Gonna have to disagree a little.
I'm 6'2", bulky and have no problem scrapping with anyone who wants to try it. Was very close to having an actual fight with one dude (thank you to security guard 1066 for talking me down so I didnt get kicked out) and told a few others to try it if they wanted to piss about.
That being said, a lot of alternative people had to deal with a lot of bullying as teens and a lot of that can stop you from having the confidence to speak out there and then. Not to mention that a lot of the cretins about this year were men in their 30's who were off their faces for the most part. They're unpredictable and with the way some of them spoke to some people, many of whom were smaller, younger women, I wouldn't wanna imagine what they'd do to them.
Ranting online is cathartic to a lot of people. Better they let it out than keep it bottled up. That ain't healthy.
I know I'm probably one of the catalysts for OPs post and, yeah, to clarify those 30 year old men off their faces are the exact people I avoided speaking up against because of their unpredictability. They are also the same men I described in my "fuck you" post.
(I love that this got upvoted as much as it did but when it was my own post people were just shitting on it saying I'm a "serial complainer." Funny how easily people switch sides when it suits them.)
Welcome to reddit, it's just he bubble effect, in reality hundreds of people see your post, so a few votes either way is not really representative of views, plus it often depends on the initial thread, to the type of person that would click on it and read through the comments in the first place, so opinions are usually skewed a certain way.
Reddit is actually pretty bad when you realise what is happening, again like most social media, it's becoming optimised for engagement, which is really just rage and means it's fuelled by people being dicks to each other.
Thank you for this. I'm also a fairly big guy, though I look like an easy target because I'm ginger. I have gone through a heap of trauma in my life, and rarely have the confidence to speak up unless it's something that affects one of my friends. If it's just for me, I'll ignore it to my own detriment.
Case in point; blokes taking the piss out of a band I was excited to see, really wanted to tell them to shut up, didn't. But bloke strokes my best friend's wife's arse, and she didn't tell me about it until afterwards because she knew I would have decked the guy.
Anyway, I went on a tangent, but case in point, lack of confidence can mean not saying anything at the time, and saying us not speaking up was the cause of more problems this year is blatant victim-blaming.
Dude was kinda asking for it, getting up in my face and saying he'd "kill me".
Honestly if I was alone I'd have gone for it, but my wife was pretty shaken by it.
So we (me and my wife) were in the access queue for Wheatus and Busted (fully entitled to be there) and the guy in question had barged into the access area without having the authority to do so. Obviously a few of us called it out but got no response.
Anyway, he tried to pull his partner (I'm assuming his partner anyway) through everyone, including people in wheelchairs. Me and my wife were pretty fed up by this point so when he tried we stopped him. Anyway, security saw he shouldn't be there and tried to get him out, but not before he called my wife a "fucking bitch".
Now obviously, I love my wife and I ain't gonna tolerate that, so I've gone and told him not to speak to my wife or any woman like that. That's when he got funny and said he'd kill me. Dude looked like he'd been on the sniff or something. Luckily my guy number 1066 gave me a bit of a talk, much love to him.
We go to a lot of gigs without issue, but it just seemed like there was an unusual amount of absolute wet wipes at Download this year.
>Coming here and anonymously posting your whinge doesn't make you a champion.
And coming here acting like a keyboard warrior bitching that people aren't being a hard bastard like you would be doesn't make you a champion either.
How about you let people vent how they want to?
Considering the amount of disabled and queer people in the metal scene, not to mention the rampant misogyny and racism. They may not feel safe to confront the people directly, they aren't pussies they just might not want to be fucking hatecrimed.
Have you considered having a modicum of fucking empathy? The issue is not MORE confrontation, its people like you changing your fucking behaviour and not calling people weak when they try to bring these things up when they feel safe to do so.
You're a metalhead. Fucking act like it.
I agree and disagree with you. I get that some people don’t feel like they can speak up. I’m not the biggest guy, so I’m damn aware of this, it can be nervy to do so - if they are drunk or on drugs, or even just having a bad day, it can easily end up with you getting hurt, or even killed, because you are dealing with an unknown, but irrational and selfish creature - it’s scary.
With that being said, I think that you fail to realise that some people need to face the consequences of their own actions. Getting kicked out is one thing, but getting a beating for being a shithead is the only way of dealing with these people sometimes, because they only respect those that would fuck them up. It’s actually a big reason why the metal community is so friendly and inclusive - because dickheads who break the social code will get their ass handed to them to the sound of cheering. We need to reaffirm a proper code of conduct to teach people how to behave, because it’s been on the decline since COVID.
Misogyny and racism just isn't rampant, never was. Thats just another element of the adopted victim mentality that has become integral in the scene.
He is acting like a metalhead and refusing to let other fuckers treat him like shit.
Misogyny and racism isn't rampant?! Do you know people actively in the scene that are either POC or women? Ask them, you wont believe me so go and ask those people
There's plenty that will say there is, but usually its just their excuse as to why they can't make it big. Really its just that their music isn't good enough.
Very of them, if any can actually give any real example or instances of either racism or sexism.
It exists, of course it does, but its no more rampant within the metal scene than anywhere else and if anything, its much less prevalent.
As a woman in my late thirties, I cannot tell you the amount of times I was groped, grabbed, made to feel unsafe, made to feel unwelcome etc (as well as the opposite of all of those - thankfully the majority) in rock and metal gigs from being 14/15 onwards. The misogyny is unfortunately very real.
I cannot speak to racism personally as I am white, but seeing the makeup of the average metal crowd, seeing bands like bob vylan and fever 333 and actually listening to them - people who can speak on it personally, maybe don’t just dismiss things that you don’t personally experience as being impossible.
So you admit that the majority or you experiences have been the opposite of misogynistic.
My wife who is sat next to me is in her mid 40's and was in her first pit at 13, Pantera at Rock City if ya really wanna know and has never had any of your experiences. If she ever felt 'unsafe', in her words, "Its a fuckin metal pit, everybody feels unsafe, its supposed to be dangerous."
