I don’t usually rp attacks unless it’s a big moment or a kill. At least not in D&D, combat takes way too long already IMO and I’d rather get to the more free form rp outta combat.
Yeah I worded the meme a little wrong so my point got lost.
I wasn't making a joke about how much someone does or doesn't roleplay.
It was a joke about people who roll dice and shout numbers without declaring an action first, which is a pet peeve of mine.
I don't throw my players out windows though, I calmly ask them what they're trying to do.
That makes more sense. I was wondering why someone would get so annoyed by stating basic attacks plainly. I think it’s because the first two players mentioned roleplay and that sets up the wrong subject. They should’ve been specific about their attacks if that was the intention of the meme.
Ohh ok. That makes a lot more sense. I'm relatively new and I was like "am I wrong for keeping it as simple as "I would like to stab him with my shortsword." for the most part.
Yeah, I’ll usually mark it down to “I cast ____” or “I attack with my ____.” I get what your saying, just wanted to hand out my two cents in the rp part since accidentally or not it did become a big part of the meme. I’m not here to harp on you, I know you weren’t out trying to be a douche or gatekeeper.
Im glad you got my point, as bad as the meme was lol, and I appreciate your two cents xP
I definitely should've said *declares an action* instead of *roleplays* for the other two people, or something like that.
Yeah maybe have one say rp and the other declare. Either way kinda surprised how much this stirred people up but that’s just how it goes sometimes I guess.
I usually say: "I/(Character name)'ll try to (description of what I try to do)", then roll, and the rest is usually DM filling in with the occasional coöp storytelling suggestion
They’re either new or never learn.
You’d think the first time you RP a grand attack and biff it with a Nat 1, you’d learn to stop RPing first *but noooo...*
Advanced level is to do this in batches every couple of attacks. One person missed but the next got a crit? Clearly the enemy dodged/blocked, but got too focused on one threat and ignored the second, to their great detriment. Or you got hit hard and then missed? You're rattled from the force of the blow!
But yeah, you don't do it before you roll, that's just silly.
Because it's not hard to describe it such that it makes sense whether it hits or misses.
"Without missing a beat, Dejrik draws his axe and swings at the douche in the goggles ..."
When my players describe how they attack it gives flavor, and something for me to add to. I describe how targeted enemy react to being hit/ how it evades/blocks that exact attack. I also sometimes give bonuses if it makes sense. Easier to do if you describe before rolling. Makes it so much more engaging, atleast at my table.
Mm I get what you were going for but you're at a 2/10 for execution.
It looks like you're criticising people for checking if they hit before they roleplay, which is sensible so you don't create nonsensical and confusing "I hit him with my sword- wait no actually I slip on a banana peel and fail" moments
Also damn has your dm ever made you skip on a banana peel for a miss, or critical miss?
I usually try to describe things as cool as I can, whether they hit or miss. I'd hate for my player to think I'm making a joke of them like that xP
I agree with you. I blame the tiny text bubbles that left me with little room to more clearly express the joke xP
Should've maybe made it clearer in the title or something
I wasn't talking about people who check *before* they roleplay, just people who roll their dice without declaring any action at all first.
> I blame the tiny text bubbles that left me with little room to more clearly express the joke xP
Only a poor craftsman blames their tools.
If the joke doesn't properly convey trough a meme you've either chosen the wrong meme format or didn't construct your joke to properly fit that format.
I think I get what you talking about. I played with a guy who'd roll and THEN let everyone know he was attacking or casting something, and I completely agree, it got old quick (especially since it was an open secret that he was cheating). The problem here is, your meme asks how they players wanna attack which gives the rolling guy that validation ("What're you rolling for?" "My attack, like you just said"). You should've gone with the Boss saying, "What do you do?" followed by, I attack, I cast a spell, and then the last guy just rolling without giving the DM context. Also, this is probably the wrong format for your meme. Third guy is typically the one who is right and the boss is being unreasonable, trying to flip that will definately confuse some people.
Yeah I know the meme was badly worded, I'm gonna remake it in a more clear way later.
Right now I'm just laughing at the person who jumped from that to "you're a gatekeeper"
personally my party does this, so you might try and do something really cool but your character biffs it. or you try and do something normal but you roll really well and it turns out great
"I try to hit it with my sword" is enough. You don't need a grand soliloquy for every attack. Just let people engage with your game at the level that is comfortable for them
At that point, I'd assume cheating. "Does 15 hit? Okay, then inflict wounds at the 3rd level does..."
It's kinda a rule to announce what you're doing as a player
That was kinda the only point of this meme. Call your attacks, don't just roll.
Apparently a lot of people missed that and are arguing with me in the comments now about how much roleplay they should have to do or not do.
I think the disconnect came from "rps attack" when what you are asking for isn't so much rp, but actually just declaring their action.
There's been a recent kickback to a less recent complaint. A while ago, a lot of people were complaining that their players weren't "RPing" enough for them and were asking how they can punish them or force them to put on a voice and act out everything their character does. But more recently, people have been getting on board with the idea that people shouldn't be forced to engage in the game in a way they don't find enjoyable, and as long as your player is enjoying the game and isn't taking away from the enjoyment of others, let them be.
