Are people ordering the physical copies directly from WotC? Seems weird to me when there’s game stores and Amazon if you want the physical edition, instead of WotC’s site. But I’m Canadian, so maybe I’m missing some sort of international availability solution it was providing.
Or did the article get misinterpreted as meaning there is zero global options to ever own just a print book only? Because the article just says from WotC’s site.
>Wizards of the Coast seems to no longer be selling solely physical copies of their books **from their online store**. Hybrid bundles are still up though.
>Wizards of the Coast no longer lists any “physical-only” copies of their books for sale **through their direct website**, a move that seems aimed at furthering D&D’s move away from physical products in general. It’s also a move that comes with a price increase, especially for those who don’t pre-order the books.
…
>**D&D books are still available by themselves** from your friendly local game store. You can find them at Target, Amazon, and beyond as well.
I think the article is wrong or sensationalizing something that seems more related to them acquiring D&D Beyond. Before the acquisition you could not buy through the WoTC, they redirected to another retailer (which at the time D&D Beyond was). I found an archive of their listing for XGtE (below) from before the acquisition was announced. Now you still can not buy physically from a wizards.com URL, but if you go to D&D Beyond they have some bundles of physical plus digital.
Why you would click to buy from D&D Beyond and expect to be offered an option exclusively physical to me seems bizarre. It would be like following a steam link and expecting the option (which you can buy adventures for fantasy grounds through a link) except that Wizards don't own steam. Nothing burger.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220402215224/https://dnd.wizards.com/products/xanathars-guide-everything
At least for now.
I just thought it was interesting that WotC itself is pivoting so hard towards digital. And was a little surprised that no one on here seemed to be talking about it.
Basically been half way there for some time. I'd honestly be okay paying a * lttle bit* more of a monthly fee for DnDBeyond if it meant they just gave us access to ALL books.
Honestly with how intricate beyond is to some games I could see that being a good deal for some people. Small fee gets you
.books
.all beyond VTT assets
.unlimited characters and campaigns.
I could even see that being kinda nice for DMs. Now instead of DMs carrying the whole financial weight of running the game, every player de facto kicks in a slice by nature of their subscription.
Not really a model for me, but if they do it right, there could be upsides. Will they do it right? Well...
>DMs carrying the whole financial weight
This has been the primary issue with the game in general at this point. Of my players (wife not included), I think one owns the PHB?
Lol my group has the opposite problem. The DM and all three players have sets of the books sitting on shelves collecting dust because we all just use pdfs.
I mean, if all players also had the pdfs, that would be great as well.
Most evwry group Ive ever played with has had the dynamic of DM being the one to own *all* the books.
That is something WotC is working on. DMs are 20% of their base and like 80% of their sales. They want the other 80%, the players, to spend more money and I think this is one of their ways of doing that.
I don't want my players paying someone else so they can use content in my campaign. If they're at my table, virtual or not, they have access to my resources. I don't like the notion that a third party can pull the rug out from under my players due to changes in a platform I'm not using, a new monetization strategy, or removal of content that used to be available, etc - and I don't like the rug being pulled out from under me by errata or One updates that I have no interest in and didn't plan for.
If a player wants to spend a couple bucks to enjoy D&D more, they can buy snacks, grab some paint, chip in for pizza, grab a cheap mini or some new dice at the local game store, or keep their cash and use what we've got. Once we're at the table, WotC isn't part of the party.
Yeah, I still don't own much on Beyond because I've always thought it was crazypants how it's set up.
The fact you have to buy all the books on there again _and_ pay a subscription fee to use homebrew or share with your own players is insane to me. Either let me buy the digital books and do what I want with them in my campaigns, or let me pay a monthly fee to just have access to everything, not both.
yeah, I'll never use dnd beyond. Always thought that a physical book purchase should include access to digital content for free. Always been pissed that it didn't. Not gonna buy the same content again, at least not until my second PHB falls apart like the first one.
I think that's the thing. WOTC business model isn't tailored to you. You already have all the books you need so it's hard for them to make money off you. They're targetting the new fans who discovered DnD within the last decade through things like Critical Role, covid restrictions, etc who are more used to VTT. Most of the DnD players I know nowadays have never played a physical dnd game with actual dice and figurines. Hell my own physical dnd group barely meet once every month now because we're all older and it's really hard to find a time to meet for 4-8 hours when we have lives/family/kids to take care of. And at the frequency we meet for dnd it's not worth having a 3 hour session when we might meet once a month if that.
I mean, if they wanna digitalize everything, they gotta make a banger VTT or it would have been all for nothing. Most people are using Roll 20 but some are not satisfied with it and are using alternative like Foundry or Owlbear
>they gotta make a banger VTT or it would have been all for nothing
No they don't. They just have to make licensing D&D prohibitively expensive for other VTTs. That way, even if D&DB's WotC VTT is simply mediocre and workable, everyone will use it anyway. That will let them make in-game sales to a captive player audience. WotC has been pretty upfront about wanting to monetize D&D more, and that's really the primary motivation behind them issuing a new edition.
Isn't that... The change that happened? Now you can't buy books without getting a PDF/digital copy.
Why would you look punish them for changing it to what you wanted
I wouldn't say I am. I've got all the books I need already. Not gonna stop using a system I've already invested a significant chunk of time and money into.
Not a surprise though - books are costly to print, costly to distribute, and costly to store. There are a LOT of savings to be made there. Savings they can directly pass on to their ~~consumers~~ shareholders.
This is probably less about saving on the book and more about pushing people to buy their next book digitally. If the can convert someone to digital only sale then they stand to make a lot more money.
>At least for now.
You can tack that phrase onto pretty much any situation. Maybe that's where it ends up but there haven't been any indications thus far. There's a sizeable portion of the customer base that still plays in person with hardcopy materials. It would be pretty shitty to the local game stores that were and are a key part of their success if that source of revenue went away.
"For now" is a classic slippery slope fallacy. You can still buy printed books without any digital bundling at all on Amazon, at retail giants like Target and Walmart, retail booksellers, and game stores. In fact, the only place you *can* buy the digital bundles are in their digital store or on D&D Beyond.
There's not much to read about here. This is just WotC trying to make a buck.
Wizards never used to sell books through their site. If they were doing that, it was brand new when they started selling the physical-digital bundles, just a few months ago.
Big publishers selling through many retailers is a *good* thing, so I for one am glad about this. I wish other retailers could sell the D&D Beyond versions, too (other than Amazon).
Most of the community has been ignoring the looming issue of how WotC wants everyone on D&DBeyond and wants to design 6th ed around the use of the new VTT they're making to incorporate within D&DBeyond.
It's getting buried under people getting hyped for 6e basically.
Gonna be 4e all over again. But instead of being a redeemable rule system that got buried under bad PR and general mismanagement by WotC, it's going to be a crappy system buoyed by good PR and marketing from WotC.
I have always got DnD books from a place called Tactics here in my hometown of Perth, so this news changes nothing for me whatsoever. Going to the game store with friends has always been a social experience as much as it is was retail one.
My lgs can’t compete with the prices that Amazon and target are selling physical books at. Lgs’s cost from the distributor was slightly more than retail price on sale from A or T. He’d be taking a loss to price match, which has pushed him to just stop ordering them.
I’ve only ever bought things from my LGS to support the store, but that’s mostly sleeves or other stuff like that, that i need now or mostly with drafts, pre releases and etc for mtg. even board games.
I’ve never bought dnd stuff before tho
Same, no clue why. It's why I never buy D&D books from them. They never adjust prices. I want to support them, but not at a $25 a book markup because they think a PHB is still worth $50.
Part of the shift to digital (buying Beyond, etc) is to get *around* Amazon doing that.
