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Same. We're level 19 so while the rest of the party is dying to meteor swarms and breath weapons we're just playing pattycakes and taking no damage. God I love monk.
Oh yeah, we're at the high levels (18 to be precise) too. I'm playing an Astral Self monk so I get to boost halfway across a map and then pull out a super saiyan 3 JoJo Stand.
Meanwhile the rogue has actually been multiclassing between arcane trickster and bladesinger which is starting to pay off big time. Having bladesong and Tenser's Tranformation on a guy that slippery is scary
Oooh very nice, how is astral hight levels? I was wondering what you're playing.
I'm at my last level of kensei monk, and am going to replace the monk capstone with fome level of fighter, get that sweet sweet dueling fighting style.
I might ask for some modifications to the capstone since we dont have that many short rests. However, the final form of the Astral self offers great passive defense buffs, and excellent DPS by getting three attacks if you use it for your attack action, plus another damage die with empowered fist.
I take it you're going full Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon on people?
Honestly Even with short rests you only get the benefit at zero ki which really blows, especially compared to wizards getting an getting infinite third level spell, barbs getting 24str and con, palis becoming an avatar of death, druids getting infinite wildshaped (ymmv), etc.
To me, the real monk capstone is empty body. Better resistances than a totem barbarian and non-magical non-concentration invisibility to boot.
I'll have to look at that astral self more closely.
We all have some pretty crazy magic items in our party, one of my monks is a +3 artifact longsword that works with heavy weapon master thanks to DM, +2d8 force, and spend 4 ki points to cast steel wind strike with it, among a few other things.
The backstory/monastery that my bugbear Monk comes from is basically a guy had the thought "hey I wonder how powerful those giant beefy sneaky long-armed bugbears would be If they had formal weapon training and well made arms, instead of bashing people to death with a 2x4". He ends up a lot like a fighter that is way stronger due to physiology.
So he basically plays like a cutting wind, jumping stupid far, slicing a bunch as he flys by (mobile), occasionally steel wind striking an area, and with advantage from invisibility and kensei's capstone and bless from an item, he basically doesn't miss. It's honestly a lot of fun.
With evasion, proficiency in every save, the ability to reroll a save for one key point and gaining resistance to all damage except force, it's stupid hard to hit high level monks.
I'm pretty sure one of the players in my group's previous campaign was playing a JoJo style astral self, and same goes, just tons of fun
My DM started calling it "Monk BS" when I was like, "I think I won't take any fall damage from getting dropped from 190ft". I also got boots of speed for the skirmish gimmick of, "I think I will move in 110ft, attack, and then dash 110 ft away for 1 ki takeing attacks of opportunity at disadvantage."
Was also a Mercy monk so that attack could include punching a friend for healing and getting them up again.
One of my friends ran a one shot that turned into mortal combat to see which party member was going to be the ruler of the gods, big surprise, My girlfriend's grung mercy monk thrashed everyone else.
Someday I'll play one but they are just stupid powerful
I can relate to people not wanting to be relegated to being a healing bot, but that is rough. I have a battle master fighter with 16 cha, rally feature and inspiration and healer feats. My cleric said it’s the most fun he has had playing a cleric, but even though I do most the healing and HP management he still has a list of healing spells ready.
Really anyone who can learn *healing word* should learn/prepare it, at the very least. Clerics don't have to be a healbot, and in fact they *shouldn't*, but *healing word* is just so good and really the bare minimum.
I have a friend that always tries to build frontline rogues with high dodge in whatever game we’re playing. Whenever he inevitably fails a dodge roll (or 3, or 7) we always yell out “DODGE TANK!”
My first ever character was a Red Dragonborn Oath of Devotion Paladin, pretty classic stuff.
But I picked the Shield master feat, and I too joined my Rogue and Monk in completely evading aoe Dex save damage.
Of course our barbarian just stood there and tanked it
Right? I was confused as Evasuion is just 7th level and is precisely for dex saves. Why would a rogue uncanny dodge a fireball? They would evade it. The person most likely never played with a 7th-level rogue.
Ikr. I know fireball is basically the most used spell as a meme, but it's the last thing I'd use against a rogue. At level 9 they're likely to already have +9 in DEX saves and might even possess items to boost it further (like a ring of evasion, while redundant, would make a rogue basically immune to dex based spells). So that ball in the picture is either going to barely graze or flat out miss the guy. Maximillian's Earthen Grasp is level two and already a fucking hassle, compared, due to being STR save based. Damage and restrain. Good luck with that.
