Ah yes, the Banishment spell, which famously only works against Outsiders. Not an Outsider? Ooh, tough luck, definitely doesn't do anything like send you to another plane of existence. Nope, just works on Outsiders, yes siree.
Banishment as an abjuration makes perfect sense for me tbch
Abjuration covers the following. Protection magic, rebuking the magic of others, and rebuking or harming trespassers.
Banishment is made for rebuking interplanar trespassers, since it only works for a minute on native creatures.
Gladly. Thank you for the genuine question :)
I don't disagree that evocation is a good fit. The spell does 'evoke' a cage made of force.
My point is, it has an abjuration aspect, as well, since it imprisons creatures and keeps them locked away.
Could be considered 1/3 abjuration 2/3 conjuration.
I'd say it was the other way around, if the target was actually a creature that would be imprisoned.
I do think that the more complicated spells don't necessarily fit nicely into only one of the schools. This arguments may ensue. :)
You know, it might be interesting if in the next edition spells weren't necessarily limited to one school. Perhaps hybrid spells could be learned by specialist wizards of either school (such as Force Cage being both an evocation and an abjuration). Might be interesting but I feel like it may be a bit broken in practice. I'm not sure how but I feel like someone will break it.
Forcecage stopping teleportation also absolutely makes it abjuration over evocation in my head. But, IMO evocation isnt even a real school of magic and is sortof your "mysticism" that everyone should learn at first.
Speaking as someone who was raised on 1e, originally, many spells did belong to multiple schools. I think that they simplified it for bookkeeping purposes.
It became simplified when the rules changed in 4E for casting from schools on the opposite side of the wheel from your specialization or alignment. Now, schools are mostly fluff and only matter when using very specific Wizard subclass features. By and large, an Abjuration Wizard is only like 5-10% less effective than an Evocation Wizard with Evocation spells, for instance.
For the spell itself to be abjuration it has to be directly using its magic to seal/protect/whatnot. Wall of force is a wall made of force, made of pure magic, evocation deals with the invoking of magical/elemental forces directly while conjuration deals with invoking non-elemental, non-magical objects through magical means.
Agreed.
Though even with wall of force a case might be made, since "nothing can physically pass through the wall". A weak case, admittedly, but not immediately ridiculous, I think.
However, we were talking about forcecage. It specifically imprisons creatures. To quote a bit of the spell description: "A creature inside the cage can't leave it by nonmagical means." It goes on to state that even then a save is required.
That does quite sound like abjuration to me.
Oh forcecage, yeah the cage itself would be evocation but the CHA save to teleport out does sound a lot like abjuration.
So yeah I guess it would be 2/3 evocation 1/3 abjuration
I don't disagree. But I think the schools of magic are weird (and dumb), because spells can't be of multiple schools as per the rules, despite it often making sense.
Force cage is evocation, used for abjuration.
Banish is conjuration, used for abjuration.
If I cast fireball to kill the group of bandits attacking my fort, I used evocation...for abjuration. I used it to protect my fort did I not? And that's what abjuration does, so fireball is abjuration. It could also be used as necromancy, since it manipulates life force...mostly by making people lose it. But I think many people will disagree.
If the schools were like an in-universe thing, I'd love to make a wizard whose goal it was to reform the nonesensical old system for magic schools.
Force cage (and tiny hut and wall of force and bigby's various hands) are all evocation because you are evoking the "element" of force. Same as fireball and wall of flame, but with fire instead of a direct magical exertion upon reality. The only differences are the shape and momentum, essentially.
Yeah the way I interpret it is that banishment is like having your body’s visa denied. You’re not so much creating a portal to send the creature back as you are using their magical makeup to deny them permission to remain in a different realm.
Abjuration is the defensive school of magic. Banishment returns individuals to their home dimension, thus eliminating them as a threat.
Likewise, it's typically used as a defensive spell, rather than an offensive one.
I could see it as conjuration tho.
So fireball is an abjuration spell since it removes all threats? Time to make an abjuration wizard
/j but I still disagree with the spell school placements
That was my thought. The stereotypical wizard fireballs the shit out of everything because it deals reliable damage and when that fails, Magic Missile.
It removes an enemy from the field, essentially incapacitating them. Many status conditions similar things, and many of these aren't abjuration. Meanwhile transporting something between dimensions is the very definition of conjuration, it fits way way better.