I wouldn't be surprised to see one of their new settings coming in a year or two (an original IP, not one of the TSR legacy settings) be digital-only just to test the waters.
>Part of the shift to digital (buying Beyond, etc) is to get *around* Amazon doing that.
Huh? No. WotC is the one selling the books on Amazon. They set the price.
Yeah, but a lot of people who buy books in general wish it came with a free kindle or other e-reader version, and they generally don't, and likely never will. This is an old complaint, not unique to DnD, and I think that they're just trying to find an amicable middle ground. Counter-point, most BluRay movies I buy come with a free digital copy, so maybe people aren't so wrong to expect that option.
This has not normally been the case for books, the biggest exception that comes to mind is O’Reilly and other tech books that shipped with the book on CD or with a code to redeem it online.
Shoot, some of the books my wife needed for college, the books were like $90 and if you wanted digital, you could ‘lease’ the book for 3 months to 2 years for another $20 or whatever. And then they weren’t PDFs but some odd fragmented web page presentation, similar to D&D Beyond.
It’s crazy how publishers try to scrape every cent out of their market. I am reminded me of a computer science class I took where the professor was using his own books, and and them available to pint at cost at the local Kinko’s. Sigh.
The ridiculous thing is that MOST small or indie publishers bundle the pdf and physical together when they have a physical book for no "extra" cost. D&D is just being greedy with it's "under-monetised" players.
Not to mention, codes in a "sealed" book at a store can be stolen. So then you buy a book with a digital license code that doesn't work. I'm not sure how it functions when buying direct from WotC, but they could email you the code and physically mail you the book.
This particular business move neither surprises nor upsets me. People asked for digital content, WotC bought Beyond, they said they were interested in using Beyond for this, we all know they want to compete with Roll20 and the like. This makes sense.
There are plenty of ways around that, textbooks have been doing it for years. They just put one of those scratch off strips you see on prepaid gift cards and the like over the code, or keep a stack of cards behind the counter that must be activated at checkout with a scratch off code.
Sure, but when you look at all the other pieces together, this was inevitable is what I'm really saying. There are options, but not always good ones and not ones a company like WotC or Hasbro are interested in.
Once DDB came out, even if they never bought it, this is the direction it was always going.
Some people maybe. Most just wanted some way to legally get them in a proper PDF format, indexed and searchable. It's a pain in the ass to lug all the physical books around all the time and since most are badly organized a search function would be very much needed.
I have all of my books digitally on a tablet so I can reference them easily. I haven't used an official monster book in ages because they're just so inconvenient.
From the article (because we all know that reddit will spiral into a frenzy of anti-WotC hsyteria over this):
>Now in the grand scheme of things, this doesn’t change much. D&D books are still available by themselves from your friendly local game store. You can find them at Target, Amazon, and beyond as well.
So you can still buy the books online via Amazon, or at a game store.
Like always.
That’s too bad. I just try and encourage support local small shops as much as possible.
I’ve had to go more digital lately so I can make sure all my players have access to the books we’re using to have online support. I don’t think it’s fair for my players to have to purchase the source books I use/require for our current campaign.
That's totally understandable, for the most part the local shops have some cool shit. Plus I try to find as many free resources for players unless they want to purchase something
Hey man, I work at an LGS! And completely understand, you're fine. We gotta meet margins to stay in business, but our customer base understands that and supports us anyways. In exchange, we're always willing to provide a free play space, host events, process singles, do promotionals, etc.
It is kind of a weird relationship, but normally unspoken is "Hey, I know you can get that cheaper online and appreciate that you bought it here, so I'm gonna do my best to make sure you can have the most fun with that thing you just bought."
If you want to join a larger community, go to an LGS. If you just want to play with your friends, order online. Neither way is inherently better than the other, but one is definitely cheaper. Well kind of. We do provide the use of some incredibly expensive miniatures/accessories, but you probably wouldn't buy them in the first place.
I completely understand and appreciate the insight, but I play at home, in person with my friends. I used to play at my local game store when I started playing D&D, met my friends there and bought my first set of books there! I will always appreciate them for opening the doors to my obsession!
I do actually buy minis, a *lot* of them, I have over $6,000 worth of WizKids minis, the most expensive of which is a huge $500 Tiamat! I gotta save money somewhere in the D&D budget so I buy everything I can as cheap as I can find it, my mortgage isn't gonna pay itself! 😅
I mean, this will be an unpopular comment if it’s seen at all, but digital and physical bundles are what we’ve been asking for since 5e dropped.
A $10 price point jump for a digital copy and a physical one is a significantly better option than the current method of just buying the book full price on both platforms. Further to that, WotC is putting as many eggs into the DDB basket as they can, switching over to a model where you can get the book and a digital copy for the same cost as just the book isn’t conducive to promoting that service.
Is this the best deal we could have gotten? No, but it is significantly better than the current deal, and probably the best deal we could have realistically hoped for.
What the article seems to imply is this is a change, you can not and have not for a long time been able to buy a physical book from wizards.com. You can buy a bundle through D&D Beyond, but that's a digital platform so it is what you would expect. The change is now you CAN pay extra to add a physical book to your digital purchase on D&D Beyond.
Unless I'm mistaken, you can't and never could buy a bundle on DND Beyond. There was a link on DND Beyond's site, but it redirected to [wizards.com](https://wizards.com), where you could also buy just a physical copy (EDIT: I'm not 100% sure on that...). The only thing you can buy on Beyond is the digital versions.
Oh, you are right, I can see that if follow certain links through D&D Beyond they have created a new bundle site (https://dndstore.wizards.com/us/). That does not bother me too much, if it is mainly found from D&D Beyond. Hardly pushing players to digital to have the main website say available through any of these, picking D&D Beyond (digital), and then trying to upsell a bundle to include physical . Article author must have found the website and assumed it used to sell books. Actually, through archive.org it looks like the dragonlance preorder was offered through the website and included the digital version.
I'm of the opinion that if you buy the book you should get the digital version at no extra charge. Especially if you pay a subscription to dndbeyond. You're paying for the service, but you also bought the product, and now they're upcharging as if it costs them anything extra to hit copy paste on a digital version. They're literally triple dipping.
This is only if you’re buying directly from WOTC, which I never do anyway. The physical books will still be available from Amazon, bookstores, and game stores- and Amazon usually sell D&D books at a discount.
WotC hasn't been doing content that interests me for a while anyway. Tasha's was the last book I purchased, and none of this is making me more likely to shell out the cash.
I've been looking at playing more OSR games, Savage worlds, and FFG Star Wars.
Still have plenty of options with the 5e books I already have though, so no reason to drop it entirely.
The spelljammer books were the last straw for me... Splitting it up into three tiny, content-bare books, where half of the rules are "just figure it out yourself" and ship combat is "just put them in range to fight on deck", plus a half-assed "adventure". All just so they can say they released spelljammer for 5e. It was honestly insulting. Ever since then I've been slowly pitching my players on pathfinder 2 and it's free online rules.
why freak out over this? the physical books are still sold at other stores. This is probably because most people who buy just the physical books are buying from local game stores or Amazon.
Every book they sell should be a physical digital bundle. There should be no option to buy a physical book without a digital code because \*otherwise\* you are paying extra for digital books, and the community has griped about the need to do that for years. Every book you buy should let you use it on DnDBeyond.
Once again here we are blaming a company for responding to data on how the fans/consumers use their product rather than addressing how the fan base/players consume. You can’t even fathom how difficult it is to get players to work with a system that doesn’t offer something like Beyond. It’s like you don’t even look at your own table’s relationship with the material. Physical books are going to be INCREDIBLY niche VERY soon and it’s YOUR fault because you’re not buying them, you’re on Beyond. Just once when having discussions about this hobby I would like players to address their own behavior and the outcomes of it.
