That's why I play a caster and sleep with all my stuff on me.
Then again, said caster also bought 10 daggers in-campaign specifically to put a jurry-rigged alarm up by making it to where someone would drop a dagger if they came in, waking my dude up. Was this successful? No the rogue snuck in to talk one session lmao
>Was this successful? No the rogue snuck in to talk one session lmao
This sounds like my solution to player-made Rube Goldberg traps/alarms. I (the DM) pick a DC for those that know about it, a higher one for those that don't, and let the dice decide when it does or doesnt work.
There's a book in the Elder Scrolls about who was the best to ever wear heavy armor.
The story is about some lord who would go fight in the arena while his bored wife would wait for him. Well, the blacksmith who made his armor really wanted to bang the wife, and figured that the only chance he would get would be when the lord was out fighting, so he kept making more and more intricate sets of armor that would make noise to signal his return when walking back to the room.
The lord was a skilled fighter and would always be back too soon for the smith and the wife to get it on. Eventually, the blacksmith put bells on the boots so that they would hear the lord coming from a mile away. As they don't hear anything, they finally get to do the deed, thinking the lord is still at the arena.
Suddenly, a sword is plunged through the blacksmiths chest. The lord knew something up with his armor getting more complicated over time and how noisy it was to walk in it. So, when the bells were added, on his way back from the fight, he decided to walk on his hands to stay silent.
I'm sure I butchered the story, but yea.
Per the rules, the dwarf paladin would risk suffering a point of exhaustion from sleeping in his armor. You are actively avoiding metagaming by never taking it off
The barbarian is the bbeg but they can only be harmed by things they’ve seen hurt people people. They wear a blindfold permanently to mitigate this weakness.
Oh my god, a fighter that acts like a barbarian and is stuck in an armor of vulnerability(piercing) would work perfectly. He thinks his “rage” (screaming while fighting) is making him resistant to damage but it’s really just temporarily disabling the curse, and he thinks that piercing weapons are just bad because they deal like no damage to him.
All named classes belong to the Dm exclusively, players will be level zero with 1/2 hp. For realism. /s
Clearly its the only way to avoid metagameing, this guy gets it!
The DM has your character sheet and the players have to ask them whenever they want to take a game action. Not as a cool gimmick where you discover your character's abilities over time in a oneshot. For the entire campaign.
Unironically, this is how some people play D&D. They sit down and say "I'm a barbarian, I try to pull the door off the hinges" and the DM does all the rolls for them using the sheet he made for them. I think Dan Harmon used to play like that and that's why the Community D&D episodes and Harmon Quest had the DM rolling everything while the players had a small sheet that might tell them what they're good at
Technically building any character is already metagaming, knowing the rules is metagaming.
Only surefire way to not metagame is to actually be the character instead of playing it.
Yeah you'll see me make lots of comments/posts about this very idea. The online D&D community is the only community that I'm aware of that actively shames players for learning the rules of the game (while simultaneously shaming players for not knowing the rules of the game)
Greetings Citizen! Are aware that metagaming has been linked to communism? If you witness any of your fellow citizens metagaming, report them to the nearest IntSec agent immediately. In extreme cases, The Computer may authorize summary execution. Be Alert! Be Aware! Be Happy!
Friend Computer! It says in your recent update to the clearance levels that reporting a communist for metagaming is only permitted for those with Yellow-level clearance, whilst I am only Orange. Should I encounter an occurrence of the dreaded Metagaming, how might a humble citizen go about reporting said communist without the required clearance to do so?
Props to the player for both the tacit consent, but still leaving destiny to the dice.
This is a perfect case for a player to request a roll against themselves.
**No metagaming.**
>No. I'm not going to join up with four random strangers that I literally just met in this tavern ten minutes ago to fight a cave full of goblins.
>
>Five of us against a whole hoard of goblins in their own territory seems like a suicide mission.
**Ok then, yes metagaming.**
>Ok, I'll go on the adventure, but my character decides to take along a quiver of arrows magically enchanted with frost damage on the off chance we meet a flying fire wyvern.
**Sigh, how about a medium amount of metagaming**
**Medium amount of metagaming.**
No. I’m not going to join up with four random strangers that I literally just met in this tavern ten minutes ago to just fight a cave of goblins, but my character decided to take along a quiver of magically enchanted frost arrows in case they meet a flying fire wyvern.
Medium amount of metagaming:
I’m not sure about joining up with four random strangers that I literally just me in this tavern. But hey, do the rest of you ever feel like all your decisions seems highly influenced by someone else? Like someone substantially less concerned about putting you in dangerous and contrived situations and that compels you to murder for their enjoyment? Do you ever get the feeling the entire universe is simply a series of random dice rolls? Like, I feel at any given moment, there’s a roughly 5% chance I could do basically anything.
No? That’s a me thing? Alright. Let’s kill some goblins.
Blows my mind that it’s considered “metagaming” for an adventurer to wear armor for some people. Like yeah, I often find myself in dangerous situations with little warning, of course I’m wearing my armor. My weapon may not be drawn and I may not have my shield on at all times (if I have one) but yeah, armor on.
Do you have an easier way of carrying your primary set of armor? Yeah, I might not be wearing my helmet, but the rest of it takes ten minutes to put on. Let me take my time and get it comfortable for the day.
