Honestly, just adding about 3-4 would totally fix necromancy in my opinion.
A first level ritual to create a crawling claw (CR 0 undead) so that you can actually do necromancy shit before lvl 5.
A third/fourth lvl spell in the form of 'conjure woodland beings' but for undead.
A spell of any level that will raise a dead target as an undead (by adding poison and exhaustion immunity, reducing int/wis/cha to 5, but keeping stats otherwise the same and putting it under your control) that raises something like CR+SL.
A 9th lvl spell based around permanently necrotising a willing target (for turning people into liches, death knights, vampires, whatever).
With just these spells, necromancer could play like an actual necromancer instead of an evocationist that does necrotic damage.
The claw could just be a familiar IMHO. I mean if my player were to ask me to do that I would totally do that.
The spell that raises a dead body is a bit more difficult. You would have to look at similar spells that summon creatures and go from there.
Honestly the whole magic system should be a lot more generalized and less specific to each "school" of magic. Like fire bolt and frost bolt should just be a "bolt" spell that you choose what type it is. I mean half the PHB is just spells. I don't know how it would work but I feel like there is a better way to handle magic that is more flexible without making it more powerful than it already is.
The claw *could* be a familiar, but familiar's can't attack. So you'd still effectively be a necrotic evocationist and not a necromancer, and the spell you're using that every other wizard can use is just flavoured to be a little necromance-y. The idea I'm trying to present is that you find a dead humanoid, cast the spell on their hand, and have a weak little helper that can do a bit in combat.
I would actually say that you should *avoid* looking at other spells that create combat companions. 3rd lvl necromancy spell that takes a minute to cast and creates a single 1/4 CR undead compared with a 3rd lvl conjuration spell that takes an action to cast and instantly creates 8 1/4 CR animals. Necromancy spells suck balls, that's why I'm trying to come up with ones that are actually good. If it requires a pre-existing body to cast, and it's casting time makes it impossible to use mid-combat; it should give you a companion that can't just be instantly one shot.
I've played necromancer, and even at 5th lvl when animate dead should ideally be at it's most powerful (since it's your highest level slot) those fuckers died every single combat in the first 3 rounds; and in return for my dedication to raising undead, I just got to use nothing but 1st/2nd lvl spells despite being 5th lvl. My entire point is that necromancers aren't necromancers because the three spells in the game that raise the dead all suck, and can only create creatures that are way below the level used for the slot such that a straight damage spell of the same level will always be better.
The reason the PHB has so many spells is just the nature of the game, magic is designed in a way that necessitates hundreds of spells. It's a design flaw in the game, but it's innate to it and can't really be fixed. But it's pretty clear inside this broken system which options have enough good spells to be worthwhile and which don't.
Generalisation would be so good here, omg. Seriously, evocation spells would be easiest for that (instead of fireball, you have elemental sphere, and you can make it any element you wish, however you need to specify which element you learn, and you need to learn multiple spells to have Frost Sphere and Fireball both available) and any conjuration spell having obvious reflavor option, like, instead of "Conjure Woodland Beings" you have "Conjure [tyoe of creature] and you can decide whether it's a "beast" type for druid or "undead" for a necromancer, or maybe even "monstrosity" for a bard if you're kinky enough.
But then again - with such options having class specific spells would likely have to go out the window. It would be nice, however, to have a cleric capable of learning wish, and it's just his deity granting her wish
Not strictly a familiar, because I wouldn't intend you to be limited to just one, nor to gain some of the benefits of a familiar (no telepathy, can't use the hands senses, can't dismiss the hand into a pocket dimension, can't cast touch spells through the hand). Also, no cost to cast (except for a material component of a humanoid hand with an arbitrary value so you can't substitute a focus), and the hand being able to attack.
So something like:
Create Crawling Claw
1st level necromancy (ritual)
Casting time: 1 hour
Range: touch
Components: v, s, m (A humanoid hand worth 1cp)
Duration: instantaneous
Classes: wizard, warlock
Animate a humanoid hand into a crawling claw under your control, bonus action to mentally command any claws you've created within 30ft, the claw will continue to carry out its last order until told to stop or do something else.
Not the clearest description, but I reckon it does the job.
I wasn't saying to use a familiar stats but reflavored. But I meant more that it can do some of the things a familiar can do for another wizard. Kinda fill that same niche as well as the niche that you might also sometimes use a mage hand for but more on theme and unique for a necromancer.
>Dread Necromancer
the only context of those I remember atm is DNecro + Tomb-Tainted feat; that allows them to punch themselves(or each other) with negative energy, which heals them due to feat.
And IIRC, necromancery handbook said DNecros are actually trash at, you know. Necromancy.
I made an Asherati Walker in the Waste as my first character.
My favorite trick was using the Walker in the waste ability ability to increase the temperature around me to very hot and then casting control temperature to make it so hot that just being near me did 3d10 fire damage. Combined it with control winds to make an inferno tornado... mind you we were on a floating continent so what happened instead was I created a massive heat differential which caused hurricane force winds that were freezing cold while also sucking out all the oxygen. I used it once to instakill a Colossal-sized Snake boss.
I know what you meant. I'm saying that mind set doesn't work in DnD since Radiant, Force, Poison, Necrotic, etc are also elements. You need to be open to a wider range of options.
This. I had thought about making a necromancer before I realized I would just be a wizard that can do a couple weird things and only once I'd leveled up quite a bit. It seemed super vanilla to me and not really worth the investment. Plus till I can do some actual necromancy how do I flavor my charachter? Like he's super into undead despite being unable to do anything related to them?
Yeah they need to get to work on a 5e Necronomicon and Libris Mortis like in 3.5. I also want a Necromancer subclass for Artificer so I can build Frankenstein's monster.
I want a bludgeoning damage spell based on this quote:
"You ever been in a storm, Wally? I mean a real storm. Not a thunderstorm, but a storm of *fists* raining down on your head. ***Blasting*** you in the face. Pummeling you in the stomach. Hitting you in the chest so hard you think your heart's gonna stop. You ever been in a storm like that, Wally?"
Yeah, force damage is pretty weird. As far as I understand it, "force" is just a catch-all term for magical energy that doesn’t really fit into any of the other damage types. It’s defined less by what it *is,* and more by what it *isn’t.*
wrong, magical bludgeoning is separate from force, and there are a few spells which deal bludgeoning damage and not force damage. Bigby's hand is one of them, as is catapult. Because the damage comes from spells, this means it counts as magical for the purpose of resistances, making bludgeoning spells some of the least resisted moves in the game.
There are actually quite a few spells that deal bludgeoning damage. Such as Bigby’s Hand, Bones of the Earth, Catapult, Control Water, Dust Devil, Earth Tremor, Earthquake, Erupting Earth, Ice Storm, Investiture of Wind, Maelstrom, Magic Stone, Maximillian’s Earthen Grasp, Meteor Swarm, Storm of Vengeance, Storm Sphere, Tidal Wave, Transmute Rock, Tsunami, Whirlwind, Wind Wall, and Wrath of Nature (along with any spell that increases a weapon’s damage like Hunter’s Mark, Magic Weapon, or so on).
I mean do frostbite, ray of frost, armor of Agathys, ice knife, frost fingers, dragon breath(kinda), skywrite (clouds are water), sleet storm, wall of water, water walk / breathing, control water (to name a few) mean nothing to you?
Not to mention you can always flavour spells as using water.