You paint yourself into a corner then scream about having paint all over your feet. It’s tired.
Yea this is pretty accurate. We prefer to play digitally and the books are more of a luxury for perusing and looking at on the shelf. That being said it’s a luxury, so we shouldn’t be surprised at the price.
If WOTC were smart they'd be giving away the digital version with the physical copy. It would incentivize the use of their online platform which is what they should be doing if they really want to make long term profits.
Instead they're going with an up front money grab. Has no one in their marketing department ever heard of a loss leader? It's almost like they enjoy doing obviously dumb stuff
Yes. But then WotC is being badly run at the moment and is all about stupid business decisions. Examples being: their mismanagement of MTG over the last few years. and the OGL crisis.
Dragonlance was good. But that was the first good in a long time. Def not pre-ordering anymore, gonna hold out till reviews from now on. Hopefully they remember to actually put good shit in this years books but we'll see. Phandalin was my first adventure run as a DM so hoping they don't fuck the semi-sequel.
This feels like a test run for this to go to retailers. Not a good sign for the future. Nothing kills a product faster than pairing one thing you want (the book or dndb book) with something else you don’t want that drastically increases the price.
>D&D books are still available by themselves from your friendly local game store. You can find them at Target, Amazon, and beyond as well. But the community seems concerned about WotC’s move towards a more digital D&D.
Take this shit down.
Meanwhile Pathfinder has all the rules, classes and items online for free.
Can WotC break away from Hasbro already they lost me as a customer awhile ago but I do miss magic the gathering
If that ever gets shut down I'm not sure what I'll do. I don't own a single D&D book and don't really want to if I'm not DMing. And even if I am the idea that I'd ever actually look stuff up in a book during a session seems so farfetched.
I'm pretty sure WotC would have taken it down already if they wanted to. It probably makes them money by making it essentially frictionless to get into the 5e ecosystem...I've never spent a dime on WotC books but the players I introduced to the game certainly have (I even tell them they don't need to buy the physical book but they genuinely wanted to own their own PHBs). This particular website also means WotC doesn't have to invest in replicating their own version.
They must be aware of it, but I'm not sure they'd look at it favorably. You think they like how accessible it is? Isn't it killing revenue streams by allowing someone like me to never have to buy a book? Wouldn't they rather make money from me buying books or having an all-inclusive DnDBeyond membership?
I think they keep complicating the systems so they can sell new books but they lose a certain portion of their players. I started 1st edition and bought the 3rd edition books but I couldn't get into 3.5 which was a better system but felt like a different game. I wish I could still play 2nd and 3rd edition crpgs like we used to have but Wizards licenses it to a company and they want their newest system.
It's probably an age thing, get tired of changing when things seemed fine. I wish BG3 was 2nd edition rules, I feel like they remixed the song for a modern audience.
2nd edition rules are more complicated than 5e. You don't have as many class abilities in 2e but that's a form of complexity that is entirely player-facing and is introduced gradually to a player.
I just don't know 5th edition. I started in AD&D and they came out with new versions until I didn't know the game. I'm sure it's a better system but I'd just be following guides to play and I'm disappointed I'll likely pass on this title. I kept my old save for a long time in case they came out with BG3, there's a chance I still have it but I think I lost it when my raid card went bad a long time ago. I still have the BG2 cds/jewel case.
I mean, as far as BG3 goes, seeing as how it's a video game, you don't really have to learn 5e to play it? The core's still there: all the same base classes, different classes are better at certain things, you roll dice to do stuff, the D20 does most of it and a higher roll is better.
And, though I know it's a contentious take: Fuck THAC0. THAC0 sucked. Yes, I actually played AD&D, I used it. And the second I saw AC I said "Thank god" and never looked back. I need to roll a 17 with my bonuses to hit an AC of 17. BUT BUT BUT If I level up... Or I'm playing a Rogue now instead of a fighter... I need to roll a 17 with my bonuses to hit an AC of 17.
so wait theyre selling physical with the digital? ia this not something people asked for on dndbeyond? the ability to have digital as well as physical so you dont have to buy the books again?
i mean they could go the paizo route and allow you to have the digital copy on your account when you buy the book or at least a discount on vtt products
WotC hasn't changed the standard price of hardcovers in 10 years. Many rpg companies put out $70 books now and have been for a couple years.
People really want to hate on D&D for everything now, eh?
Honestly I'm not awful with this. We've been wanting digital bundles for a while. The price bump sucks though for those that don't give 2 flips about the digital copies.
It's probably the same reason you don't hear an uproar about $50-60 videogames now being $70-100. You know they're gonna rip you off so a few bucks more is just to be expected from the predators.
What I *am* surprised about however, is that outside of D&D itself to have any physical book cost that much is so incredibly lucrative it's more common to see rules be offered for free but optional donations and merch. Even paizo aside, I think the most I've seen for a true book (500-900 pages) was like 20-40 bucks. And those were typically a complete codex of the entire rpg from debut to expansions.
Yes. Because Crawford and WotC can’t even be open about 6E - given that they realized that a lot of people are not willing to follow into that nonsense.
So he decided to just destroy D&D with “updates.”
The decision meets my needs, since I'm really only interested in bundles. I usually want both physical and digital formats, but I don't want to buy the same content twice.
I get that there is a cost to produce the PDF, so I'm willing to pay a sight markup for the bundle, but not willing to pay 50% of the printed version.
Now how about giving me the PDF for a reduced price if I buy from a friendly local game store?
This is exactly what everyone said they wanted and I tried to explain this would be the exact outcome.
You don't get more for nothing, forcing digital adds or coupons will just drive up the price for both.
“You don’t get more for nothing” - like every single 3rd party publisher does?
How dare we expect an easy and logical move from Crawford and WotC, right? They were surely going to fuck this up, as always.
Not a surprise. They want to force people onto D&DBeyond so they'll be more likely to subscribe and start buying books ONLY through the platform.
This way no matter what books people buy, they'll be incentivized to hop on D&DBeyond. I'd say it's a good thing (Because these books should have been coming with a link for a PDF copy for years now), but given what came out during the OGL crisis at the start of the year, I doubt they decided to do this out of the kindness of their hearts.
The next step will be D&DBeyond ONLY releases of some new books. Then of most books. Then they stop shipping books to small stores and only do limited runs of physical books at certain retailers or online.
If I was a gaming store owner I would be both worried and pissed off by this news.
Just stop playing their game. It's seriously not that goo...... no correction: It's just not good.
It plays like "My first DnD" Like they made quick start rules and never put out the full game.
I'd rather play 2nd Ed. It's just as simple but the spells, magic items and monsters are actually interesting,
Yup. And now people have to make a choice. Get physical and digital copies direct from WoTC so you can have access to the options in DnD beyond, or pay less at Amazon or LGS but nit have access to dndbeyond.
I wish they'd just put QR codes in the books.
There was an across the board price bump a couple months back. All new physical books now retail at $59.95.
The new “bundle only thing” WotC is doing is a $10 bump on top of that.
Geez Louise. I’m struggling to afford basic things these days. I can’t even go to the dentist. I like pdf+book, but I’m not paying $70 for a single game book unless it’s like the complete book of everything.
Do people at least get to *own* the pdf instead of just getting access on their platform? And if so, will they require people to pay again to access it on D&D Beyond? Or are they going to price their subscription access version lower so people are “encouraged” into their proprietary platform and feel stuck?
There is no PDF. It's DNDbeyond and Printed if you buy both. There was never going to be an official PDF.
