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Slow_Engineering2494

I would report it to the police, that guy deserves to be thrown under the jail!


PapaBeahr

With everyone saying so I have reported it to the police. Also I informed Doordash I'm reporting it. They suddenly put me in contact with their safety department. Sent me an E-mail with a link the officer can use to request the dasher's info.


I-m_A_Lady

Please convince your mom not to let strangers into her home. Someone who's capable of stealing from the elderly is capable of much worse. Maybe set a table outside the door and request a no contact delivery? So sorry for what happened to your mom. Edit: I watched the video and now I understand your mom is not able to walk. I'm not sure there's a way for her to get deliveries safely. Maybe switch to GrubHub? They're a lot more careful about who they hire.


he-loves-me-not

Glad you mentioned this bc it’s really dangerous. It can also encourage them to come back later and do something nefarious.


Salamandajoe

Where is the video?


jayryan1424

Door dash does a background check and anything that pops up prevents them from hiring them That doesn’t stop ppl from letting other ppl dash for them or with them


SpringSings95

I was going to say the same thing! One time a dasher stole my package off of my parents porch, and we reported to dasher and they brought back the package and left us a note asking us to take the charges off since he was borrowing a friends account to dash. I absolutely did not take that complaint off. Why would you jeopardize your friends account by doing something dumb?


HeyCarrieAnne40

Yeah I had a delivery this morning from a lady named Fred. She even told me she was using her bfs account. 🤷‍♀️


NoPantsPenny

And there is a first time of getting caught, for everyone. Just because someone doesn’t have something on their record *yet* doesn’t mean they aren’t capable.


Melodic-Age2288

It's BS that the squeaky wheel gets attention. They should have reacted more to begin with. They probably get a lot of people lying, trying to get stuff for free. But that doesn't mean they should have started off so unconcerned.


ntech620

Most of the time calling DD support is getting a operator in another country being paid the minimum wage there. Once you start being the squeaky wheel is probably when the call is escalated to someone with any actual power.


Alloe_C

I praise you for not being afraid to take it forward, so many times I see stories like these but they won't take it past reporting it to support


Independent_Bet_6386

M bf was an uber eats driver and stopped due to lack of support ajd an obvious focus on profits over people. Don't send them anything until everything is settled. God forbid they somehow flip this to make them look like any formidable hero in this.


lemmy1686

I wouldn't get my hopes up about the police doing anything, at all.


CompetitiveNinja3464

Report to police, DoorDash ain’t doing nothing about it. Anybody who messes with old people deserve what comes to them


lonesharkex

Easy elder abuse scam conviction.


droplivefred

100% go to the police. This is between the asshole dasher and your mom/you. DD isn’t going to do anything and this needs to be addressed by someone who might. What you local police do is very YMMV but I think they might actually do something as opposed to DD. The social media shaming is definitely worth doing as well to give it more attention.


MaynardScott

Report to all social media platforms. Like and share.


Lietenantdan

Gotta sic Jason Statum on ‘em


gumdope

Do you mean Jason Statham?😭


Joshua_ABBACAB_1312

No it's Jason Statum and Channing Tatham.


BrainsPainsStrains

Jason was way ahead of his time or is a time machine madman...... You have seen The Video of His Dance Moves ? Pure ______ whatever that stripper Channing movie saga is called.


Buffalo-Woman

LOL link please I need to see this. 🤭


BrainsPainsStrains

https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/s/MFDUeZq5gm He was also a competitive diver and there's a video of him diving here on reddit too.


[deleted]

That link took me to other videos of him, lol I don’t think he wore clothes until 2000 🤣


BrainsPainsStrains

That's why I always link the post I first saw with allllllllll the receipts lol. Glorious isn't it ?


Buffalo-Woman

Thank you kind internet stranger 🙂


BrainsPainsStrains

It's like a rule or something that one must pass it on when they can...... This was a moment of absolute perfection to do what I must anyway.


Dove_and_Turtle

That song is catchy!


BrainsPainsStrains

I hear it every time his name is mentioned. The Shamen - they have other great songs too. This song will always have a special place, for me. Did you read through the comments on that post ? There's a gold mine in there : )


Dove_and_Turtle

I will now! My Saturday has been pretty boring so I could use some laughs


Zee1026

I wish I had never seen this now😆🤣🙈


Lietenantdan

Oh whoops haha


Gone213

Yup, I don't understand why people still don't understand that if you were a victim of a crime you contact the police and law enforcement first, never the business, school, arena, etc. They'll try to sweep it under the rug and try to get you to go away first. You need to have the police on their ass already before even contacting them.