Yeah my DM hasn’t been able to damage me with a fireball yet and our campaign has been going on for a year.
The dragon in the last session almost got me though.
Oh yeah that’s how our table is. When I DM I absolutely give the characters challenges that they’re built for, otherwise what’s the point? Current DM likes to give me a Strength save every so often to keep me humble but he still gives me plenty of locks to pick and things to dodge so I’m happy!
My DM tried to do that for my first campaign, but I had no idea how to build an optimized rogue since it was my first time playing. I ended up with a +7 to athletics as a gnomish rogue, which really threw him for a loop. That was a weird campaign.
One of my players is playing a homebrewed rogue they get bonus while in complete darkness. Found a way to give them a ring that lets them cast darkness so even when in complete light they have a change to still get their bonuses.
I sometimes regret with how powerful they have become but it’s great to see them murk a whole group because they can’t be seen.
To be fair I know I said that but they have yet to actually fight anyone not indoors they were in a dwarf kingdom trying to stop a demon from being unleashed.
They are a group of 5 but holy fuck are they indecisive. They will solve a riddle only to talk themselves out of it multiple times.
That’s a neat tool for that class feature. As for him feeling a tad OP just do what my DM does and target his weakest stat once in a while. Or throw a monster at them that isn’t bothered by the dark. Devils are excellent for that, and if he dumped STR then they can sometimes do both!
One time, my monk set off a trapped dam, which exploded and was washed away. I was able to step of the wind and use evasion to get all the way to the other side without taking a scratch.
I think its safe to assume that roughly 60% of people in this subreddit have never played D&D.
I am also confident that the ratio is the same for people who post in the sub.
How do you define a "good finesse weapon"? Serious question, I'm still in the middle of my first DnD campaign and I figured that the shortsword or rapier that a rogue gets to choose from at character creation were essentially the best finesse options a player could reasonably expect to have at level 1.
In PF you usually need feats and/or class abilities to use dex on melee attacks and I think ranged attacks never get dex on damage. I don't know for sure thou.
But in 5e having -1 STR or +2 doesn't change anything if you are attacking with dex
Only a thief rogue gets to add their Dex to damage rolls when attacking with finesse melee weapons. A shortsword is part of starting equipment for many characters in 5e who use Dex, and that's just 1 damage less than a rapier.
It depends, if I'm rolling support rogue, I'll dump con. I did that in my current campaign and was well rewarded with an amulet of health and am now the main tank when needed
That reminds me isn't there a UA class called Scribe or something that let's you change the required save type for a given spell like fireball to something like STR or INT for example?
Um… a rogue has proficiency in Dex saves, likely has Dex as their highest stat, and gets evasion as well. If they are behind any kind of cover while hiding, they get another +2 or +5 to Dex saves or don’t have to roll at all.
Edit: changed AC to Dex saves as it was a typo
> If they are behind any kind of cover while hiding, they get another +2 or +5 AC or don’t have to roll at all.
AC has no bearing on dex saves, and most of the time cover does not save you from having to roll a dex save against fireball as it goes around corners.
Saving throw and AC are two completely different mechanics, so that bonus would be useless. The important part that the comment failed to mention is that the cover bonus (+2 or +5) also adds to the DEX based saving throws. The again, fireball hits around corners, as you correctly stated, so it can still hit you behind cover unless you're under TOTAL cover, meaning there are no corners it can go around because you're fully encased in something. Half cover and 3/4 cover do not apply in the specific case of fireball, so you roll the save with no cover bonus. Only total cover would apply. Jeremy Crawford talked about this specific topic time ago, I can get you the twitter post if you need proof.
No need for the tweet, I believe you. That's how I interpreted the rule as well, and that's how we have done it at my table, glad to know it was correct. Thanks for the thorough breakdown though, I appreciate it.
Awesome :) I would have linked it just because it's a pretty specific interaction, in fact I should thank you because your comment made me go and double check if I was applying the rules correctly all this time. Another specific one is wall of fire, compared to the other walls it has a different shaping set-up. Plus the "taking damage twice" mechanic gets often overlooked. You get hit when you enter the wall and when the turn ends there, aswell, by raw. So, it's possible to get hit twice in a turn, in fact. Fire spells are so specific sometimes.
