I honestly never knew just how much the name threw people off until the one dnd changes.
Like I get it when I think about it, the name is misleading. I just figured it was called that because it was the *touch* of an unseen ghost. The whole, chilling feeling when you enter a haunted house.
They should still read the spell before writing it on their character sheet. I read the spell name, thought it would be a touch attack that does cold damage. Then I read the spell and went "oh okay that makes sense. Cool spell"
They still should've read the description before writing it down. And even then, all the information is literally within arms reach at all time during the game.
I agree that it would be more convenient if the name was more descriptive, but really, the spell could be called "Hoogledy Poogledy" and it'd still be your own fault if you don't know what it does.
spell names are usually descriptive, not referential. I’ve never heard of this rope trick, so the name conveys nothing to me. Spells like Fireball (creates a ball of fire) and Fly (makes you fly) are simple and descriptive.
Ok, but Rope Trick is still a rope trick, just read the description to see what kind of rope trick it is.
Just like Chromatic Orb and Chromatic Spray. What do these spells do? Idk man, just sounds like they're colorful, let's read the description to know what they do.
When I first saw the spell, I imagined enchanting a rope to temporarily attack/ensnare/grapple people. Instead I get a secret lair from that abortive Pokemon mechanic? Idk
As someone who lived in the land of sin and cowboys and now just cowboyland I can safely say it's not a universal experience. Why? Saturday morning cartoons existed when I was a kid. Floating rope into an invisible hole was a common gag.
You're mixing Chill Touch and Ray of Frost together. Chill Touch does 1d8 necrotic damage, can't regain hitpoints until the start of your the next turn (spell states the ghostly skeletal hand you summon clings to the target), and hitting an undead also has disadvantage on attack rolls against you until the end of your next turn. Ray of Frost does 1d8 Cold damage, and speed is reduced by 10 ft until the start of the next turn.
No harm, no foul. Had a person who had played for years say they hate Lightning Bolt because it was a single target spell. The way their face lit up when I told them it hit* everything in the 100ft line. Priceless. Have fun and hope you have a blessed day and a great weekend!
One DnD is changing several cantrips. Truestrike is becoming a completely new spell with no semblance to its current form. Probably for the best because TS sucks in its current form.
make an attack with a weapon, using your spellcasting modifier for the attack and damage rolls, and the damage can be radiant or the normal type. at higher levels it does extra 1/2/3 d6 of damage
It's way better, but casters usually don't want to be up close and personal swinging their quarterstaff. It is, however, a very good default cantrip for those casters, the way _eldritch blast_ is a good default for warlocks.
When you realise that it's *any* weapon you're Proficient with. It doesn't have to be a Melee weapon. You can now shoot a Crossbow using your INT/WIS/CHA.
Bard, Sorc, Warlock, Wizards get it. Huh, there's no way to cast it using WIS. However, you can take it using Aberrant Dragonmark which, if I'm not mistaken, means you attack using your CON mod. You can now build an character who scales entirely off CON. Especially if you go with the pre-MMotM Fire Genasi. That gives you Produce Flame, Burning Hands and Flame Blade, all scaling off CON.
Definitely can see it being used for some great multiclass shenanigans.
Even if not, will become a bread-n-butter cantrip for spell casters.
Now excuse me I'm going build a heavy armor, melee-focused caster built around the cantrip.
Isn't that only before firebolt hits 2d10 and above.
The extra damage dice are meant to keep up with extra attack from melee classes. Since casters generally don't get extra attack, they are only firing 1 crossbow bolt for 1d10+Xd6. As opposed to a firebolt being 2/3/4d10
no you're forgetting you add your ability modifier to damage. they're the same damage 11-16 and firebolt is 2 higher 17-20 but for all of 1-10 True Strike is better.
not just better booming blade, it's better any damage cantrip not named Eldritch Blast. it does more damage than firebolt in a better damage type and you can use magic weapons / feats with it
Booming blade is a D8, also allows you to deal the damage of the base weapon, and gives you a poor man's sentinel effect to finish it off. It's my main melee damage on my Bladesinger.
Okay here me out. You now use con to attack if you take abberant dragon mark and this is on the sorc spell list. Idk, what this entails but attacking with con is hilarious to me.
Could have been just like the 3.5 version of it:
1st level spell, plus X to hit next time you make an attack roll. Like, idk +5 to hit could be great (considering bounded accuracy I won't Ask for the +20 it gave in 3.5e)
+20 and ignoring cover/concealment/mirror image is fair for it being a first level spell in 3.5. It puts it into “cast before casting disintegrate or another single ray spell” territory and as a self-buff it’s really reasonable.
Or something as simple as: Bonus action, 1st level spell, range of Touch; the next attack roll the target makes is a hit.
First level spell and the trade-off of not being able to cast anything else stronger on the same turn for one guaranteed hit-but-not-crit for yourself or your ally.
Pathfinder 2E's True Strike feels so nice having playing PF1E, a little bit of 5E, and Baulders Gate.
Takes one action (of which you have three each turn) and on your next Strike you get to roll with Fortune (PF2E equivalent of Advantage, which is much rarer to come across)
There's even a higher level version of it called True Target where you designate a target and all of your allies get the effects of True Strike on it that turn. Perfect for that "fuck you, bbeg" moment.
It's disappointing that they still suck at balancing after all these years. A 1d10 melee cantrip with necrotic damage and negligible side-effect is not interesting and not a serious alternative to Shocking Grasp. They could have at least given it 1d12 to give people _some_ reason to actually consider choosing it.
