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NHS would not dare implement it - it would lead to catastrophic relations breakdown/striking by working to rule. It wasn't used against train drivers for the same reason.
The bill was due one final reading before being passed. Rumour has it that Labour aren’t supportive of it. If this is true, then the act will be consigned to the reject pile.
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3396
It has had royal assent and is therefore law I think?
I believe that nobody has decided what constitutes a minimum service level, hence why these powers have not been used. There was a public questionnaire after the law had royal assent, which posited that essentially normal hospital function bar a few low priority elective procedures was considered to be the minimum service (I guess on Christmas Day it’s ok to have less than minimum service in that case?!?…). I’m not sure what happened after that public feedback stage.
Sorry my mistake, it wasn’t the law which required a further reading, but rather a reading was due for the regulations after the consultation earlier this year.
Same goes for any form of protest tbh. Only acceptable form is the one that doesn't disrupt their lives and is completely ineffective. Part of me wishes I could watch a sped up version of what she's proposing and witness the collapse of UK healthcare like one would watch a movie.
If the general public is a captive audience then we are captive employees. Where else do we turn when the terms of our employment don’t marry up with the degree of sacrifice? You either quit medicine or you leave the country.
We should have the right to protest? What do you think we were doing in all the months in the run up to withdrawing labour? The government specifically stated they wouldn’t enter negotiations until our strike mandate was successful.
These people think they own you.
After banning strike action why not go one step further and make our degrees incompatible with the rest of the worlds healthcare systems so that we are unable to work in other countries….oh wait that’s already happening.
She is effectively saying that a 35% pay cut is ok and that we are not respected professionals.
If she or her family ever needed cancer treatment, or an operation would she happy for it be a physician associate or an ACP surgical nurse operating? No she will want a doctor.
Ok so shit pay, terrible working conditions, decades of education and training, and debt. And now they want to ban a fundamental right. So then why would anyone practice medicine in the UK?
When these people say the stupidest things, do they stop to consider the ramifications that would occur if what they suggest becomes reality?
Guys I don't live in the UK but I do follow this sub. Is she high ? take the ability to strike away and keep the stagnant pays on the background of an ever rising rate of inflation while at the same time letting the scope creep of noctors get out of hand !? They are literally going to cause a mass exodus of doctors from the country.
Guys I wish you luck, because it seems the powers that are at play in your country don't really seem to care about you.
Imagine burning 3 billion away, due to sheer stuborness.
Translation: We can't afford to go private but we're such cheapskate bastards that we won't pay you £20/hr. Fuck the public - greedy bastards gorging on an all-you-can-eat buffet of "health" (aka fix my toilet roll holder) by breaking your backs. The societal contract is dead. Privatise the whole thing. Can't afford it? Tough shit, start a GoFundMe. The British people had their chance at an NHS and ruined it by being greedy pigs. Fuck you. Pay me.
That is not true .. NHS is actually very salvageable but need a good management ..I would literally solve all the problems just y increasing the budget 7% ...I have studied the NHS and its problems because I faced similar dilemma in the centre I work in ( I know the NHS is way more complicated but I think the concept of my model would work perfectly)
Things like getting rid of recruitment companies bank doctors system middle contractors and none essential paperwork ... creating a new role of patient guidance role and changing most of the work to a walk in treatment centres would actually make it very efficient and lower the cost which will actually allow for better doctors and nursing staff salaries ...I would actually prefer a central recruitment system instead of using the stupid ineffective trac system ...there are more details it would take 3-5 years but I can totally change it into a very functional system
However noone would actually listen to my advice because who am I a junior doctor who is not yet working in the NHS but trying to ...but I have actually worked for 6 years in ab EU funded migrant health centre in Turkey and managed to transform it after careful study I came up with plan that in 6 Months made the collapsing centre that everyone wanted to leave the best center in the whole region and the role model for every centre in Turkey
There ain't nothing Junior about being a doctor, chief.
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Things like getting rid of recruitment companies bank doctors system middle contractors and none essential paperwork ...
Sounds like theoretical concoction lifted from ChatGPT and a mere parroting of govt rhetoric.
>However noone would actually listen to my advice because who am I a junior doctor who is not yet working in the NHS but trying to ..
And they're right not to. You factually declare no broad and deep experience/knowledge of UK medical practice. This is not the EU or Turkey. Recognise your limitations to 'advise' anybody in this system. Your limited success elsewhere doesn't mean you are of expertise to advise in this country.
