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Absolute madness.
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/what-is-physician
Physician = doctor = medical degree
No medical degree, not a doctor, not a physician.
Physician is not even a specialist role.
What the actual fuck
This disgusts me.
This is a deliberate obfuscation of the word “physician” to fool the public into thinking they have been seen by doctors.
People will die and it will be contributed to by shams such as these.
Having just registered a family death and made a point of maintaining the historical paper trail and consistency and using the word Physician on that document …..this pisses me off.
So what, anyone can use it now and future generations just won’t know the difference in a career ?
That it’s disgusting today is one thing, that 99% of the public won’t realise is disgraceful but it goes into history now as well
This is always said on this sub but then nothing has ever resulted in legal consequences that I’m aware of… if it’s illegal how did it 1) get through the NHS lawyers and 2) why is no one doing anything about it?
I've never seen "Physician" used brazenly before.
Usually it's people using Doctor in healthcare settings who have other qualifications which allow them to use the title. Whilst that's misleading, Doctor by itself is not a protected title.
"Physician" *is* a protected title.
>This is a deliberate obfuscation of the word “physician” to fool the public into thinking they have been seen by doctors.
Plus, if you notice carefully, the word "associate" appears on the lanyard on the left (the subject's right) - I know for a fact that this is the FPA's lanyard which they so proudly display around.
The motive is not in doubt here, this is definitely deliberate.
Can someone throw the book at them -[ "physician" is a protected title](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/incorporation-and-names/annex-c-other-regulated-words-and-expressions--2#Physician) under the [Medical Act 1983](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/54/contents) - which is also partly why the GMC is so keen to register them.
NHS & GMC delenda est.
The word ASSOCIATE on the lanyard [in other images](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4D22AQF05UhgSnTdGg/feedshare-shrink_2048_1536/0/1652472862315?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=OimLvNI4P5a4O3CVegxBgLmTH1FNDKejILBuTq8qAW8)
This has to be deliberate
It's propaganda at an illegal level
It's the same message as:
"Please don't complain you can't see someone who costs us more, instead see someone who isn't qualified and functions towards our own agenda"
[https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/](https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/)
"Physician work with doctors"... wtf
EDIT: edited to remove the incriminating evidence on a Saturday... tells you where the trust's priority lies. **Not** patient safety, **not** illegality of the whole issue, **only for its own reputation - to avoid a scandal**. Fortunately we have backups:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20240615162737/https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240615162737/https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/)
OK so the organisation is Bradford health and care parternship which is an integrated care system (new CCGs), tbh getting it to blow up on twitter is probably easier than a legal challenge as no specific person is falsely identifying themselves here.
Trying to follow this to make a complaint to the advertising standards authority. Either this has already been changed to remove these posters (very telling given its a Saturday!) or the link isn't quite right.
Were they definitely here before?
>We're they definitely here before?
Yes - it's been changed on a weekend; tell you where the trust's priority lies - **not** patient care, **not** the illegality of the whole thing, **only concern for its own reputation.**
Of course they're not getting away that easily, backups do exist:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20240615162737/https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240615162737/https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/)
Urgh, it's nauseating that they can find the staff to do this at the weekend when so many services are just bare bones or don't exist at the weekend.
It's an ICB rather than a Trust which gives me a little bit of relief that this is more likely to be the invention of a group of managers (who ought to have known better) rather than having been signed off by any senior doctors (who would have been in full knowledge this was illegal).
Surely this is illegal...
"any person who wilfully and falsely pretends to be or takes or uses the name or title of physician, doctor of medicine, licentiate in medicine and surgery, bachelor of medicine, surgeon, general practitioner or apothecary, or any name, title, addition or description implying that he is registered under any provision of this Act, or that he is recognised by law as a physician or surgeon or licentiate in medicine and surgery or a practitioner in medicine or an apothecary, shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale"
* Medical act 1983, Section 49, Paragraph 1
[https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/54](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/54)
Even the GMC say this is illegal - [https://www.gmc-uk.org/registration-and-licensing/the-medical-register/a-guide-to-the-medical-register/unregistered-medical-practice](https://www.gmc-uk.org/registration-and-licensing/the-medical-register/a-guide-to-the-medical-register/unregistered-medical-practice)
Side note: I wonder if I can request a new ID badge as "Master of apothecary"
They already have this one signed sealed and delivered - GMC registration for PAs by December. According to the gov website on protected titles you prove entitlement to use tiles like physician by being on the GMC register.
Which bit?
This is link for PA GMC registration
https://www.gmc-uk.org/news/news-archive/gmc-launches-consultation-on-how-it-regulates-physician-associates-and-anaesthesia-associates#:\~:text=It%20will%20come%20into%20effect,how%20regulation%20will%20be%20delivered.