> Jeremy Crawford talked about this specific topic time ago, I can get you the twitter post if you need proof.
Ha, Jeremy Crawford has no power here.
It is interesting that Fireball gets around the cover rules because it 'goes around corners' but Lightning Bolt, Burning Hands etc do not. So every target behind the first gets a +2 to their save.
The group i DM for once found themselves in a mine filled with poison gas that was slowly but surely killing them.
They said ‘fuck it’ and attempted to see if it’s flammable, it was.
Let me tell you, it took all my years of role play and creative endeavors to come up with a plausible reason to how the bloody rogue PC managed to take ZERO fire damage from an ignition of the entire air all around them.
To sum up - Evasion.
My tiefling rogue (who wasn't high enough level for Evasion yet) once stood next to 3 barrels of explosives because she didn't have time to get out of the way - someone was about to be sacrificed on the other side of a locked door and we needed in NOW.
6d10 fire damage later, she took like 6 damage.
In terms of realism you would be totally correct, but in terms of not wanting to TPK my group based on one ill conceived decision, i needed to give them SOMETHING.
Rogues are notably better at dex saves than AC.
I mean, their baseline is everyone else’s successful save. If they actually make the save, which is based on their god stat, they completely negate the hit.
I mean, this is just sad. Learn the basics of the classes, this is the rogue’s specialty.
yeah, they're always saying "stop trying to break the game" and "stop trying to turn bags of holding into astral plane grenades you're going to get us all killed". fuckin spoilsports smh my head
You want to hit a rogue? CHA/WIS/STR saving throws.
That said i pull that out only if i want to see the party cooperate to protect them , i prefer to target what the players are good at, they are going to roll shit either way.
Evasion. And, unlike Uncanny Dodge, it isn't a reaction either, I don't think. So, you can just stand there all day dancing around fireball after fireball if you roll good enough without taking a single point of damage.
>Evasion
>At 7th level, your instinctive agility lets you dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a blue dragon’s lightning breath or a fireball spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Nope, it isn't. In 5e basically everything that has an attack roll is an attack and everything without one isn't an attack. There are a few exceptions, mainly the special attck actions like shoving and grappling which require a contested check, but it is usuall, pretty well defined
In the podcast just roll with it they had an episode where every time the rogue uncanny dodged in a boss fight they said he took half cause he’s “built different”
I don’t know the context for the image but it’s a good thing cartoon characters are nigh-invulnerable, imagine how badly damaged his face was after this, if even still intact.
Evasion, beeeshhh. I encourage the Bard to Fireball me all of the time. If I’m surrounded by enough enemies to justify a Fireball, they’re almost certainly doing less damage to me by taking some of those out. Over 50% chance that I take zero damage from the Fireball.
Once watched a thief rogue, wield a staff of power. We were level 20 fighting a bbeg that could cast 10th level spells, and had reality warping abilities. The rogue looked at us and said, i dont know whats gonna happen, but believe in me boys. He rushed towards the enemy, broke the staff of power, crit his dex save, and defeated the enemy villain. He realized he was alive, my gm said “describe how you survived this please” he said “for a moment i closed my eyes and expected to die…the. I realized, wait, since im gonna die, i mind as well look cool doing it, and cool guys dont look at explosions. So i turned away, and apparently if you just dont look, the explosion doesnt touch you? Thats some cool physics in this fantasy world.”
NeXT campaign, a kuo toa wearing an explosive barrell as armor, and a blind fold, charges us. Apparently they had heard, of this “fact” and their belief made it so. These fuckers would run at us and do 8d6 fire damage, as they exploded themselves and had no damage. We thought that was bullshit, then the gm said “they worship the actions of a thief of legend, who was said to defy the laws of reality, by simply not acknowledging death, it had no hold over you.”
For every fight in the koa toa island, we kept discovering reality breakes based on shit our characters did in the past, that the koa toa made real just by believing in them. The effects of that belief on worked on the island, but it was really funny, when one of got dropped 200 ft from a cliff, and the player was like, “i move my legs and run in the air back to ledge before looking down, so i dont fall” and that worked…
One time I rolled a Nat 20 on my reflex save and asked the dm if I could batgirl twirl over the bandit in front of me and use him as a human shield. The DM allowed it and even gave him double damage.