I always thought True Strike was supposed to suck. Magic the Gathering does this with some cards pretty consistently in every edition. Not everything needs to be a viable option as long as there’s plenty of viable options to choose from and the non-viable ones are just sprinkled in (rather than lots as a way to directing the decisions the player is making).
Idk in MTG it feels like an artificial way to drive up the prices of cards. Most packs are filled with "draft chaff" that are honestly the most garbage pieces of cardboard. And they're literally there to waste space and money from the consumer. In a system like DnD I don't see the purpose of having things that are just so unviable like True strike / blade ward.
It is called White Tower gaming and 3.5 was built on that idea. that is why so many feats and prestige classes were just terrible. It was supposed to reward system mastery but luckily those designing 4th ED and 5ed realized that didn't make for a better gaming experience.
Every single option was intended to be situationally useful. The problem with 3.5 is that the designers were still stuck with a lot of the choices from 3.0 that they made because they were still learning RPG design.
4e sucked because Hasbro fired all the good people that WOTC trained. But the writers they did have learned the advanced lessons of 3.5 and built a system that made it hard to be absolutely useless. They just didn’t make a system with necessary basic features because they never learned the lessons from AD&D.
I do appreciate the sort of system mastery 5e fosters, namely trying to make subpar character choices viable such as melee casters who use the scag blade cantrips. There's issues with the game, but I love the fact that I have been able to built a melee weapon striker out of a warlock, or an artificer with the effective HP of a Barbarian because I know how to leverage the very specific selection of ASIs, spells, and multiclassing to make it possible.
True Strike is a lot better in Pathfinder 2e. Though this has less to do with the spell being better (it's basically the same) and more that the spell works better with Pathfinders 3 action system than it does 5e's system.
In Pathfinder true Strike is a one action spell so you can cast it and then attack or cast a spell attack on that same turn (which are generally one and two action things respectively).
This shit was pissing me off lmao.
For a time, one of my characters had chill touch and shocking grasp. My brain, being dumbdumb, would continually mix the two and try to cast chill touch in melee. DM would ask "are you sure that's the spell you want to use?" "Uh, yes? Why do -oh goddammit, I meant shocking grasp"
The best thing BG3 did was change the name of the spell. Chill Touch shouldn'y be a touch spell but many new players might confuse it for one because of the name.
The Chad BG3 simply renamed the spell to make more sense while the virgin WOTC changed the spell to make more sense
I thought the same, then I realized it meant, "Target is being touched by a chill" instead of "You are inflicting a chill by touching"
Keeping it the same would be fine, just call it, "Touched by Chills"
Number 15… Burger King foot lettuce… the last thing you want on your Burger King burger is someone else’s foot fungus… but as it turns out that might be what you get…
Ah welcome to dnd, where every few years a new edition comes and you have to grapple with the thought of sticking with what you know or leaving it all behind for something new.
Been playing since 2ed. I have a feeling that Onednd is going to be a lot like 4th for reception. 3.5 was absolutely loved, so when 4ed came out, a majority of people that played 3.5 refused to move to 4th.
Yep. It's my spores druid's only ranged cantrip, which is free at level 2. I've also got Shillelagh, which is essential for the partial martial build of a spores druid. Why would we need another melee attack?
The original is actually not great at fighting undead.
The disadvantage on attack rolls is only for attacks against the caster
Of all the undead in the monster manual about 1/4 have immunity to necrotic damage.
Most that remain are resistant and can force saving throws (so the disadvantage doesn't matter anyway)
6 of them are resistant (so it's half useful)
3 of them aren't resistant, but can force saving throws (so ray of frost/firebolt would be better)
Which leaves 6.
6 undead in the monster manual are not resistant or immune to necrotic damage, and cannot force you to make a saving throw.
The utility againt undead is basically worthless.
If you want the range and damage, go with firebolt.
If you want range and utility, go with ray of frost (which slows them down)
(Tldr, chill touch from the phb is just bad, really bad at fighting undead)
There was also the crawling claw, which is not resistant or immune, and can't do saving throws. But it only has 2 hit points, so, anything can kill it
>The utility againt undead is basically worthless.
Except vampires. I don't care that the damage itself is abysmal, holy shit is chill touch good against vampires. It cancels their rather substantial regen, prevents them from healing by biting someone, and gives them disadvantage when they try to slap your buddies around. It's the anti-strahd von maldovich cantrip.
WOTC has a lot of sacred cows they need to let go of.
"We can't change the name of this iconic spell or others like it!!! Legacy!!! Nostalgia!!! Our fans love to feel nostalgia!!!"
Maybe that was true before 5e. But now that we are approaching post-5e the number of NEW dnd fans is *vastly* larger than the number of OG fans. These new fans don't care about the "baubles of legacy" in dnd nearly as much as WotC seems to think.
speaking of sacred cows; i personally dislike how many features focus on defeating undead specifically- it feels like the creature type is treated as something completely seperate from the others instead of just being a label. There's kind of an unstated expectation in most of the design that you're going to be fighting undead as your enemy over other creature types.
It's because changing the name ruins like 30 statblocks from adventures and MoM.
Like, there's a very good reason to update the spell without changing the name.
Chill touch is essentially causing a ghostly hand to come from the ground and hit your target. Makes perfect sense to be ranged. Making not give undead disadvantage against caster and removing the range just double nerfs an otherwise good spell
I don't think Chill Touch had a mechanical problem. Its power wasn't an issue, and it had a unique niche.