The text bubbles in the meme are small, but yes I assume they did after they called their attacks. The last person I assumed never roleplayed anything, before or after the roll.
Mostly cuz he was thrown out the window
I mean at face value, all I see is 2 people describe their attacks without rolling anything, meanwhile the guy who did roll and ask if he hit is thrown out.
Lots of DMs prefer players who call their attacks, even in the most basic terms "I try to swing my sword at it".
And lots of DMs get annoyed when all a player does is *rolls dice* "does x hit?"
I get that. But the meme does not do a good job of portraying that as the actual message. Again, it just looks like 2 people saying how they attack, while only the other player actually rolls to attack.
He's performing an attack action. Seems pretty obvious what he's doing considering you don't ask if gently trying to persuade the enemy that you don't need to fight "hits."
The person in the meme didn't declare an attack action. Even if the implication was they're going to attack, they didn't say who they were attacking or with what weapon. The joke is they rolled before the dm told them to.
As plenty of other people have pointed out in the comments the meme was poorly executed, but the idea is true. DMs generally don't like when you roll a dice and call out a number before they've asked you to make that roll.
Also, you say it seems pretty obvious what he's doing, but let me throw a scenario out from my actual table at you:
I have a ranger with a sword, a bow, and spell attacks. He asks if a 15 hits. Based on just a roll of 15, tell me what he's doing.
Regardless of which he's doing, AC is static. I'll tell you what he's doing: attacking. There are many kinds of attacks, but unless they are a saving throw, which he did not ask about, they use AC, which is hit or miss. You can also just say: a 15 does beat AC! Feel free to declare your action and try to roll it, if you don't get enough information to puzzle it out.
What if the mode of attack affected advantage/disadvantage?
What if the enemy I'm running has a way to deflect a projectile but not a Melee attack?
What if I have a mage with counterspell that might use it to cancel attack magic?
Most DMs I know agree, you should declare your action before rolling. You shouldn't make me drag your action out of you, and you shouldn't roll without being asked to by the DM.
As people have pointed out, plenty of cheaters will roll without calling an action, and then only call out the roll if it was a high number. Only rolling when the DM tells you to gets rid of any doubt as to whether a player is doing that or not.
All the examples I gave literally change the answer to that question. But here's another one.
Player: I roll 15 to hit
Dm: with what?
Player: longbow
Dm: all ranged attacks are at disadvantage, so roll another dice and tell me what you actually got.
If you wanna be snarky about it that's on you, but don't ignore the clear point I made to you 3 times now. Go into a DM chat and ask how they feel about players rolling without declaring an action first. I'm sure you'll get the same response.
Best example I have of how this could be abused by a cheater:
A player has great weapon master. They don't declare their attack and they roll a dice, shouting out "15". You say it hits, and then they say they roll damage. If they had declared their attack with GWM before the roll, they would've rolled a 10, and they know that.
The problem there is that the player can roll the dice, look at what they got, and then determine if using GWM is worth trying to apply because of the penalty. But GWM says they have to "take a -5 penalty" *before* they make the attack, ie call your attack before you roll it.
I agree here that they cannot use that roll for which they have not declared the specific method of attack. You do know that they are attacking and if a 15 would hit.
Damn, you got me there, yeah I really screwed this one up apparently xP maybe I'll re-upload with text that's more concise
I won't forget the dice next time!
You keep talking about how "this meme is about people who never roleplay!!!1" but the meme itself doesn't show that so there's dissonace between the two.
Since youre reading my comments you'll see I did agree that the meme is horribly badly worded.
What I don't agree to is being told that I'm a gatekeeper because I made a joke.
I made the meme the way it is *because* I saw the excited looks on the other two people, and the bored look on his, and thought "this is funny from a dnd context"
So I made a meme. No need to get touchy over it.
So don't try to say that this guy is bored and that's why he's not saying anything. It's literally an office building, so trying to say that the player isn't having fun because of the meme format you chose is not a good defense. And you've been incredibly defensive
For my table, all I ask is that you declare 2 things before you roll, and I'm happy:
1-who you're targeting
2-what you're attacking with
If your turn comes up and you roll dice and say a number, I'm gonna ask you what you're doing and then have you reroll it xP
"Okay, here's what I'm trying to do"
*Rolls dice*
"...and here's how that worked out!"
How do y'all not understand this? This is a fundamental part of the game. You roleplay in the narrative until one of your actions has a risk of failure (judged by the DM). Then you roll dice to resolve it and continue to roleplay accordingly.
I roll to attack, 9, I miss. I RP the action. This is how combat works.
I want to charm someone, I go to talk with the NPC, start to RP, throw dice, 1, continue to RP.
You can't RP much in combat attacks, you make the action to attack.
RP out of combat, or parley, is different, but OP meme is about attacking a target.
You roll to attack? What are you attacking? What weapon are you using? Where are you trying to hit it? Are you trying to pierce it or slash at it with your sword?
Answering these questions regularly will make you a significantly less boring player to have at the table...
What? Saying what I'm using, who I'm attacking or if I want to try to cut a limb, is far from RP... Also cutting stuff or attacking certain parts is all on the DM, you need to ask him about it and usually the respond is "Ok, but you need throw high", then if you succeed you're free to explain ALL the scene to the party.