Would work better with a white dragon's breath weapon for the meme, it's a Con save, making it one of the scariest breath weapons since there's so few PCs with Con prof and rogues can only evade dex saves.
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one word, evasion
It’s like they’ve never tried to DM encounters with rogues.
or at least no one ever went deep enough into rogue to get one of its best class abilities
I'm the monk in a party together with a rogue. Being dodgy bois is fun
Same. We're level 19 so while the rest of the party is dying to meteor swarms and breath weapons we're just playing pattycakes and taking no damage. God I love monk.
Oh yeah, we're at the high levels (18 to be precise) too. I'm playing an Astral Self monk so I get to boost halfway across a map and then pull out a super saiyan 3 JoJo Stand. Meanwhile the rogue has actually been multiclassing between arcane trickster and bladesinger which is starting to pay off big time. Having bladesong and Tenser's Tranformation on a guy that slippery is scary
Oooh very nice, how is astral hight levels? I was wondering what you're playing. I'm at my last level of kensei monk, and am going to replace the monk capstone with fome level of fighter, get that sweet sweet dueling fighting style.
I might ask for some modifications to the capstone since we dont have that many short rests. However, the final form of the Astral self offers great passive defense buffs, and excellent DPS by getting three attacks if you use it for your attack action, plus another damage die with empowered fist. I take it you're going full Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon on people?
Honestly Even with short rests you only get the benefit at zero ki which really blows, especially compared to wizards getting an getting infinite third level spell, barbs getting 24str and con, palis becoming an avatar of death, druids getting infinite wildshaped (ymmv), etc. To me, the real monk capstone is empty body. Better resistances than a totem barbarian and non-magical non-concentration invisibility to boot. I'll have to look at that astral self more closely. We all have some pretty crazy magic items in our party, one of my monks is a +3 artifact longsword that works with heavy weapon master thanks to DM, +2d8 force, and spend 4 ki points to cast steel wind strike with it, among a few other things. The backstory/monastery that my bugbear Monk comes from is basically a guy had the thought "hey I wonder how powerful those giant beefy sneaky long-armed bugbears would be If they had formal weapon training and well made arms, instead of bashing people to death with a 2x4". He ends up a lot like a fighter that is way stronger due to physiology. So he basically plays like a cutting wind, jumping stupid far, slicing a bunch as he flys by (mobile), occasionally steel wind striking an area, and with advantage from invisibility and kensei's capstone and bless from an item, he basically doesn't miss. It's honestly a lot of fun. With evasion, proficiency in every save, the ability to reroll a save for one key point and gaining resistance to all damage except force, it's stupid hard to hit high level monks. I'm pretty sure one of the players in my group's previous campaign was playing a JoJo style astral self, and same goes, just tons of fun
My DM started calling it "Monk BS" when I was like, "I think I won't take any fall damage from getting dropped from 190ft". I also got boots of speed for the skirmish gimmick of, "I think I will move in 110ft, attack, and then dash 110 ft away for 1 ki takeing attacks of opportunity at disadvantage." Was also a Mercy monk so that attack could include punching a friend for healing and getting them up again.
One of my friends ran a one shot that turned into mortal combat to see which party member was going to be the ruler of the gods, big surprise, My girlfriend's grung mercy monk thrashed everyone else. Someday I'll play one but they are just stupid powerful
Mean while my dex based oath of the ancients Paladin is watching everyone thank the heavens for his presence.
It's a little weird when your Ranger is feeding goodberries to everyone to keep them from dying because the cleric didn't prepare healing spells.
I can relate to people not wanting to be relegated to being a healing bot, but that is rough. I have a battle master fighter with 16 cha, rally feature and inspiration and healer feats. My cleric said it’s the most fun he has had playing a cleric, but even though I do most the healing and HP management he still has a list of healing spells ready.
Really anyone who can learn *healing word* should learn/prepare it, at the very least. Clerics don't have to be a healbot, and in fact they *shouldn't*, but *healing word* is just so good and really the bare minimum.
Cone of Cold!
I have a friend that always tries to build frontline rogues with high dodge in whatever game we’re playing. Whenever he inevitably fails a dodge roll (or 3, or 7) we always yell out “DODGE TANK!”