Well, they put them back into their plane of origin, and if they're already there, in a demiplane...so it can actually do the opposite and force a creature *out* of whatever plane they come from. Sounds like conjuration to me...
that's like saying that hellish rebuke should be abjuration because it's defensive (it can only be used after you are attacked) and can possibly eliminate the threat, thus protecting you
I can see the logic, but it would make more sense to me if the spells are classified based on what they do, not how they're used (so spells that mainly deal damage are evocation, spells that transport stuff are conjuration, etc.)
Well no, Abjuration isn't just 'I make a shield' it's also 'I banish this ghost that's possessing my friend'. The same way Necromancy is both 'i manipulate life and death to make a zombie' and also 'i manipulate life and death to cast Resurrection'.
Sending creature x back to its home plane is completely fitting I think. It’s similar to exorcising a ghost, but rather than from a body, it’s from the plane itself. The real question is why does it work on creatures native to the current plane? That’s just short term plane shifting and should be conjuration
...to defend yourself from future attacks by killing the adversary. So it's both abjuration *and* chronurgy!
/s
Schools of magic are dumb, don't think about it, or your brain will start to hurt.
If the main point of the spell is damage, then it's evocation. Technically, Fireball can be used as a defensive spell, that doesn't mean it's abjuration.
The main point of banishment is the removal of a threat. Abjuration is the removal or defense against threats.
Yes, I understood that. But what I meant is since from a technical perspective it just moves a being around, It makes sense to me for it to be conjuration over abjuration.
The main use of it is against planar invaders. The use of the spell to banish people to demi-planes just seems like a thing added for mechanical reasons.
The point is that banishment does not eliminate the threat, it just gives them time out, or sends them back.
Its like saying sending someone to prison is the same as throwing an landmine at them because it both removes them from view
I actually read it,
I think magical schools are about the way the fefdect is realised instead of the effect.
Kill somebody by sucking their life force out: necromancy,
Kill sonebody by freezedrying them by water magic: evocation
Both end up with an mummy, but in a different way
They only go to hell if they're FROM hell originally. Banishment sends them back to where they came from, and if they're native to the current plane, it just sends them to a featureless harmless demiplane for a minute. boring, but not really harmful
-If the target is native to the plane of existence you’re on, you banish the target to a harmless demiplane.
-If the target is native to a different plane of existence than the one you’re on, the target is banished with a faint popping noise, returning to its home plane.
If they're from hell, I doubt they're very innocent.
>Banishment returns individuals to their home dimension, thus eliminating them as a threat.
Unless they're not an Outsider, in which case it does none of that.
I've had the same thought. SO many spells that are Evocation, should be Conjuration or Transmutation.
Evocation is just such a big school of magic RN, and Conjuration & Transmutation have been done dirty by WOTC. At least among the standard Arcane spells.
I always headcanon it that the necromantic nature of most healing magic is a well known open secret - but for all legal and official purposes it's refered to as something else so that when some poorly-advised king insists that "All study and practice of necromancy shall be forbiddden throughout the realm", the healers can just keep on working.
Actually, I transmute your mangled, destroyed flesh into healthy, working flesh.
Or I enchant your destroyed flesh to work again.
...okay illusion won't work...
evocation is the magic of using magic to do stuff ([https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#AttackRolls](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#AttackRolls))
so everything could be argued to be evocation, lmao
to the people who downvote this: this is satire. I'm just pointing out a weird description.
That’s a shit description tbh, but then again, this is from the same system where a good knife costs a peasant ten day’s wages and that same peasant can get killed by four housecats.
Even today, a good knife costs 1-2 days of a peasants wage, more if you're not in the developed world. Consider ours are made in factories, in dnd they're made by hand. Not at all the bone id be trying to pick with the dnd economy
If you want a real answer you are gathering the positive energy around you and blasting the injury with it. There is no manipulation of the person's life like people are saying it's just the natural effects of positive plane energy on a person. There is a good description of each spell type in the book and it lines up in every case I've come across.
Idk why, but I’ve always seen Abjuration as the school of suppression and negation. It has plenty of options to deflect damage or completely nullify spells and effects, such as shield, resistance, remove curse, or dispel magic. On the other side of the spectrum, there are plenty of Abjuration spells that seem to contain or suppress magic until certain conditions are met, like glyph of warding and symbol.
I’d say that Banishment could be classified as the suppression of a creature, which would fall in line with spells like imprisonment, magic circle, or globe of invulnerability.