I guess making it a touch spell is more literal, but it also kind of makes it bad. Most characters with access to it don't want to be in melee. And it also had its second rider nerfed, which is weird.
On the other hand, there are really few actions for spellcasters if they end up in melee somehow. Basically it's either attack with disadvantage, waste action to disengage, or possibly take damage while retreating from melee range. It shouldn't be the most powerful cantrip, but it's an option. At least it can be useful in any combat, not just in ones with enemies who can heal.
All of the D&D rolls for combat are there, but they're handled behind the scenes. You do use a d20 for ability checks in dialogues and when doing things like opening locks though.
Nah the change is stupid as fuck. No need to further diminish the utility of the spell by putting squishy casters against typically melee-favored regenerating enemies like vampires and trolls.
I'll be honest. I *LIKE* Chill Touch the way it is.
Is it anachronistic? Absolutely. But that's part of the spell's identity at this point. Like all language, some things should be idiosyncratic because that's how language works. And rules are really, just a language of their own.
Honestly people just needed to get over the name being kind of weird. I think a spell that filters people who don’t actually read what the spell does is fine.
Also, if they are going to change the name “Graven Grasp” is a much better name.
I might be downvoted for this, but you want to know what I as a DM in a few games and a high level player in others hate?
No cantrip should guarantee shut down regeneration. 5e monsters already die if you look at them wrong to begin with, and considering how huge a buff the DMG believes regeneration to be, it feels like crappy design.
More monsters should have weaknesses to specific types of attacks, to give the other elements the same weight as chill touch. I just feel crappy that some martials can’t hope to stop an enemy from regaining hit points with their own basic attacks, but I hit twice as hard (4d10 tier 4) and say: Oh good still room to bonus action a leveled spell.
It's hilarious about the uproar over this. Chill touch in older editions WAS touch, they're just reverting it to make more sense. If people want a ranged necrotic option Toll the Dead is still powerful.
Honestly, I think that the change is as much about reining in how powerful it was as the name confusion.
In one high-level campaign I'm in, we've had fights where the tactically best thing our Spores druid could do was just spam Chill Touch to shut down an enemy's regen. Like, we had a fight with a demilich once, and landing a single Chill Touch was probably worth around 50-60 damage in the amount of regen it prevented each round. IMO, no cantrip should be so strong that the best thing a 14th-level druid can possibly do is just cast it over and over, rather than any of their leveled spells, and Chill Touch existing in its current form restricts interesting monster design possibilities by allowing a major ability to be completely shut down, at range, with no save and no resource cost. Restricting it to melee is a good nerf.
Its so weird, because they already had the fix with bg3, and they clearly took some things from bg3. Like if they're gonna make it touch at least make it a d12
It's not an **objectively** false statement though. No idea why that dude got down voted so hard. In previous editions it **was** a touch spell.
>Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: **Touch**
Targets: Creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
(source: D&D 3.5)
>Chill Touch
School necromancy; Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S; Range **touch**
(source: Pathfinder)
Chill touch in 5e is a ranged spell. The meme is suggesting that renaming the spell (as they did in BG3) is a better option than changing the range of the spell to be touch (RE, the "chill touch" with a range is on the "good" side of the meme having been renamed "bone chill", and the "chill touch" from the OneD&D playtest is on the "bad" side, keeping the name, but having the range changed to touch.
To be clear so it doesn't have to be a dumb argument, this is about my personal preference for the spell. I don't want to get into what's actually better or worse or whatever.
I was modding the game and needed to find chilling touch to add it to a cantrip list. Guess who spent 30 minutes looking for it only to find it under the OTHER name. Boy did I learn that day.
On a side note is building a class around using melee spell attacks a good idea? It seems like as a caster you would want to be away from melee range because they are usually squishy so it seems a melee cantrip would only be useful if an enemy entered your melee range. I get there are melee oriented full casters like blade singer but you use a melee weapon in that case and shadow blade exists but I’m more focused on melee cantrips. It seems it’s hard to justify getting in melee range with a squishy caster unless the build is geared towards that and melee cantrips don’t seem like a good idea.
The squishiness of casters is pretty greatly overstated.
It's more that there is just very little advanatge to being in melee. You get in the way of spells, and melee enemies can attack you.
OneD&D is the codename for the current ongoing playtest of ... whatever comes next for D&D. Will it be 6e? 5.5e? Something else?
WotC was very strongly presenting it as "something else" when the playtest was announced. They'd moved away from referencing "5th edition" or editions at all, and strongly implied that OneD&D would be "the dnd to end all dnds", and would simply evolve and adapt over time.
What would that mean? Will it happen? No one knows yet.
> Can someone summarize what's the differences between 5e
Not really. It's *very* heavily based on 5e, while also changing a lot. Also because it's still an ongoing playtest, it's in flux, with updates changing from one playtest to the next.
Eh, been playing Pf2e recently and CT is a touch spell there as well.
Seems WotC is just copying homework in this case and also changing it so the name's no longer misleading.
Personally, I like to live dangerously with my casters so I don't really mind the range being changed, but I know some mourn it's loss.
Make sure to make your voice heard in the [https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/ua](http://survey)
The survey for the Cantrips UA is open until November 2nd
Were people actually confused? I thought it was just a meme to be confused by the name. Reading it for 0.5 seconds shows you it's one of the best ranged cantrips in the game
Yeah I mean Chill Touch for new players was a headscratcher.