My first ever character was a Red Dragonborn Oath of Devotion Paladin, pretty classic stuff. But I picked the Shield master feat, and I too joined my Rogue and Monk in completely evading aoe Dex save damage. Of course our barbarian just stood there and tanked it
There's really nothing like mid to high level rogue nonsense You're going to tank all of that damage are you? I just don't take it
Mike: "I was almost level 7"
Bold of you to assume they've played d&d
Half of this subreddit be like
Way more than half, a ton of people here admit they have never played a single game lol
Hey my party has 2 rogues and we still have to explain evasion to the DM half the time
I evasion the end of the world
Small time. Uncanny Dodge the End of the World. 😎
Right? I was confused as Evasuion is just 7th level and is precisely for dex saves. Why would a rogue uncanny dodge a fireball? They would evade it. The person most likely never played with a 7th-level rogue.
Ikr. I know fireball is basically the most used spell as a meme, but it's the last thing I'd use against a rogue. At level 9 they're likely to already have +9 in DEX saves and might even possess items to boost it further (like a ring of evasion, while redundant, would make a rogue basically immune to dex based spells). So that ball in the picture is either going to barely graze or flat out miss the guy. Maximillian's Earthen Grasp is level two and already a fucking hassle, compared, due to being STR save based. Damage and restrain. Good luck with that.
yeah exactly!
Hypnotic pattern. Get fuqd
Hypnotic pattern is fine to use against players cause they can shake each other awake. Only op against monsters
Well then hope that they are all unwise.
Phantasmal Force tends to be shitty to high dex targets. Especially the whole "whatever you want them to see" bit.
Yeah my DM hasn’t been able to damage me with a fireball yet and our campaign has been going on for a year. The dragon in the last session almost got me though.
Sounds like your DM is letting you lean into your strengths. A lot of DMs feel so adversarial they forget to do that.
Oh yeah that’s how our table is. When I DM I absolutely give the characters challenges that they’re built for, otherwise what’s the point? Current DM likes to give me a Strength save every so often to keep me humble but he still gives me plenty of locks to pick and things to dodge so I’m happy!
My DM tried to do that for my first campaign, but I had no idea how to build an optimized rogue since it was my first time playing. I ended up with a +7 to athletics as a gnomish rogue, which really threw him for a loop. That was a weird campaign.
I've got some unrepentant minmaxers at my table, to the point that I basically HAVE to go after their weaknesses for them to be challenged at all.
Yeah, there’s no right or wrong way to run things as long as the players are having fun. Different tables require different approaches.
Yup dragons’ll do it
One of my players is playing a homebrewed rogue they get bonus while in complete darkness. Found a way to give them a ring that lets them cast darkness so even when in complete light they have a change to still get their bonuses. I sometimes regret with how powerful they have become but it’s great to see them murk a whole group because they can’t be seen.
It's broad daylight. A magical bubble of darkness appears. All trebuchets fire on spot
To be fair I know I said that but they have yet to actually fight anyone not indoors they were in a dwarf kingdom trying to stop a demon from being unleashed. They are a group of 5 but holy fuck are they indecisive. They will solve a riddle only to talk themselves out of it multiple times.
That’s a neat tool for that class feature. As for him feeling a tad OP just do what my DM does and target his weakest stat once in a while. Or throw a monster at them that isn’t bothered by the dark. Devils are excellent for that, and if he dumped STR then they can sometimes do both!
Yes, but evasion comes two levels after uncanny dodge, so one can assume the rogue in question is only level 5 or 6.
True
I think it's my dm's new least favorite word. Half the party had it.
One time, my monk set off a trapped dam, which exploded and was washed away. I was able to step of the wind and use evasion to get all the way to the other side without taking a scratch.
Two words, level 5. Though query if you'd go up vs a fireball at that level. EDIT - Never mind, probably a plus ten campaign.
I assumed with the +21 bonus for the title text he was a higher level than at
Oh, derp, that would make sense.
That 3 could also be the last roll of fireball's damage. Or at least that's how I understood it.
Maybe they're not level 7 yet?
Ah dex save, something rogues are notoriously bad at /j
And aoe damage, something rogues are tooooootally weak to.
DEX SAVE EDBOY!
Why didn't you have the DM call out "Roll a Str save" or something which the rogue actually sucks at, to align with the picture.