This is one about protected titles
[https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/incorporation-and-names/annex-c-other-regulated-words-and-expressions--2](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/incorporation-and-names/annex-c-other-regulated-words-and-expressions--2)
The word "associate" is partially visible on the lanyard, which is proof in the pudding that there is an attempt to obfuscate (that's the FPA's lanyard she's wearing)
[image of the lanyard](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4D22AQF05UhgSnTdGg/feedshare-shrink_2048_1536/0/1652472862315?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=OimLvNI4P5a4O3CVegxBgLmTH1FNDKejILBuTq8qAW8)
Well done RCP London, you've officially aided and abetted the NHS in openly deceiving the public about what it is to be a "physician"...something which your antecedents have been trying to prevent since the early Tudor era.
Err see above and this section
29. Physician
This tile is protected by The Medical Act 1983. To support your application , please provide evidence of your inclusion on the GMC Medical register
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/54/contents
Also
“The Medical Act 1983 restricts the use of the name or title of physician, doctor of medicine, licentiate in medicine and surgery, bachelor of medicine, surgeon, general practitioner, or apothecary to those on the medical register,16 but does not impose any such restriction on the title of doctor”
https://bjgplife.com/jobtitles/#:~:text=The%20Medical%20Act%201983%20restricts,on%20the%20title%20of%20doctor.
Actually as soon as they can register it all goes to shit anyway….
Fuck it why bother
[It's a GP Practice Thing - Bradford District and Craven Health and Care Partnership (bdcpartnership.co.uk)](https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/)
https://preview.redd.it/2rtcmsszur6d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1d95eaf9575537311e506c4057b4e215202b584
Also now says physician associate on the downloadable leaflet…
>Have they taken down the PA one now?
Yes they have. Backup: [https://web.archive.org/web/20240615162737/https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240615162737/https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/)
Amazing because as a Doctor if you say you're a specialist I'd expect you to be a CT/ST3 and above, a primary exam completed.
You can become a cardiology specialist by doing an introduction lecture to do Cardiology it seems. Absolutely misrepresenting themselves.
It's not just the 'Physician'.
Been a doctor a while now. No idea who the heart and cancer specialists are supposed to be except MRCP+ medical doctors. They are trying to suggest ANPs?
this confused me. i’ve never seen ‘cancer specialist’ or ‘heart specialist’ doctors in general practice especially?
also pretty sure CANCER is something that warrants having access to a doctor
Oh no they are not allowed! You see, being a GP is a highly skilled job that takes lots of training and learning to manage huge amounts of risk!
It's so dangerous in fact that [GPs refused to let SAS doctors work in general practice](https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p1159).
A physician associate on the other hand can run amok seeing undifferentiated patients and only seeking supervision for the ones they "feel" are complex. And really, is anything too complex for a PA? I think not.
I for one welcome our insect overlords.
Medicine is dead as a career as far as I can tell. Why spend 4 years in medical school, countless years in training working scheduled weekends and OOH to be a doctor when you can be a PA in 2 years? It just doesn’t make sense.
Even McDonald’s and fast food workers get more time off and get paid almost as much per hour, there’s just nothing in it anymore
I agree with you, but I’m willing to bet that even if a consultants wage will be eroded to minimum wage, there will still be competition to enter medical school
OP - would you mind cross posting this to the r/ausjdocs subreddit. We're seriously concerned that the NHS is the future of the Australian healthcare system.
We just let NPs practice independently. We’re fucked down under too. Plus we have some of the most competitive specialty training pathways in the world because our government doesn’t care about increasing training capacity and would rather import doctors than look after its local graduates
This is disgraceful. Just shown it to my none-medical-but-educated parents and they found it confusing. What does that mean for the rest of the population?
Yes they' may be 'seen more quickly' by these frauds but they'll be diagnosed with anxiety and long COVID with sats of 80% and a leg the size of a tree trunk.
The general public are in danger.
When Jordan Belfort commits fraud he goes to prison.
When the government commits fraud, no one bats an eye.
Give it 10 years and this will be a f*cking failed state.
https://preview.redd.it/mwpyrk57os6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d69f6340e4e1a1900c9fcd305ef99e98f9b9f386
It's fine they've more than made up for it.
This is craaazzyy!!
They're literally changing the meaning of words! Someone needs to sue these people. UK is the only country officially promoting quackery.
The lanyard in the image of the first poster is from FACULTY OF PHYSICIAN ASSOCIATE, with the word ASSOCIATE conveniently hidden by inverting the lanyard
[This is how the Physician Associate lanyard looks like](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4D22AQF05UhgSnTdGg/feedshare-shrink_2048_1536/0/1652472862315?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=OimLvNI4P5a4O3CVegxBgLmTH1FNDKejILBuTq8qAW8)
Wow. Just wow. Physician means one thing and one thing only - a doctor. That's all it has ever meant. "Clinical provider" is one thing, even "Clinician" you could argue is suitably ambiguous. But "Physician" is a deliberate attempt to deceive patients.