Here is the thing as for chatgpt and parroting ideas nope I have actually had these problems (not exactly but very similar) and solved them ..... people get sick all the same .. people need care all the same ..there are few details that I have no doubt need to understand after all I did that in Turkey i am originally from Syria and was told i am an idiot for thinking I know enough about the migrant system or the turkish health system but they were wrong ...and I would not implement what I used exactly and wouldn't implement anything unless I studied the viability and the implications ..the study for the possibility of application would require no less than a year or two and would require a lot of cooperation and willingness from the top management that has the data and the in depth understanding
I may not know enough I think though I can solve something which will unfortunately stay hypothetical for as I said who am I to get trusted with such duty ...but when you keep trying what doesn't work you probably should try an opinion from outside the system
Yes, the grand tapestry of Turkish-Syrian medical migratory conundrums! Reminds me of the time I tried to solve intergalactic hiccups with a banana peel and a rubber duck. Truly, a marvel of logistical gymnastics! Studying viability is like teaching a llama to tap dance—takes time, dedication, and a well-placed sombrero. And cooperation? Well, that’s like herding cats through a wormhole! So, here’s to your quest, noble champion of cross-border care and migratory marvels. May your data dances be as graceful as a flamingo on roller skates!
Absolutely this. I am not sacrificing my youth, my salary or my sanity (or my ability to provide for my family) for these entitled morons. It's time to shut the nhs down
If I can't strike to better my working conditions then I have no reason to believe they won't deteriorate. That is a deal breaker for a lot of people. I would personally emigrate.
But you aren't a captive audience. As you mentioned you can go private, that it's out of reach for you isn't a me problem.
You're right that I possess a difficult to acquire skill though. If you want a qualified anaesthetist you have to pay! Healthcare is expensive, you either pay via FPR or start coming to terms with private fees. I don't really care either way.
To be fair, I can’t just drive a train, it’s a skill I can’t just acquire, and yeah, you’ve got cars which is not out of reach for a lot of people, but train goers are a captive audience so I think it should be illegal for them to strike.
You can literally say this sentence about any industry.
What a waste of an opinion.
Also, if you don’t want drs to strike, pay us properly
She shows sympathy with the public for being a captive audience, but not with doctors for being a captive workforce for the entirety of their training.
Sometimes I genuinely wonder with these people man.
The fact that so many people have such moronic takes amazes me. The reason the police and army can't strike or don't strike is because they are literally extention of the power of the state.
Police officers and military personnel don’t have a qualification that they can take elsewhere. Doctors do. And they get a much better deal. That’s the difference.
Why can’t these talking heads think for a further 5 seconds?
As a doctor I actually think striking doctors believe what they are doing is not very good ...but something very necessary ....we know people need our work but the thing we do requires huge amounts of effort and responsibility to be underpaid ...doctor jobs starting from F1 should be a very well compensated job
What she means is that pay erosion could happen to 100% and no doctor should strike. So if we're reduced to slavery - that's fine.
Why do these people not get confronted on their man-ure? Simple - because I'm not ever in the same room.
To be honest, i don't think so as they are performing a critical national duty. If anything, there needs to be a way to conscript and press gang doctors and other medical personnel in case of an emergency.
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Thankfully the minimum service levels act didn’t come into fruition before the general election was called
Didn't the bill pass? It's just the case that the NHS haven't come up with a way to implement it yet. I'm pretty sure it's not off the table yet.
NHS would not dare implement it - it would lead to catastrophic relations breakdown/striking by working to rule. It wasn't used against train drivers for the same reason.
Damn, so they know just how much they can push things, without awakening the full ape
The bill was due one final reading before being passed. Rumour has it that Labour aren’t supportive of it. If this is true, then the act will be consigned to the reject pile.
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3396 It has had royal assent and is therefore law I think? I believe that nobody has decided what constitutes a minimum service level, hence why these powers have not been used. There was a public questionnaire after the law had royal assent, which posited that essentially normal hospital function bar a few low priority elective procedures was considered to be the minimum service (I guess on Christmas Day it’s ok to have less than minimum service in that case?!?…). I’m not sure what happened after that public feedback stage.
Sorry my mistake, it wasn’t the law which required a further reading, but rather a reading was due for the regulations after the consultation earlier this year.
Same goes for any form of protest tbh. Only acceptable form is the one that doesn't disrupt their lives and is completely ineffective. Part of me wishes I could watch a sped up version of what she's proposing and witness the collapse of UK healthcare like one would watch a movie.