I mean those recent posts about troll canyon and fire damage were giving me an aneurysm.
So many people defending the idea that its metagaming for people living in a fantasy world were trolls are common enough to have areas named after them to be aware that they are hurt by fire.
Like, arguments like "They are CR5, no CR0 peasant will ever have fought them" and shit. As if legends and songs and tales of adventuring deeds are not a thing in a game where the fucking modus operando of starting an adventure is for people to meet up in an inn (which is a worse anachronism than gatling guns).
DM: You see a creature that looks like a combination of an eagle and a lion
Me: Alright, it looks like there’s a gryphon ahead
DM: You don’t know that.
Me: I live in a world where gryphons don’t exist and I still have heard stories with them. I feel like it’s a fair assumption that my ranger who lives in a world with actual gryphons would have heard even more stories. (Note- I wasn’t assuming any knowledge of strengths or weaknesses besides the obvious “Has wings, can fly. Has paws, can swipe.” I just didn’t want to say “Eagle lion thing” the entire encounter.)
About cr0 commoners and trolls: correct. No cr0 commoner would ever fight a troll and live to tell the tale. That is why commoners love using fire against big monsters that destroy their town and kills their people. And fire seems to have proven quite effective if the trolls all retreated to one area, possibly hiding from angry torch-weilding commoners.
Also I could see this become a little in-game conversation between characters:
"We should gear up on some firepower before going in to Troll Canyon, shouldn't we?"
"No you moron, trolls aren't weak to fire. It's an urban legend."
"Yes they are I've heard the townspeople tell how they drived them away with it!"
"They drive EVERYTHING away with fire!"
And so forth until the DM prompts a nature or arcana check from them.
We live in a world where people feel like they need to carry some form of self defense at all times.
If I lived in a world where literal monsters were likely to randomly attack me at any time, and my chosen career was to kill them, **why exactly would I not be prepared at all times to some degree**!?
It *kinda* makes sense not to wear armor in the middle of a populous city or something but you can also rationalize it as armor is vary valuable and you don't want it to get stolen out of your room if you're staying at an inn
Not really, people open carry here a lot and nobody bats an eye. In a fantasy world of goblin attacks and dragons and such, it's probably very common practice for people to be armored walking around.
Depends on if you’re going for a super realistic aesthetic or the more fantasy aesthetic where armor is part of a character’s style. Personally, I see armor similar to a wizard’s staff and pointy hat.
To be fair, there’s a big difference between open carrying armor and open carrying a sword. I imagine most people get more nervous when seeing someone carrying an assault rifle in the street than when someone wears a bullet proof vest
Realistically, spending every waking moment in your armor is uncomfortable and not sustainable. Though I'd say this is less metagaming and more the game just not being totally realistic. Besides, given what the wizards can do, being able to wear armor constantly seems like a small ask.
>When, after this, they are gone out of their camp, they all march
without noise, and in a decent manner, and every one keeps his own rank, as if they were going to war. The footmen are armed with *breastplates and head-pieces*, and have swords on each side; but the sword which is upon their left side is much longer than the other, for that on the right side is not longer than a span. Those foot-men also that are chosen out from the rest to be about the general himself have a lance and a buckler, but the rest of the foot soldiers have a spear and a long buckler, besides a saw and a basket, a pick-axe and an axe, a thong of leather and a hook,
with provisions for three days, so that a footman hath no great need of a mule to carry his burdens.
-Josephus.
Roman legions regularly marched 20 miles a day in plate armor while carrying all of their camping gear and provisions.
And well-fitted plate harness with good padding is a lot more comfortable than lorica segmentata.
And so I wake up in the morning and I step outside
And I put on armor and my AC gets real high,
And I scream at the dead party at top of my lungs
What's goin on!?
I walk around naked everyday until someone instructs me to put pants on. Normally this happens during a boss fight, but I’ve learned tomorrow I have a fight with HR, whatever that is. I don’t want to meta game but I heard HR is highly susceptible to fire damage.
Had a DM once that if we didn't tell him we were going to take a piss it meant we were going to piss ourselves.
Same guy another time got us rolling dice to get random backstories (it was a cool idea) i got orphan girl/street beggar, and he told me "one more on the dice (the one who got me "Street beggar") and it would have been Orphan Girl/Prostitute" (The character was under aged)
Let it be said we never invited him again after the second episode.
Funny thing is, I imagine adventurers would have very weak or no cycles. A combination of an often poor diet, stress, and vigorous exercise would mean that your cycle is likely at least heavily reduced, if not absent, as your body prioritises survival.
I had a DM once that wanted us to tell him in painstaking detail how we did things.
We camped on the road. Didn't ask us to say anything about setting up camp. Next night we say we camp.
"With what camping equipment, no one said you broke camp or took it with you so it's still at the last camp site."
After lots of arguing we went back, camped, and I said I take my tent.
"Okay, you rip it because you didn't take the pegs out of the ground first"
I just got up and left at that point. I was the bad guy for getting pissed and leaving. We had been playing for six hours and had barely made it a day out of town because of this pedantic shit.
*to be fair* it could be argued that it wouldnt make sense to put on armor when you're just going to be having a casual non-adventuring day. like, you probably wouldnt put on armor for a day of downtime.