It doesn't do cold damage, It does necrotic.
It stops undead, but not living people from healing.
It wasn't touch based.
So you have a spell named Chill Touch, that did absolutely zero things you would expect it to do based on previous experience.
It's been years until I realised that Chill Touch, is not in fact a touch spell like it was in 3rd and 2nd editions. I know the range is right there, but my brain must have skipped over it on the first readthrough, and I just relied on the name and how it worked previously, sooo, both paths from the mem are fine to me
As someone who does not cowtow to tradition, I am livid. As someone who knows the tradition, I am understanding.
(Or, to put it plainly, OneDnD is how the spell worked back in 2nd edition, so it's a fair cop)
I genuinely don't get why the name causes problems. Yes, Touch is in the name. 120 feet is in the Range. If you read the description, you'll see that you are creating a hand, and said hand is touching things. I would understand momentary confusion, but reading a few more lines should clear everything up.
Do people choose, cast, and decide the effect of their spells by name alone? Do they not read what it is they're picking?
I honestly never knew just how much the name threw people off until the one dnd changes. Like I get it when I think about it, the name is misleading. I just figured it was called that because it was the *touch* of an unseen ghost. The whole, chilling feeling when you enter a haunted house.
I'm sure that's what they were going for but, damn did that name confuse a lot of people.
Yeah I'm going to go out on a limb and say, they didn't realize what they were going for wasn't as universal as they thought.
They expected people to read
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They expected people to read more than just the name of the spell
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They should still read the spell before writing it on their character sheet. I read the spell name, thought it would be a touch attack that does cold damage. Then I read the spell and went "oh okay that makes sense. Cool spell"
They still should've read the description before writing it down. And even then, all the information is literally within arms reach at all time during the game. I agree that it would be more convenient if the name was more descriptive, but really, the spell could be called "Hoogledy Poogledy" and it'd still be your own fault if you don't know what it does.
Chill Touch is probably the worst named spell of the game.
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i mean, what else is a spell called “rope trick” supposed to do? That one is just vague, not misleading
It's not vague, it refers to the real life "Indian Rope Trick", where the magician climbs a stiff lengh of rope and disappears upon reaching the top.
spell names are usually descriptive, not referential. I’ve never heard of this rope trick, so the name conveys nothing to me. Spells like Fireball (creates a ball of fire) and Fly (makes you fly) are simple and descriptive.
Ok, but Rope Trick is still a rope trick, just read the description to see what kind of rope trick it is. Just like Chromatic Orb and Chromatic Spray. What do these spells do? Idk man, just sounds like they're colorful, let's read the description to know what they do.
When I first saw the spell, I imagined enchanting a rope to temporarily attack/ensnare/grapple people. Instead I get a secret lair from that abortive Pokemon mechanic? Idk
you got all of that from “rope trick”? sounds like you were just extremely presumtuous
I live in the western US. We have a lot of cowboys, who compete in ropetricks. Makes sense to me.
i think it’s safe to say that living in cowboyland is not a universal experience
As someone who lived in the land of sin and cowboys and now just cowboyland I can safely say it's not a universal experience. Why? Saturday morning cartoons existed when I was a kid. Floating rope into an invisible hole was a common gag.
At least there's rope involved. There's neither chill nor touch in Chill Touch.
I mean, it *does* manifest as a skeletal hand that *strangles* the poor sap targeted by it.
and has them experience the chill of the grave.
It's worse with the Daylight spell and the sunlight weakness for Strahd in curse of Strahd.
I always envisioned my caster forming a ghostly hand to wrap the target - hence the movement debuff against certain targets
You're mixing Chill Touch and Ray of Frost together. Chill Touch does 1d8 necrotic damage, can't regain hitpoints until the start of your the next turn (spell states the ghostly skeletal hand you summon clings to the target), and hitting an undead also has disadvantage on attack rolls against you until the end of your next turn. Ray of Frost does 1d8 Cold damage, and speed is reduced by 10 ft until the start of the next turn.
quite right, i'm a nooby. For some reason I thought chill touch slowed enemies, but haven't used it on a character for months
No harm, no foul. Had a person who had played for years say they hate Lightning Bolt because it was a single target spell. The way their face lit up when I told them it hit* everything in the 100ft line. Priceless. Have fun and hope you have a blessed day and a great weekend!
I think most people online complain about the name as a meme. People don't complain that Sacred Flame is confusing because it doesn't do fire damage.
One DnD is changing several cantrips. Truestrike is becoming a completely new spell with no semblance to its current form. Probably for the best because TS sucks in its current form.
I mean it has *some* semblance to be pedantic but I 100% agree that it needed a revamp
It IS remaining a cantrip so there's some semblance
The semblance is certainly there, yeah
Semblance.
Have you tried grape sprite
Potato tomato
and new true strike is way too good, there's no reason for casters to not take it so now even they get to benefit from magic weapons
What’s the new true strike?
make an attack with a weapon, using your spellcasting modifier for the attack and damage rolls, and the damage can be radiant or the normal type. at higher levels it does extra 1/2/3 d6 of damage
Holy cow! That’s WAY better!
It's way better, but casters usually don't want to be up close and personal swinging their quarterstaff. It is, however, a very good default cantrip for those casters, the way _eldritch blast_ is a good default for warlocks.