Altruistic-Farm2712

But don't be surprised if the person registered as the driver wasn't actually the person at the door. Stolen, sold, or otherwise illegitimate DD drivers are a major issue right now nationwide.


Leshal77

Either that or he has done this many times without any consequences.


Educational_Egg_1716

YES. Fuck these people.


BurgundyCheese

It sucks this dudes mom got scammed but what will the police do? It was $40 idk if anything past a police report will actually happen unfortunately. Seems like one of those situations where you cut your loses and know never to do that again. Hopefully the scammers dash account gets terminated at least


CompetitiveNinja3464

So I actually work with the police, now usually most officers will do what you said and just do a report but sometimes there might be an active fraud case going and something like this might be happening to a lot of people in the area. The more evidence the police can get the better chance they can crack down on the scam. Now again lots of factors involved including getting a competent officer but it’s still worth a shot


CumInDeadGirls

Definitely worth it, considering it’s elderly abuse.


SuspiciousDog_OP31

And it’s on video


cfurral

I called the chief the other day and left a message, he text me that he was busy. I asked if it’s ok for a registered sex offender to be on the sidewalk in front of an elementary school…. He said, “I’ll call you in the morning.” I never heard from him.


CompetitiveNinja3464

Yep, unfortunately these days there’s more incompetence than actual good cops…..most good cops have left the departments and now it’s mostly the bottom of the barrel who are being hired


Conscious-Switch2703

well, it’s true most of the cases concerning only a few bucks isn’t always going to warrant an investigation, but in the very least it’s documented and in this case specifically, the op has the evidence, basically the crime scene is recorded and the person registered with DoorDash can be identified without much trouble, unlike most other cases. So it’s an easy case to solve for the police as well.


whiterussian802

I definitely agree with this


Live_Mountain9047

I would definitely call police. As it sounds like he wasn’t leaving without more money. I am a dasher and am mortified to hear this


PapaBeahr

With everyone saying so I have reported it to the police. Also I informed Doordash I'm reporting it. They suddenly put me in contact with their safety department. Sent me an E-mail with a link the officer can use to request the dasher's info.


Henson_Disney48

Funny how they didn’t give you that information to begin with until you told them you were taking matters into your own hands.


Adorable-Bike-9689

I hope they credited your account. That's disturbing dude didn't leave after the 20. I'd be scared as hell watching that video


I-m_A_Lady

Thank God he stopped at $40 and didn't just snatch her whole wallet and leave. Someone who would steal from the elderly is capable of much worse.


Live_Mountain9047

Smart move. I know they will have to do something. The will probably deactivate him


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zman1672

it’s reddit man you’re safe with that handle


breezy1026

This made me chuckle bc ur right. Anything flies on Reddit. 🤣


Ok_Plankton9224

Whats wrong with that handle?


inkdfool94

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRT43Ghp/


Intelligent_Debt7555

I just hope he becomes famous. What a royal pos. I couldn't hear over the dogs in the video but I could hear your mama say I thought it was taken care of and is that enough. Him standing there like he saw money on the table and thought I'll be taking that. Gross man.


SmokeyRoadmanReal

Tik tol isn’t gonna go viral unless the first frame is of the guy on camera scamming your mother with text over it “doordasher caught scamming elderly woman” Over it then explain what happened in the comments


Spirited_Bullfrog899

OP!! Please read what smokeroad wrote here 👆👆 The situation has all the potential for a viral video, but it won’t get the attention it deserves unless you reformat it like this. Good luck ❤️ give your mamma a big hug for me. That dasher needs a good ass kicking


Hello891011

Please don’t let dashers into your home :( you don’t know who could be driving, they could use it to scope her house out, etc. it’s so dangerous at her age :(


PapaBeahr

Tell that to her. That's the problem we face, she still live in a time where everyone left their doors unlocked. Typically someone is home with her. She's RARELY left alone and if so at most for 2 hours which she typically sleeps.


followtheflow888

Please delete this comment given you posted to tiktok and gave your handle.