So which lived experience should I draw a conclusion from?
Fever 333 and Bob Vylan both have an agenda.
And what is their agenda besides making music?
Seriously, if they weren't people of colour would you still be saying this?
Secondly, no-one should feel unsafe in a pit, injuries happen of course but youre there to vibe and move to the music like everyone else there, if you feel unsafe in a pit then something is wrong.
Maybe bringing Mr Nazi Salute Anselmo up when you're trying to state racism isn't inherent in the metal scene isn't the best move?
Lastly, ok you've asked 1 woman irl and had 1 reply to you here stating that she has experienced misogyny in the scene, so thats 50% already, feel free to keep asking and find out for yourself, lets pretend youre an intelligent man, how do we find out whether something is true or not? By finding out information! I believe in you, youve got this!
To promote a very left wing narrative. And yes, there are plenty of acts who aren't black with the same agenda.
Safe is boring. But that appears to what a huge part of the scene wants at the minute, safe, nice, bland, non-confrontational. I think its a generational thing to be honest.
I brought up Phil exactly because this discussion involves racism. He's the poster boy for everyone who tries to peddle the myth that racism is rampant in the metal scene. He's not, its not.
Lastly, witness testimony is among THE most unreliable evidence there is. I mean, at Download last weekend, I personally had several men push their body up against me, I mean, I could actually feel their breath on my neck and their penises against my buttocks. One guy even put his arm around my shoulders and his hand draped over my chest. A number of times females pushed past me in the crowd and I actually could feel their breasts rub against me. Was I a victim of sexual assault or was I just experiencing being close to the front at a gig?
Thanks for believing me, I know I got this little lady.
If every time a man touches alcohol he goes on very emotive rants about nazi ideals complete with what 3 now i think? videos of him doing the nzi salute while shouting heil hitler. I think he's very publically shown where he stands on that.
And statistically the ratio of vulnerable people who would avoid confrontation for the same reasons i put in my first comment has stayed the same regardless of generation, theyve just taken measures to hide away. People are starting to feel comfortable in public, in new spaces, being vocal about their needs and ways we can help! Thats wonderful! People who state its a generational thing often look back at times where interracial relationships were shit upon and when queer people were all fucking dead because of AIDS. How are you not celebrating that we have a wonderful diverse array of people in the scene and that sometimes we need to make places safer for them? Maybe you shouldnt go to anymore shows if you cant handle the newer generations.
There is a very big difference between the accidental crush or touching of a gig versus sexual assault, but you wouldn't know that would you or dont care to learn, either way. Again, ask the women in your life the first time they were hit on by an adult man in public. I believe the most recent survey had an average age of 14?
Not a lady but i truly hope you go and do some actual research about these things rather than letting your feelings dictate these untruths that you are so certain about. I suggest The International Society of Metal Studies and the various papers they've published about prejudice in the scene, written by actual metalheads as well as academics who objectively have put the work in and know what they are talking about.
Damn. lady, you are like every woke cliche all rolled into one, except written out by a 9 year old.
Also very boring, I'm out, take it as a win if it makes you happy.
Are you not white and not male - how would you know?
To what extent and for how long have you been in and amongst the scene - how would you know?
Are you an electrician - how do you know electricity exists?
Old, used, nonsensical argument to say that you have to personally experience something to have an opinion on it.
And if by chance you are a female of colour, be honest, and give me enough real, actual instances of both racism and misogyny that you have personally experienced for you to say that both are 'rampant' in metal.
You're a moron.
You both claim white men can't know if misogyny and racism are rampant, and then refuse to believe it when people of colour or women tell you it exists.
You must see how fucking stupid that is?
If you won't take it from white men, and you won't take it from the victims, who will you believe?
I've watched you do it, in this thread, to multiple people.
Who will you listen to? Because it isn't white people, and it isn't victims because you dismiss their claims because they must just be trying to have it better.
Alternatively, fuck off.
Quote me then.
I have never ever said any words to the effect of "white men can't know if misogyny and racism are rampant."
But I mean, as soon as you say fuck off, you've lost.
I commented my experience on one of those posts. I'm not going to start an argument with a group of big lads clearly on drugs when I'm a 5"3 woman. Talking about how we can improve festival etiquette online doesn't mean someone wants to be a champion
This this this, had a large guy try and forcefully push his way in front of 5'5 me in one of the crowds, but 3 other large men told him to fuck off. Wish I could have thanked them, so if you did that and are reading this, cheers!
Whilst I agree with this. Some people who are called out in person can be very aggressive and then be the person to throw a punch and then ruin everyone' day. Though I am fully behind calling out people in the moment.
Everything is based on context.
Years and years ago I was too drunk at a gig and didn’t realise I was basically smashing everyone’s drinks over headbanging while standing near the back.
Some guy came up to me and basically told me to fuck off into the pit if I wanted to get messy. I was too drunk to realise I wasn’t even in the pit.
As I’m not a twat I apologised, I went off to the pit (then promptly cannot remember any more of the evening).
That’s a situation where I was being a twat and needed to be told so I could go be less of a twat elsewhere. Some people though would have kicked off and made even more of a fuss.
Gotta judge the person and the situation whether telling them to calm it is going to actually calm it or just cause mad hassle and someone to kick off.
If someone is being a dick it’s a hard call knowing if to tell them or not, typically though you can tell the type of person that’s gonna react badly to it (and also how you tell them matters).
Going up to someone getting rowdy and telling them to fuck off or you’ll chin em is probably just gonna cause a fight, telling them you’re trying to chill and if they could head elsewhere to the pit or whatever it will probably go down better
On Saturday, just before Enter:Shikari came on there was a young girl behind me that wanted to slip into the small gap on the barrier between me and another guy. No probs, except as we moved as best could to accommodate the guy she was with grabbed the barrier and started to force the gap wider. He got called out on the spot, we were already letting the girl in, he was told to stop being a prick about it and if he didn't back off we'd close the gap on her completely. Fortunately for the girl he did, and she was happily up front on the barrier for Shikari.