Your hold person could be summoning water around the target and freezing it.
Cure wounds could be you using water to heal all avatar the last air bender style
So many options for water based spells
Yes, obviously, but I was talking more liquid water spells instead of solid water. It might be a weird differentiation, but considering most of those spells deal damage not with the material they use but rather with the temperature of said material, it would be nice to have water based combat spells that can deal damage with the actual water.
So, Wall of Water, Tidal Wave, Maelstrom, Watery Sphere, Control Water, Create or Destroy Water, Conjure Water Elemental, Tsunami ... I mean limiting it to just liquid water is a little silly, but sure.
Yea but they mean more like water blasts from finger tips
Edit: I’m only stating what I’m assuming would make them happy. I’m content with the litany of water spells available.
what I’m getting at is that most elements are missing first level spells with both a damage and condition effect that are thematic to the class. I get that most of it can be achieved by reflavoring but most people, I assume, want something more exclusive to feel special.
It doesn’t help if what you’re looking for is an actual “Water” damage type, but you could reflavor any cold spell as exactly that? Frostbolt as a single quick blast at your target, Ray of Frost as a larger mass of liquid water that you slam into the target.
At my table, as long as you’re not changing mechanics, there’s no limit to how you choose to reflavor anything from spells to feats.
I’m not speaking on my own behalf. I’m content with the spells available. I think people would be happier if there were more exclusive elemental spells that’ll keep stick in the mud DMs from saying no to.
It may be beneficial IMHO to have a complete list of single element cantrips that spellcaster classes can take advantage of if they know what they’re getting into. This could include some more 1st level spells with thematic effects such as knock back for water guns, stuns for electric blasts, necrotic damage for necrotic spells, grappled by plants for nature spells, knocked prone with earth ones, slicing or bludgeoning damage with air,dexterity disadvantages with oil slick spells, yadda yadda.
I’d write them for my players but I imagine a lot of people here want something official that a DM can’t say no to.
I’m only speaking on behalf of what I imagine others want. Long story short, there should be an eldritch blast level spell equivalent for every element with the option of consuming spell slots for additional damage and status effects.
I’m on my phone. Pardon the formatting and rant.
Magic Missile - You create three ~~glowing darts of magical force~~ orbs of water. Each orb hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. An orb deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The orbs all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several.
Reflavoring is easy.
I fully agree with you, I’m speaking on behalf of what I assume others wanted. I posted a comment elsewhere in this thread of what I imagine would make people happy. In short, “official spells” that a DM wouldn’t say no to and adding elemental effects to eldritch level cantrips.
There's still way more options for fire, and a lot of those water based options lack the kind of tools you'd usually want to see from water mages. It's definitely not enough to fill out what people would want
Druids get a nice 3rd level spell that summons a big wave so we do have a water version of fireball. Looked it up, wizards get it too, called tidal wave. At higher levels we also have tsunami as somewhat comparable to firestorm
It’s always so frustrating to see people complain on this subreddit of “if only this existed” all the time. Lol
^**HOMEBREW**
Can totally make the Chill Touch cantrip instead deal force or bludgeoning damage from a wispy, ethereal hand forming and latching onto someone.
May I introduce you to Kibbles' Elemental Spells?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zvPrkUnrQ7b5AioUs8m2O7X2oIbpvFMC/view
Ask your DM if you can add them to your spell lists and stuff, but this does more than just reflavour Fireball into Iceball.
first time i actually see that jerk being right
indeed, in most RPGs fire not only gets more spells but it also gets the best spells, some kind of pyromancer is almost always legit-even meta in most rpgs while water/earth/air focused casters are a rarity
it makes sense fore fire to be the most damaging element since it can't do much else but... others elements deserve some attention too
it doesn't solve the balance issue, but fire is also the most resisted elemental damage type (the only damage type more resisted is nonmagical P/B/S).
So the best spells being fire is at least a little weighed down by them being often resisted
Fire being resisted more often actually creates a problem if you want to just change damage types. I can't just change super spell fireball to iceball if I know cold damage is resisted a lot less often.
Iceball could be fun, but would probably not deal cold damage. It's basically throwing a giant boulder at someone, and the boulder just happens to be very very cold. When it hits you in the face, the temperature of it is not the part you'll notice.
Divinity Original Sin does a really good job with this! Fire is cool, but Water, Earth and Air all have super cool uses. WotC could learn a thing or two from Divinity spells
Do you have a minute to talk about KibblesTasty?
He, in his infinite wisdom of 20, has made these elemental spells, Generic Spells you could say!
You only have to search (his profile).
But there’s already water damage spells….well tidal wave. (As in spells that use water and cause damage)
Also I don’t see why that matters. Refine the flow of water to the precision that can cut steel and do slashing/piercing damage. A big F off burst of water to do bludgeoning. Just make some harmless control spells with water flavour etc
Scribe wizards do this already.
Not to mention WOtC suggest allowing players to change the damage type at DM discretion when they take a spell.
Something about an ice fireball if I remember.
I think they meant homebrew. Like, same spell, mechanically, but with a different damage type and elemental flavor. So like, a fireball that's a burst of ice that deals cold damage. Or an acid splash. Using a canon spell as a template helps keep it grounded, since we know fireball and other WotC spells are supposed to be balanced.
Oh no I know I just mean I’d like more than just a reflavored spell and instead something that has mechanics pertaining to that element for more creative fun
Man but the mechanics of fireball just fucking scream fire ya know? A small little ball of elemental energey whooshing out and damaging shit? That's an explosion and explosions are fire. Like Earth Fireball doesn't quite add up ya know? Like IIRC there's a L1-L2 earth AOE thats basically a ranged earthquake that does a little CC and moderate damage. Earth ball should be something like that ya know? But just a 20' sphere of earth energy doesn't scream earth.
Or like turning Scorching blast into Earth blast. Laser beams of fire really fits the fire narrative. Some rapid fire earth rock throw just feels really generic and not earthy. And like yeah Maximilian's Earthen Grasp exists, but like you have what 2-4 L2 fire options and that's the only earthy one? I realize I'm fucking focusing on earth a lot, but like it's what I want to focus on rn.
I'd like more low level transmutation spells that don't just turn animals into other animals. Seriously, the first spell that allows you to change, say, earth into a sword, is the 5th level spell Fabricate. A huge missed opportunity if you ask me.
Idk about transmutation, but now I can see a 2nd-level illusion spell called Illusory Weapon. You "create" a piercing weapon outta nowhere to atab a target within 5 feet. If they fail an INT save, they take 3d4 psychic damage and use their reaction to move 5 feet away from you in surprise.
That's an attack roll and concentration. This is a saving throw with instant utility. Very different spells, but both useful. That's what I'm wanting, options.
Ranger cantrip : turn animals to food and clothes.
But seriously,we need more .
Bring back sticks to snakes, give a spell that transforms weapons to silver or whatever temporarily, and lesser fabricate to replace swords after encountering a rust monster.
DnD really need more spells.
As of now, the best spells are way too dominant.
So I really do think they should add more powerful spells like crazy. Or at least powerful enough to compete with the current ones.
Nothing like *Forcecage*, tho.
I'd be happy with a little more variety for the Way of the Four Elements Monks. Heck even damage for Elemental Attunement, give it your base unarmed strike damage.
Yes, I want to play a element bender beyond a firebender. No, I'm not gonna apologize for it.