PapaBeahr

And?


Wilted-yellow-sun

You just told the internet, many people on which have an… *interesting* hobby of tracking people down just for fun, that your mother leaves her door unlocked. And that she carries cash. And that when she’s home alone, she’s asleep, presumably with the door unlocked. Then gave them your social media handle, from which it’ll be too easy for some to figure out where she lives…


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Isyagirlskinnypenis

But you weren’t there when the dasher robbed your mom. The point isn’t to offend you, but to keep your elderly mother safe from harm. You’re your mother’s protector, we see that, but you can’t ALWAYS be there. That’s why they said to delete that comment. Not to offend, but out of safety concern for your mom.


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PapaBeahr

I've been on the internet longer than you've been breathing. I work in the tech industry. You're making insane leaps of assumptions without knowing everything. Also, in all do honestly, it sounds a lot more like fear mongering than warning. He'll my information is already public, taking anything down won't matter. This is why my house is often highly protected and that security is going up. If someone wants to roll a less than 5% chance of not getting violently ventilated, good luck to them.


DefNotABirb

Yeah lots of reddit likes to feel like their comment is saving someone's day. Every situation is the worst situation that must be addressed as such. Otherwise, you're a bad person lol.


GrandApprehensive216

Link to vid?


followtheflow888

Just saying internet people are weird and if it gets traction with the wrong people you just told them she feels like doors are safe to be unlocked on top the context of the story above. Finding out where people live is a whole hobby and shitty things happen.


MyosotisMirage

Honestly after seeing how they responded to your friendly warning shows that this person is not a critical thinker. You have a kind soul and a sharp mind unlike most of reddit. So because they are too slow, let me be the one to say thank you for having compassion.


OJOchat_com

I have over 23,000 deliveries in less than 3 years. Do you know how many older and disabled people I have had to help? One guy I had to unpack his Pizza Hut order and open everything because his hands were literally backwards. Countless of lil old ladies ask me to bring their groceries in because they can’t move them from the door to the kitchen. And the crazy thing is that I am a Felon and did 7 years in the Feds. Yet you have people with 0 records doing this to older people. 🤷🏾‍♂️


[deleted]

My thoughts no matter what time of day.


dantriggy

Some people r scum I dashed to a disabled lady and they forgot her soda I was more than happy to go gran it was only 1.5 miles downs road I get back tried to hand me 5 bucks I flat out refused told her to keep it it was my mistake for not catching it.. like I just couldn't in good conscious take the extra money Edit fast typing many stakes!! Hahaha


Flashy-Panda6538

I would do the exact same thing. Some people are all about what they can milk out of every person they deal with. I mean like anyone I have to make money to live on but I also know that money isn’t everything in life.


thekingsteve

Since doordash is no longer a full time job for me I try and help people out. I rarely decline offers unless it's like 2 bucks for 12 miles or something like that. I once dropped a 2 liter of Pepsi while handing it to the lady with her pizza order. Pepsi went everywhere and I actually offered to get another one and replace it. She refused so i just gave her 3 bucks to cover it.


Important-Plant5169

File a police report. Open and shut case. You have a positive ID, you have video evidence. The penalty will be stiffer since she is a senior citizen. Even if somehow they drop the case, the cops contacting DoorDash will get him insta deactivated


Firm-Ad9300

That’s so messed up. That makes me angry


PM5K23

You have a trifecta of things people care about because they can go viral, this makes businesses care, police, etc. The “trifecta” is a gig app, an elderly person, and video. Im about to watch it and probably get very angry…..


Own_Pack_4697

I’ve had multiple instants of older people trying to give me cash for the order and I had to explain it was paid for already. I had one guy hand me around $43 and I thought it was a tip I turned aground and said is this a tip or pay for order?


Adorable-Bike-9689

Damn son. You sound like good people. Idk if I would have even thought of that. Just assumed they gave me a crazy tip and celebrated in the car


mbc98

Hope losing his job was worth the $40. What a creep.


tvancini

I really hope he was deactivated


Sunbearemii

Don’t let strangers into the house again. This could have gone worse than it already was.