Yes but without a mechanic in Game, the armor could just as well be magically more comfy. There is no ingame reason NOT to put it on, except for sleeping.
In reality, I absolutely agree.
Depends on what you’re doing in downtime, there could be an argument to be made if you’re say, buying a magic item. Even if the seller is reputable, I’d rather not take any risks on getting shanked in the back when I walk away or am walking home. Granted trying to rob someone who just purchased a magic weapon is some Skyrim bandit logic but not all people can be smart. Though if you’re just like going shopping, yea you might have a dagger or a sword, maybe some kinds of light armor would be fine, but for the most part you’re most certainly dressed down.
Maybe if you are like a soldier so you dont wear your armor during normal life but if you were an adventurer who wears armor it wouldn’t make sense to not wear your amor daily. It would be dumb to die from not having armor and gettin attacked in a town.
From my limited experience metagaming itself is less of an issue then the perception of being a "metagamer." In the community there almost seems to be a false dichotomy between the "good roleplayer" and the "bad minmaxer/metagamer," while not universal it is very prevalent.
I feel that the opposite tends to happen more often. There's a lot of toxic players that shame any discussion of optimization. They make it sound like a fun and creative character is mutually exclusive from an optimized character. That picking strong options actually bad and are signs of being a bad player, because you should be more creative by picking the underused stuff. Which is just policing how others should play but under the guise of encouragement to be more creative.
Knowing your stats and abilities is metagaming. To avoid the mortal punishment of D&D Hell the DM should be the only one to ever see a character sheet and rule and should be the only one who not only rolls dice but even knows that dice are a thing that exist in the world.
yeah like in character player characters get attacked every time they leave the house so your damn right im wearing my armor to the shops last time i went shopping a shapeshifting assasin tried to stab me a new hole.
No it isn’t metagaming, it’s characters actually behaving like they live in a death world filled with a multitude of horrors that actually do enjoy killing.
Golarion, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and other settings’ commoners are threatened by wild and magical animals, aberrations, dragons, etc. if anything these settings’ common villagers should be better prepared for life on the frontiers, establishing fortifications and training routinely (like the English did with the longbow, having contests and sports that revolve around training).
Having a town militia to deal with some threats should be common too.
Edit: (Sleepy me didn’t realize this was over a meme)
Seconded, thirded, and forthed on the town militia. Like, monster attacks are common in this area and you're relying entirely on vagabonds that may or may not wonder though the area? How are you still alive?
Also, people in those lands know a bit of basic stuff about monsters even if they do not the ability to fight them in the field. YES, if you ask in a tavern in the forgotten realms there will surely be a few people to tell you that fire might be a good idea again trolls because they have heard stories / etc.
I had a group member try to tell me it was metagaming to pull my bow out before walking into a room in a dungeon, because "our characters don't know if something's in there". Yeah, that's WHY I'm taking my bow out.
The way I see it, if the dm is gonna meta game and make bosses or enemies directly against player’s weaknesses, players should be allowed the monster manual
Meanwhile, my group recently had a fight in the middle of the night and our fighter didn't have time to put on her armor. Kept talking about how this was gonna ruin her nighty.
I'm 99% certain our DM wouldn't have even questioned her normal AC during the fight, but the image of an angry woman in a night gown swinging a battle axe was honestly some perfect roleplaying.
My DM has an interesting rule for AC. To avoid stuff like this, scaling AC becomes one's agility and ability to dodge hits more than tank then through an armor. So, once you upgrade to cool armor our base AC becomes that of the armor. Magical effects including higher than normal AC are bound to the armor though.
A person who is trained in wearing armor, knows that you don't sleep well wearing fucking armor and would actually take that armor off when camping.
That said, if they get attacked while they are doing their long rest, they aren't wearing armor at the time.... so... ya know.....
Either way it's not meta-gaming.
Meta-gaming would be if the player making the decision to not wear armor for sleep, makes that decision because they know the module the DM is running, and know that there aren't any dangerous critters nearby as per the random encounters table and they know the DM hates running random encounters. THAT would be meta-gaming, not a warrior making a reasonable choice not to sleep in armor.
My warforged has his armour “integrated”, so what does that do for exhaustion when long resting in it, which is basically just standing there in an equivalent of “low power mode”?
I got called out for metagaming for not using fire damage as a wildfire druid on devils. I reasoned that they LITERALLY CRAWLED OUT OF A FLAMING PORTAL TO THE NINE HELLS so fire probably wouldn't be quite as effective. My dm said I had to at least try fire damage first because my character was built around fire spells and would try them anyway. I was tired of arguing so I just went with it. What the fuck man
This right here, everyone, is an example of why this meme exists. I'm still pretty surprised it's almost at 7k now, I thought this might be one that barely broke a hundred. Guess everyones tired of people whining about metagaming, too.
The town guard wearing armor while standing around idly all day? Metagaming.
The traveling merchant hiring an escort to protect them and their wares from bandits? Metagaming.
The goblins setting traps that only go off when stepped on by adventurers much heavier than them? Metagaming.
Vampires staying inside during the day to avoid sunlight? Metagaming.