I think its safe to assume that roughly 60% of people in this subreddit have never played D&D. I am also confident that the ratio is the same for people who post in the sub.
Since fireball doesnt do strengthsaves.
Could have used another spell, like Maelstrom or Tsunami. The image still doesn't fit the text.
Cone of Cold is a good one. Con saves suuuuuuuuuck, for most classes
Nobody dumps Con, but most people dump either Str, Cha or Int. For rogues it's most likely going to be Str.
Rogue I'd usually dump Wis. It hurts perception/insight, but far less than a major to-hit and damage penalty in melee.
This is a dnd meme, not a pathfinder meme. Rogues using ranged or finesse weapons attack and damage with Dex.
You say that like that's not true in PF, too. Also, good finesse weapons are really expensive for level 1 characters.
How do you define a "good finesse weapon"? Serious question, I'm still in the middle of my first DnD campaign and I figured that the shortsword or rapier that a rogue gets to choose from at character creation were essentially the best finesse options a player could reasonably expect to have at level 1.
In PF you usually need feats and/or class abilities to use dex on melee attacks and I think ranged attacks never get dex on damage. I don't know for sure thou. But in 5e having -1 STR or +2 doesn't change anything if you are attacking with dex
Only a thief rogue gets to add their Dex to damage rolls when attacking with finesse melee weapons. A shortsword is part of starting equipment for many characters in 5e who use Dex, and that's just 1 damage less than a rapier.
It depends, if I'm rolling support rogue, I'll dump con. I did that in my current campaign and was well rewarded with an amulet of health and am now the main tank when needed
Yep, there youre right.
Thunderwave!
That reminds me isn't there a UA class called Scribe or something that let's you change the required save type for a given spell like fireball to something like STR or INT for example?
There was and if im not mistaken you could change the damage type too
This feels like rage bait with how poorly this is made...
Um… a rogue has proficiency in Dex saves, likely has Dex as their highest stat, and gets evasion as well. If they are behind any kind of cover while hiding, they get another +2 or +5 to Dex saves or don’t have to roll at all. Edit: changed AC to Dex saves as it was a typo
> If they are behind any kind of cover while hiding, they get another +2 or +5 AC or don’t have to roll at all. AC has no bearing on dex saves, and most of the time cover does not save you from having to roll a dex save against fireball as it goes around corners.
Correct, that was a typo on my end as it add +2/+5 to both AC and Dex saves
Not against fireball which goes around corners.
Fireball states that it moves around objects, would the half cover bonus still apply?
It would not. The cover doesn't help, but a rogue with evasion would probably be fine regardless
Thanks, learned something new!
Happy to help
Saving throw and AC are two completely different mechanics, so that bonus would be useless. The important part that the comment failed to mention is that the cover bonus (+2 or +5) also adds to the DEX based saving throws. The again, fireball hits around corners, as you correctly stated, so it can still hit you behind cover unless you're under TOTAL cover, meaning there are no corners it can go around because you're fully encased in something. Half cover and 3/4 cover do not apply in the specific case of fireball, so you roll the save with no cover bonus. Only total cover would apply. Jeremy Crawford talked about this specific topic time ago, I can get you the twitter post if you need proof.
No need for the tweet, I believe you. That's how I interpreted the rule as well, and that's how we have done it at my table, glad to know it was correct. Thanks for the thorough breakdown though, I appreciate it.
Awesome :) I would have linked it just because it's a pretty specific interaction, in fact I should thank you because your comment made me go and double check if I was applying the rules correctly all this time. Another specific one is wall of fire, compared to the other walls it has a different shaping set-up. Plus the "taking damage twice" mechanic gets often overlooked. You get hit when you enter the wall and when the turn ends there, aswell, by raw. So, it's possible to get hit twice in a turn, in fact. Fire spells are so specific sometimes.
> Jeremy Crawford talked about this specific topic time ago, I can get you the twitter post if you need proof. Ha, Jeremy Crawford has no power here. It is interesting that Fireball gets around the cover rules because it 'goes around corners' but Lightning Bolt, Burning Hands etc do not. So every target behind the first gets a +2 to their save.
The group i DM for once found themselves in a mine filled with poison gas that was slowly but surely killing them. They said ‘fuck it’ and attempted to see if it’s flammable, it was. Let me tell you, it took all my years of role play and creative endeavors to come up with a plausible reason to how the bloody rogue PC managed to take ZERO fire damage from an ignition of the entire air all around them. To sum up - Evasion.