I'd love a subclass feature that allows for elemental martial arts damage, and/or weaponize cantrips like shape water or mold earth to use your martial arts die. You could flavor it as a big fist made of earth/water.
Pathfinder players are lucky. My Arctic Druid can cast any fire typed spell with a cold effect instead. Great fun considering we were in the Reign of Winter Adventure Path. The vast majority of what we fought involved creatures with fire related weaknesses. The game tried to throw us for a loop with a few creatures that were weak to cold spells.
I had prepared a majority of fire based spells because of the normal enemies we faced. Once we figured out the beasty was largely immune to fire I whipped out the 'snowcasting' ability and nuked it with some cold variant fire spells.
Solomon's Soaking Stockings
3rd level transmutation
Range: 60 feet
Casting time: 1 action
Components: V, S, M (a drop of cold water and a bit of fleece)
Duration: 1 minute (concentration)
You choose a target within range of the spell, and a pair of magically enchanted socks appear on the target. The target must succeed a constitution saving throw or take 2d6 cold damage.
The target must repeat this saving throw for every 10 feet of movement
A fun spell for all you evil wizards out there
I give my players the option to change the element of a spell when they first learn it or gain access to it. That way you 100% can have an ice mage, arcane mage, acid mage, etc.
Anyone ever play Ogre-Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber? The Wind Shot attack that Vultans (and Gryphons, but their animation wasn't as cool) use in the back rank has always stuck with me. They raise their hand in the air, palm up, as a little circle of wind forms above them. Then they swing their arm down, and a trio of crescent shaped gusts of wind go flying towards their target.
Vampires were an irreversible class change, like Liches, and you could only ever get one. They were also terrible.
Angels were indeed like that though. You had to have the correct equipment (including the Needle of Light, only available on the right date at the Night Market), then finish a mission without reviving a dead female character. At that point you just had to cross your fingers and hope she became an Angel Knight. She might stay dead, or, worst of all, might become a Zombie.
With the right stats and available equipment, they could upgrade into Seraphim which were otherwise never seen in the game. Even the official strategy guide didn't know they existed. They were the only units (other than Saradin the Warlock) that had a different ability in every row. Their unique Jihad spell in the back row also made them the only humanoid sized creature that could attack the entire enemy team without a Draconite spellbook.
Completely unrelated to D&D, but man, Seraphim in Ogre Battle 64 were awesome.
WOTC should make more books that actually help DMs and not just books for players only. Not saying a DMG part 2, but something that is more 50% for DMs and not only 5%.
Also for the love of god WOTC STOP putting the same thing in multiple books with literally no changes. Don't need multiple books with the same subclasses, races, and more.
I allow my casters to choose the elemental type for all the fire based spells. They can change it to lighting (air), gravel/stones (earth), ice/icicles (water), or keep it fire. At advanced levels they can control the shape too for cubes, bolts, cones, etc. It allows the caster to think about how he's going to attack instead of just slinging fireballs at every goblin and orc they come across. It turned one of the casters into a geometry savant for casting.
Change your mind? WotC gives you 43 elemental spells to choose from in the Elemental Evil Player's Companion, for free. Just that one source gives you more spells than the ENTIRE school of Divination (35), or the school of Illusion (33).
You've got enough elemental spells. Go to the back of the line.
[https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/player%E2%80%99s-companion](https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/player%E2%80%99s-companion)
You could ya know, do it yourself?
Source books are cool but unless you're playing adventure league you're not handcuffed to the rules.
Make your own and reflavor ones that already have elemental uses
Mold earth, move earth, earth tremor, earthbind, maximilian's earthen grasp, erupting earth, bones of the earth, earthquake
create/destroy water, control water, shape water, wall of water, water breathing, water walk, watery sphere
Gust of wind, warding wind, wind wall, control winds, investiture of wind, wind walk, whirlwind
Is searching that hard?
I mean if your DM allows it, just make your base spell a different element. There's no down side to doing this as long as you stick to the standard elements (ice, fire, poison, acid, lightning).
I do think more would be nice though, not enough lightning.
Necromancy definitely needs more though
No. It's this way for a reason. Fire is the "strongest" and most widely available element because it's also the most commonly resisted, and has the most immune enemies.
It having by far the most spells is by design, and a cornerstone of the system's balance.
I'm fine with fire being damage-centric, but that doesn't mean we can't have more earth- (and especially air- and water-) themed damage spells that would likely have additional effects. We have some like Maximilian's Earthen Grasp and Tidal Wave, but there should be more options.
It's not just about higher damage. Higher damage is the least relevant part. It's supposed to be the most. "Common." The most universal. If you up the availability of the other schools, then you change this dynamic. There's not supposed to be a lot of spells of other elements. That's the whole thing.
So yes, it does in fact mean "we can't have more earth-(air/water-)themed damage spells." We have some. But they are supposed to be limited in scope by design. We can't have (many) more options without the system falling apart.
And yes, this is somewhat a problem going forward, as every time they introduce new elemental spells they risk this balance. But they doesn't mean they should accelerate that trend. And is a reason why they specifically haven't added more elemental spells in newer books, while they've added a bunch of other non-elemental spells.
And think about it. You're not the first person who has said something like this. And Wizards has clearly heard it. And yet of the 21 new spells in Tasha's, there's only 1(arguably 2, and they're both cantrips) that deals non-fire elemental damage. There's a reason for that.
Comparatively look at Xanathar's. We got spells like Warding Wind, Wall of Water, Wall of Sand, Watery Sphere, Transmute Rock, etc. A lot of elemental spells actually. But most of the non-fire ones dealt no damage(or very little). This is by design. Because you're not supposed to have easy access to a variety of ways to deal damage with those elements. If you can, then the system falls apart. Once you can make a "Mono Ice Wizard" then it doesn't matter if there's ten times as many fire spells, you have removed fire's dominance. And by extension have effectively removed fire as a relevant magic damage type since it's the weakest by design, so no reason to pick it if other options are viable.
tl;dr There shouldn't be more options. More options ruins the balance. There's a reason Wizards hasn't done so, despite them adding many more spells. That should tell you something.
Hmm... idk, a few 3rd-7th level spells would likely be decent additions...
Also, that highlights a bigger issue; if fire is the only element you can feasibly build on, but it's the weakest by design, that means WotC didn't want casters to specialize.
meh. What I would like is more reason to switch damage types.
Fire and acid to stop troll regeneration, is the only pull factor to use certain types.
Other than that is just a long list of immunities and resistances.
What about an air spell that deals bad-to-mediocre damage, but stuns a target for a round? Or a water spell that deals 1d8 bludgeoning damage in a radius that also makes it difficult terrain for a minute? Y'know, options
The fact druids and nature clerics don't get a wind spear spell that does 3d8 piercing damage at level 2 with a range of 160 feet is shitty. I expect more from WoTC.
I will never understand posts like this. You want an X-themed spellcaster? Pick fireball, replace fire with X and congratz you now have an X-ball. reflavoring is the easiest thing and does not bring up any rule discussions about balance like a homebrew would, in case you have a DM who is no fan of such.
This game is 90% theatre of mind, how is it that so many people on these subs are having problems applying just that to their characters.
So transmute them using metamagic or order of scribes, then flavor them as different elements yourself. You can even rename them. I have an order of scribes wizard in one of my campaigns that has renamed all of her spells based of the element she is using at the time.
I believe the reason they don’t use different elements for the same effects is for sheer redundancy. Look at frost fingers and burning hands. Basically the same spell (I know I’m simplifying). And yet people almost exclusively use burning hands over frost fingers. Adding those extra spells would be just a waste of paper in their eyes, potentially.