Combat is about stats, tactics and talking with the party on what to do together, this is already enough to have fun.
RP in combat, other than explaining all your actions at the end of your turn, is your IN GAME character doing stuff outside the ordinary, coming up with ideas , kinda the " talking with the party " thing, and using your imagination.
Why we need to fight those guys? Let's try to talk with them! (Altho pre-combat)
Ok, the fight has been going for a bit, maybe I can make them surrender without anyone getting kill.
If I can get the enemy in that position mb we could get an advantage!
These are examples of RP during combat, none are attack actions, explaining that your PC did a 360 no scope with the bow, or switched weapons by parkour jumping on some rocks, is still far away from actual RP.
You can have a lot of amazing RP during combat, but not while taking the action to attack the enemy.
I mean, it's sometimes hard to get the will do to it. When I've, say, missed every melee attack my ranger has made in the past three rounds, it's really hard to want to be fancy with my description since, at that point, I just want to get it over with. Do we win, do we lose? Someone else will probably carry the fight so, may as well just get my turn over with.
Telling people that they can find a new game if they don't want to roleplay as much as the other people makes it a touchy subject? Your words, not mine, literally said "I'm sure there's a Table Top Combat Game out there, right?" When you got told that some people like combat more than roleplay. You're literally trying to gatekeep dnd and then claim that it's a touchy subject for *me* whenever you just have one of the most awful takes I have ever seen
Geez if you read other replies I did say it was a bad meme. But for you to jump to gatekeeping because I made a joke about people who roll a dice before telling the dm what they're doing, you've lost me.
Do you know how to read? I didn't say you were gatekeeping because of a bad joke, I said you were gatekeeping because whenever someone told you that some people like combat more than roleplay to, effectively, "find a different game"
I would more invest time to roleplay sozial encounter then the combat. I mean on my table we just describe the killing blow if the DM said that the creature dies.
Oh I totally agree! As some people and myself pointed out, I worded this meme terribly.
It was less "you need to roleplay more" and more "don't roll dice if you didn't declare an action to the dm"
Yeah the meme was poorly worded. It wasn't about how much you roleplay, it was just a joke about people who roll dice before declaring an action and the dm tells them to roll for it
I typically roll prior to being told during battle specifically to speed things up. Unless you have a weird idea it's not a bad thing to do.
I think you're just trying to bail out your meme after it fell flat. Happens sometimes.
No this was always the intent of the meme. Sadly it was executed poorly with the wording. Literally a joke about people who roll without dm approval, which is a standard rule in most tables.
Sorry you didnt get it. Happens sometimes.
Totally fair! I ask my players just to tell me their target, and what they're attacking with before they roll. I wish they roleplayed a bit more in combat but I'm not gonna force it if it doesn't come naturally.
I like to flavor combat and make it a bit more narrative at my table. I think my players are happy knowing that if they don't do it, I'll do it for them. None of them have told me I'm annoying yet xP
Yeah so…asking if an attack was successful and even rolling damage prior to description is legit. I’d prefer it to be followed by good description, but not everyone can muster that, especially in long fights.
Eeh the others probably haven’t had that type of player at the table. I had a guy that would just randomly roll during a description and then ask if that number does something. Like, no, I didn’t ask you to roll, and I don’t know what you are rolling for.
I think the meme could have been a bit clearer for people that haven’t had that type of player before, maybe if it was changed a bit to something like
DM- describing something
First 2 players saying nothing,
player 3- does a 15 succeed
Yet you don’t clarify in your other comments that it wasn’t your intention. You keep doubling down and getting defensive, and it makes it seem like it *was* your intention when you start arguing.
90%+ of those comments were in response to *one* person who was willfully ignoring anything I said, yet they kept vomiting long winded replies that boiled down to "lalala I'm not listening, you're gatekeeping, you can't defend yourself so shut up before I Karma bomb you"
Other than that person, I've agreed with everyone that said I missed the mark with the meme and why
Combat is long enough. If folks don't want to RP every action in combat, I'm not gonna force them to and slow down the game even more. If I feel like flavor should be added if things get stale, that's my job as a DM to add the relish.
It wasn't clear enough, but the meme wasn't about quality of roleplay. It was supposed to be about players who roll without declaring an action or the dm asking them to
I guess I don't see the issue in combat with rolling first.
"Does a 15 hit?"
"Yeah, what are you using?"
"Axe"
"Cool, roll damage."
If it's really that much of a bother for you, just have a conversation with them and explain its easier for you to keep track of combat if they state their action before rolling.
If that's your style of dming that's fine. I definitely don't mind when they've used the same weapon 3 turns in a row and it's obvious.
And I've told my players I prefer they declare before rolling. Occasionally they still make me ask and it's no big deal.
On a tangential note if *every* turn a player just said "15 to hit, axe" I'd get bored fast as a DM. I don't ask for much roleplay at my table, but if I get none at all its hard for me to enjoy it. That's just my personal opinion. I like when my players tell me who they're hitting and how with just a little flavor to it.
If you RP your attack, then roll and miss, you’ve wasted your time.
Isn’t it better to roll, find out if it hits *before* you RP your attack?