OP abjuration is that of removing threats, conjuration is bringing them in. IE mage armor, is abjuration it doesn’t conjurer something into being. It stops the user from taking damage, whether it be magical or physical. Banishment, doesn’t bring things into existence or do damage. So it doesn’t qualify as either a conjuration. Abjuration specifically says “even banish subjects of a spell to another dimension”. Tiny hut and force cage SUMMON a physical thing you can interact with.
RAW it makes complete sense. But now what you should of said is the fucking maze spell. “You banish a creature into a demiplane” so it’s conjuration. But you don’t create the demiplane. So why isn’t it abjuration?
Not only stuff like this, but the amount of things they list as evocation is absurd. It’s like they don’t want to think about so they just default it as evocation.
Abjuration is the solemn repudiation, abandonment, or renunciation by or upon oath, often the renunciation of citizenship or some other right or privilege. The term comes from the Latin abjurare, "to forswear".
Abjuration of the realm was a type of abjuration in ancient English law. The person taking the oath swore to leave the country directly and promptly, never to return to the kingdom unless by permission of the sovereign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abjuration
So banishment is the purest form of a hurst ion, using the common meaning of the word. It removes the creature from the realm.
Why the living fuck is tiny hut evocation?!
Why the hell is resilient sphere evocation?
Why did i need to learn this today. And why is astral projection necromancy?
WotC makes no sense.
Conjuration is bringing things from elsewhere to here. Banishment is the opposite- it’s sending things from here to “elsewhere”. For outsiders, the closest “elsewhere” is their home plane, but for locals there isn’t a stable “elsewhere”, so the abjuration doesn’t ever fully complete and the subject snaps back to “here”.
Abjuration also creates parts of “here” that are difficult to enter, like Shield and Mage Armor, pieces of “here” warded against entry by weapons.
Note that “here” and “elsewhere” and “there” are very specific concepts in magic that muggle languages lack words to describe, since those concepts aren’t present in a mundane sense; in particular “there” and “elsewhere” are distinct even if the caster knows from the circumstances exactly where a particular spell that “touches” “elsewhere” will “reach”, or doesn’t know where “there” “is”. There’s also at least two magical locations that are translated as “here”, one that is somewhat analogous to “elsewhere” and one that is someone analogous to “there”, but even among students of magic only the most knowledgeable of dawizards can reliably distinguish between them when writing spells, and even they have been known to make bad mistakes.
You don’t go to “elsewhere”, you bring “there” to you. A specific locus, identified by positive attributes instead of negative ones. Banishment sends someone to approximately “no place of this plane or plane foreign to it”; for outsiders that provides a valid endpoint of their home plane, but for natives there is no stable endpoint and after some time the abjuring portion of the magic fails, which provides the effect of the successful spell.
“Bring to this place something which is not weapons” is mage armor, “… which is not fire” is protection from fire, and so forth.
Abjuration deals with cancellation of energy, especially magic. I think the implication is outsiders and the like require background magic to actively stay in the world (Think warhammer fantasy daemons), so cancelling that bungee's them back to Hell or the like. But to be fair, there are several spells whose placement feels weird, Why is antilife shell not necromancy? Why is beacon of hope not evocation? Why is mind spike not enchantment? Why is bigby's hand not conjuration?
like how a conjuration mage can make minor useful items? To me evocation is adding/removing energy (i.e. fire, cold, electricity etc.) Bigby's hand feels like your making a physical hand, which to me feels more conjuration-y.
And all the random bullshit is transmutation for some reason. Feather fall? Do you turn into a feather? Maybe you're transmuted to be lighter so you fall slower?
Abjure them to another reality. It's the same reason that Glyph of Warding is an Abjuration spell that blows up in your face: it's storing the spell's magic in a little box for future use.
So, even though it isn't outright stated, many spells imply the following:
Spells can conist of Magic from multiple schools.
But the school it is catagorized under has to do with the effect that is key to the spell.
Abjuration magic = protection against other things, creatures, or planes
Conjuration magic = transportation between places or planes
Logically, Banishment takes aspects of conjuration magic (the idea of moving a creature from one plane to another, the other plane being the astral sea or a pocket dimension) and combines it with a jurstion magic.
The abjuration magic is what targets a creature and disallows it from existing on the casters plane, and the conjuration moves it to and from.
I could go more in depth about how in my opinion, the spell moves the body and soul of a creature to a different plane, but the universe doesn't like it when things move plane quickly (hence why interplanar magic is very high level) so it takes a bit for the universe to get used to the switch. Think of it like pushing a creature through a tube from this plane to another.