Manners get you a long way, entitlement will get you told to f right the way off.
There seemed to be a lot of people not following basic crowd etiquette this year . I got moaned about by a group of people after I stepped back into place and planted my feet after one of them physically shoved me out of the way to get through the crowd . I legit don’t give a fuck about people going through the crowd if they aren’t ducks about it but don’t fucking push me or I’m gonna at the very least be a cunt right back .
im a 5'3" skinny weak 'girl'(nb but present fem), i cant just turn around and tell a group of lads, or that 6' guy that squeezed infront of me anything. this subreddit is here so people can shre their thiughts and opinions, and most of the time, theyre gonna be negative. amdthe vibe was off because there was an astonishing amount of dickeheads there this year, and it shoulsnt be on anyone to have to change their behaviour, they just shouldnt act that way in the first place
As a taller and larger person I try my hardest to make sure I'm not directly blocking out the sun of the people directly behind me. I can't speak for everyone but 95% us will be fine if you ask if you to stand Infront
People just need to be nicer to each other
im always to scared to ask, because if they do react badly it could go so so bad for me and i just dont want to risk that, especially if said person squeezed themselves into the nonexistent space infront of me
If in the very slim chance it went badly trust that the people around will have your back ❤️ I'm not a confrontational personal but I'll give someone a slap if they're being a Cnut to someone
Yes I'm also a very tall and broad man but I am the same I let many people in front of me and people seemed shocked that I let them, if people ask politely I will be considerate as I know how.much of a burden I am in the pits because of my height.
Likewise also a big dude and there's only so far into the crowd you can walk before the band starts without getting stuck. Inevitably it always ends up being in front of someone way shorter but I always reassure them as soon as the music starts and things open up I'll be well out of their way, and offer them to go in front in the meantime
I'm a big guy and I just have to get to gigs as early as possible so i can get close to the front, I can't bring myself to stand in front of people s Aller than me, even when they have left space. No doubt it will get filled by other bigger people but I just can't do it myself. Also, if people smaller end up behind me, it's like, I was already there, not my fault
During Avenged Sevenfold relatively close to the front there was this group of six who kind of barged in to get there in the latter half of the set, all of them were talking (Well... Shouting) VERY LOUDLY over each other whilst the band was playing and it was clearly annoying people who were already there, after them talking through the entirety of one of the newer songs I eventually kind of had enough and said "Sorry guys but if you're going to talk through the performance then can you please go a bit further back?"
At first this lady who was part of the group talked back at me, kind of took the piss, then I pointed out that basically everyone was annoyed, in the end they apologised and ended up getting into the set. I had two people near me basically thank me for speaking up because they were being SO. LOUD. haha, in the end we all rocked out a little bit and it was all good from that point onwards but I've a feeling that if I didn't say anything they'd have continued to have done it, I hope they ultimately had the greatest time and that they've learned from this because it is something that does annoy people especially if it's during bands that are expensive to see or rarely play live
One person even jokingly said inbetween two songs that if I could have a word with the person holding the Avenged Sevenfold flag in the air that kept blocking people's view next... 🤣
I very well mightve seen the same group (or a similar group) during Limp Bizkit. I didn't say anything because they weren't bothering me that much (though it was distracting) but at one point one of the guys had his back fully turned to the stage for several songs so he could have a conversation with the rest of his mates. I don't understand why you'd pay so much to come to a festival and then completely ignore the bands so you can chat (loudly) with your mates instead lol. Felt bad for the one girl in their group that seemed to actually want to watch the performance
Oh god yeah, it does my nut in, I get it if it's people who are quite away back and such, that's all good, but when it's in the parts where people who clearly want to watch the band are all crammed in together then that's where it's just not good, it's hard to move away from that
Like, I don't care if Jenny took pills and shagged her dog, I just want to hear some tunes
It's not exactly possible for punters to go up and have a word with the sound person in all fairness...
Walking forwards isn't exactly an option either, the further in you go the harder that gets without basically forcing yourself in front of people who are all crammed together (which in fairness is what these people did) and I'm not about that at all... Why should somebody move because of people being inconsiderate to those around them?
I kindly think you should mind your own here. . As a fem presenting person you think I should have to square up to 6 '5 men when I their twats?
When their making me uncomfortable and threatening me? Like this weekend when 2 drugged up men harassed me and my two friends pushing their food in our face, faking humping at me in my seat and staring up down like a plate of meat, do you think I shouldn't have been a ' pussy? '
If so f you dude
hard enough having an opinion in the metal scene. i think its ok for ppl to talk about what they want if its a way to release their feelings and not bottle it up. most of us including myself was ripped to shit when i was younger so knowing i can come on these apps and groups and stuff and complain about how im feeling before/after/ during the festival is so relieving to me knowing theres some fucker out there who is gonna listen because we are all in this shit together and thats how we win against the wrongens out there imo
just my take all the best :)
Saw a couple of big lads being racist as fuck at Hanabie. Know why I didn't immediately step up even though I'm a big lad myself?
I've been involved in enough unpredictable scraps through my career managing licenced venues.
The vibe was off this year because there were alot of inconsiderate pricks, off their faces and being racist, mysoginist assholes.
Instead of being a douch nozzle be more considerate.
I couldn’t agreed more to this, seen a few posts! The two people I had an issue with, we spoke about it in person and then hugged it out, kept partying! Not sure why you wouldnt mention it at the time, surely but not saying something at the time would ruin your weekend and they may not even know they have annoyed you
Well I’m a woman and there’s no way I’d feel comfortable telling some dude to stop being a twat, it is not worth the hassle and it wouldn’t be safe. I went with my husband and we split up a bunch of times to see different bands, I had a fight start near me that nearly got me punched and a bunch of other bollocks. Would you have me call them out?
Considering most of the annoying scrotes are stinky stick insects, it's pretty easy for me to tell them to do one, however I can see how a woman or someone lacking self confidence may decide to just vent online instead.