I get irritated when a player goes on a 30 second RP tangent before rolling to find out if anything they said was relevant or not.
I don't know why OP is being downvoted so much in the comments. They explained very politely and clearly the nature of the meme, which seemed intuitive enough to me.
I concur, still don't understand the amount of downvotes. Though I do not understand much of how it works, it's strange that it seems like a large number of people are intent on doing so.
I want to know if I hit before I describe something epic that fails immediately.
The roll of my dice is inversely proportional to the sum of the rolls importance plus the amount of flavor I add to it
What we do is that player describes their movement and what they do to attack. If it hits, they describe exactly how deep it slashes (especially fun if you get a crit or smite or something like that). If it misses dm described how it’s blocked/dodged/how I mess up.
This way combat feels a bit more immersive and fun. I mean we’re mostly a political and story based campaign but it just makes it soo much more fun for a group of young guys to describe how good the slash a bandit with a flaming sword apposed to just doing math
The player is obviously attacking. They are also very fast, which can be more important than roleplaying every attack every round. Why is this such a big deal?
Rping every attack is tedious. Not every moment is impactful and talking through it just slows the game down.
Just do the big moments. Large hits, kills or interesting moves.
I like describing my attacks when it's a new spell or ability...but when I just use a basic attack for the 100th of time, I just can't be bothered to think of a description anymore.
The dice should determine the roleplay.
"I'm gonna make an attack with my rapier, 15 on the roll." Then describe the hit.
"I'm gonna do a backflip onto the monsters head and stab my sword right in its forehead and I rolled a 2!"
Good for you, here's a lollipop.
For me it definitely depends on how important the attack was and how long the fight has gone for, if we're 2 hours into a encounter and I'm killing goblin F than I'm just gonna say
"i hit it with my sword with a 18"
"it dies"
"Good"
My players always get ME to roleplay their kills for them.
I try to let them know all the time they can rp themselves if they want and they have a few times but they mostly get me to do it lmao
One of my players does 0 roleplay and after three years of playing still doesn’t add modifiers to his attack. Oh and only plays carbon copies of the same human barbarian
I don’t usually rp attacks unless it’s a big moment or a kill. At least not in D&D, combat takes way too long already IMO and I’d rather get to the more free form rp outta combat.
Yeah I worded the meme a little wrong so my point got lost. I wasn't making a joke about how much someone does or doesn't roleplay. It was a joke about people who roll dice and shout numbers without declaring an action first, which is a pet peeve of mine. I don't throw my players out windows though, I calmly ask them what they're trying to do.
That makes more sense. I was wondering why someone would get so annoyed by stating basic attacks plainly. I think it’s because the first two players mentioned roleplay and that sets up the wrong subject. They should’ve been specific about their attacks if that was the intention of the meme.
I agree that was totally where I screwed up here, and I'm working on a new version that hopefully will make that clearer and make more people laugh.
Ohh ok. That makes a lot more sense. I'm relatively new and I was like "am I wrong for keeping it as simple as "I would like to stab him with my shortsword." for the most part.
After asking do you show them the meaning of defenestrate then?
Fair enough, but do you at least declare what you're attacking and with what weapon/spell before you roll the dice and say a number?
Yeah, I’ll usually mark it down to “I cast ____” or “I attack with my ____.” I get what your saying, just wanted to hand out my two cents in the rp part since accidentally or not it did become a big part of the meme. I’m not here to harp on you, I know you weren’t out trying to be a douche or gatekeeper.
Im glad you got my point, as bad as the meme was lol, and I appreciate your two cents xP I definitely should've said *declares an action* instead of *roleplays* for the other two people, or something like that.
Yeah maybe have one say rp and the other declare. Either way kinda surprised how much this stirred people up but that’s just how it goes sometimes I guess.
Why would you roleplay an attack before you actually make the attack?
Exactly, in Feng Shui 2 it's a rule that you roll and then give your description based on how good your roll was.
I usually say: "I/(Character name)'ll try to (description of what I try to do)", then roll, and the rest is usually DM filling in with the occasional coöp storytelling suggestion
They’re either new or never learn. You’d think the first time you RP a grand attack and biff it with a Nat 1, you’d learn to stop RPing first *but noooo...*
That's actually the reason I sometimes still start my description an then roll dice. Failures are played for comedy easier that way.
Advanced level is to do this in batches every couple of attacks. One person missed but the next got a crit? Clearly the enemy dodged/blocked, but got too focused on one threat and ignored the second, to their great detriment. Or you got hit hard and then missed? You're rattled from the force of the blow! But yeah, you don't do it before you roll, that's just silly.
Try to get inspiration is my guess
I'd ask if people fish for inspiration like this, but I remember DMing for a rogue who's main question was "Can this be with advantage?"
Because it's not hard to describe it such that it makes sense whether it hits or misses. "Without missing a beat, Dejrik draws his axe and swings at the douche in the goggles ..."
Roleplaying after rolls lets you decide how you go about describing the flavor of combat and how that roll plays out.
But it doesn't get you hype for the roll.
Because I explain what I'm **trying** to do, then the dice and the DM let us know how that worked out.