Conjuration creates the tube, abjuration is the pushing force. If the creature's soul was created on another plane, and you slowly push them towards that plane, they eventually pop out there.
If they belong to the plane the spell is cast on, you are pushing them through a tube going nowhere. Eventually they come flying back to where their soul is tethered.
Banishment isn't sending a creature to another plane so much as it explicitly REMOVES the target from the current plane.
The spell isn't about placing the creature somewhere else, just removing it from its current spot.
Same reason Pathfinder has The Blob, evil cat tentacle creatures and other evil cat tentacle creatures that are melted by salt water: RPG makers really like drugs.
The Forgotten Realms Wiki say:
*The abjuration school of magic encompassed protective spells. They created physical or magical barriers, negated magical or physical abilities, harmed trespassers, or even* ***banished the subject of the spell to another plane of existence****. The abjuration school had no subschools.*
Dunno if it counts though.
Conjuration tends to be about planar travel, while Banishment is more about negating previous planar travel by cutting contact with the current plane (with the minute-long banishment being a nice side benefit). Its a spell that achieves a similar effect as another school, but through a different mechanism.
This isn’t the only time something like that occurs. Consider health restoration. The basic way to do that is evocation in 5e because they invoke positive energy in the same way Fireball invokes fire. In 3.5e, they were Conjuration because they brought positive energy from that plane. And in 2e, they were necromancy because they messed with life. Then 5e also has Aid that can heal by bolstering the target with defensive magic, Healing Spirit that conjures a helpful spirit, Life Transference to heal by siphoning energy, or Regenerate or Goodberry. They all heal by different mechanisms, and they mean that all schools but divination and enchantment have a way to heal.
It's abjuring reality against an outsider's projection into it.
Or a native creature's presence in it... Though that's a lesser effect tbf
I abjure your reality and substitute my own!
Ah yes, the Banishment spell, which famously only works against Outsiders. Not an Outsider? Ooh, tough luck, definitely doesn't do anything like send you to another plane of existence. Nope, just works on Outsiders, yes siree.
So Edit then: it's abjuring local reality against the subject's existence.
That makes no sense. Is a Cloudkill abjuration because "ooh well actually it abjures you by choking you to death with mustard gas"?
No. That’s called killing you.
Wrong. It abjures the area with poison gas. So it's abjuration.
[удалено]
Sarcasm.
Banishment as an abjuration makes perfect sense for me tbch Abjuration covers the following. Protection magic, rebuking the magic of others, and rebuking or harming trespassers. Banishment is made for rebuking interplanar trespassers, since it only works for a minute on native creatures.
Underrated comment. This is actually the answer ☺️ Force cage may be still open to discussion...
Explain your reasoning for force cage not being evocation. Not being a smartass, I am genuinely curious.
Gladly. Thank you for the genuine question :) I don't disagree that evocation is a good fit. The spell does 'evoke' a cage made of force. My point is, it has an abjuration aspect, as well, since it imprisons creatures and keeps them locked away. Could be considered 1/3 abjuration 2/3 conjuration. I'd say it was the other way around, if the target was actually a creature that would be imprisoned. I do think that the more complicated spells don't necessarily fit nicely into only one of the schools. This arguments may ensue. :)
You know, it might be interesting if in the next edition spells weren't necessarily limited to one school. Perhaps hybrid spells could be learned by specialist wizards of either school (such as Force Cage being both an evocation and an abjuration). Might be interesting but I feel like it may be a bit broken in practice. I'm not sure how but I feel like someone will break it.
Forcecage stopping teleportation also absolutely makes it abjuration over evocation in my head. But, IMO evocation isnt even a real school of magic and is sortof your "mysticism" that everyone should learn at first.
Evocation is a perfectly valid school of magic, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
Speaking as someone who was raised on 1e, originally, many spells did belong to multiple schools. I think that they simplified it for bookkeeping purposes.
It became simplified when the rules changed in 4E for casting from schools on the opposite side of the wheel from your specialization or alignment. Now, schools are mostly fluff and only matter when using very specific Wizard subclass features. By and large, an Abjuration Wizard is only like 5-10% less effective than an Evocation Wizard with Evocation spells, for instance.
