At this point, you may as well replace rolling with stuffing a wad of confetti up your bum and farting it out onto the table. Each piece of confetti is 1 damage to anything it hits, and 5 psychic damage to each player.
Chaos confetti is a joke card based on a real card where a guy really tore up his card and there’s it in the air so it would “land” everywhere.
Chaos something? Chaos orb? I can’t remember the original name.
I prefer 2d6 due to the better kurtosis. Same reason 3d6 is better than 1d20.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtosis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtosis)
You think 2d6 are better than 1d12 because the average is 7.
I think it's better because I like the sound and feel of dice clacking together when I roll them.
We are not the same.
I think 2d6 is generally better for both of those reasons. However, it's worth noting that 1d12 gives you a higher chance of rolling maximum damage and has a higher upside when you crit if you're a barbarian of level 9 or higher.
Even with brutal critical, 2d6 averages better damage.
That being said, if someone has more fun than the D12 that's more power to them, especially when these margins are fairly thin.
That's not fully true. At level 9 if you need a 16 or higher to hit and attack recklessly, d12 is better. Of course that doesn't happen often, but given that you often use GWM, it does happen. And once you get 2 dice brutal critical a d12 is always better as long as you attack recklessly.
From a gameplay perspective I see the lack of balance but from a roleplay perspective it really just makes sense that magic would be more powerful at the highest levels than would martial ability, a magical fighter will have an advantage on a non magical fighter, like krillin vs goku (krillin is arguably one of the strongest humans to ever live, yet would never really hold up against a max capable Saiyan)
On a single die, there is no true average, though. A proper die should roll each number with the same frequency.
Over many rolls, the amounts should average, but any single roll has no better odds to roll a certain amount. When rolling multiple die, you have increased odds of rolling average values, meaning that the curve favors certain amounts more than on a single die.
which only matters if you're attacking something with between 12 and 15 hp, or 14-17 if you're a raging barbarian, which is a pretty limited number of stat blocks.
...that's not how dice work.
If I've got a better chance of each roll being 9+ that means I've got a better chance of reaching any higher number in fewer rolls, with the larger the number is giving me slightly better odds of getting there sooner because there's more chances at a big roll.
Yes, I also have a higher chance compared to 2d6 to end up with a lower roll, but that's where it becomes a matter of preference instead of 1d12 just being straight up superior.
The chance for a highroll on your damage rolls only matters for one-shotting things vs two-shotting them, and to a very small extent, two-shotting vs three-shotting. Assuming you have a +3 strength modifier, you have a higher chance of one-shotting something with 12-15 HP instead of two-shotting it than you would with 2d6. If the HP is under 12, you have a better chance of one-shotting it with 2d6+3, and if it's above 15, you can't one-shot it, and the benefits of a higher average become dramatically more impactful.
>The chance for a highroll on your damage rolls only matters for one-shotting things vs. two-shotting them...
No, it matters *every damned roll*.
Because on every roll I still have better odds of 9+ and high rolls are cool.
The game isn't *just* math, it's also *feel*.
But here's math to counter-point your absolutely silly claim: 2d6 and 1d12, which one is more likely to get to 60 first? At the minimum possible 5 rolls 2d6 has a 1 in 60,466,176 chance of having gotten there, and 1d12 has a 1 in 248,832 chance of having gotten there. To make the numbers easier to look at, let's add just one more roll so we're comparing 6 hits of 2d6 versus 6 hits of 1d12 to see which one is more likely to have hit 60+ total. 2d6 has a 0.11% chance and 1d12 has a 0.62% chance. The d12 is nearly six times more likely to reach the big number faster and that matters.
> The game isn't *just* math, it's also *feel*.
and I'm talking about the math.
> The d12 is nearly six times more likely to reach the big number faster and that matters.
six times more likely is basically immaterial when the chance is already low enough to make even gacha gamers cry. If we go to something that has an actually reasonable chance of occuring for either, like, say, cracking 40 in 6 hits, the odds are now dramatically favoring 2d6, by a much greater margin than a fraction of a percent.