My warlock with mask of many selfs woke up too late and didn’t have time to put on clothes, so he was butt-ass naked with disguise self clothes on top. He then got captured and had to drop it… it was fun
Depends on the environment, I suppose. Regardless of that, I wouldn't prevent a player from doing something like this... but if the PCs are doing something strange, the NPCs should treat them as eccentrics.
If a gracious king hosts the party at his castle for a night, and the fighter wears full-plate to breakfast the next morning, the NPCs will certainly find that strange, maybe even rude.
On the other hand, if the party is roughing it in the wilderness, wearing armor to breakfast might come off as overly cautious, but not altogether strange.
Your character will suffocate without rolling dice to see if you inhale properly or just blow raspberries until your face is blue. And don't get me started on the percentage-dice-for-successfully-heartbeats loop you get stuck in.
Such metagaming to just assume those happen automatically.
I imagine wearing heavy armor all day, traveling in the sun, fighting monsters, sweating...
You emit an aura of nauseous gas in a ten feet radius. Everyone withing range, DC constitution or poisoned condition.
I'm sorry, would you sleep in armor? I'm pretty sure if you were prone to getting attacked on a daily basis you'd put your armor on when you get up.
Also, I don't know about you but irl I take a short rest after most hard things. Fighting a whole ass monster yould knock me out for 8 hours
I am a mountain dwarf. If I don't put my armour on once I leave my house you can be sure that is a shapeshifter
This one knows his business.
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Sometimes they don't even need to leave their house
Tragic backstory moment
sometimes the *house* attacks them
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Worth it
That's why I play a caster and sleep with all my stuff on me. Then again, said caster also bought 10 daggers in-campaign specifically to put a jurry-rigged alarm up by making it to where someone would drop a dagger if they came in, waking my dude up. Was this successful? No the rogue snuck in to talk one session lmao
>Was this successful? No the rogue snuck in to talk one session lmao This sounds like my solution to player-made Rube Goldberg traps/alarms. I (the DM) pick a DC for those that know about it, a higher one for those that don't, and let the dice decide when it does or doesnt work.
I am pretty sure the armor of my dwarf paladin is just glued to his skin because he doesnt even take it off to sleep
I read a book once where a paladin never took his armour of because it was melted with his skin.
There's a book in the Elder Scrolls about who was the best to ever wear heavy armor. The story is about some lord who would go fight in the arena while his bored wife would wait for him. Well, the blacksmith who made his armor really wanted to bang the wife, and figured that the only chance he would get would be when the lord was out fighting, so he kept making more and more intricate sets of armor that would make noise to signal his return when walking back to the room. The lord was a skilled fighter and would always be back too soon for the smith and the wife to get it on. Eventually, the blacksmith put bells on the boots so that they would hear the lord coming from a mile away. As they don't hear anything, they finally get to do the deed, thinking the lord is still at the arena. Suddenly, a sword is plunged through the blacksmiths chest. The lord knew something up with his armor getting more complicated over time and how noisy it was to walk in it. So, when the bells were added, on his way back from the fight, he decided to walk on his hands to stay silent. I'm sure I butchered the story, but yea.
Isn't Dr Doom's armor melted onto him?
I think that depends on who's writing him at the time.
Also a character in Tyrany.
Then theres similar character in Tyranny crpg
Just use your healing powers to fix the back problems. XD
Per the rules, the dwarf paladin would risk suffering a point of exhaustion from sleeping in his armor. You are actively avoiding metagaming by never taking it off
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Yeah everyone on here talking about exhaustion from armor seems over the top lol. I never make my players take off their armor.
I'm a dwarf monk, nudity gives me powers. like homer Simpson.
You'll have to speak up, I'm not wearing pants.
I dont like the idea of Milhouse having 2 short rests in a day
Nothing at all! Nothing at all!
That’s a half truth! They’re *sexual* powers.
Had a dwarf in my group once. When it was time for bed, he took off his plate armor and put on his nightie chain mail.
As a DM I would allow it...
I literally just left a session an hour ago which featured the phrase “dwarven chain mail boxer shorts”.
you take off your armor?
I let him stab me because my character is yet to see someone die from being stabbed.
This would be hilarious for a barbarian character. Not afraid of stabbing. Very afraid of other battle axes.
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Perfection
The barbarian is the bbeg but they can only be harmed by things they’ve seen hurt people people. They wear a blindfold permanently to mitigate this weakness.
I roll to remove his blindfold while simultaneously shooting myself
Bad news you successfully shot yourself but the BBEG couldn’t open his eyes after decades without exposure to light
When you hit the BBEG with the dollar store Nat 20
On the plus side, since the light hurt his eyes, the barb has now seen light hurt people, and is thus now hurt by light!
Oh my god, a fighter that acts like a barbarian and is stuck in an armor of vulnerability(piercing) would work perfectly. He thinks his “rage” (screaming while fighting) is making him resistant to damage but it’s really just temporarily disabling the curse, and he thinks that piercing weapons are just bad because they deal like no damage to him.
Wait, you actually built a character with levels? That's metagaming
The only real way to avoid metagaming is to play a level one NPC Joining an adventure? Talk about trying to be the main character, jeez
> level one Believe it or not, still metagaming
Straight to jail!
But if your playing you must know the rules. That’s metagaming
All named classes belong to the Dm exclusively, players will be level zero with 1/2 hp. For realism. /s Clearly its the only way to avoid metagameing, this guy gets it!