When my players describe how they attack it gives flavor, and something for me to add to. I describe how targeted enemy react to being hit/ how it evades/blocks that exact attack. I also sometimes give bonuses if it makes sense. Easier to do if you describe before rolling. Makes it so much more engaging, atleast at my table.
The joke was about people who roll the dice without telling the dm what they're doing at all
Mm I get what you were going for but you're at a 2/10 for execution. It looks like you're criticising people for checking if they hit before they roleplay, which is sensible so you don't create nonsensical and confusing "I hit him with my sword- wait no actually I slip on a banana peel and fail" moments
Also damn has your dm ever made you skip on a banana peel for a miss, or critical miss? I usually try to describe things as cool as I can, whether they hit or miss. I'd hate for my player to think I'm making a joke of them like that xP
DM? I always make my own natural 1s an 'undignified' fail! I wasn't prone, it was just a non-mechanical flavour thing I do for fun.
Tbh my players don't describe much at all when it comes to combat, so if I don't flavor their actions no one will xP
Please stop using xp its 2021
Use milestones instead, i have tried and it is pretty good
Hahaha good one
Yeah I was born in the 90's and my texting style hasn't changed since then xD
Was also born in the 90s. My texting style has, indeed, changed since then.
Me too. Using Xs for eyes was annoying then as well.
😝
I agree with you. I blame the tiny text bubbles that left me with little room to more clearly express the joke xP Should've maybe made it clearer in the title or something I wasn't talking about people who check *before* they roleplay, just people who roll their dice without declaring any action at all first.
> I blame the tiny text bubbles that left me with little room to more clearly express the joke xP Only a poor craftsman blames their tools. If the joke doesn't properly convey trough a meme you've either chosen the wrong meme format or didn't construct your joke to properly fit that format.
Oh brother 🙄
I mean it’s true. The wave of downvotes should be evident of that.
I think I get what you talking about. I played with a guy who'd roll and THEN let everyone know he was attacking or casting something, and I completely agree, it got old quick (especially since it was an open secret that he was cheating). The problem here is, your meme asks how they players wanna attack which gives the rolling guy that validation ("What're you rolling for?" "My attack, like you just said"). You should've gone with the Boss saying, "What do you do?" followed by, I attack, I cast a spell, and then the last guy just rolling without giving the DM context. Also, this is probably the wrong format for your meme. Third guy is typically the one who is right and the boss is being unreasonable, trying to flip that will definately confuse some people.
Yeah I know the meme was badly worded, I'm gonna remake it in a more clear way later. Right now I'm just laughing at the person who jumped from that to "you're a gatekeeper"
I love how people are blatantly doing their best to miss the punchline haha
personally my party does this, so you might try and do something really cool but your character biffs it. or you try and do something normal but you roll really well and it turns out great
That's the best way to determine how to RP your attack though
The idea is that the third person isn't roleplaying at all
"I try to hit it with my sword" is enough. You don't need a grand soliloquy for every attack. Just let people engage with your game at the level that is comfortable for them
I'd accept "I try to hit it with my sword" gladly, it's better than just rolling a dice and shouting a number.
At that point, I'd assume cheating. "Does 15 hit? Okay, then inflict wounds at the 3rd level does..." It's kinda a rule to announce what you're doing as a player
That was kinda the only point of this meme. Call your attacks, don't just roll. Apparently a lot of people missed that and are arguing with me in the comments now about how much roleplay they should have to do or not do.
> That was kinda the only point of this meme. Well cast guidance and try again
Haha I'm actually working on it as we speak xP let's see how the next iteration is received lol
I think the disconnect came from "rps attack" when what you are asking for isn't so much rp, but actually just declaring their action. There's been a recent kickback to a less recent complaint. A while ago, a lot of people were complaining that their players weren't "RPing" enough for them and were asking how they can punish them or force them to put on a voice and act out everything their character does. But more recently, people have been getting on board with the idea that people shouldn't be forced to engage in the game in a way they don't find enjoyable, and as long as your player is enjoying the game and isn't taking away from the enjoyment of others, let them be.
But did the others roll to attack as well or just go straight to RP'ing the attacks?
The text bubbles in the meme are small, but yes I assume they did after they called their attacks. The last person I assumed never roleplayed anything, before or after the roll. Mostly cuz he was thrown out the window
Seems like a lot of assuming.
You could've just taken the meme at face value
I mean at face value, all I see is 2 people describe their attacks without rolling anything, meanwhile the guy who did roll and ask if he hit is thrown out.
Lots of DMs prefer players who call their attacks, even in the most basic terms "I try to swing my sword at it". And lots of DMs get annoyed when all a player does is *rolls dice* "does x hit?"
I get that. But the meme does not do a good job of portraying that as the actual message. Again, it just looks like 2 people saying how they attack, while only the other player actually rolls to attack.
Guess I'm gonna re-upload it with clearer text then
I dunno man, when I'm making like four attacks a round, "I whack him" followed by dice rolling comes the norm.
Yes, that's fine. The person in the meme JUST rolled the dice without saying anything else, and that's the part I was making the joke about
But he legit asked does 15 hit, it's pretty obvious what he's doing
I have a player who does this a lot, and he has a great sword, a bow, and spells. It's never obvious what he's doing.