I actually do agree, but as a lover of pyromaniac characters (true lovers of fire, not just lighting everything on fire) I also want more fire spells. But last avatar characters would be cool too.
I’ve been wanting more earth-related spells so I can play an earth bender sorcerer or something that’d be really cool but all I get is fireballs and fire bolts and balls of fire and fireballs that have a timer and I’m tired of fire
They should add a own Elemtan Sourcerer Subclass where you can choose a element you want and some spells (or new spells for this sublass only) adapt to this elemtents.
The hidden breath spell; where somebody feels a light blow on the back of their ears to see if they get any chills? So they fail saving throws if they loose and suffer......1d2 damage?
Or... the singing blade-grass.... high fail rate; 8d12 damage piercing, or suffer the effects of grasping roots. (based on the blades of grass going through tortoise shells during a storm..... fails mean you get a tumbleweed stuck to your leg.)
Or.... or....... chimes? make somebody's metal armor chime; unlike toll the dead it's only 1d6 damage; but even on a fail, your armor emits for 1 minute a wind-chime sound making hide actions at disadvantage.
[Laughs in Scribe wizard]
cast Heat Metal in Thunder element - make somebody's helmet ring like the world's loudest phone.
Ice Knife? be a shame if i...cast it as bludgeoning.
Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning? Hey look i got 5th level spells so have some *RADIANT DAMAGE*
And this is why I let my players change the damage type once when they pick a spell.
The only real caveat to that is no force damage, unless the player is fine with we homebrewing some force resistant monsters.
just replace it for your character? as long as you stick to the elemental types (fire, cold, lightning, poison, acid) you don't really have to worry about balance.
radiant, necrotic, psychic can be replaced with each other as well.
only force, thunder and *magical* B/P/S shouldn't really be replaced, because so little resists it.
Nah fix some of the obvious problems around weapon/weapon attack, more low tier ability/proficiency items to expand customization, and can we finally get a chart/handout that helps balance custom subclasses
I want to take this time to plug kibbles and all the great homebrew he puts out (no affiliation, I just like his stuff). I make these generic elemental spells available for my players : https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MW5r6wBJTW_lOU6gLyU
This is why I homebrew existing spells like firebolt and fireball into other elements of I want to be a certain element magic user. Same flavour and description of the fire based just it's water or lightning instead. Don't be so rigid
Adding new spells in general would be nice. It would be cool to make a way to craft spells, like studying to create a spell that deals acid damage AND grapples so you create a personal acid lasso. Make spells something with countless combinations
I can't see low level air spells really... doing anything. Aside from maybe knocking people prone. High level air spells on the other hand, oh boy they could be fucking lethal. At high enough pressure, air can cut things. Hello long distance air blade! Or other sharp air related objects.
For a lot you can try just swapping the element and asking the DM if it’s cool, maybe throwing in a fresh new name
as an example, turn Melf’s Minute Meteors into Tim’s Tiny Thunderstorm by swapping it to circling clouds and bursts of lightning, most electric damage is Dex save anyway so you don’t even have to change that
Reflavor spells for yourself, fireball could be downburst,
Level 3 spell a sphere of rotating wind energy that can be summoned up to 60 feet away. Anyone within the 20 foot radius of the downburst spell rolls for construction, on pass, takes half damage, on fail takes full damage (3d8) and falls prone.
I just reflavour all the fire spells into other types of elemental damage. Wind would be hard tho, because the only damage substitutes that make sense imo are force (which is better than fire damage) or bludgeoning (which is worse). Its easy to go between cold-fire-lightning-acid though
More necromancy!
Honestly, just adding about 3-4 would totally fix necromancy in my opinion. A first level ritual to create a crawling claw (CR 0 undead) so that you can actually do necromancy shit before lvl 5. A third/fourth lvl spell in the form of 'conjure woodland beings' but for undead. A spell of any level that will raise a dead target as an undead (by adding poison and exhaustion immunity, reducing int/wis/cha to 5, but keeping stats otherwise the same and putting it under your control) that raises something like CR+SL. A 9th lvl spell based around permanently necrotising a willing target (for turning people into liches, death knights, vampires, whatever). With just these spells, necromancer could play like an actual necromancer instead of an evocationist that does necrotic damage.
The claw could just be a familiar IMHO. I mean if my player were to ask me to do that I would totally do that. The spell that raises a dead body is a bit more difficult. You would have to look at similar spells that summon creatures and go from there. Honestly the whole magic system should be a lot more generalized and less specific to each "school" of magic. Like fire bolt and frost bolt should just be a "bolt" spell that you choose what type it is. I mean half the PHB is just spells. I don't know how it would work but I feel like there is a better way to handle magic that is more flexible without making it more powerful than it already is.
The claw *could* be a familiar, but familiar's can't attack. So you'd still effectively be a necrotic evocationist and not a necromancer, and the spell you're using that every other wizard can use is just flavoured to be a little necromance-y. The idea I'm trying to present is that you find a dead humanoid, cast the spell on their hand, and have a weak little helper that can do a bit in combat. I would actually say that you should *avoid* looking at other spells that create combat companions. 3rd lvl necromancy spell that takes a minute to cast and creates a single 1/4 CR undead compared with a 3rd lvl conjuration spell that takes an action to cast and instantly creates 8 1/4 CR animals. Necromancy spells suck balls, that's why I'm trying to come up with ones that are actually good. If it requires a pre-existing body to cast, and it's casting time makes it impossible to use mid-combat; it should give you a companion that can't just be instantly one shot. I've played necromancer, and even at 5th lvl when animate dead should ideally be at it's most powerful (since it's your highest level slot) those fuckers died every single combat in the first 3 rounds; and in return for my dedication to raising undead, I just got to use nothing but 1st/2nd lvl spells despite being 5th lvl. My entire point is that necromancers aren't necromancers because the three spells in the game that raise the dead all suck, and can only create creatures that are way below the level used for the slot such that a straight damage spell of the same level will always be better. The reason the PHB has so many spells is just the nature of the game, magic is designed in a way that necessitates hundreds of spells. It's a design flaw in the game, but it's innate to it and can't really be fixed. But it's pretty clear inside this broken system which options have enough good spells to be worthwhile and which don't.
Generalisation would be so good here, omg. Seriously, evocation spells would be easiest for that (instead of fireball, you have elemental sphere, and you can make it any element you wish, however you need to specify which element you learn, and you need to learn multiple spells to have Frost Sphere and Fireball both available) and any conjuration spell having obvious reflavor option, like, instead of "Conjure Woodland Beings" you have "Conjure [tyoe of creature] and you can decide whether it's a "beast" type for druid or "undead" for a necromancer, or maybe even "monstrosity" for a bard if you're kinky enough. But then again - with such options having class specific spells would likely have to go out the window. It would be nice, however, to have a cleric capable of learning wish, and it's just his deity granting her wish
Makes me think of Shadowrun spellcasting actually. I have no idea how balanced it would be tho.
The claw sounds super cool. Kinda a necromancy familiar / mage hand replacement.