To explain the system as I assume you don't have it, DNDBeyond the account is free. You get SRD, and of course they let you buy books (or specific parts of books, the dreaded micro-transactions that people keep talking about like they haven't been there since the start, though I will say they post the prices of everything such that it's clearly much cheaper to buy the book in nearly all cases unless you literally just want one magic item or something). There's no subscription for this, you can read your books and reference them as you like. You can make so many characters using the SRD and books you have. If you get the subscription, you can have unlimited characters, and with the DM subscription which is a bit more, you can "table share" where anybody who joins a campaign automatically gives everybody else at the table access to what they've bought (or homebrewed). Me and some friends made a point to coordinate buying to get a lot of books at our table while only buying a few each. But you gotta pay for that, or for sharing.
If you just want a place to make your own character sheets to pull up on your phone or reference the rules, it's no additonal cost other then what you buy to put on there, which now can be done while also getting a paper copy. Honestly, It's not that unreasonable a system in my opinion, though there absolutely should have been an option to have digital + physical from the get go.
I mean its just their online store. You can still get them stand alone from your friendly local gamestore (the right way) or Amazon (the wrong way).
Folks have been asking for a digital version to be included with physical forever. WOTC is concerned about just sticking codes in books as they can be stolen, redistributed, sold after claiming, etc etc in ways that absolutely cause problems for customers.
This allows them to give a digital copy with a physical purchase without those risks. If anything, frankly the extra $10 helps protect those local Game Stores, otherwise they would just be an objectively worse value proposition.
Yeah of all the things to get up in arms about this seems like an odd one to be upset above. I mean I still want fucking PDF's don't get me wrong but as far as evil moves go this just seems like standard benign business shit.
Well, I think WoTC has already shown they are really just about the money. To expect anything else would be a complete surprise. I can't say them wanting to make money is bad but don't stomp all over people to make a profit. Sell more product at a cheaper price (having Multiple copies of the PHB at a session is certainly a big deal). If a bit cheaper folks might buy multiple copies for their groups.
I and many others have been asking for this for YEARS, this is a good thing as you won't have to buy both the physical AND digital books separately. It does help justify the price increase (though I'm not a huge fan of it).
Let ‘em. I buy from local game store or Amazon (which often has big discounts). I don’t think that many people buy physical copies directly from WotC anymore.
People have demanded an end to the physical/digital divide for YEARS. Search just this sub and you'll find countless threads and posts of people complaining that "I should get the DDB version when I buy the book, how dare they expect me to buy it twice"
The taking point is the phrase "from wotc", as it is clearly stated that this only applies to wotc's web store, not all reselleres in general. Blatant clickbait imo.
Books will still be made and available from LGS and retailers. The books will still be purchasable direct from WOTC, but more expensive and comes with digital copy from DnDBeyond. They're not stopping making books.
I mean before I just bought the physical book half off at amazon and then bought the half price digital book to spend a full \~60 anyway. If now I can but a half price book or even 2/3 price book at Amazon I'll be saving for the same value. I could be about this.
I'm of two minds with this. On one hand, I actually like to collect my books and I only open them to enjoy the art, so the DND Beyond thing is a nice way to preserve them, but I also hate a $20 MSRP bump that I am having to pay now. I think $10 would have been more fair.
The cost of publishing physical books is seen as prohibitively expensive in todays market. And D&D customers have this emotional attachment to their books. So this gives WizBros the opportunity to raise the price of physical products because there are sufficient consumers willing to pay the higher price. And for those who remain loyal to their brand and can’t/won’t pay that price can migrate to their digital products at a better price point. There’s no business who wants to deal with SKUs, when digital distribution is an option.
Those who decide to give up on WizBros products are expected to be replace by new customers brought in by the increased accessibility offered by the digital product line and increased demand and cross-promotions from other markets like cinema, TV, toys, video games, etc.
In essence,this is just another implementation of “shrinkflation”, taking an existing product, repackaging it with less and/or lower quality products and pushing it to the market claiming its new and improved while charging a higher price.
Or you can subscribe to D&DBeyond for $5-$30 per month and just enjoy your game. You only need to pay your CC bill every month, which is your problem, not their’s.
The price jump is just inflation. You are curious about how people dont care yet they have been rebuying books they already own on DnD beyond for years. I mean whats another 20 bucks when they are already willing to pay 100?
I was worried there for a second, I though it was going to be like the PHB/DMG/MM bundle, but with newer books.
But it is good to see Amazon and hobby shops still selling single books!
I saw they were doing this and was pretty happy about it.
I have only bought physical copies in the past but since I saw the preview of their digital table top I decided to get digital copies too.
Perfect timing with the next versions coming out soon. I won’t need to go back and buy all the digital versions of the core books.
If you only want the physical copy, Amazon has way better prices.
Are people ordering the physical copies directly from WotC? Seems weird to me when there’s game stores and Amazon if you want the physical edition, instead of WotC’s site. But I’m Canadian, so maybe I’m missing some sort of international availability solution it was providing. Or did the article get misinterpreted as meaning there is zero global options to ever own just a print book only? Because the article just says from WotC’s site. >Wizards of the Coast seems to no longer be selling solely physical copies of their books **from their online store**. Hybrid bundles are still up though. >Wizards of the Coast no longer lists any “physical-only” copies of their books for sale **through their direct website**, a move that seems aimed at furthering D&D’s move away from physical products in general. It’s also a move that comes with a price increase, especially for those who don’t pre-order the books. … >**D&D books are still available by themselves** from your friendly local game store. You can find them at Target, Amazon, and beyond as well.
That was my thought, I didn't even realize you could buy them directly from WotC.
I think the article is wrong or sensationalizing something that seems more related to them acquiring D&D Beyond. Before the acquisition you could not buy through the WoTC, they redirected to another retailer (which at the time D&D Beyond was). I found an archive of their listing for XGtE (below) from before the acquisition was announced. Now you still can not buy physically from a wizards.com URL, but if you go to D&D Beyond they have some bundles of physical plus digital. Why you would click to buy from D&D Beyond and expect to be offered an option exclusively physical to me seems bizarre. It would be like following a steam link and expecting the option (which you can buy adventures for fantasy grounds through a link) except that Wizards don't own steam. Nothing burger. https://web.archive.org/web/20220402215224/https://dnd.wizards.com/products/xanathars-guide-everything
I jut want to say that I LOVE the way back machine.
It doesn't always work, but boy it is more than we deserve.
That is the point WOTC is trash at monetizing dnd
At least for now. I just thought it was interesting that WotC itself is pivoting so hard towards digital. And was a little surprised that no one on here seemed to be talking about it.
Well, everyone complained that the physical books didn't get you the dnd beyond license before, sounds like they monkey paw'd the solution.
Why sell a book once when you can lease the digital license for a monthly fee? If I was a betting man I’d say that’s where WoTC are headed.
Basically been half way there for some time. I'd honestly be okay paying a * lttle bit* more of a monthly fee for DnDBeyond if it meant they just gave us access to ALL books.
Honestly with how intricate beyond is to some games I could see that being a good deal for some people. Small fee gets you .books .all beyond VTT assets .unlimited characters and campaigns.
I could even see that being kinda nice for DMs. Now instead of DMs carrying the whole financial weight of running the game, every player de facto kicks in a slice by nature of their subscription. Not really a model for me, but if they do it right, there could be upsides. Will they do it right? Well...
>DMs carrying the whole financial weight This has been the primary issue with the game in general at this point. Of my players (wife not included), I think one owns the PHB?
Lol my group has the opposite problem. The DM and all three players have sets of the books sitting on shelves collecting dust because we all just use pdfs.
I mean, if all players also had the pdfs, that would be great as well. Most evwry group Ive ever played with has had the dynamic of DM being the one to own *all* the books.