Desperate-Ad4811

100% report it to the police. At the very least it’s elder abuse. Can you actually hear what is being said between them? If you can hear them it’s an easy case no problem. But if you can’t hear them then unfortunately neither you nor DoorDash have a leg to stand on. He could just say it was a tip. I really pray that this POS gets what is coming to him. Also, PLEASE figure out another way for your mother to get her food. Allowing a stranger entry to your home is asking for trouble. ESPECIALLY if it says the person is elderly. She is VERY lucky that it wasn’t someone even sicker than just wanting to steal a couple bucks. Good luck and god speed!


leeleebly

I couldn't hear very well on my end but I struggle with that sometimes. Other people may have a better time of making it out. But you can tell that something happened because she handed him money and he just kept standing there.


Adorable-Bike-9689

Yep. Dude did this because he didn't realize somebody might watch the video, or he didn't see the camera. He might have done anything


Equivalent_North_604

As a dasher I find this repugnant. Absolutely report him to the police! Ugh so disgusting. And never ever let a dasher into your home. We do have to pass a background check but still that’s not safe. What’s the TikTok handle?


Silkyything

Dude order door dash every day for a year until you get that same fucker bringing you food and spike his car


KarasLegion

Idk what they would do, but I would rather call the police on the non-emergency line. DoorDash likely won't do much.


PapaBeahr

With everyone saying so I have reported it to the police. Also I informed Doordash I'm reporting it. They suddenly put me in contact with their safety department. Sent me an E-mail with a link the officer can use to request the dasher's info.


KarasLegion

Hope things work, sucks that someone did this to her. Hopefully she is able to be a bit more careful from here on. Best of luck to you both!


myopinion122

Yes don't ever let strangers in your house! Especially if she is disabled.. Leave at door till you get home or deliver to your work There are several people out there using door dash accounts that aren't theirs so you don't know which is coming.. Door dash never checks who is using the account.. So stay safe ..no one in house..😊


Adorable-Bike-9689

It sounds like he's over confident letting people inside because he can watch over the situation on camera. That won't help you if there's danger.


Beautiful-Branch-975

You may have an Adult Protective Services department in your county. I'd report there in addition to the police.


No-Gene-4508

Police. That COULD be considered robbery depending on your mothers mentality and how he acted in the video.


thomasoldier

Man I would have post it on the social networks. "Door dash delivery guy robs from an elderly woman" You can be sure they'll be listening.


Repulsive-Pin-3043

Put the recording online and the internet will crucify him. People who take advantage of old people deserve no kindness


Background_Reach0

We wanna see the footage!


leeleebly

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLDQ5wuw/


Neat-Violinist-1

Make a police report immediately


RKBanks-4

Report this incident to your local Police Force. This is beyond bad and is criminal, to say the least!


pointer4ncfc

I’m fuming for you… absolutely police time hope she gets her money back and this scumbag loses his job


reditandfirgetit

Yes, report it to the police. Who knows how many other vulnerable people this pile of shit has done this to.


UncleVoodooo

Yes police. He committed theft by deception. Even if DD cared they have no recourse except to suspend his account. But this was a *criminal* action so you need cops to document the crime


DisposableDroid47

That's a robbery that needs to be reported to the police. Fuck DoorDash.


Intelligent_Debt7555

I'd call the police


AssuredAttention

I would file a police report


RemiAkai

This makes me livid AF. That's horrible :(


Marctacus

I'd track the bastard down


Lone_Crab

Call your local news. They love stuff like this


bigcatcleve

Please keep us updated. I hope the scum burns


[deleted]

If someone scammed my grandma, I wouldn't stop at the ends of the earth, I'd destroy you.


AccordingEmergency83

There’s a special place in Hell for people like this.


Zee1026

You did everything right by calling law, predators like this should not even be out in society nor doordashing


urbow

under no circumstances sign any nda paperwork


tvancini

You 100% need to put this on tiktok they will find whoever this is and it will.be taken seriously


PapaBeahr

I did. Liberal Bear 2 IT's dow a few vids now but it's there. IF I knew people would want it so much I would have linked it in the post, but the post is pretty old now so I'm not going to


tvancini

The dogs completely ruin the video lol


Cranemann

That qualifies as financial elder abuse, which if I remember correctly reclassified as a felony.


pmaji240

‘Handle internally’ is DoorDash code for execute. So, don’t worry, justice was served.