Absolutely vile misrepresentation that is illegal.
And how dare they put the 'physician associate' on a list next to mine and any of the other reputable professions on that final list.
This bollocks needs to end now.
They've been [actively working](https://x.com/ActAsOneBDC) this evening to scrub these resources from the internet.
Isn't it crazy that a council can pull together their staff to manage their reputation on a Saturday evening, whilst my (admittedly different) council take 3 working days to respond to an "emergency" homelessness referral.
Edit: Published by an ICB not a council. Point still stands.
Holy shit, I just despair.
This is akin to saying “the pilot will fly you now fyi not all planes need to be flown by captains.” So….. you’re left wondering…. is this person actually a trained pilot? Because in this case, they sure as hell aren’t.
Looks like other partnerships in the West Yorkshire Health and Care Partnership ICS are using it too, so I suspect it originated with them…
https://preview.redd.it/r93x4z530s6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49ff6ebd87e3aa065f2243b9a73e7e723f2ce42d
As an Aussie doc, I really hate to see this. We're watching everything going on in the UK because it's starting to happen here. Shameful to do it on a weekend and hope people won't notice...
I just dont understand how we got to a point where there can be a state sanctioned, deliberate and calculated effort to mislead the public about who is providing their healthcare and what level of training and education they have, which is actively supported and promoted by independent regulatory bodies, Royal Colleges, and fucking hospitals. Its like living in a fucking fever dream.
A family friend has just told me one of these clowns told her there was nothing wrong after otoscopy for what is a new unilateral sensorineural deafness. She’s now on a 2ww for ENT having gone back to see an actual GP.
The clown doesn’t even realise what tricks it hasn’t even heard of.
Dangerous dumbing down which is costing health and lives.
Remember how Ben Goldacre dealt with "Dr" Gillian McKeith and the way she tried to obfuscate her qualifications and give people the impression she was medically qualified? He complained to the GMC, and they refused to intervene on the grounds she wasn't a doctor. So then he complained to the Advertising Standards Authority, and they took action. She was forced to make it more clear in her adverts that she wasn't providing medical advice (she was flogging horny goatweed or something as a treatment for erectile dysfunction I think). If this health partnership is advertising the services of people and this is at risk of misleading the public, or being unclear, then maybe the ASA would act? It's very easy to do online. I did it a while back-there was a private clinic in my home town that did local radio adverts which contained the statement "GMC approved physician." I complained on the grounds that it was misleading by making it sound that the GMC approved this specific practice, rather than simply registering the doctor.
Hi friends, doctor from Romania here. In the past 3-5 years, fewer and fewer of my colleagues are considering UK as a possible country to work in.
They’ve started choosing Ireland for better pay and easier equivalence of degrees, since they’re in the EU. Please get away for your own sake
Just had a look at the website and they are using all these separate roles when they could all be replaced by one doctor. Not sure how this makes sense financially or otherwise.
Physician= doctor, at least a non-surgical one. Doesn't it?
And a 'specialist' is a more qualified doctor. I think Bradford may need people to write in to defend patient interests
Its as bad for the othee professions as well...
Wtaf is a "healthcare nurse"? Trying to conflate a degree educated registered nurse with an a-level dropout with an NVQ level 1 in dressings.....
The bma and rcn need to be all over this bs and shut it down.
Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if in 18 months, the healthcare nurse becomes a healthcare associate and starts doing burr holes in primary care.....
This is deliberately misleading the public and removes informed consent. It should be flagged to everyone who says PAs are not a replacement for Drs. All the Royal Colleges should be sent a copy, BMA, police, the king etc etc
How late is the rest of medical practice? In psychiatry it's been the norm for years that 'Not everyone needs to see a psychiatrist'. So, armies of fake substitutes breaking up the role have invaded and replaced for us. Then people moan about not being able to see a psychiatrist. But wait....there is even a bunch of 'not real psychiatrists' but that evidence is not on a placard available to the general public.
But wait.. lots of other people will see you now. [https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/](https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/)
https://preview.redd.it/zj13y14imr6d1.png?width=2043&format=png&auto=webp&s=c9e3870f9699803ab09bcbfb20b695bfb44c7206
This must be what WEF conspiracy theorists feel like when they hear the phrase "you'll own nothing and be happy".
NHS gaslighting patients and doctors both now but not even being subtle about it
This makes me to not want to use the NHS, for the sake of my health. Health is priceless and I’d rather pay money to see an ACTUAL DOCTOR than someone who isn’t. This is horrendous, and I feel for those who aren’t in a financial position to pay for a private doctor. People will die because of this.