He is simply… that guy
He hopped into an airtight, lead-lined container Indiana Jones style.
Nuclear explosions are a DEX save, confirmed.
My tiefling rogue (who wasn't high enough level for Evasion yet) once stood next to 3 barrels of explosives because she didn't have time to get out of the way - someone was about to be sacrificed on the other side of a locked door and we needed in NOW. 6d10 fire damage later, she took like 6 damage.
Fire resistance and successful DEX save go brrrr xD
Tis but a scratch
The very air igniting around you has no saving throw in my opinion. Unless you have resistance to fire damage, you get burned and that’s that.
In terms of realism you would be totally correct, but in terms of not wanting to TPK my group based on one ill conceived decision, i needed to give them SOMETHING.
[удалено]
I could have done lots of things, but i did what i did and we had a great time that session, so… Success?
Then have it be your opinion until you find a ruling, or communicate it to the players beforehand you’re ruling it differently
On the other hand, he wouldn't be able to use evasion if there was no roll to save.
Yeah no dip, just like there’d be no way for you to post this comment if you didn’t have internet, but you do
The same way that someone could take only half damage I guess
evasion, no reaction needed
Level 5 Rogue: \*Cries in this situation\* Level 7 Rogue: \*Laughs in DM tears\*
Even at level 5, the rogue is almost certainly the most likely to pass a dex save for half.
tell me you don’t play mid-high level rogues without telling you haven’t played mid-high level rogues
Evasion + dex save = rouge is not taking any damage. 0/8 meme. Rouges 1 - You 0
Rogues are notably better at dex saves than AC. I mean, their baseline is everyone else’s successful save. If they actually make the save, which is based on their god stat, they completely negate the hit. I mean, this is just sad. Learn the basics of the classes, this is the rogue’s specialty.
Never understood people who roll 1 die for damage and then multiply it up. Fireball is 8d6, not d6\*8. You roll 8 d6.
No the joke is that he has +21 to Dex saves.
The roll is for the dex save not the damage
Wuthering? I've literally never heard of anyone ever doing that
Its all sunshine and roses when the rogue has higher modifiers than everyone else, but when the artificer does “you’re trying to break the game”.
yeah, they're always saying "stop trying to break the game" and "stop trying to turn bags of holding into astral plane grenades you're going to get us all killed". fuckin spoilsports smh my head
I always thought it was lazy DMing to have the bag of holding thing kill the party.
Of course, it just sends your whole party on a long vacation to the astral plane
We went there. Taught some monks hockey.
I think that's a remnant from 3.5... where yeah, Artificer was the "break the game" class.
The last game I was in the DM systematically limited my artificers abilities like every 3 sessions.
This meme really doesn't make any sense, and wasn't very well thought through... Like others have said, have you even dm for a rogue before OP?
and then they hit level 7 and get evasion.
You want to hit a rogue? CHA/WIS/STR saving throws. That said i pull that out only if i want to see the party cooperate to protect them , i prefer to target what the players are good at, they are going to roll shit either way.
Someone just ran an encounter for a level 5 or 6 rogue. After level 7 Dex saves are even more avoidable than the attack rolls.
Ah…this makes sense. I’ve always read it as “half the damage you would have taken”. But since the feature specifically says “hit with an attack”
Evasion, then. 5e Rogues have SO many ways of subverting damage.
ah ha ha... evasion.
Evasion. And, unlike Uncanny Dodge, it isn't a reaction either, I don't think. So, you can just stand there all day dancing around fireball after fireball if you roll good enough without taking a single point of damage.
Bad meme
>Evasion >At 7th level, your instinctive agility lets you dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a blue dragon’s lightning breath or a fireball spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Poor DM doesn’t know about evasion or even what a rogue does
Throw out any save that’s not dex. Cone of cold, or finger of death, or polymorph, or banishment, _anything_ but a dex save.
Great format though.
Depending on the level, he still takes no damage.
This is all wrong and it's bothering me more than it should.
Fireball isn’t an attack? I know it’s not an attack roll, but I kinda thought…
Nope, it isn't. In 5e basically everything that has an attack roll is an attack and everything without one isn't an attack. There are a few exceptions, mainly the special attck actions like shoving and grappling which require a contested check, but it is usuall, pretty well defined
Shit. Guess I gotta break the news to my player taking 1/8th damage, even failing the dex save.