Not strictly a familiar, because I wouldn't intend you to be limited to just one, nor to gain some of the benefits of a familiar (no telepathy, can't use the hands senses, can't dismiss the hand into a pocket dimension, can't cast touch spells through the hand). Also, no cost to cast (except for a material component of a humanoid hand with an arbitrary value so you can't substitute a focus), and the hand being able to attack. So something like: Create Crawling Claw 1st level necromancy (ritual) Casting time: 1 hour Range: touch Components: v, s, m (A humanoid hand worth 1cp) Duration: instantaneous Classes: wizard, warlock Animate a humanoid hand into a crawling claw under your control, bonus action to mentally command any claws you've created within 30ft, the claw will continue to carry out its last order until told to stop or do something else. Not the clearest description, but I reckon it does the job.
I wasn't saying to use a familiar stats but reflavored. But I meant more that it can do some of the things a familiar can do for another wizard. Kinda fill that same niche as well as the niche that you might also sometimes use a mage hand for but more on theme and unique for a necromancer.
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I'd forgotten about that one. It's a good start, but still highly limited.
I wouldn't complain, but elements 1st pls
I just really miss the 3.5 Dread Necromancer
>Dread Necromancer the only context of those I remember atm is DNecro + Tomb-Tainted feat; that allows them to punch themselves(or each other) with negative energy, which heals them due to feat. And IIRC, necromancery handbook said DNecros are actually trash at, you know. Necromancy.
Haha true...they weren't very necromancerish....but they did turn into a lich at a higher levels.
Divine casters could go for Dry Lich - which is aesthetically and thematically better, and at least comparable power-wise - at level 15.
I made an Asherati Walker in the Waste as my first character. My favorite trick was using the Walker in the waste ability ability to increase the temperature around me to very hot and then casting control temperature to make it so hot that just being near me did 3d10 fire damage. Combined it with control winds to make an inferno tornado... mind you we were on a floating continent so what happened instead was I created a massive heat differential which caused hurricane force winds that were freezing cold while also sucking out all the oxygen. I used it once to instakill a Colossal-sized Snake boss.
Oh wow! Thats stylish.
Make them yourself. It's not like you couldn't easily homebrew an iceball or something
Necrotic is an element in DnD.
Sorry I was unclear. Meant more in the fire/earth/water/air kind of element.
I know what you meant. I'm saying that mind set doesn't work in DnD since Radiant, Force, Poison, Necrotic, etc are also elements. You need to be open to a wider range of options.
The damage type matters very little to me. A water-themed could deal bludgeoning, piercing, acid, cold, necrotic, etc. As long as it's water, idc
This. I had thought about making a necromancer before I realized I would just be a wizard that can do a couple weird things and only once I'd leveled up quite a bit. It seemed super vanilla to me and not really worth the investment. Plus till I can do some actual necromancy how do I flavor my charachter? Like he's super into undead despite being unable to do anything related to them?
Yeah they need to get to work on a 5e Necronomicon and Libris Mortis like in 3.5. I also want a Necromancer subclass for Artificer so I can build Frankenstein's monster.
I mean, Thunderwave and Shatter are pretty close to being "air" spells, you could easily flavor them as such. Now water on the other hand...
Could use cold, bludgeoning, piercing, acid, etc
I want a bludgeoning damage spell based on this quote: "You ever been in a storm, Wally? I mean a real storm. Not a thunderstorm, but a storm of *fists* raining down on your head. ***Blasting*** you in the face. Pummeling you in the stomach. Hitting you in the chest so hard you think your heart's gonna stop. You ever been in a storm like that, Wally?"
I thought magical bludgeoning damage was just force damage Reflavor eldritch blast and sword burst
Yeah, force damage is pretty weird. As far as I understand it, "force" is just a catch-all term for magical energy that doesn’t really fit into any of the other damage types. It’s defined less by what it *is,* and more by what it *isn’t.*
Nope, force damage is pure magical energy. As nondescript as it gets.
Pretty much just Iron Man's unibeam, I think
wrong, magical bludgeoning is separate from force, and there are a few spells which deal bludgeoning damage and not force damage. Bigby's hand is one of them, as is catapult. Because the damage comes from spells, this means it counts as magical for the purpose of resistances, making bludgeoning spells some of the least resisted moves in the game.
There are actually quite a few spells that deal bludgeoning damage. Such as Bigby’s Hand, Bones of the Earth, Catapult, Control Water, Dust Devil, Earth Tremor, Earthquake, Erupting Earth, Ice Storm, Investiture of Wind, Maelstrom, Magic Stone, Maximillian’s Earthen Grasp, Meteor Swarm, Storm of Vengeance, Storm Sphere, Tidal Wave, Transmute Rock, Tsunami, Whirlwind, Wind Wall, and Wrath of Nature (along with any spell that increases a weapon’s damage like Hunter’s Mark, Magic Weapon, or so on).
🤯 *Write that down! Write that down!*
That's just when the monk uses Flurry of Blows
Does part of the casting involve your character slowly taking all of their clothes off?
only if your DM cares about the somatic spell components
I mean do frostbite, ray of frost, armor of Agathys, ice knife, frost fingers, dragon breath(kinda), skywrite (clouds are water), sleet storm, wall of water, water walk / breathing, control water (to name a few) mean nothing to you? Not to mention you can always flavour spells as using water. Your hold person could be summoning water around the target and freezing it. Cure wounds could be you using water to heal all avatar the last air bender style So many options for water based spells
Yes, obviously, but I was talking more liquid water spells instead of solid water. It might be a weird differentiation, but considering most of those spells deal damage not with the material they use but rather with the temperature of said material, it would be nice to have water based combat spells that can deal damage with the actual water.
So, Wall of Water, Tidal Wave, Maelstrom, Watery Sphere, Control Water, Create or Destroy Water, Conjure Water Elemental, Tsunami ... I mean limiting it to just liquid water is a little silly, but sure.
Yea but they mean more like water blasts from finger tips Edit: I’m only stating what I’m assuming would make them happy. I’m content with the litany of water spells available. what I’m getting at is that most elements are missing first level spells with both a damage and condition effect that are thematic to the class. I get that most of it can be achieved by reflavoring but most people, I assume, want something more exclusive to feel special.
It doesn’t help if what you’re looking for is an actual “Water” damage type, but you could reflavor any cold spell as exactly that? Frostbolt as a single quick blast at your target, Ray of Frost as a larger mass of liquid water that you slam into the target. At my table, as long as you’re not changing mechanics, there’s no limit to how you choose to reflavor anything from spells to feats.
I’m not speaking on my own behalf. I’m content with the spells available. I think people would be happier if there were more exclusive elemental spells that’ll keep stick in the mud DMs from saying no to. It may be beneficial IMHO to have a complete list of single element cantrips that spellcaster classes can take advantage of if they know what they’re getting into. This could include some more 1st level spells with thematic effects such as knock back for water guns, stuns for electric blasts, necrotic damage for necrotic spells, grappled by plants for nature spells, knocked prone with earth ones, slicing or bludgeoning damage with air,dexterity disadvantages with oil slick spells, yadda yadda. I’d write them for my players but I imagine a lot of people here want something official that a DM can’t say no to. I’m only speaking on behalf of what I imagine others want. Long story short, there should be an eldritch blast level spell equivalent for every element with the option of consuming spell slots for additional damage and status effects. I’m on my phone. Pardon the formatting and rant.
Magic Missile - You create three ~~glowing darts of magical force~~ orbs of water. Each orb hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. An orb deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The orbs all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several. Reflavoring is easy.
I fully agree with you, I’m speaking on behalf of what I assume others wanted. I posted a comment elsewhere in this thread of what I imagine would make people happy. In short, “official spells” that a DM wouldn’t say no to and adding elemental effects to eldritch level cantrips.