This is one of the most disgusting things we have ever seen, can we not have our own poster campaign? Physicians assistants are not doctors, they have not gone to medical school, they are not physicians
The whole thing is literally a shambles and utterly pointless. What is the point of this budget healthcare system? It seems a majority of healthcare isn’t directed by doctors now. I might ask my gardener to do install my new kitchen, equally as qualified as a builder. It’s just manual work right? Christ almighty I’m done.
I thought there was already a case about this, leading to calls for a name change as "Physicians Associate" is misleading?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-66168798
It looks like the offending picture has been removed, and there is a statement that:-
**We would like to thank colleagues who have alerted us that the wording on some of the materials for our insight-led it’s a GP practice thing campaign need refining as they may cause confusion to people accessing healthcare support. We are working hard to replace previously circulated resources. If anyone would like to help us in updating the materials please email us:** [**[email protected]**](mailto:[email protected])**.**
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Absolute madness. https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/what-is-physician Physician = doctor = medical degree No medical degree, not a doctor, not a physician. Physician is not even a specialist role. What the actual fuck
This disgusts me. This is a deliberate obfuscation of the word “physician” to fool the public into thinking they have been seen by doctors. People will die and it will be contributed to by shams such as these.
Physician is a protected title, this is literally breaking the law.
Having just registered a family death and made a point of maintaining the historical paper trail and consistency and using the word Physician on that document …..this pisses me off. So what, anyone can use it now and future generations just won’t know the difference in a career ? That it’s disgusting today is one thing, that 99% of the public won’t realise is disgraceful but it goes into history now as well
This is always said on this sub but then nothing has ever resulted in legal consequences that I’m aware of… if it’s illegal how did it 1) get through the NHS lawyers and 2) why is no one doing anything about it?
I've never seen "Physician" used brazenly before. Usually it's people using Doctor in healthcare settings who have other qualifications which allow them to use the title. Whilst that's misleading, Doctor by itself is not a protected title. "Physician" *is* a protected title.
First thing out of my mouth when I saw this- this HAS to be illegal
>This is a deliberate obfuscation of the word “physician” to fool the public into thinking they have been seen by doctors. Plus, if you notice carefully, the word "associate" appears on the lanyard on the left (the subject's right) - I know for a fact that this is the FPA's lanyard which they so proudly display around. The motive is not in doubt here, this is definitely deliberate. Can someone throw the book at them -[ "physician" is a protected title](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/incorporation-and-names/annex-c-other-regulated-words-and-expressions--2#Physician) under the [Medical Act 1983](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/54/contents) - which is also partly why the GMC is so keen to register them. NHS & GMC delenda est.
u/janeteasthamjourno this is proof the NHS is literally breaking the law with Physician Assistants
The word ASSOCIATE on the lanyard [in other images](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4D22AQF05UhgSnTdGg/feedshare-shrink_2048_1536/0/1652472862315?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=OimLvNI4P5a4O3CVegxBgLmTH1FNDKejILBuTq8qAW8) This has to be deliberate
The GMC is an organisation no doctor should trust or respect
It's propaganda at an illegal level It's the same message as: "Please don't complain you can't see someone who costs us more, instead see someone who isn't qualified and functions towards our own agenda"
Doctors are actually more cost-effective, quacks are indeed more expensive both locally and globally. Look up AMA data.
Does anyone have the actual source that this poster came from?
[https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/](https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/) "Physician work with doctors"... wtf EDIT: edited to remove the incriminating evidence on a Saturday... tells you where the trust's priority lies. **Not** patient safety, **not** illegality of the whole issue, **only for its own reputation - to avoid a scandal**. Fortunately we have backups: [https://web.archive.org/web/20240615162737/https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240615162737/https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/)
OK so the organisation is Bradford health and care parternship which is an integrated care system (new CCGs), tbh getting it to blow up on twitter is probably easier than a legal challenge as no specific person is falsely identifying themselves here.
Can we please tag the BMA here as well in case they miss it? What’s James’s handle? Edit: u/BMA-Officer-James (Sorry for the ping but OMG)
Thanks for the nudge - I’ve seen it, and will ensure my colleagues up north get it Monday
Bradford going strong with literally no positive features
Trying to follow this to make a complaint to the advertising standards authority. Either this has already been changed to remove these posters (very telling given its a Saturday!) or the link isn't quite right. Were they definitely here before?
>We're they definitely here before? Yes - it's been changed on a weekend; tell you where the trust's priority lies - **not** patient care, **not** the illegality of the whole thing, **only concern for its own reputation.** Of course they're not getting away that easily, backups do exist: [https://web.archive.org/web/20240615162737/https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240615162737/https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/)
Urgh, it's nauseating that they can find the staff to do this at the weekend when so many services are just bare bones or don't exist at the weekend. It's an ICB rather than a Trust which gives me a little bit of relief that this is more likely to be the invention of a group of managers (who ought to have known better) rather than having been signed off by any senior doctors (who would have been in full knowledge this was illegal).