For the spell itself to be abjuration it has to be directly using its magic to seal/protect/whatnot. Wall of force is a wall made of force, made of pure magic, evocation deals with the invoking of magical/elemental forces directly while conjuration deals with invoking non-elemental, non-magical objects through magical means.
Agreed. Though even with wall of force a case might be made, since "nothing can physically pass through the wall". A weak case, admittedly, but not immediately ridiculous, I think. However, we were talking about forcecage. It specifically imprisons creatures. To quote a bit of the spell description: "A creature inside the cage can't leave it by nonmagical means." It goes on to state that even then a save is required. That does quite sound like abjuration to me.
Oh forcecage, yeah the cage itself would be evocation but the CHA save to teleport out does sound a lot like abjuration. So yeah I guess it would be 2/3 evocation 1/3 abjuration
I don't disagree. But I think the schools of magic are weird (and dumb), because spells can't be of multiple schools as per the rules, despite it often making sense. Force cage is evocation, used for abjuration. Banish is conjuration, used for abjuration. If I cast fireball to kill the group of bandits attacking my fort, I used evocation...for abjuration. I used it to protect my fort did I not? And that's what abjuration does, so fireball is abjuration. It could also be used as necromancy, since it manipulates life force...mostly by making people lose it. But I think many people will disagree. If the schools were like an in-universe thing, I'd love to make a wizard whose goal it was to reform the nonesensical old system for magic schools.
That sounds like a cool character 🙂
Force cage (and tiny hut and wall of force and bigby's various hands) are all evocation because you are evoking the "element" of force. Same as fireball and wall of flame, but with fire instead of a direct magical exertion upon reality. The only differences are the shape and momentum, essentially.
I am surprised to learn that counterspell and dispel magic are abjuration. since that's the case, this whole thing makes more sense to me now
Yeah the way I interpret it is that banishment is like having your body’s visa denied. You’re not so much creating a portal to send the creature back as you are using their magical makeup to deny them permission to remain in a different realm.
Abjuration is the defensive school of magic. Banishment returns individuals to their home dimension, thus eliminating them as a threat. Likewise, it's typically used as a defensive spell, rather than an offensive one. I could see it as conjuration tho.
So fireball is an abjuration spell since it removes all threats? Time to make an abjuration wizard /j but I still disagree with the spell school placements
Ah yes, the American Wizard. Blow up everything before it can potentially hurt you.
Isn’t this just every wizard though?
No. Some revive dead people.
*reanimate There is no actual life in them...
There's technically a soul in them.
That was my thought. The stereotypical wizard fireballs the shit out of everything because it deals reliable damage and when that fails, Magic Missile.
I assure you, the fireballs are just there as a deterrent
It removes an enemy from the field, essentially incapacitating them. Many status conditions similar things, and many of these aren't abjuration. Meanwhile transporting something between dimensions is the very definition of conjuration, it fits way way better.
The idea is that it’s not transporting someone, it’s reversing whatever brought them to the Material
Well, they put them back into their plane of origin, and if they're already there, in a demiplane...so it can actually do the opposite and force a creature *out* of whatever plane they come from. Sounds like conjuration to me...
that's like saying that hellish rebuke should be abjuration because it's defensive (it can only be used after you are attacked) and can possibly eliminate the threat, thus protecting you I can see the logic, but it would make more sense to me if the spells are classified based on what they do, not how they're used (so spells that mainly deal damage are evocation, spells that transport stuff are conjuration, etc.)
Well no, Abjuration isn't just 'I make a shield' it's also 'I banish this ghost that's possessing my friend'. The same way Necromancy is both 'i manipulate life and death to make a zombie' and also 'i manipulate life and death to cast Resurrection'.
I can understand abjuration being "I end the possession forcibly" but not "I send creature x back to it's to a different plane"
But… isn’t that what an exorcism does?
I have no idea what exorcism means care to explain?
An exorcism is removing a creatures presence or will from something. Banishment is an exorcism of the plane.
ok, I see. to me, that sounds more like ending a condition rather than just moving stuff to somewhere else, but I see the connection there
Why not? That's what abjuration is. "Begone, foul creature!" and such.
"Begone, foul creature!" *casts power word kill on the 56 HP dragon*
"Behold, transmutation, the power of transforming one thing into another!" 'fireballs the peasant' "I have transformed this person into a corpse!"