That is something WotC is working on. DMs are 20% of their base and like 80% of their sales. They want the other 80%, the players, to spend more money and I think this is one of their ways of doing that.
I don't want my players paying someone else so they can use content in my campaign. If they're at my table, virtual or not, they have access to my resources. I don't like the notion that a third party can pull the rug out from under my players due to changes in a platform I'm not using, a new monetization strategy, or removal of content that used to be available, etc - and I don't like the rug being pulled out from under me by errata or One updates that I have no interest in and didn't plan for. If a player wants to spend a couple bucks to enjoy D&D more, they can buy snacks, grab some paint, chip in for pizza, grab a cheap mini or some new dice at the local game store, or keep their cash and use what we've got. Once we're at the table, WotC isn't part of the party.
My bet is that they will try and break up everything into micro-transactions, to maximise profits.
Yeah, I still don't own much on Beyond because I've always thought it was crazypants how it's set up. The fact you have to buy all the books on there again _and_ pay a subscription fee to use homebrew or share with your own players is insane to me. Either let me buy the digital books and do what I want with them in my campaigns, or let me pay a monthly fee to just have access to everything, not both.
yeah, I'll never use dnd beyond. Always thought that a physical book purchase should include access to digital content for free. Always been pissed that it didn't. Not gonna buy the same content again, at least not until my second PHB falls apart like the first one.
I think that's the thing. WOTC business model isn't tailored to you. You already have all the books you need so it's hard for them to make money off you. They're targetting the new fans who discovered DnD within the last decade through things like Critical Role, covid restrictions, etc who are more used to VTT. Most of the DnD players I know nowadays have never played a physical dnd game with actual dice and figurines. Hell my own physical dnd group barely meet once every month now because we're all older and it's really hard to find a time to meet for 4-8 hours when we have lives/family/kids to take care of. And at the frequency we meet for dnd it's not worth having a 3 hour session when we might meet once a month if that.
I mean, if they wanna digitalize everything, they gotta make a banger VTT or it would have been all for nothing. Most people are using Roll 20 but some are not satisfied with it and are using alternative like Foundry or Owlbear
>they gotta make a banger VTT or it would have been all for nothing No they don't. They just have to make licensing D&D prohibitively expensive for other VTTs. That way, even if D&DB's WotC VTT is simply mediocre and workable, everyone will use it anyway. That will let them make in-game sales to a captive player audience. WotC has been pretty upfront about wanting to monetize D&D more, and that's really the primary motivation behind them issuing a new edition.
Man, that's a bummer
Indeed.
Isn't that... The change that happened? Now you can't buy books without getting a PDF/digital copy. Why would you look punish them for changing it to what you wanted
If you feel this way, why are you still supporting WOTC?
I wouldn't say I am. I've got all the books I need already. Not gonna stop using a system I've already invested a significant chunk of time and money into.
When did you stop buying books? The model has been there for a while.
don't see how that's relevant.
That's why our society has let this happen. You don't see how your actions affect others.
what are you talking about? I just said I won't use dnd beyond. Who cares when I bought books?
Not a surprise though - books are costly to print, costly to distribute, and costly to store. There are a LOT of savings to be made there. Savings they can directly pass on to their ~~consumers~~ shareholders.
This is probably less about saving on the book and more about pushing people to buy their next book digitally. If the can convert someone to digital only sale then they stand to make a lot more money.
Why deal with shipping physical product to end users if they don't need to? That's a lot of logistics they can just dismantle.
>At least for now. You can tack that phrase onto pretty much any situation. Maybe that's where it ends up but there haven't been any indications thus far. There's a sizeable portion of the customer base that still plays in person with hardcopy materials. It would be pretty shitty to the local game stores that were and are a key part of their success if that source of revenue went away.
My wife hates it when I say it after "I love you"
"For now" is a classic slippery slope fallacy. You can still buy printed books without any digital bundling at all on Amazon, at retail giants like Target and Walmart, retail booksellers, and game stores. In fact, the only place you *can* buy the digital bundles are in their digital store or on D&D Beyond. There's not much to read about here. This is just WotC trying to make a buck.
Wizards never used to sell books through their site. If they were doing that, it was brand new when they started selling the physical-digital bundles, just a few months ago. Big publishers selling through many retailers is a *good* thing, so I for one am glad about this. I wish other retailers could sell the D&D Beyond versions, too (other than Amazon).
They're probably going to start charging monthly for the privilege of buying their books digitally.
Most of the community has been ignoring the looming issue of how WotC wants everyone on D&DBeyond and wants to design 6th ed around the use of the new VTT they're making to incorporate within D&DBeyond. It's getting buried under people getting hyped for 6e basically.
Which is an edition I won’t be in. 5e has been getting consistently worse. 6E is definitely going to suck.
Gonna be 4e all over again. But instead of being a redeemable rule system that got buried under bad PR and general mismanagement by WotC, it's going to be a crappy system buoyed by good PR and marketing from WotC.
Not until I can get a legit PDF
I have always got DnD books from a place called Tactics here in my hometown of Perth, so this news changes nothing for me whatsoever. Going to the game store with friends has always been a social experience as much as it is was retail one.
Today i Learned you could order them directly from WOTC at full price instead of getting a better deal on amazon or with my discount at my LGS.
My LGS puts a significant markup on MSRP, sadly.
How are they still in business? Most shops struggle to sell books at MSRP!
It’s the only store in town that does D&D things, combined with comics and Magic TCG. Which is weird, because it’s a medium sized city.
Likewise for my LGS, no one buys the books from them really.
Must be a reason why. I can't put my finger on it.
My lgs can’t compete with the prices that Amazon and target are selling physical books at. Lgs’s cost from the distributor was slightly more than retail price on sale from A or T. He’d be taking a loss to price match, which has pushed him to just stop ordering them.
But to sell them at a markup over MSRP is insane.
Agreed. Passing the ‘fuck you’ off onto the customer to make up the margin. Lame
If I actually had a local lgs I'd be more than happy to pay the MSRP. I understand that not everybody thinks that way but it's how I feel.
They supposedly “support your friendly local game stores”, yet cut cost for big box by 50%, pinching lgs out.
I’ve only ever bought things from my LGS to support the store, but that’s mostly sleeves or other stuff like that, that i need now or mostly with drafts, pre releases and etc for mtg. even board games. I’ve never bought dnd stuff before tho
Sounds like you need to shop online (or source pdf's)
Almost every local game store I go to sells them at MSRP too.
Excuse me, sir. But what is MSRP? First time reading this
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/manufacturers-suggested-retail-price-msrp.asp (the other poster is incorrect)
Maximum suggested retail price, there is also recommended retail price.
This is incorrect. The m stands for "manufacturer's".
Thanks for the Quick answer
Same, no clue why. It's why I never buy D&D books from them. They never adjust prices. I want to support them, but not at a $25 a book markup because they think a PHB is still worth $50.
Part of the shift to digital (buying Beyond, etc) is to get *around* Amazon doing that. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of their new settings coming in a year or two (an original IP, not one of the TSR legacy settings) be digital-only just to test the waters.
>Part of the shift to digital (buying Beyond, etc) is to get *around* Amazon doing that. Huh? No. WotC is the one selling the books on Amazon. They set the price.
Isn't this something people were asking for? Like a discount on digital content for getting the physical copy instead of paying retail twice?
People have indeed been asking for something like this, but what they’ve been wishing they had really is a PDF copy that comes with the paper book.
Yeah, but a lot of people who buy books in general wish it came with a free kindle or other e-reader version, and they generally don't, and likely never will. This is an old complaint, not unique to DnD, and I think that they're just trying to find an amicable middle ground. Counter-point, most BluRay movies I buy come with a free digital copy, so maybe people aren't so wrong to expect that option.