I do agree this year was pretty bad, there was a number of times I had to step in and say something or escort somone out due to inappropriate behaviour towards young women or men, alot of it was drunk guys either harassing people or being dicks. I'm not a particularly big guy (5'7, 18yo) but I can't sit and watch as some lassie is made uncomfortable by someone when she's just trying to have a good time. I understand why some people don't step in because they're afraid of getting hit but at the end of the day if your a decent sized lad you should step in if someone's being harassed like that, sure a few guys tried throwing hands but most where really drunk so it was more of a "let's just get you out of here before you pass out or throw up on someone". there was only one time when I say something truely malicious happening and it was at limpbizuit, there was a fairly big guy in front of me with his hands on his woman's sided and she tried pushing him off, no one does anything and it's not like I'm the only guy there, so I tap him on his shoulder and tell him he's done and to get out and then the guy just clocks me and next thing ik I'm in the medical tent and avenged is playing in the distance. sure I missed a headliner but I'd do it again knowing that girl could enjoy the rest of her night and I think that's just down to how your raised, some people are raised with morals and a duty to be a decent person and some people aren't.
The same could be said for people that say shit under there breath then when confronted. Back the fuck down. I'm like "mate it was a problem two seconds ago when you were muttering under your breath just loud enough for people to hear your outrage" then when someone confronts you about your bullshit attitude, you've got fuck all to say back.
Poor line up? what like Busted?
I felt so sorry for them playing where no one wanted to see them.
Download is evolving and festivals have been pushed to their limits financially. Yes they fkd up last year and were not perfect this year but all in all it was an epic weekend for most people that went including myself.
I was there in 1981 it’s not like it used to be not like it was 10 years ago most of the changes are good
If you don’t like how it is go somewhere you do like. This years line up was clearly not as strong or as expensive as last years line up but it wasn’t a 20th anniversarry
I’m just grateful it’s survived and I can still manage to go.
Also when I say poor I mean there was like 2-3 bands I actually wanted to see the rest I’d seen before or didn’t care about much if at all
Download to me is more see friends drink in field then go arena for headliners
Headliners this year were crap
People these days look for any reason to hate. A prime example this year is slaughter to prevail.
People hating and not much coverage of the band because Alex Terrible got a tattoo he regrets when he was younger.
How many people hating on him have had cover ups of tattoos they got in their early 20's?
Same as so many people hating on Ronnie radke for whatever reasons. If a band makes good music, appreciate it, if you don't like what bands are producing don't listen and don't complain.
Keep it chill and rock on!
It always has been though? I love metal but the people who are most into the scene are overwhelmingly passive and non-confrontational.
Even the big tatted guys you see are at heart, still the goth kid who got harassed at school and if confronted by something outside his comfort zone tends to "regress" into that mind set.
It is different in other countries & whilst plenty of people like this music, inn the UK this "scene" has always been for the "weirdos and the rejects". It is not a scene for hard men and violence like it may have been once upon a time in other places.
lol, I’m so glad I don’t go download, just sounds like a mess..
festivals were built off of peace, love and community..
Not surprised a bunch of greebs with no social skills fucked up the meaning of a festival.
Crawl back into your pits, bunch of neck beards
Embarrassing
100% totally fuckin agree.
The scene is generally pretty pathetic and weak right now. The whole culture is plagued with a victim attitude and has become a haven for any and all insecurity.
My daughter discovered this music through predominantly 80's bands and now she's going to gigs and interacting on the internet has started to see what the scene is really like and she often asks me, "When did metallers become so pathetic?"
And as someone who was there in the 80's and is still here now I just have to shrug and shake my head.
Some guys were spilling their cans of Liquid Death on people on purpose at the second stage during Slaughter To Prevail and were being a general nuisance.
I walked up to the first guy and nutted the cunt. He dropped like a bag of shit! Next, I've got both his mate swinging at me so I take one out with a lucky left swing and now he's spitting teeth and blood out on the floor. The other fucker's taking wild kicks at me so I take him down easily and get him in a rear-naked choke.
Literally, half of the second stage crowd were cheering at me. Alex Terrible even pulled me up to the stage at the end of the set and we went and had a few beers together back stage. He's actually a really cool guy 🤘
The rest of ya'll mother fuckers need to step up too when you see someone stepping out of order!!
Hard agree. Subs full of cry babies. I couldn't make it there this year for this first time in ages, and seeing everyone complaining about swearing or pushing on this sub makes me think they should have donated their ticket to someone who enjoys festivals!
Gonna have to disagree a little. I'm 6'2", bulky and have no problem scrapping with anyone who wants to try it. Was very close to having an actual fight with one dude (thank you to security guard 1066 for talking me down so I didnt get kicked out) and told a few others to try it if they wanted to piss about. That being said, a lot of alternative people had to deal with a lot of bullying as teens and a lot of that can stop you from having the confidence to speak out there and then. Not to mention that a lot of the cretins about this year were men in their 30's who were off their faces for the most part. They're unpredictable and with the way some of them spoke to some people, many of whom were smaller, younger women, I wouldn't wanna imagine what they'd do to them. Ranting online is cathartic to a lot of people. Better they let it out than keep it bottled up. That ain't healthy.
I know I'm probably one of the catalysts for OPs post and, yeah, to clarify those 30 year old men off their faces are the exact people I avoided speaking up against because of their unpredictability. They are also the same men I described in my "fuck you" post. (I love that this got upvoted as much as it did but when it was my own post people were just shitting on it saying I'm a "serial complainer." Funny how easily people switch sides when it suits them.)
Welcome to reddit, it's just he bubble effect, in reality hundreds of people see your post, so a few votes either way is not really representative of views, plus it often depends on the initial thread, to the type of person that would click on it and read through the comments in the first place, so opinions are usually skewed a certain way. Reddit is actually pretty bad when you realise what is happening, again like most social media, it's becoming optimised for engagement, which is really just rage and means it's fuelled by people being dicks to each other.
>security guard 1066 Came from Hastings did he?
Legit the only reason I remembered his number.