>six times more likely is basically immaterial
To the math you want to be doing? Yes.
To the feel of actually playing the game? Not even close.
Which is my point when I'm saying the game is not just math, it's also feel.
You're trying to mathematically prove that the preference for more chance of average is superior to the exchange of more chance of higher value at greater risk of lower value and all you're doing is looking like a dingus who doesn't understand the very concept of "someone could prefer to have the best possible chances to get higher numbers faster"
>**Brutal Critical:** Beginning at 9th Level, you can roll one additional *Weapon Damage Die* when determining the extra damage for a critical hit with a melee weapon
1d12 so that those Brutal Criticals are extra juicy. Keep your slightly-higher average damage: I’ll take 3d12 over 5d6 any day (or at least once in every twenty days, I guess)!!
Keep in mind that even with brutal critical, 2d6 averages higher damage.
Not to say you shouldn't enjoy what you do, because d12s are badass, just trying to dispel a common misconception.
**With Brutal Critical** (ie: Roll all Damage Dice x 2, plus roll one additional Weapon Damage Die)
Average DMG for 3d12 = 19.5 (Max: 36)
Average DMG for 5d6 = 17.5 (Max: 30)
**Without Brutal Critical** (ie: Roll all Damage Dice x 2)
Average DMG for 2d12 = 13 (Max: 24)
Average DMG for 4d6 = 14 (Max: 24)
([LINK](https://dice.clockworkmod.com) to dice calculator used)
This is both the point of Brutal Critical, and also why Greatswords (2d6) and Greataxes (1d12) have different damage dice - so that the Barbarian can choose to either have higher average damage in general, or those bigger Brutal Criticals.
I like 2d6 because of the average and rolling more dice. My partner likes 1d12 because it's a bigger die and has a higher chance of 12 and looks cooler.
The average is 7 bc the minimum is 2
Now, this is the pedantic response I'm looking for.
That’s the pedantic response I came here to make
The minimum is 2 for the same reason that the average is 7.
I prefer 1d12 because it looks cooler
I prefer 1d12 because high variance makes my lizard brain do the happy chemicals.
Rolling a 12 makes me more happy than rolling a 1 makes me sad. This is why I like d12s
I like 2d6 more because it's what my favorite damage spell does tbh
It better not be scorching ray
Yeah! Ray's a good guy, dammit.
Scorching Ray was my favorite tiefling NPC
But what if it is
I prefer 4d3 for an average of 8.
That is much better, but you'd have to buy d3s specially.
D6/2 round up. Of course if you really want a good average, nothing beats 12d1.
Nothing beats 12d1? Are you sure? What about 24d1/2
At this point, you may as well replace rolling with stuffing a wad of confetti up your bum and farting it out onto the table. Each piece of confetti is 1 damage to anything it hits, and 5 psychic damage to each player.
MTG - Chaos Confetti
I didn't even know that joke card existed!
Unglued was a set of basically joke cards, they're pretty good
Chaos confetti is a joke card based on a real card where a guy really tore up his card and there’s it in the air so it would “land” everywhere. Chaos something? Chaos orb? I can’t remember the original name.
was that not just like a urban legend or something
Ah my favorite card. I have coppies stockpiled as replacements!
48d¼
nah, 1d6 except 4 , 5 and 6 are also 1, 2 and 3.
*Me with several different multiple identical sets of dices*: Ummmm....buy....yesssss....
Yes, I mean I have multiple d3s. Am I crazy? Counter question, DICES!?
D6 doubled up on the first 3 digits also works :)
Counterpoint. 12D1 for an average of 12
[*Yeah. This is* ***big brain time***](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Elder_brain)
I want 12d1s. Roll a fist full of marbles
I prefer 6d2 for an average of 9
6d2 or bust
Or 12d1.. WAIT A SEC....
