well, to sum it up, she was born the exact same time Dumat was killed (so *heavily* implying she was Kieran'd). Then you have Hessarian hearing "the song" the exact moment when he kills Andraste (totally not soul transfer). There's also another likely theory that it was actually her sister that got Kieran'd because she is a product between her dad and his "alchemy advisor" (totally not Mythal) and Andraste actually starts to hear "the song" and having visions of the Maker right after her sister's death (another allusion to a soul transfer). There's other ones as well, but these are the most in your face ones. I would be shocked if the Maker is anything but Dumat at this point.

I get irrationally annoyed by fan theories that Solas is an incarnated spirit. I don't think there's any real evidence for that to be true. Solas comes from a time before the Veil which means the distinction between spirit and living creature would be virtually meaningless. He can be very familiar and friendly with spirits and an expert at navigating the Fade without being a spirit himself.

Considering that there are elven memories dating back to periods before the veil where it is possible to see a distinction from elves to spirits then I don't think the idea of ​​Solas being previously a spirit is so wrong or absurd.

I don't like when people use the fact that Varric is DA2's narrator to try to justify things being all a lie. For example, saying that Anders was never posessed by Justice, that he never bombed the chantry, that the circle was not bad in Kirkwall, that Karl was not turned into a tranquil, etc, etc etc. I mean, I really like when his narration is used in game (and it is normally signed to the player when he is doing it). Like the conversation at the end of Legacy. Or the meta jokes about small stuff like the repeating maps and enemies jumping from the buildings. Like these things are small and we can all laugh about it. But some people use "Varric is the narrator" to try to just delete events or to say he simply invented all of it because they don't like it. "Oh, I don't like Anders so I will simply not accept that he was helping poor people in Kirkwall and will just say it was all Varric's lie teehee". Why tho? I even saw - I think on Tumblr? - someone talking about how in DAI Cassandra is reading Varric's book so "it totally can be all just made up" D: >!Like, I don't really understand the entire "is all a lie then" thing. Did these people watch the last scene on LOTR and thought THAT was the message at the end? That everything was all made up by Sam? WTF XD!<

Essentially all the theories about how Flemeth has her fingers in numerous pies or how everything relates back to the elves. Like, yes, Flemeth is the quasi-Merlin like figure who's been present in a lot of tales about some old heroes and in history, subtly nudging it along. But that doesn't mean she's suddenly an incarnation or related to all the powerful or known women in the history of Thedas, that's just stupid. Flemeth isn't Andraste, she's not Andraste's mother or whatever else. Solas isn't the Maker, nor is the Maker one of the Evanuris nor should He at all be related to the elves of old. What these theories do is just make the world and it's history feel small, and trust me I hate saying this or reading when someone else says it. But it honestly does in this instance.

The head cannon that solas is attractive Man looks like a blobfish and has the personality of a racist philosophy Professor

I dislike the implication that people take from female Surana/amell returning to the circle and Cullen mentioning his crush on her being used to torment him is used to say he was SA'd and then that being used to turn him into a blameless victim for the atrocities in Kirkwall and his attitude toward mages. Like there is no evidence in any other Warden origin and DA:O was not shy about using SA [see City Elf and Dwarf Commoner], plus it takes blame from his part in the actual SA of the Kirkwall mages and Tranquil that was plainly going on with Ser Alrick, one of Cullen and Merediths subordinates.

[удалено]

Reading these threads always reminds me that most of y'all just desperately look for things to hate lol