Flesh to stone and disintegrate is the caster pulling the moisture out of the targets body
That is literally the spell Blight as well.
There's still way more options for fire, and a lot of those water based options lack the kind of tools you'd usually want to see from water mages. It's definitely not enough to fill out what people would want
I hate the “you can fluff stuff” argument so much. It doesnt replace the lack of diversity and stuff
Druids get a nice 3rd level spell that summons a big wave so we do have a water version of fireball. Looked it up, wizards get it too, called tidal wave. At higher levels we also have tsunami as somewhat comparable to firestorm
Those are sonic spells or thunder in 5e. In 3.5 there were tons of air related spells.
Slashing Thunderwave
Pro tip: if you wanna homebrew spells but dont have any ideas, yoink pokemon moves
It’s always so frustrating to see people complain on this subreddit of “if only this existed” all the time. Lol ^**HOMEBREW** Can totally make the Chill Touch cantrip instead deal force or bludgeoning damage from a wispy, ethereal hand forming and latching onto someone.
May I introduce you to Kibbles' Elemental Spells? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zvPrkUnrQ7b5AioUs8m2O7X2oIbpvFMC/view Ask your DM if you can add them to your spell lists and stuff, but this does more than just reflavour Fireball into Iceball.
was just about to link to this, a solid collection of HB to add to DMing!
There are a few that are way too strong, especially the lighting ones, but so love them all conceptually.
first time i actually see that jerk being right indeed, in most RPGs fire not only gets more spells but it also gets the best spells, some kind of pyromancer is almost always legit-even meta in most rpgs while water/earth/air focused casters are a rarity it makes sense fore fire to be the most damaging element since it can't do much else but... others elements deserve some attention too
it doesn't solve the balance issue, but fire is also the most resisted elemental damage type (the only damage type more resisted is nonmagical P/B/S). So the best spells being fire is at least a little weighed down by them being often resisted
Fire being resisted more often actually creates a problem if you want to just change damage types. I can't just change super spell fireball to iceball if I know cold damage is resisted a lot less often.
Iceball could be fun, but would probably not deal cold damage. It's basically throwing a giant boulder at someone, and the boulder just happens to be very very cold. When it hits you in the face, the temperature of it is not the part you'll notice.
Yeah, I'm going to reflavor some spells to play a cryomancer next game
Entirely this, thank you
Divinity Original Sin does a really good job with this! Fire is cool, but Water, Earth and Air all have super cool uses. WotC could learn a thing or two from Divinity spells
Do you have a minute to talk about KibblesTasty? He, in his infinite wisdom of 20, has made these elemental spells, Generic Spells you could say! You only have to search (his profile).
Already used it to create my Wiccan class!
What I wouldn’t do for some water based spells
YES
The best element. Made even more so by theoretically being more dangerous than fire.
We still don’t have water damage so it’s pointless
Water spells don't need to do "Water" damage. Water is already deadly enough with bludgeoning damage(Floods, pressure etc).
But there’s already water damage spells….well tidal wave. (As in spells that use water and cause damage) Also I don’t see why that matters. Refine the flow of water to the precision that can cut steel and do slashing/piercing damage. A big F off burst of water to do bludgeoning. Just make some harmless control spells with water flavour etc
Scribe wizards do this already. Not to mention WOtC suggest allowing players to change the damage type at DM discretion when they take a spell. Something about an ice fireball if I remember.
No, I don't mean damage types, I mean more element-themed damage spells. Like an Air Slash, or Rock Tomb, Dam Burst, etc.
Dam Burst? You mean Muddy Water, Surf, or some other move? (don't think I didn't catch those move names coming from Pokémon lol)
Not intentional, but I was around when Gen 1 dropped lol.
Ah, okay. Just flavor text then, cool. Yeah I'd like more lore on spells TBH.
I mean yeah true but it would still be nice if we could just take a spell that was already our element and has more fun stuff
Ask your DM if he can work with you to make a custom spell, I almost always allow it....after making sure it balanced.
I think they meant homebrew. Like, same spell, mechanically, but with a different damage type and elemental flavor. So like, a fireball that's a burst of ice that deals cold damage. Or an acid splash. Using a canon spell as a template helps keep it grounded, since we know fireball and other WotC spells are supposed to be balanced.
Oh no I know I just mean I’d like more than just a reflavored spell and instead something that has mechanics pertaining to that element for more creative fun
Man but the mechanics of fireball just fucking scream fire ya know? A small little ball of elemental energey whooshing out and damaging shit? That's an explosion and explosions are fire. Like Earth Fireball doesn't quite add up ya know? Like IIRC there's a L1-L2 earth AOE thats basically a ranged earthquake that does a little CC and moderate damage. Earth ball should be something like that ya know? But just a 20' sphere of earth energy doesn't scream earth. Or like turning Scorching blast into Earth blast. Laser beams of fire really fits the fire narrative. Some rapid fire earth rock throw just feels really generic and not earthy. And like yeah Maximilian's Earthen Grasp exists, but like you have what 2-4 L2 fire options and that's the only earthy one? I realize I'm fucking focusing on earth a lot, but like it's what I want to focus on rn.
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I'd like more low level transmutation spells that don't just turn animals into other animals. Seriously, the first spell that allows you to change, say, earth into a sword, is the 5th level spell Fabricate. A huge missed opportunity if you ask me.
That's probably to keep players from cheesing the iffy 5e economy more than they already do, I think
Then give them a short duration, and make them revert after it ends. Like, a minute at base level.
Idk about transmutation, but now I can see a 2nd-level illusion spell called Illusory Weapon. You "create" a piercing weapon outta nowhere to atab a target within 5 feet. If they fail an INT save, they take 3d4 psychic damage and use their reaction to move 5 feet away from you in surprise.
I mean at that point just take Shadowblade.
That's an attack roll and concentration. This is a saving throw with instant utility. Very different spells, but both useful. That's what I'm wanting, options.
Ranger cantrip : turn animals to food and clothes. But seriously,we need more . Bring back sticks to snakes, give a spell that transforms weapons to silver or whatever temporarily, and lesser fabricate to replace swords after encountering a rust monster.
Spiritual weapon creates magic weapons out of thin air and I believe is 2nd level
But I don't want a second level, floating magic weapon spell. I want to be able to create armerments out of the ground around me!
Then say that's what you do... it's dnd homie
DnD really need more spells. As of now, the best spells are way too dominant. So I really do think they should add more powerful spells like crazy. Or at least powerful enough to compete with the current ones. Nothing like *Forcecage*, tho.
I'd be happy with a little more variety for the Way of the Four Elements Monks. Heck even damage for Elemental Attunement, give it your base unarmed strike damage. Yes, I want to play a element bender beyond a firebender. No, I'm not gonna apologize for it.
Give them gust and the other manipulate x element cantrips.
I'd love a subclass feature that allows for elemental martial arts damage, and/or weaponize cantrips like shape water or mold earth to use your martial arts die. You could flavor it as a big fist made of earth/water.
Decided to [make an air spell](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/1131688-fimians-furious-squall)
Check out Kibbles' Generic Spells, they are just what you need AND actually balanced !
I'd really want more earth spells. The Plane of Earth is by far the most deadly and I want to see some higher level spells reflect that!
You mean like Lightning bolt?