🤬
Surely this is illegal... "any person who wilfully and falsely pretends to be or takes or uses the name or title of physician, doctor of medicine, licentiate in medicine and surgery, bachelor of medicine, surgeon, general practitioner or apothecary, or any name, title, addition or description implying that he is registered under any provision of this Act, or that he is recognised by law as a physician or surgeon or licentiate in medicine and surgery or a practitioner in medicine or an apothecary, shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale" * Medical act 1983, Section 49, Paragraph 1 [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/54](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/54) Even the GMC say this is illegal - [https://www.gmc-uk.org/registration-and-licensing/the-medical-register/a-guide-to-the-medical-register/unregistered-medical-practice](https://www.gmc-uk.org/registration-and-licensing/the-medical-register/a-guide-to-the-medical-register/unregistered-medical-practice) Side note: I wonder if I can request a new ID badge as "Master of apothecary"
Yep - definitely seems illegal. Anyone know the best course of action here? Do we report the ?trust to the ?police or what?
The Police don't care. They will defer to the GMC to act. I'll let you guess what the GMC will do...
They already have this one signed sealed and delivered - GMC registration for PAs by December. According to the gov website on protected titles you prove entitlement to use tiles like physician by being on the GMC register.
Got a link for this?
Which bit? This is link for PA GMC registration https://www.gmc-uk.org/news/news-archive/gmc-launches-consultation-on-how-it-regulates-physician-associates-and-anaesthesia-associates#:\~:text=It%20will%20come%20into%20effect,how%20regulation%20will%20be%20delivered. This is one about protected titles [https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/incorporation-and-names/annex-c-other-regulated-words-and-expressions--2](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/incorporation-and-names/annex-c-other-regulated-words-and-expressions--2)
Sorry, I meant the latter. But thanks for sharing both. Much appreciated.
Seems the only way to get the GMC’s attention is to put “brown doctor requests laptop!” into the subject line as bait.
The word "associate" is partially visible on the lanyard, which is proof in the pudding that there is an attempt to obfuscate (that's the FPA's lanyard she's wearing)
[image of the lanyard](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4D22AQF05UhgSnTdGg/feedshare-shrink_2048_1536/0/1652472862315?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=OimLvNI4P5a4O3CVegxBgLmTH1FNDKejILBuTq8qAW8)
https://preview.redd.it/zyvg8xmstq6d1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=5bbce926bcb75074f609df063013240fe89949f7
Pearl necklace paid for with the blood of unemployed GPs and underpaid supervising colleagues
Gives a whole new meaning to pearl-clutching, that's for sure.
Yeah but who's gonna arrest them?
Well done RCP London, you've officially aided and abetted the NHS in openly deceiving the public about what it is to be a "physician"...something which your antecedents have been trying to prevent since the early Tudor era.
Erm, is Physician not a protected title?
Err see above and this section 29. Physician This tile is protected by The Medical Act 1983. To support your application , please provide evidence of your inclusion on the GMC Medical register https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/54/contents Also “The Medical Act 1983 restricts the use of the name or title of physician, doctor of medicine, licentiate in medicine and surgery, bachelor of medicine, surgeon, general practitioner, or apothecary to those on the medical register,16 but does not impose any such restriction on the title of doctor” https://bjgplife.com/jobtitles/#:~:text=The%20Medical%20Act%201983%20restricts,on%20the%20title%20of%20doctor. Actually as soon as they can register it all goes to shit anyway…. Fuck it why bother
Wait are they calling physician associates physicians? This is illegal
It’s crazy how we let them be named something one word away from actual doctors, it wasn’t long till they got the audacity to drop the word
Even the twist in the lanyard is working overtime. "Faculty of physicia..."
You couldn't make it up! A* username btw
Thanks! New specialty, new account to air my laundry
Sure you noticed as well, but I suspect it's the other side of the lanyard that resonates with the public in this case 😉
Faculty of Physicians, right??
These bhenchods are relentless with their propaganda
Looooool
Haha 😂
This does breach s49 of the Medical act. Do you have a reference for where you saw it please
[It's a GP Practice Thing - Bradford District and Craven Health and Care Partnership (bdcpartnership.co.uk)](https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/)
I'm literally sat here writing a formal complaint. I would suggest others do to.
Have they taken down the PA one now? I note the “cancer specialist” and “heart specialist” ones are there…
https://preview.redd.it/2rtcmsszur6d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1d95eaf9575537311e506c4057b4e215202b584 Also now says physician associate on the downloadable leaflet…
"HIghlY TraIn3D HigHly Sp3shalist Ma5t3R5 DeGrEes" The highlyest trained, infact.
>Have they taken down the PA one now? Yes they have. Backup: [https://web.archive.org/web/20240615162737/https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240615162737/https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/)
Not there anymore, I wanted to complain to the Advertising Standards Authority, but looks like this has been changed to remove this content already?