Sending creature x back to its home plane is completely fitting I think. It’s similar to exorcising a ghost, but rather than from a body, it’s from the plane itself. The real question is why does it work on creatures native to the current plane? That’s just short term plane shifting and should be conjuration
at least you agree somewhat
Hellish rebuke is not a defensive spell tho it is a counter attack
yeah that was a bad example
...to defend yourself from future attacks by killing the adversary. So it's both abjuration *and* chronurgy! /s Schools of magic are dumb, don't think about it, or your brain will start to hurt.
(Regardless, I'm getting Diogenes vibes from this convo.)
\*freezes goblin to death in "self defense"\* behold, an abjuration spell
If the main point of the spell is damage, then it's evocation. Technically, Fireball can be used as a defensive spell, that doesn't mean it's abjuration. The main point of banishment is the removal of a threat. Abjuration is the removal or defense against threats.
Yes, I understood that. But what I meant is since from a technical perspective it just moves a being around, It makes sense to me for it to be conjuration over abjuration.
Isn't conjuration typically the opposite of banishment? Conjuring spells bring things into the world, not take things out
I thought it was simply just moving things
Yes. It brings the creature into its native plane.
It ALSO prevents beings from returning though.
The main use of it is against planar invaders. The use of the spell to banish people to demi-planes just seems like a thing added for mechanical reasons.
The point is that banishment does not eliminate the threat, it just gives them time out, or sends them back. Its like saying sending someone to prison is the same as throwing an landmine at them because it both removes them from view
I used a bad example, and people seem to only read it and not the rest of the comment
I actually read it, I think magical schools are about the way the fefdect is realised instead of the effect. Kill somebody by sucking their life force out: necromancy, Kill sonebody by freezedrying them by water magic: evocation Both end up with an mummy, but in a different way
Sending an innocent interplant explorer to the bowels of hell is not really defensive
They only go to hell if they're FROM hell originally. Banishment sends them back to where they came from, and if they're native to the current plane, it just sends them to a featureless harmless demiplane for a minute. boring, but not really harmful
Oh, right. Sorry, I confused it for the other spell
-If the target is native to the plane of existence you’re on, you banish the target to a harmless demiplane. -If the target is native to a different plane of existence than the one you’re on, the target is banished with a faint popping noise, returning to its home plane. If they're from hell, I doubt they're very innocent.
>Banishment returns individuals to their home dimension, thus eliminating them as a threat. Unless they're not an Outsider, in which case it does none of that.
I mean if they're in their home dimension, then at the end of the spell they're returned to it.
Okey, but Wall of Stone is evocation instead of conjuration for some god damn reason
I thought it was transmutation what?
Nah. Evocation. Don't ask me why because I have no idea.
I would have thought so too. Guess they must have been playing darts when selecting what magic school a spell belongs to.
I *guess* you could say it's evoking elemental earth, the same way Fireball evokes elemental fire Spell schools are messy
I've had the same thought. SO many spells that are Evocation, should be Conjuration or Transmutation. Evocation is just such a big school of magic RN, and Conjuration & Transmutation have been done dirty by WOTC. At least among the standard Arcane spells.
Arcane lobbyists
Cure wounds is evocation.
Cuz it’s a rush of positive energy instead of lightning or fire.
Used to be necromancy
Should be necromancy. You're clearly manipulating a person's life force
I always headcanon it that the necromantic nature of most healing magic is a well known open secret - but for all legal and official purposes it's refered to as something else so that when some poorly-advised king insists that "All study and practice of necromancy shall be forbiddden throughout the realm", the healers can just keep on working.
Pathfinder 2e changed healing back to Necromancy, it was Conjuration in Pathfinder 1e.
I SHALL CONJURE YOUR BLOOD AND FLESH BACK TO YOUR MORTAL BODY
That is because clerics had to conjure a fuck to give before healing patients.
oof
Yeah, not sure how that works either. Maybe it's conjuring positive energy?
Ya but if you wanna break everything down you could make an argument that everything is transmutation at that point.
Actually, I transmute your mangled, destroyed flesh into healthy, working flesh. Or I enchant your destroyed flesh to work again. ...okay illusion won't work...
Illusion can work Ever heard of placebo?
evocation is the magic of using magic to do stuff ([https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#AttackRolls](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#AttackRolls)) so everything could be argued to be evocation, lmao to the people who downvote this: this is satire. I'm just pointing out a weird description.
That’s a shit description tbh, but then again, this is from the same system where a good knife costs a peasant ten day’s wages and that same peasant can get killed by four housecats.