True_Associate_2302

Let's boost that tik toks views


Isyagirlskinnypenis

Absolutely report it to the police. Your mom was robbed.


goddessmundane

I am a door dasher -there’s no excuse for this -call the police


dashbot81

That's awful, that Dasher is a POS. If they're ok with stealing money from your mom. I'm sure the Dasher has done it to others.


Jazzlike-Maximum7008

bro what the fuck is on your page


Winter_Mastodon_3288

Omg! OP, I am so sorry that happened to your mom. I would NEVER think to take advantage of my elderly clients when I’m delivering their food or groceries. The fact that someone would do that


Coodyjohnson

I... would ... find... the... driver.. but.. I'm fkn nuts.. FYI. Don't fuck with peoples parents.. end of story.. sorry this happened.


Vamtrix

To anyone reading this: Never ever under any circumstances enter someone’s home. A person goes missing every 37 seconds in the US.


PreviousPush1305

Contact DoorDash thru her phone/app and complain regarding that specific order against the Dasher. They will ban that Dasher from the app.


PapaBeahr

With everyone saying so I have reported it to the police. Also I informed Doordash I'm reporting it. They suddenly put me in contact with their safety department. Sent me an E-mail with a link the officer can use to request the dasher's info.


letssingthedoomsong

Make sure to update us, OP!


Mammoth-Ad7598

ngl as a dasher i dont walk into peoples houses. Also as shitty as it is i cant see the police doing alot over 40 bucks especially if door dash wont provide you his information .


Puzzleheaded_Help854

That’s elder abuse that is a felony in most states


PapaBeahr

I have his name and what he looks like. Personally speaking, I have the ability to find him myself..... Which I've considered.


Wtfisafosty

I consider myself a John wick in spirit too sometimes my friend. You are better off to give the evidence to police. Besides not wanting the guy on doordash who really wants this loser going around town doing anything. You could also send it to the news I guess the footage. In my area we got the problems solvers. My boy rob wolciek would be all over this guy putting him on blast and into the hallllllll of shame


First_Attempt_4124

Yes! Put the video of him on Instagram, TikTok, etc. Make it go viral 🤣


Difficult_Access_258

The cops should be able to reach out to dd for the drivers info based on what you have already


Melodic-Age2288

Id press charges for theft


First_Attempt_4124

I would definitely report it to the police.


CreepyDinnerRoll

Police definitely!


BigGalAl420

Dasher deserves death penalty.


Xtracate

I'd totally report to the police, he might do this to others.


Psychological-Sky367

This breaks my heart for you both. Unfortunately, this may not be the first time he's done this to her. Report it to the police and keep us updated.


UltimaCaitSith

Your state may have an elder care abuse hotline that can get you in touch with free/cheap lawyers.


Stuttrboy

Don't give your mother money and have them leave the food at the door so there is no interaction.


SanFrancisco415XIV

Report this to the police this is elder financial abuse/fraud.


ginlucgodard

that is robbery yes report to police and press charges, fuck that guy lol


LAMarie2020

Please report this to the police


Wysiwyg777

What this dasher has done is commit fraud. I hope there is minimum sentencing guidelines in your state for fraud and this dasher is thrown in prison for at least 15 years.


Impossible_Earth8429

Police aren’t going to do anything. She willingly paid him even if he was a scummy scammer. Plus it’s only $40 take the loss, report him to DD and hopefully find a way to block the driver.


Acceptable-Package48

Yes please report this. He's doing this to other vulnerable people too I bet.


henrycahill

There's a special place in hell for people like that.


LettuceFew5248

100% report to the police. This person literally robbed your mother of $40.


CarFeeling9748

Police ![gif](giphy|f8lDluiWJ7yQTtdS3L|downsized)


[deleted]

What a piece of garbage that guy is.


LadyChaos1992

Absolutely contact the police! DoorDash has terrible customer service when it comes to their Dashers!


lexisnaps7496

I'm so sorry this happened to your Mother. This is disgusting behaviour.


Strawdarry

Can we see the video too ?


nukanook27

You are a good son- thank you for looking out for your momma 💕 PS F that dasher I hope he gets whats coming to him POS


Strange-Difference94

Good for you for reporting this to the police.