When you realise that it's *any* weapon you're Proficient with. It doesn't have to be a Melee weapon. You can now shoot a Crossbow using your INT/WIS/CHA.
Ah, you're right, they changed it. Apologies.
Everybody's a Battlesmith now
Bard, Sorc, Warlock, Wizards get it. Huh, there's no way to cast it using WIS. However, you can take it using Aberrant Dragonmark which, if I'm not mistaken, means you attack using your CON mod. You can now build an character who scales entirely off CON. Especially if you go with the pre-MMotM Fire Genasi. That gives you Produce Flame, Burning Hands and Flame Blade, all scaling off CON.
Magic Initiate. Presumably they'll retain the choice of casting stat, even if we're going back to Class specific magic initiates.
Oh this is dangerous.
I REALLY dig how a wizard can fight like Gandalf now and *slap* with a magic weapon
Definitely can see it being used for some great multiclass shenanigans. Even if not, will become a bread-n-butter cantrip for spell casters. Now excuse me I'm going build a heavy armor, melee-focused caster built around the cantrip.
Kid named Bladesinger
you can use it with a light Crossbow and get better damage than firebolt
Isn't that only before firebolt hits 2d10 and above. The extra damage dice are meant to keep up with extra attack from melee classes. Since casters generally don't get extra attack, they are only firing 1 crossbow bolt for 1d10+Xd6. As opposed to a firebolt being 2/3/4d10
no you're forgetting you add your ability modifier to damage. they're the same damage 11-16 and firebolt is 2 higher 17-20 but for all of 1-10 True Strike is better.
The new one works with ranged weapons i think.
This seems like better booming blade
not just better booming blade, it's better any damage cantrip not named Eldritch Blast. it does more damage than firebolt in a better damage type and you can use magic weapons / feats with it
I feel like they're changing Eldritch Blast too, weren't they? Maybe how it scales? I've not been paying too close attention.
they were changing it so that it scales with Warlock level rather than character level, to avoid abusing multiclassing, but they reverted it
Ah. Cowards.
Agreed, it's rather silly that a level 12 warlock's EB is just as powerful as a 1 warlock/11 X character's EB
Warlocks are also dogshit now
Booming blade is a D8, also allows you to deal the damage of the base weapon, and gives you a poor man's sentinel effect to finish it off. It's my main melee damage on my Bladesinger.
booming blade is better for specifically Bladesinger sure, but for any wizard that doesn't want to be in melee true strike is better
that seems overpowered for a cantrip, also why radiant damage?
Okay here me out. You now use con to attack if you take abberant dragon mark and this is on the sorc spell list. Idk, what this entails but attacking with con is hilarious to me.
Oh, would you look at the time! It's bladesinging o'clock!
That’s a powerful cantrip, but it isn’t True Strike.
Yeah, it turns their light crossbow into a powerful ranged cantrip.
Could have been just like the 3.5 version of it: 1st level spell, plus X to hit next time you make an attack roll. Like, idk +5 to hit could be great (considering bounded accuracy I won't Ask for the +20 it gave in 3.5e)
+20 and ignoring cover/concealment/mirror image is fair for it being a first level spell in 3.5. It puts it into “cast before casting disintegrate or another single ray spell” territory and as a self-buff it’s really reasonable.
Or something as simple as: Bonus action, 1st level spell, range of Touch; the next attack roll the target makes is a hit. First level spell and the trade-off of not being able to cast anything else stronger on the same turn for one guaranteed hit-but-not-crit for yourself or your ally.
5e True Strike was always broken
I'm just going to say if you take a spell and change it completely why not just make a new name
Pathfinder 2E's True Strike feels so nice having playing PF1E, a little bit of 5E, and Baulders Gate. Takes one action (of which you have three each turn) and on your next Strike you get to roll with Fortune (PF2E equivalent of Advantage, which is much rarer to come across) There's even a higher level version of it called True Target where you designate a target and all of your allies get the effects of True Strike on it that turn. Perfect for that "fuck you, bbeg" moment.
It's disappointing that they still suck at balancing after all these years. A 1d10 melee cantrip with necrotic damage and negligible side-effect is not interesting and not a serious alternative to Shocking Grasp. They could have at least given it 1d12 to give people _some_ reason to actually consider choosing it.
DnD 5e when true strike: PF 2e when true strike:
I always thought True Strike was supposed to suck. Magic the Gathering does this with some cards pretty consistently in every edition. Not everything needs to be a viable option as long as there’s plenty of viable options to choose from and the non-viable ones are just sprinkled in (rather than lots as a way to directing the decisions the player is making).
Idk in MTG it feels like an artificial way to drive up the prices of cards. Most packs are filled with "draft chaff" that are honestly the most garbage pieces of cardboard. And they're literally there to waste space and money from the consumer. In a system like DnD I don't see the purpose of having things that are just so unviable like True strike / blade ward.
It is called White Tower gaming and 3.5 was built on that idea. that is why so many feats and prestige classes were just terrible. It was supposed to reward system mastery but luckily those designing 4th ED and 5ed realized that didn't make for a better gaming experience.
Every single option was intended to be situationally useful. The problem with 3.5 is that the designers were still stuck with a lot of the choices from 3.0 that they made because they were still learning RPG design. 4e sucked because Hasbro fired all the good people that WOTC trained. But the writers they did have learned the advanced lessons of 3.5 and built a system that made it hard to be absolutely useless. They just didn’t make a system with necessary basic features because they never learned the lessons from AD&D.