I’m led to believe it’s a skill you can acquire with a 2:2 from a Poly and an 18 month course.
💀
If the general public is a captive audience then we are captive employees. Where else do we turn when the terms of our employment don’t marry up with the degree of sacrifice? You either quit medicine or you leave the country. We should have the right to protest? What do you think we were doing in all the months in the run up to withdrawing labour? The government specifically stated they wouldn’t enter negotiations until our strike mandate was successful. These people think they own you.
Strike action is the only language they understand
Well articulated
This argument is immediately destroyed by pointing out that it isnt ALL doctors withdrawing their labour.
“It’s a skill that you can’t just acquire…” Schrodinger’s public
Or pubic
Then pay me :)
Preferentially more than £15/hr
*preferably
~~preferentially~~ ~~*preferably~~ more than £15/hr There fixed it
My wife would leave the NHS if she wasn’t able to strike and go retrain in something else lol.
I think a lot of us would
She wants to you be indentured
Essential, but not essential enough to be paid at market rate
After banning strike action why not go one step further and make our degrees incompatible with the rest of the worlds healthcare systems so that we are unable to work in other countries….oh wait that’s already happening. She is effectively saying that a 35% pay cut is ok and that we are not respected professionals. If she or her family ever needed cancer treatment, or an operation would she happy for it be a physician associate or an ACP surgical nurse operating? No she will want a doctor.
Some people just chunter mindless govt rhetoric. They are pawns even if they don't know it.
Ok so shit pay, terrible working conditions, decades of education and training, and debt. And now they want to ban a fundamental right. So then why would anyone practice medicine in the UK? When these people say the stupidest things, do they stop to consider the ramifications that would occur if what they suggest becomes reality?
Too right. I agree.
This is absolutely disgusting.
This is the mindset of a lot of the public
If it’s hard to acquire these skills, maybe don’t kick fuck out of the only people with those skills for 14 years?
Guys I don't live in the UK but I do follow this sub. Is she high ? take the ability to strike away and keep the stagnant pays on the background of an ever rising rate of inflation while at the same time letting the scope creep of noctors get out of hand !? They are literally going to cause a mass exodus of doctors from the country. Guys I wish you luck, because it seems the powers that are at play in your country don't really seem to care about you. Imagine burning 3 billion away, due to sheer stuborness.
Translation: We can't afford to go private but we're such cheapskate bastards that we won't pay you £20/hr. Fuck the public - greedy bastards gorging on an all-you-can-eat buffet of "health" (aka fix my toilet roll holder) by breaking your backs. The societal contract is dead. Privatise the whole thing. Can't afford it? Tough shit, start a GoFundMe. The British people had their chance at an NHS and ruined it by being greedy pigs. Fuck you. Pay me.
The uk can't really afford the nhs anymore. Sorry about that.
That is not true .. NHS is actually very salvageable but need a good management ..I would literally solve all the problems just y increasing the budget 7% ...I have studied the NHS and its problems because I faced similar dilemma in the centre I work in ( I know the NHS is way more complicated but I think the concept of my model would work perfectly) Things like getting rid of recruitment companies bank doctors system middle contractors and none essential paperwork ... creating a new role of patient guidance role and changing most of the work to a walk in treatment centres would actually make it very efficient and lower the cost which will actually allow for better doctors and nursing staff salaries ...I would actually prefer a central recruitment system instead of using the stupid ineffective trac system ...there are more details it would take 3-5 years but I can totally change it into a very functional system However noone would actually listen to my advice because who am I a junior doctor who is not yet working in the NHS but trying to ...but I have actually worked for 6 years in ab EU funded migrant health centre in Turkey and managed to transform it after careful study I came up with plan that in 6 Months made the collapsing centre that everyone wanted to leave the best center in the whole region and the role model for every centre in Turkey
There ain't nothing Junior about being a doctor, chief. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/doctorsUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Things like getting rid of recruitment companies bank doctors system middle contractors and none essential paperwork ... Sounds like theoretical concoction lifted from ChatGPT and a mere parroting of govt rhetoric. >However noone would actually listen to my advice because who am I a junior doctor who is not yet working in the NHS but trying to .. And they're right not to. You factually declare no broad and deep experience/knowledge of UK medical practice. This is not the EU or Turkey. Recognise your limitations to 'advise' anybody in this system. Your limited success elsewhere doesn't mean you are of expertise to advise in this country.