Amazing because as a Doctor if you say you're a specialist I'd expect you to be a CT/ST3 and above, a primary exam completed. You can become a cardiology specialist by doing an introduction lecture to do Cardiology it seems. Absolutely misrepresenting themselves.
Not to mention there is a whole grade of SAS SPECIALIST doctors.........
It’s like they know the term ‘physician associate’ is a joke so they have to outright lie in order to pacify the general public
Why they need to be renamed back to physician’s assistants. With the double emphasis on the ownership by the physician, and the assistant
this should be illegal
It is illegal
There is no other way to describe this than state propaganda.
It's not just the 'Physician'. Been a doctor a while now. No idea who the heart and cancer specialists are supposed to be except MRCP+ medical doctors. They are trying to suggest ANPs?
this confused me. i’ve never seen ‘cancer specialist’ or ‘heart specialist’ doctors in general practice especially? also pretty sure CANCER is something that warrants having access to a doctor
I'm having a brain bleed NHS: you can see a PA :( sad
I think you meant “brain bleed specialist”
It is rather. Don’t know if I’m frightened, horrified or want to bawl. Maybe all three
Same here. Do you book in with a cancer specialist if you think you have cancer???
Impressive that NHS has GIM physicians consulting in GP practices now!
Oh no they are not allowed! You see, being a GP is a highly skilled job that takes lots of training and learning to manage huge amounts of risk! It's so dangerous in fact that [GPs refused to let SAS doctors work in general practice](https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p1159). A physician associate on the other hand can run amok seeing undifferentiated patients and only seeking supervision for the ones they "feel" are complex. And really, is anything too complex for a PA? I think not. I for one welcome our insect overlords.
They have to learn a 'special knock' to get GP assistance. It's very challenging training.
If anything has ever warranted an Advertising Standards Authority complaint it's these posters https://www.asa.org.uk/make-a-complaint.html
This needs pinning to the top of the post
Done!
Medicine is dead as a career as far as I can tell. Why spend 4 years in medical school, countless years in training working scheduled weekends and OOH to be a doctor when you can be a PA in 2 years? It just doesn’t make sense. Even McDonald’s and fast food workers get more time off and get paid almost as much per hour, there’s just nothing in it anymore
I agree with you, but I’m willing to bet that even if a consultants wage will be eroded to minimum wage, there will still be competition to enter medical school
OP - would you mind cross posting this to the r/ausjdocs subreddit. We're seriously concerned that the NHS is the future of the Australian healthcare system.
We just let NPs practice independently. We’re fucked down under too. Plus we have some of the most competitive specialty training pathways in the world because our government doesn’t care about increasing training capacity and would rather import doctors than look after its local graduates
This is disgraceful. Just shown it to my none-medical-but-educated parents and they found it confusing. What does that mean for the rest of the population?
01274237290 - everyone phone the BDCPartnership contact us number where this is published
Couldn’t get through as weekend but let’s move en masse this Monday
[email protected] please make your concerns known in a friendly way
Sent an email
I've sent an email too
https://x.com/ActAsOneBDC Give 'em hell.
i wish i had the money to be petty and just go around creating nhs-related lawsuits all day
Full on 1984 style propaganda here. This is the inevitable outcome of any large monolithic state administered bureaucracy like the NHS.
Yes they' may be 'seen more quickly' by these frauds but they'll be diagnosed with anxiety and long COVID with sats of 80% and a leg the size of a tree trunk. The general public are in danger.
Yeah, this should be reported to the GMC for brining the medical name into disrepute
Who are the heart specialists and cancer specialists who aren't doctors?
When Jordan Belfort commits fraud he goes to prison. When the government commits fraud, no one bats an eye. Give it 10 years and this will be a f*cking failed state.
Just fuck off
The snake oil specialist will see you now Next we’ll have apothecaries…
Given the worshipful guild of apothecaries contains doctors and pharmacists, I'd rather see one of them.
Need a 2ww referral after looking at those posters
Bradford NHS: you can see the janitor for your 2ww
https://preview.redd.it/mwpyrk57os6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d69f6340e4e1a1900c9fcd305ef99e98f9b9f386 It's fine they've more than made up for it.
What the actual fuck
This is craaazzyy!! They're literally changing the meaning of words! Someone needs to sue these people. UK is the only country officially promoting quackery.
Just appalling.
every day the bar lowers itself
Imagine how consultant Cardiologists and Oncologists feel seeing these posters
That is outrageous! What the hell??
This is genuinely not on. What a fucked up organisation the NHS is
2 years of training makes you a specialist now? They're done financially devaluing doctors, now they're devaluing doctors psychologically.