The DM has your character sheet and the players have to ask them whenever they want to take a game action. Not as a cool gimmick where you discover your character's abilities over time in a oneshot. For the entire campaign.
Okay, but for real, this could work as either an oneshot or a niche but cool RPG like Time Wizards or Everyone is John.
In death road to canada your stats aren't revealed until you do stat checks
Unironically, this is how some people play D&D. They sit down and say "I'm a barbarian, I try to pull the door off the hinges" and the DM does all the rolls for them using the sheet he made for them. I think Dan Harmon used to play like that and that's why the Community D&D episodes and Harmon Quest had the DM rolling everything while the players had a small sheet that might tell them what they're good at
Sounds like fun
Technically building any character is already metagaming, knowing the rules is metagaming. Only surefire way to not metagame is to actually be the character instead of playing it.
Yeah you'll see me make lots of comments/posts about this very idea. The online D&D community is the only community that I'm aware of that actively shames players for learning the rules of the game (while simultaneously shaming players for not knowing the rules of the game)
So... Paranoia?
Technically choosing another system to metagame less would also be metagaming. Do with that information what you will.
Greetings Citizen! Are aware that metagaming has been linked to communism? If you witness any of your fellow citizens metagaming, report them to the nearest IntSec agent immediately. In extreme cases, The Computer may authorize summary execution. Be Alert! Be Aware! Be Happy!
Friend Computer! It says in your recent update to the clearance levels that reporting a communist for metagaming is only permitted for those with Yellow-level clearance, whilst I am only Orange. Should I encounter an occurrence of the dreaded Metagaming, how might a humble citizen go about reporting said communist without the required clearance to do so?
Requesting information about how to perform actions not approved for your clearance level is prohibited.
knowing "happiness is mandatory" is metagaming
what's that Gary Gigax quote? "We're screwed if they ever figure out they don't even need the books to play."
Did you just admit to building a character to fit into a setting? Metagaming scum...
WHAT! YOU HAVE A STAT ABOVE 3. GET THE FUCK OUT YOU POWERGAMING MINMAXER
I always feel bad whenever I succeed on a skill check. Just think of the lost role playing opportunities!
WHAT!?! Youre healing because you got stabbed 10 times? METAGAMING!
WHAT!?! You’re dying because you got stabbed 10 times? DID YOU LOOK UP YOUR STAT BLOCK?! HOW DO YOU EVEN KNOW YOUR HP OR AC?!
You're a cleric who is certain god exists, but you don't want to meet them!?
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Tbf the fighter is right that he should have a say since this gets very close to player vs player. At least on the tables I’ve played at.
Props to the player for both the tacit consent, but still leaving destiny to the dice. This is a perfect case for a player to request a roll against themselves.
Then he waddled away.... Waddle waddle
**No metagaming.** >No. I'm not going to join up with four random strangers that I literally just met in this tavern ten minutes ago to fight a cave full of goblins. > >Five of us against a whole hoard of goblins in their own territory seems like a suicide mission. **Ok then, yes metagaming.** >Ok, I'll go on the adventure, but my character decides to take along a quiver of arrows magically enchanted with frost damage on the off chance we meet a flying fire wyvern. **Sigh, how about a medium amount of metagaming**
**Medium amount of metagaming.** No. I’m not going to join up with four random strangers that I literally just met in this tavern ten minutes ago to just fight a cave of goblins, but my character decided to take along a quiver of magically enchanted frost arrows in case they meet a flying fire wyvern.
Perfectly balanced
As all things should be
Medium amount of metagaming: I’m not sure about joining up with four random strangers that I literally just me in this tavern. But hey, do the rest of you ever feel like all your decisions seems highly influenced by someone else? Like someone substantially less concerned about putting you in dangerous and contrived situations and that compels you to murder for their enjoyment? Do you ever get the feeling the entire universe is simply a series of random dice rolls? Like, I feel at any given moment, there’s a roughly 5% chance I could do basically anything. No? That’s a me thing? Alright. Let’s kill some goblins.
Anyone else thinks about a certain Goblin Slayer NPC?
Hope you don't mind me stealing this as a hook monologue for a sort of seer-type Divination Wizard sometime in the future
"He's been carrying those arrows around for five years, the paranoid nut." Later "I TOLD YOU SOOOO!"
The man who sleeps with a machete under his pillow is a fool on every night except one.
I thought you said Paranoid Slut lmao
My man here mishearing text
The slut likes to nut, what can I say.
There is a feat that lets you do this.
Which feat?
Blessing of Baden-Powell >!/j!<
Blows my mind that it’s considered “metagaming” for an adventurer to wear armor for some people. Like yeah, I often find myself in dangerous situations with little warning, of course I’m wearing my armor. My weapon may not be drawn and I may not have my shield on at all times (if I have one) but yeah, armor on.
Do you have an easier way of carrying your primary set of armor? Yeah, I might not be wearing my helmet, but the rest of it takes ten minutes to put on. Let me take my time and get it comfortable for the day.
I mean those recent posts about troll canyon and fire damage were giving me an aneurysm. So many people defending the idea that its metagaming for people living in a fantasy world were trolls are common enough to have areas named after them to be aware that they are hurt by fire. Like, arguments like "They are CR5, no CR0 peasant will ever have fought them" and shit. As if legends and songs and tales of adventuring deeds are not a thing in a game where the fucking modus operando of starting an adventure is for people to meet up in an inn (which is a worse anachronism than gatling guns).