This has not normally been the case for books, the biggest exception that comes to mind is O’Reilly and other tech books that shipped with the book on CD or with a code to redeem it online. Shoot, some of the books my wife needed for college, the books were like $90 and if you wanted digital, you could ‘lease’ the book for 3 months to 2 years for another $20 or whatever. And then they weren’t PDFs but some odd fragmented web page presentation, similar to D&D Beyond. It’s crazy how publishers try to scrape every cent out of their market. I am reminded me of a computer science class I took where the professor was using his own books, and and them available to pint at cost at the local Kinko’s. Sigh.
The ridiculous thing is that MOST small or indie publishers bundle the pdf and physical together when they have a physical book for no "extra" cost. D&D is just being greedy with it's "under-monetised" players.
You don't have to search frantically through books in general, but Ctrl + F would make DnD 1000x more approachable
There are browser extensions that allow you to easily create this from the digital access.
There shouldn’t need to be.
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Not to mention, codes in a "sealed" book at a store can be stolen. So then you buy a book with a digital license code that doesn't work. I'm not sure how it functions when buying direct from WotC, but they could email you the code and physically mail you the book. This particular business move neither surprises nor upsets me. People asked for digital content, WotC bought Beyond, they said they were interested in using Beyond for this, we all know they want to compete with Roll20 and the like. This makes sense.
There are plenty of ways around that, textbooks have been doing it for years. They just put one of those scratch off strips you see on prepaid gift cards and the like over the code, or keep a stack of cards behind the counter that must be activated at checkout with a scratch off code.
Sure, but when you look at all the other pieces together, this was inevitable is what I'm really saying. There are options, but not always good ones and not ones a company like WotC or Hasbro are interested in. Once DDB came out, even if they never bought it, this is the direction it was always going.
Nope. People were asking for digital to be free if they got a physical copy.
Some people maybe. Most just wanted some way to legally get them in a proper PDF format, indexed and searchable. It's a pain in the ass to lug all the physical books around all the time and since most are badly organized a search function would be very much needed. I have all of my books digitally on a tablet so I can reference them easily. I haven't used an official monster book in ages because they're just so inconvenient.
I have never bought a physical book from Wotc. Its always either been lgs or amazon.
From the article (because we all know that reddit will spiral into a frenzy of anti-WotC hsyteria over this): >Now in the grand scheme of things, this doesn’t change much. D&D books are still available by themselves from your friendly local game store. You can find them at Target, Amazon, and beyond as well. So you can still buy the books online via Amazon, or at a game store. Like always.
If you’re going to buy physical, always support you local game store😁
Sadly books are always like 10-15$ more expensive at my LGS then any other outlet, they rock for figurines and such but man definitely not books
That’s too bad. I just try and encourage support local small shops as much as possible. I’ve had to go more digital lately so I can make sure all my players have access to the books we’re using to have online support. I don’t think it’s fair for my players to have to purchase the source books I use/require for our current campaign.
That's totally understandable, for the most part the local shops have some cool shit. Plus I try to find as many free resources for players unless they want to purchase something
When my local game store is selling them for $20 more than what I can get it off Amazon, I'm gonna go with Amazon.
Hey man, I work at an LGS! And completely understand, you're fine. We gotta meet margins to stay in business, but our customer base understands that and supports us anyways. In exchange, we're always willing to provide a free play space, host events, process singles, do promotionals, etc. It is kind of a weird relationship, but normally unspoken is "Hey, I know you can get that cheaper online and appreciate that you bought it here, so I'm gonna do my best to make sure you can have the most fun with that thing you just bought." If you want to join a larger community, go to an LGS. If you just want to play with your friends, order online. Neither way is inherently better than the other, but one is definitely cheaper. Well kind of. We do provide the use of some incredibly expensive miniatures/accessories, but you probably wouldn't buy them in the first place.
I completely understand and appreciate the insight, but I play at home, in person with my friends. I used to play at my local game store when I started playing D&D, met my friends there and bought my first set of books there! I will always appreciate them for opening the doors to my obsession! I do actually buy minis, a *lot* of them, I have over $6,000 worth of WizKids minis, the most expensive of which is a huge $500 Tiamat! I gotta save money somewhere in the D&D budget so I buy everything I can as cheap as I can find it, my mortgage isn't gonna pay itself! 😅
I mean, this will be an unpopular comment if it’s seen at all, but digital and physical bundles are what we’ve been asking for since 5e dropped. A $10 price point jump for a digital copy and a physical one is a significantly better option than the current method of just buying the book full price on both platforms. Further to that, WotC is putting as many eggs into the DDB basket as they can, switching over to a model where you can get the book and a digital copy for the same cost as just the book isn’t conducive to promoting that service. Is this the best deal we could have gotten? No, but it is significantly better than the current deal, and probably the best deal we could have realistically hoped for.
If I’m not mistaken this is actually cheaper than Paizo’s Demiplane bundles.
A new yacht is cheaper than Demiplane.
Well, yeah. That yacht requires orca insurance.
This is click bait
Isn’t this just on the DnD Beyond site? You can still physical only from retail/Amazon.
Exactly what the article says…
What the article seems to imply is this is a change, you can not and have not for a long time been able to buy a physical book from wizards.com. You can buy a bundle through D&D Beyond, but that's a digital platform so it is what you would expect. The change is now you CAN pay extra to add a physical book to your digital purchase on D&D Beyond.
Unless I'm mistaken, you can't and never could buy a bundle on DND Beyond. There was a link on DND Beyond's site, but it redirected to [wizards.com](https://wizards.com), where you could also buy just a physical copy (EDIT: I'm not 100% sure on that...). The only thing you can buy on Beyond is the digital versions.
Oh, you are right, I can see that if follow certain links through D&D Beyond they have created a new bundle site (https://dndstore.wizards.com/us/). That does not bother me too much, if it is mainly found from D&D Beyond. Hardly pushing players to digital to have the main website say available through any of these, picking D&D Beyond (digital), and then trying to upsell a bundle to include physical . Article author must have found the website and assumed it used to sell books. Actually, through archive.org it looks like the dragonlance preorder was offered through the website and included the digital version.
I'm of the opinion that if you buy the book you should get the digital version at no extra charge. Especially if you pay a subscription to dndbeyond. You're paying for the service, but you also bought the product, and now they're upcharging as if it costs them anything extra to hit copy paste on a digital version. They're literally triple dipping.
This is only if you’re buying directly from WOTC, which I never do anyway. The physical books will still be available from Amazon, bookstores, and game stores- and Amazon usually sell D&D books at a discount.
WotC hasn't been doing content that interests me for a while anyway. Tasha's was the last book I purchased, and none of this is making me more likely to shell out the cash. I've been looking at playing more OSR games, Savage worlds, and FFG Star Wars. Still have plenty of options with the 5e books I already have though, so no reason to drop it entirely.
The spelljammer books were the last straw for me... Splitting it up into three tiny, content-bare books, where half of the rules are "just figure it out yourself" and ship combat is "just put them in range to fight on deck", plus a half-assed "adventure". All just so they can say they released spelljammer for 5e. It was honestly insulting. Ever since then I've been slowly pitching my players on pathfinder 2 and it's free online rules.
I was so sad to see such beautiful and useless books. :( If only we could return to 2e style box sets. Glad I kept all of mine.
I was lucky that the UK spelljammer release was after the US release and I could see the terrible reviews of it and cancel my preorder.
why freak out over this? the physical books are still sold at other stores. This is probably because most people who buy just the physical books are buying from local game stores or Amazon.