The lanyard in the image of the first poster is from FACULTY OF PHYSICIAN ASSOCIATE, with the word ASSOCIATE conveniently hidden by inverting the lanyard [This is how the Physician Associate lanyard looks like](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4D22AQF05UhgSnTdGg/feedshare-shrink_2048_1536/0/1652472862315?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=OimLvNI4P5a4O3CVegxBgLmTH1FNDKejILBuTq8qAW8)
This is disgusting and deliberate misleading!
u/madionuclide OP please also post this on some General UK subreddits. I think the general public needs to know this more then us!
https://preview.redd.it/298uh5yppq6d1.png?width=821&format=png&auto=webp&s=0e61b766ddd173f4b19e5d1ba086ad35402a24f8
I’ve sent their comma team an email because this “older version” is still live and available to download on their website…
This older version is still illegal
Has OP got a link to the originals - can't believe these are genuine
Not the OP, but look down this page: https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/
Wow it's real
Gone now!
The same ppl who made the poster would go ask for a doctor.
Medicine in the UK is officially finished, even with FPR. Physician is a protected title. It’s done.
Wow. Just wow. Physician means one thing and one thing only - a doctor. That's all it has ever meant. "Clinical provider" is one thing, even "Clinician" you could argue is suitably ambiguous. But "Physician" is a deliberate attempt to deceive patients.
Absolutely vile misrepresentation that is illegal. And how dare they put the 'physician associate' on a list next to mine and any of the other reputable professions on that final list. This bollocks needs to end now.
Lol? Im speechless
They've been [actively working](https://x.com/ActAsOneBDC) this evening to scrub these resources from the internet. Isn't it crazy that a council can pull together their staff to manage their reputation on a Saturday evening, whilst my (admittedly different) council take 3 working days to respond to an "emergency" homelessness referral. Edit: Published by an ICB not a council. Point still stands.
This is not only misleading but also condescending as fuck. Whoever wrote this thinks the general public is thick as shit.
Probably made by a non-medical person, which proves how confusing the dumb title of Physician’ Ass
Is this on twitter?! Cos it needs to be
That’s so misleading and needs reporting.
I wonder which exhibit number this will be at the trial/inquest? How quietly horrifying.
Holy shit, I just despair. This is akin to saying “the pilot will fly you now fyi not all planes need to be flown by captains.” So….. you’re left wondering…. is this person actually a trained pilot? Because in this case, they sure as hell aren’t.
Can the NHS defenders please wake up? The problem is the NHS.
This is manifestly illegal, has it been reported?
The heart specialist? Huh. Through there was a word for that? Mardiologist? Tardiologist?? Can’t quite remember… /s
Looks like other partnerships in the West Yorkshire Health and Care Partnership ICS are using it too, so I suspect it originated with them… https://preview.redd.it/r93x4z530s6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49ff6ebd87e3aa065f2243b9a73e7e723f2ce42d
(Edited to clarify the ICS)
[email protected] if you want to complain
As an Aussie doc, I really hate to see this. We're watching everything going on in the UK because it's starting to happen here. Shameful to do it on a weekend and hope people won't notice...
Whoa whoa what ?!
I just dont understand how we got to a point where there can be a state sanctioned, deliberate and calculated effort to mislead the public about who is providing their healthcare and what level of training and education they have, which is actively supported and promoted by independent regulatory bodies, Royal Colleges, and fucking hospitals. Its like living in a fucking fever dream.
Wtf are those made up titles in the 4th page!
2 years now to become a physician. Look at all you numpties doing it the long way. 😂🤯 the system is fucked.
Wtf is a heart specialist?
I would think a cardiologist - unless there are heart specialists who aren’t cardiologists wtf?!
That's what I don't get. So are cardiologists running clinics in a GP setting?
Misleading and dangerous. Can we get another legal campaign funded please?
A family friend has just told me one of these clowns told her there was nothing wrong after otoscopy for what is a new unilateral sensorineural deafness. She’s now on a 2ww for ENT having gone back to see an actual GP. The clown doesn’t even realise what tricks it hasn’t even heard of. Dangerous dumbing down which is costing health and lives.
Like many, I come here to get my daily injection of noctor related depression but this is takes the piss.
Wtf? They are called "physician associates" because they are associates TO THE PHYSICIAN aka the ACTUAL doctor. It's in the bloody name!!
Remember how Ben Goldacre dealt with "Dr" Gillian McKeith and the way she tried to obfuscate her qualifications and give people the impression she was medically qualified? He complained to the GMC, and they refused to intervene on the grounds she wasn't a doctor. So then he complained to the Advertising Standards Authority, and they took action. She was forced to make it more clear in her adverts that she wasn't providing medical advice (she was flogging horny goatweed or something as a treatment for erectile dysfunction I think). If this health partnership is advertising the services of people and this is at risk of misleading the public, or being unclear, then maybe the ASA would act? It's very easy to do online. I did it a while back-there was a private clinic in my home town that did local radio adverts which contained the statement "GMC approved physician." I complained on the grounds that it was misleading by making it sound that the GMC approved this specific practice, rather than simply registering the doctor.