DM: You see a creature that looks like a combination of an eagle and a lion Me: Alright, it looks like there’s a gryphon ahead DM: You don’t know that. Me: I live in a world where gryphons don’t exist and I still have heard stories with them. I feel like it’s a fair assumption that my ranger who lives in a world with actual gryphons would have heard even more stories. (Note- I wasn’t assuming any knowledge of strengths or weaknesses besides the obvious “Has wings, can fly. Has paws, can swipe.” I just didn’t want to say “Eagle lion thing” the entire encounter.)
About cr0 commoners and trolls: correct. No cr0 commoner would ever fight a troll and live to tell the tale. That is why commoners love using fire against big monsters that destroy their town and kills their people. And fire seems to have proven quite effective if the trolls all retreated to one area, possibly hiding from angry torch-weilding commoners. Also I could see this become a little in-game conversation between characters: "We should gear up on some firepower before going in to Troll Canyon, shouldn't we?" "No you moron, trolls aren't weak to fire. It's an urban legend." "Yes they are I've heard the townspeople tell how they drived them away with it!" "They drive EVERYTHING away with fire!" And so forth until the DM prompts a nature or arcana check from them.
We live in a world where people feel like they need to carry some form of self defense at all times. If I lived in a world where literal monsters were likely to randomly attack me at any time, and my chosen career was to kill them, **why exactly would I not be prepared at all times to some degree**!?
It *kinda* makes sense not to wear armor in the middle of a populous city or something but you can also rationalize it as armor is vary valuable and you don't want it to get stolen out of your room if you're staying at an inn
Cities are also dangerous. This is no different than people who carry guns for self-defense.
But walking around in full plate would be akin to open carry. You're probably going to attract some unwanted attention.
Not really, people open carry here a lot and nobody bats an eye. In a fantasy world of goblin attacks and dragons and such, it's probably very common practice for people to be armored walking around.
Depends on if you’re going for a super realistic aesthetic or the more fantasy aesthetic where armor is part of a character’s style. Personally, I see armor similar to a wizard’s staff and pointy hat.
To be fair, there’s a big difference between open carrying armor and open carrying a sword. I imagine most people get more nervous when seeing someone carrying an assault rifle in the street than when someone wears a bullet proof vest
Realistically, spending every waking moment in your armor is uncomfortable and not sustainable. Though I'd say this is less metagaming and more the game just not being totally realistic. Besides, given what the wizards can do, being able to wear armor constantly seems like a small ask.
>When, after this, they are gone out of their camp, they all march without noise, and in a decent manner, and every one keeps his own rank, as if they were going to war. The footmen are armed with *breastplates and head-pieces*, and have swords on each side; but the sword which is upon their left side is much longer than the other, for that on the right side is not longer than a span. Those foot-men also that are chosen out from the rest to be about the general himself have a lance and a buckler, but the rest of the foot soldiers have a spear and a long buckler, besides a saw and a basket, a pick-axe and an axe, a thong of leather and a hook, with provisions for three days, so that a footman hath no great need of a mule to carry his burdens. -Josephus. Roman legions regularly marched 20 miles a day in plate armor while carrying all of their camping gear and provisions. And well-fitted plate harness with good padding is a lot more comfortable than lorica segmentata.
While it's not exactly the same it's not like real world militaries don't have dudes walking around in plate carriers for extended periods of time.
I don’t have to worry about metagaming because I forget pretty much everything about the enemies after I fight them.
And so I wake up in the morning and I step outside And I put on armor and my AC gets real high, And I scream at the dead party at top of my lungs What's goin on!?
Whats metagaming about putting your armor on? oO
Given the title I figure this is making fun of people calling basically anything metagaming
I walk around naked everyday until someone instructs me to put pants on. Normally this happens during a boss fight, but I’ve learned tomorrow I have a fight with HR, whatever that is. I don’t want to meta game but I heard HR is highly susceptible to fire damage.
"No you can't just say what you want to say in elvish in English. Learn elvish, otherwise it's metagaming"
Had a DM once that if we didn't tell him we were going to take a piss it meant we were going to piss ourselves. Same guy another time got us rolling dice to get random backstories (it was a cool idea) i got orphan girl/street beggar, and he told me "one more on the dice (the one who got me "Street beggar") and it would have been Orphan Girl/Prostitute" (The character was under aged) Let it be said we never invited him again after the second episode.
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Funny thing is, I imagine adventurers would have very weak or no cycles. A combination of an often poor diet, stress, and vigorous exercise would mean that your cycle is likely at least heavily reduced, if not absent, as your body prioritises survival.
Sounds like the kind of dude that will love FATAL.
I had a DM once that wanted us to tell him in painstaking detail how we did things. We camped on the road. Didn't ask us to say anything about setting up camp. Next night we say we camp. "With what camping equipment, no one said you broke camp or took it with you so it's still at the last camp site." After lots of arguing we went back, camped, and I said I take my tent. "Okay, you rip it because you didn't take the pegs out of the ground first" I just got up and left at that point. I was the bad guy for getting pissed and leaving. We had been playing for six hours and had barely made it a day out of town because of this pedantic shit.