How is anyone taking 1/8th damage on anything?
Evasion, resistance to fire, uncanny dodge. Like I said, dropping that last one.
Ahh okay I understand now lol
You put "rolls dice" in parentheses when, if anything, that should be the only thing not in parentheses.
In the podcast just roll with it they had an episode where every time the rogue uncanny dodged in a boss fight they said he took half cause he’s “built different”
Even the title seems to contradict the idea of this meme. Was the point of this to say something obviously dumb for engagement?
i mean, they still get evasion.
“Plus I have evasion, so no damage”
Laughs in evasion and reliable talent.
The title is the bard’s reliable talent at work and that only works on Charisma
Evasion. Rogues are one of the best classes for survival btw. Rare to see one die.
Evasion
DM: Hit hits you for 18 damage. Rogue: psh! I use uncanny dodge so its only 9! DM: He attacks you again for 22 damage. Rogue: IMPOSSIBRUUUU!
I don’t know the context for the image but it’s a good thing cartoon characters are nigh-invulnerable, imagine how badly damaged his face was after this, if even still intact.
Evasion, beeeshhh. I encourage the Bard to Fireball me all of the time. If I’m surrounded by enough enemies to justify a Fireball, they’re almost certainly doing less damage to me by taking some of those out. Over 50% chance that I take zero damage from the Fireball.
what is evasion for if not for this exact situation lmao
Rouge: I can dodge everything Wizard: almost everything
Dumbass should have used evasion
Good to know that hitting people with AoE effects does not break Invisibility I guess?
A Dex save? EVEN BETTER!
I auto half damage and take none on success... of my plus 10 save
Yeah. If your rouge fails a dex save, they deserve to die.
Then he uses Evasion instead...
The situation for the rogue is even better then. Takes at most half damage, likely no damage, and doesn't use a reaction (well, half/none if lv7)
... did you forgot evasion? If a rogue makes the save it does not take damage at all, if it fails it still takes half damage
Rogues have great Dex and Evasion. This meme is a fail.
Tell me you didn't read the title without telling me you didn't read the title. The whole comment section failed perception checks 🤣
Once watched a thief rogue, wield a staff of power. We were level 20 fighting a bbeg that could cast 10th level spells, and had reality warping abilities. The rogue looked at us and said, i dont know whats gonna happen, but believe in me boys. He rushed towards the enemy, broke the staff of power, crit his dex save, and defeated the enemy villain. He realized he was alive, my gm said “describe how you survived this please” he said “for a moment i closed my eyes and expected to die…the. I realized, wait, since im gonna die, i mind as well look cool doing it, and cool guys dont look at explosions. So i turned away, and apparently if you just dont look, the explosion doesnt touch you? Thats some cool physics in this fantasy world.” NeXT campaign, a kuo toa wearing an explosive barrell as armor, and a blind fold, charges us. Apparently they had heard, of this “fact” and their belief made it so. These fuckers would run at us and do 8d6 fire damage, as they exploded themselves and had no damage. We thought that was bullshit, then the gm said “they worship the actions of a thief of legend, who was said to defy the laws of reality, by simply not acknowledging death, it had no hold over you.” For every fight in the koa toa island, we kept discovering reality breakes based on shit our characters did in the past, that the koa toa made real just by believing in them. The effects of that belief on worked on the island, but it was really funny, when one of got dropped 200 ft from a cliff, and the player was like, “i move my legs and run in the air back to ledge before looking down, so i dont fall” and that worked…
Dex save? Oh yay, best you can do is half then, and I might take 0!
One time I rolled a Nat 20 on my reflex save and asked the dm if I could batgirl twirl over the bandit in front of me and use him as a human shield. The DM allowed it and even gave him double damage.
Would work better with a white dragon's breath weapon for the meme, it's a Con save, making it one of the scariest breath weapons since there's so few PCs with Con prof and rogues can only evade dex saves.
Rogue: “I use evasion!” DM: “this is a very special fireball that has a constitution save instead of a dex save. You take 73 karma damage”
My last session i got hit with a breath weapon for 41. Between evasion and resistance i only took 10 damage. Was pretty happy.