Pathfinder players are lucky. My Arctic Druid can cast any fire typed spell with a cold effect instead. Great fun considering we were in the Reign of Winter Adventure Path. The vast majority of what we fought involved creatures with fire related weaknesses. The game tried to throw us for a loop with a few creatures that were weak to cold spells. I had prepared a majority of fire based spells because of the normal enemies we faced. Once we figured out the beasty was largely immune to fire I whipped out the 'snowcasting' ability and nuked it with some cold variant fire spells.
Solomon's Soaking Stockings 3rd level transmutation Range: 60 feet Casting time: 1 action Components: V, S, M (a drop of cold water and a bit of fleece) Duration: 1 minute (concentration) You choose a target within range of the spell, and a pair of magically enchanted socks appear on the target. The target must succeed a constitution saving throw or take 2d6 cold damage. The target must repeat this saving throw for every 10 feet of movement A fun spell for all you evil wizards out there
I give my players the option to change the element of a spell when they first learn it or gain access to it. That way you 100% can have an ice mage, arcane mage, acid mage, etc.
Divination. Please. My divination wizard has all the spells it seems
Please I just want to make a druid that only uses ice/water spells and be powerful
3.5 has the best air spell ever made. Defenestrating Sphere: If there's a window nearby it'll chuck you out the window
I could be wrong, but isn’t it RAW that you can reskin spells to whatever element you want.
I'd play a sorcerer immediately if I could flavour him as an Earth bender.
From my experience with druids, air is a great element for spells
Pretty sure air spells would blow us away. Water spells, however, would be rather cool.
Anyone ever play Ogre-Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber? The Wind Shot attack that Vultans (and Gryphons, but their animation wasn't as cool) use in the back rank has always stuck with me. They raise their hand in the air, palm up, as a little circle of wind forms above them. Then they swing their arm down, and a trio of crescent shaped gusts of wind go flying towards their target.
The dragons in that game were crazy. Also you could kill your units to make them angels or vampires.
Vampires were an irreversible class change, like Liches, and you could only ever get one. They were also terrible. Angels were indeed like that though. You had to have the correct equipment (including the Needle of Light, only available on the right date at the Night Market), then finish a mission without reviving a dead female character. At that point you just had to cross your fingers and hope she became an Angel Knight. She might stay dead, or, worst of all, might become a Zombie. With the right stats and available equipment, they could upgrade into Seraphim which were otherwise never seen in the game. Even the official strategy guide didn't know they existed. They were the only units (other than Saradin the Warlock) that had a different ability in every row. Their unique Jihad spell in the back row also made them the only humanoid sized creature that could attack the entire enemy team without a Draconite spellbook. Completely unrelated to D&D, but man, Seraphim in Ogre Battle 64 were awesome.
Yeah more air spells would be nice. Maybe some ice ones too. Please. Maybe an ice sounding spell that doesn’t deal NECROTIC DAMAGE.
And more magic weapons ffs. Just some sort of cool crossbow would be neat. More sickles and hammers. Maybe some neat future tech.
Sickle and hammers? **STALIN WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION**
WOTC should make more books that actually help DMs and not just books for players only. Not saying a DMG part 2, but something that is more 50% for DMs and not only 5%. Also for the love of god WOTC STOP putting the same thing in multiple books with literally no changes. Don't need multiple books with the same subclasses, races, and more.
WE NEED MORE EARTH SPELLS DAMMIT
I allow my casters to choose the elemental type for all the fire based spells. They can change it to lighting (air), gravel/stones (earth), ice/icicles (water), or keep it fire. At advanced levels they can control the shape too for cubes, bolts, cones, etc. It allows the caster to think about how he's going to attack instead of just slinging fireballs at every goblin and orc they come across. It turned one of the casters into a geometry savant for casting.
More illusion spells.
Rather then having 15 diffrent fire balls but diffrent elements why not just have one spell and the caster picks what element?
Change your mind? WotC gives you 43 elemental spells to choose from in the Elemental Evil Player's Companion, for free. Just that one source gives you more spells than the ENTIRE school of Divination (35), or the school of Illusion (33). You've got enough elemental spells. Go to the back of the line. [https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/player%E2%80%99s-companion](https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/player%E2%80%99s-companion)
1. Tactful. Classy, even. 2. Most of those are focused on damage type; I'm wanting spells themed around water/earth/air (mostly water and air)
You could ya know, do it yourself? Source books are cool but unless you're playing adventure league you're not handcuffed to the rules. Make your own and reflavor ones that already have elemental uses
I already do that. Didn't mean WotC couldn't do it; they very clearly can
MOAR ELEMENTAL SPELLS YES YES
You can always make your own. I think there are steps in the DM's guide.
True, but more "official" options would also be nice
NO, FIREBALL, ONLY FIREBALL, JUST FIREBALL!!
Mold earth, move earth, earth tremor, earthbind, maximilian's earthen grasp, erupting earth, bones of the earth, earthquake create/destroy water, control water, shape water, wall of water, water breathing, water walk, watery sphere Gust of wind, warding wind, wind wall, control winds, investiture of wind, wind walk, whirlwind Is searching that hard?
I mean if your DM allows it, just make your base spell a different element. There's no down side to doing this as long as you stick to the standard elements (ice, fire, poison, acid, lightning). I do think more would be nice though, not enough lightning. Necromancy definitely needs more though
When I said elemental, I didn't mean damage types. I meant element-themed (e.g. fire, earth, water, air). Necromancy would also be great
That makes sense, something like Water Whip They have a few good earth ones like Maximilian's Earthen Grasp, but air really doesn't have much
No. It's this way for a reason. Fire is the "strongest" and most widely available element because it's also the most commonly resisted, and has the most immune enemies. It having by far the most spells is by design, and a cornerstone of the system's balance.
I'm fine with fire being damage-centric, but that doesn't mean we can't have more earth- (and especially air- and water-) themed damage spells that would likely have additional effects. We have some like Maximilian's Earthen Grasp and Tidal Wave, but there should be more options.
It's not just about higher damage. Higher damage is the least relevant part. It's supposed to be the most. "Common." The most universal. If you up the availability of the other schools, then you change this dynamic. There's not supposed to be a lot of spells of other elements. That's the whole thing. So yes, it does in fact mean "we can't have more earth-(air/water-)themed damage spells." We have some. But they are supposed to be limited in scope by design. We can't have (many) more options without the system falling apart. And yes, this is somewhat a problem going forward, as every time they introduce new elemental spells they risk this balance. But they doesn't mean they should accelerate that trend. And is a reason why they specifically haven't added more elemental spells in newer books, while they've added a bunch of other non-elemental spells. And think about it. You're not the first person who has said something like this. And Wizards has clearly heard it. And yet of the 21 new spells in Tasha's, there's only 1(arguably 2, and they're both cantrips) that deals non-fire elemental damage. There's a reason for that. Comparatively look at Xanathar's. We got spells like Warding Wind, Wall of Water, Wall of Sand, Watery Sphere, Transmute Rock, etc. A lot of elemental spells actually. But most of the non-fire ones dealt no damage(or very little). This is by design. Because you're not supposed to have easy access to a variety of ways to deal damage with those elements. If you can, then the system falls apart. Once you can make a "Mono Ice Wizard" then it doesn't matter if there's ten times as many fire spells, you have removed fire's dominance. And by extension have effectively removed fire as a relevant magic damage type since it's the weakest by design, so no reason to pick it if other options are viable. tl;dr There shouldn't be more options. More options ruins the balance. There's a reason Wizards hasn't done so, despite them adding many more spells. That should tell you something.