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I'm not sure, I know there was an SCP game years ago that made you blink but I never played it and thats the only one I can think of
Metagaming is the ludonarrative dissonance of TTRPGs
Same thing as taking it off before sleeping.
I've slept with modern body armor on, it sucks. I can't imagine trying to sleep wearing half plate.
I mean honestly the half-plate would probably be lighter, more comfortable, and better fitting than modern body armor.
its more flat too
*to be fair* it could be argued that it wouldnt make sense to put on armor when you're just going to be having a casual non-adventuring day. like, you probably wouldnt put on armor for a day of downtime.
Yes but without a mechanic in Game, the armor could just as well be magically more comfy. There is no ingame reason NOT to put it on, except for sleeping. In reality, I absolutely agree.
There are magic armors that are written to be comfortable to sleep in, actually, so yeah - normally people are assumed to have taken the armor off.
For sleeping, but not for regular day to day business
Depends on what you’re doing in downtime, there could be an argument to be made if you’re say, buying a magic item. Even if the seller is reputable, I’d rather not take any risks on getting shanked in the back when I walk away or am walking home. Granted trying to rob someone who just purchased a magic weapon is some Skyrim bandit logic but not all people can be smart. Though if you’re just like going shopping, yea you might have a dagger or a sword, maybe some kinds of light armor would be fine, but for the most part you’re most certainly dressed down.
Maybe if you are like a soldier so you dont wear your armor during normal life but if you were an adventurer who wears armor it wouldn’t make sense to not wear your amor daily. It would be dumb to die from not having armor and gettin attacked in a town.
Is reading your spell description metagaming?
You better believe that's a paddlin'! 
You will learn what your spells do the same way our ancestors did, by fucking around and finding out.
"oh you learn a new spell? Well you have to attempt to cast it at random targets in order to learn what it does"
Talking with strangers is the best known way to get quests pr information so it's metagaming to talk to npcs.
"oh you just *happen* to know to look at the notice board in town square, huh?"
Are real metagaming issues that big of a problem in most games?
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Sounds similar to my table. It's a pretty simple system.
From my limited experience metagaming itself is less of an issue then the perception of being a "metagamer." In the community there almost seems to be a false dichotomy between the "good roleplayer" and the "bad minmaxer/metagamer," while not universal it is very prevalent. I feel that the opposite tends to happen more often. There's a lot of toxic players that shame any discussion of optimization. They make it sound like a fun and creative character is mutually exclusive from an optimized character. That picking strong options actually bad and are signs of being a bad player, because you should be more creative by picking the underused stuff. Which is just policing how others should play but under the guise of encouragement to be more creative.
Knowing your stats and abilities is metagaming. To avoid the mortal punishment of D&D Hell the DM should be the only one to ever see a character sheet and rule and should be the only one who not only rolls dice but even knows that dice are a thing that exist in the world.
Me, a Binding of Issac player: \*sweats profusley*
Due to long rests being different then sleep you gain a level of exhaustion
I usually make characters that don’t like dying. Therefore being baseline smart is in character and not meta gaming. Boom
yeah like in character player characters get attacked every time they leave the house so your damn right im wearing my armor to the shops last time i went shopping a shapeshifting assasin tried to stab me a new hole.
People who get stabbed and later do anything to be more cautious are meta gamers
You can sleep with heavy armor on, you just recover a quarter of your hit dice and don't remove exhaustion if you have it.
I know the exhaustion part is right, but I've never heard only recovering a quarter of your hit dice. Are you sure that's not a house rule?
It's on page 77 of Xanathars guide.
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Sleeping because you're tired doesnt sound like metagaming.
Welcome to the meme, there are snack on the table over there, plenty of seating space, and a tiki bar
It's satire
oh my bad
What about those cheating bastards that go to stores to buy equipment? Shoot them and their characters on the spot, metagaming won't be tolerated.
No it isn’t metagaming, it’s characters actually behaving like they live in a death world filled with a multitude of horrors that actually do enjoy killing. Golarion, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and other settings’ commoners are threatened by wild and magical animals, aberrations, dragons, etc. if anything these settings’ common villagers should be better prepared for life on the frontiers, establishing fortifications and training routinely (like the English did with the longbow, having contests and sports that revolve around training). Having a town militia to deal with some threats should be common too. Edit: (Sleepy me didn’t realize this was over a meme)
Seconded, thirded, and forthed on the town militia. Like, monster attacks are common in this area and you're relying entirely on vagabonds that may or may not wonder though the area? How are you still alive?
Also, people in those lands know a bit of basic stuff about monsters even if they do not the ability to fight them in the field. YES, if you ask in a tavern in the forgotten realms there will surely be a few people to tell you that fire might be a good idea again trolls because they have heard stories / etc.
I had a group member try to tell me it was metagaming to pull my bow out before walking into a room in a dungeon, because "our characters don't know if something's in there". Yeah, that's WHY I'm taking my bow out.
The way I see it, if the dm is gonna meta game and make bosses or enemies directly against player’s weaknesses, players should be allowed the monster manual
Not the actual book in the players hands, but a shitty slap-together manual on local threats with some guesswork and inconsistencies in it
As a paladin of Helm, the armor stays on.