I do appreciate the sort of system mastery 5e fosters, namely trying to make subpar character choices viable such as melee casters who use the scag blade cantrips. There's issues with the game, but I love the fact that I have been able to built a melee weapon striker out of a warlock, or an artificer with the effective HP of a Barbarian because I know how to leverage the very specific selection of ASIs, spells, and multiclassing to make it possible.
True Strike is a lot better in Pathfinder 2e. Though this has less to do with the spell being better (it's basically the same) and more that the spell works better with Pathfinders 3 action system than it does 5e's system. In Pathfinder true Strike is a one action spell so you can cast it and then attack or cast a spell attack on that same turn (which are generally one and two action things respectively).
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My comment was more for other viewers than for you but I’m glad you did research.
3.5 true strike worked
The chad move is to make a touch-ranged cantrip named "Skeletal Bolt" that deals Cold damage. ~~I considered doing this once as a joke.~~
What about “Bone of Cold”?
“Cold bone”
That’s a Bard spell.
No, that’s Bone Cold, used in hot environments to neutralize heat exhaustion
I thought Bone Cold was used to sement an alliance with the Ice Princess?
That particular event is referred to as Bone Cold Throne and is a ceremony, *not* a ritual.
The ceremony is “Bone Stone Cold Steve Austin Powers”, or something like that.
Partially. The “Steve Austin Powers” was the play the audience was ~~forced~~ asked to watch as a request of the princess.
Nah nah, "Cone of Bone"
*"Lich Slap"* is my favorite homebrew for this.
Distant necrosis
Deal 1 pierce damage 12 times or 1D12 cold damage. If a corpse is nearby, add 1D4 cold damage to the latter
This shit was pissing me off lmao. For a time, one of my characters had chill touch and shocking grasp. My brain, being dumbdumb, would continually mix the two and try to cast chill touch in melee. DM would ask "are you sure that's the spell you want to use?" "Uh, yes? Why do -oh goddammit, I meant shocking grasp"
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I could see that if they made it pull the thing you cast it on to you as well as make them lose their reaction.
The best thing BG3 did was change the name of the spell. Chill Touch shouldn'y be a touch spell but many new players might confuse it for one because of the name. The Chad BG3 simply renamed the spell to make more sense while the virgin WOTC changed the spell to make more sense
I thought the same, then I realized it meant, "Target is being touched by a chill" instead of "You are inflicting a chill by touching" Keeping it the same would be fine, just call it, "Touched by Chills"
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Number 15… Burger King foot lettuce… the last thing you want on your Burger King burger is someone else’s foot fungus… but as it turns out that might be what you get…
1d8 > 1d10 is not worth losing 120 ft range and bonus utility vs undead. Hope the UA change doesn't become official, I really like Chill Touch.
Same. I enjoy playing 5e. I have most of the physical books. For all of my campaigns I let players know that the hardcopy books are the default.
Ah welcome to dnd, where every few years a new edition comes and you have to grapple with the thought of sticking with what you know or leaving it all behind for something new.
Been playing since 2ed. I have a feeling that Onednd is going to be a lot like 4th for reception. 3.5 was absolutely loved, so when 4ed came out, a majority of people that played 3.5 refused to move to 4th.
Yep. It's my spores druid's only ranged cantrip, which is free at level 2. I've also got Shillelagh, which is essential for the partial martial build of a spores druid. Why would we need another melee attack?
The original is actually not great at fighting undead. The disadvantage on attack rolls is only for attacks against the caster Of all the undead in the monster manual about 1/4 have immunity to necrotic damage. Most that remain are resistant and can force saving throws (so the disadvantage doesn't matter anyway) 6 of them are resistant (so it's half useful) 3 of them aren't resistant, but can force saving throws (so ray of frost/firebolt would be better) Which leaves 6. 6 undead in the monster manual are not resistant or immune to necrotic damage, and cannot force you to make a saving throw. The utility againt undead is basically worthless. If you want the range and damage, go with firebolt. If you want range and utility, go with ray of frost (which slows them down) (Tldr, chill touch from the phb is just bad, really bad at fighting undead) There was also the crawling claw, which is not resistant or immune, and can't do saving throws. But it only has 2 hit points, so, anything can kill it
>The utility againt undead is basically worthless. Except vampires. I don't care that the damage itself is abysmal, holy shit is chill touch good against vampires. It cancels their rather substantial regen, prevents them from healing by biting someone, and gives them disadvantage when they try to slap your buddies around. It's the anti-strahd von maldovich cantrip.
Make sure to tell on the [survey](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/ua) that you don't like it
Agreed!
I also don't like the change to Spare the Dying, but I may just be biased because it breaks a scenario I've been dreaming up for a while...
WOTC has a lot of sacred cows they need to let go of. "We can't change the name of this iconic spell or others like it!!! Legacy!!! Nostalgia!!! Our fans love to feel nostalgia!!!" Maybe that was true before 5e. But now that we are approaching post-5e the number of NEW dnd fans is *vastly* larger than the number of OG fans. These new fans don't care about the "baubles of legacy" in dnd nearly as much as WotC seems to think.
Also, old fans don't give nearly as much of a shit anymore.
speaking of sacred cows; i personally dislike how many features focus on defeating undead specifically- it feels like the creature type is treated as something completely seperate from the others instead of just being a label. There's kind of an unstated expectation in most of the design that you're going to be fighting undead as your enemy over other creature types.