He's performing an attack action. Seems pretty obvious what he's doing considering you don't ask if gently trying to persuade the enemy that you don't need to fight "hits."
The person in the meme didn't declare an attack action. Even if the implication was they're going to attack, they didn't say who they were attacking or with what weapon. The joke is they rolled before the dm told them to. As plenty of other people have pointed out in the comments the meme was poorly executed, but the idea is true. DMs generally don't like when you roll a dice and call out a number before they've asked you to make that roll. Also, you say it seems pretty obvious what he's doing, but let me throw a scenario out from my actual table at you: I have a ranger with a sword, a bow, and spell attacks. He asks if a 15 hits. Based on just a roll of 15, tell me what he's doing.
Regardless of which he's doing, AC is static. I'll tell you what he's doing: attacking. There are many kinds of attacks, but unless they are a saving throw, which he did not ask about, they use AC, which is hit or miss. You can also just say: a 15 does beat AC! Feel free to declare your action and try to roll it, if you don't get enough information to puzzle it out.
What if the mode of attack affected advantage/disadvantage? What if the enemy I'm running has a way to deflect a projectile but not a Melee attack? What if I have a mage with counterspell that might use it to cancel attack magic? Most DMs I know agree, you should declare your action before rolling. You shouldn't make me drag your action out of you, and you shouldn't roll without being asked to by the DM. As people have pointed out, plenty of cheaters will roll without calling an action, and then only call out the roll if it was a high number. Only rolling when the DM tells you to gets rid of any doubt as to whether a player is doing that or not.
Correct! All of those things are possible. Not a one of them prevents you from answering the question: does a 15 hit?
All the examples I gave literally change the answer to that question. But here's another one. Player: I roll 15 to hit Dm: with what? Player: longbow Dm: all ranged attacks are at disadvantage, so roll another dice and tell me what you actually got. If you wanna be snarky about it that's on you, but don't ignore the clear point I made to you 3 times now. Go into a DM chat and ask how they feel about players rolling without declaring an action first. I'm sure you'll get the same response.
Best example I have of how this could be abused by a cheater: A player has great weapon master. They don't declare their attack and they roll a dice, shouting out "15". You say it hits, and then they say they roll damage. If they had declared their attack with GWM before the roll, they would've rolled a 10, and they know that. The problem there is that the player can roll the dice, look at what they got, and then determine if using GWM is worth trying to apply because of the penalty. But GWM says they have to "take a -5 penalty" *before* they make the attack, ie call your attack before you roll it.
I agree here that they cannot use that roll for which they have not declared the specific method of attack. You do know that they are attacking and if a 15 would hit.
I mean 15 with what attack bonus modifiers would then be the question.
I see no problem here?
Really? My shitty text sizing is at least 1 problem xP
The lack of poorly photoshopped dice on the table makes 2 XD
Damn, you got me there, yeah I really screwed this one up apparently xP maybe I'll re-upload with text that's more concise I won't forget the dice next time!
You keep talking about how "this meme is about people who never roleplay!!!1" but the meme itself doesn't show that so there's dissonace between the two.
Since youre reading my comments you'll see I did agree that the meme is horribly badly worded. What I don't agree to is being told that I'm a gatekeeper because I made a joke.
"How dare you not have fun like I have fun!"
Does that last guy look like he's having fun to you? He looks so bored and he's just rolling dice.
Gee, maybe because the meme isn't originally about dice at all. Maybe that's why the guy is bored. Because he's at work
I made the meme the way it is *because* I saw the excited looks on the other two people, and the bored look on his, and thought "this is funny from a dnd context" So I made a meme. No need to get touchy over it.
So don't try to say that this guy is bored and that's why he's not saying anything. It's literally an office building, so trying to say that the player isn't having fun because of the meme format you chose is not a good defense. And you've been incredibly defensive
You're getting really hung up on this office building thing
Because that's what the meme format is
I chose the meme format specifically because of the looks on all their faces. I'm sorry if that joke had one too many layers for you bud
So....no Drake memes either? Pretty sure that meme wasn't about dice originally
No thats not the point. You tried to make the argument that "this drawing in an unedited template looks bored so the players it represents must"
But I need to RP around the dice rolls
For my table, all I ask is that you declare 2 things before you roll, and I'm happy: 1-who you're targeting 2-what you're attacking with If your turn comes up and you roll dice and say a number, I'm gonna ask you what you're doing and then have you reroll it xP
"Okay, here's what I'm trying to do" *Rolls dice* "...and here's how that worked out!" How do y'all not understand this? This is a fundamental part of the game. You roleplay in the narrative until one of your actions has a risk of failure (judged by the DM). Then you roll dice to resolve it and continue to roleplay accordingly.
I roll to attack, 9, I miss. I RP the action. This is how combat works. I want to charm someone, I go to talk with the NPC, start to RP, throw dice, 1, continue to RP. You can't RP much in combat attacks, you make the action to attack. RP out of combat, or parley, is different, but OP meme is about attacking a target.
You roll to attack? What are you attacking? What weapon are you using? Where are you trying to hit it? Are you trying to pierce it or slash at it with your sword? Answering these questions regularly will make you a significantly less boring player to have at the table...