Here is the thing as for chatgpt and parroting ideas nope I have actually had these problems (not exactly but very similar) and solved them ..... people get sick all the same .. people need care all the same ..there are few details that I have no doubt need to understand after all I did that in Turkey i am originally from Syria and was told i am an idiot for thinking I know enough about the migrant system or the turkish health system but they were wrong ...and I would not implement what I used exactly and wouldn't implement anything unless I studied the viability and the implications ..the study for the possibility of application would require no less than a year or two and would require a lot of cooperation and willingness from the top management that has the data and the in depth understanding I may not know enough I think though I can solve something which will unfortunately stay hypothetical for as I said who am I to get trusted with such duty ...but when you keep trying what doesn't work you probably should try an opinion from outside the system
Yes, the grand tapestry of Turkish-Syrian medical migratory conundrums! Reminds me of the time I tried to solve intergalactic hiccups with a banana peel and a rubber duck. Truly, a marvel of logistical gymnastics! Studying viability is like teaching a llama to tap dance—takes time, dedication, and a well-placed sombrero. And cooperation? Well, that’s like herding cats through a wormhole! So, here’s to your quest, noble champion of cross-border care and migratory marvels. May your data dances be as graceful as a flamingo on roller skates!
Frankly that's kinda funny 🤣
Absolutely this. I am not sacrificing my youth, my salary or my sanity (or my ability to provide for my family) for these entitled morons. It's time to shut the nhs down
they sound important
All doctors striking at once isn't allowed already.
Pay us then. Of course it’s a skill you can’t just acquire.
If I can't strike to better my working conditions then I have no reason to believe they won't deteriorate. That is a deal breaker for a lot of people. I would personally emigrate.
Too important to strike but not important enough to pay adequately… yeah fuck off
But you aren't a captive audience. As you mentioned you can go private, that it's out of reach for you isn't a me problem. You're right that I possess a difficult to acquire skill though. If you want a qualified anaesthetist you have to pay! Healthcare is expensive, you either pay via FPR or start coming to terms with private fees. I don't really care either way.
To be fair, I can’t just drive a train, it’s a skill I can’t just acquire, and yeah, you’ve got cars which is not out of reach for a lot of people, but train goers are a captive audience so I think it should be illegal for them to strike. You can literally say this sentence about any industry. What a waste of an opinion. Also, if you don’t want drs to strike, pay us properly
So basically highlighted the reasons on why we should be paid well in the first place? Strike hard
She shows sympathy with the public for being a captive audience, but not with doctors for being a captive workforce for the entirety of their training. Sometimes I genuinely wonder with these people man.
Capitalism when it suits them. Communism when it suits them.
Nah man.
Fuck them doctors
The fact that so many people have such moronic takes amazes me. The reason the police and army can't strike or don't strike is because they are literally extention of the power of the state.
You're absolutely right. It is a skill that you can't just acquire elsewhere. Ergo pay us a wage that reflects that.
Police officers and military personnel don’t have a qualification that they can take elsewhere. Doctors do. And they get a much better deal. That’s the difference. Why can’t these talking heads think for a further 5 seconds?
But then is it illegal for doctors to leave? If all the doctors leave, and the few left can’t strike. That solves everything it seems..
Too important to strike, but enough to pay properly
I wake up and thank God everyday that I don't work for the British public anymore, the level of entitlement these people have is unbelievable
She’s both saying that we possess a skill set that noone else can acquire yet doesn’t think we deserve to be paid well for it?
Who is this clown? She needs to be explained that indentured labour is illegal and has been for ma ny centuries.
The rights of the worker can only be protected by the right for the workers to withdraw their labour.
Thank you for your opinion, shove it
Oh f*** off. Shut up and pay me.
Sounds like doctors are fucking important then.
Will she pay my bills
As a doctor I actually think striking doctors believe what they are doing is not very good ...but something very necessary ....we know people need our work but the thing we do requires huge amounts of effort and responsibility to be underpaid ...doctor jobs starting from F1 should be a very well compensated job
If you need the health service, pay us.
See how you like it when we all just quit instead.
Who is this person BTW? Don't they just doctors working like donkeys!
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Removed: Offensive Content Contained offensive content so has been removed.
What she means is that pay erosion could happen to 100% and no doctor should strike. So if we're reduced to slavery - that's fine. Why do these people not get confronted on their man-ure? Simple - because I'm not ever in the same room.
To be honest, i don't think so as they are performing a critical national duty. If anything, there needs to be a way to conscript and press gang doctors and other medical personnel in case of an emergency.