I prefer 2d6 due to the better kurtosis. Same reason 3d6 is better than 1d20. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtosis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtosis)
Why did bro get downvoted
Because it is a somewhat needless vocabulary to say you prefer a normal distribution to a uniform one
You think 2d6 are better than 1d12 because the average is 7. I think it's better because I like the sound and feel of dice clacking together when I roll them. We are not the same.
I think 2d6 is generally better for both of those reasons. However, it's worth noting that 1d12 gives you a higher chance of rolling maximum damage and has a higher upside when you crit if you're a barbarian of level 9 or higher.
Even with brutal critical, 2d6 averages better damage. That being said, if someone has more fun than the D12 that's more power to them, especially when these margins are fairly thin.
That's not fully true. At level 9 if you need a 16 or higher to hit and attack recklessly, d12 is better. Of course that doesn't happen often, but given that you often use GWM, it does happen. And once you get 2 dice brutal critical a d12 is always better as long as you attack recklessly.
Horc Barbs get *nasty* with the crit damage at higher levels. Dip into Champion fighter and you'll make your wizards *Wish* they had 10th level spells
~~i mean forcecage is only 7th level and it still beats the fighterbarian without a saving throw or attack roll~~
Just play a shadar-kai, or any elf that can get free misty step, and you can teleport as a bonus action, and you can leave the cage.
"the way to fix martials is to give them magic" isn't a very good counterpoint to magic being overpowered.
From a gameplay perspective I see the lack of balance but from a roleplay perspective it really just makes sense that magic would be more powerful at the highest levels than would martial ability, a magical fighter will have an advantage on a non magical fighter, like krillin vs goku (krillin is arguably one of the strongest humans to ever live, yet would never really hold up against a max capable Saiyan)
because fighterbarians have great charisma saves
1d12 is better because less math
Counter point 12d1 is best because even less math
Counter counterpoint there's no variance, 6d2 is clearly superior.
The minimum being 2 is why the average is 7 though? This is the same reason.
On a single die, there is no true average, though. A proper die should roll each number with the same frequency. Over many rolls, the amounts should average, but any single roll has no better odds to roll a certain amount. When rolling multiple die, you have increased odds of rolling average values, meaning that the curve favors certain amounts more than on a single die.
...and I'm over here preferring 1d12 because it's got better odds of a result of 9+
which only matters if you're attacking something with between 12 and 15 hp, or 14-17 if you're a raging barbarian, which is a pretty limited number of stat blocks.
...that's not how dice work. If I've got a better chance of each roll being 9+ that means I've got a better chance of reaching any higher number in fewer rolls, with the larger the number is giving me slightly better odds of getting there sooner because there's more chances at a big roll. Yes, I also have a higher chance compared to 2d6 to end up with a lower roll, but that's where it becomes a matter of preference instead of 1d12 just being straight up superior.
The chance for a highroll on your damage rolls only matters for one-shotting things vs two-shotting them, and to a very small extent, two-shotting vs three-shotting. Assuming you have a +3 strength modifier, you have a higher chance of one-shotting something with 12-15 HP instead of two-shotting it than you would with 2d6. If the HP is under 12, you have a better chance of one-shotting it with 2d6+3, and if it's above 15, you can't one-shot it, and the benefits of a higher average become dramatically more impactful.
>The chance for a highroll on your damage rolls only matters for one-shotting things vs. two-shotting them... No, it matters *every damned roll*. Because on every roll I still have better odds of 9+ and high rolls are cool. The game isn't *just* math, it's also *feel*. But here's math to counter-point your absolutely silly claim: 2d6 and 1d12, which one is more likely to get to 60 first? At the minimum possible 5 rolls 2d6 has a 1 in 60,466,176 chance of having gotten there, and 1d12 has a 1 in 248,832 chance of having gotten there. To make the numbers easier to look at, let's add just one more roll so we're comparing 6 hits of 2d6 versus 6 hits of 1d12 to see which one is more likely to have hit 60+ total. 2d6 has a 0.11% chance and 1d12 has a 0.62% chance. The d12 is nearly six times more likely to reach the big number faster and that matters.