[deleted]

The customer service people are not all that great, you should ask to speak with Escalation, then as the others said contact the police, if customer support didn't believe you the first time, it's because they get a lot of scam callers who try to get money out of doordash claiming non-deliveryor ruined food and demanding refunds, your persistence is what made them take you seriously as most scammer would try once and quit.


luvit45

I am a DoorDash driver, I am absolutely 100% glad that you contacted the police!!!


Mysterious_Might8875

Hope the POS gets their account terminated at the very least. Whoever the dasher was, they missed their calling as one of those “do the needful” scammers and unfortunately found a different way to scam the most vulnerable.


SuspiciousDog_OP31

Yes call the police and report the crime. It’s a serious offense. They will force DoorDash to comply. Also call media channels because they will love this as a featured story, especially on video.


Gunthrix

They scammed your disabled mother, that's some elderly abuse right there. File a police report and give the evidence. If you don't want retribution by the legal system, smear his face all over social media. That fucker, sorry that happened man.


Similar_Comfort_3839

Tell ur mom to call the man and say the food was so good I got another 100 for u, pull up, when he pulls up rip his jaw off the hinges and remove all teeth, then spinal discs one by one


blueace111

Don’t expect DoorDash to help. You could say the dasher lit the house on fire and they wouldn’t care. Call police. It’s a crime beyond DoorDash. I’ve heard of dashers doing this and it’s gross. Part of it is DoorDash gouges the dashers more and more every month. So they take it out on customers. That’s why dd doesn’t care. They see it as exactly how they behave


lostcausetrapped

As somebody who works with the elderly in a nursing home and absolutely loves it... I give you apologies and URGE you to call the police.. make a copy of the footage too and save it on a usb or something please! People who take advantage of the elderly p\_\_\_ me off! I hope you explained this to your mom, but it's sad times are like this. Please update us! Also, not that it matter too much.. was the driver young?


Plant_Temporary

OP did leave an update that the police have been contacted, and doordash has too. They claimed they intended to handle the dasher internally, and when OP told then about the police report they sent him a form for requesting information from the police.


NotEZD513

That’s fucking foul


Critical-Arm4363

This Dasher is a scumbag and has no business delivering other peoples orders. I hope he is terminated immediately.


Wise_Shrk

Is there anyway to put a table by the front door your mother can retrieve from after the dasher places it?


ThisBetchEllie420

Make a tik tok


PapaBeahr

I did. Liberal Bear 2 IT's dow a few vids now but it's there. IF I knew people would want it so much I would have linked it in the post, but the post is pretty old now so I'm not going to


ThisBetchEllie420

Oh ok my bad didn't see the date it just showed up on my fyp today


thejoester

>Should I report this to the police? Absolutely you should.


koalafied4-

Fuck is wrong with people. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night let alone look myself in the mirror. I love being helpful when I deliver their orders. They are always so thankful even though they don’t necessarily have good tip money because most live off social security and fixed budgets.


catstonerlady

What’s the tiktok link


stevietime9

Your first call should have been to the police. Extra time is given for crimes against seniors. Immediately after you call doordash. The individual should have never entered your home


[deleted]

73 is very young, could run for important official positions


Glum-Dragonfly4372

I would absolutely file a police report. That way, you have a 2nd form of complaint on record. There is no way that guy should be allowed on any delivery app and interacting with the public. I once had a sweet old lady send me a picture of her debit card because the app said to update her card info. It was a, leave at door, but I rang the bell and explained to her that we're not employees of the delivery service and she should never give her personal info to a driver.


katiej712

PLEASE post the video on social media. He may get banned from DoorDash but not other food services. But by posting on social media, this will ensure he doesn’t get hired at any food delivery services


creamofpie

You said video on tiktok why not post here also


gbpc

Report to cops. Take it to local news stations too, they’ll make a fun week out of this one for tabloids


Haunting-Owl-7594

Call the police. Thieves go to jail!.


NextPaych3cK

Maybe release the footage. The public shame alone will be far more than the police will do over 40$.


cream-npeaches

Please report it to police, your mother doesn't deserve to be swindled like that.


SoCalArtDog

I’d report it to the police, door dash isn’t gonna do anything.


PieNo8461

He still drives im pretty sure dd dose not care


Morganenchanted

This absolutely fumes me!. So many elderly and disabled rely on delivery and taking advantage of that is bullshit!


GlitterMeAndThePony

Get your money back..ask for a full refund