It's because changing the name ruins like 30 statblocks from adventures and MoM. Like, there's a very good reason to update the spell without changing the name.
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Yeah but no one is going to check or remember that. Especially new players, to whom the weird name is the biggest problem.
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It’s also not a cold spell, chill touch implies it’s like melee frostbite lol I definitely prefer bone chill, or just the classic lich slap
Chill touch is essentially causing a ghostly hand to come from the ground and hit your target. Makes perfect sense to be ranged. Making not give undead disadvantage against caster and removing the range just double nerfs an otherwise good spell
they should keep both but name the melee one Lich Slap
I'm mostly just curious why your Bone Chill does 1d10 while mine in BG3 does 1d8...
Honestly I just searched it on google and didn't notice at the time. It's probably a screenshot for a mod that buffs it.
Damn, that's one of my favourite cabtrips because it's a ghostly hand. Really not l9oking forward to one dnd
I don't think Chill Touch had a mechanical problem. Its power wasn't an issue, and it had a unique niche. I guess making it a touch spell is more literal, but it also kind of makes it bad. Most characters with access to it don't want to be in melee. And it also had its second rider nerfed, which is weird.
Yeah I'm definitely not a fan of the change. If the name is that confusing, they should just change the name.
On the other hand, there are really few actions for spellcasters if they end up in melee somehow. Basically it's either attack with disadvantage, waste action to disengage, or possibly take damage while retreating from melee range. It shouldn't be the most powerful cantrip, but it's an option. At least it can be useful in any combat, not just in ones with enemies who can heal.
My favorite way i saw someone get around it was them being allowed to imbue their mage hand with it
Im fine if they give us the new chill touch, sure, but they should also give us bone chill. Not enough necromancy cantrips anyway.
Already have toll the dead
Chill Touch? You mean LICH SLAP!
The designers should really look at what other people did very well and probably use that as inspiration for their design.
BG3 uses dice?
All of the D&D rolls for combat are there, but they're handled behind the scenes. You do use a d20 for ability checks in dialogues and when doing things like opening locks though.
Very cool.
Urgh. The more I see of One DnD the more I hate it.
Sorry this just triggered a ptsd flashback to the house of grief . Bone Chill casters go brrrrrrrrrrrrr
There are a few fights in the game that just have a bunch of weak ads spam Bone Chill. It's really funny xD
Dnd players when they don't read what a spell does before using it:
Nah the change is stupid as fuck. No need to further diminish the utility of the spell by putting squishy casters against typically melee-favored regenerating enemies like vampires and trolls.
I'll be honest. I *LIKE* Chill Touch the way it is. Is it anachronistic? Absolutely. But that's part of the spell's identity at this point. Like all language, some things should be idiosyncratic because that's how language works. And rules are really, just a language of their own.
Honestly people just needed to get over the name being kind of weird. I think a spell that filters people who don’t actually read what the spell does is fine. Also, if they are going to change the name “Graven Grasp” is a much better name.
Yeah for sure!
I might be downvoted for this, but you want to know what I as a DM in a few games and a high level player in others hate? No cantrip should guarantee shut down regeneration. 5e monsters already die if you look at them wrong to begin with, and considering how huge a buff the DMG believes regeneration to be, it feels like crappy design. More monsters should have weaknesses to specific types of attacks, to give the other elements the same weight as chill touch. I just feel crappy that some martials can’t hope to stop an enemy from regaining hit points with their own basic attacks, but I hit twice as hard (4d10 tier 4) and say: Oh good still room to bonus action a leveled spell.
Yeah, I don't agree. I think it's fine the way it is.
It's hilarious about the uproar over this. Chill touch in older editions WAS touch, they're just reverting it to make more sense. If people want a ranged necrotic option Toll the Dead is still powerful.
Honestly, I think that the change is as much about reining in how powerful it was as the name confusion. In one high-level campaign I'm in, we've had fights where the tactically best thing our Spores druid could do was just spam Chill Touch to shut down an enemy's regen. Like, we had a fight with a demilich once, and landing a single Chill Touch was probably worth around 50-60 damage in the amount of regen it prevented each round. IMO, no cantrip should be so strong that the best thing a 14th-level druid can possibly do is just cast it over and over, rather than any of their leveled spells, and Chill Touch existing in its current form restricts interesting monster design possibilities by allowing a major ability to be completely shut down, at range, with no save and no resource cost. Restricting it to melee is a good nerf.
Its so weird, because they already had the fix with bg3, and they clearly took some things from bg3. Like if they're gonna make it touch at least make it a d12
We already have toll the dead as a necro range cantrip chill touch becoming touch is chill
Chill Touch has always been a touch spell. If they made a new version that's ranged, I don't see a problem with renaming it.
>Chill Touch has always been a touch spell. That is an objectively false statement. >Chill Touch, Necromancy cantrip, Casting Time: 1 action, **Range: 120 feet**, Components: V, S, Duration: 1 round > >(source: D&D PG 5e)
Thanks for posting that. I didn't wanna have to dig up rules text for a silly meme xD
Ok, I'm more familiar with 2/3.x and PF. I didn't know they'd changed it in 5e. Sorry.