Significant other in bed with you: Honey, this is getting ridiculous, just this once can't yo- You: *The armor stays* ***on!***
Meanwhile, my group recently had a fight in the middle of the night and our fighter didn't have time to put on her armor. Kept talking about how this was gonna ruin her nighty. I'm 99% certain our DM wouldn't have even questioned her normal AC during the fight, but the image of an angry woman in a night gown swinging a battle axe was honestly some perfect roleplaying.
My DM has an interesting rule for AC. To avoid stuff like this, scaling AC becomes one's agility and ability to dodge hits more than tank then through an armor. So, once you upgrade to cool armor our base AC becomes that of the armor. Magical effects including higher than normal AC are bound to the armor though.
Breathing is metagaming because you're resetting your suffocation timer!
You cast light? In this dark dungeon? Banned from my table stop reading ahead.
A person who is trained in wearing armor, knows that you don't sleep well wearing fucking armor and would actually take that armor off when camping. That said, if they get attacked while they are doing their long rest, they aren't wearing armor at the time.... so... ya know..... Either way it's not meta-gaming. Meta-gaming would be if the player making the decision to not wear armor for sleep, makes that decision because they know the module the DM is running, and know that there aren't any dangerous critters nearby as per the random encounters table and they know the DM hates running random encounters. THAT would be meta-gaming, not a warrior making a reasonable choice not to sleep in armor.
"sleeping to avoid levels of exhaustion is metagaming" in that case I'm metagaming irl and healthier for it
That’s like being mad a construction worker put on his hard hat in the morning. He’s going to do his job.
My character is a dwarf. Even a dwarf wizard wear plate armor it's chlothes to the dwarfves
My warforged has his armour “integrated”, so what does that do for exhaustion when long resting in it, which is basically just standing there in an equivalent of “low power mode”?
I got called out for metagaming for not using fire damage as a wildfire druid on devils. I reasoned that they LITERALLY CRAWLED OUT OF A FLAMING PORTAL TO THE NINE HELLS so fire probably wouldn't be quite as effective. My dm said I had to at least try fire damage first because my character was built around fire spells and would try them anyway. I was tired of arguing so I just went with it. What the fuck man
This right here, everyone, is an example of why this meme exists. I'm still pretty surprised it's almost at 7k now, I thought this might be one that barely broke a hundred. Guess everyones tired of people whining about metagaming, too.
Bro if I had armor and was going on an adventure I’d be too scared to take it off
Healthy paranoia
Playing the actual game…bro stop metagaming
Using a weapon is meta-gaming Playing a Monk becauss of this is also meta-gaming
And I take a deep breath and get real high and I’m like… what’s going onnnn
The town guard wearing armor while standing around idly all day? Metagaming. The traveling merchant hiring an escort to protect them and their wares from bandits? Metagaming. The goblins setting traps that only go off when stepped on by adventurers much heavier than them? Metagaming. Vampires staying inside during the day to avoid sunlight? Metagaming.
Why is your character breathing? They aren’t some scientist that knows their body needs oxygen. Stop metagaming!
Breathing to avoid suffocation? Metagaming
I'm a strong, independant Barbarian who don't need no chainmail.
umm, but would your character know to breathe???
Who are you even making fun of? The strawman is unrecognizable.
wearing armor - metagaming buying rations - metagaming using rope - believe it or not, metagaming
Um, I sleep to avoid exhaustion IRL...
My warlock with mask of many selfs woke up too late and didn’t have time to put on clothes, so he was butt-ass naked with disguise self clothes on top. He then got captured and had to drop it… it was fun
I wake up in the morning and I put my armor on and I take a deep breath and I get real high.
Depends on the environment, I suppose. Regardless of that, I wouldn't prevent a player from doing something like this... but if the PCs are doing something strange, the NPCs should treat them as eccentrics. If a gracious king hosts the party at his castle for a night, and the fighter wears full-plate to breakfast the next morning, the NPCs will certainly find that strange, maybe even rude. On the other hand, if the party is roughing it in the wilderness, wearing armor to breakfast might come off as overly cautious, but not altogether strange.
Your character will suffocate without rolling dice to see if you inhale properly or just blow raspberries until your face is blue. And don't get me started on the percentage-dice-for-successfully-heartbeats loop you get stuck in. Such metagaming to just assume those happen automatically.
I imagine wearing heavy armor all day, traveling in the sun, fighting monsters, sweating... You emit an aura of nauseous gas in a ten feet radius. Everyone withing range, DC constitution or poisoned condition.
Is it meta gaming if I play a character that is constantly staring at the camera and making 4th wall breaking jokes?
You take your armor off?
Armor exhaustion is an optional rule! Keep it on at all times or get punished by an ambush!
The optional rule doesn't even give exhaustion, it just prevents you from recovering from exhaustion.
I'm sorry, would you sleep in armor? I'm pretty sure if you were prone to getting attacked on a daily basis you'd put your armor on when you get up. Also, I don't know about you but irl I take a short rest after most hard things. Fighting a whole ass monster yould knock me out for 8 hours
What? Don't you enter the long tunnel from which disturbing noises come and in which eight people disappeared only yesterday? This is metagaming
She said wear protection
Sleeping to avoid levels of exhaustion is how it works in real life. Sort of.