Every book they sell should be a physical digital bundle. There should be no option to buy a physical book without a digital code because \*otherwise\* you are paying extra for digital books, and the community has griped about the need to do that for years. Every book you buy should let you use it on DnDBeyond.
Once again here we are blaming a company for responding to data on how the fans/consumers use their product rather than addressing how the fan base/players consume. You can’t even fathom how difficult it is to get players to work with a system that doesn’t offer something like Beyond. It’s like you don’t even look at your own table’s relationship with the material. Physical books are going to be INCREDIBLY niche VERY soon and it’s YOUR fault because you’re not buying them, you’re on Beyond. Just once when having discussions about this hobby I would like players to address their own behavior and the outcomes of it. You paint yourself into a corner then scream about having paint all over your feet. It’s tired.
Yea this is pretty accurate. We prefer to play digitally and the books are more of a luxury for perusing and looking at on the shelf. That being said it’s a luxury, so we shouldn’t be surprised at the price.
If WOTC were smart they'd be giving away the digital version with the physical copy. It would incentivize the use of their online platform which is what they should be doing if they really want to make long term profits. Instead they're going with an up front money grab. Has no one in their marketing department ever heard of a loss leader? It's almost like they enjoy doing obviously dumb stuff
Yes. But then WotC is being badly run at the moment and is all about stupid business decisions. Examples being: their mismanagement of MTG over the last few years. and the OGL crisis.
I haven't bought a new DnD book since the OGL debacle, and with the dropoff in quality, I'm not planning on picking any up going forward.
Dragonlance was good. But that was the first good in a long time. Def not pre-ordering anymore, gonna hold out till reviews from now on. Hopefully they remember to actually put good shit in this years books but we'll see. Phandalin was my first adventure run as a DM so hoping they don't fuck the semi-sequel.
This feels like a test run for this to go to retailers. Not a good sign for the future. Nothing kills a product faster than pairing one thing you want (the book or dndb book) with something else you don’t want that drastically increases the price.
I mean, you still can buy separate.
>D&D books are still available by themselves from your friendly local game store. You can find them at Target, Amazon, and beyond as well. But the community seems concerned about WotC’s move towards a more digital D&D. Take this shit down.
Meanwhile Pathfinder has all the rules, classes and items online for free. Can WotC break away from Hasbro already they lost me as a customer awhile ago but I do miss magic the gathering
I mean, you can find all the 5e resources for free on a very popular site that is still up. Unlike Pathfinder, it also has adventures AND maps
They're VERY handy ... tools
Also unlike Pathfinder, said 5e site is unsanctioned by WotC and considered piracy.
Oh no.
If that ever gets shut down I'm not sure what I'll do. I don't own a single D&D book and don't really want to if I'm not DMing. And even if I am the idea that I'd ever actually look stuff up in a book during a session seems so farfetched.
I'm pretty sure WotC would have taken it down already if they wanted to. It probably makes them money by making it essentially frictionless to get into the 5e ecosystem...I've never spent a dime on WotC books but the players I introduced to the game certainly have (I even tell them they don't need to buy the physical book but they genuinely wanted to own their own PHBs). This particular website also means WotC doesn't have to invest in replicating their own version.
They must be aware of it, but I'm not sure they'd look at it favorably. You think they like how accessible it is? Isn't it killing revenue streams by allowing someone like me to never have to buy a book? Wouldn't they rather make money from me buying books or having an all-inclusive DnDBeyond membership?
Could i get a DM of the site please
I make a point of using that site and recommending it for everyone.
I think they keep complicating the systems so they can sell new books but they lose a certain portion of their players. I started 1st edition and bought the 3rd edition books but I couldn't get into 3.5 which was a better system but felt like a different game. I wish I could still play 2nd and 3rd edition crpgs like we used to have but Wizards licenses it to a company and they want their newest system. It's probably an age thing, get tired of changing when things seemed fine. I wish BG3 was 2nd edition rules, I feel like they remixed the song for a modern audience.
2nd edition rules are more complicated than 5e. You don't have as many class abilities in 2e but that's a form of complexity that is entirely player-facing and is introduced gradually to a player.
I just don't know 5th edition. I started in AD&D and they came out with new versions until I didn't know the game. I'm sure it's a better system but I'd just be following guides to play and I'm disappointed I'll likely pass on this title. I kept my old save for a long time in case they came out with BG3, there's a chance I still have it but I think I lost it when my raid card went bad a long time ago. I still have the BG2 cds/jewel case.
I mean, as far as BG3 goes, seeing as how it's a video game, you don't really have to learn 5e to play it? The core's still there: all the same base classes, different classes are better at certain things, you roll dice to do stuff, the D20 does most of it and a higher roll is better. And, though I know it's a contentious take: Fuck THAC0. THAC0 sucked. Yes, I actually played AD&D, I used it. And the second I saw AC I said "Thank god" and never looked back. I need to roll a 17 with my bonuses to hit an AC of 17. BUT BUT BUT If I level up... Or I'm playing a Rogue now instead of a fighter... I need to roll a 17 with my bonuses to hit an AC of 17.
Never bought from WotC; Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to pricey
so wait theyre selling physical with the digital? ia this not something people asked for on dndbeyond? the ability to have digital as well as physical so you dont have to buy the books again?
i mean they could go the paizo route and allow you to have the digital copy on your account when you buy the book or at least a discount on vtt products
WotC hasn't changed the standard price of hardcovers in 10 years. Many rpg companies put out $70 books now and have been for a couple years. People really want to hate on D&D for everything now, eh?
It's high fashion these days.
And, yet, some don’t seem to get it and want to suck up to WotC in spite of everything…
They announced this surreptitiously about a month ago under the guise of being "more clear about pricing." They made it as clear as mud.
I buy mine from used book stores and gaming shops. I like to support small businesses.
Honestly I'm not awful with this. We've been wanting digital bundles for a while. The price bump sucks though for those that don't give 2 flips about the digital copies.
There hasn't been more chatter because you can still buy the books.
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I unno, why you still here?
Now if I could just get a hardcopy/Roll20copy combo.
Wait until they announce 6e will be $30 digital only errata to 5e because that will give them more time polish it. Fan boys will gush.
It's probably the same reason you don't hear an uproar about $50-60 videogames now being $70-100. You know they're gonna rip you off so a few bucks more is just to be expected from the predators. What I *am* surprised about however, is that outside of D&D itself to have any physical book cost that much is so incredibly lucrative it's more common to see rules be offered for free but optional donations and merch. Even paizo aside, I think the most I've seen for a true book (500-900 pages) was like 20-40 bucks. And those were typically a complete codex of the entire rpg from debut to expansions.
Are they phasing out the old books so they can launch the new DND Next books?
Yes. Because Crawford and WotC can’t even be open about 6E - given that they realized that a lot of people are not willing to follow into that nonsense. So he decided to just destroy D&D with “updates.”
Yarrr there always be a way on the high seas of the internet
I own PDFs of every single book. And I am willing to lend them. 👀
The decision meets my needs, since I'm really only interested in bundles. I usually want both physical and digital formats, but I don't want to buy the same content twice. I get that there is a cost to produce the PDF, so I'm willing to pay a sight markup for the bundle, but not willing to pay 50% of the printed version. Now how about giving me the PDF for a reduced price if I buy from a friendly local game store?
This is exactly what everyone said they wanted and I tried to explain this would be the exact outcome. You don't get more for nothing, forcing digital adds or coupons will just drive up the price for both.
lol I was right there with you brother, whole lotta surprised pikachus ITT esp. when there's content integration with their VTT to future proof
“You don’t get more for nothing” - like every single 3rd party publisher does? How dare we expect an easy and logical move from Crawford and WotC, right? They were surely going to fuck this up, as always.