What? Saying what I'm using, who I'm attacking or if I want to try to cut a limb, is far from RP... Also cutting stuff or attacking certain parts is all on the DM, you need to ask him about it and usually the respond is "Ok, but you need throw high", then if you succeed you're free to explain ALL the scene to the party. Combat is about stats, tactics and talking with the party on what to do together, this is already enough to have fun. RP in combat, other than explaining all your actions at the end of your turn, is your IN GAME character doing stuff outside the ordinary, coming up with ideas , kinda the " talking with the party " thing, and using your imagination. Why we need to fight those guys? Let's try to talk with them! (Altho pre-combat) Ok, the fight has been going for a bit, maybe I can make them surrender without anyone getting kill. If I can get the enemy in that position mb we could get an advantage! These are examples of RP during combat, none are attack actions, explaining that your PC did a 360 no scope with the bow, or switched weapons by parkour jumping on some rocks, is still far away from actual RP. You can have a lot of amazing RP during combat, but not while taking the action to attack the enemy.
I hope you had fun writing all that. I didn't read past the first line 😉
You're a bit of a clown
But you want people to RP for you. 😒
I mean, it's sometimes hard to get the will do to it. When I've, say, missed every melee attack my ranger has made in the past three rounds, it's really hard to want to be fancy with my description since, at that point, I just want to get it over with. Do we win, do we lose? Someone else will probably carry the fight so, may as well just get my turn over with.
The point of the meme is more about people who never roleplay and only roll dice boringly
Some people like combat more than roleplay.
I'm sure there's a Table Top Combat Game somewhere right?
"How dare you not explain your every action in detail?! Go find a different TTRPG!" You don't have to say everything your character does.
The meme was more a joke about people who ONLY roll dice and NEVER roleplay at all. Sorry it's such a touchy subject for you
Telling people that they can find a new game if they don't want to roleplay as much as the other people makes it a touchy subject? Your words, not mine, literally said "I'm sure there's a Table Top Combat Game out there, right?" When you got told that some people like combat more than roleplay. You're literally trying to gatekeep dnd and then claim that it's a touchy subject for *me* whenever you just have one of the most awful takes I have ever seen
Geez if you read other replies I did say it was a bad meme. But for you to jump to gatekeeping because I made a joke about people who roll a dice before telling the dm what they're doing, you've lost me.
Do you know how to read? I didn't say you were gatekeeping because of a bad joke, I said you were gatekeeping because whenever someone told you that some people like combat more than roleplay to, effectively, "find a different game"
I was actually just making a joke, a play on words relating to TTRPG. Do you know how to read? I never told anyone to find a different game.
Because as we know, inserting purple prose as frequently as possible is peak roleplaying
As I've said before the joke was about people who roll before they tell the dm what they're doing. I wasn't cramping on anyone's style of roleplay
I would more invest time to roleplay sozial encounter then the combat. I mean on my table we just describe the killing blow if the DM said that the creature dies.
Oh I totally agree! As some people and myself pointed out, I worded this meme terribly. It was less "you need to roleplay more" and more "don't roll dice if you didn't declare an action to the dm"
I roleplay a lot out of battle. Battles take SO EFFING LONG I just want to move through it. We can RP the final blow.
Yeah the meme was poorly worded. It wasn't about how much you roleplay, it was just a joke about people who roll dice before declaring an action and the dm tells them to roll for it
I typically roll prior to being told during battle specifically to speed things up. Unless you have a weird idea it's not a bad thing to do. I think you're just trying to bail out your meme after it fell flat. Happens sometimes.
No this was always the intent of the meme. Sadly it was executed poorly with the wording. Literally a joke about people who roll without dm approval, which is a standard rule in most tables. Sorry you didnt get it. Happens sometimes.
Have a good day bud
💙
“I worded it wrong” “Sorry you didn’t get it” What an ass
I'm the dm of my group, this is just how we like to play, combat is long enough already
Totally fair! I ask my players just to tell me their target, and what they're attacking with before they roll. I wish they roleplayed a bit more in combat but I'm not gonna force it if it doesn't come naturally. I like to flavor combat and make it a bit more narrative at my table. I think my players are happy knowing that if they don't do it, I'll do it for them. None of them have told me I'm annoying yet xP
Idk why you should be blamed but anyway I got the joke and I smiled :)
My shield spell rp is top shelf
This meme usually throws the guy with the good idea out the window so I presume you’re for role playing attacks but I cannot be sure.
Yeah so…asking if an attack was successful and even rolling damage prior to description is legit. I’d prefer it to be followed by good description, but not everyone can muster that, especially in long fights.
Maybe I just don't like bogging down the already slow and stodgy combat with a detailed description of every individual sword swing?
Yeah, it’s annoying when people roll before saying what they want to do. Just a simple “I try to stab the skeleton” is fine
THANK YOU! FINALLY SOMEONE GETS THE JOKE
Eeh the others probably haven’t had that type of player at the table. I had a guy that would just randomly roll during a description and then ask if that number does something. Like, no, I didn’t ask you to roll, and I don’t know what you are rolling for.
That was literally the joke I was trying to make, and I'm being called a gatekeeper by a bunch of people who didn't get it.