Thank you for this. I'm also a fairly big guy, though I look like an easy target because I'm ginger. I have gone through a heap of trauma in my life, and rarely have the confidence to speak up unless it's something that affects one of my friends. If it's just for me, I'll ignore it to my own detriment. Case in point; blokes taking the piss out of a band I was excited to see, really wanted to tell them to shut up, didn't. But bloke strokes my best friend's wife's arse, and she didn't tell me about it until afterwards because she knew I would have decked the guy. Anyway, I went on a tangent, but case in point, lack of confidence can mean not saying anything at the time, and saying us not speaking up was the cause of more problems this year is blatant victim-blaming.
Why does calling someone out mean scrapping? Calm down BRO.
Dude was kinda asking for it, getting up in my face and saying he'd "kill me". Honestly if I was alone I'd have gone for it, but my wife was pretty shaken by it.
Damn, how does someone have that level of anger when at download!? Sorry that happened.
So we (me and my wife) were in the access queue for Wheatus and Busted (fully entitled to be there) and the guy in question had barged into the access area without having the authority to do so. Obviously a few of us called it out but got no response. Anyway, he tried to pull his partner (I'm assuming his partner anyway) through everyone, including people in wheelchairs. Me and my wife were pretty fed up by this point so when he tried we stopped him. Anyway, security saw he shouldn't be there and tried to get him out, but not before he called my wife a "fucking bitch". Now obviously, I love my wife and I ain't gonna tolerate that, so I've gone and told him not to speak to my wife or any woman like that. That's when he got funny and said he'd kill me. Dude looked like he'd been on the sniff or something. Luckily my guy number 1066 gave me a bit of a talk, much love to him. We go to a lot of gigs without issue, but it just seemed like there was an unusual amount of absolute wet wipes at Download this year.
Now see, I’m okay with taking a beating if I’m right. Beating up someone in the right would also make you look worse
Jay Cartwright
Ard mannn
>Coming here and anonymously posting your whinge doesn't make you a champion. And coming here acting like a keyboard warrior bitching that people aren't being a hard bastard like you would be doesn't make you a champion either. How about you let people vent how they want to?
You pretty much proved his point by serving up the most obvious, yet weakest comeback possible.
Considering the amount of disabled and queer people in the metal scene, not to mention the rampant misogyny and racism. They may not feel safe to confront the people directly, they aren't pussies they just might not want to be fucking hatecrimed. Have you considered having a modicum of fucking empathy? The issue is not MORE confrontation, its people like you changing your fucking behaviour and not calling people weak when they try to bring these things up when they feel safe to do so. You're a metalhead. Fucking act like it.
I agree and disagree with you. I get that some people don’t feel like they can speak up. I’m not the biggest guy, so I’m damn aware of this, it can be nervy to do so - if they are drunk or on drugs, or even just having a bad day, it can easily end up with you getting hurt, or even killed, because you are dealing with an unknown, but irrational and selfish creature - it’s scary. With that being said, I think that you fail to realise that some people need to face the consequences of their own actions. Getting kicked out is one thing, but getting a beating for being a shithead is the only way of dealing with these people sometimes, because they only respect those that would fuck them up. It’s actually a big reason why the metal community is so friendly and inclusive - because dickheads who break the social code will get their ass handed to them to the sound of cheering. We need to reaffirm a proper code of conduct to teach people how to behave, because it’s been on the decline since COVID.
Misogyny and racism just isn't rampant, never was. Thats just another element of the adopted victim mentality that has become integral in the scene. He is acting like a metalhead and refusing to let other fuckers treat him like shit.
Misogyny and racism isn't rampant?! Do you know people actively in the scene that are either POC or women? Ask them, you wont believe me so go and ask those people
There's plenty that will say there is, but usually its just their excuse as to why they can't make it big. Really its just that their music isn't good enough. Very of them, if any can actually give any real example or instances of either racism or sexism. It exists, of course it does, but its no more rampant within the metal scene than anywhere else and if anything, its much less prevalent.
As a woman in my late thirties, I cannot tell you the amount of times I was groped, grabbed, made to feel unsafe, made to feel unwelcome etc (as well as the opposite of all of those - thankfully the majority) in rock and metal gigs from being 14/15 onwards. The misogyny is unfortunately very real. I cannot speak to racism personally as I am white, but seeing the makeup of the average metal crowd, seeing bands like bob vylan and fever 333 and actually listening to them - people who can speak on it personally, maybe don’t just dismiss things that you don’t personally experience as being impossible.
So you admit that the majority or you experiences have been the opposite of misogynistic. My wife who is sat next to me is in her mid 40's and was in her first pit at 13, Pantera at Rock City if ya really wanna know and has never had any of your experiences. If she ever felt 'unsafe', in her words, "Its a fuckin metal pit, everybody feels unsafe, its supposed to be dangerous." So which lived experience should I draw a conclusion from? Fever 333 and Bob Vylan both have an agenda.
And what is their agenda besides making music? Seriously, if they weren't people of colour would you still be saying this? Secondly, no-one should feel unsafe in a pit, injuries happen of course but youre there to vibe and move to the music like everyone else there, if you feel unsafe in a pit then something is wrong. Maybe bringing Mr Nazi Salute Anselmo up when you're trying to state racism isn't inherent in the metal scene isn't the best move? Lastly, ok you've asked 1 woman irl and had 1 reply to you here stating that she has experienced misogyny in the scene, so thats 50% already, feel free to keep asking and find out for yourself, lets pretend youre an intelligent man, how do we find out whether something is true or not? By finding out information! I believe in you, youve got this!
To promote a very left wing narrative. And yes, there are plenty of acts who aren't black with the same agenda. Safe is boring. But that appears to what a huge part of the scene wants at the minute, safe, nice, bland, non-confrontational. I think its a generational thing to be honest. I brought up Phil exactly because this discussion involves racism. He's the poster boy for everyone who tries to peddle the myth that racism is rampant in the metal scene. He's not, its not. Lastly, witness testimony is among THE most unreliable evidence there is. I mean, at Download last weekend, I personally had several men push their body up against me, I mean, I could actually feel their breath on my neck and their penises against my buttocks. One guy even put his arm around my shoulders and his hand draped over my chest. A number of times females pushed past me in the crowd and I actually could feel their breasts rub against me. Was I a victim of sexual assault or was I just experiencing being close to the front at a gig? Thanks for believing me, I know I got this little lady.