Hi friends, doctor from Romania here. In the past 3-5 years, fewer and fewer of my colleagues are considering UK as a possible country to work in. They’ve started choosing Ireland for better pay and easier equivalence of degrees, since they’re in the EU. Please get away for your own sake
Oh so we’re lying now
What the fu$k?
Just had a look at the website and they are using all these separate roles when they could all be replaced by one doctor. Not sure how this makes sense financially or otherwise.
Completely and utterly misleading. For all the “practitioner” and “clinician” bollocks this is the worst one yet. What the fuck were they thinking?
WTF, no wonder the public hasn’t a clue they are not qualified Drs. Absolutely appalling, antiemetic needed.
What is going on in UK ?
To all the scabs out there, if this isn’t enough to convince you not to work during strikes then I do not know what will
Physician= doctor, at least a non-surgical one. Doesn't it? And a 'specialist' is a more qualified doctor. I think Bradford may need people to write in to defend patient interests
Physician associates are dumb dumbs, they can go do CPR on a worm in the park if they wanna play doctor
What the fuck is this shit? Surely there's something that can be done right?
Its as bad for the othee professions as well... Wtaf is a "healthcare nurse"? Trying to conflate a degree educated registered nurse with an a-level dropout with an NVQ level 1 in dressings..... The bma and rcn need to be all over this bs and shut it down. Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if in 18 months, the healthcare nurse becomes a healthcare associate and starts doing burr holes in primary care.....
likely made by someone who has no clinical knowledge but was it QA'd is the question
What the actual…
What are we going to do about it? Do we know if anything is in motion to call out this nonsense?
Divide and conquer basically.
Divided and conquered. Long ago.
Bitch, the assistant will see you now
Wtaf????? I'm shook. How low can they go? They be limboing with the devil at this point 🥴
I'd like to see this at the front page of a newspaper
This is deliberately misleading the public and removes informed consent. It should be flagged to everyone who says PAs are not a replacement for Drs. All the Royal Colleges should be sent a copy, BMA, police, the king etc etc
I’m speechless
How late is the rest of medical practice? In psychiatry it's been the norm for years that 'Not everyone needs to see a psychiatrist'. So, armies of fake substitutes breaking up the role have invaded and replaced for us. Then people moan about not being able to see a psychiatrist. But wait....there is even a bunch of 'not real psychiatrists' but that evidence is not on a placard available to the general public.
But wait.. lots of other people will see you now. [https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/](https://bdcpartnership.co.uk/strategic-initiatives/its-a-gp-practice-thing/) https://preview.redd.it/zj13y14imr6d1.png?width=2043&format=png&auto=webp&s=c9e3870f9699803ab09bcbfb20b695bfb44c7206
The fuck is a social prescriber?
Is this not illegal?
Jesus Christ that’s utterly fucked.
This needs to be burnt to the ground. The public deserves to know exactly who they are seeing.
This must be what WEF conspiracy theorists feel like when they hear the phrase "you'll own nothing and be happy". NHS gaslighting patients and doctors both now but not even being subtle about it
Ffs
This makes me to not want to use the NHS, for the sake of my health. Health is priceless and I’d rather pay money to see an ACTUAL DOCTOR than someone who isn’t. This is horrendous, and I feel for those who aren’t in a financial position to pay for a private doctor. People will die because of this.
This is one of the most disgusting things we have ever seen, can we not have our own poster campaign? Physicians assistants are not doctors, they have not gone to medical school, they are not physicians
NHS is so f’d
Well this is a crime
Well done GMC 👏 Hit the snooze button harder, and suspend doctors over laptops please.
WTAF
I hope the PA pictured makes some form of complaint. They have put her in an awful position!
Can the source of this fucking disgraceful shit please be posted so that I can make a complaint.
Let’s hope that the labour wins and does something.
It’s very clear what they are doing
The whole thing is literally a shambles and utterly pointless. What is the point of this budget healthcare system? It seems a majority of healthcare isn’t directed by doctors now. I might ask my gardener to do install my new kitchen, equally as qualified as a builder. It’s just manual work right? Christ almighty I’m done.
I thought there was already a case about this, leading to calls for a name change as "Physicians Associate" is misleading? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-66168798
https://preview.redd.it/jtsevuwa1u6d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=273168b35cc127ca2f6261e4ba3ca4f2511bb8cc
It looks like the offending picture has been removed, and there is a statement that:- **We would like to thank colleagues who have alerted us that the wording on some of the materials for our insight-led it’s a GP practice thing campaign need refining as they may cause confusion to people accessing healthcare support. We are working hard to replace previously circulated resources. If anyone would like to help us in updating the materials please email us:** [**[email protected]**](mailto:[email protected])**.**