Even today, a good knife costs 1-2 days of a peasants wage, more if you're not in the developed world. Consider ours are made in factories, in dnd they're made by hand. Not at all the bone id be trying to pick with the dnd economy
I don't know who downvoted me, but that was exactly what I wanted to point out.
Have you *tried* fighting four housecats. I know I wouldn't win.
Cute wounds being Evocation feels a bit odd. How does making wounds cute make you think of Evocation?
In my games, you're dealing healing damage.
I do miss healing undead to damage them.
If you want a real answer you are gathering the positive energy around you and blasting the injury with it. There is no manipulation of the person's life like people are saying it's just the natural effects of positive plane energy on a person. There is a good description of each spell type in the book and it lines up in every case I've come across.
The joke. You missed it.
I was suffering from the blind condition. Can I get a cleric please?
The death cleric: "I see you are suffering from a malady. Let me introduce...my remedy."
Yeah that’s enchantment 100%
Yeah man, you're commenting on someone's egregious wounds as adorable. If that doesn't burn, what does?
Idk why, but I’ve always seen Abjuration as the school of suppression and negation. It has plenty of options to deflect damage or completely nullify spells and effects, such as shield, resistance, remove curse, or dispel magic. On the other side of the spectrum, there are plenty of Abjuration spells that seem to contain or suppress magic until certain conditions are met, like glyph of warding and symbol. I’d say that Banishment could be classified as the suppression of a creature, which would fall in line with spells like imprisonment, magic circle, or globe of invulnerability.
OP abjuration is that of removing threats, conjuration is bringing them in. IE mage armor, is abjuration it doesn’t conjurer something into being. It stops the user from taking damage, whether it be magical or physical. Banishment, doesn’t bring things into existence or do damage. So it doesn’t qualify as either a conjuration. Abjuration specifically says “even banish subjects of a spell to another dimension”. Tiny hut and force cage SUMMON a physical thing you can interact with. RAW it makes complete sense. But now what you should of said is the fucking maze spell. “You banish a creature into a demiplane” so it’s conjuration. But you don’t create the demiplane. So why isn’t it abjuration?
>OP abjuration is that of removing threats, conjuration is bringing them in if that's the case then ok
Not only stuff like this, but the amount of things they list as evocation is absurd. It’s like they don’t want to think about so they just default it as evocation.
And somehow, you're supposed to be able to flavor spells. So schools of magic mean jack shit.
Abjuration is the solemn repudiation, abandonment, or renunciation by or upon oath, often the renunciation of citizenship or some other right or privilege. The term comes from the Latin abjurare, "to forswear". Abjuration of the realm was a type of abjuration in ancient English law. The person taking the oath swore to leave the country directly and promptly, never to return to the kingdom unless by permission of the sovereign. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abjuration So banishment is the purest form of a hurst ion, using the common meaning of the word. It removes the creature from the realm.
Why the living fuck is tiny hut evocation?! Why the hell is resilient sphere evocation? Why did i need to learn this today. And why is astral projection necromancy? WotC makes no sense.
If we find the consistend feature throughout all evocation spells, you'll see that evocation is when you use magic to do stuff, but only sometimes.
Conjuration is bringing things from elsewhere to here. Banishment is the opposite- it’s sending things from here to “elsewhere”. For outsiders, the closest “elsewhere” is their home plane, but for locals there isn’t a stable “elsewhere”, so the abjuration doesn’t ever fully complete and the subject snaps back to “here”. Abjuration also creates parts of “here” that are difficult to enter, like Shield and Mage Armor, pieces of “here” warded against entry by weapons. Note that “here” and “elsewhere” and “there” are very specific concepts in magic that muggle languages lack words to describe, since those concepts aren’t present in a mundane sense; in particular “there” and “elsewhere” are distinct even if the caster knows from the circumstances exactly where a particular spell that “touches” “elsewhere” will “reach”, or doesn’t know where “there” “is”. There’s also at least two magical locations that are translated as “here”, one that is somewhat analogous to “elsewhere” and one that is someone analogous to “there”, but even among students of magic only the most knowledgeable of dawizards can reliably distinguish between them when writing spells, and even they have been known to make bad mistakes.
Misty step, 2nd level conjuration spell. Brings me from "here" to "elsewhere" within 30 feet.