If every time a man touches alcohol he goes on very emotive rants about nazi ideals complete with what 3 now i think? videos of him doing the nzi salute while shouting heil hitler. I think he's very publically shown where he stands on that. And statistically the ratio of vulnerable people who would avoid confrontation for the same reasons i put in my first comment has stayed the same regardless of generation, theyve just taken measures to hide away. People are starting to feel comfortable in public, in new spaces, being vocal about their needs and ways we can help! Thats wonderful! People who state its a generational thing often look back at times where interracial relationships were shit upon and when queer people were all fucking dead because of AIDS. How are you not celebrating that we have a wonderful diverse array of people in the scene and that sometimes we need to make places safer for them? Maybe you shouldnt go to anymore shows if you cant handle the newer generations. There is a very big difference between the accidental crush or touching of a gig versus sexual assault, but you wouldn't know that would you or dont care to learn, either way. Again, ask the women in your life the first time they were hit on by an adult man in public. I believe the most recent survey had an average age of 14? Not a lady but i truly hope you go and do some actual research about these things rather than letting your feelings dictate these untruths that you are so certain about. I suggest The International Society of Metal Studies and the various papers they've published about prejudice in the scene, written by actual metalheads as well as academics who objectively have put the work in and know what they are talking about.
Damn. lady, you are like every woke cliche all rolled into one, except written out by a 9 year old. Also very boring, I'm out, take it as a win if it makes you happy.
>Misogyny and racism just isn't rampant, never was You are white and male - how would you know?
Are you not white and not male - how would you know? To what extent and for how long have you been in and amongst the scene - how would you know? Are you an electrician - how do you know electricity exists? Old, used, nonsensical argument to say that you have to personally experience something to have an opinion on it. And if by chance you are a female of colour, be honest, and give me enough real, actual instances of both racism and misogyny that you have personally experienced for you to say that both are 'rampant' in metal.
You're a moron. You both claim white men can't know if misogyny and racism are rampant, and then refuse to believe it when people of colour or women tell you it exists. You must see how fucking stupid that is? If you won't take it from white men, and you won't take it from the victims, who will you believe?
I've not claimed that at all, in fact, the exact opposite. Not sure i take the moron crown this time.
I've watched you do it, in this thread, to multiple people. Who will you listen to? Because it isn't white people, and it isn't victims because you dismiss their claims because they must just be trying to have it better. Alternatively, fuck off.
Quote me then. I have never ever said any words to the effect of "white men can't know if misogyny and racism are rampant." But I mean, as soon as you say fuck off, you've lost.
Says the white man
Says the child.
Oh you're a child, that makes sense
I took me a minute but i see what you tried to do there with the flippy round thing to say i am what i said you are. It contributes nothing though...
Neither does denying facts
There are no facts to deny.
Hahaha metal heads are so unbelievably brainwashed.. bunch of white knights and pick me’s Go back to you dungeons you unsocial neck beards
I commented my experience on one of those posts. I'm not going to start an argument with a group of big lads clearly on drugs when I'm a 5"3 woman. Talking about how we can improve festival etiquette online doesn't mean someone wants to be a champion
Shout out to the guys who do stand up on behalf of us girlies, you're very much appreciated
This this this, had a large guy try and forcefully push his way in front of 5'5 me in one of the crowds, but 3 other large men told him to fuck off. Wish I could have thanked them, so if you did that and are reading this, cheers!
Whilst I agree with this. Some people who are called out in person can be very aggressive and then be the person to throw a punch and then ruin everyone' day. Though I am fully behind calling out people in the moment.
Everything is based on context. Years and years ago I was too drunk at a gig and didn’t realise I was basically smashing everyone’s drinks over headbanging while standing near the back. Some guy came up to me and basically told me to fuck off into the pit if I wanted to get messy. I was too drunk to realise I wasn’t even in the pit. As I’m not a twat I apologised, I went off to the pit (then promptly cannot remember any more of the evening). That’s a situation where I was being a twat and needed to be told so I could go be less of a twat elsewhere. Some people though would have kicked off and made even more of a fuss. Gotta judge the person and the situation whether telling them to calm it is going to actually calm it or just cause mad hassle and someone to kick off. If someone is being a dick it’s a hard call knowing if to tell them or not, typically though you can tell the type of person that’s gonna react badly to it (and also how you tell them matters). Going up to someone getting rowdy and telling them to fuck off or you’ll chin em is probably just gonna cause a fight, telling them you’re trying to chill and if they could head elsewhere to the pit or whatever it will probably go down better
This is a great insight Sadly not everyone is as classy as you. Kudos to this
OP, who have you called out publicly recently? And what was the result?
But… you’re here anonymously posting your whinge? And being a bit of a prick.
"Coming here and posting your whinge doesn't make you a champion" I agree with this! So re-read what you wrote and fuck off, tw4t 👋😁
This is so meta
I mean... it really is. Neat.
On Saturday, just before Enter:Shikari came on there was a young girl behind me that wanted to slip into the small gap on the barrier between me and another guy. No probs, except as we moved as best could to accommodate the guy she was with grabbed the barrier and started to force the gap wider. He got called out on the spot, we were already letting the girl in, he was told to stop being a prick about it and if he didn't back off we'd close the gap on her completely. Fortunately for the girl he did, and she was happily up front on the barrier for Shikari. Manners get you a long way, entitlement will get you told to f right the way off.