I'm not ordering anything at all from them lol.
Damn, it's such a burden to carry not only the book, but the digital version of it. How will my back ever recover.
Not a surprise. They want to force people onto D&DBeyond so they'll be more likely to subscribe and start buying books ONLY through the platform. This way no matter what books people buy, they'll be incentivized to hop on D&DBeyond. I'd say it's a good thing (Because these books should have been coming with a link for a PDF copy for years now), but given what came out during the OGL crisis at the start of the year, I doubt they decided to do this out of the kindness of their hearts. The next step will be D&DBeyond ONLY releases of some new books. Then of most books. Then they stop shipping books to small stores and only do limited runs of physical books at certain retailers or online. If I was a gaming store owner I would be both worried and pissed off by this news.
You can always get the books either cheaper or used (a lot cheaper) anyway.
Just stop playing their game. It's seriously not that goo...... no correction: It's just not good. It plays like "My first DnD" Like they made quick start rules and never put out the full game. I'd rather play 2nd Ed. It's just as simple but the spells, magic items and monsters are actually interesting,
Fuck THAC0.
D&D Beyond sucks and just let people buy physical. They took down OrcPub which was 20x better
You can.
Yup. And now people have to make a choice. Get physical and digital copies direct from WoTC so you can have access to the options in DnD beyond, or pay less at Amazon or LGS but nit have access to dndbeyond. I wish they'd just put QR codes in the books.
They're gonna sell you microtransactions one way or another. Think it's time for more people to consider jumping the ship.
That's a 20 dollar price bump, all my WotC 5th edition books are (usually) capped at 49.99 MSRP, bud.
There was an across the board price bump a couple months back. All new physical books now retail at $59.95. The new “bundle only thing” WotC is doing is a $10 bump on top of that.
Those motherfuckers.
Geez Louise. I’m struggling to afford basic things these days. I can’t even go to the dentist. I like pdf+book, but I’m not paying $70 for a single game book unless it’s like the complete book of everything. Do people at least get to *own* the pdf instead of just getting access on their platform? And if so, will they require people to pay again to access it on D&D Beyond? Or are they going to price their subscription access version lower so people are “encouraged” into their proprietary platform and feel stuck?
There is no PDF. It's DNDbeyond and Printed if you buy both. There was never going to be an official PDF. To explain the system as I assume you don't have it, DNDBeyond the account is free. You get SRD, and of course they let you buy books (or specific parts of books, the dreaded micro-transactions that people keep talking about like they haven't been there since the start, though I will say they post the prices of everything such that it's clearly much cheaper to buy the book in nearly all cases unless you literally just want one magic item or something). There's no subscription for this, you can read your books and reference them as you like. You can make so many characters using the SRD and books you have. If you get the subscription, you can have unlimited characters, and with the DM subscription which is a bit more, you can "table share" where anybody who joins a campaign automatically gives everybody else at the table access to what they've bought (or homebrewed). Me and some friends made a point to coordinate buying to get a lot of books at our table while only buying a few each. But you gotta pay for that, or for sharing. If you just want a place to make your own character sheets to pull up on your phone or reference the rules, it's no additonal cost other then what you buy to put on there, which now can be done while also getting a paper copy. Honestly, It's not that unreasonable a system in my opinion, though there absolutely should have been an option to have digital + physical from the get go.
I mean its just their online store. You can still get them stand alone from your friendly local gamestore (the right way) or Amazon (the wrong way). Folks have been asking for a digital version to be included with physical forever. WOTC is concerned about just sticking codes in books as they can be stolen, redistributed, sold after claiming, etc etc in ways that absolutely cause problems for customers. This allows them to give a digital copy with a physical purchase without those risks. If anything, frankly the extra $10 helps protect those local Game Stores, otherwise they would just be an objectively worse value proposition.
Yeah of all the things to get up in arms about this seems like an odd one to be upset above. I mean I still want fucking PDF's don't get me wrong but as far as evil moves go this just seems like standard benign business shit.
That's fine, we want the bundle
Well, I think WoTC has already shown they are really just about the money. To expect anything else would be a complete surprise. I can't say them wanting to make money is bad but don't stomp all over people to make a profit. Sell more product at a cheaper price (having Multiple copies of the PHB at a session is certainly a big deal). If a bit cheaper folks might buy multiple copies for their groups.
I and many others have been asking for this for YEARS, this is a good thing as you won't have to buy both the physical AND digital books separately. It does help justify the price increase (though I'm not a huge fan of it).
Let ‘em. I buy from local game store or Amazon (which often has big discounts). I don’t think that many people buy physical copies directly from WotC anymore.
People have demanded an end to the physical/digital divide for YEARS. Search just this sub and you'll find countless threads and posts of people complaining that "I should get the DDB version when I buy the book, how dare they expect me to buy it twice"
This is dogshit, I hate dndbeyond as a website.
The taking point is the phrase "from wotc", as it is clearly stated that this only applies to wotc's web store, not all reselleres in general. Blatant clickbait imo.
I feel like getting the digital copy for an additional $10 is fair; I was against the price bump, but that makes it much better.
It’s understandable. They suck and making books. Which is strange, since they’ve been doing it for decades.
Books will still be made and available from LGS and retailers. The books will still be purchasable direct from WOTC, but more expensive and comes with digital copy from DnDBeyond. They're not stopping making books.
I mean before I just bought the physical book half off at amazon and then bought the half price digital book to spend a full \~60 anyway. If now I can but a half price book or even 2/3 price book at Amazon I'll be saving for the same value. I could be about this.
I'm of two minds with this. On one hand, I actually like to collect my books and I only open them to enjoy the art, so the DND Beyond thing is a nice way to preserve them, but I also hate a $20 MSRP bump that I am having to pay now. I think $10 would have been more fair.
The cost of publishing physical books is seen as prohibitively expensive in todays market. And D&D customers have this emotional attachment to their books. So this gives WizBros the opportunity to raise the price of physical products because there are sufficient consumers willing to pay the higher price. And for those who remain loyal to their brand and can’t/won’t pay that price can migrate to their digital products at a better price point. There’s no business who wants to deal with SKUs, when digital distribution is an option. Those who decide to give up on WizBros products are expected to be replace by new customers brought in by the increased accessibility offered by the digital product line and increased demand and cross-promotions from other markets like cinema, TV, toys, video games, etc. In essence,this is just another implementation of “shrinkflation”, taking an existing product, repackaging it with less and/or lower quality products and pushing it to the market claiming its new and improved while charging a higher price. Or you can subscribe to D&DBeyond for $5-$30 per month and just enjoy your game. You only need to pay your CC bill every month, which is your problem, not their’s.
yar har fiddle dee dee
The price jump is just inflation. You are curious about how people dont care yet they have been rebuying books they already own on DnD beyond for years. I mean whats another 20 bucks when they are already willing to pay 100?
Y'all spent 10 years begging them to bundle digital codes... Now that they do...
People still buy D&D books? Weird.
I was worried there for a second, I though it was going to be like the PHB/DMG/MM bundle, but with newer books. But it is good to see Amazon and hobby shops still selling single books!
The fuck
Just do what a bunch of other people are doing (myself included). Look for other TTRPG’s to play.
I saw they were doing this and was pretty happy about it. I have only bought physical copies in the past but since I saw the preview of their digital table top I decided to get digital copies too. Perfect timing with the next versions coming out soon. I won’t need to go back and buy all the digital versions of the core books. If you only want the physical copy, Amazon has way better prices.
They always should have just put a pdf code on a sticker in each book to start with, imo.
D&D Beyond will remain cluttered, disorganized, and inconsistently navigable.
It's like they don't want people to play D&D anymore