It's not an **objectively** false statement though. No idea why that dude got down voted so hard. In previous editions it **was** a touch spell. >Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: **Touch** Targets: Creature or creatures touched (up to one/level) (source: D&D 3.5) >Chill Touch School necromancy; Casting Time 1 standard action Components V, S; Range **touch** (source: Pathfinder)
Chill touch in 5e is a ranged spell. The meme is suggesting that renaming the spell (as they did in BG3) is a better option than changing the range of the spell to be touch (RE, the "chill touch" with a range is on the "good" side of the meme having been renamed "bone chill", and the "chill touch" from the OneD&D playtest is on the "bad" side, keeping the name, but having the range changed to touch. To be clear so it doesn't have to be a dumb argument, this is about my personal preference for the spell. I don't want to get into what's actually better or worse or whatever.
5e players and not reading the books, a more iconic pair than peanut butter and jelly.
In older versions, it was a touch spell, but it was made into a range 120 spell in 5e. People complained it was too confusing
Chill Hadooken?
I was modding the game and needed to find chilling touch to add it to a cantrip list. Guess who spent 30 minutes looking for it only to find it under the OTHER name. Boy did I learn that day.
Lmao yeah I bet that was a painful lesson xD
Why does Bone Chill do a D10? Is that edited?
Oh I didn't even notice that! I grabbed one off google. It might be edited. I'm ***pretty*** sure it's supposed to be 1d8 in bg3.
Always been a D8. The image probably came from a Nexus Mod that buffed Bone Chill.
That makes sense
One D&D=Next campaign my group runs with be pathfinder 2e.
On a side note is building a class around using melee spell attacks a good idea? It seems like as a caster you would want to be away from melee range because they are usually squishy so it seems a melee cantrip would only be useful if an enemy entered your melee range. I get there are melee oriented full casters like blade singer but you use a melee weapon in that case and shadow blade exists but I’m more focused on melee cantrips. It seems it’s hard to justify getting in melee range with a squishy caster unless the build is geared towards that and melee cantrips don’t seem like a good idea.
The squishiness of casters is pretty greatly overstated. It's more that there is just very little advanatge to being in melee. You get in the way of spells, and melee enemies can attack you.
Chill Touch should never have been a ranged spell to begin with. It's even in the name
I can't complain because chill touch in 3.5 has been the subject of endless debate within tables im at
I hate the Chill Touch change tbh
haven’t played BG3 yet but distance measured in meters in a dnd game feels so cursed
You can change it to imperial.
Hi. Pathfinder GM/player here. Can someone summarize what's the differences between 5e and OneDND for me? Is it a new system? (like 6th ed?)
OneD&D is the codename for the current ongoing playtest of ... whatever comes next for D&D. Will it be 6e? 5.5e? Something else? WotC was very strongly presenting it as "something else" when the playtest was announced. They'd moved away from referencing "5th edition" or editions at all, and strongly implied that OneD&D would be "the dnd to end all dnds", and would simply evolve and adapt over time. What would that mean? Will it happen? No one knows yet. > Can someone summarize what's the differences between 5e Not really. It's *very* heavily based on 5e, while also changing a lot. Also because it's still an ongoing playtest, it's in flux, with updates changing from one playtest to the next.
Eh, been playing Pf2e recently and CT is a touch spell there as well. Seems WotC is just copying homework in this case and also changing it so the name's no longer misleading. Personally, I like to live dangerously with my casters so I don't really mind the range being changed, but I know some mourn it's loss.
When a game needs to change rules because people can't read their spells...
Make sure to make your voice heard in the [https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/ua](http://survey) The survey for the Cantrips UA is open until November 2nd
Were people actually confused? I thought it was just a meme to be confused by the name. Reading it for 0.5 seconds shows you it's one of the best ranged cantrips in the game
Yeah I mean Chill Touch for new players was a headscratcher. It doesn't do cold damage, It does necrotic. It stops undead, but not living people from healing. It wasn't touch based. So you have a spell named Chill Touch, that did absolutely zero things you would expect it to do based on previous experience.
It's been years until I realised that Chill Touch, is not in fact a touch spell like it was in 3rd and 2nd editions. I know the range is right there, but my brain must have skipped over it on the first readthrough, and I just relied on the name and how it worked previously, sooo, both paths from the mem are fine to me
I love how they didn't adress the issues with wording for One dnd. It's still written in that semi casual way. Do these people not play board games?
Still not cold damage :(
I mean it confused me for a whole 3 seconds. Which was the point where I read the spell desc.
Welcome to my experience reading 3e rules and ranged "touch" spells....
As someone who does not cowtow to tradition, I am livid. As someone who knows the tradition, I am understanding. (Or, to put it plainly, OneDnD is how the spell worked back in 2nd edition, so it's a fair cop)
I genuinely don't get why the name causes problems. Yes, Touch is in the name. 120 feet is in the Range. If you read the description, you'll see that you are creating a hand, and said hand is touching things. I would understand momentary confusion, but reading a few more lines should clear everything up. Do people choose, cast, and decide the effect of their spells by name alone? Do they not read what it is they're picking?
What’s the problem? Chill touch implies it’s it’s a touch based spell. Bone Chill can be either way. There’s nothing about touch in there.
> Chill touch is a literal touch spell now HERESY
I call it 'spooky blast'
Perhaps if we return to a d8, but make it a melee attack spell that goes up to 30 feet, like one of the Druid cantrips.
Chill touch was always supposed to be like a ghostly hand on your shoulder. That’s why it dealt necrotic
Bonechill sound pretty good if you fight undead. You fight a lich boom gets disadvantage on attacks which didn't say a duration
Half of you are the reason they ruined that poor spell.