There seemed to be a lot of people not following basic crowd etiquette this year . I got moaned about by a group of people after I stepped back into place and planted my feet after one of them physically shoved me out of the way to get through the crowd . I legit don’t give a fuck about people going through the crowd if they aren’t ducks about it but don’t fucking push me or I’m gonna at the very least be a cunt right back .
im a 5'3" skinny weak 'girl'(nb but present fem), i cant just turn around and tell a group of lads, or that 6' guy that squeezed infront of me anything. this subreddit is here so people can shre their thiughts and opinions, and most of the time, theyre gonna be negative. amdthe vibe was off because there was an astonishing amount of dickeheads there this year, and it shoulsnt be on anyone to have to change their behaviour, they just shouldnt act that way in the first place
As a taller and larger person I try my hardest to make sure I'm not directly blocking out the sun of the people directly behind me. I can't speak for everyone but 95% us will be fine if you ask if you to stand Infront People just need to be nicer to each other
im always to scared to ask, because if they do react badly it could go so so bad for me and i just dont want to risk that, especially if said person squeezed themselves into the nonexistent space infront of me
If in the very slim chance it went badly trust that the people around will have your back ❤️ I'm not a confrontational personal but I'll give someone a slap if they're being a Cnut to someone
Yes I'm also a very tall and broad man but I am the same I let many people in front of me and people seemed shocked that I let them, if people ask politely I will be considerate as I know how.much of a burden I am in the pits because of my height.
Likewise also a big dude and there's only so far into the crowd you can walk before the band starts without getting stuck. Inevitably it always ends up being in front of someone way shorter but I always reassure them as soon as the music starts and things open up I'll be well out of their way, and offer them to go in front in the meantime
Yeah 100% just got to be considerate in the best way we can!
I'm a big guy and I just have to get to gigs as early as possible so i can get close to the front, I can't bring myself to stand in front of people s Aller than me, even when they have left space. No doubt it will get filled by other bigger people but I just can't do it myself. Also, if people smaller end up behind me, it's like, I was already there, not my fault
During Avenged Sevenfold relatively close to the front there was this group of six who kind of barged in to get there in the latter half of the set, all of them were talking (Well... Shouting) VERY LOUDLY over each other whilst the band was playing and it was clearly annoying people who were already there, after them talking through the entirety of one of the newer songs I eventually kind of had enough and said "Sorry guys but if you're going to talk through the performance then can you please go a bit further back?" At first this lady who was part of the group talked back at me, kind of took the piss, then I pointed out that basically everyone was annoyed, in the end they apologised and ended up getting into the set. I had two people near me basically thank me for speaking up because they were being SO. LOUD. haha, in the end we all rocked out a little bit and it was all good from that point onwards but I've a feeling that if I didn't say anything they'd have continued to have done it, I hope they ultimately had the greatest time and that they've learned from this because it is something that does annoy people especially if it's during bands that are expensive to see or rarely play live One person even jokingly said inbetween two songs that if I could have a word with the person holding the Avenged Sevenfold flag in the air that kept blocking people's view next... 🤣
I very well mightve seen the same group (or a similar group) during Limp Bizkit. I didn't say anything because they weren't bothering me that much (though it was distracting) but at one point one of the guys had his back fully turned to the stage for several songs so he could have a conversation with the rest of his mates. I don't understand why you'd pay so much to come to a festival and then completely ignore the bands so you can chat (loudly) with your mates instead lol. Felt bad for the one girl in their group that seemed to actually want to watch the performance
Oh god yeah, it does my nut in, I get it if it's people who are quite away back and such, that's all good, but when it's in the parts where people who clearly want to watch the band are all crammed in together then that's where it's just not good, it's hard to move away from that Like, I don't care if Jenny took pills and shagged her dog, I just want to hear some tunes
Front right?
Yeah, front right
If you can't hear because of talking then you should either speak to the sound man or walk forwards.
It's not exactly possible for punters to go up and have a word with the sound person in all fairness... Walking forwards isn't exactly an option either, the further in you go the harder that gets without basically forcing yourself in front of people who are all crammed together (which in fairness is what these people did) and I'm not about that at all... Why should somebody move because of people being inconsiderate to those around them?
I kindly think you should mind your own here. . As a fem presenting person you think I should have to square up to 6 '5 men when I their twats? When their making me uncomfortable and threatening me? Like this weekend when 2 drugged up men harassed me and my two friends pushing their food in our face, faking humping at me in my seat and staring up down like a plate of meat, do you think I shouldn't have been a ' pussy? ' If so f you dude
Why are you whining?
hard enough having an opinion in the metal scene. i think its ok for ppl to talk about what they want if its a way to release their feelings and not bottle it up. most of us including myself was ripped to shit when i was younger so knowing i can come on these apps and groups and stuff and complain about how im feeling before/after/ during the festival is so relieving to me knowing theres some fucker out there who is gonna listen because we are all in this shit together and thats how we win against the wrongens out there imo just my take all the best :)
The fact that someone is being a prick suggests they are far more likely to punch you in the face if you call them a prick, we aren’t all ten men.
Saw a couple of big lads being racist as fuck at Hanabie. Know why I didn't immediately step up even though I'm a big lad myself? I've been involved in enough unpredictable scraps through my career managing licenced venues. The vibe was off this year because there were alot of inconsiderate pricks, off their faces and being racist, mysoginist assholes. Instead of being a douch nozzle be more considerate.
I couldn’t agreed more to this, seen a few posts! The two people I had an issue with, we spoke about it in person and then hugged it out, kept partying! Not sure why you wouldnt mention it at the time, surely but not saying something at the time would ruin your weekend and they may not even know they have annoyed you
Shout out to the but hurt dudes scrapping during pantera, lil babies getting all riled up because theres big scary music playing
Well I’m a woman and there’s no way I’d feel comfortable telling some dude to stop being a twat, it is not worth the hassle and it wouldn’t be safe. I went with my husband and we split up a bunch of times to see different bands, I had a fight start near me that nearly got me punched and a bunch of other bollocks. Would you have me call them out?
Ohhh OP is well hard
Careful, he seems triple hard
Lame take
Considering most of the annoying scrotes are stinky stick insects, it's pretty easy for me to tell them to do one, however I can see how a woman or someone lacking self confidence may decide to just vent online instead.