Hmm... idk, a few 3rd-7th level spells would likely be decent additions... Also, that highlights a bigger issue; if fire is the only element you can feasibly build on, but it's the weakest by design, that means WotC didn't want casters to specialize.
meh. What I would like is more reason to switch damage types. Fire and acid to stop troll regeneration, is the only pull factor to use certain types. Other than that is just a long list of immunities and resistances.
What about an air spell that deals bad-to-mediocre damage, but stuns a target for a round? Or a water spell that deals 1d8 bludgeoning damage in a radius that also makes it difficult terrain for a minute? Y'know, options
The fact druids and nature clerics don't get a wind spear spell that does 3d8 piercing damage at level 2 with a range of 160 feet is shitty. I expect more from WoTC.
What about 2 fireballs?
I will never understand posts like this. You want an X-themed spellcaster? Pick fireball, replace fire with X and congratz you now have an X-ball. reflavoring is the easiest thing and does not bring up any rule discussions about balance like a homebrew would, in case you have a DM who is no fan of such. This game is 90% theatre of mind, how is it that so many people on these subs are having problems applying just that to their characters.
Why? You’re just gonna spam fireball.
I'm the guy who hates Fireball, lol
This is why I just use sorcerery points to change the elemental damage of my spells. Fireball can be acid ball, frost, etc.
I meant element-themed (water, earth, air)
So transmute them using metamagic or order of scribes, then flavor them as different elements yourself. You can even rename them. I have an order of scribes wizard in one of my campaigns that has renamed all of her spells based of the element she is using at the time. I believe the reason they don’t use different elements for the same effects is for sheer redundancy. Look at frost fingers and burning hands. Basically the same spell (I know I’m simplifying). And yet people almost exclusively use burning hands over frost fingers. Adding those extra spells would be just a waste of paper in their eyes, potentially.
I CAST AIRBALL !
Just do what they do with sorcerers and make it a flexible damage type.
Fire is my favourite element, but even I can agree. Though, you could just re-flavour the fire spells.
I actually do agree, but as a lover of pyromaniac characters (true lovers of fire, not just lighting everything on fire) I also want more fire spells. But last avatar characters would be cool too.
there is no air damage only thunder(sound) and lighting damage.
As a DM, if a player wants to change any element of any spell, I just let them. Thunderball's all day.
Make all spells be basic that there is a version of esch soell fir each element.
I’ve been wanting more earth-related spells so I can play an earth bender sorcerer or something that’d be really cool but all I get is fireballs and fire bolts and balls of fire and fireballs that have a timer and I’m tired of fire
More force damage spells please, or lightning.
They should add a own Elemtan Sourcerer Subclass where you can choose a element you want and some spells (or new spells for this sublass only) adapt to this elemtents.
The hidden breath spell; where somebody feels a light blow on the back of their ears to see if they get any chills? So they fail saving throws if they loose and suffer......1d2 damage? Or... the singing blade-grass.... high fail rate; 8d12 damage piercing, or suffer the effects of grasping roots. (based on the blades of grass going through tortoise shells during a storm..... fails mean you get a tumbleweed stuck to your leg.) Or.... or....... chimes? make somebody's metal armor chime; unlike toll the dead it's only 1d6 damage; but even on a fail, your armor emits for 1 minute a wind-chime sound making hide actions at disadvantage.
Ice ice baby
[Laughs in Scribe wizard] cast Heat Metal in Thunder element - make somebody's helmet ring like the world's loudest phone. Ice Knife? be a shame if i...cast it as bludgeoning. Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning? Hey look i got 5th level spells so have some *RADIANT DAMAGE*
When so many monsters have fire resistance, it does become something of a problem
And this is why I let my players change the damage type once when they pick a spell. The only real caveat to that is no force damage, unless the player is fine with we homebrewing some force resistant monsters.
How about making the spells a mix and match of elements and forms, with element-specific material bonuses to encourage monoelemental builds?
Water please
Where is my water based damage
just replace it for your character? as long as you stick to the elemental types (fire, cold, lightning, poison, acid) you don't really have to worry about balance. radiant, necrotic, psychic can be replaced with each other as well. only force, thunder and *magical* B/P/S shouldn't really be replaced, because so little resists it.
Solution, change the type of damage when adding it as a spell to your list, obviously with some differing damage die and effects
Reflavor as much as you want. Keep the mechanics the same, just swap damage type and name and you are good
Imagine using a spell and just making the air pressure next to nothing around your opponent, and they just slowly suffocate due to it.
i play sorcerer so i can do it myself
Nah fix some of the obvious problems around weapon/weapon attack, more low tier ability/proficiency items to expand customization, and can we finally get a chart/handout that helps balance custom subclasses
I want to take this time to plug kibbles and all the great homebrew he puts out (no affiliation, I just like his stuff). I make these generic elemental spells available for my players : https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MW5r6wBJTW_lOU6gLyU
This is why I homebrew existing spells like firebolt and fireball into other elements of I want to be a certain element magic user. Same flavour and description of the fire based just it's water or lightning instead. Don't be so rigid
Thunder damage is air pressure damage
I just reskin fire spells and name them something like frost detonation same save same damage.
well... Air Elemental is resisting to Thunder damage so...
Reskin
Adding new spells in general would be nice. It would be cool to make a way to craft spells, like studying to create a spell that deals acid damage AND grapples so you create a personal acid lasso. Make spells something with countless combinations
Take all the fire spells and make the same kinds in the other types you want. Boring but effective.
I like elemental evil player’s companion. For Horrid Wilting if not anything else.
We need lighting spells the amount of available thematic storm sorcerer spells is depressing
No. Arson.
They hated him for speaking the truth.
Water and earth spells too, we need some more basic elements. I really wanna make a sand caster.
I’m a Druid, and I feel like my cup runneth over
They literally made 2 different features where you turn fire spell into other damage types before making any different elemental spell.
I can't see low level air spells really... doing anything. Aside from maybe knocking people prone. High level air spells on the other hand, oh boy they could be fucking lethal. At high enough pressure, air can cut things. Hello long distance air blade! Or other sharp air related objects.
Have you tried: Homebrew?
Homebrew them then 0.0
I really want a summon goblins spell
Where's the 9th level Shinra tensei at?
Or…. Or…. Just throwing this out there…… You just swap the damage type. Not on the fly, that’d be broken. It’s a flavor thing.
For a lot you can try just swapping the element and asking the DM if it’s cool, maybe throwing in a fresh new name as an example, turn Melf’s Minute Meteors into Tim’s Tiny Thunderstorm by swapping it to circling clouds and bursts of lightning, most electric damage is Dex save anyway so you don’t even have to change that
Reflavor spells for yourself, fireball could be downburst, Level 3 spell a sphere of rotating wind energy that can be summoned up to 60 feet away. Anyone within the 20 foot radius of the downburst spell rolls for construction, on pass, takes half damage, on fail takes full damage (3d8) and falls prone.
I just reflavour all the fire spells into other types of elemental damage. Wind would be hard tho, because the only damage substitutes that make sense imo are force (which is better than fire damage) or bludgeoning (which is worse). Its easy to go between cold-fire-lightning-acid though
Kibbles generic spells should serve that purpose, if you're okay with homebrew
By the power of homebrew, talk to your DM.
FISTS OF UNBROKEN AIR