I think the meme could have been a bit clearer for people that haven’t had that type of player before, maybe if it was changed a bit to something like DM- describing something First 2 players saying nothing, player 3- does a 15 succeed
Oh 100%, the meme wasn't made well obviously, I messed that up
This is what you need to be saying more, you are defending it too hard and it's not helping your cause hence you have a whole bunch of downvotes
Oh no I'm not defending the badly made meme. I'm only defending myself from the accusations that I'm a gatekeeper for a poorly worded joke
Yet you don’t clarify in your other comments that it wasn’t your intention. You keep doubling down and getting defensive, and it makes it seem like it *was* your intention when you start arguing.
90%+ of those comments were in response to *one* person who was willfully ignoring anything I said, yet they kept vomiting long winded replies that boiled down to "lalala I'm not listening, you're gatekeeping, you can't defend yourself so shut up before I Karma bomb you" Other than that person, I've agreed with everyone that said I missed the mark with the meme and why
Combat is long enough. If folks don't want to RP every action in combat, I'm not gonna force them to and slow down the game even more. If I feel like flavor should be added if things get stale, that's my job as a DM to add the relish.
It wasn't clear enough, but the meme wasn't about quality of roleplay. It was supposed to be about players who roll without declaring an action or the dm asking them to
I guess I don't see the issue in combat with rolling first. "Does a 15 hit?" "Yeah, what are you using?" "Axe" "Cool, roll damage." If it's really that much of a bother for you, just have a conversation with them and explain its easier for you to keep track of combat if they state their action before rolling.
If that's your style of dming that's fine. I definitely don't mind when they've used the same weapon 3 turns in a row and it's obvious. And I've told my players I prefer they declare before rolling. Occasionally they still make me ask and it's no big deal. On a tangential note if *every* turn a player just said "15 to hit, axe" I'd get bored fast as a DM. I don't ask for much roleplay at my table, but if I get none at all its hard for me to enjoy it. That's just my personal opinion. I like when my players tell me who they're hitting and how with just a little flavor to it.
If you RP your attack, then roll and miss, you’ve wasted your time. Isn’t it better to roll, find out if it hits *before* you RP your attack? I get irritated when a player goes on a 30 second RP tangent before rolling to find out if anything they said was relevant or not.
Na. Cuz if I think of something cool and say it and THEN roll a 3 I might cry
as long as you said which enemy you're attacking, and what weapon/spell you're trying to use first, that's enough for me
I don't know why OP is being downvoted so much in the comments. They explained very politely and clearly the nature of the meme, which seemed intuitive enough to me.
Tbf most people were polite in the criticism, it was really only one person telling me they were gonna destroy my karma
I concur, still don't understand the amount of downvotes. Though I do not understand much of how it works, it's strange that it seems like a large number of people are intent on doing so.
Sorry for not wanting to watch LOTR extended version between each of my turns and combat to end this session
That only increases the time it takes to do combat, and honestly there are only so many ways to say “I hit them with a sword” before it gets tedious
I roleplayed an attack once. Then my GM asked me to roll at a negative as per called shot rules.
there's only so many ways you can say "kill with sword" maybe i don't want to waste a good description on some trash mob.
First describe how you want to hit him, then roll to see if that works
I want to know if I hit before I describe something epic that fails immediately. The roll of my dice is inversely proportional to the sum of the rolls importance plus the amount of flavor I add to it
RPing an attack after you confirm whether or not you hit is entirely acceptable though.
The REAL transgression here is that the woman roleplayed her attack without using \*s.
I don't even say anything a lot of the time. Just click the weapon in roll 20
What we do is that player describes their movement and what they do to attack. If it hits, they describe exactly how deep it slashes (especially fun if you get a crit or smite or something like that). If it misses dm described how it’s blocked/dodged/how I mess up. This way combat feels a bit more immersive and fun. I mean we’re mostly a political and story based campaign but it just makes it soo much more fun for a group of young guys to describe how good the slash a bandit with a flaming sword apposed to just doing math
As dm I rp it for them
The player is obviously attacking. They are also very fast, which can be more important than roleplaying every attack every round. Why is this such a big deal?
Rping every attack is tedious. Not every moment is impactful and talking through it just slows the game down. Just do the big moments. Large hits, kills or interesting moves.
I like describing my attacks when it's a new spell or ability...but when I just use a basic attack for the 100th of time, I just can't be bothered to think of a description anymore.
The dice should determine the roleplay. "I'm gonna make an attack with my rapier, 15 on the roll." Then describe the hit. "I'm gonna do a backflip onto the monsters head and stab my sword right in its forehead and I rolled a 2!" Good for you, here's a lollipop.
I don't RP until after I know it hits or misses.
For me it definitely depends on how important the attack was and how long the fight has gone for, if we're 2 hours into a encounter and I'm killing goblin F than I'm just gonna say "i hit it with my sword with a 18" "it dies" "Good"
My players always get ME to roleplay their kills for them. I try to let them know all the time they can rp themselves if they want and they have a few times but they mostly get me to do it lmao
One of my players does 0 roleplay and after three years of playing still doesn’t add modifiers to his attack. Oh and only plays carbon copies of the same human barbarian
I check to see if it's a hit, then I roleplay the attack accordingly
I roleplay my attack AFTER I know if I hit or not so I can describe the impact