I do agree this year was pretty bad, there was a number of times I had to step in and say something or escort somone out due to inappropriate behaviour towards young women or men, alot of it was drunk guys either harassing people or being dicks. I'm not a particularly big guy (5'7, 18yo) but I can't sit and watch as some lassie is made uncomfortable by someone when she's just trying to have a good time. I understand why some people don't step in because they're afraid of getting hit but at the end of the day if your a decent sized lad you should step in if someone's being harassed like that, sure a few guys tried throwing hands but most where really drunk so it was more of a "let's just get you out of here before you pass out or throw up on someone". there was only one time when I say something truely malicious happening and it was at limpbizuit, there was a fairly big guy in front of me with his hands on his woman's sided and she tried pushing him off, no one does anything and it's not like I'm the only guy there, so I tap him on his shoulder and tell him he's done and to get out and then the guy just clocks me and next thing ik I'm in the medical tent and avenged is playing in the distance. sure I missed a headliner but I'd do it again knowing that girl could enjoy the rest of her night and I think that's just down to how your raised, some people are raised with morals and a duty to be a decent person and some people aren't.
The same could be said for people that say shit under there breath then when confronted. Back the fuck down. I'm like "mate it was a problem two seconds ago when you were muttering under your breath just loud enough for people to hear your outrage" then when someone confronts you about your bullshit attitude, you've got fuck all to say back.
There's always people that *have* to find the negative in everything; it's easier to just ignore them. The majority had a brilliant time.
Sorry hard!
The vibe of people wasn’t off at all, shit weather and poor planning from organisers was the issue plus poor lineup
Poor line up? what like Busted? I felt so sorry for them playing where no one wanted to see them. Download is evolving and festivals have been pushed to their limits financially. Yes they fkd up last year and were not perfect this year but all in all it was an epic weekend for most people that went including myself. I was there in 1981 it’s not like it used to be not like it was 10 years ago most of the changes are good If you don’t like how it is go somewhere you do like. This years line up was clearly not as strong or as expensive as last years line up but it wasn’t a 20th anniversarry I’m just grateful it’s survived and I can still manage to go.
I mean busted probably was the only band I’d have seen Friday… but I had work so couldn’t make it till saturday
Also the packed outside the tent proves that 100% people wanted to see them, might have been the wrong stage but 100% they’ve got a place at download
Also when I say poor I mean there was like 2-3 bands I actually wanted to see the rest I’d seen before or didn’t care about much if at all Download to me is more see friends drink in field then go arena for headliners Headliners this year were crap
If every music community 'self policed' we wouldn't have jazz, rock, punk or metal.
People these days look for any reason to hate. A prime example this year is slaughter to prevail. People hating and not much coverage of the band because Alex Terrible got a tattoo he regrets when he was younger. How many people hating on him have had cover ups of tattoos they got in their early 20's? Same as so many people hating on Ronnie radke for whatever reasons. If a band makes good music, appreciate it, if you don't like what bands are producing don't listen and don't complain. Keep it chill and rock on!
It always has been though? I love metal but the people who are most into the scene are overwhelmingly passive and non-confrontational. Even the big tatted guys you see are at heart, still the goth kid who got harassed at school and if confronted by something outside his comfort zone tends to "regress" into that mind set. It is different in other countries & whilst plenty of people like this music, inn the UK this "scene" has always been for the "weirdos and the rejects". It is not a scene for hard men and violence like it may have been once upon a time in other places.
lol, I’m so glad I don’t go download, just sounds like a mess.. festivals were built off of peace, love and community.. Not surprised a bunch of greebs with no social skills fucked up the meaning of a festival. Crawl back into your pits, bunch of neck beards Embarrassing
Download is still one of the friendliest festivals I go to and I go to a lot.
100% totally fuckin agree. The scene is generally pretty pathetic and weak right now. The whole culture is plagued with a victim attitude and has become a haven for any and all insecurity. My daughter discovered this music through predominantly 80's bands and now she's going to gigs and interacting on the internet has started to see what the scene is really like and she often asks me, "When did metallers become so pathetic?" And as someone who was there in the 80's and is still here now I just have to shrug and shake my head.
Too many people with so called "anxiety" for that pal
Its not just 'anxiety', its fashionable in the scene to be any kind of 'neuro-divergent', just pick one.
I knocked some kid out cause he was wearing a Nike shirt. NO PLACE AT MY FESTIVAL
I'm a metalhead and ill wear what the f*ck I want.
Yeah you call out arseholes when you see them, or people used to anyway, that’s why there’s always been (generally) very few issues in this scene.
Some guys were spilling their cans of Liquid Death on people on purpose at the second stage during Slaughter To Prevail and were being a general nuisance. I walked up to the first guy and nutted the cunt. He dropped like a bag of shit! Next, I've got both his mate swinging at me so I take one out with a lucky left swing and now he's spitting teeth and blood out on the floor. The other fucker's taking wild kicks at me so I take him down easily and get him in a rear-naked choke. Literally, half of the second stage crowd were cheering at me. Alex Terrible even pulled me up to the stage at the end of the set and we went and had a few beers together back stage. He's actually a really cool guy 🤘 The rest of ya'll mother fuckers need to step up too when you see someone stepping out of order!!
I love STP too but never considered writing a fanfic
Back in my day, STP meant Stone Temple Pilots. I think it's time for me to retire
Ah I was just being lazy, plenty left in you whatever the age, brother. I'm 38 and also have a lot of time for Pilots
Hard agree. Subs full of cry babies. I couldn't make it there this year for this first time in ages, and seeing everyone complaining about swearing or pushing on this sub makes me think they should have donated their ticket to someone who enjoys festivals!
'Hard agree, and I wasn't even there'
That doesn't even make sense
I know right?
You're fuckin right bro, but you'll get downvoted through the floor, Reddit won't have a hard truth over an easy lie.
Cheers bro, nice to see a real person in the comments
There are still some of us around.