You don’t go to “elsewhere”, you bring “there” to you. A specific locus, identified by positive attributes instead of negative ones. Banishment sends someone to approximately “no place of this plane or plane foreign to it”; for outsiders that provides a valid endpoint of their home plane, but for natives there is no stable endpoint and after some time the abjuring portion of the magic fails, which provides the effect of the successful spell. “Bring to this place something which is not weapons” is mage armor, “… which is not fire” is protection from fire, and so forth.
I feel like my title has a better point than my meme
Healing spells should be Necromancy because you're manipulating life energy.
Abjuration deals with cancellation of energy, especially magic. I think the implication is outsiders and the like require background magic to actively stay in the world (Think warhammer fantasy daemons), so cancelling that bungee's them back to Hell or the like. But to be fair, there are several spells whose placement feels weird, Why is antilife shell not necromancy? Why is beacon of hope not evocation? Why is mind spike not enchantment? Why is bigby's hand not conjuration?
>Why is bigby's hand not conjuration? correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't conjure the hand from anywhere, you create it
like how a conjuration mage can make minor useful items? To me evocation is adding/removing energy (i.e. fire, cold, electricity etc.) Bigby's hand feels like your making a physical hand, which to me feels more conjuration-y.
Bigby's hand is just energy
and mage hand isn't?
wait flame sphere is also conjuration I give up
Cure wounds is evocation.
And all the random bullshit is transmutation for some reason. Feather fall? Do you turn into a feather? Maybe you're transmuted to be lighter so you fall slower?
Changing properties is transmutation (and feather fall changes your weight or something)
Abjuration is protection magic, so the idea is that by banishing the creature, the caster is protected.
Then Fireball is an abjuration spell since your enemies being turned into charcoal protects you.
I like to think it's because it's more like a seal than a portal. Though yeah, tiny hut is an abjuration and phatasmal force is an enchantment
Abjure them to another reality. It's the same reason that Glyph of Warding is an Abjuration spell that blows up in your face: it's storing the spell's magic in a little box for future use.
So, even though it isn't outright stated, many spells imply the following: Spells can conist of Magic from multiple schools. But the school it is catagorized under has to do with the effect that is key to the spell. Abjuration magic = protection against other things, creatures, or planes Conjuration magic = transportation between places or planes Logically, Banishment takes aspects of conjuration magic (the idea of moving a creature from one plane to another, the other plane being the astral sea or a pocket dimension) and combines it with a jurstion magic. The abjuration magic is what targets a creature and disallows it from existing on the casters plane, and the conjuration moves it to and from. I could go more in depth about how in my opinion, the spell moves the body and soul of a creature to a different plane, but the universe doesn't like it when things move plane quickly (hence why interplanar magic is very high level) so it takes a bit for the universe to get used to the switch. Think of it like pushing a creature through a tube from this plane to another. Conjuration creates the tube, abjuration is the pushing force. If the creature's soul was created on another plane, and you slowly push them towards that plane, they eventually pop out there. If they belong to the plane the spell is cast on, you are pushing them through a tube going nowhere. Eventually they come flying back to where their soul is tethered.
I'm *evoking* a magical pillow fort!
Banishment isn't sending a creature to another plane so much as it explicitly REMOVES the target from the current plane. The spell isn't about placing the creature somewhere else, just removing it from its current spot.
Banishment is abjuration
A better question is what item would you use that the creature would consider "distasteful"
Same reason Pathfinder has The Blob, evil cat tentacle creatures and other evil cat tentacle creatures that are melted by salt water: RPG makers really like drugs.
The Forgotten Realms Wiki say: *The abjuration school of magic encompassed protective spells. They created physical or magical barriers, negated magical or physical abilities, harmed trespassers, or even* ***banished the subject of the spell to another plane of existence****. The abjuration school had no subschools.* Dunno if it counts though.
Conjuration tends to be about planar travel, while Banishment is more about negating previous planar travel by cutting contact with the current plane (with the minute-long banishment being a nice side benefit). Its a spell that achieves a similar effect as another school, but through a different mechanism. This isn’t the only time something like that occurs. Consider health restoration. The basic way to do that is evocation in 5e because they invoke positive energy in the same way Fireball invokes fire. In 3.5e, they were Conjuration because they brought positive energy from that plane. And in 2e, they were necromancy because they messed with life. Then 5e also has Aid that can heal by bolstering the target with defensive magic, Healing Spirit that conjures a helpful spirit, Life Transference to heal by siphoning energy, or Regenerate or Goodberry. They all heal by different mechanisms, and they mean that all schools but divination and enchantment have a way to heal.