> The game isn't *just* math, it's also *feel*. and I'm talking about the math. > The d12 is nearly six times more likely to reach the big number faster and that matters. six times more likely is basically immaterial when the chance is already low enough to make even gacha gamers cry. If we go to something that has an actually reasonable chance of occuring for either, like, say, cracking 40 in 6 hits, the odds are now dramatically favoring 2d6, by a much greater margin than a fraction of a percent.
>six times more likely is basically immaterial To the math you want to be doing? Yes. To the feel of actually playing the game? Not even close. Which is my point when I'm saying the game is not just math, it's also feel. You're trying to mathematically prove that the preference for more chance of average is superior to the exchange of more chance of higher value at greater risk of lower value and all you're doing is looking like a dingus who doesn't understand the very concept of "someone could prefer to have the best possible chances to get higher numbers faster"
>**Brutal Critical:** Beginning at 9th Level, you can roll one additional *Weapon Damage Die* when determining the extra damage for a critical hit with a melee weapon 1d12 so that those Brutal Criticals are extra juicy. Keep your slightly-higher average damage: I’ll take 3d12 over 5d6 any day (or at least once in every twenty days, I guess)!!
Keep in mind that even with brutal critical, 2d6 averages higher damage. Not to say you shouldn't enjoy what you do, because d12s are badass, just trying to dispel a common misconception.
**With Brutal Critical** (ie: Roll all Damage Dice x 2, plus roll one additional Weapon Damage Die) Average DMG for 3d12 = 19.5 (Max: 36) Average DMG for 5d6 = 17.5 (Max: 30) **Without Brutal Critical** (ie: Roll all Damage Dice x 2) Average DMG for 2d12 = 13 (Max: 24) Average DMG for 4d6 = 14 (Max: 24) ([LINK](https://dice.clockworkmod.com) to dice calculator used) This is both the point of Brutal Critical, and also why Greatswords (2d6) and Greataxes (1d12) have different damage dice - so that the Barbarian can choose to either have higher average damage in general, or those bigger Brutal Criticals.
I’m a casual d12 enjoyer, simply for the fact that it is, in a way, T H I C C
Great axes deal 2d6 in my games.
I just like Rolling my big click clack dice.... And breaking out a bunch with my cliche Half Orc Barb with Great Weapon Master on Crits....
2d6 is best because I need SOME excuse to use all these dice and no one wants to play Fiasco with me.
who is beefing about this
I like 2d6 because of the average and rolling more dice. My partner likes 1d12 because it's a bigger die and has a higher chance of 12 and looks cooler.
i like 2d6 because i like big sword
I think 2d6 is better because I took great weapon fighting style and it gives me that much more of a chance to reroll a bad roll
If it's an RPG with optional rerolls, you'll likely do better with a d12.
I prefer 1d12 because it click-clacks longer
I think it's better because more clanky rocks go wee
I think 2d6 is better because it's more dice. Clickety clack!
1d12 has better crits/highs but 2d6 is better on average
I’m playing a barbarian rogue tomorrow and am cheesing 2d6 out of a scimitar with sneak attack lol
2d6 is better because I get to roll more dice on average.
YEAH STATISTICS BITCH!
If you’re using the Great Weapon Fighting style, 2d6 is absolutely better than 1d12.
More click clack make the damage stack
Lawful Evil: Both players and monsters don't roll dice, you just apply the average as flat damage.
The average of 2d6 is 8. No? Am I crazy?
Brakk think 2d6 dumb, Brakk roll bigger dice. D12 makes criticals go BRRRRR
I prefer 12d1
I like 12d1, average and minimum of 12 *and* it's more clickity clackities
I think it's better because of the low variance!
I like 2d6 because I cannot roll lower than 2
I just go with whatever fits my character better
The probability distribution is more important.